Mini 572 - Packrats (game over)
-
-
Mizzy Furry
- Furry
- Furry
- Posts: 2536
- Joined: November 28, 2007
- Location: Leominster, MA
Pfft, I go do that work thing, come back, and there's activity. Really, the nerve, starting without me!
Vote: Skruffsbecause his avatar stole my fingertappies.PokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."
Muerrto: "Mizzy is my hero and I wanna be like her when I grow younger <3"-
-
Mizzy Furry
- Furry
- Furry
- Posts: 2536
- Joined: November 28, 2007
- Location: Leominster, MA
But wait, wouldn't cats be pro-town in a game where the scummers are canine?Capricious wrote:Add Elmo to the cat mafia list, I've cracked this open!PokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."
Muerrto: "Mizzy is my hero and I wanna be like her when I grow younger <3"-
-
Mizzy Furry
- Furry
- Furry
- Posts: 2536
- Joined: November 28, 2007
- Location: Leominster, MA
Elmo will tell you that I have a weakness for all things cute and fluffy, so I can't very well allow kittehs to be targeted, now can I?Zindaras wrote:
Great minds think alike.Mizzy wrote:
But wait, wouldn't cats be pro-town in a game where the scummers are canine?Capricious wrote:Add Elmo to the cat mafia list, I've cracked this open!
I like you already.
*high-five*PokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."
Muerrto: "Mizzy is my hero and I wanna be like her when I grow younger <3"-
-
Mizzy Furry
- Furry
- Furry
- Posts: 2536
- Joined: November 28, 2007
- Location: Leominster, MA
The plot thickens! Perhaps the mayor went to buy a cat. <3 Kitties!Y wrote:Last time Capricious tried to get me killed he was scum, so...
Besides, felines (Which are not the same as canines, Capricious) are much better. I think we should have a cat instead of that missing mayor.PokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."
Muerrto: "Mizzy is my hero and I wanna be like her when I grow younger <3"-
-
Mizzy Furry
- Furry
- Furry
- Posts: 2536
- Joined: November 28, 2007
- Location: Leominster, MA
Clearly, it's just that noteworthy of an avatar. You should be proud!Skruffs wrote:Mizzy, Elmo, and eldarad:
All three of you are fossing and voting me because of my avatar?
If you are going to try and find a way to badly bandwagon on someone, you should really confer with your buddies and find *DIFFERENT* *REASONS* for it.
But I don't like that a wagon IS forming, especially on a kitteh.
Unvote. Semi-Random Vote: Rotten Snitchfor joining the wagon after it stopped being the cool thing to do.PokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."
Muerrto: "Mizzy is my hero and I wanna be like her when I grow younger <3"-
-
Mizzy Furry
- Furry
- Furry
- Posts: 2536
- Joined: November 28, 2007
- Location: Leominster, MA
This is also true for me, as I don't believe I have directly met you before. But I am watching you play in a different game, so that's something, I suppose Plus, KITTEH!Skruffs wrote:Also:
Vote: Eldarad
Last person on the wagon, I don't think we've ever met so I am wondering why you have a vested interest in an avatar you haven't seen before.PokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."
Muerrto: "Mizzy is my hero and I wanna be like her when I grow younger <3"-
-
Mizzy Furry
- Furry
- Furry
- Posts: 2536
- Joined: November 28, 2007
- Location: Leominster, MA
Damn, we went from fun little random votes to "I think such and such is scum and here's why." What the hell?It's page 3.I don't think anyone has any basis to think anyone is scum yet.
By the way, this made me lol, seriously. I snorted soda.
Y wrote:It was a joke, nothing useful (snip)
No shit, sherlockCapricious wrote:This has to be a jokePokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."
Muerrto: "Mizzy is my hero and I wanna be like her when I grow younger <3"-
-
Mizzy Furry
- Furry
- Furry
- Posts: 2536
- Joined: November 28, 2007
- Location: Leominster, MA
Actually, I didn't say to throw the pages away, now did I? Good job putting words in my mouth so early. I adore random voting stages for the information they give us, but I can't believe that anyone would know that any person is or isn't scum yet. How could they? Just by pure meta, really, and pure meta cases are bullshit when they have so little to go on in this game.hasdgfas wrote:Mizzy wrote:It's page 3.I don't think anyone has any basis to think anyone is scum yet.unvote, Vote: Mizzy
You can definitely find reasons for early votes. You can't just throw early pages out the window because "it's the random voting stage." If someone doesn't find something out of it, it will never turn into anything useful.PokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."
Muerrto: "Mizzy is my hero and I wanna be like her when I grow younger <3"-
-
Mizzy Furry
- Furry
- Furry
- Posts: 2536
- Joined: November 28, 2007
- Location: Leominster, MA
I'm not saying we shouldn't scumhunt...I'm saying that someone who comes off as so sure of themselves as to who they think is scum already either knows something the rest of us doesn't or are playing on meta-only. Either way, I expect to see logic involved and a case. Not just empty fingerpointing.Andycyca wrote:
Just to let you know, this game is based on discussion. The earlier we start, the better. Early scumhunting doesn't mean correct scumhunting, but it certainly is protown.Mizzy wrote:Damn, we went from fun little random votes to "I think such and such is scum and here's why." What the hell?It's page 3.I don't think anyone has any basis to think anyone is scum yet.
Unvote. Vote: MizzyPokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."
Muerrto: "Mizzy is my hero and I wanna be like her when I grow younger <3"-
-
Mizzy Furry
- Furry
- Furry
- Posts: 2536
- Joined: November 28, 2007
- Location: Leominster, MA
Since when did we start speculating power roles? I'm saying that someone who says "Person x is scum" now without a case, not even with a well-presented meta case, is jumping the gun. I'm talking alignment, and not role.Rotten Snitch wrote:Mizzy I don't think it is just empty fingerpointing. The game only identifies vanilla townies. We may be correct in assuming that there is a cop, seer, or investigator who was able to get a read on someone Night-0. Although right now it may seem like empty accusations but I'm sure there could be truth behind one of them.
Just a thought.PokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."
Muerrto: "Mizzy is my hero and I wanna be like her when I grow younger <3"-
-
Mizzy Furry
- Furry
- Furry
- Posts: 2536
- Joined: November 28, 2007
- Location: Leominster, MA
Let me make my point a bit clearer. I do see your point about there being a chance of them actually knowing due to some sort of night action. However, just out and saying, "I think so-and-so is scum" without actually presenting any evidence or case doesn't really do anything. We have no way of knowing whether or not they are a power role who found valid info or if they are scum hoping to kill a townie right off the bat.
I also find it scummy that people are putting words into my mouth, assuming I'm expressing opinions that I am not, and putting pressure votes on me for questioning someone's highly-questionable post. I think they are, as it was said, just scumhunting, but that doesn't mean I have to find their approach effective or un-scummy.
So, I'm going to ask nicely...if you're trying to get a read on me or pressure me, that's fine, that is good scumhunting and I will gladly respond to any questions or comments you might have, but please don't misrepresent me.PokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."
