Large Normal 212: Korts' Geriatrics - Game Over @1831

[Pine]

Hey all, I confirmed by PM because I had a ruleset question.

Awww, MoI I like you too.

VOTE: MoI

Here I got you this.

[Pine]

I don't have a problem with hidden alts. I've done the same a number of times. People deserve privacy when requested, and not disclosing identity is implicitly that.

[Pine]

I'm on a "respect people and don't be toxic" kick. I was inquiring as to how proactive Korts would be in enforcing the relevant rule.

[Pine]

*eye roll*

This comes up every time someone has a private alt.

It's their business. They have chosen to remain anonymous. I don't know who Old Man is and I don't care. I don't know if he's Town or scum (though I care to find out).

You aren't being asked to agree with their desire for privacy. You're being asked to honor it.

Please can we drop this pointless and arguably personal line of questioning? It's totally NAI, and therefore irrelevant.

[Pine]

Also, everyone deserves privacy. Always, at any time, place, or condition. Especially when they've sought it out. Refusing to grant privacy is not okay.

Rant over. Let's lunch MoI.

[Pine]

Oh, sit on it, Cooldog. Trying to bully people into revealing a concealed identity isn't helpful or alignment-indicative and you know it. Stop trying to imply that I was shutting down a legitimate line of questioning.

Also, I meant 'lynch' MoI. Stupid autocorrect.

...lunch, MoI?

[Pine]

I had gooey pizza today for lunch and Mexican for dinner last night (true). How about sammiches?

VOTE: KMD

not RVS

This? Pretty unremarkable.

Haven't made my mind up about Cooldog yet. Claiming PGO as scum is a pretty old school baller-scum move, but it's also the kind of role I might expect to see in a geriatric. So...plausible, I guess?

[Pine]

This? Pretty unremarkable.

So nothing oddball at all to you of him confirming in thread after Korts had said all confirms are in (signifying he had not read that post) but then said his vote on KMD was not RVS (signifying that he had read KMD's posts to make a "serious" vote)?

Yeah maybe he's joking and all about it not being RVS ... still doesn't explain why he confirmed in thread. Given you confirmed via PM I'd have thought that would have resonated with you as strange since you didn't confirm after Day 1 started.

Also sammies are great as long as they are hot. No junk cold subs for this guy. What are your thoughts on chicken wings?

Honestly, I always confirm by PM. Most games require it, and I didn't think twice about just replying to my role PM and confirming that way. Korts didn't tell me "Hey I asked you to confirm in-thread," so I imagine he wouldn't have said so to Eddie.

For this to be a thing, there would have to be something nefarious about confirming by PM instead of the less-common (though requested) method. Sure, maybe he was active in the scum PT or something, but I wasn't and didn't get wrist-slapped for it. So it's NAI.

The kmd vote was probably a joke, but if he decides to make a big hairy deal about it I'll treat is differently then.

I like chicken wings, though I top out at medium temperature. You mentioned hot sammies, what are your feelings about Philly cheese steaks?

I find your reaction to your wagon to be a little off.

Considering his entire response consisted of...

revelation: old people dont understand jokes.

...which is essentially acknowledging it as a joke, I find YOUR response to be a bit off. And frankly, as that's your second bullshit push on someone in as many pages,

VOTE: Chamber

Not RVS. Not a joke.

[Pine]

That's not how Mafia works.

Your behavior is on trial too.

[Pine]

I'm finding Pine's responses to be quite over-the-top (especially 40, 52)

I'm moody today, deal with it.

[Pine]

But also, you did just not respond to the majority of my post. What push were you talking about from the previous page? How is your point about his thing only being a joke a meaningful response?

I was referring to your push against Old Man and the new one on Eddie (which is separate from the old push on Eddie, which was also bullshit.)

It is very strange to be defending people in a game of Mafia on principle when I have no fucking idea if they're worth the trouble.

[Pine]

I'm not replying to #51 if that's what you're waiting for Chamber. If you just meant 57 in general, nvm.

He's right. You didn't actually ask a question.

Eddie, care to wagon Chamber with me?

There's cookies.

[Pine]

geriatric time waddupppppp

i'm excited to play with me too!

vote: axelrod

this is a better vote than eddie or pine

cooldog bruh if you're a pgo you should have claimed doctor to honeypot the scum

This post doesn't come from scum. Scum is worried about the PGO, not annoyed at it being misplayed.

[Pine]

I don't agree it's NAI. We can talk about it, but I'm not dumping an hour trolling through old games to prove a minor point. Your implied question is "Do you do this elsewhere?" Answer: Not often, but yes. Like kmd said, it's a mindset thing. There are better ways to play a PGO claim. I don't necessarily think claiming Doc is the right route, as that might provoke a counterclaim and backfire, but dropping heavy breadcrumbs and softing recklessly would do the trick. I don't think scum gets that crotchety about it, I think they have a debate in their PT about how to handle the claim.

*shrug* I think this s just a matter of us disagreeing on some points, MoI.

[Pine]

Also, I again don't find Eddie's confirmation to be all that remarkable. At this point, I'm literally the only player who hasn't. It's just not that significant.

[Pine]

Arrogant oldie thinking he knows better than me, complete with

bold

and

italics

. next time try underlining it I might understand better. You should check your math, though, because it's more like 1-2 days at max. I'm not going to rush my sorting because of a retarded wagon on me.

Simmer down, Eddie.

[Pine]

MoI, I'm not that good a scumhunter, but Townhunting I can usually do pretty effectively.

[Pine]

Bite me.

[Pine]

Maybe contribute to it?

What are your thoughts on Chamber?

[Pine]

I despise demands like that. The burden of proof for meta demands is on the accuser.

[Pine]

Fire, I'm often involved early. It's when the first five or six pages balloon to ten and twenty and fifty that I get left behind.

[Pine]

MoI - No? You're fantastic when scum, so I don't thoroughly trust my TR of you. Take that as the compliment it is intended.

Fire - Your head is cozy and warm. But I'm worried you're scum. </3

[Pine]

It feels like a too-easy mislynch push. Eddie's not really helping himself by being adversarial and not giving a lot to change minds, but hey. Site meta is that we suck at that.

[Pine]

Self-meta disclosure: I am a far, far better scum player than Town. As Town, I can sometimes manage to be obvTown, but rarely have significantly-above-average scumhunting skills. I'm around par.

All that said, I'm Town here. Hence my drive to be honest and disclose things.

[Pine]

I wouldn't have made it. I'd have let someone else testify for me.

That said, every time I disclose a substantive difference between my Town and scum meta, it's obsolete. Take that how you will, YMMV.

[Pine]

*shrug* Misreading me is your prerogative.

Fire read is gut approaching soulread. We usually dance around TRing and sheeping each other, but the blatancy of it here feels off to me. The "Let's be Masons" comment especially felt like a prelude to pocketing.

