Large Normal 220: Jazz Mafia [Game Over!]

[Ankamius]

Hey guys

What is the synopsis of the game so far?

[Ankamius]

I think this is the game I'm going to meta break

[Ankamius]

Back tomorrow

[Ankamius]

VOTE: Vorkuta

My initial analysis of the game so far has this as by far the best vote of the three primary wagons.

Baezu and LucianRoy are both likely town.

[Ankamius]

Why is Beazu likely town?

I will get to this at a later date.

[Ankamius]

Still incredulous as to how anyone could have a solid read on this slot

This really begs the question on why they're one of the top wagons then, doesn't it?

[Ankamius]

Can I help you, Saudade?

[Ankamius]

A thing called pressure?

Spoiler:

What is your read on Tet, currently?

[Ankamius]

What are your current reads, Flavor Leaf?

[Ankamius]

Okay, why is Baezu scum then?

[Ankamius]

Null.

[Ankamius]

Null.

Really? Nothing they've contributed has struck you as AI?

Quite frankly I find that hard to believe. Is it because you have familiarity with their meta, orrrr...?

I think you're overestimating how much of the game I've read?

[Ankamius]

thought Ank was towny, but I need to wait more.

I'm good at reading Ank, but I wouldn't want to ruin my 100% reading streak on her this game by a premature read.

Why did you approach my slot with this specific mindset?

[Ankamius]

UNVOTE: Vorkuta
VOTE: Creature

I am caught up.

[Ankamius]

Are you still reading Vork as scum? Or has that changed?

My official read of this game is that I have far too many scumreads.

[Ankamius]

Officially, I think Baezu is probably the optimal lynch for day one.

I would like to sort Creature earlier rather than later, because I suspect that I'm either the N1 or N2 kill if he's scum this game and I would like to know whether I have to prepare for that eventuality or not.

[Ankamius]

I did more than 10-15 minutes worth of analyzing.

A Baezu lynch gives much more information than either of the other two lynches, plus Baezu is the only current wagonee that is part of the specific group of players I most believe is scum rich.

[Ankamius]

What gave you the impression that Baezu was not a scumread of mine?

[Ankamius]

If it helps, I answered your questions in the opposite order.

Other then that, I am not arguing for a PoE lynch. I am arguing for the wagoned slot that has the highest potential information.

[Ankamius]

I misread your 1218 and thought you were saying Bae's wagon was rich with your scumpool.

That said, how do you feel about Bae's wagon? Good, bad, somewhere in between?

@Ank

Assuming that Vorkuta is town, which I'm willing to accept for the day since he is more a conflicted read than a scumread, then the only slot that isn't a townread there is Tet.

The LucianRoy wagon has the most town composition, while Vorkuta has the least.

[Ankamius]

Are you still reading Vork as scum? Or has that changed?

My official read of this game is that I have far too many scumreads.

who are your scumreads?

The list I would like to hard sort (since I believe there is 1-3 scum within it) is The Last Knight, Tet, Baezu, and Lil Uzi Vert.

BrightEyedFish is a leanscum read, and Creature is a strong scumread. Vorkuta and LucianRoy are both conflicted reads that I will shelve until a later day while I sort out the rest of my scumreads.

[Ankamius]

I still don’t really tr fl or fb which makes me think that maybe a lot of my reads are wrong

I might just end up sheeping today

What are all your reads right now?

[Ankamius]

No.

You are one of my five townreads.

[Ankamius]

That is the list of slots with the most awkward entrances. Plus, none of them as of yet have given me any reason to rethink my read (LUV has started to post better recently, but the other three have yet to do that.)

[Ankamius]

I strongly disagree that Tet has done anything town all game.

I would agree with you, and say that it is almost always Baezu. I believe that people are getting stuck on Lucian because he is playing in a less decipherable way than most players are.

Vorkuta is the designated scum counterwagon, so he is less likely to be scum.

[Ankamius]

I am referring to this set of posts.

TLK is town which is excellent. Krazy can be on my good side for now since I still need his vote and more if possible.

Sounds right, very astute.

A rebel among boys.

Sounds like a paradox but I won't fight it.

Well you're winning me over so I'll be rooting for them.

Betting on the other guys but I'm with you in spirit.

[Ankamius]

What do u think of the fact that i'm voting you?

I understand your mindset enough to understand that you'd be wary of me.

Otherwise, I don't have any particular feelings about it, no.

[Ankamius]

I quite like this playerlist. One of you might even be worthy.


VOTE: LucianRoy

Do u normally focus on awkward entrances so much?

Normally, no. This game is different from most other games.

TLK had the entrance that stuck out the most to me, and it was really fascinating the amount of townreads he got from it. The part of it that was most interesting is that the players that stuck out to me early on (and LuV's entrance, which came in later) are the exact same slots that have had the least variance in my read shift of them over time, not counting my townreads.