Muerrto: "Mizzy is my hero and I wanna be like her when I grow younger <3"-
-
Mizzy Furry
- Furry
- Furry
- Posts: 2536
- Joined: November 28, 2007
- Location: Leominster, MA
No no no, that's not what I meant at all. Sorry if it came off that way. What I meant was, "How can anyone be so sure yet? Let's see some proof!" No pages in a game should ever be discounted.hasdgfas wrote:It seemed to me like you were saying "Let's not worry about the early pages" when you said:
That seems to me to be saying that the early pages don't matter because it's hard to find scum during them. While that may be true, I feel that it's important to get out of the "random voting stage" as early as possible. Saying that it's page 3 and we have no basis to think anyone is scum is, to me, like saying that those pages don't matter very much and we shouldn't pay attention to them. So any misrepresentation of you was simply because that's how I viewed your post.Mizzy wrote:Damn, we went from fun little random votes to "I think such and such is scum and here's why." What the hell?It's page 3.I don't think anyone has any basis to think anyone is scum yet.PokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."
Muerrto: "Mizzy is my hero and I wanna be like her when I grow younger <3"-
-
Mizzy Furry
- Furry
- Furry
- Posts: 2536
- Joined: November 28, 2007
- Location: Leominster, MA
Firstly, I'd like to see some of the meta information but for discussion purposes. I hope we won't try making a case out of pure meta, but I think meta here might be helpful.Skruffs wrote:I'm confused also by your "The game only identifies vanilla townies."... that strikes me as wrong, because Strappado was not a vanilla townie.
Secondarily, if the scum were allowed to kill n0, then the investigative roles were allowed to target as well.
I'd like to introduce some meta into the game regarding strappado, me, rotten snitch, zindaras, and others. I don't have to but it might be worth stimulating discussion with.
Also, I have a thought on N1 actions. It was pointed out by a couple of people that N1 night actions might have happened. We did get a N1 kill, so obviously someone was allowed to do SOMETHING. However, re-reading the background text:
"Once we disposed of them all, another brilliant man--her grandfather, incidentally--thought to plant wolfsbane all over the village. And the smell has kept the wolves out...for good."
I kind of came into this thinking that scum are werewolves based on the flavor text, but I have to wonder now if I was wrong in that assumption. I see no reason that wolfsbane would suddenly stop working, so if the scum ARE wolves, then how could they get into town to kill?
It kind of makes me remember the movie The Village where the "monsters" were actually people.
Thoughts, please? This is the first game like this (a really detailed theme game) I've played and I have no idea how much to read into the flavor text and I don't want my imagination running off with me.PokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."
Muerrto: "Mizzy is my hero and I wanna be like her when I grow younger <3"-
-
Mizzy Furry
- Furry
- Furry
- Posts: 2536
- Joined: November 28, 2007
- Location: Leominster, MA
iuSir Tornado wrote:But, neither Ether nor Sacred are playing in this game, are they? Or do you buddy up with Mizzy in all of your games too?
He and I haven't had the pleasure of playing together before now, actually.PokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."
Muerrto: "Mizzy is my hero and I wanna be like her when I grow younger <3"-
-
Mizzy Furry
- Furry
- Furry
- Posts: 2536
- Joined: November 28, 2007
- Location: Leominster, MA
EBWOP:
Sorry, kitten sat on my keyboard.Mizzy wrote:Sir Tornado wrote:But, neither Ether nor Sacred are playing in this game, are they? Or do you buddy up with Mizzy in all of your games too?iu
He and I haven't had the pleasure of playing together before now, actually.PokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."
Muerrto: "Mizzy is my hero and I wanna be like her when I grow younger <3"-
-
Mizzy Furry
- Furry
- Furry
- Posts: 2536
- Joined: November 28, 2007
- Location: Leominster, MA
I've seen lots of townies buddy up, too, though. Quite a bit, actually. So wouldn't that make it a null-tell?Sir Tornado wrote:Elmo, buddying up is generally a scum tell. If someone is overtly hostile, he is more probable to be under intense scrutiny or get lynched on D1, get inv N1, and is less likely to be followed. (yes, you can deny all you want, but it's true).PokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."
Muerrto: "Mizzy is my hero and I wanna be like her when I grow younger <3"-
-
Mizzy Furry
- Furry
- Furry
- Posts: 2536
- Joined: November 28, 2007
- Location: Leominster, MA
Firstly,FoS: Capriciousfor what I feel is attempting to direct attention on to my post, and therefor me, in what I think might have been trying to get everyone off his back. Saying he wants to discuss X without actually saying anything about X at that time bothers me. Plus, this whole Y <--> Capri conversation looks like Capri is trying to smokescreen a good bit.
Capricious:You're convinced that the scum are, in fact, werewolves. Okay, butwhyare you so convinced?PokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."
Muerrto: "Mizzy is my hero and I wanna be like her when I grow younger <3"-
-
Mizzy Furry
- Furry
- Furry
- Posts: 2536
- Joined: November 28, 2007
- Location: Leominster, MA
Could you phrase the accusation in the form of a question, please?Y wrote:FoS Mizzyfor not making much sense (Except the last question).PokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."
Muerrto: "Mizzy is my hero and I wanna be like her when I grow younger <3"-
-
Mizzy Furry
- Furry
- Furry
- Posts: 2536
- Joined: November 28, 2007
- Location: Leominster, MA
It's happened to me before that I post some sort of question or logic or possibility or what-have-you and someone who's been in the limelight in a not-so-good way has used that post of mine to divert attention off of themselves and onto me.Y wrote:Sure, why not... Why do you think any one would even think about suspecting you due to Capricious' post, when he didn't even mention your name, nor the fact that some one posted something similar to his post already?
I suppose I wouldn't be so bothered about his "Let's discuss this" if he had actually discussed it soon after without prompting. It came off to me as insincere.PokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."
Muerrto: "Mizzy is my hero and I wanna be like her when I grow younger <3"-
-
Mizzy Furry
- Furry
- Furry
- Posts: 2536
- Joined: November 28, 2007
- Location: Leominster, MA
I'm not sure what when you're asking about. I also don't see the two exchanges as distancing, either. Just my opinion, but there you have it.Andycyca wrote:Like when?
Seriously, I don't see where Capri connects you, and the divergence of opinions between Capri and Y looks like distancing as much as the Capri/Cow pair.PokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."
Muerrto: "Mizzy is my hero and I wanna be like her when I grow younger <3"-
-
Mizzy Furry
- Furry
- Furry
- Posts: 2536
- Joined: November 28, 2007
- Location: Leominster, MA
1. He had 3 votes on him that I believe were no longer random. I think that's pretty close to limelight at this point in the game.Y wrote:
1. He wasn't on the "limelight".Mizzy wrote:It's happened to me before that I post some sort of question or logic or possibility or what-have-you and someone who's been in the limelight in a not-so-good way has used that post of mine to divert attention off of themselves and onto me.
2. He asked for a discussion, not referred to your post and asked for a discussion.
2. Capri's post #104 quotes my post and says he wants to discuss it...but then doesn't without prompting.PokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."
