Large Normal 224 | Endgame

[Reundo]

Furst.

VOTE: Tea

[Reundo]

Not first to post, though!

[Reundo]

That Layla wagon is yuck. Really can't see how anyone could find anything remotely AI in Layla's vote or her responses. Don't really get why if Norwegian was so sure only scum would make the RVS vote Layla made that she'd just drop it after a single conversation with Layla, only to pick it up again right when Gamma voted there. Reads pretty cowardly. Luca is the most towny out of his wagon for his probing of Tea since those were the same questions I was thinking about asking, though it's not that strong.

I like my vote on Tea atm. It's very weird how the first post of theirs page 3 was them criticizing those on the Norwegian wagon yet at the end of the page they take almost a completely opposite stance by defending the wagon started by him/Gamma. #74 especially implies they're scum-reading Norwegian now (why would he breath a "sigh of relief" at the Layla wagon as town?) yet they still hasn't voted anyone, which combined with their inconsistent posts makes it seem like they're afraid of taking a definite stance.

[Reundo]

Really not sure why you didn't double down on your RVS vote and just say "Hey, it's RVS"

Furthermore, I don't really see how Layla didn't do this? I mean she certainly didn't back down and say "nvm, guess my RVS vote was bad after all" and was pretty insistent on sticking by it, so this post also confuses me.

[Reundo]

The problem is your explanation explains nothing regarding the reason you were poked about it. How does deciding your RVS pre-game affect your given logic?

Even if you do that, there’s the chance you may change it. And having to explain away an exclusion like that looks scummy.

Also I legitimately can't understand either of these posts Gamma's made, or why he's so insistent on questioning Layla on her RVS vote to this extent in the first place. Just reads like a bunch of gibberish to me.

[Reundo]

Before I post my reads I have a question because it's not clear: are we dealing with more than one Scum faction? Because the way I read it in the OP it feels like there being two Scum factions is definitely possible.

2. The following is public knowledge: the setup consists of a Town faction versus a single groupscum faction, where "groupscum" is defined as having more than one player. It is not public knowledge whether other alignments exist in the game.

Pretty sure it's only one scum faction given the wording. Scum being defined as having "more than one player" is especially noteworthy, and it makes me think there might be a serial killer. Or maybe just two scum teams with one of them having only one member, but that's functionally the same unless they have any extra modifiers or something.

[Reundo]

town
{Chemist Billy}
{Layla GE}
---
{Luca Reundo}
{Vork Norwegian}
scum

there's a pretty big difference between the tiers separated by the line btw.

All of your TRs are players who've either defended you or aren't critical of you (except for maybe Billy for a bit), and all your SRs are players who were/are voting you or were critical of you, which reads pretty safe / risk-averse to me. Luca especially is a bit jarring, because while I don't have a strong TR on him I don't see anything of his that's especially scummy either. Similarly, I haven't seen anything especially towny from Chemist either, so some elaboration on those reads would be nice because I can't really see where you're coming from rn.

Also, why are you still not voting anyone?

[Reundo]

town
{Chemist Billy}
{Layla GE}
---
{Luca Reundo}
{Vork Norwegian}
scum

there's a pretty big difference between the tiers separated by the line btw.

All of your TRs are players who've either defended you or aren't critical of you (except for maybe Billy for a bit), and all your SRs are players who were/are voting you or were critical of you, which reads pretty safe / risk-averse to me. Luca especially is a bit jarring, because while I don't have a strong TR on him I don't see anything of his that's especially scummy either. Similarly, I haven't seen anything especially towny from Chemist either, so some elaboration on those reads would be nice because I can't really see where you're coming from rn.

Also, why are you still not voting anyone?

Because nobody has done anything warranting a vote?

What do you consider vote worthy, exactly? You're not exactly going to catch a scum slip most of the time on D1, and if everyone had the same attitude as you we wouldn't get anywhere. And +1 to Gamma's question as well.

Also, there were two parts to my post and you completely ignored the first half. Could you explain your Luca and Chemist reads please, because I can't understand those especially.

[Reundo]

If you interact with someone you scumread... it kind of has a lot more weight if I haven't voted/might vote them

Also, could you rephrase this / expand on this a bit, because I'm not quite sure what you're saying here.

[Reundo]

I don't see how him asking questions about your posts == a bad progression? Luca's ISO is a bit worse than I remembered but it's fairly ordinary in this game at least. "Empty or easy" questions describes a lot of ISOs here, and throwing him in your scum reads but not say splitfarvle/davesaz/dunn seems a bit random.

Also, I hope you ignoring like half the posts directed at you doesn't become a habit because it's starting to get annoying. What is your aversion towards voting people, exactly? I don't see a good reason to keep it holstered at this stage, or how it'll affect your "interactions with your scumreads" or whatever.

[Reundo]

Because those slots havent made much an impression on me?

And it's his effort to present himself otherwise; a lot of other ISOs are plainly idontgiveafuck.

What I was trying to get out was why Luca's slot made an impression on you but those slots didn't. I don't really see Luca as that showboaty but eh I can kind of see how he could give off that impression.

