Mini 574: Portal Mafia: HUGE SUCCESS

[populartajo]

/confirm. My first non newbie game. Be patient, kay?

[populartajo]

Welcome to the Big Leagues, kid.

Thx. But, OMGUS

Vote : Incognito

FoS: Flameaxe and M&M.

[populartajo]

What's the thinking behind this pair of FoSes?

Pretty simple. M&M is the first guy to vote for a reason. And Flameaxe, he knows I hate him.
Add Gorrard and Your Worst Nightmare to the list.
Also, unvote. My random powers are wrong.

[populartajo]

yeah, Im a newbie

unvote

[populartajo]

I appreciate this but how do you already know that your random powers are wrong?

I think they are wrong, arent they?

It's true. He hates me.

Lies

You certainly have that affect on people.

I knew I wasnt alone.

unvote

I like your contributions so far.

Arrow Jokevote = not as much attention paid to post

What? Were we joking?

My joke post was the first vote of the game. Yours was the 4th vote on the scotmany wagon. Are they the same? I think not.

I agree, but its a 4th vote. Its pretty muck like L-2 someone at the newbie leagues.
Im expecting the VC to vote. Yep, geting paranoid about doing stupid things and too lazy to count the votes.

[populartajo]

Bleh, VCs dont vote.

[populartajo]

In this case, they were wrong, yes. My point for asking though was how were you already able to determine that they were wrong? Did I do something in the thread already to prove this to you?

Yep, read your posts. How do we call this feeling? Mmm, townie?

Tajo, did you really think you were alone?

Of course not, but I never knew I wasnt

that

alone.

[populartajo]

Is it scummy to agree with what

all

Miztef and Incognito have just posted?
I dont think so.
Now, SirTornado, it's impossible to not have a single though on what's happening here.
And to add an idea, I was thinking in a possible connection between Flameaxe, Gorrard and Scotmany trying to set traps to some overeactive players (M&M and YourWorstNightmare). But if you told me to pick a group I'd definitely pick the reacters.
Is there anyone lurking? I was used to check if 7 players were participating, but there's so many people here.

And Mod

, I unvoted a million years ago.

[populartajo]

Im not defending Incognito, but I have a bad feeling about scotmany and Flameaxe. Oh, the irony. They seem to imply that Incognito's vote is scummy for not knowing SirT's usual style.
I can see lurking as a style but when you dont comment something at this satte of the game then you're not scumhunting, you're just waiting for something else. IMO, I agree antitownie=/scum, but antitownie players dont help us much and should be suspected because they very well could be mafia.

[populartajo]

Sorry for not posting before, this game goes too quick for posting with the same rate I was used to in newbie games.
Anyway, it seems that many people like the Gorrard lycnh, but to the promoters of this event, besides the V/LA situation and the YWN discusion, do you see any other particular scummy action?

I still don't get why whether he is an alt or not is all that important. I think that people generally create alts because, more often than not, they want to try out a new style of playing. So, even if he is an alt, it doesn't help us too much to find out how his original account played.

Why do I have the feeling that everyone has alts?

populartajo - Neutral, none of his posts stood out as scummy or protown

Yey, neutral!

Sorry for attempting to prove a point. I wasn't aware that was impossible

Have you ever proven one?

I read over Patrick's case against Gorrad and found myself nodding along with his interpretation of events. I won't be moving my vote to Gorrad just yet but it does bother me that Gorrad set up things so simply as "Who lies? Scum lie. I could feel the lynch unfold." when things aren't always as clear-cut as the way he seemed to portray. It also bothers me that he hasn't bothered to comment on anything else since the YWN discussion died down dramatically despite the fact that other events have happened since that point.

Totally agree. The only thing I dont like about this is that you and Patrick seem to be strangely connected and pretty active lately with this lynch. You could be active townies, but if Gorrard is town then IWGMEOY.

Been playing Brawl, and have only skimmed the last bit. I'll try for a reread in the next day or so, but no promises. My schedule's mostly full till Sunday.