Muerrto: "Mizzy is my hero and I wanna be like her when I grow younger <3"-
-
Mizzy Furry
- Furry
- Furry
- Posts: 2536
- Joined: November 28, 2007
- Location: Leominster, MA
I was waiting for a response to Skruffs also, but RS didn't really touch on anything I feel is helpful, so here's some food for thought:
That was a point I was trying to make before, but I think it got lost in my wording. I also think we've gleaned just about as much information from strappado's death as we are going to for the moment; we don't have a lot to go on there other than what the flavor and death text tells us.Skruffs wrote:We don't know HOW strappado was killed (shot vs ate) so that doesn't help.
I also feel that while meta can be helpful in a game, right now it's holding us back. This is more information about the outside workings of putting the game together than I wanted to know. None of it helps us and all it might do is cause problems later down the road when trying to find links between players and evidence.Skruffs wrote:The meta was that when the game was still in signups, ether (the mod) asked me about the two n00bs, rotten snitch and strappado, who i know in real life. At least one player in this game right now was in the chatroom when i 'validated' rotten snitch and strappado (This was before roles were assigned and in public) as competent players who I know and who know each other - so one of them dying could be a red herring to get me to attack R.S. or vice versa. I'm not going to use it as such, but that's the 'meta' information I wa sreferring to.
Also I saw patrick and ether promise a scum role to zindaras, but that's beside the point. >.>
I really don't like that afterthought in there of, "I saw patrick and ether promise a scum role to zindaras" because of how much crap it has the potential to create. That's like sticking a target to his back.
While I like seeing your ponderings on what we might be/have in the game, I don't see it as particularly helpful for the moment, and the rest of your post came off (to me, at least) like WIFOM waiting to happen. Putting pre-conceived notions in the town's heads about the possible alignment of players due to what happened before the game started that most of us didn't see and weren't there for is counterproductive.
As for RS, I feel like he's trying to distance himself from Skruffs, probably because of the meta info Skruffs brought up (see how unhelpful that was?) and it's already causing reactions where there might not otherwise have been. Some folks might say that's good, but I say it's completely fluff-content and does not help us scumhunt; it can only get in the way.
I also feel like RS is trying to create doubt in Skruffs where, again, he might not have otherwise and I think he's trying to vindicate himself (overly much) by casting Skruffs in the questioning light that he is.PokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."
Muerrto: "Mizzy is my hero and I wanna be like her when I grow younger <3"-
-
Mizzy Furry
- Furry
- Furry
- Posts: 2536
- Joined: November 28, 2007
- Location: Leominster, MA
I didn't; I saw it as an, "Oh, btw, he might be scum because I saw the mod promise him a scum role...but don't pay attention to me because I put an emote at the end!" kind of thing. Fluff at best and subtle hinting at worst. I really didn't like it.eldarad wrote:Is it? I thought it was a joke and didn't give it a second thought.
No, I meant the meta information. Not the game theme theory.eldarad wrote:Well, you started it with post 78:
Scum aren't the only ones who distance themselves from each other and you are experienced enough to know that. I already explained what kind of distancing I think they are doing (Skruffs and RS know each other IRL and RS seemed to be distancing himself because of that.) I have no reason to think that either is scum at the moment, and I don't actively suspect either (or I'd have darn well FoSed them.) Don't assume things. Just ask me.eldarad wrote:Mizzy, I don't really know where you stand after your last post. You said that it looks like Rotten Snitch is distancing himself from Skruffs. That suggests you think they are both scum, right?
Do you have any reason for thinking that, other than the Skruff's meta that you have just said could be misleading?
I'm attacking him for useless meta, not for flavor analysis.eldarad wrote:For my part, I think Mizzy has been rather hypocritical attacking Skruffs for talking about the flavour and the possible identity of the scum in relation to the town. I also think the point about the Zindaras joke is spurious.PokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."
Muerrto: "Mizzy is my hero and I wanna be like her when I grow younger <3"-
-
Mizzy Furry
- Furry
- Furry
- Posts: 2536
- Joined: November 28, 2007
- Location: Leominster, MA
@Rotten Snitch:The reason I feel your post responding to Skruffs was distancing was because of the over-defensive tones that your post seemed full of. I didn't say it was a bad form of distancing, but it really came off to me like you were trying to put space between him and you because he brought up knowing you IRL. Even now, you seem very defensive of this, even though I haven't accused you of anything.
I'll wait to judge until I see an answer from Skruffs, but yes, I did see that, and I didn't think it was anything to bother with. It IS unfortunate...strappado was a player character who never got to play in the game. That kinda sucks.Rotten Snitch wrote:Which is why I asked him how he meant his "That's Unfortunate" comment. Anyone could have caught that.
That's just it, you haven't done anything to warrant that kind of reaction...but I felt you were giving that type of reaction, never-the-less.Rotten Snitch wrote:"Vindicate himself (overly much)".....Why would I have any reason to overly vindicate myself? I have done nothing wrong to suggest it.
That's circular logic and I'd rather if we kept away from it. It proves nothing either way.Rotten Snitch wrote:If I was distancing myself I'd have FoS'd him or voted.PokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."
Muerrto: "Mizzy is my hero and I wanna be like her when I grow younger <3"-
-
Mizzy Furry
- Furry
- Furry
- Posts: 2536
- Joined: November 28, 2007
- Location: Leominster, MA
Rotten Snitch:I'm considering putting you at -1L because of your last two posts. Here's why:
1) Attacking someone else is not a defense for your own actions.
2) Continuously muddying the water with more WIFOM and attempting to justify doing so by saying 50% of the game is WIFOM.
3) Using slightly sarcastic questions instead of a defense for yourself.
4) Not reading (Andy gave reasons he voted you, if you had looked...so why do you keep asking for some?)
5) Continuously going back to what Skruffs said about the death of the Gaoler (we have no idea what alignment the Gaoler was as far as I know and so anything Skruffs said cannot be and never can be proven as being pro- or anti-town.)
I don't like that you keep being overly-defensive against anyone who so much as looks at you and I really don't like the fact that you keep bringing up a comment Skruffs made that doesn't make one bit of difference no matter what way he meant it. I don't feel that you are even remotely trying to scumhunt.PokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."
Muerrto: "Mizzy is my hero and I wanna be like her when I grow younger <3"-
-
Mizzy Furry
- Furry
- Furry
- Posts: 2536
- Joined: November 28, 2007
- Location: Leominster, MA
Yes, I feel that putting you at -2L is not really that dangerous and that combined with all my reasoning is legitimate reason for putting you at -1L if you can't defend yourself.Rotten Snitch wrote:I'm bitching L-2 because it was a rash move for little reasons
1. "I'm a newbie, that's why I don't contribute a lot"
2. "Why would I..." Stinks of WIFOM
Is that really reason for L-2?
Or Mizzy is that really reason for L-1?
So early in the game to jump on me when I have not said anything clearly scummy.
I understand I am still random voting me and I'll take that off when I am ready to vote but it was interesting to see how high I got huh?
BTW Mizzy your L-1 comment.. you are already voting me.
Thanks for pointing out the vote mistake on my part, I thought I had just FoSed you. I'm still pretty content with my vote.PokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."
Muerrto: "Mizzy is my hero and I wanna be like her when I grow younger <3"-
-
Mizzy Furry
- Furry
- Furry
- Posts: 2536
- Joined: November 28, 2007
- Location: Leominster, MA
No, I said I wasRotten Snitch wrote:Mizzy- I do not think you are really reading the posts
You corrected yourself and said you would put me at L-1 for your reasons.consideringputting you at -1L, but I can't anyway, so it's a moot point. I'm happy with my vote where it is; on you.
