NY 215: HMS Erebus - Game Over!

[tictac]

VOTE: Umlaut
good morning

Io takes lead in the race.

[tictac]

@Laps Race to obtown sounded like fun.
Looks like Nosf took a seat on the starting line tho.
VOTE: Nosferatu

[tictac]

1. little over 10 games
2. read a lot. try to figure out what motivates people to do what they do. I don't like people being forced into things because it hides their natural motivations. Dig when ya wanna find out something specific. vote for things ya wanna lynch.
3. don't get lynched. lynch town instead.
4. reading
5. looking for bad logic instead of bad motivations.

what do ya think if IOs vote on ya? Is it a joke or serious? What is the logic behind it?

[tictac]

@CT so what does she mean when she says "scumslip"? Just a word?
@Nosf I have reads! Sometimes even correct ones. I'd think it would be hard not to have any.

[tictac]

pls don't step on open questions Io.
I thought ya meant the comment about flavor with 'slip'
Wanted to see if he'd confirm that scum-PT has better flavor.

pedit: yeh

[tictac]

Phone.
Gamma.. ya actually need something from me or just playing dumb for lols?
Agree that mala is kitteh and io cruel for vote. Maybe ill look at reasonin when at home tho. Also probs with not doing ct today tho comment about readin mala iso pinged hard. Actually dont mind tje style.
I liked lapsa delay in voting me. Like he considered it for some time without doig first. Shows thoufht.

[tictac]

I looked through their ISO

twas this bit. I thougth "it's mala, so that's max of 2 posts. What an exaggeration". On checking there's actually some posts there so nm.

@gamma
"bad logic is not a scumtell"
"logic is useless for all things"
2 different statements, only one of which I endorse.

@dave I think I've done AI things? Keep looking I guess.

[tictac]

which question?

[tictac]

o ya mean the one ct asked. It's probly something he wanted to know.
idc really. I'll answer questions by default.
twas kinda useful anyway cause it made me check my assumptions.

[tictac]

more likely to be town

[tictac]

I got the feeling he was considering voting me and then he did. I don't think scum would need to make up their mind about something like that.

[tictac]

So did you have that read on page 2 or did you arrive at it after going back to think about Lapsa (like in light of davesaz scumread?)

pg 2.

Waiting a post or two to RVS vote you makes a difference on whether someone's town? And it's evidence of "thought" when it's post 25?

yup

Fairly certain we have played together, but have no idea what game without dipping into history.

Musical Mafia.

group read is more likely to be correct than an individual read.

lol

Tictac, have we played together before?

yea.

townreading someone for doing absolutely nothing.

I am as well

Gamma Emerald is scum

looks like that yea.
VOTE: Gamma

[tictac]

ya unvoted too easy. from dumbness of orig vote was expecting an argument with a brickwall. I don't think it was real.
+ huge setup-spec post when ya posting light posts otherwise.

[tictac]

About Gamma:

I generally am a brickwall, but I'm trying to not be that way. I mean, dave posted how he can't read me because he can't tell whether my pushes are scummy or stupid. As for the setup spec I went into teacher mode, step off.

and you are succeeding. dave did a great job

I'm unpacking this since I don't think Lapsa is going to. I think it's meant to be sarcastic.
People are usually as smart as they are. "Trying to be smarter" is not an endeavor I'd expect immediate results from.
That town-gamma apparently succeeded is a feat that borders on the unbelievable and the observed phenomena could much easier be explained by him having informed POW.

An explanation of why I suspect Umlaut (now Saudade):
So my first game with Umlaut I recall someone making a similar RVS vote. I don't recall the alignment of that person (my first thought is that they were probably town) but I do recall someone somewhere saying that sort of reasoning for an RVS vote is scummy.
I'm explaining this not so much to convince anyone as of yet, but more to open the discussion to where if I'm wrong, people can refute me.

Things is I could easily see this post coming from "i think I'm kinda crap, but I'm trying to be better" townie mentality and I don't really see scum-gamma writing this. He has to know it's null-content and that content above all is the site-meta for townreads.
Buut, this read

used to be

"gut", and I really don't see what changed to give it reasoning.
@dave Can ya expand on you view on this post? Specifically on what it is that makes it typical for gamma?