Hey, you can love Brawl, but mafia is pretty jealous, you see?

see where Patrick is going with this so I'll prematurely FoS: Miztef. I've been getting some strange buddy-up vibes from him anyway.

Again?

I think if Gorrad does not wish to post until after deadline, I'd be a bit more inclined to lynch him. It doesn't take that long to post a few lines, even if it isn't too much it's better then none.

Add this guy to the list of suspects if Gorrard comes up town.
............
Basically I agree with a Gorrard lynch. I havent liked for a while and his buddys (Flameaxe and scotmany) seem to have taken a vacation to brawl lands.

But, I'd like a VC before, please.

[populartajo]

*Shrug* we've agreed over a few things, but that's hardly a rare occurence in a game of mafia (and last time we played together, Incog and I were sharing the same brain for a while). That on it's own isn't usually good enough evidence to be drawing a connection between two players. (And note that in a post of yours, you stated that you agreed with absolutely everything Incognito and Miztef had said). As for being active, it's absolutely necessary when we have 2 week deadlines.

Am I guilty for finding a possible connection? I should add that I agreed with some things posted at that time, it sounded good as many noted, but that doesnt mean they could be tricking me and that I have to believe everything they say.

'm a bit uncomfortable with the way you seem to be throwing suspicion on all the players currently voting Gorrad if Gorrad turns up town, whilst also saying that you'd be happy with a Gorrad lynch. It feels a bit like you're already setting up future lynches.

Uncomfortable? Why? Dude, everyone is suspicious by default, some people feel townie others feel scummy, but that doesnt mean they are town or scum 100%. I've said before, the reacters are scummier than the ones who provoke reactions, but if we lynch an innocent reacter then there are

big

possibilities of finding scum in a provoker. I

never

said you'd be automatically scum.

Are you saying you've been suspicious of Gorrad for a while now? I got the impression you've been much more suspicious of YWN. Where did that suspicion go?

Where other's have gone. And you can find my Gorrad case in some posts of mine. Are you lazy? So am I.

You seem to be casting some suspicion towards three people in these series of snippets (me, Patrick, and Miztef) and basing these suspicions off of this premise that since we agree about one person (Gorrad), we're likely to be scum together if Gorrad turns up town.

Mmm, why do I have the feeling that Ive already said this.

Dude, everyone is suspicious by default, some people feel townie others feel scummy, but that doesnt mean they are town or scum 100%.

I dislike this because very early on a number of people agreed on suspicions about Your Worst Nightmare but you had absolutely nothing to say about the agreement that arose at that time. It's only now that this agreement falls on Gorgon that you seem to be voicing some concern.

Of course I did. I said I agree with you. Your case was good, and Patrick has a good question for you, where's that case?

But with your most recent post, you seem to be contradicting your original viewpoint. Can you explain this inconsistency? Can you also explain why you were worried about looking scummy at all?

No contradiction here. No inconsistency. And no worries. Diferent situations.
Patrick, Incognito, why are you taking my suspicions so serious. Why am I guilty for suspecting you in case any of your targets come up townie tomorrow?

[populartajo]

You're mostly following here. I don't know if it makes you scum or not, but it's noted.

Im following good cases. You too. And I think Ive given town some new perspectives in some players. If we concentrate in just 3 players out of 12, then if we're wrong with a lynch we can have some relations, interactions, etc.

You seem to like exagerating. I know you didn't say that any pushers on Gorrad would be automatically scum if Gorrad is town. I said that I didn't like the way you seem to be throwing suspicion on all the Gorrad voters;

So you're taking notes about me for following but when I speak my mind you dont like it. Ok, you can disagree with what Im saying but Im not just following and my posts dont seem memorable to you becuase they are about you. Great coincidence.

don't think I've been taking them too seriously. But if someone throws suspicion on you with logic that you disagree with, it's fair enough to point it out right? If anything I think you're the one who's overreacting. I only mildly accused you at most, mainly I wanted to get a better feel for what you're thinking in this game, because at the time, none of your posts were very memorable to me.