[Pine]

It also deserves to be said that I *want* you to be Town. We universally work well together when we're on the same side. But let me back-up and say that my TR on you is derived from our convergent logic thus far.

[Pine]

Hey Old Man.

Be less smug and condescending. If you're so out of touch you don't have any idea who Magna is, you

definitely

need to fuck off of your high horse.

Chamber, don't be a wuss. Stick around. Most of us like playing with you, even when it gets a little adversarial.

Oh, while I'm on the topic, someone (I forget who) challenged me earlier to reconcile my anti-toxicity stance with my sniping at Chamber. The above should suffice as credentials. You can spar with an adversary without it getting personal and petty. I've shot some barbs at Chamber this game, and have been aggressive in defending my positions, but I've got nothing against the guy. If things are getting too real, I'm going to back off and be a bit more amiable. It doesn't change my scumread on him, but it does extend a personal olive branch. Sportsmanship is the opposite of toxicity.

So yeah. Chamber, don't be a wuss. Stick around.

[Pine]

Fair enough, Old Man.

@Eddie: Pass

[Pine]

Be less smug and condescending. If you're so out of touch you don't have any idea who Magna is, you definitely need to fuck off of your high horse.

Pine I respect you want to make things less toxic but don’t feel the need if it is on my behalf. I think OldMan is specifically being insulting as a tactic. He’s clearly an alt and I get the feeling he thinks by being insulting he can “put me on tilt” as the poker term goes. It doesn’t bother me as I recognize it for what it is.

See, if you perceive that OM is trying to put you on tilt in order to get scum!MoI to be reckless and make a revelatory mistake, that should obviate your scumread on him. But...it isn't.

Now I *do* suspect you, for this cogdis.

@OM: Everyone has their own style. MoI not conforming to mine is not a relevant reason to think anything about him. That said, see above dissonance-based suspicion of him.

[Pine]

See, if you perceive that OM is trying to put you on tilt in order to get scum!MoI to be reckless and make a revelatory mistake, that should obviate your scumread on him. But...it isn't.

Now I *do* suspect you, for this cogdis.

Um ... I think it is ScumOM trying to take TownMoI's focus away from finding scum besides himself and instead get into a wall battle that most likely serves to turn off most players. Where do you get the conclusion that I think it is a Town OM tactic and that it lessens my scumread on him?

I may have misinterpreted your "on tilt" comment. I accept this explanation for now.

[Pine]

I'm starting to come around to where you are on Old Man. There's a lot there that seems disingenuous and calculated, and I'm not a fan. I'll be keeping my vote on Chamber, but I could see moving there too.

I think roflcopter may be my spirit animal this game. We seem to be pretty in sync.

[Pine]

I'll take a double vote, Fire, sure.

[Pine]

If Chamber is serious about replacing, I'll give his replacement a chance to change my mind.

VOTE: Old Man

Firebringer, to meeeee

[Pine]

i have this vague suspicion that hito and axel are scum together but i can't really put it into words right now

I can see that, yeah. Axel (like OM) has given me the vibe of using a lot of words to say not much. Hito is giving me overtly wolfy vibes, but I don't think a pro player like him would be that obvious. Or would he? Christ I just WIFOM-bombed myself.

I'd lynch any in {Chamber, Old Man, Axel} right now. {Hito, Firebringer} also giving me bad vibes, but are not D1 lynches atm due to insufficient confidence.

[Pine]

Ehhhh, it's nine pages, but there's practically no shitposting. These are a dense and meaty nine pages.

[Pine]

[Pine]

Frankly, I do not believe Old Man's claim. However, it is easily proveable, and when he doesn't deliver D2 we lynch him then. If it's true? Great, we have an IC. Moving on.

VOTE: Axelrod

[Pine]

I could, but I choose not to.

[Pine]

Nearly. Geriatric rules, son

[Pine]

PJ I have not been active lurking. I have more posts than anyone else, including more than thrice your total.

As Axel said, the relaxed pace makes it easy to just coast for a while and see what develops.

More importantly, though I just haven't seen anything enough that makes me want to change my mind about reads.

[Pine]

Maybe before asking questions in a catch-up, see if I answer that question on like, the next page.

[Pine]

Eh, okay, that's fair. I haven't been as active lately, and the post count thing was a cheap shot.

However, seeing the same things over and over IS in fact a valid reason for not changing my mind, and for having a dearth of new input. What, you want me to come in and shitpost or reiterate what I've already said just to keep my activity to your standards? When there are players who actually HAVE been giving crap for content all game? (Looking at Chamber/Morality, KMD, Kison, CooldoG, Tywin here) Please, spare me the indignation.

i have this vague suspicion that hito and axel are scum together but i can't really put it into words right now

I can see that, yeah. Axel (like OM) has given me the vibe of using a lot of words to say not much. Hito is giving me overtly wolfy vibes, but I don't think a pro player like him would be that obvious. Or would he? Christ I just WIFOM-bombed myself.

I'd lynch any in {Chamber, Old Man, Axel} right now. {Hito, Firebringer} also giving me bad vibes, but are not D1 lynches atm due to insufficient confidence.

This was my primary reason for Axelrod. I stand by it. He's saying not a lot, but using a ton of words to not say it in.

I don't require a page and a half of reasoning for a read, especially on D1. Further, withholding a lengthy explanation also puts pressure on people, and I wanted to see what Axelrod would do. He's continuing to do more of the same.

[Pine]

Also, this just in, PJ is Town. Doing his research, calling people on their shit, making me actually re-evaluate. That's Townish enough, at least for now.

[Pine]

Oh, I forgot to answer that question. In brief, I would fight a D1 lurker lynch of KMD, but not oppose Tywin. I think there are better choices than Tywin though

[Pine]

I didn't say "obvious." I said "overt." There's a rather significant difference which renders your question moot.

[Pine]

Sorry, I did use the word obvious. Skimming error. Still, "overt" was the operative word there, and that difference remains valid.

[Pine]

i really still want to lynch axel seriously is no one else seeing this?

i'll answer your questions i didn't answer... later

I'm down with it.

Hi Tammy! Sorry you replaced into a scumslot!

[Pine]

Hey Old Man, fuck you *thumbsup*

@Mod: Immediate emergency V/LA. Lady Pine and I about to leave for the hospital to welcome baby Pinecone! Yayyyy! I may or may not check in over the next couple of days, depending on how often I can/need to take a break from being a new dad. Posting should stabilize over the next week or so.

Break out the cigars!

[Pine]

Update: Home from the hospital, baby not quite ready yet. V/LA not rescinded, we could be headed back at practically any time, likely within the next 36 hours.

Full updates in the Speakeasy.

[Pine]

@PJ (& others): I can't really do much at all with this game beyond skimming. It's far too dense and meaty.

Lady Pine is on an epidural now and is getting pretty close to ready to pop!

[Pine]

I could be interested. My scum!Fire read is stale, but not dead. I’d need to ISO him.

I have a laptop in the hospital now, so productivity is a possibility.