I didn't say you attacked me; I didn't actually mention anyone specifically. My point was that instead of giving a good, solid defense, you seem to choose to attack, instead. And poorly, at that.Rotten Snitch wrote:<My initial actions were responding to Skruffs. I didn't attack you because you were already randomly voting me and we were discussing I attacked Andycyca because of a weak vote and his slandering my play style>
He wasn't saying it was a scumtell, he said it wasRotten Snitch wrote:<Andycyca's vote on me was for WIFOM. I said WIFOM is half of the game and it does not justify a clear scum tell because everyone at some point does it>oneof the reasons he was voting you, and it's a reason I agree with. Adding more WIFOM to the game muddies things and is, in most case, an anti-town action.
No, but avoiding providing a defense can be seen as scummy. And yes, there is a good bit of a case against you. You should stop trying to pretend there's not one.Rotten Snitch wrote:<There was nothing to defend. I was attacking his putting me on L-2. As I have seen so far sarcasm is not a scummy thing either>
I disagree; I feel they were justified enough for reasons to put you at -2L. -2L isn't really that dangerous and I feel you're blowing it all out of proportion. I said I was CONSIDERING putting you at -1L (if I could) because of the reasons I listed earlier. Add to them an overly-defensive tone of voice and a touch of paranoia and that's an even stronger case against you.Rotten Snitch wrote:<Andycyca's reasons for putting me on L-2 were not justified. Newbie? WIFOM?
Maybe a reason to cast a vote earlier but not when there is already a bandwagon on me. As far as not reading- you misread your own comments and votes. I think this looked bad because you were willing to put me at L-1 for what? Sarcasm? Not reading? WIFOM? Bringing up a point that I think is important? I really think this is going a little too far>
It would be a really good idea to not put words in other people's mouths and stop misinterpreting them so much. It makes you look scummier.
Skruffs can defend his own points if he damned well wants to. He doesn't need you defending what he says, nor does he need you attacking what he says in the same breath. Come to think of it, this whole paragraph of yours contradicts your prior actions. You were "calling out" Skruff's comment because you thought it was questionable and now you say you're defending it? Make up your mind.Rotten Snitch wrote:<I only continuously defended my Skruffs point because you kept attacking it. I made my point and dropped it. I will however defend my opinion that subtle hints sometimes will call someone out or catch them off guard later. Also we can assume the Gaoler was good because she was killed at night (I dont think if there was a 1 shot vig they would randomly use it the first night)>
That's an opinion you have a right to have, but I don't agree with you. And actually, I accused you long before Andy did.Rotten Snitch wrote:I personally think that Andycyca is using weak accusations to jump on my bandwagon. I think this is scummy. He has not given reason enough for a vote. And now that Mizzy has accused me it will be easy for him to agree on his actions.PokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."
Muerrto: "Mizzy is my hero and I wanna be like her when I grow younger <3"-
-
Mizzy Furry
- Furry
- Furry
- Posts: 2536
- Joined: November 28, 2007
- Location: Leominster, MA
@Rotten Snitch:I don't mind if it goes back and forth, and I'll address anything you want me to. And probably some things you don't want me to.
That's like saying, "Everyone plays scum at some point so voting someone because they're scummy is ridiculous." Just because everyone does something, it doesn't make it okay.Rotten Snitch wrote:All I am saying on the WIFOM issue is that everyone at some point in the game is guilty of it. To vote me like that is ridiculous.
WIFOM, when purposely added to a game, muddies the waters for the town (and I mentioned that already) which makes it harder for town to properly scumhunt. That act is, whether or not it's meant to be, anti-town. Hence why excess WIFOM is worthy of suspicion, votes, etc.
See, you're definitely not paying attention. I said that you are avoiding defending your own actions and are instead replacing a defense by using leading and often misrepresenting questions. It also comes off to me (though this could just be my interpretation) that you are simultaneously defending and attacking Skruffs. You're confusing two completely separate points of my case against you, and I can't tell if it's on purpose or not.Rotten Snitch wrote:You say that “by avoiding providing a defense” can be seen as scummy but then in the next comment you say that my overly defensive tone and paranoia makes a strong case. So what is it? Defensive or avoiding defense what am I doing?
Paranoia? No, I just thought it was odd from the reaction I received for bringing up a point I thought was valid.
I still think this pressure is odd.
I'm not pressuring you (you already have my vote, what more can I do?) but I am expecting to see some real answers to the following questions:
1) Why won't you present valid reasoning and defensive cases for your actions when asked?
2) Why do you continue questioning a statement that Skruffs made that is not provable as pro- or anti-town and probably can never be?
3) Are you actually going to bother scumhunting any time soon?
By putting words in my mouth, I mean that you are asking leading questions as opposed to answering questions and case points I present that are a total stretch. I told you why I think you're scum, and yet you keep asking why with leading, and often misrepresenting, questions. I corrected myself once, by the way, and that's not what I'm referring to at all.Rotten Snitch wrote:Putting words in your mouth? No I have been very good about making sure I stated and corrected your own vote on me. I said that you corrected yourself many times.
The thing is, the only way you could know whether or not the "subtle hint" was anything noteworthy is if you are scum.Rotten Snitch wrote:I said I defended my point on Skruffs possibly dropping a subtle hint and I said I was defending my opinion. I was not calling out his definition of Gaoler I was calling out his tone when he said it was unfortunate. And again I never defended him against my own attack. You are putting words in my mouth now.
The fact that you keep wondering why he made that comment when it doesn't help town or not in the least bothers me. We have no idea what alignment the Gaoler was (please correct me if I am wrong) but if we don't know what his alignment was, then how are we EVER going to know until the game ends? It's a dead end. Drop it and move on.
What, you'd actually let someone use a cop out to get out of answering a question? Yes, he COULD use my arguments to answer you, but the fact is that he already answered you in the post he voted in. He gave you two good reasons that I feel are correct and justified. I'm agreeing with him, really, not the other way around.Rotten Snitch wrote:What I meant by my last comment was that I asked Andycyca for a little more detail in the reason he voted me. He has not given it yet but now if he does he will not have to use his own words to answer me. He can copy your argument against me.PokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."
Muerrto: "Mizzy is my hero and I wanna be like her when I grow younger <3"-
-
Mizzy Furry
- Furry
- Furry
- Posts: 2536
- Joined: November 28, 2007
- Location: Leominster, MA
This is very well-put and that's what I have been trying to say. WIFOM is sometimes unavoidable, but you should try and avoid it if at all possible. Pro-towners need to be able to scumhunt effectively, and the mafia's job is to muddy the waters to make scumhunting harder. It's a psychological tug of war.hasdgfas wrote:If you say something that you don't know is WIFOM and you state it, then other people can point it out. But if you throw in something purposefully, it ends up confusing the townies in a way that is similar to what mafia are trying to do. Simply, don't do that as a townie. If you do, it can be very scummy.
I'd like my scumhunting waters to be as unmuddied as much as possible and when I see someone actively adding WIFOM to the game, I WILL call them on it. There is no justification for knowingly muddying the waters.