Random stuff:

for sweet sweet tictac towncred

What does this mean?

I'd like to know as well. I have a feeling I'm being laughed at and I don't enjoy it.

Rationalizing my read of you

It's not a good idea to use words ya don't know the meaning of.

but what if she's a SERIAL KILLER!!

Ya can't both be SK, so.

Where did the Scioness accusations come from all of a sudden? I've hardly noticed them today.

mad coasting

agreed.

[tictac]

My gut reads are not at all like that. Comments on this from others please?

[tictac]

I'm trying to recognize when I'm being senseless.

Point is that is a really hard thing to do

The rest, okay, so Lapsa thinks I have an informed POV...why?

Well, really, I do. I think Laps agrees, but can't be certain.
He pushed ya from a weird angle, I think, but may be a difference in how we read.

[tictac]

502 Eh kinda looks like gamma tying himself into a pretzel in order to continue making sense under the constraint nosf was putting him under.
Thing is I don't actully think it's implausible that town-gamma would do that, but feels like I'm making excuses for him. Prolly shouldn't do that.

It's unbelievable that a person aware of their weaknesses could improve on them, unless they are scum?

Improve gradully yes, by a leap such that the person still self-identifies as a stonewall, but doesn't act like one, not really.

I mean I have my own weaknesses I try to improve on, but it's taking years, and the best remedy I've found is to simply not engage with people who trigger my scum-scum-scum-must-lynch-now instinct, call them town-for-now and try to POE. And even with that I fail pretty often.

Like how does knowing who town is even relate to making less stupid pushes?

It doesn't, but it does relate hugely in knowing when one is pushing crap.
Town believes in the things they are pushing, even when they are crap.
Scum know they are pushing crap, so it's easy for them to overestimate the capacities of their townself and think "as town I'd recognize this error" even if their townself never would.

Do we have some evidence that they're more accurate? Would you expect more accurate pushes from scum?

"dunno" to both of these, but it's irrelevant.

Could you explain what you mean by weird angle after Lapsa levels that out with you? (Or during that too)

I meant pushing on the null-content thing, that I actually found towny.
@Dave would still like ya to comment more on 192

551 & 553
your outrage here is weird to me. If ya town shouldn't ya be flattered that this feat you've accomplushed is deemed too awesome to exist in reality?

I did like 559 561 563 575 578. I think ya responded well to Lapsa pushing ya.
Lapsa is really really wanting to get

specifically you

lynched tho. Don't really see that coming from scum-him unless he's trying to distract from partner-dave.
I get omgussing out of anger, but being obtuse isn't really a scumtell.

579
Is lapsa being rude news to ya? Cause I got the idea ya played whith him before.

Buut, this read used to be "gut", and I really don't see what changed to give it reasoning.

It's a gut feeling
but there's a reason why I have that gut feeling
hopefully that makes sense

My gut reads are not at all like that. Comments on this from others please?

No responses to this is kinda disapponting.
I'm gonna assume my internal experience is universal if I'm not contradicted by non-gamma tho.

vote:dave

i agree with akarin

Wow. Ya read the game in 3 minutes.
Wish I was that fast

[tictac]

551/553: what are you saying is too awesome to be reality? If you’re saying I should be glad Lapsa distrusts my desire for self-improvement, you’re way off. Why would I be glad someone thinks I’m not trying to get better? Being called a liar for doing something good should NEVER be something to be proud of.

I don't distrust your

desire

. I distrust that ya have apparently succeeded

too well

for it to be believeable.
To take an extreme example, if I had been practicing telepathy and had succeeded, and people were calling me a liar because I told them I could read minds, I would not be offended. I'd go "heheh, that's what

you

think"

[tictac]

How does scum!Gamma make this type of post knowing the type of backlash it generates? OTOH ditto for town!Gamma. It probably isn't well though out, probably written in a hurry and submitted without a re-read and edit

So ya seen this type of awkward from scum-gamma then? I tend to think genuine=town generally, so kinda pulled in 2 directions on that read.

[tictac]

Is there a different reason to suspect gamma?

yeah..

[tictac]

VOTE: Scion
This is scum too tho, and makes my head hurt less.
fatrt noises.