[Pine]

*Caveat: I am exhausted trying to help Lady Pine through feeding a baby that won’t latch. The first time she did, and twice briefly today, but it’s concerning.

I’ll ISO Fire sometime tomorrow. Maybe.

[Pine]

Four big differences. First, MoI's request was for a specific piece of meta, chamber's was for a much broader topic, thus harder to actually answer satisfactorily. Second, I tend to be more sensitive to fair play issues from the outside. I play hard, and I expect to be challenged. When it's happening to others, I'm more likely to call them on something I'd tolerate myself. Third, chamber was being a dick, making unreasonable demands, while MoI was being a lot more professional.

Fourth and perhaps most important, I didn't actually honor MoI's request. I provided summary meta, but declined to dig through my past games to find the one piece of proof.

I think all of that would show consistency, rather than the reverse.

[Pine]

Four big differences. First, MoI's request was for a specific piece of meta, chamber's was for a much broader topic, thus harder to actually answer satisfactorily. Second, I tend to be more sensitive to fair play issues from the outside. I play hard, and I expect to be challenged. When it's happening to others, I'm more likely to call them on something I'd tolerate myself. Third, chamber was being a dick, making unreasonable demands, while MoI was being a lot more professional.

Fourth and perhaps most important, I didn't actually honor MoI's request. I provided summary meta, but declined to dig through my past games to find the one piece of proof.

I think all of that would show consistency, rather than the reverse.

They were actually for a similar thing. Magna wanted to know when you'd called people town early, Chamber wanted to know when Eddie had played specifically like this. Which I would guess is kinda lurky, sniping from the sidelines and not doing anything in general. I mean it's pretty easy to say yeah last game I took this approach as town was X.

Chamber might have been a dick about the newbie date thing in general, I agree there, but Eddie has been being a bit dickish himself.

He certainly wasn't a dick to say can you provide a town game where you played like this.

You did respond to Magna in a more amiable way though, while jumping in the middle of Chamber's questioning of someone else to crap on his attempt to get a read somewhere else. If you're on an anti-toxic kick lately, you're kinda doing that wrong.

It just reads wrong.

It's not about what you think is justified or not. You asked me why I responded differently to two similar cues. I provided my motivations, per request.

Maybe it's just as simple as I'm more patient with my friends, and I get irritated with people I perceive as being dicks.

Like you. Right now.

[Pine]

Are you kidding me?

How have I been a dick?

[Pine]

I'm finally home from the hospital with the little Pinecone.

I don't have any plans for tomorrow after Mother's Day brunch, aside from just being a new dad. I plan on spending a lot of my downtime here.

[Pine]

As a personal favor, please cut me some slack on the D1 lynch. I've only been skimming, but the bulk of the case against me seems to be activity-based, supplemented by tonal changes and some inconsistency. Frankly, that's all Pinecone.

As I settle back into being a person, I guarantee I can recover and satisfy the concerns.

[Pine]

I've been thinking about it, and my guy Fire!scum read is really strong. There's something off about him.

As a personal favor, please cut me some slack on the D1 lynch. I've only been skimming, but the bulk of the case against me seems to be activity-based, supplemented by tonal changes and some inconsistency. Frankly, that's all Pinecone.

As I settle back into being a person, I guarantee I can recover and satisfy the concerns.

I will be happy to "cut you some slack on the D1 lynch" but misrepresenting the basis of the scumreads on you as a result of your IRL issues (by the way, they are not) is not a good look for you.

We will resume the process of sticking the pitchforks up your nether region on Day 2 onwards.

You can say that Pinecone saved your mafia life this time.

Given that she's the reason I haven't been able to defend myself adequately nor effectively prosecute the SRs I have, it's not unreasonable for her to be my reprieve.

[Pine]

VOTE: Firebringer

[Pine]

reasons to vote pj: 7 points against me that are absolute dogshit.

Actually, I found the case as a whole to be pretty solid. I'll take it into consideration when I do my read through tonight

[Pine]

fuck that post makes me so angry I'm not doing this now

...scumgaveup?

As far as I can tell, there was nothing wrong with PJ's case. The confirming-in-thread thing is stupid, but the rest was solid and not hostile in presentation. Eddie's ragequit here is bizarre.

[Pine]

Guys don't replace out. Ugh.

[Pine]

Tammy I think you've redeemed the Chamber slot.

Talk to me about Tywin. I never saw the SR on him, and Lycan looks fine to me.

[Pine]

Sigh

Why can't we all just be a little kinder?

[Pine]

GINNNNNNNNGIEEEEEE

Eddie, I also insist that you not use the word 'retarded' pejoratively. It is just as offensive as slurs which make light of race, ethnicity, orientation, identity, or status. I'm not sure why that isn't clear to you yet.

[Pine]

I've been having a hard time caring about this game.

[Pine]

MoI who should I be voting rn.

[Pine]

MoI who should I be voting rn.

I'd say KMD but I want you to assess what I'm saying independent of just sheeping me please. It would be helpful.

Sorry the game is boring you. Did you ever get to re-reading Fire like I requested?

It's not boring, I'm just way behind in a very dense and somewhat hostile game. Summoning the hours and willpower to close read this thicket are just not presenting themselves.

Especially not with an infant sleeping on my chest right now.

[Pine]

PIIIINNNEEEEEY

[Pine]

@Mod: Staying in this game is incredibly selfish. I'm not motivated at all, and I'm probably dragging Town down by being useless. I'm going to look for a replacement.

Sorry.

[Pine]

Mod: I may stay after all. My game load has been reduced in the last few days, and I am starting to remember why I wanted to play this game.

Magna, where should my vote be?

[Pine]

Ok, we're coming around on Axel!scum. I can get behind this and catch up overnight.

VOTE: Axelrod

[Pine]

I am very sneaky, sir.

[Pine]

I could see Hito scum. He's been tonally off.

[Pine]

Lycan, I've repeatedly explained my "interference" with Chamber. I did not feel it was a valid, AI line of questioning. I felt it was kicking at an easy target while he was down.

[Pine]

Perhaps it isn't clear, so let me make it explicit: I identify as Lawful Good (or Lawful Evil when scum muahaha).

Fair play is central to how I approach the world. In a game of deception and guile, there's a lot of leeway. It's an adversarial game...but it doesn't need to be mean. In-game stuff, go nuts. You start in on giving people a hard time over out of game stuff, I'm not going to be cool with it. People have cut me some slack due to the arrival of my newborn, and I appreciate it. I just expect similar courtesies to be extended.

Maybe that's naive, or idealistic, but I don't care. It's who I am.

[Pine]

Ginny, tell me who to vote for.

[Pine]

@Insanity - Look at timestamps. It's an expansion of 658. I started writing it immediately after posting 658 and realizing it wasn't really a sufficient answer.

[Pine]

@MoI: Ehhh, not really. I'm calling it 'tone' instead of 'gut' because they're basically the same thing, but people respond better to 'tone'.