And when those posts all ask the same question about not voting that I answered... and like the answer boils down to playstyle differences, yeah I think it's starting to get annoying you ask the same question over and over when an answer is either pointless or already given.

What reasons are there to not vote?

You didn't answer this question though, and I wouldn't consider it "pointless". Like if it is just play style differences then just elaborate on why you play the way you do so you could clear that up instead of ignoring half of everything directed towards you, because it comes off as pretty anti-town.

VOTE: reundo

OK, so what have I done that's "warranted a vote", as you put it?

[Reundo]

I wanted to see if you would double down or actually have a dialogue

Double down on what?

[Reundo]

I've been steadily reading through the game but haven't had a whole lot of time or motivation to post, but I'm feeling more in the swing of things now. I agree with most of the points made against Wake in Luca's/Zote's ISO dives, essentially not much more than surface reads and observations. His defense in #433 basically deflects every question/inquiry towards him with a blanket "I suck at D1 so either deal with it or lynch me," which is really pitiful and counter productive. Why post anything at all if you're not even going to defend or explain yourself? You can't claim you hate D1 while at the same time participating in a decent chunk of it and refusing to address a single point made against your posts. Even if you do suck at D1 at least try to clear up why you made the posts you did, other then "I can't handle the speculation." I'm good with this wagon.

VOTE: Wake88

Also liked Luca's recent post as well, he sums it up pretty nice. Leaning town on him.

[Reundo]

Tea, why are you voting Norwegian over Wake? Like, could you explain the scum motivation behind Norwegian's play overall, because I don't really see it.

[Reundo]

Mmm, I'm not really convinced by the "meta" part of your case. Like, that's only 3 games, I don't think that's enough for an accurate meta comparison. Plus it seems like Open 765 was one of his first games on-site, so I don't know how representative it is of his current play.

As far as the second post goes, I don't really see what you're getting at. Like I guess I can technically see it as setting people up but that's not the first conclusion I'd come to when reading those posts and it seems like a bit of a stretch, and to me it looks more like ordinary scum-hunting / engagement, so I don't see how it's setting people up exclusively. Like I could easily see those posts coming from town, so I don't see how it's particularly scum-indicative. Also don't really get the distinction between "keeping his options open" and "keeping his mind open"?

Was gonna post more tonight but it's late now, so I'll get to this more tomorrow hopefully.

[Reundo]

VOTE: Vorkuta

I feel like he’s flying under the radar a bit and I don’t like where his vote currently is.

Agree with this but I feel Wake/Tea are better lynches today. I read Vortuka more as null / null-scum.

TRs on Luca and Norwegian, town leans on Zote/Almost/Billy.

[Reundo]

My reads right now.

Townlean
- Chemist1422
- Billy Pilgrim
- Vorkuta
- Wake88
- Flavor Leaf (Changed my read on him over time)

Could you please clarify why you're Townreading me?

This would be kind of towny if the question wasn't already answered literally on the same page. Seems like a really lousy prod dodge.

[Reundo]

Also @Flavor Leaf why aren't you voting anyone?

[Reundo]

Sorry for the inactivity. My schedule's been very packed recently and I haven't found much time to post.

Agree with the wagon on PM. That waffling around the Tea wagon that Chemist mentioned is pretty pingy (I've read "something worth mentioning" three times in PM's second post). I've also noticed he's done a similar thing with Norwegian where he says he's concerned by Norwegian's "aggressive play" but never actually gives a read on him, later saying he'd need a "night phase to go through everything said", and it kind of reads like PM was just hoping someone would pick it up and go after Norwegian w/o having to give an actual stance himself so he could back down from if later if need be. His latest post is also pretty bad, especially given how it was only like 3 hours after Fish voted so it's likely scum couldn't have even seen it, so it felt like he was jumping the gun there.

VOTE: PMysterious

Would still be fine with a Wake lynch as well. Also wary of splitfarvle/davesaz as well but I don't feel strong enough about it to push on them rn. Tea's recent posting has made me feel better about the slot but not enough to TR him. Also starting to TR Dunn a bit.

[Reundo]

I think PM is probably town

I mean I don't really see any content from the slot as of rn, and I see a lot for other slots so ig

Is PM "probably town" because of the content of other slots or...

[Reundo]

VOTE: splitfarvle

Been on the fence about Wake, but I'll wait for him to produce some more content. I really don't see much scum equity in Luca. The only questionable thing of his imo was his Vortuka vote, but I saw that more as bad than scummy, especially the timing of it.

[Reundo]

How was my Vorkuta vote bad? Pressuring lurkers/low content slots is rarely a bad thing imo.

I meant to say Norwegian in my last post, oops. Mostly because I thought he was pretty town at that point and your meta points weren't very convincing. Your Vorkuta vote wasn't that bad imo, though it might've been more productive to switch back to Wake at that point considering the Vorkuta wagon wasn't going anywhere and it didn't seem like you scum-read Vorkuta that much more than Wake at the time anyhow.

[Reundo]

possible he didnt have daychat so he outed his results at eod too.

consider this to be the main reason to talk about roles.