[tictac]

As for my “dramatic improvement” that’s an overstatement firstly and secondly it was me not continuing to push something when I had been presented with a decent counter to my thinking.

That's it?

tictac please confirm

eh. kinda.
He disengaged from a crapcase too easy to have actually believed in what he was pushing.
The improvement would be in "noticing when one is pushing crap" department.
Can get context for ya or ya could read the thread and not rely on 2-person accounts. I've been pretty vocal about it & laps actually gathered at least partial context somewhere.

Yeah I don't like the waffling and fencesitting in post 601, good catch Dave.

tbf I asked him to expand on a post he was nullreading, so not suprising he nullreads it.

That being said I’ll go vote for Lapsa until I’m convinced lynching out of Mala, CT, Lapsa is a better option.

VOTE: Lapsa

Don't kill the doggy.

I do remember that but he hasn’t remained wishy-washy

tbf my read on ya is kinda skitzoprenic. I was hoping dave would have a meta-reason to nullread the awkward and help me reconcile, but turned out to be just a matter-of-opinion thing.

And not always in tune with what is going on.

Also don’t agree with this

agreed.

Tictac, can you give a readslist as I asked you too in 531?

Was kinda thinking it would be obv that I'm ignoring ya by now.

[tictac]

GE, why do you think that Io's error is something that looks scummy?

Because it looks like she revised her post but didn’t fix the comma situation. Scum are more self-conscious so they’d be more likely to revise a post. As such revision-generated errors can occur

Ios post has fucked-up post-tags, so it's drafted in PM-mode. Most def self-concious.
Then again, it probs means she does't have a PT to draft things in.

I could make a cool df-joke if I voted CT rn..
Maybe that's not quite enough reason. Gonna sleep on it.

[tictac]

ah ok.

Code: Select all

[post]100[/post]

should work.no need for =

[tictac]

I don't like how sci kinda side-pushes mala and was absent during the recent CT drama. Kinda thinking those are both mislynches rn.
Do wanna see daves CT-thing tho. I'll weep for my joke if it never sees proper context.

For a 'wagon with low resistance' Sci sure hasn't had many votes on her.
644 doesn't ring alarms for anybody? A me too to CTs nonsense? Conflicted reads and seeking to resolve them is a thing it makes sense to scumread?

can you stomach these snake tactics, liar?

UNVOTE:

This is the best post of the game so far.
I laughed for like half an hour.

[tictac]

Explaining a joke doesn't make it funnier

[tictac]

huh. I saw it as super absurb thing to do/say. Agression in conjunction with the unvote.
Didn't link it to ya really except in that he was unvoting ya,but he seemed to lose interest in ya a while before that post.
What word did ya think he was mocking?

[tictac]

@popopopo Who r u an alt of?

[tictac]

I know! let's change addressee!

Yea. Not sure really who he was talking to,but pretty sure it's not ya.

[tictac]

I was calling him a snake a lot

hm. could refer to ya then and makes more sense in that context.
Still don't see it as mocking the word, more being amused that ya think he's mafia.

[tictac]

Yea, hello Perf. I remember that game well, twas a fun one.
Hope to not play with ya for long as ya sitting in a scum-slot tho.

[tictac]

tictac - on first impression, not liking his slot.

Something feels different in his play compared to the play in my hosted game

I bet. That game was over 2 years ago and my first one outside of newbcue. Using dissimilarity to that for anything is reachy af.

tictac what's your read on CT, who put up a case on you?

Why do ya wanna know?
did ya read the case and the post it was referring to? I don't see a possible motivation for 644 besides buddying CT, which would mean he's town.
Do tell me what is there to agree with in 475 if ya disagree.

I also agree that 875 was towny, but disagree with the reason.

Can someone comment on my case against Tictac and say whether they agree or disagree with my points?

He's asking for a singular volunteer, not singling out many people, so would be supremely ineffective in locking scum into any reads they didn't want to be locked into.
(I disagree with locking reads being a good thing btw, but that's a playstyle/game-theory discussion and not really relevant to this)
I think he is feeling insecure about his read because it's being ignored. He's seeking validation or someone to tell him what he should be scumreading instead.
Comes across as very newbtown to me.