[Pine]

*crickets*

I'll vote Axel or Hito. Or maybe Fire.

[Pine]

Is obviously rather you Axel

What’s stopping you

I am on Axel.

[Pine]

Attaboy

[Pine]

What do you mean.

Do you not think Making America Great Again is worthwhile? Are you a pinkohippist Commie like Crooked Shillary?

/CoolDog

[Pine]

Y not tho

[Pine]

Pine has no interaction with Hito and vice versa? False.

[Pine]

i also like to work with some flips, for example i'm really stoked to lynch insanity once we see your name in red

I'm starting to feel it too.

[Pine]

Ginny your rants are why you’re one of my favorites. Keep being awesome, mmkay?

[Pine]

Axel lynch gooooo

[Pine]

Vote Count

(5) Lycanfire - hitogoroshi, Kison, insanity018, Old Man, Kmd4390
(4) Axelrod - roflcopter, ManaofIllusion, Pine, Ginngie
(2) hitogoroshi - CooLDoG, Firebringer
(1) Pine - Axelrod
(1) MagnaofIllusion - Lycanfire
(1) Ginngie - Eddie Cane

not voting:

Tammy

8 to lynch

Deadline is 6 PM EST on Monday the 28th of May.

I repeat. Deadline is in

3 days.

Hey friends

If you’re on a vanity wagon, now’s the time to talk pragmatism.

[Pine]

Tammy gets me. That’s a bullseye assessment.

[Pine]

Because he’s scummy. It so are you, so I get it you’re not into bussing with a viable CW and deadline looming.

[Pine]

My own neverbusser opinions may color my interpretation, I grant you.

[Pine]

i have this vague suspicion that hito and axel are scum together but i can't really put it into words right now

I can see that, yeah. Axel (like OM) has given me the vibe of using a lot of words to say not much. Hito is giving me overtly wolfy vibes, but I don't think a pro player like him would be that obvious. Or would he? Christ I just WIFOM-bombed myself.

I'd lynch any in {Chamber, Old Man, Axel} right now. {Hito, Firebringer} also giving me bad vibes, but are not D1 lynches atm due to insufficient confidence.

I could see Hito scum. He's been tonally off.

*crickets*

I'll vote Axel or Hito. Or maybe Fire.

I'm kinda torn here, I feel like the confirming outside of thread thing isn't a huge deal and I was just voting Eddie to make a wagon. And Axelrod 67 definitely feels a bit like he's squeezing blood from a stone and trying to taking this super far just to have A Reason For His Vote. But even though I don't care about that initial tell I really don't like Pine's reaction here. Seems weird that he first offered the "reason" of PMing to "ask a rules question" about rule 4 in advance of anyone actually posting anything rough, then immediately get in to spats and then later say "oh, I always confirm by PM".

Also I really don't like this one

This post doesn't come from scum. Scum is worried about the PGO, not annoyed at it being misplayed.

Because for someone still nominally undecided about Cooldog's PGO claim this sure seems to be tacitly assuming it's town
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Pine

Just caught up. I agree with Pine, Kison, whoever else in thinking the confirmation controversy is pointless. Honestly, a SR based off of that reminds me more of Epicmafia-type garbage than something I'd expect from MS outside of newbie queue. I also dont like how nearly everyone latched onto it as if it was some amazing revelation. That's suspect on D1, especially when the first wagon or two is usually on town. When nearly everyone agrees, then it means scum do as well. I don't particularly like Eddie's attitude (Pine's is ok), but not confirming in-thread is NAI for me. Games don't require everyone to confirm before they start, just the majority. I've played plenty of games where it started before I saw the PM to confirm, and it wasn't an issue? How is that AI?

That said, I think the hard push on Pine and/or Eddie over the confirmation thing is pretty bad, yet some players went with it hard, as if they were looking for something to sheep. Its possible one or both of them are scum, but why would anyone be so sure it's not easy lynchbait? Why would anyone not question it when half the playerbase sheeped it instantly? I honestly don't believe anyone genuinely believes in the confirm thing, so it looks like an excuse to form fake reads.

I don't know metas, but chamber going so hard off of it and claiming to have solved the game on page 4 pings me. He's accused multiple people so far though, which I don't think scum would be doing on D1. Thing is, those accusations seem to be based 100% on either Eddie or Pine (both?) being scum. I haven't seen any posted content that screams scum to me from either one, and hardpushing with little to no second-guessing pings me. He's not a hard SR mostly due to his playstyle. I don't really see scum pushing that hard on D1, but it does happen with a few players. Titus comes to mind.

Axelrod has been doing the same thing, but has been accusing far fewer players (none outside of Eddie? Pine?), and has not really contributed anything new to the argument, which chamber has done. Its almost entirely sheeping, which pings the hell out of me. They're not alone in doing it by any means, but they're also not giving any other thoughts. They've gone entirely for the easy lynchbait wagon with no looking elsewhere.

The player that takes the scummy cake for me though is petroloumjelly, post 64.

Looking like we should lynch Eddie Cane, Pine, and Axelrod.

I also don't believe CooLDoG's claim, but I'm not terribly interested in the topic right now.

Blatant sheeping with no original content/thoughts
String of future lynches
Not questioning anyone
Shade on potential problem PR

VOTE: petroleumjelly

Chamber: Do you SR anyone not based entirely around Pine/Eddie? Why or why not? What makes you so sure not confirming in-thread is a scum tell, and what do you dislike about Pine/Eddie's actual content? What do you see in what they've actually posted that pings you?

Axelrod: What pings you so much about Eddie's kmd vote joke thing? It looked like a normal rvs vote to me, so I'm not following your confusion over it, let alone the SR from it (his attitude sucks though). What else has Eddie done that pings you? Do you think everyone that is on his wagon are town? Do you agree that youre sheeping other's arguments against Eddie (I haven't seen you mention Pine as scum)?

Petroleumjelly: Do you have any content to add to the game besides bad sheeping? Why do you SR Eddie, Pine, and Axelrod? Do you think theyre all scum partners, or do you have independent reads? Do you have any thoughts on any other players in this game?

If Pine flips scum we are lynching Tywin next 100%

4.)

CooLDoG's claim is questionable because this is a Normal Game. Technically the role is not explicitly disallowed by the Normal Guidelines, but I do not think a Paranoid Gun Owner has been used/allowed in a Normal Game for several years.

For the record, this is actually the reason why CD is probably telling the truth (or he's bad scum). You can only have two roles in a large normal that aren't on the normal whitelist. So it's a dangerous fakeclaim because Korts might have used both of those non-Normal roles for Town, in which case it's near guaranteed to come down to a 50/50 at some point. Although actually, as I type this, if Korts gives SCUM a non-Normal role it gives them license to fakeclaim one non-Normal role, so this is less strong than I was thinking.

snip

If Pine flips scum we are lynching Tywin next 100%

Why? Please explain.