He outed me as a VT, then went on to cover it up with the other talk.

Pisskop’s also Vanilla.

@Norwegian, pisskop is actually fish monger.

[Reundo]

Was just about to post about Dolly. Really don't like her interaction with Dunnstral, primarily how she dances around having to actually explain her reads. The only notable things she's done iirc was a "reads list" (which was not much more than a jumble of numbers, really) and reaction test Wake with a fake guilty, things she could easily do as scum. Also notable with regards to her "reads list" is that she ranked posts on whether she liked/disliked them instead of judging them as towny/scumy, which might just be playstyle/semantics but also suggests she's not looking at posts in terms of their actual scum equity. Also doesn't help that she replaced into Vorkuta who also generally did nothing but lol-post.

P-Edit: Yeah, I'm on board with this.

VOTE: Dolly Parton

[Reundo]

Who is TRing Dunn and why. Please give good answers as I feel I've got scum in my headlights here.

What even is your scum case on Dunn other than "lurking", which like isn't even specific to Dunn.

[Reundo]

and i think that’s scummy because town normally have a clearer preference in who they want

Yeah, because town has so much information at the start of the game. Having to worry about potentially targeting town. This is just absolute crap and i can't believe you're spouting this like it's somehow logical.

It is in fact scum that play the game with a "clear preference of who they want" because they already know who their teammates are, so they are happy to keep pushing a town slot if they see it as a viable mislynch.

Scum are normally all good on lynching town

Good scum will normally have a game plan and want to lynch in a certain order to win, while adjusting based on flips, but will basically be down to vote anyone who isn’t a partner

What did you make of Norwegian's vote on Flavor early on in D1, then?

[Reundo]

That’s not sorting, that’s just posting reads?

What the hell even is sorting then?

Trying to find out what other people’s alignments are through probing and asking questions

Also yeah, I don't see how Norwegian hasn't been doing this fairly consistently?

[Reundo]

VOTE: Wake88

Up for lynching Dolly today as well.

[Reundo]

Interesting

Dolly or Menalque first they both defended A50

I mean you've also defended Almost so by your logic shouldn't we lynch you as well?

[Reundo]

*Sigh*

This is exactly what I was talking about.

Reads aren't really a part of how I play as Town. Sometimes I give reads, but because it's primarily based on gut reads have little value. It's the interactions where I feel things can be more easily parsed.

But like basically the only interactions you've had are with players who've either called you out directly or scum-read you, so even by your own standards you don't seem very proactive in scum-hunting.

[Reundo]

Votecount 1.21 - FINAL

PMysterious

(10): NorwegianboyEE, Dunnstral, Fish Monger, Zote the Mighty, Hectic, Chemist1422, Reundo, davesaz, Wake88, Flavor Leaf

(LYNCH)

Wake88

(2): Gamma Emerald, Luca Blight

splitfarvle

(1): Tea

Dunnstral

(1): Vorkuta

Hectic

(1): Almost50

davesaz

(1): splitfarvle

Not Voting

(2): Billy Pilgrim, PMysterious

With 18 alive, it takes 10 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2019-11-26 17:00:00)

Votecount 2.02 - FINAL

Flavor Leaf

(8): Wake88, Hectic, davesaz, Dolly Parton, Dunnstral, NorwegianboyEE, Almost50, Chemist1422

(LYNCH)

Not Voting

(7): Flavor Leaf, splitfarvle, Fish Monger, Reundo, Tea, Gamma Emerald, Luca Blight

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2019-12-07 09:15:00)

Votecount 3.12 - FINAL

NorwegianboyEE

(7): pisskop, Menalque, Hectic, Gamma Emerald, Tea, NorwegianboyEE, davesaz

(Lynch)

Dolly Parton

(2): Dunnstral, Reundo

Luca Blight

(2): Wake88, Almost50

Almost50

(1): Luca Blight

Dunnstral

(1): Dolly Parton

Not Voting

(0):

None.

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2019-12-10 09:30:00)

Here are the 3 lynch VCs. Does anything stick out to anyone other that what I mentioned above?

That the only meaningful thing your slot's done is tunnel on Dunn?

[Reundo]

3 or 4 scum with 18 players?

Do you think it's possible the game could be multiball?

Also jfc you literally already asked this in your third post this game. Read the rules.

[Reundo]

Yes, I'm aware I haven't done a whole lot this game, and that's my own fault. But like at least I try to explain my thought process and have answered questions directed towards me. Meanwhile you still refuse to explain why reads suddenly flipped regarding Wake/Luca and why Wake's reaction to your fake guilty / Luca's wagon dissolving respectively made either of them town.

[Reundo]

*Townread on Menalque for asking pointed questions despite his atrocious vote.

Menalque, Hectic, Reundo, and Dolly all were very quick to jump on the wagon, for NO reason.

Luca initiated the wagon. Tea held back.

Scum is definitely on my wagon. I don't know if it's Luca because he's obstinate and narrow-minded and has been tunneling on me all game.

But the other 4? Those I worry about the most.

??? What changed your mind on Mena between those 20 posts, Wake?