Lapsa were you talking about scion in your 855?

Spoiler: context

the chicken guy replaced?? wonder why.

not my fault you are unable to follow thread

That a scum slip?
Just did an iso, he did not ever indicate replacing out ITT
viewtopic.php?p=10435252&user_select%5B ... #p10435252
His iso

Just did an iso, he did not ever indicate replacing out ITT

nevermind. I believe it now. defo scum slip. carry on, soldier!

peculiar indeed.
Lapsas post would only work as a slip if he's scum with you. Why is it something ya are interested in?

[tictac]

I still wanna do performer, but garm is also a good option.

Pool, subject to change

I strongly object to any shooting of pur ya might be planning.
I'd argue for it but my reasoning not gonna be convincing to non-lagomorphs

still haven't given the readslist I asked for.

and I'm not going to.
Doya even scumread me or just object to my playstyle?

Tictac, anyone you’d like me to look at?

Do as thou wilt is the whole of the law.
not gonna read ya better if I override yer volition

@CT to be honest I'd need to do a mountain of work to illustrate what I'm seeing. It's more like I have a mental count of things and you've tipped it.

right. I stared at yer thing for a while and can't see anything there either. Either ya got apophenia on the brain or it's just a really hard thing to communicate/see. (or ya made it up, but I'm taking the claim as a given 4 now)
What do ya think of Garm casually agreeing to it, but not using it for anything?

This is the only post that actually made me raise a eyebrow at ct because it plausible. Not enough enough to knock him from my town reads through, as town can also change reads under pressure when other factors are applied.

His similar play style and akwardness to his newbie game give me a gut feel the slot is town.

Cause seems like insane amount of sync with yer thought-process or took ya 4 yer word unquestioningly.
And then he voted ya a little later which seems super-weird if either of the above is correct.

[tictac]

So you literally have me dicussing where i agreed and disagreed which resulted in me ultimately disagreeing with the outcome(Him being scum) as being in perfect sync or taking it unquestionably. I think you skimmed my post or are reaching for a way to shade.

I was talking about the existence of 'CT conforms under pressure' phenomena. Not whether or not it's AI.
Maybe ya can illustrate the phenomena better than dave can since ya supposedly can see it?
Or dave can answer my question since he's the resident expert on dave-like thought processes.

@Gamma do feel free to point out things ya see.

[tictac]

What's this talk about conforming? Wasn't it changing under pressure?

sure. changing stances to be exact.
1001 took the appeasement angle tho so that's where my head was at.

[tictac]

Well I'm going tbh I thought he was referring to the effects pressure can have on a read. I think that's clear with My answer.

The appeasement angle is bs.

"Pressure can have an effect on a read" is a statement about the universe, not a reason to raise an eyebrow at CT specifically.

The salient question is:
"did CT change his stances in response to pressure, such that this fact could have been independently noticed or verified by you?"
If yes, then fine.
If no, then ya likely took the statement on faith because ya knew it came from a townie.

now when dave originally made his statement I went back and tried to find statements changing under pressure, and could not find any, which is why I kept wanting to see daves thing.

Could be that you and dave are just much better readers than I am, but that is not something

I

am taking on faith.
I do not think this is the case. I do not consider myself a bad reader at all.

[tictac]

I don't think CT is town . What sort of throws me off he has tic as an sr, tic has him as a tr.

Why does that throw ya?

responding to rest of 942 would be nice.

1071 listing the names on a wagon and coloring them isn't wagon analysis. Ya have to have some sort of thought on what being on the wagon

means

about their alignment for the 'analysis' part.

Ya agreed with the bit about dave-voters not being surprised about the claim, but I don't see it affecting yer reads any.

What I do see ya doing is ISO-dives, but ya calling it wagon analysis.

If you're questioning whether I see CT doing things (which I call "appeasing people"), that's not acceptable to me.
If I say I see something, I see it. Seeing it is a verifiable fact. I've already shown something that I see.

First off: yer claim makes ya town-for-now, so I wasn't trying to attack ya. I was trying to talk to ya, so git off the defensive mindset pls.