Now that I've worn out that metaphor utterly and completely, I shall shush until there is something more to say,PokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."
Muerrto: "Mizzy is my hero and I wanna be like her when I grow younger <3"-
-
Mizzy Furry
- Furry
- Furry
- Posts: 2536
- Joined: November 28, 2007
- Location: Leominster, MA
RS:I do see a lot of your logic, actually, I just think it's not good enough in most cases.
Yes, I realize the fact that criminals leave behind clues, but even if this IS a clue, is is one that we willRotten Snitch wrote:Your whole Skruffs thing, I just don’t understand your logic
Let me make it easier by explaining my thoughts
-sometimes criminals will leave behind clues to lure the police. I feel as though the same applies to mafia, some people get a kick out of dropping subtle hints early in the game
-that was where I was going with Skruffs “That’s Unfortunate” comment.
Skruffs also wanted everyone to meta- when this didn’t bring up our history and no one stumbled on this-he brought it up himself- It seemed as though he wanted everyone to see this for a reason
-I wanted to know why?- and he responded with “I'm not actually trying to make a situation of it myself, I am merely putting this information out there so that it can be acknowledged and discarded”
-I thought this was going a little too far to simply mention and discard something-never be able to interpret. It doesn't help us. It's a distraction. We will only ever know whether the clue shows Skruffs as pro-town or anti-town when he is either dead or the game ends, neither of which give us anymore info than what we will already have.
1. I'm not agreeing with you there...most of your defense of yourself has been exactly what Andy said it was, WIFOM and noob-cover. Neither of those are viable.Rotten Snitch wrote:Real answers to the following questions:
1. I think I have presented plenty of valid reasoning and defense for my actions. Considering you are really the only one who has actively pursued me. Andycya did not actually give IMO valid reasons for his vote. Being a newbie is a random stage reason for a vote not a page 6 vote.
2. Why do I continue on the Skruffs thing… because you keep countering me on it.. I see it as a valid observation on my point- agree or disagree and move on-
3. Yes I think I am actively scum hunting. I have my FoS on IMO somewhat scummy behavior on Andycyca. He had enough time to quickly vote me and insult my game play instead of explaining himself to me so I understood his motive.
2. So basically, I keep saying that the Skruffs comment is a null-tell and you keep arguing that it's not but have no proof? How is that helpful to anyone?
3. I just don't see that Andy's action was scummy or suspect. He gave two valid reasons for voting you and then voted you. I won't answer for Andy, because I can't really and also because he already did before this (he posted not long ago) so I suggest you look there.PokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."
Muerrto: "Mizzy is my hero and I wanna be like her when I grow younger <3"-
-
Mizzy Furry
- Furry
- Furry
- Posts: 2536
- Joined: November 28, 2007
- Location: Leominster, MA
Eh, yeah, I do tend to get all self-righteous when I find something I think is scummy. I don't mean to be distracting...I'll back off a bit to let other dialog through but I still think RS is more anti- than pro-town at the moment.PokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."
Muerrto: "Mizzy is my hero and I wanna be like her when I grow younger <3"-
-
Mizzy Furry
- Furry
- Furry
- Posts: 2536
- Joined: November 28, 2007
- Location: Leominster, MA
Wow, this feels a bit out of character for you.Elmo wrote:Unvote:Rotten Snitch,vote:Andycya
wagon wagon wagonPokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."
Muerrto: "Mizzy is my hero and I wanna be like her when I grow younger <3"-
-
Mizzy Furry
- Furry
- Furry
- Posts: 2536
- Joined: November 28, 2007
- Location: Leominster, MA
Sir T's post there had more content than your "Wagon wagon wagon!" vote post. Just sayin'.Elmo wrote:
the vagueness is overwhelming =OSir Tornado wrote:I think RS is pretty scummy at the moment. I especially don't like his responses.PokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."
Muerrto: "Mizzy is my hero and I wanna be like her when I grow younger <3"-
-
Mizzy Furry
- Furry
- Furry
- Posts: 2536
- Joined: November 28, 2007
- Location: Leominster, MA
Was this sarcasm?Skruffs wrote:I"d be fine with quicklynching Zindaras. He's soooo scum, it makes my pores itch just reading his name on on the screen, and it's going to be hard for me to get over that huge glaring black spot on my scumdar while he's still alive.PokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."
Muerrto: "Mizzy is my hero and I wanna be like her when I grow younger <3"-
-
Mizzy Furry
- Furry
- Furry
- Posts: 2536
- Joined: November 28, 2007
- Location: Leominster, MA
Well, I am happy that you're being honest about it, but I do hope you'll show a good case if you expect the rest of us to believe you about his scumminess...I haven't really seen anything in this game as of yet to make me wonder about him.Skruffs wrote:Not really. Me and Zindaras have a history, a history in which he wwas factually scum every time but one. So I am trained to be suspicious of him now. I'm still posting out side of that suspicion, but as the number of players dwindle, the more likely i will be to push for his lynch.
I'm still happy with my vote, especially since RS has disappeared. Capri is also still on my list for scummy-enough-to-lynch, but I don't want to rush things and wouldloveto see more from both of them.PokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."
Muerrto: "Mizzy is my hero and I wanna be like her when I grow younger <3"-
-
Mizzy Furry
- Furry
- Furry
- Posts: 2536
- Joined: November 28, 2007
- Location: Leominster, MA
Oh for heaven's sake, this is why I hate meta. It's clouding a perfectly good game, and no matter how you look at it, clouding the game is only good for scum.FoS: Skruffsfor not leaving past grudges behind back in the games they belong in, drawing focus away from the two scum candidates, and being tunnel-visioned. Zindaras' role/alignment in other games has absolutely no baring on his role/alignment in this one. Get past it.
Capricious:What the hell were those beanpoles you tried to pass off as posts/content? There's a case against you and you're on the lynchlist of at least two people, and that's ALL you can muster? Eesh. And by the way, your opinion that my opinion is false is bullshit.PokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."
Muerrto: "Mizzy is my hero and I wanna be like her when I grow younger <3"-
-
Mizzy Furry
- Furry
- Furry
- Posts: 2536
- Joined: November 28, 2007
- Location: Leominster, MA
Heh, good try, but I DID read that and find it to be complete and utter crap. Show me a nicely laid out case against him from this game and I'd be glad to listen. So far all I see you two doing is arguing semantics and meta.Skruffs wrote: okay, but if you actually looked at my post you would see:
Mizzy just took Zindaras's "Skruffs says I'm scum because I'm always scum" quote and ran with it, and ignored everything else I said. I think that's called strawmanning, right?Skruffs wrote: So,regardless of the fact that you have been scum recently, my actual basis for suspicion on you is on your play in this game. If you tend to start bad bandwagons as town in other games, give me an example or two. But if you want me to just say "Oh it's zindaras, yay, so happy to see you" then you can forget it, I've been burned and I'm not giving you any benefits until I have a good reason to; a reason, through your actions this game, that you are not giving me.
Because I don't scold adults. I just call the shots as I see them. Honestly, I have been complaining about the meta crap in general, but (and I realize this is a bit hypocritical, trust me) personality is important to games to me, too. I play the same way in all my games, and when you play with certain players who have a very bold personality, it's important to keep that in mind.Skruffs wrote:And if you want me to drop the meta, why didn't you scold Zindaras for:
"Sir T obviously fails to acknowledge my personality, don't know if it's scum stubbornness or simply town paranoia."