I don't really want to put in the effort until I have Pine scumflip in my grubby hands in case I'm wrong, but a.) the post has that over-workshopped, way too deliberate feel and b.) it has an overwhelming sensitivity about people's positions on Pine/Eddie where he's taking great strides to say the case itself doesn't make sense, but not that he thinks Pine and Eddie are particularly town or anything. To me it screams "My scumbuddy or buddies are being pushed by a case that looks like nonsense to me, so I'll point out how the case is nonsense without explicitly saying they're town". But I don't think townies go through all of that effort to ward off a random early game push from their null reads, you just do your own thing and try to make your wagon handsomer. Like that post mentions Eddie 11 times and Pine 10 times without actually including reads on Eddie and Pine, woof. (To be clear, I do think Eddie-scum does similarly implicate Tywin as a likely buddy, I just like Pine as scum more.)

Insanity 113 feels like it should have an Axelrod vote in it.

I'm starting to come around to where you are on Old Man. There's a lot there that seems disingenuous and calculated, and I'm not a fan. I'll be keeping my vote on Chamber, but I could see moving there too.

I think roflcopter may be my spirit animal this game. We seem to be pretty in sync.

I don't like the vote hold - chamber is getting replaced out, and the OM wagon has more traction, so if you like it why not hop on a wagon in motion instead of keeping your vote camped on a dude who's leaving?

Also "we seem to be pretty in sync" with no qualifiers is another instance of Pine intimating Eddie is town without talking about Eddie's posting to do it.

MoI, your 186 is silly because Old Man

explicitly

said he likes Tywin scum independently of Eddie/Pine, not associatively like I was reading it.

So my read on MoI being scum is stronger than before by his reactions to my posts. On several points he seems to be engaging in behavior which I think of as “discredit to push” meaning he says many personal things about his opinion of me to factors in this game as though they applicable.

he does that all the time, as all alignments

I'll take a double vote, Fire, sure.

"It's for this chamber wagon I've been sitting on and barely talking about all game. come on pull up a chair"

3. Hito's vote is more of the same along with an RQS-type question which I don't how it could be scummy unless someone wants to argue that he's buddying Rofl, but I don't see it. I'd give Hito a weak town read if anything.

For the record, the main reason I brought up that question is that this seems like the kind of games where people might say "Listen, I know X looks scummy, but it's ~legendary player X~ I can't possibly wagon them today", so figured I'd head it off at the pass and give people a chance to gush up front instead of having them pull it out only when a wagon gets moving.

--

I actually almost always get scum pings on MoI regardless of alignment, so me not getting them probably means he's town? Axel is probably my strongest town read, and also I believe CD is probably telling the truth about PGO.

Old Man's style is annoying to read without some flips. It's kind of the same tone I affected with Copper, where it's so deliberate it's easy to fake as scum.

Still don't like Pine or Tywin. Could maybe go for an Eddie wagon. But all three of those feel like they're in the state where I want to heavily index on their next few posts, so for now I kinda want to just flashwagon Kison and see what happens when he has to do something other than coast

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Kison

when i'm bored i reread stuff, here i have too many townreads so i was looking back at my wagon. 9 pages is less than most games ive played have within a day, its not a lot to skim.

-

waiting for kmd and boon and looking at a computer is hurting my head

Man, how on earth are you bored already at the end of a big fuckoff wall post.

Also, Boon?

I'd lynch any in {Chamber, Old Man, Axel} right now. {Hito, Firebringer} also giving me bad vibes, but are not D1 lynches atm due to insufficient confidence.

don't take offer of double vote from someone if you don't have a good read on them and especially not if that read is scum leaning!

I timed it to see how long it would take with CTRL+F in our ISOs to prove Lycan wrong about a lack of interaction. 2 minutes, 4 seconds to assemble all of these quotes dismissing the notion that Hito and I have been ignoring one another. It's to the point where I stopped quoting a fifth of the way through Hito's ISO because the guy was pushing me every other post.

Kindly fuck off. I'm one of the very few people who had a Tywin!Town read, and your bullshit pushes are doing work upending that.

[Pine]

I'm tired.

Sure why not. Lurker lynch.

VOTE: KMD

[Pine]

@Hito - If Axel were viable we'd have seen movement by now. There's support for a KMD flashwagon. It's subpar but an acceptable D1 EOD lynch with a decent chance of hitting scum.

[Pine]

Hito the Axel wagon is OUT of gas. I'm hitching a new ride for EOD.

If I'm wrong and Axel has legs, I'll move back.

[Pine]

Also I kind of want Hito's blood right now. This is *at least* the second time he's soft-pushed the Axel wagon while staying off of it, and it's a bit of a soft chainsaw of KMD, too.

On a KMD scumflip, I am 100% hard for a followup Hito lynch.

[Pine]

Yeah absolutely wagoning the fuck out of Hito D2. He's REALLY acting like informed minority around the KMD lynch here.

[Pine]

I agree the "move" is "wait for OM to prove his IC claim."

But then there's some other stuff.

Yeah, this. And rope if he's not an IC.

[Pine]

tl;dr

[Pine]

Wow. You went through a lot of contortions to make that fit your narrative.

[Pine]

Also VOTE: Axel

[Pine]

I'm not sure why you think I don't care about you as a person, Tammy. You're a fine human being.

[Pine]

Shit, I think that's a town post from Axel

It's probably time for a re-read

UNVOTE:

[Pine]

Eyes are blue, bruv

The attitude in 993 is gamesolvey

[Pine]

Honestly I think both are telling the truth.

[Pine]

It kinda does Growlithe fren

You know what

I'm feeling this

VOTE: Firebringer

<3

[Pine]

It's really not convenient at all. It doesn't require much in the way of coincidence, either. Most of all, this is ridiculously risky for a scum gambit, because if there's another robust investigator out there, claim it and we bag both of these scum.

Bring it, Fire. I'm rubber and you're glue, mofo.

[Pine]

i can't get you a hippopotas eddie but i can give you this, one of my ten posts per day.

insert here a gif of brad pitt in troy saying "take it, it's yours"

the jeopardy guys must be getting tired of playing music waiting for old man to post

I recently used the longer version of that clip as a rally/pep talk for the scum team in Turn of Camn. I like the "storm the beaches" vibe.

[Pine]

Now I need to go and rewatch Troy. Such a solid action movie, even if it makes Homer roll over in his grave a bit.

[Pine]

Odd-night even-night makes it make sense. A straight cop or gunsmith would be mutually exclusive, but splitting the robust investigator into two, with some red herrings, makes it sensible.

[Pine]

But fuck it (hee hee butt fuck)

VOTE: Lycan

The odds to hit a scum here can't be passed up. I'm thinking this is a mistake, but it's a low risk one.

[Pine]

It's not, actually. Splitting strong and weak investigators makes Town more flexible

Ugh

I have reasons for being okay with Lycan dying, but I genuinely believe both claims.