[Reundo]

And as to you question as to why I jumped in on your wagon. It felt right. I want to see if/how it builds and if it gets close to a lynch then I will re-revaluate my stance. Right now it's just an info-getting-vote, if you will.

What happened to your "town clear" on Wake?

Also, you were the fourth vote on the wagon, which proves the wagon was already built up by that point (and brings him pretty close to a lynch by itself), so voting him to see "if/how it builds" doesn't make any sense when it was already half-way through.

[Reundo]

Spoiler:

^Do you think Luca is town, and that A50 was not bussing?

I wasn't paying enough attention to A50.

Luca's been pushing me all game and trying to force me to play the game as he would play the game, which does nothing but piss me the Hell off. He could be Town, or he could be Scum and is trying very hard to try and mislynch me because he thinks I'm an easy target.

*Townread on Menalque for asking pointed questions despite his atrocious vote.

Menalque, Hectic, Reundo, and Dolly all were very quick to jump on the wagon, for NO reason.

Luca initiated the wagon. Tea held back.

Scum is definitely on my wagon. I don't know if it's Luca because he's obstinate and narrow-minded and has been tunneling on me all game.

But the other 4? Those I worry about the most.

1.04 - Tea (3): Reundo, Saladman27, Flavor Leaf
1.06 - Tea (6): Reundo, Saladman27, Flavor Leaf, Billy Pilgrim, Zote the Mighty, NorwegianboyEE
1.07 - Tea (7): Reundo, Saladman27, Flavor Leaf, Billy Pilgrim, Zote the Mighty, NorwegianboyEE, Vorkuta
1.08 - Tea (5): Reundo, Saladman27, Flavor Leaf, Zote the Mighty, Vorkuta
1.09 - Tea (4): Reundo, Saladman27, Flavor Leaf, Vorkuta
1.10 - Tea (4): Reundo, Saladman27, Flavor Leaf, Vorkuta

(Both hop off Tea)

1.11 - Not Voting (4): Zote the Mighty, Flavor Leaf, Almost50, PMysterious
1.12 - Not Voting (3): Flavor Leaf, Almost50, PMysterious
1.13 - Not Voting (2): Almost50, Flavor Leaf
1.14 - Tea (2): Gamma Emerald, Almost50 (Flavor Leaf Not Voting)
1.15 - Tea (3): Gamma Emerald, Almost50, NorwegianboyEE (Flavor Leaf Not Voting)
1.16 - Not Voting (3): Billy Pilgrim, Almost50, Flavor Leaf
1.17 - Not Voting (5): Billy Pilgrim, Almost50, PMysterious, Hectic, Flavor Leaf
1.18 - Hectic (1): Almost50 (Flavor Leaf Not Voting)
1.19 - Hectic (1): Almost50 (Flavor Leaf Not Voting)
1.20 - Hectic (1): Almost50 (Flavor Leaf Not Voting)

2.02 - Flavor Leaf (8): Wake88, Hectic, davesaz, Dolly Parton, Dunnstral, NorwegianboyEE, Almost50, Chemist1422 (LYNCH)

3.03 - Luca Blight (5): splitfarvle, NorwegianboyEE, Wake88, Almost50, Dolly Parton


What can we extrapolate from this?

They were both on Tea for most of Day 1, but did they really commit or was it for show?

I'm almost certain there was at least one other Scum besides A50 on the FL wagon.

hmmmm

4

I feel like you and davesaz should be joining in the game more Day 4.

VOTE: Wake88

Up for lynching Dolly today as well.

VOTE: Wake

Turns out even Norwee is a self-voter. My faith in MS has been shattered.

Without reasoning these also seem opportunistic.

The following is public knowledge: the setup consists of a Town faction versus a single groupscum faction, where "groupscum" is defined as having more than one player. It is not public knowledge whether other alignments exist in the game.

That last sentence REALLY bothers me, because it says it's not public knowledge whether OTHER alignments exist in the game. It doesn't specifically say there's only Town and one Scum faction and that's it. If that's what the mod wanted he would have made that very clear. This to me means that PUBLICLY we have no knowledge on there being other alignments in this game. This means there COULD be another Mafia team OR, I think, a Serial Killer. Like 3-4 Mafia and an SK.

Obviously this could conflict with your Vig claim.

I really would like our mod to clarify this once and for all.

Chennis I can take the time and pet them like a barking Labrador and calm them down.

Menalque’s all fine and dandy until I start to pet him

What the fick
Also VOTE: wake

I don't want to lynch wake. I'm biased and I confess to it. I want to play with him some, so maybe let him be till D2. I don't have a solid read on him though, so I'm not going to fight against the wagon too hard, but I certainly am not going to vote him unless someone brings up some solid evidence why he should be the lynch today.

+1

He also always had a tendency to take heat really easily, so even if that weren’t the case, I still have reason to not want that wagon today.

Just noticed this post. Both Almost50 and Flavor Leaf wanted me to stay in the game and defended me, while Gamma, who we now know is Town, opted to vote for me.