I don't really find what he's done as scummy...it's just my opinion. What I find scummy is your quip earlier about, "Ooh, he was promised a scum role" followed by this "I don't trust him because he's always scum."Skruffs wrote:This is why I said he is playing like a superstar: He's tried to use his *undescribed* personality as a reason to change people's opinions at least twice so far this game; and I don't like that. And I really don't like how you are being two faced about this, MIzzy.
I don't mind listening to legitimate cases against people, I really don't. I can see why you don't like his "personality" defense, but that one thing isn't nearly enough for me to do anything thanIGMEOY: Zin, whereas your "superstar" play leads me to want to vote for you. (I'm not voting for you yet because I don't like flipflopping votes and I want to see some more from RS before I unvote him.)
Rotten:Wb and I hope things are okay with you IRL. My vote is still currently on you but I'll be watching how you post very closely and if I see a change in your over-defensiveness, I will consider unvoting post haste. I also want to see your thoughts on Skruff's meta-posts and on all the smoke-and-mirror play that has been done to pull attention off of you and Capricious.PokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."
Muerrto: "Mizzy is my hero and I wanna be like her when I grow younger <3"-
-
Mizzy Furry
- Furry
- Furry
- Posts: 2536
- Joined: November 28, 2007
- Location: Leominster, MA
Now you're just putting connotations into my words that aren't there.Skruffs wrote:Mizzy:
You are saying that I am using Smoke and Mirrors to pull attention from two other players; which begs the question: Why are you so deadset in having one of only two people lynched today and so against explorations into other venues? Do you have a vested interest in other players NOT being investigated/criticized?
We have two players who seem to be in the top scum-candidate lists of most people (looking at the voting and FoSing and what not) and we've been waiting for them to come back from lurking. I'm not talking about lynching either one of them, unlike some others have been. I just want to make sure they are not allowed to slink off into a corner when they have things to answer for because you can't keep the spotlight off yourself.
I'm happy, as I said, to look at cases on other players, if you bother to show me something that's not bullshit.
No, I'm saying that I didn't "scold" you for anything; and I don't intend to "scold" anyone. I'm calling out scummy behavior when I see it, which it not really the same thing.Skruffs wrote:What are you saying here? That I'm not an adult? That Zindaras isn't trying to coerce Sir T to meta him? That Zindaras *is* using a meta to clear himself, and that's okay, but it's not okay for me to bring meta in as part of my reasons for suspicions of him? You realize I am analysing Zindaras's personality as town or as scum, as the basis for the perceived meta, right?
How else do you fight meta-based cases? You fight fire with fire, meta with meta. I'd highly prefer it if everyone, INCLUDING Zin, dropped the meta bullshit and play this game, in the here-and-now. I've said that before.
Okay, now this is just laughable. Asking you to present a solid case is aSkruffs wrote:Also: The "Give me a well thought out case" means nothing to me and is usually a scum tell: you are putting the basis of whether something is a good case solely to be judged by your own discretion, and you are saying in the above post that your discretion is based on a player-by-player basis.scumtell? What orifice did you pull THAT from?
I don't expect cases to be 100% in line with my own line of thinking; I'm asking you to present a case against a player you think is scummy that isn't based on bullshit and meta, and hopefully has more than 1 case-point in it. I'm judging whether or not the case is a good one not just on my own opinions but on the opinions of others, too, and the CONTENT of that case. I also think that everyone else would agree with me that a 1-point case based on meta-warring is not a good reason to do anything but eye Zin, which I have already done and intend to do.
I'm not asking you to scumhunt for me even remotely. I am, and others are, already scumhunting; you want us (not JUST me) to switch our focus onto someone you think you have found?Show us why we should.That's all I'm asking.PokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."
Muerrto: "Mizzy is my hero and I wanna be like her when I grow younger <3"-
-
Mizzy Furry
- Furry
- Furry
- Posts: 2536
- Joined: November 28, 2007
- Location: Leominster, MA
You pull in outside information, we discuss it, and then ignore it because of how irrelevant and bad it is. You offer 1 case-point that has anything to do with THIS game, I discuss it with you and discard it because of how flimsy it is.Skruffs wrote:I am working with the information I have: This game is not giving me enough so I am pulling in outside information to be discussed and used or ignored, and everything I am saying *is* based on the game, but like Mizzy and Zindaras, you are ignoring the parts that actually have to deal with this game, and focussing on the Deliciously Easy Scapegoat of Using Metas.
Yes, indeed, you aresuchthe oppressed pro-towner. No oneeverlistens to you (even though we do) and we're all just jumping on you because it'sconvenient(even though there's already two other active wagons) and I'mclearlyscum because I disagree with you.
Unvote. Vote: SkruffsPokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."
Muerrto: "Mizzy is my hero and I wanna be like her when I grow younger <3"-
-
Mizzy Furry
- Furry
- Furry
- Posts: 2536
- Joined: November 28, 2007
- Location: Leominster, MA
You areCapricious wrote:My intellect is too low to understand the Skruffs-Zindaras dispute, and when you erase all those posts, what else is there?nota moron. If youmusthide behind the "I'm too stupid to contribute" shield, then for the love of god, don't be intelligent early in the game andthenspout it? Be stupid thewhole time.
Fos: CapriciousPokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."
Muerrto: "Mizzy is my hero and I wanna be like her when I grow younger <3"-
-
Mizzy Furry
- Furry
- Furry
- Posts: 2536
- Joined: November 28, 2007
- Location: Leominster, MA
Oh. Well, honestly, it doesn't mean anything. To me, anyway. It's all bullcrap WIFOM meta to me.Capricious wrote:No, I am being honest. I don't know what to make of all that at all.PokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."
Muerrto: "Mizzy is my hero and I wanna be like her when I grow younger <3"-
-
Mizzy Furry
- Furry
- Furry
- Posts: 2536
- Joined: November 28, 2007
- Location: Leominster, MA
Seconded. What the hell is that all about?hasdgfas wrote:
what are you talking about?Capricious wrote:"feel" is the best and only basis there is.PokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."
Muerrto: "Mizzy is my hero and I wanna be like her when I grow younger <3"-
-
Mizzy Furry
- Furry
- Furry
- Posts: 2536
- Joined: November 28, 2007
- Location: Leominster, MA
Why's Elmo getting all do-it-yerself with the bark when he could have just asked me for my projector? Suspicious, I tell you.
Andy's unvote worked just fine, I see. And I don't like the wagon on him, by the way...it's all fluff and no nutter.PokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."
Muerrto: "Mizzy is my hero and I wanna be like her when I grow younger <3"-
-
Mizzy Furry
- Furry
- Furry
- Posts: 2536
- Joined: November 28, 2007
- Location: Leominster, MA
...Skruffs wrote:Anyone who's NOT voting and DOESN'T post in the next fourteen hours is scum trying to push a nolynch.
While I don't like the idea of people not posting and not voting one bit, I also don't like this post. It's circular logic at its worst and completely unprovable.PokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."
