Mini 572 - Packrats (game over)

[Elmo]

Gah, not scum again. Well,

vote

:

Sir Tornado

for revenge!

ALSO. ARIGHT, I'LL POST YOU JUST PRODDED ME IN THE EYE OW.

[Elmo]

Hm, didn't Skruffs used to have a dog avatar? He's probably undercover. I sense treachery! FoS: Skruffs.

¬¬

Us cats have to stick together.

Unvote

:

Sir Tornado

;

vote

:

Capricious

.

Mod edit: tag fixed by request.

[Elmo]

Unvote

:

Capricious

,

vote

:

Rotten Snitch

.

[Elmo]

That's not why I voted him, cow.

[Elmo]

I got accused for buddying-up once because I said I was amused by someone's signature. So I'm not massively wild about this kinda deal, especially when Zindy is, you know,

nice

. Sir T, why do you think it's a scumtell, as opposed to null?

[Elmo]

Prod avoidance post here. Why are you bitching about being at L-2 when you're still voting yourself? Hurr?

FoS

:

hasdgfas

,

Andycyca

from a while ago, anyway. Eh. I can't remember why, right now.

*pokes Sir T with a stick* I didn't ask if buddying-up was a tell or not, I asked why you thought it was a scumtell from Zindaras in this particular situation, knowing full well what you know about his propensity to do that regardless of his alignment.

[Elmo]

Unvote, Vote: Andycyca

:goodposting:

Snitch, you going to put a real vote on anyone? Ever?

[Elmo]

Unvote

:

Rotten Snitch

,

vote

:

Andycya

wagon wagon wagon

[Elmo]

I think RS is pretty scummy at the moment. I especially don't like his responses.

the vagueness is overwhelming =O

[Elmo]

Mizzy: Eh. It's self-evident that I didn't give a reason for voting Andy. Why is Sir Tornado voting Snitch? It kinda looks a lil' like he's given a reason, but he hasn't. And I don't like that. So I'd like him to spell it out for us.

• If the game goes to night due to a deadline, there won't be a lynch. Someone has to consciously place a hammer.

Would like to point this out. With this posting rate, we're liable to end d1 without a lynch when the deadline kicks in, which is pretty much the end of tomorrow. So, uh, wagons plz?

People I arbitrarily dun' like: andy, cow, Sir T, Snitchiepoos

[Elmo]

24 hours until the "ya gotta post!" deadline thing starts.

Mea culpa on the cruising. I'll try and, you know, actually do something when I wake up. I'd go for anyone on my list from before for lynchin' purposes.

[Elmo]

Capricious's nightkill speculation feels more like trying to randomly get conversation started than anything scummy. I happen to be reading through Calvin & Hobbes where PJ makes a similar sort of comment at the start, perhaps that colours my perception a little, but it still feels quite innocuous to me.

Virtually all of the exchange between Skruffs and Zindaras looks pointless. Sorry!

Snitch's attitude in 44 bugs me. Not self-voting, the way he's so easily influenced by Mizzy's comment; he wagons someone, Mizzy tosses out some random comment with a vote, and Snitch immediately unvotes and votes himself. That just seems really... overcautious, like he'll agree with anything, even to the extent of voting himself, if it'll let him fit in. Good enough for page 2 vote, certainly.

I'm not sure what to make of Sir T jumping on Capricious. I've said that I don't agree with Sir T's assertion that Zindaras was buddying up - I'm not really sure if I find Sir T scummy for it, though. I can see how someone looking at Zindaras from his point of view might see it that way, but I have trouble believing that a) Sir T'd think Zindaras (GoodScum™) would be that blatant about it, and b) not seeming to seriously consider the idea it's a null tell. "He did it last game where he was scum" seems an unusually shallow piece of reasoning from Sir T, although I haven't played with you very much, I suppose; maybe I don't have the measure of you at the moment.