Second: verifiable isn't the same as verified.
I do not consider 1001 to be showing anything because to show something means to make it visible to people who aren't you.
This you have not done by your own admission in 1013.
I do not have the faintest idea what the 'things you are seeing' are so I don't have an opinion on whether or not they indicate appeasement.

That is beside the point however.
The statement Garm agreed with in 824 was '

CT is changing stances under pressure

' and is

unrelated to appeasement

.

It is my

easily disprovable hypothesis

that this statement cannot be shown to be true, because it's not a thing that actually happened.

Now, townies can brainfart, but two townies are not going to brainfart in the same way without an underlying cause, which is why I asked about yer opinion on 824
pls keep in mind that I'm asking

specifically

about whether or not ya think it's plausible that town-Garm arrived at the same view on 'CT is changing stances in response to pressure' as you did.

[tictac]

If you know what post I thought was made under pressure it was 369 his evolved read list.

369 is a post by gamma. What is the actual one?

I'll respond to ya properly tomorrow, but will say that the thing is all about pow and not at all about appeasement.

I do not yet know if I want a wagon on ya, which is why I haven't voted. I still think perf is a good lynch tho id prefer ya to mala at this point.

Ya just keep butting in to my conversation w dave, and wanting to entrap yourself

[tictac]

"I don't like how sci kinda side-pushes mala and was absent during the recent CT drama. Kinda thinking those are both mislynches rn."

And tictac's 1139 about lynching garm, perf, mala.

So he thought CT & mala were mislynches and that I 'm scum for pushing them. In his 1139 he preferred garm over mala. So he scumreads me, garm, mala.

tictac you are candidate #1 if mala gets lynched and somehow flips town.

nah. I like to talk in terms of what matters to the current situation.
mala is the other head on the block so that is what I compared garm to.
On further thought it probs didn't make sense tho, cause there's no way I'm gonna be able to hash this garm-thing out in time for the deadline tho.

I was thinking 'independently null/associative townlean' on mala when I wrote that, but have since reconsidered since ya had me thinking about wagon analysis.
I now think she's town on account of her being a deadline-wagon on a nullposter.

I see ya throwing up reads like it's going out of style, but this is the first time I've seen ya actually attempt to jab at someone, and it's a 'lynch ya tomorrow' type of thing.
None of it means anything, since ya not doing anything with those reads. It's just an attempt at lamist.
That's a really bad signal to noise ratio for a semi-active replacer in my opinion.

@garm: on further thought, I'm tabling the thing on ya. Ya at the very least someone who can argue properly and seems interested in doing so and dave doesn't seem to want input. We need way more time to hash things out, and it's distracting from things that matter to current moment.
Like lynching perfomer and not lynching mala.

[tictac]

Like did anyone else have that "OMG Performer didn't know who they replaced, obviously made up reads before replacing in, LYNCH IT!!1!" response? I started to have that after reading the quote Dave pulled out. But in context it doesn't seem that weird.

How many votes is Performer at?

Fairly certain dave knew who I replaced. He voted me after I replaced in. He's not the kind of person to easily mess up or forget who replaced who in a game. At the same time though, he did claim vig and I'm the type of player who treats pr claims very seriously.

Also have I played with you before? Your avatar and name seem familiar.

This is slimy as fuck btw.
Shading dave, while not shading him, cause it's more likely to get akarin to not vote ya.

[tictac]

VOTE: Hugo
-didn't get voted at all day 1 which is weird 4 a nullslot.
-all the SK spec

about perf: 1213 is kinda hilariousness I don't really expect from scum. gonna give him a bit of space 4 now.

@garm here's the thing I promised on 1101:
- all the straw about me supposedly thinking ya appeased dave and demanding consistency w that pow is weird, but eh.

could

be a misunderstand.
- why didn't I ask ya first? Because I was confused about what ya agreed w dave on, and didn't know I was confused. That's how confusion works.
- ya do get a paranoia-point 4 thinking I'm Thanatos.
- in fact I see now that ya explicitely

didn't

agree w 791 which I thought ya did. --> This thing didn't have the edge I thought it did.
- kinda wanna resurrect dave so we can lynch him 4 that post. mod made an error. dave is scum.
- kiinda granting 'readslists are made by pressure by default', nut makes me itch.
- still weird that town!you goes digging for info he considers non-AI..
- "flowed artificial or genuinely evolved" <-- precise thing I tried to figure out about ya. not all this extra stuff ya crammed in.
- do like the observation about my thought being narrow. It's true and very intentional from me. caring about everything is caring about nothing.
- I took the time to make this short. Ya welcome.

i.e. ya lean scum, but not a high read.
Thoughts on 1202?