So this yells me the Scum team, at that point, intended to leave me alive. I don't think FL really explained why he wanted to keep me around. What I'm doing is looking at those posts around that time period to see if anyone else behaved like A50 and FL. Davesav didn't really get to that point in 806, but it felt like he was shifting a bit his focus from me to someone else.

If you guys can remember anyone else besides A50 or FL that were defending me like they were, that could likely be one of the Scum members. Based on what those two were doing early on they probably thought I'd be valuable to them late-game.

Got some time now.
I don't believe town!Wake honestly believes more scum other than Almo and Leaf were keeping him alive for some unknown secret reason, and there might be even

more

members of the scumteam who were doing the same. Why in the world would 3+ scum defend Wake like he's valuable to them?
Also, town!Gamma defending Wake has nothing to do with the other scum defending him.

Either Wake is scum who was defended by his scum buddies, or he's town and scum were off his wagon to look better and since no other scum were in danger of being lynched on counterwagons. Leaning towards the former.

VOTE: Wake

If you actually think about it, it makes sense.

They could very well have wanted me to survive until late game because they think I'd be easy to mislynch late game. Haven't you ever seen Scum do this in other games where they let a sub-optimal Townie survive later in the game while getting rid of the stronger ones earlier?

If you noticed, both those two in a very short amount of posts agreed that they wanted me to be left over. If presumably half of the Scumteam was intent on that, is it unsafe to think the other unknown members wouldn't?

As Town you should be able to see why they might want me to be around late-game. It's not like I'm that active or am a strong Town-force to them. Your reaction is overblown. I do not like that.

And Gamma wasn't defending me in that quote either, Sir. That means that point is moot. Gamma voted for me while the two Scum defended me.

Looking at what the two Scumflips were doing by defending me, I have good reason to suspect that anyone else alive who was defending me just might be a good place to look at.

I want to hear your response to this Hectic before proceeding.

^This is every post in Wake's ISO this day phase that could possibly be construed as game solving (the other half is either him defending himself or casting doubt on Luca as the vig, which is completely unnecessary at this point btw -- there were a couple of questions he asked in his ISO too which I'll address a bit later). Notice how he casts shade on a lot of slots yet never states who he thinks is most likely to be scum or any of his actual scum reads. Like, take the fourth post quoted for example -- he says "I'm almost certain there was at least one other scum on A50" yet never gives any indication of who he thinks that scum actually is, and that whole post just reads like busy work made to look like he's actually scum-hunting without ever having to draw any meaningful conclusions himself. He hasn't even

voted

anyone this entire read despite suspecting like half the player list. In fact, the only indication of any sort of concrete read that isn't a vague "scum could be in this group" or "I'm worried about these players" is #1797 when he townreads Mena, which he seemingly takes back 20 posts later in #1817 when he puts him in the pool of players he's "worried" about (which he ignored when I asked him about it). They're the second/third posts in the spoiler, btw.

And not giving many reads or even voting would be one thing if he actually interacted with players much, which he claims is how he scum reads, yet if you read through the rest of his ISO this day most of his interactions are him defending himself in response to other players (mainly Luca and briefly Dunn in the begginning). In fact, the only times I saw where he actually went out to initiate conversation with him completely unprompted was asking Dolly why she voted him (which actually isn't that unprompted since it still involves him), asking Luca if he townread Tea (which is very easy to find out with a quick ISO search) and a few comments about whether the setup is multi-ball (it's not, and this has been talked about already) and casting doubt on Luca as the vig (which I mean if he wasn't he's completely screwed over anyone, and there's no way he's being lynched this day phase regardless), so even in this light he hasn't been doing much scum-hunting at all (which is another point I brought up of him earlier that he also completely brushed aside).

I mean sure his activity has gone up quite a bit since D1 but overall he hasn't done much scum-hunting at all. Pretty consistently, his ISO mostly compromises of him defending himself or just casting shade on other slots (most of which directly involve either scum-reading or voting him). Neither of these are that bad on their own, but when coupled with his consistent lack of reads or interactions that don't directly involve him in some way it reads like he's much more concerned about not getting lynched than doing actually scum-hunting. And again, considering he's scum-reading like half of the playerlist, you'd think he'd at least throw his vote on

someone

by now, but he doesn't even seem motivated enough to do that, which demonstrates his reluctance to make any strong/definite stances.

[Reundo]

I don't think davesaz looks great here either. The last couple of pages give me a similar impression to Wake as in there's a bit of analysis in there (mostly surrounding wagons) yet not a lot of definite conclusions regarding who his main scum-reads are. He did a bit of game-solving during D1 but that's dropped off considerably, and I don't think he's given many if any reads at all past his big reads-list (which wasn't really all that impressive either). Also don't really see a reason for him to be holstering his vote either.

[Reundo]

And as to you question as to why I jumped in on your wagon. It felt right. I want to see if/how it builds and if it gets close to a lynch then I will re-revaluate my stance. Right now it's just an info-getting-vote, if you will.

What happened to your "town clear" on Wake?

Also, you were the fourth vote on the wagon, which proves the wagon was already built up by that point (and brings him pretty close to a lynch by itself), so voting him to see "if/how it builds" doesn't make any sense when it was already half-way through.