Mizzy says, wow, semi-serious votes on page 3? Which I can understand. If someone was jumping up and down calling obvscum on page 3, you'd figure they were way overconfident. Interesting is the fact that a bunch of people seem to imply something she didn't say, here; I don't think this is some kind of request for permission to slack off. I really have trouble seeing how this, specifically, is supposed to be scummy; the whole "oh, I don't know what to do" thing tends to be scummy, but I don't think that's what she said. So I kind of have a problem with hasdgfas's vote for Mizzy, it feels unnatural.. it doesn't seem the kinda thing I'd expect someone to give a vote for. Andycya jumps on as well, stating the obvious with his vote. I like that less than cow's, but I like neither of them very much.

I don't necessarily think this was Mizzy's intent, but if it hasn't been pointed out already, the discussion about the flavour makes for great rolefishing. Say, hypothetically, we've got a cop who's told they will receive a "werewolf / not werewolf" result on someone they investigate. You can see how it's hard for them to speculate 'safely' on this subject. I don't really see much point in discussing it now, although it's an interesting idea in a vacuum, I have to admit.

Zindy thinks we should be voting Capricious. Eldarad suddenly tags along, saying he was "just about to call Capricious out", except he didn't (for some unknown reason) in his post shortly before this, and nothing's changed since then. I don't like that; that feels opportunistic. hasdgfas unvotes Mizzy for no apparent reason, and says he's

this

close to jumping on the Capricious wagon, although straight after he admits "I didn't have a good, solid reason to get you to that point". Grate.

Seriously, I don't see where Capri connects you, and the divergence of opinions between Capri and Y looks like distancing as much as the Capri/Cow pair.

This I do not understand in the slightest. What makes it look like distancing?

Snitch's post 131 strikes me as oddly directed, or at least content-free. I don't quite know if that's an artifact of his style or deliberate. Andy jumps on Snitch in 140, to bring him up to L-2. Really weak reasons; 1) Snitch has said "I'm not contributing much because I'm new" 2) "Why would I have any reason to overly vindicate myself? I have done nothing wrong to suggest it." stinks of WIFOM. Well, for the first point, Snitch

is

a newbie, and he seems to be trying. If he's lurking or something and using his inexperience as some kind of excuse, that's scummy, but I don't agree that's what's happening here. It's just a fairly neutral observation, from my point of view. The second, well, for starters: WIFOM is bad logic. Bad logic is dumb. Being dumb is not somehow scummy in and of itself. That said, it's not actually WIFOM, as far as I can see; if someone said I was trying to 'vindicate' myself, and there's no obvious reason that I'd need to, I'd point that out. Now, WIFOM is simply bad logic, there's no reason that it's inherently scummy, and the subsequent "oh, he's using WIFOM logic, trying to muddy the waters, he's so anti-town!" reeks, to be perfectly honest. hasdgfas is 158 strikes me as commenting on the issue without actually taking a stance as to whether it's a scumtell or not.

RS, please remember I didn't vote you because "you're a newbie". I did it because you defended yourself by saying your newbiness is a reason for not contributing. AND for adding WIFOM and a blatant OMGUS.

:extremelybadposting:

Time passes. eldarad pops up to push Capricious, again, but would consider voting Snitch, but not Andy. (If Andy's scum and Snitch+Capricious are town, please speedlynch eldarad.) Zindaras posts. Woo. Times passes; Andy gets off the now slowing RS wagon for no apparent reason, but with the proviso that Snitch might be scum again later. Dun' like.

I think the majority of the wagon on Snitch seems to be caused by weak application of logic. I don't get massively good vibes from him, though, so I figure I could live with lynching him. Deffo prefer to be killing Andy, though. I quite like Capricious, actually. I don't get why the wagon on him developed, but I don't really want to vote for him today, although I probably will if we look to be headed for an impasse. Looking at what I've just written, actually, eldarad needs more attention, but that's probably something for tomorrow. Y is also somewhat under the radar, but (oddly) not in a way that makes me feel particularly uncomfortable. Hrm hm.

"feel" is the best and only basis there is.

Not in the habit of answering other people's questions for them, but I agree with this, I think. To some limited extent, anyway.

Mod

: Could we please have a vote count if we're not on a new page by the time you see this? Thanks.

[Elmo]

This is me posting for the purposes of the deadline mechanic ;o

Skruffs needs to stop being such a silly sausage.

[Elmo]

People, post something.