[tictac]

I mean as far as I've seen Nosfu is basically universally null read and not pushed and you don't seem to have a problem with him.
The SK speculation is honestly Null, like he'd need to be a Serial Killer to make "speculation about SK" a valid point and I just don't really expect SK to be in this game given the trends in setup.
Also it was Gamma who brought up the SK stuff which confused Hugo into thinking SK was not only normal, but to be expected. It honestly makes sense why he would be fixated on a possible SK.

Nosf did have a wagon on day 1. Hugo is the only slot that didn't get voted at all.
Also nosf doesn't fall into the same category of 'easily mislynchable if town' folks imo.
If ya hang around the thread looking like a lynchbait 4 a significant amount of time and

absolutely nobody

tries to lynch ya even a little bit, there is probably a reason why, an that reason is probs that ya scum.

- A scumteam w fewer than expected number of member would have an increased reason to expect a SK to exist.
- There's no valid things mafia members to look 4 in thread beause of the informed pow.. except a possible SK.
- townies risk a nightkill by default. mafia doesn't,unless there's a SK.

--->increased interest in a potential SK is a scummy thing.
Which Hugo started doing on day 1.

@perf it’s not 100% but it’s a strong read

^this

tic...where you at with CT now?

Feeling pretty good still.

Yer gamestate comments about who is scumreading whom don't make sense to me.
Could ya go into some detail on what ya getting out of this particular answer?

[tictac]

ok so, i'm here and this is really important to me right now because this is my first non newbie game and i had even asked the host where the setup is before subbing in. So the roles are basically 15 Any Alignments?? of course balanced. and it's just town and mafia right? i am on my phone now but i think I recall seeing that on the setup wiki was only red and green colors. Are there neutral or cult roles on this website? do they exist in this setup?

I have only discussed serial killer because of this first post directed at me. Thank you @ Io for being the only person who understands.

Ya literally quote yourself being interested in 3rd parties before gamma posted..
Don't see how ya being honest here.

However..

about perf: 1213 is kinda hilariousness I don't really expect from scum. gonna give him a bit of space 4 now.

@Perf: That's about as much space as that post buys ya.
Was hoping you'd use the time 4 something towny, but instead we get that inactivity that ya even said was a scumtell of yours.(ref. 1204, 1205, yer wiki)
(from activity overview: Performer Sep 14, 05:58am Sep 22, 09:14pm 1 day 19 hours)

meanwhile garm continues denying being stupid about mala, which I count as town behaviour --> feeling better still about lynching ya.

Still don't like the lack of counterwagon, but eh reading the situation more as scum cutting their losses since the pressure on ya been high since day 1.
Also don't really agree w gamma about ya trying to get on counterwagon. would expect more interest in my Hugo-thing if it was something scumz were attempting to make into a counterwagon. I think ya were just trying to distance a bit there..

anyways:
VOTE: Performer

L-1

[tictac]

fine with this
VOTE: Saudade

could go 4 hugo as well

[tictac]

daymn.
i even thought 'might be mylo' but was too pissed to see 2 PRs dead to post properly..

that SK-stuff was traitor hinting then?
'didn't get voted' part of the case on hugo was crap since mafia wasn't informed about him.

really kinda amusing how deep in purrs pocket I was. I don't even dunno if they had to do anything to put me there

[tictac]

VOTE: Umlaut
good morning

Io takes lead in the race.

Perhaps the greatest regret I have concerning this game was not turning this into a poem as I posted.
It came to me perhaps a couple minutes later, but by then i felt too awkward about it:

Io takes a lead in the race.
Soon she'll catch lead with her face.