VOTE: Firebringer

[Pine]

Odd-night even-night makes it make sense. A straight cop or gunsmith would be mutually exclusive, but splitting the robust investigator into two, with some red herrings, makes it sensible.

Quite literally we had the even-night bus driver and odd-night redirector in turn of camn

Really I'm starting to see it as weaken the power by potentially cutting it in half if one gets killed.

Like instead of just a full strength cop, you have it broken up.

So honestly it's not a scum claim

Yeah that's what I was just thinking of. Though, if you recall, scum claimed the even side in that game.

Irrelevant. I have semi-selfish reasons for being okay with a Lycan lynch, but they don't outweigh having him around as a solid Townread.

[Pine]

Someone tell me the case on Insanity? She's in my PoE pool but I haven't done an ISO dive

[Pine]

Ginngie

PJ was Town, this looks like Ginny's Towngame

Lycanfire

Tyson was Townish, claim is Townish

roflcopter

Strong TR from early game

Old Man

Town by claim
Kison

MagnaofIllusion

Town by play
insanity018

Tammy

Thoroughly redeemed chamber's slot
Firebringer
Eddie Cane

Axelrod

Caught a Towntell

CooLDoG

Probably Town by claim

Pine

I've seen my role PM

Kison-Has played a tight game. I don't have meta on him.
Insanity-I don't have a good read on her, I've been focusing on other reads.
Firebringer-Confident scumread.
Eddie-I can never read Eddie.

My vote is on Fire.

[Pine]

Awwww, MoI, be my friend!

Nah I'm just lazy this game.

[Pine]

MoI - No? You're fantastic when scum, so I don't thoroughly trust my TR of you. Take that as the compliment it is intended.

Fire - Your head is cozy and warm. But I'm worried you're scum. </3

Post 142 I started suspecting you for disingenuous buddying, Fire, it's going to take a bit more than that to paint my longstanding read as recent OMGUS.

[Pine]

MoI plz don't make me tryhard here.

[Pine]

I'll answer your stuff when I get home jeez

[Pine]

I'll answer your stuff when I get home jeez

Oh right I forgot about this.

Baby stuff.

I'll leave the window open and work on it when she's not fussing.

[Pine]

Eddie - I haven't said it before, but I've been *wrong* a lot about you. I'm adapting to the apparent uselessness of my meta on you. Not everyone is as self-aware as a recently-filled diaper.

...My life may be coloring my use of metaphor.

Anyway, I thought I could read you, apparently I can't, so I don't trust myself anymore. Hopefully this and other recent games will help me get a better handle. Right now you're just null and not eliminated from my PoE.

[Pine]

Pine you will always be my friend but you have to know by now I have a huge aversion to using lazy as an excuse … for example if you want to point to posts that actually look like game-solving from Axel 1061 and 1062 do fit the bill.

Odd-night even-night makes it make sense. A straight cop or gunsmith would be mutually exclusive, but splitting the robust investigator into two, with some red herrings, makes it sensible.

So Pine I want you to talk through the implications of what you are saying here.

What roles would be Red Herrings for each role?
What roles would be False Clears for each role?

After you consider those read 956 in light of the answers to the above questions and tell me what conclusions you might draw. Thanks!

Right, this.

==Other posts may have looked more gamesolvey, but that one caught my eye. Quite literally as simple as that. It made me take a step back and reevaluate.
=="Red herrings thrown in" doesn't necessarily mean some for each. Cop red herrings would be Godfather and Miller, but the former is rare these days and the latter would have been claimed already by practically anyone on this playerlist. The red herrings were a reference to negative utility around the Gunsmith, namely the Cop, or both, such as a PGO. I might have worded the original statement more clearly than I did, but alas I did not.
==As for a false clear, I mentioned Godfathers, but there is also the possibility of a Traitor, which some variants have been ruled does not trip a Gunsmith. (This is from memory on a heavily-interpreted role, plz don't ask me to troll through dozens of games trying to prove this. It's a thing.)
==956: As I've said, I don't trust my Eddie read. That does make me think, however, that SKs are often immune to Cops and/or Gunsmiths, depending on how results are phrased. Cops may get mafia/not mafia, SKs are sometimes ascetic, SKs have been ruled not to use guns but rather knives, etc.
==I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be looking at in 956. Number of scum is some pretty common sense setup spec, which is NAI, and the rest isn't particularly meaningful or analytical.

[Pine]

Ginny be nice.

[Pine]

*shrug*

Hito was a pretty likely mislynch. My best guess is that scum thought he was softing a PR. I really can't think of any other way that killing Hito N1 isn't a tactical error.

Alternatively, Hito makes a lot of sense as a vig kill, with the possibility that scum kill was stopped.

PE: Agreed. Your probability arguments do not hold water, and are distracting. Occam's razor suggests that either Lycan is a Cop and the investigative role is split even/odd night, or one is scum.

Just for giggles, here are some Normal whitelisted Town roles with a gun off the top of my head:

Cop
Vig
Vengeful Townie
PGO
Gunsmith
Possibly JOAT

[Pine]

so what i am saying is that if old man is a gunsmith there is likely to be ar red herring in the setup, other than the pgo. thus, a half cop that mirrors the half gunsmith is elegant and ticks the red herring box making it the kind of excellent design i would expect from my dawg korts.

Thank you for saying more eloquently what I've been trying to communicate for what seems like a week.

[Pine]

Self-prod

No, MoI, I'm not scum. Take it to the bank, friendo.

Moar votes for Firescum.

[Pine]

let me say this one more time

IF old man is scum, which I doubt, lycan is probably town.

Otherwise, Lycan is 3 times as likely to be scum as he is Cop. Additionally, the God tier dead player and the other good dead player both had him as top sr. Additionally, his slot is just fucking scummy. Normally, the odds are more like 3 times as likely to be town not factoring in reads.

VOTE: lycan

tammy I need you

Your math is simply wrong. It assumes randomness instead of intentional design. Odd Gunsmith Even Cop makes sense from a design perspective, and we've seen no CC which disputes it.

[Pine]

Magna y u no vote Fire with me?

[Pine]

Rofl you make me sad

There is no universe in which I am scum bro! So how about you back-up off my tits?

[Pine]

Also explain Insanity!scum. I've asked at least once for this and never got a good reply

[Pine]

No

Stop it

Don't be a dingus

Eddie's "math" is totally bogus. Its core assumption is flawed. It fails to account for the non-randomness of game design.

That is Not How Math Works.

[Pine]

I don't stick my neck out for scumbuddy Lycan like this. He'd be on his own.

You are ignoring the Occam's Razor explanation.

His role MAKES SENSE and BALANCES YOURS.

[Pine]

Where do you get Nexus from?

[Pine]

Don't get high and mighty with "scum by play." You had the scummiest D1 in this game, and were only saved from the rope by a bogus claim.

[Pine]

I don't stick my neck out for scumbuddy Lycan like this. He'd be on his own.