Overeaction? Not at all. I simply said that we should be looking at some guys if we lynch wrong today and then Incongito and yoursef

mildly

accused me of it. In this case, the overeaction is simply yours.

[populartajo]

EBWOPBIAD
When is the deadline?

[populartajo]

Sorry for the inactivity, this game deserves more attention that I expected and I really want to answer everything related to me. Lets start.

When did Patrick ask me that?

He never did. I was just throwing the question to you.

I'd suggest that you explain the inconsistency instead of giving these slippery types of answers before I become tempted to label you as scummy.

What inconsistency? I dont find any.

You're not guilty for suspecting me; it's the way you've laid down these suspicions that makes me suspicious of you. It reminds me very closely of something you mentioned early on, which led me to believe that you may have implied knowledge that I'm a townie (I've underlined it):

Pretty simple. M&M is the first guy to vote for a reason. And Flameaxe, he knows I hate him.
Add Gorrard and Your Worst Nightmare to the list.
Also, unvote. My random powers are wrong.

Dude, Im simply suspecting. Whats so wrong with that? You cant see what I see, we dont have the same opinions on scumtells, call it whatever you want. The fact that you disagree with my suspicions (prob because they're after you) or the way I put them in the table doesnt make me scummy, as it opens new perspectives in a game near a deadline. Simple as that.
Abput my random powers.
a)it was a joke
b) i thought we had already solved that.

he way you've attempted to connect Patrick with me and Miztef if Gorrad comes up town seems like you again may have some implied knowledge that Gorrad is town and you're attempting to lay down the carpet for your attack tomorrow. It doesn't look good to me.

I can see where you are going but its wrong. I simply said that you guys as scum can be a possibility we cant dismiss. I never said, wow those guys are scum, lynch them.

Gunsmith (can see if people have the ability to kill).

No counterclaim. I had no idea this role existed.

With deadline approaching, I have no problem switching my vote to my #2 suspect. This would be the L-1 vote.
Unvote, Vote: Gorrad

I'm buying the claim for now. Gorrad's night choices need to be evaluated before I see Gorrad as confirmed town. Now I'm back to my #1 suspect.
Unvote, Vote: flameaxe

Pattern?

Hi. Stating something doesn't make it correct. Explain how I overreacted and why my reaction wasn't normal to you

Mmmm. Read above.

Hi

Hi, enjoying the cruise?

[populartajo]

Populartajo, I find it irritating how you seem to be tagging on the, "Hey guys, chill, I wasn't attacking you that hard" disclaimer onto alot of what you say rather than giving a straight answer

Answer to what? Really, ask me any questions (or quote them) and Ill give you an answer.
And it isnt a disclaimer. Its just simple, why are you guys suspecting me if the only thing I did was comment in possible suspicions. What about if we're wrong today? How can we find the truth? Easy, lets suspect the ones who were so in favor of doing the wrong thing.
And before you say, "OMG, you said that, you're scum", Im saying lets suspect, not lets lynch.
Fine?

This is a silly evasive thing to say coming up to deadline. He's clearly explained what he thinks the inconsistency is in your play. Now, you might not agree with him, and you might have a reason why you say the two situations were different, but it's pretty obvious what he wants explaining, and this answer looks almost deliberately obtuse.

Why are you basing your suspicions in a conversation and in a current disagreement with another player? I havent seen him asking about this quote of mine. I dont see any inconsestincy and if he wants to ask then let him ask me, Ill be happy to answer.

I don't know if you're scum or you just have a playstyle that drives me nuts, but I don't like it.

Its prob the playstyle. Im still trying to define it. For now, I dont like something, I throw it at the table.

Vote: populartajo. Who do you think is a good lynch today?