[Elmo]

Yeah, we need another 2 people to post in a little under 3 hours, or the day ends with no lynch.

[Elmo]

The boundary between 24 hour blocks is 3am GMT. (You can check what the time in GMT is here, if needed.) We went into deadline starting at Wed Mar 19, 2008 3 am. I'm just going to use letters for the blocks, which so far are:

Block A: Wed 19th 3:00 am - Thurs 20th 3am
Block B: Thurs 20th 3am - Fri 21st 3am

We're now in block B. The first post is in this block B was at March 20th 4:28 am, which was my post 259. I posted zomg post something in post 261, at March 20 11:51 pm, which is a little over 3 hours until deadline. Since then, a bunch of people have posted, such that me, Skruffs, Capricious, Zindaras, Y, and eldarad have posted in Block B, so we're okay for now. But for example Andy hasn't posted in this 24 hour block, no; Ether's post 250 concerned Block A, and was posted at March 19th 2:25 pm.

The next block will be what I'll call block C, which is Fri 21st 3am - Sat 22nd 3am.

Maybe that makes it clearer? I am still somewhat scared by the prospect of a no lynch.

[Elmo]

No lynch would definitely be bad, but the only person I'd be happy lynching is Capricious because he hasn't really contributed as much as I think he's capable of.

What makes you think that? That is a weak, weak reason for a vote, no? Have you played with him before?

[Elmo]

post

[Elmo]

Oooh. Hi Yos.

Skruffs is still my main suspect for trying to make facts about who must be scum without a real basis

Examples?

Capri still strikes me as silly townie. As far am I'm concerned, the self-voting near deadline is neutral at

worst

; I could quite reasonably interpret it as a towntell. Um. It's mostly gut, to be perfectly honest; the things I remember are his Andycyca vote and his comment on me (buddying up proviso notwithstanding) that felt genuine.

It's more of a I'm confident of my calls that it might actually be beneficial to lynch me to prove I am town kind of thing.

Assume you're 100% confirmed town, right now. Now what? As far as I can see, no-one's going to be following your calls, right now.

Oddly enough, if Capri expects to get lynched today or tommorow, I could see Capritown deciding that lynching himself is better for the town then a no-lynch, and I can't imagine capriscum ever deciding that lynching himself is better then a no lynch. Unless he's capriscum pulling a WIFOM thingy here.

SOMEONE SEES THE LIGHT!

Capri, are you bored in this game? Why are you still self-voting?
Eldarad, hasdgfas, Skruffs, I'd like ze case on Capri as justification for your votes from each of you.
Snitch, Andy: this is not the time to not be voting. WHO DO YOU PEOPLE WANT DEAD?

Mizzy: Mislynch is pretty much always better than no lynch, as long as we actually get some info out of it.

[Elmo]

Yeah, I want more detail and/or responses. It's like:
1) he tries to say as little as possible while seeming to contribute - I don't get how this is particularly true of him, although I kinda see where you're coming from
2) his comment on my comment - He's explained this, far as I can see
3) self-vote - I have

no idea

how this is supposed to be a scumtell
4) saying we should lynch Andy without any reasoning - he said "I voted for Andycyca for being scum attacking easy target Rotten Snitch town." which seems fine to me.
5) the "feel" thing - this seems fine to me as well. Why's it supposed to be scummy?
6) something about his logic being scumlogic - This is too vague to mean anything, give an example or something.

So yea. Moar.

[Elmo]

Hmm. Yos, what do you think of Y and Andy? I was happy with my vote on Snitch, and then Andy had to go and be scum, and now I'm all antsy about moving back.

[Elmo]

can I has deadline extend plz k thx

eldarad: That's a nice bunch of words; I still have little idea why you think he's scum, though. Like, a couple places, you say stuff 'reeks of scum', but don't give any detail.

Jumps on Y's mention of investigative roles,

but completely misrepresents/misunderstands what was said. Just reeks of scum

That's kinda odd. You say he misrepresents/misunderstands, like you're not sure which, but that obviously allows for the possibility of him misunderstanding, and I don't see how misunderstanding is a scumtell. I can't find any reason as to why it's more likely he was misrepresenting, here.