Why not? If you're scum with Lycan here, the defense is going remarkably well.

Why not? Because sticking my neck out here is idiotic unless I actually believe it.

[Pine]

Where do you get Nexus from?

[Pine]

We get some extra posts and none of us ever get around to using them. I'm fine spending some.

Nexus would redirect your gun investigation from Lycan to someone else.

You returned a gun guilty on Lycan.

He claimed a role which has a gun.

So why are you assuming Nexus? This makes no sense.

[Pine]

VOTE: Insanity

Yeah regardless of other cases, 1184 was a pure scum post. Endorsing bad math, buddying, bad setup spec, mudslinging. Plus she's really thirsty for an investigative to get lynched.

[Pine]

Yeah, an insanity scumflip leads me to Tammy.

[Pine]

It doesn't "bother" me, Tammy. I'm drawing associatives between you.

AtE strawman *noted*

[Pine]

Besides - an Insanity Townflip negates the read...which if you're Town you have no inside information about. Why so nervous?

[Pine]

Sucks when you have to replace half the scumteam at once.

[Pine]

Ginngie/petroleumjelly - PJ was Town, so is Ginny
Lycanfire/Tywin Lannister - I saw Tywin town, fight me. Lycan's claim is Town
roflcopter - Early TR not disproven
Old Man - Claim is Town
Kison - An enigma to me. Definitely a PoE suspect. I have no relevant meta on him.
MagnaofIllusion - Town by play
insanity018 - Scum by play
Tammy/Morality/chamber - Redeemed a crappy slot, but has been backsliding a bit. Semi-strong associative with Insanity imo
Firebringer - This is not his Towngame. Scum.
Eddie Cane - Eddie is pissing me off with moonlogic and bad math. This probably makes him begrudgingly Town.

I think Tammy and Insanity are the only real changes since last time, and the former is conditional on the latter
Axelrod
CooLDoG
Pine

[Pine]

tammy, please no.

[Pine]

Sigh

Back to treading water

[Pine]

FYI, no leads on replacements so far. If any of you have suggestions on who might be willing to step in, that would be appreciated. Otherwise, the Firebringer and insanity018 slots will be modkilled on Monday, and Tammy and CooLDoG on Wednesday, per Rule (12b).

Daaaamn. Modkills for flakes.

I'd kinda be okay with those slots being modkilled. Tammy's the only one I don't suspect of being scum.

[Pine]

Mod: Suggest/request pause on game while replacements are sourced.

[Pine]

Every normal game may have at least 1 non-normal role

where is the 2nd

Not anymore. The new rules removed the greylist.

I'll do my own investigation of PGO, I thought they were Normal. Pending that, it's a slamdunk fakeclaim catch.

[Pine]

OTM is right. PGO is

not

on the Normal whitelist. However, this game was reviewed before the changes to Normal games were pushed out, so they don't apply.

Ginngie is

more

right, the old greylist rule applies. PGO has definitely been approved as a Normal grey role in the past.

Additionally, Large Normals were I believe allowed two greylist roles, while minis were allowed one.

Correct me if I'm wrong on any of this.

PE: Damn it MoI.

[Pine]

MoI

I am not scum

Please don't make me prove it

[Pine]

MoI

I am not scum

Please don't make me prove it

That you post this regardless of your alignment makes me want to throw up my hands like so ...



I mean ... if you are Town it is your damn job to "prove it". I mean has the site fallen so far that Firebringer style play is now considered the norm and being authentic Town who wants to not herp-a-derp shitpost is something shameful?

I feel you missed my point

[Pine]

I'm still Town folks.

[Pine]

Ugh fine

I can prove I'm Town

Please don't push me to reveal more

[Pine]

day 2 can be baselined in about 5 points

- old man claimed a odd night gunsmith guilty on lycan; pushed by most people
- lycan claimed an even night cop role; old man no longer pushed by most people
- a lot of numbers talk (reminiscent of cops, you'll enjoy it)
- apathy; a third of the slots repping out, most of the rest prodging

4. not a bad guess.

@Pine
Who of old man, lycan, rayfrost, You is scum?

I don’t see a setup where town has a gunsmith cop pgo and you “confirming” yourself.

Probably RayFrost, but I don't see OM and Lycan as in conflict, they're odd/even. My role is not in conflict with them either, and PGO would be a negative utility to all three.

[Pine]

just remembered

D1, this was said:

As a personal favor, please cut me some slack on the D1 lynch. I've only been skimming, but the bulk of the case against me seems to be activity-based, supplemented by tonal changes and some inconsistency. Frankly, that's all Pinecone.

in viewtopic.php?f=23&t=76071 you were also being pushed hard and were a reasonably likely lynch at the same time. You did not ask for any slack or reference the baby impacting your gameplay whatsoever. This game has been filled with apathy and flaking... as was that one. the difference? I thought about this a ton d1 but ongoing games + I thought you were scum there.

-

anyone who knows Magna, is he one of the players that tends to intentionally play dumb as scum or is he more Jingle-esque in playing "pro-town"?

-

#1358 almost just made me vote Magna despite my town read there. Magna and Math what is your history together? I'd assume you've played more than thaw. Magna, or anyone for that matter, can you cite anything to indicate this is within Tammy's scum range? If not knock of the bullshit.

-

Formally this time: Ginngie what are you thinking WRT Lycan slot? Hard meta defense into vote is odd.

-

I would love to hear what Pine sussers think of the fact he just softed IC/FN in a game that had an IC claim.

I did not soft IC, and I'm not sure what FN stands for. I was never in serious danger of getting lynched in 2006, and they were

very

different circumstances.

[Pine]

Ah, figured it out - Friendly Neighbor. I'm not that either.

There are half a dozen roles off the top of my head which fit my soft. Stop digging into it, it's not pro-Town.

[Pine]

Besides..."I can prove it" technically doesn't have anything to do with the mechanics of my role. Suffice to say there *are* no mechanics to my role.

I really would prefer to just leave it at that. When I claim it all this will make sense.

[Pine]

The number of votes on me is irrelevant. With the low energy of this game, every vote counts, and bad momentum needs to be stalled early. I was particularly focused on MoI, who is locktown to me and critical to the townbloc which *should* exist.

Besides. I haven’t revealed anything, any if it comes to it, I’m expendable anyway. I don’t have any active powers, and will happily eat the night shot if thirsty scum target me. The only reason I haven’t fullclaimed is to keep them guessing.

[Pine]

What do you want to know, OTM?

[Pine]

This game sucks

[Pine]

Part of me wants to be lynched just to be done.

This game needs a shakeup. When I get to my laptop I’ll fullclaim and get the voteparkers off me.

My gut says Kison is the EOD wagon we need. He consistently stands out in my PoE, hasn’t done anything remotely Townish, and a bunch of what he’s done might be quiet opportunism.

VOTE: Kison

[Pine]

willing to vote Lycan, Pine, Ginngie, Magna rn

Oh hey four Townies. I kind of want to BoP you now.