WARNING. Theory time;:
Pick one of the followings groups. Big possibility of clearing the group if any of them comes up town. At this moment, and at the rate we're going, I think that we wont lynch a scum today, but lets try to pick the best lynch for today.
Group A : Patrick, Incognito, Miztef
Group B : Flameaxe, Gorrad, Scotmany, maybe Sir Tornado
Group C : M&M, YourWorstNightmare
Group D: Jester and Ether (still dont have a read on them)
You can add this to the current schedule of town or simply ignore it, but I think at this point of the game is a pretty interesting suggestion.
............

I disagree with the above and have a much more sinister read of populartajo. After reading through what populartajo mentioned around the time of the Gorrad-wagon, I don't get the feeling that he was attempting to intimidate anyone off of his wagon at all - I feel like he was ready and willing to lend his support to it:

I was willing to lend my support to it, I found it a decent bandwagon for reasons stated but I simply wanted a VC before voting. Is it wrong to ask for a vote count? I dint know it.
If I really wanted him lynched I simply could have written vote:Gorrad and it would have been fine. But, now you're suspecting me for asking VCs and not voting him? Really?

[populartajo]

*HEAD-DESK* *HEAD-DESK*
No comment.

Time for unvoting, I guess. Any more questions or doubts?

I don't think that this these groupings can clear anyone.

I see where you (and others) are going. Let me explain this grouping.
a) First of all, its obviously not 100% accurate and is going to varya ccording to the course of the game. Of course I can be wrong, like with Gorrad, assuming we're believing his claim. I should have added in that group, "Gorrad is an special case since we're puting him in the town side"
b) This list is based in some interactions D1. You can read my posts to find some.
c) This list is not based in similarities in the game. Simply, its made of interactions and bizarre agreements that pinged my scumdar. Like Flameaxe and Scotmany going hard against M&M, or Incognito and Patrick going hard against everything that moves, or M&M and YWN going after their lynchers.
d) As I said, we can simply ignore it. It was only a suggestion and it'll be in my notes for the time necessary.

I find C. most likely, then B. minus myself, then D., then A. I also like how you left yourself out of all those groups then asked people for opinions.

Duh. Why would I put myself in my own scumhunting analysis?

I don't see how players who have similarities in the game so far would all be town if one of them in the group is town. For example in Group B, if Gorrad is protown gunsmith, I can easily see at least one the other three relatively inactive players as scum.

Good point.

[populartajo]

Tajo: good lynch for today, there has been inconsistencies in his play and evidence for scummy behavior.

Again, what inconsistencies? what scummy behavior?
Im not a good lynch. seriously. You came late to the party.

I'm not sure if I like the tajo lynch yet, but deadline is approaching rapidly, so I would be willing to go there.

Pattern? Can you explain what do

you

think, whats

your

case against me?

[populartajo]

'm much less consistent as town for the simple reason that I have very little idea what I'm doing. When I'm scum I know exactly what I should be doing. I just assumed that's how it is with most people.

There's something I strongly dislike about this post. I dont know what yet. I sincerely believe miztef is scummier than mm but deadline is kicking our asses.

Unless you think No lynches are good?

No I dont.
Conclusion: M&M is not the perfect lynch for the day, but its not a bad one, though. Ill keep my groupy list just for me, as there's always some people that think everything should be 100% accurate to find it helpful. If you want to know what do I think about the possible results and new groups you'll have to ask me.

Vote : M-M.

Let him claim.

[populartajo]

Bleh, thats how you welcome newbies?

[populartajo]

Yey, I win.

WARNING. Theory time;:
Pick one of the followings groups. Big possibility of clearing the group if any of them comes up town. At this moment, and at the rate we're going, I think that we wont lynch a scum today, but lets try to pick the best lynch for today.
Group A : Patrick, Incognito, Miztef
Group B : Flameaxe, Gorrad, Scotmany, maybe Sir Tornado
Group C : M&M, YourWorstNightmare
Group D: Jester and Ether (still dont have a read on them)

I was so wrong than it hurts.
Shame I was never here on time to defend myself, but luckily you lynched me and not Machiavellan.