So now everyone wants to believe me. I get shade for "town clearing" wake and I get shade for voting him the next day when it was a clear sheep-info-vote which I said it was in the post you

QUOTED!

So The Final Scum:

Dave and Pisskop.

***Maybe Wake/Hectic.
****Prolly not Hectic
*****Wake maybe.

Saying it's a "clear sheep-info-vote" implied that your read hasn't changed on Wake, yet according to the second post quote here your read

has

changed, at least significantly enough to where you aren't town-clearing him anymore, which begs the same question: what changed regarding your "town clear" on him?

[Reundo]

Mena feels pretty towny to me. Don't really jive with most of Luca's case on him. Mena's opening was a little weird but he didn't really press Luca on it for long so I don't really see how it's scum-indicative. Although, there was something he said about Mena earlier that stuck out to me regarding him "lasering in on certain things and ignoring others", because that was basically the same impression I got from him, though I'm not entirely convinced it's scummy either since I could see it being explained by town!him being tunneled on Norwegian. His drop in game-solving after the last game day is a notable as well but overall he's been pretty consistent in game-solving and probing others, and I haven't noticed any really left-field read swaps or progressions from him either, so I don't entirely get most of the scum-reads on him.

[Reundo]

Maybe Luca is just scum

I was kind of going back and forth yesterday evening on whether he was genuinely undecided on Norway or just defending him and attempting to redirect to A50

Calling that a good defence is making me think it’s the latter

Also, I was skimming through Mena's ISO and I found this post, and I was thinking this would be a pretty bold thing for scum!Mena to say, considering he'd know he'd look terrible after Norwegian flipped town, which would only look even worse if Almost flipped before he did (which he did). I mean obviously there'd be a scum motive in him scum-reading Luca for trying to re-direct to his scum buddy, but if he was scum wouldn't it look better just to say something like "I see where you're coming from but I still think Norway's scummier", which'll accomplish roughly the same thing w/o looking considerably worse when Almost flips scum? Like I'm kind of not seeing why scum!Mena would tunnel Norwegian so hard and case him so extensively to presumably look towny yet also jeopardize his town-cred by hard-defending a buddy who wasn't even under a lot of suspicion.

[Reundo]

Night 2 I picked Norwegian

Why would you heal Norwegian over Chemist?

[Reundo]

Also, jfc. Pisskop and Fish are the SAME player. Why would it matter if pisskop claimed on his alt or not? Doesn't him saying "he already claimed" already confirm he's sticking by his Fish claim? And it's not like you'd catch him slipping up on his claim when Luca literally just pointed out that he claimed VT. Like maybe it'd be slightly better if Luca held that back and waited for pisskop to reclaim just in case, but I'm doubtful pisskop would remember that he claimed but not what he claimed anyhow, and Luca pointing that out makes this line of questioning from Wake/Dolly entirely pointless.

[Reundo]

Not only have i already claimed, I cannot believe this game is still going. its so far beneath my radar its laughable,.

Why am I being wagoned for lurkering? With over 100 games on site, and over 30 scumgames, not one of those games did I lurk my way to a win. Get real with this wagon.

I find it a bit hard to believe that this game is "far beneath his radar" yet we're supposed to believe he'd be effort-posting if only he rolled scum, which is pretty lousy self-meta anyways. I'm pretty sure he said he was supposed to be posting yesterday morning and never followed through on that.

I wouldn't be entirely opposed to lynching pisskop since there's not a whole lot towny about him, but I mean there's not really a whole lot I'm scum reading him for either. I'd much rather lynch in Wake/dave/Dolly today. Maybe not so much Dolly since she claimed doc, but then again that's the exact sort of claim scum would make.

[Reundo]

I just didn't pick Chemist. You know, WIFOM and all that jazz. I have no better reasoning than that.

Also, this is a lousy excuse for not protecting someone who was virtually lock-town.

[Reundo]

Like on one hand I'm pretty skeptical of Dolly's claim but if she is telling the truth I'm not sure if the risk of losing another PR is worth it. But like what really are the chances that we have two protectives this game and BOTH of them coincidentally decided not to protect Chemist?

P-Edit:Ohhhh yeah, I forgot tomorrow's an even night. Mmm, maybe it's best not to lynch her then.

[Reundo]

I'm still really bothered by Wake not responding to like any of my posts.

And him insisting that pisskop claim on his actual main is both pointless and rubs me the wrong way. Like I can't see genuineness in anything he's posted this game.

[Reundo]

Pisskop and Fish Monger are the same person.

You didn't see this post??

[Reundo]

@Dolly

[Reundo]

For the record, pisskop again refused to verify Fish's claim.

You posted this after Luca's post... I'm finding that hard to believe.

[Reundo]

OK, that's fair. But you also made that post after this post, which says it much more explictly...

Pisskop hasn’t claimed anything, he just referenced the earlier claim from

his Fish Monger account

.

[Reundo]

I'm not overly concerned which of Dave/Wake is lynched. Both are pretty scummy, but I feel Wake is more so.