[Pine]

Not engaging with you personally is not scummy.

That’s a fucking awful reason to lynch someone.

[Pine]

Okay, this game needs an inflection point. It needs to be shaken up. Normally I wouldn't ever claim without real pressure, but we're four days from deadline in a slow, Balkanized game in which the only wagons of any substance are on Town PRs. Apathy and low effort have really fucked us to this point, so I'll come clean to move us along.

I am a Town Universal Backup

I crumbed my role in the following two posts:

It also deserves to be said that I *want* you to be Town. We

universally

work well together when we're on the same side. But let me

back-up

and say that my TR on you is derived from our convergent logic thus far.

Rofl you make me sad

There is no

universe

in which I am scum bro! So how about you

back-up

off my tits?

Bolding added. "Back-up" is gramatically incorrect in context, and is in both cases followed by a version of "universal".

This is what I was referring to with regard to proving my role.

So for Christ's sake, get off my tits. Get off of Lycan, too.

[Pine]

I... I don't understand how that's supposed to clear you but ok

Thorough crumbing.

[Pine]

Nah. Magna's Town. With how hard I'm TRing him, if he were scum he'd find a reason to clear me and ride that to endgame.

[Pine]

Okay explain me why you are.

I don’t see any protown posts from Magna and all he seems to do is destroy.

If you were Town and I’m as easy as read as you present this post never appears.

To the contrary.

I want to see why Pine is townreading you as I find it is full of shit and if he explains I am confident that I can destroy it.

Dude read my ISO. I've been calling MoI Town since early on. His tone, thought process, and meta all line up for me.

Coming up hard on the 10/day limit, but w/e I don't mind using some of my freebies.

[Pine]

Vote Kison with me.

I'm pretty sure he's scum.

[Pine]

Frankly, I do not believe Old Man's claim. However, it is easily proveable, and when he doesn't deliver D2 we lynch him then. If it's true? Great, we have an IC. Moving on.

VOTE: Axelrod

I agree the "move" is "wait for OM to prove his IC claim."

But then there's some other stuff.

Yeah, this. And rope if he's not an IC.

@Eddie

I never believed it. It was transparently a fakeclaim, but one which necessitated letting him play out the day. I didn't bother checking it for consistency with my role, because I didn't believe it was real.

[Pine]

Dude, rofl, fuck off. Not only am I not scum, your connection theory is bullshit. I spent most of D1 pushing for an Axel lynch.

[Pine]

Okay, I think this is the day we stop being idiots.

Need a report from whichever of OM and Lycan is the even night (too lazy to look it up)

Barring a guilty, it's Kison or bust, I think

[Pine]

Lycan is the one today

Ginny ffs trust me here. Lycan/Lucky Otter is Town.

[Pine]

Okay.

VOTE: LuckyOtter

I'm not so arrogant as to think I'm flawless, and I'll take a guilty over a low-info innocent. My mistake, Kison.

[Pine]

Investigating Rayfrost/Cooldog is dangerous due to PGO claim

[Pine]

Yeah I didn't dispute that. I misread 'policied' for 'policed'. Be less condescending, please.

[Pine]

Yeahhh Kison/Otter bus does hold water...but it doesn't make Kison the lynch for today

[Pine]

You know I think you're right. Now is the perfect time to bus. I think it just means we don't clear him for this though. If scum he has to keep giving us results, if Town we keep getting results or he gets NKed and flipped. Kison is low priority, but still a suspect.

[Pine]

4 scum is not a thing. 17 players is the minimum for 4 scum in singleball

[Pine]

Quit yer bitching, Eddie. I didn't back you up because I didn't take the 4scummers seriously, and my attention span was limited. Now it's clear that they oh look at the doggo.

[Pine]

It's not my fault if they're being dumb, but now it's affecting Town-wide strategy

"I don't care" is a valid argument, Eddie. Stop acting like I'm speaking in tongues.

[Pine]

Ayup

[Pine]

Who left

Kison Pine Momrangal Old Man Ginngie roflcopter Eddie Cane RayFrost

Probably 6:2 ratio.

[Pine]

Definitely not lynching Kison

First week of camp over. Going to try to catch up thoroughly over the weekend, and remain current after that now that things have settled into a pattern

[Pine]

VOTE: RayFrost

[Pine]

Pine why are you voting Ray over Rofl?

As it stands he is pretty much caught

Gut? Instinct?

Define caught. I either haven't seen (or have missed) any significant evidence contrary to my early TR on rofl

[Pine]

Alright. That's why I wanted the claims first.

I tracked roflcopter last night. He visited Old Man.

VOTE: rolfcopter

Ohhhh this

Hmm

I did not interpret that as a guilty, because it wasn't a kill. I'm not payin enough attention.

VOTE: Rofl

[Pine]

You got a guilty on you son. Stop distracting.

[Pine]

That kind of behavior should be bannable regardless of alignment. I wonder if Kison will take action.

Korts, but yeah.

[Pine]

...31 shitposts in a row isn't spamming much?

[Pine]

But not a groupscumfuck, which is what we were looking for.

Gg Mafia. Well-deserved.

[Pine]

Hmmm yeah, given PGO and SK, it’s plausible that this could have gone differently. Mafia win was not inevitable. If they forced a no-lynch, then tried to kill the PGO while Ginny killed the other, the Mafia could easily have been eliminated with a SK win in 1:1, or outright if you rule that PGO dies when shot at.

Those are long odds, though. There would need to be a very precise order of events.

[Pine]

Hey now hey now. Let’s be kinder. It could be argued that OM’s fakeclaims provided the framework for scum counter-fakeclaims and division which led to mislynches, but only argued. It could easily have gone the other way. Let us instead say that they adroitly exploited opportunities presented to them, and a lesser sucmteam may not have been able to. I’m inclined to be a good sport here and credit Mafia with a well-deserved win. Eddie, Mom, and FB maintained solid Towngames, and the Tywin slot sold their life for a high price. Good on them.

As for me being Town, this wasn’t a stellar performance. I TRed Tywin and PJ, and ineffectively prosecuted my righteous SR on Firebringer.

[Pine]

Ewww, you used the word “mafiate”. *vomit emoji*

To put in a conciliatory word, I reiterate that I have no problem with the setup (it was a bit scumsided but around a standard deviation or so) or the players. Town misplayed their hand while scum played theirs well. The ending could have been a bit more tidy, but I don’t see how anyone but scum would win this. Sorry Ginny, but they would have had to do something extra stupid like no-kill to give you a win here.

[Pine]

It’s not more “geriatric” to say “mafioso.” It’s more “I use words which are words and not suffixes tacked on arbitrarily to things.” Mafiate isn’t a word. Mafioso is.

[Pine]

Also I cringe at “wolf” being used as a generic word for scum. I do like the notion of “deepwolfing” though. That evokes the metaphor of “wolf in sheep’s clothing” to me, and so doesn’t bother me as much.