I find this particularly interesting because my initial thoughts were that the scumteam were looking to blend into the background and look busy rather than to get into the thick of things.

The Last Knight and Tet both mostly worked around Flavor Leaf, but otherwise fit pretty comfortably into this mold.
Baezu is a bit of a different case because of the V/LA, but her ISO from when she was here points to this as well.
Lil Uzi Vert fits this for most of his ISO, but I believe that this is weakened by his more recent posting.

[Ankamius]

I am referring to this set of posts.

TLK is town which is excellent. Krazy can be on my good side for now since I still need his vote and more if possible.

Sounds right, very astute.

A rebel among boys.

Sounds like a paradox but I won't fight it.

Well you're winning me over so I'll be rooting for them.

Betting on the other guys but I'm with you in spirit.

? I dont really see this as being much awkward at all

I did not like the way he phrased 61 followed by him transitioning into a set of shitposts with Firebringer.

It looks far less natural than everything else that was posted around that time from every slot that isn't on that list.

[Ankamius]

What do u think of the fact that i'm voting you?

I understand your mindset enough to understand that you'd be wary of me.

Otherwise, I don't have any particular feelings about it, no.

I'm kinda voting u cuz of krazy
But ngl you've done very little to change my mind; in fact a lot of your posts feel kinda weird/artificial/scummy to me

That does not surprise me in the slightest.

My content has always been the part of my play that gets me scumread regardless of alignment, and I'm specifically testing a playstyle shift that pushes that into the foreground this game.

[Ankamius]

Actually that's not exactly accurate. What happened last time was I sheeped a read of someone who knew her better than I did instead of trusting my own read.
I'm not saying it would have had any effect on that game, but I just don't like having wrong reads.

I specifically played to pocket Enter that entire game. I do not have this option here because there is nobody in this playerlist that can fill the same role of pocketable townlead like he did.

I also do not believe that Enter is a player that has much higher than random odds of reading me correctly. I believe that is also true of almost everybody in this playerlist as well.

[Ankamius]

You entered the game with an attitude that you have something to proooooveeeee

Explain?

[Ankamius]

I am referring to this set of posts.

TLK is town which is excellent. Krazy can be on my good side for now since I still need his vote and more if possible.

Sounds right, very astute.

A rebel among boys.

Sounds like a paradox but I won't fight it.

Well you're winning me over so I'll be rooting for them.

Betting on the other guys but I'm with you in spirit.

? I dont really see this as being much awkward at all

I did not like the way he phrased 61 followed by him transitioning into a set of shitposts with Firebringer.

It looks far less natural than everything else that was posted around that time from every slot that isn't on that list.

Less natural in what way? I still wanted to get a wagon going on Lucian and firebringer interacted with me in real time. It's not really ai, I approach most rvs this way.

Do you have examples of you approaching the game in this way as either alignment?

[Ankamius]

Creature, I would appreciate you answering my question.

[Ankamius]

You entered the game with an attitude that you have something to proooooveeeee

Explain?

[Ankamius]

It is really quite interesting how invisible I feel in some of these games, even with how many people are paying attention to me specifically.

[Ankamius]

thought Ank was towny, but I need to wait more.

I'm good at reading Ank, but I wouldn't want to ruin my 100% reading streak on her this game by a premature read.

Why did you approach my slot with this specific mindset?

[Ankamius]

Do you have examples of you approaching the game in this way as either alignment?

Any game I've played in that isn't in the newbie queue. I shitpost or semi shitpost until I get scumread for it. Then I get serious I guess. Depends how I feel about the interactions I got.

Okay, then what is 61 about?

[Ankamius]

thought Ank was towny, but I need to wait more.

I'm good at reading Ank, but I wouldn't want to ruin my 100% reading streak on her this game by a premature read.

Why did you approach my slot with this specific mindset?

because I keep feeling you're town.

That's not what I mean.

I mean why are you apprehensive about reading me this game? I don't think I've ever seen you approach my slot like this, at least not this year.

[Ankamius]

Well, yes. I'm merging my usual playstyle with my Branson alt's playstyle this game.

[Ankamius]

Then I really don't know what to tell you.

[Ankamius]

Go ahead, you are welcome to.

[Ankamius]

You can!

UNVOTE: Creature
VOTE: Lil Uzi Vert

[Ankamius]

raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawr

[Ankamius]

I'll read later

VOTE: Tet

[Ankamius]

convince me bb

[Ankamius]

He locked me as town. That’s just poor scum play

ok

[Ankamius]

it's probably because I'm a power player when I tryhard and I've gone about 5% all game so far saudade

[Ankamius]

oooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooo

spooooooOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooky

[Ankamius]

Where's bef

I want to see where his head's at

[Ankamius]

Where's bef

I want to see where his head's at

Here I am.