I'm a bit more receptive to a pisskop lynch due to his continued lack of content, but I still feel he's the least scummy of the VT claims. And yeah, we should probably put Dolly aside for the day just in case she is a doc.

[Reundo]

VOTE: Dolly

I'll try to post more when I have more time / am not as tired.

[Reundo]

I've been re-reading through the game a bit, and it mostly just did more to reaffirm my reads, though pisskop does look worse on re-read. Davesaz also looks slightly better but not marginally so. I'm feeling pretty good about Mena being town atm. Dunn/Hectic are pretty null but there have been some town pings here and there.

Still would like to lynch Dolly today, and her posts today haven't assured me she's town either.

[Reundo]

Could you give us a quick shotgun reads list of everyone in order? Explanations aren't necessary but would be helpful.

I'll try to do this later. I most likely will be a horrible list.

Also @Dolly what happened to this?

[Reundo]

I mean sure, at least to some extent, but you haven't been very in-depth on any of them either. Like, you can't even seem to explain why your top scum read is scummy. You say that Dunn's scummy because he's the only one alive fypov not on the Wake wagon, but haven't explained why exactly that's scum-indicative, even when pressed on it. You also say he's been a "vibe" read but haven't really articulated that in any meaningful depth. Like, what about him saying "No claiming" earlier this day was so scummy / gave off a scum-vibe to you?

[Reundo]

Hectic, did it not occur to you to at least wait until Luca popped back in before hammering, to see if he had anything to say / what Mena wanted to talk to him about?

[Reundo]

Hectic, I'm not entirely convinced you're town here. I'd think as town you'd be more likely to think through the implications before hammering Dolly, especially considering Luca was going to be NK'ed 99% of the time. I agree that Mena's assertion is a bit too strong, but I do think your hammer was more scum than town motivated and at the very least it was bad town play, and I don't think Mena is scummy solely because of it. I only really see him opening this way today as scum if the team's him/davesaz, which I'm not feeling atm.

[Reundo]

I'm pretty much writing off Ruendo as town here, but maybe that's a bad idea.

Also, it's pinging me how before this you haven't even really suspected me much at all, and I get the feeling you've been buddying me.

Oh, and just a side-note my name's actually spelled Reundo. Don't know if that was intentional or not.

[Reundo]

Dunn pushed so hard (relative to Dunn in general) on there being too many protectives but I don't remember if he just paid it lip service or if he acted on that push. If he really thought there were too many then he should have been there trying to get one of the claims lynched. It could be a fake protest though, the logic he was using to say too many protectives was suspect at best -- not all of them are active at once and with a half vig in play town benefits from an extra half protective. It's a nice cozy rocking chair in any case, I could totally see this as being scum.

Did you like not catch Dunn hard-pushing Dolly or something?? This is a really weird reason to be scum-reading him in general...

[Reundo]

So coming into today I thought the team was likely davesaz/Dunn but that's a little mmmm considering davesaz's now pushing Dunn apparently, but on the other hand I don't think it's a very convincing push either. I think it's a bit more likely dave would push on Hectic if that was the team but I don't think a bus is entirely implausible either considering Hectic also threw that team out earlier. Actually, I think it's a bit weird dave didn't mention Hectic's hammer at all in his read of him considering that's literally the only thing that was talked about today, but I'm doubting they're a team together. I'm leaning towards dave/Dunn atm, but I'd need to re-read the game again later. It's either that or Hectic/Dunn, and maybe it could be dave/Mena too but I'm thinking Mena's probably town.

[Reundo]

I don't see him actively trying to convince other people to vote her past that initial burst of posts.
Yes a bunch of posts about her and a vote, then an unvote, and a naked vote back on.
Is there something there that I'm not seeing? Am I expecting too much?

The way you phrased it made it seem you didn't think he was pushing any of the claims at all. Like, how does him voting Dolly not count as "acting on that push" or "trying to get one of the claims lynched"? Maybe "hard-pushing" is a bit much, but it's not like he was pushing her less than any of his other SRs anyway. You also implied he was spending more time pushing on there being too many protectives rather than actually lynching them when that

was

the reason he was pushing Dolly on D4, albeit briefly, so that doesn't make much sense either now that I think about it.

[Reundo]

Actually, I think it's a bit weird dave didn't mention Hectic's hammer at all in his read of him considering that's literally the only thing that was talked about today,

I'm not in the habit of repeating things that I just had a discussion on. May even be on the same page? I mentioned Hectic's comment that went with the hammer and he said it was more a joke than serious.

Oh, I thought you never came to a conclusion on it, but I realized I missed your second post on it. Nvm, then.

[Reundo]

So coming into today I thought the team was likely davesaz/Dunn but that's a little mmmm considering davesaz's now pushing Dunn apparently, but on the other hand I don't think it's a very convincing push either. I think it's a bit more likely dave would push on Hectic if that was the team but I don't think a bus is entirely implausible either considering Hectic also threw that team out earlier. Actually, I think it's a bit weird dave didn't mention Hectic's hammer at all in his read of him considering that's literally the only thing that was talked about today, but I'm doubting they're a team together. I'm leaning towards dave/Dunn atm, but I'd need to re-read the game again later. It's either that or Hectic/Dunn, and maybe it could be dave/Mena too but I'm thinking Mena's probably town.