Muerrto: "Mizzy is my hero and I wanna be like her when I grow younger <3"-
-
Mizzy Furry
- Furry
- Furry
- Posts: 2536
- Joined: November 28, 2007
- Location: Leominster, MA
1 scum like no-lynches andSkruffs wrote:It's absolutely NOT circular logic, Mizzy, and I think you are throwing that word around because you've seen other people do it.
2 participation keeps no-lynch from happening...
3 so, all non-participants must be scum becase
4 Goto line 1
Might I point out that there are likely 3 scummers (25% of the players are usually scum in minis, yes?) and we have 3 people not voting (one of which is not me.) Therefor, according to YOUR LOGIC, Skruffs, because I am posting and voting, I cannot be scum.Skruffs wrote:This is logic, and it's NOT circular. If you want to debate how no - lynching is good for the town, the stage is all yours, mizzy.
(Incidentally, Mizzy's scumbuddy zindaras is not voting).PokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."
Muerrto: "Mizzy is my hero and I wanna be like her when I grow younger <3"-
-
Mizzy Furry
- Furry
- Furry
- Posts: 2536
- Joined: November 28, 2007
- Location: Leominster, MA
What the shit is this? OMGUS vote AND you can't even spell my name right? It's 5 letters! ><Skruffs wrote:Just considering things here:
If there is a scum group of some sort, and only one (as compared to an individual or multiple smaller partners) then there are probably 3 of those scum.That meansa that out of 11 players, if scum decides to not post after deadline, 6 out of 8 of the town players HAVE to post EVRY 24 HOUR cycle to contin discussion.
Considering we only have TWO WEEKS per day cycle, the current deadline cycle HEAVILY FAVORS no lynching if as many as 3 protown players are even SLIGHTLY inactive at any point during the game after the first two weeks of the game are up. Defending inactiveness therefore helps scum more.
Unvote, Vote MyzzyPokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."
Muerrto: "Mizzy is my hero and I wanna be like her when I grow younger <3"-
-
Mizzy Furry
- Furry
- Furry
- Posts: 2536
- Joined: November 28, 2007
- Location: Leominster, MA
So, basically, you have zero case on me, and you're voting me because I think (and proved) your logic is circular?Skruffs wrote:There are only two players who both haven't posted and aren't voting, not three. Sorry, you lose. I also did not say that scum could ONLY be not-voting and not-contributing, merely that scum WOULD do that if they could. Hopefully, having called that out, town AND scum will both be forced to post more in the fear that if they don't they will get in trouble. All of this seems to go past you, though, even though you claim to not like non-postings and non-voters either.
I agree with you (as I already said) that non-participation is anti-town. But making a blanket statement like that is bullshit and deserves to be called out. You have NO REASON to be voting me.PokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."
Muerrto: "Mizzy is my hero and I wanna be like her when I grow younger <3"-
-
Mizzy Furry
- Furry
- Furry
- Posts: 2536
- Joined: November 28, 2007
- Location: Leominster, MA
Okay, this is getting ridiculous. I took the logic you provided and showed how it was circular. I didn't use any of my own other than sarcasm, which shouldn't even be considered.Skruffs wrote:You didn't prove anything; You used circular reasoning to try and say I was circular reasoning.
It is true that I don't agree with the use of many of the "scumtells" that most people claim are near bullet-proof on this site. They ARE mostly circular and unprovable logic that nearly always lead town the wrong way.Skruffs wrote:If you want to say that it's circular reasoning, fine, but anyone could take ANY scum tell as a course of circular reasoning, which makes scum hunting (in your eyes) completely useless anyways!
However, the second part of this statement (saying it makes scumhunting in my eyes useless) is complete and utter bullshit. Scumhunting is not (and should never be) done solely with the use of "scumtells." Scumtells are one of the tools we can use, yes, but they are often flawed and cause at least as many mislynches as they do scum-lynches.
Okay, let's take this one sentence at a time.Skruffs wrote:What I said was that people who avoid posting in the next 12 hours and are not voting, ARE SCUM. You have agreed, if not that forcing a no-lynch is scummy, that you at least don't 'like' inactivity. You yourself are posting AND voting. You then tried to use some sort of inverse of what I said to try and clear yourself, which is blatantly ridiculous; you seem to have a vested interest in making sure Zindaras is protected, and you are using increasingly drastic measures to stifle attempts to incriminate him. Unless you are a cop with an innocent on him, are masons with him, or are SCUM with him, or are scum trying to incriminate him, you have no reason to go that far to protect him, and even then, only the fourth option winds up helping *you* to any degree.
Firstly, you have zero way to prove that anyone who doesn't post and isn't voting in the next 12 hours are scum. Not posting and not voting is anti-town, but as I'm sure you are aware, anti-town is NOT the same as scum.
Secondly, I don't have anything to clear myself of because you have yet to provide a valid case against me. My "trying to clear myself" was me making fun of you.
Where do I show a blatant interest in protectinganyone? Your imaginary scumtells don't count.
What, my random vote based on your avatar? Don't make me laugh at you anymore than I already am, please; you might make my baby fall out prematurely. I'd also like to mention that I didn't hop on a Rotten Snitch bandwagon...I was THE FIRST VOTE ON HIM (post 43.) There WAS no wagon.Skruffs wrote:Also: And I looked through your posts. You started off the game by following Zindaras on to me. Then you hopped onto Rotten Snitch, the first bandwagon. Until post 6, you do absolutely no scum hunting at all, you talk about fuzzy kittens in more posts than you talk about the game, and you use fuzzy kittens as our reason for voting me in the first place (presumably, seems kind of forced reasoning to me).Get your facts straight.
You're putting connotations on my posts that don't exist and stop misrepresenting my posts. I never said not to scumhunt, I said that I didn't think that anyone had any basis to anyone was scum,Skruffs wrote:At post 6 you start trying to get people to stop scumhunting by saying 'it's only page three' - and by saying nobody can think anyone is scum yet. That was in regards to Sir Tornado saying Zindaras was scumfor buddying up to you.yet. Yet implies further action looking for basis to think someone is scum at a later time, which is not where NEAR trying to end scumhunting.
Quote, please. I'dSkruffs wrote:Zindaras corrects you with correct townie thinking, (which you don't acknowledge), but in your next post you both backtrack and push your case, by saying that random voting is great, even though you said previously that it couldn't have led to anything substantial, which suggests to me you think it's greatbecauseyou don't think it can lead to good scum hunting?loveto see where I said random voting doesn't lead to anything substantial.
Bullshit left, right, and sideways. I said, "I can't believe that anyone wouldSkruffs wrote:You then go on to say that NOBODY could know anyone is scum or not yet, which is directly rebutting Sir Tornado's case against Zindaras without actually addressing the information specifically; not only are you rebuffing it, you don't seem at all interested in the information that leads Sir T to that conclusion - so the idea of Zindaras buddying up to you (as I read your post) is not a concern to you at ALL. The only way, again, that you can know he's not scum is if he's in your scum group, or not in your scum group, or if you are masons, etc. You deride Sir T's case as pure meta, but in retrospect you haven't looked at Zindaras at all.knowthat any person is or isn't scum yet" where the word know is key. And no, I'm NOT interested in bullshit meta. I've said that. And no, his buddying up to me never was and never will be a concern to me. Buddying up is shown to be as town-tell-ish as it is scum-tell-ish. I learned THAT my first newbie game. As for not having looked at Zindaras, I have looked at his playin this gameand don't see it as scummy. I'm NOT going to meta him.