[tictac]

well i did go back on day 3.
that was more of a 'i'm pissed about the quickhammer & super-sure that lapsa is town so idgaf' vote tho.

also right about hugo tho most of the reasoning was probs not ai.

did plan to lamist-burst to shake the wagon, but thought it was 1 day to LYLO..
would have done it sooner if I didn't wanna see who would get on my wagon.
should have given more weight to 4-scum theory.

good chance I'd have tunneled on nosf if ya didn't fastwagon me so was probs gonna be scum-win even if it was 3 scum, tho perhaps not a perfect one.

[tictac]

People literally ignored me asking if purr was a town power role or not.

well yea, cause outing potential PRs is antitown. generally speaking..

. Not only did he try to push daves reads with out reasoning

tbh, that loads better than not having reasoning at all.
Not that I could read him any better 4 it tho..

Also wish tic would've reacted more to your case on him.

Problem was, it was a super basic 'tic needs to be more open' case, and that does often come from newbtown as well. Still not a thing I'm inclined to take seriously, so there was really nothing to react

to

.
I did have a slight blip from CT when he voted ya with a comparatively much more complex case, but I was in too much of a perf-tunnel and thought "cool, he's not totally useless" and not "he's breaking character" like I should have. I agree that CT sounds pretty townie generally, but people will vary in how they intepret it.

[tictac]

Not if you are scum reading them and you want to sort them by having scum kill them.

lol
yea, that's a thing one might do.

[tictac]

Tictac, how surprised were you when the quickhammer happened? Just so you know, Saudade nearly stopped it from happening. He said he thought it was a "cheap" tactic.

Well, I was checking the site to see if was quickwagoned while I slept, but I thought it would have been townies doing it, and I din't think it was

propable

.
..soo. I'd say moderately surprised. quickhammering is a pretty classic strat. may be a bit boring, but I don't think it's cheap.

Doggys are town kitties are mafia.

Bunnies are 3rd party.

[tictac]

probably the fastest lynch I've ever seen was in 7 pages in a mini normal....not a quick hammer iirc
the guy who hammered, ended up being killed on n1 too LOL
bizarre game that obviously didn't lead to a town win
with only 7 pages, it's impossible to get enough information
mayyybe a hammer in 10 pages at the very least.... I'm a big believer d1 shaping how the rest of the game plays out. inb4 Lapsa saying "annoying traditional Performer"

Note that the inverse is true too.
Too much care about having the maximum possible amount of discussion-time leads to day1 wagons being danger-free and thus info-free.
Putting things at L-1 and watching how people behave is a huge part of this game, and the site-meta on quickhammering not being considered scummy is hugely detrimental to analysis. Intent to hammer is supposed to take days not minutes.
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... _Your_Vote

i.e. Performer is a new-age whippersnapper

[tictac]

lapsa and tic tacs syncronization

That's prbs just how I am when I have a strong TR.
Town cohesion often trumps voting 4 the absolute highest scumread.

[tictac]

kinda curious if 1355 was comprehensible to garm or anyone else.
i felt like i was leaving out loads of context in effort to compress and relying on reader having a good memory.
tying to be a less wall-heavy player lately.

[tictac]

Many times I found myself wondering if English was your first language

It's not. I'm finnish.

@garm Thanks for the feedback
Looks like about the same level of clarity a wall would have had, which is nice.
didn't really push 4 the reaction. I just thought ya were scum until the read changed.
(doesn't mean I don't pay attention to how people react even if it's not my main goal)

I enjoyed writing this, but I'm kinda doubting myself already.

I get too invested when I spot cool things.

that's the gist of the thing.

by the time of 1355 I had decided you weren't a high-scumread, and was more explaining my thought-process than pushing.
it's fine if that post doesn't work optimally as a push. If I had faked certainty I didn't posess then I really would have had an agenda.

don't really subscribe to 'pushing is all' philosophy, i'm more about analysis if it's not nearing deadline, like with my day 1 interaction with gamma and the failed attempt to double-check that I'm not in a perf-tunnel at the beginning of day2.
the main reason i like to have an overflow-thread is so I end up pushing for fewer things future-me will regret pushing. If I didn't have one that wall would have ended up in the game, and that would have been bad.
Having doubt is not a bad thing and my main failing in this game was having too little of it.