Could I hear your reasons for the Dunnst scumread?
The only

real push

I've seen which would be hard to justify changing thus far is Mene's push on me, due to the confidence he's presented it with. Everything else could easily be bussing, since it's easy to reconsider or slightly change reads at this stage.

At the time, the Dunn scum-read was mostly POE, and I couldn't remember anything he did that he couldn't fake as town. After reading through the game some more, I don't think the slot was as bad as I remembered. I think he's been fairly engaged with the game considering his activity level and I found myself agreeing with a lot of the points he made, so his scum-hunting seemed fairly genuine as well. There are a few things I'm concerned about, like him tunneling on Dolly, though I don't think it was unjustified. Also found his entrance today pretty odd. I agree in the sense that dave's analysis seems fairly contrived, but for that to be the only thing he's commented on is concerning.

[Reundo]

You need to reconsider your read on Mene, Reundo. Are you only townreading him because of his push on Norwee?

@reundo, I think Hectic and Menalque aren't likely to be scum together, and you're a townread. It follows that Dunn is scum by POE. Given a choice between a 50/50 where I'm unsure which is scum and which is town vs someone who is just scum, I'd prefer the simple case. Do you have good reason to think that Hectic and Menalque are both scum? Or at least sure enough that you think it's better to go for one of them first? There is more to Dunn as well but again taking a drive to visit the snow rn.

Will get to these + other thoughts when I can properly post again, which will likely be tomorrow considering I'm getting home pretty late tonight.

[Reundo]

You need to reconsider your read on Mene, Reundo. Are you only townreading him because of his push on Norwee?

I mean yeah that's part of it. I'm thinking it's not that likely scum!Mena sticks out his neck that far to case Norwegian and actively engage with others to jump on-board. There were a few iffy moments, and looking back I'm a bit wary about his defense of Almost too, but overall I think he had pretty solid points, so I don't think it was unjustified. I have noticed he's gotten lazier over the passing days, especially today, but there's still been some towny pings after D3. I kind of see the merit in scum!Mena just hard efforting on replace in and then sulking back the rest of the game, but I'm still not comfortable voting him atm.

Why Mena over dave, Hectic?

P-Edit:Mmm... yeah. Like I can see Mena being scum if dave's scum but the associative isn't strong enough for me to be OK with Mena first based on that alone.

[Reundo]

@reundo, I think Hectic and Menalque aren't likely to be scum together, and you're a townread. It follows that Dunn is scum by POE. Given a choice between a 50/50 where I'm unsure which is scum and which is town vs someone who is just scum, I'd prefer the simple case. Do you have good reason to think that Hectic and Menalque are both scum? Or at least sure enough that you think it's better to go for one of them first? There is more to Dunn as well but again taking a drive to visit the snow rn.

I mean, this'll be some pretty good scum theater if Mena and Hectic are scum together, so I'm doubting it. And yeah, I want you to expand more on Dunn too b/c nothing you've put out about him today has made any sense to me (unless your posts the next page were supposed to be you expanding on that, in which case yeah I'm still not very convinced).

[Reundo]

I haven't gotten a great impression off of davesaz the entire game. A lot of his posts look kind of towny at first but upon further analysis aren't really all the substantive, like that wall he posted earlier today. There are signs of engagement here and there but also a lot of questionable posts, and overall I don't feel great about the slot.

I dunno quite what to make of Hectic. He seems fairly engaged with the game a lot of the time and I do find myself mind-locking with him on a lot of his reads, but I do get a buddy-buddy feeling from some of his posts, and him opening declaring his intent to sheep me doesn't help with that, even if he does admit it looks scummy. Also him insisting his own hammer is NAI rubs me the wrong way.

[Reundo]

Him doing nothing all game is prob scum indicative for him

Though tbf, I don't really agree with this. Like maybe in terms of the past two days, sure, but saying Dunn's Dunn nothing all game is a stretch.

[Reundo]

@Mena, why is dave town?

[Reundo]

VOTE: Hectic

[Reundo]

Gg, all. For Lylo I thought Mena/Dunn/Hectic would probably vote one of the other so I kind of just ignored the Mena v. Hectic and pushed Dave instead while kind of nudging Hectic, hoping one of them would vote the other first and leaving myself open for a bus just in case, which ended up working out. Also RE: D4 I was kind of tired of just sitting back and coasting back and I just got the sudden motivation to effort post and thought at worst it wouldn't really hamper my town cred, though that spark died out after a while. Oh well. I'm pretty content with my play this game for the most part. I wish I would've been a bit more active maybe but eh. Got pretty lucky with the Chem kill considering I would've been lynched D2 otherwise.

And yeah, I'm good with the scum PT being released too.

[Reundo]

Yeah, I'm usually fairly thorough/wally as town and that mostly carried over into my scum game, though I've felt more laid back / detached than I usually am.