That and his self-voting. Not self-voting in general, this specific instance of self-voting - why's it a scumtell?

[Elmo]

Hmm. Yos, what do you think of Y and Andy?

This.

Capri, why is this "the plan"? I mean, assuming you're lynched as town, I don't see anyone doing anything differently based on that guidance afterwards. Also, you wants to answer Yos, yaus?

[Elmo]

Um. Andy's vote on Snitch and behaviour around Capri (I think?) irks me; I had more than that, but I can't call it to mind right now. With Y.. I don't know, really. Zindy said "he feels off", I only really have a vague feeling at the moment.. I guess he doesn't seem to have engaged with the game much, and I don't really dig Skruffs being his main suspect at this point. I'm just curious as to what you think, I guess. Ugh, off to bed for me.

[Elmo]

Mizzy: Think that's about Skruffs.
Zindy: c'os I agreed with you. I think.
Eldy: I think I said it was mostly gut.. I just can't really see anyone acting the way he's doing as scum, it doesn't feel faked to me. I dunno, I can't articulate it very well; I read about three pages of one of his other games without knowing his alignment and had pretty much the same vibe, he was town there. *shrug*

[Elmo]

I quite like the deadline mechanic, but I can't really see what more is going to be said, at the moment, and there's no point posting "hi guys" oneliners indefinitely. Assuming requisite numbers of people actually want to kill him (and I think they do), someone needs to tell Capri to claim or die with his next post and mean it. I don't even want him lynched, but no-one seems inclined to do anything else today, so whatever.

*apathy*

I am playing Simcity and finding the experience more fulfilling than 83% of my mafia games. I will be sure to keep you posted on the details as long as day 1 continues.

[Elmo]

Why haven't we killed anyone yet?

I am experimenting with weird combinations of subways and buses. For reasons passing understanding, buses are modelled as moving faster than cars, and the less wealthy sims love both of them.

[Elmo]

And to add to the whole ultimatum vibe of this post, I'm not posting again in-thread Today until at least one of those people have answered all four questions.

Oooh. Interesting! Also, yeah, it's Simcity 4; I snaffled a copy from a bargin bin, complete with the traffic addon. 'tis grood.

I don't want to lynch Capri, no, but I've felt for a while that the day is inevitably going to end with his lynch unless he claims something that will dissuade people. Perhaps in the context of this game that's a self-fulfilling prophesy, but out of a whole bunch of times that seem similar to now, the person in question's been lynched every time, seemingly regardless of what I did. It seems more connected with people having a target and not looking at new possibilities; there's simply not a lot of useful stuff happening apart from Capri, because like half of the players are busy wailing on him. So now there's no real potential for another wagon because everyone's already occupied; rinse and repeat until deadline. I'm not honestly sure how healthy it is to have someone hanging around who everyone (for some definition of everyone) thinks is scum, anyway.

Seriously, enough failure. Claim ffs and hammer him if he doesn't in his next post.

[Elmo]

Pretty sure we're in twilight. I avoided posting and am now because

When a player has the majority of the votes at a single point, it is dead (unless it isn't) and the game goes to twilight.

No one may post in twilight.

[Elmo]

I was only following along very occasionally. Hrm, 3/4.. I thought Mizzy was town, oops. I called Eldarad day 1, I called Zindaras after reading his first post day 2 (hi Patrick), and the next time I read it was when Yos was pointing out Y's distancying. All pointless, because I was dead, but fun practise. Blah.

It was a good idea, I like it. It would probably have been fun to play; certainly I'd play an simplified open variant of it, I think. I'm not sure if I would ever have made the leap required.. I did think there was something funny going on, but I didn't feel there was enough information to do anything about it day 1.

The deadline mechanic was a good idea. The two main issues seem to be one-liners and having to gamble on other people being active. Personally, I'd rather like to steal a revised version: There is a grace period of X weeks. After that, if there is a day in which less than half the players have posted content, an absolute one week deadline is imposed. What constitutes "content" is arbitrarily determined by the mod. Actually, if I mod anything again, I'll probably use this

I'd be most curious to see the daytalk. Did the mafia consider twilight-claiming the fact that they did not have a kill when one of them was lynched?