My head is still on Vork. I'm open to other possibilities but Vork feels right.

Also, I think it's strange that Mason Saudade Knows vork is town.

What are your overall reads?

[Ankamius]

Guys saudade is town

Just stop

[Ankamius]

FL what exactly is your meta on Tet that you are you townreading him for? Because if he's a competent scum planner at all, then I'm pretty damn sure he's trying to set up a Ank->Saudade lynch order for ythe first two days

[Ankamius]

Ftr if that is legitimately the case, then I'd be pretty certain the scumteam is almost entirely weak outside of him, which already narrows down a good chunk of slots where there is a maximum of one scum in

I'm not seeing a scenario where saudade is a viable person to try to set up a lynch on when scum can easily just work around him atm

[Ankamius]

Why did you feel the need to do that now and not on a later day

[Ankamius]

Can I go to the newbie queue too saudade

Will you IC for me

[Ankamius]

Tet coming in immediately when I started pushing him for his Saudade read just to dismiss both the read and the reaction test and then vanishing is not a good look for him

[Ankamius]

ftr it's also very early to be double checking the townblock when only like... 1/3 of the game is in that block atm

Townblocks naturally shift over the first few days as more flips pop up and people's reads get refined, there's really no need to just randomly shade someone in that block because 'gotta check the reads are genuine!!!!'

[Ankamius]

thanks for explaining to me why skitter

that really helps me decide that he's town and not scum trying to pocket people

[Ankamius]

what's your experience with scum!Tet?

[Ankamius]

lucian

if you don't think about the underlying cause of everything I'm doing

then you're literally never going to be able to read me

[Ankamius]

yes totally

that's exactly what I'm doing

[Ankamius]

who's the next member of the townblock I'm going to try to doubt and dislodge?

I think maybe skitter?

[Ankamius]

VOTE: Skitter30

guys I think skitter may be scum

[Ankamius]

I'm not as convinced on scum!Creature as before since he's started posting actual reads, but mostly it was the way Airick entered the game followed by him vanishing, then Creature coming in and aggressively being useless while throwing in a half-baked townread on me

[Ankamius]

as a reference, Creature is the only slot in this playerlist that I'd expect to be able to read me, and he's very well aware that I know that fact if for no other reason than how he played around me in FotM

him specifically calling me town this game while showing hesitance towards pushing it allows him enough room to pick up free towncred for my townflip while also not specifically getting in the way of a potential d1 lynch on me if it ever picks up steam

I've never seen him structure an early read on me as "____ but I'll wait to see", he's always phrased it as a confident read.

[Ankamius]

afaik that's not necessarily indicative of either alignment but that's also something I never really paid any attention to

shrug

[Ankamius]

that's a bizarre set of townreads

[Ankamius]

Think the replacements killed us more than anything.

Baezu also coming out of nowhere for the Day 1 hammer.

this

I'm sorry team :(

[Ankamius]

yeah if I had known what the setup was, I wouldn't have replaced in

one of the single most disheartening things I could ever imagine happening this game is feeling like I'm playing well, then suddenly one day it's revealed there's like 6 conftowns on the same day I claim a fruit

even if this setup is balanced in theory, it's horrible to try to play as scum since you have to play a very good night game

[Ankamius]

otherwise town overall played really well

I still feel really bad about replacing out since I felt like I was starting to hit a spot where I could coast for a while :/

[Ankamius]

I don't think the setup by itself is extremely townsided, it just has a lot of conditions to make the game very demoralizing for scum

there's a very high bar scum have to hit in order to have a pretty good shot with this setup and town require much less in order for it to be incredibly strong

[Ankamius]

I think town needed a disruptive role to help disrupt the loyal neighborizer

I don't think the amount of conftown this setup generates is too bad if there's more of a counter to the neighborizer, like a rolestopper

[Ankamius]

Okay so my 2 cents on setup.

So up to now I have played a lot of games with masons on MS.

I fully believe they're a really really powerful town role. Y'all need to stop underestimating it in setup design.

My opinion is:
2 masons = 1 town PR and needs 1 scum PR to balance them alone.
3 masons = 3 (yes 3) town PR and needs 1.5 scum PRs to balance them alone.

More than 3 in a game this size is basically auto win for town.

Don't show me games where towns with masons lost. They played terribly for sure.

100% agree with this

the ability to confirm town is extremely powerful and any competent town can make very good use of that

the raw power town has increases exponentially as read accuracy goes up, and the ability to confirm alignments is a flat non-negotiable boost

plus any competent town can use those confirmed reads to create even more correct reads, which makes it even stronger

[Ankamius]

yes thank you for modding, sky

don't let my complaining take away from that, your modding was very good this game and I appreciate you taking our criticisms in stride

[Ankamius]

<3

[Ankamius]

I can probably help backup mod if the setup itself isn't too insane