I was referencing, in that post, wanting to see a real case for a real vote. Random votes don't need real cases, because they are random. However, if someone starts to really point at someone, not randomly, I OF COURSE want to see a case, and so should everyone else.Skruffs wrote:In your next post you inform the rest of the game that you expect to see, instead of random finger pointing (which you said in a previous post that you love) case and logic, again, in regards to Sir Tornado's case against Zindaras. You repeat that Sir T's case is pure meta; again, but until this point the only scum hunting you have done is dismissing other player's scum hunting while bemoaning the 'loss' of the self-proclaimed frivolous random stage. Or in short:
You don't want to leave random stage, and if the town leaves it, you expect them to jump immediately into sound cases, and you don't want to do it yourself.
As for not doing any scumhunting? I'm not even going to dignify that kettle-pot jab with a real response.
Yes, because the idea of mislynching a townie because some dumbasss wagoned on them with no case and no evidence isSkruffs wrote:This is Primo-scumtalk; as someone who is scum you have the luxury of dismissing 'bad cases' because you *know* whether it is based in fact or not; because of that you have a great opportunity to look pro-town without actually sticking your neck out, I did the exact same thing in a newbie game once which is why I'm picking up on it.so verypro-town.
Skruffs wrote:No, I think that itself is pretty good reason: You have deflected several lines of inquiry against Zindaras by multiple players, you do NOT seem to be all that interested in scum hunting yourself AND you have a 'standard' you expect from other players which alows you to ignore wagons/suspicions that aren't 'logical' enough, when the only people who DO have logical, fact based argumetns ARE power roles AND scum. I think you are scum.
Direct quotes or post numbers, please, or shut up.
And would you STOP speculating on power roles? Rolefishing is not appreciated.PokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."
Muerrto: "Mizzy is my hero and I wanna be like her when I grow younger <3"-
-
Mizzy Furry
- Furry
- Furry
- Posts: 2536
- Joined: November 28, 2007
- Location: Leominster, MA
How can I prove I'm not scum to you when your entire case is based on misrepresented facts, made-up stuff and assumptions other than to point out your mistakes?Skruffs wrote:Incidentally: My belief that you are scum is the ONLY REASON *I* need to be voting you, Mizzy, and until you give me a solid, logical case as to why youaren'tscum, all the fussing in the world is not going to change that belief.
Also: you're a pottymouth.PokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."
Muerrto: "Mizzy is my hero and I wanna be like her when I grow younger <3"-
-
Mizzy Furry
- Furry
- Furry
- Posts: 2536
- Joined: November 28, 2007
- Location: Leominster, MA
Wow, nice posting guys! *cheers*
Okay, anyway, it doesn't look like I have anything more to respond to but I might have missed something. Does anyone have any unanswered questions for me?PokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."
Muerrto: "Mizzy is my hero and I wanna be like her when I grow younger <3"-
-
Mizzy Furry
- Furry
- Furry
- Posts: 2536
- Joined: November 28, 2007
- Location: Leominster, MA
It really feels like our accusations/focus are/is all over the place and we're having a lot of trouble agreeing on anything. This is just my opinion, but I do think we need to work together instead of having everyone kind of pointing fingers in different directions.
Several people have said they see certain folks as obvtown...but I don't see a lot of explanation as to why, and that makes me kind of suspicious. That feels more like townhunting than scumhunting, but again, just my opinion and I could be incorrect.
hasdgfas: I can certainly see why you'd think that he can contribute more than he is/has, but can I ask why that makes you feel okay with lynching him? Seems like a bit of a cop-out lynch. Granted, any lynch is better than no-lynch, but I would seriously prefer going for a lynch and not a mis-lynch. Do you feel Capricious is scum? If not, why are you willing to lynch someone you don't think is scum?
I am still highly suspicious of Skruffs and Rotten Snitch...the dynamic between the two of them is not something I have seen before and it makes me very, very wary of both of them. The Snitch <--> Skruffs dynamic could be a form of bussing. I'll leave my vote where it is until someone tells me WHY Skruffs is obvtown, because honestly, I don't see it. He does a LOT of role speculation and it feels a lot like rolefishing to me.
Capricious also pings my scumdar a great deal because he hasn't contributed a lot lately and is hiding behind other people to fight his battles. He also used the "I'm stoopid" reason for not contributing, which I ALSO don't like. I realize anti-town != scum, but damn, he sure doesn't help us much.
I guess my focus is on those three. I'm willing to listen to other cases, though.PokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."
Muerrto: "Mizzy is my hero and I wanna be like her when I grow younger <3"-
-
Mizzy Furry
- Furry
- Furry
- Posts: 2536
- Joined: November 28, 2007
- Location: Leominster, MA
Okay, now that I can understand and I feel a lot better about you now. Your post of "I'd be good with a Caprilynch" had kind pinged my scumdar, which is why I asked about it, but now I can see exactly where you are coming from.hasdgfas wrote:So basically: Yes, I feel he's scum. He's been pushing an andycyca lynch without explaining why andy is scum. (A relatively common scum tactic from what I've seen, argument through repetition). Many of his posts have been extremely contentless when he could easily have contributed more in many of his posts. When he does contribute, his logic seems more like scumlogic than townlogic.
Capricious:Would you mind responding (in more than 2 sentences, please) to the case against you? I want to see your side of it.PokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."
Muerrto: "Mizzy is my hero and I wanna be like her when I grow younger <3"-
-
Mizzy Furry
- Furry
- Furry
- Posts: 2536
- Joined: November 28, 2007
- Location: Leominster, MA
-
-
Mizzy Furry
- Furry
- Furry
- Posts: 2536
- Joined: November 28, 2007
- Location: Leominster, MA
It can be, yes, but in this game's case, it feels like there's no reason to be pointing in some directions other than to just point (Andy and Zin are good examples of that in my eyes) and when someone says NOT to point at a specific person (I think people have called Skruffs, myself and Capri townies for sure) they fail to sayeldarad wrote:Why do you think this is a bad thing? I'd have thought that having multiple leads was a good thing for the town.why. It seems to lack the substance that would help town in most cases here.PokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."
Muerrto: "Mizzy is my hero and I wanna be like her when I grow younger <3"-
-
Mizzy Furry
- Furry
- Furry
- Posts: 2536
- Joined: November 28, 2007
- Location: Leominster, MA
You know, Skruffs, you don't get to make things up. You also don't get to selectively drop out parts of my posts.Skruffs wrote:So wait, mizzy:
You go out of your way to deflect or criticize lines of talk that involve zindaras not being town, and then to the exact opposite in regards to me and rotten snitch?
You have made it abundantly clear (to me) that you have a vested interest in protecting zindaras, over other players. Why?
Firstly, I haven't gone out of why way to do anything (you want to accuse me, then show some proof.) In my opinion, the cases against Andy AND Zin are empty. No one has shown anything to change that since I last said so even though I have asked.
Secondly, I didn't mention Snitch in that last post at all.What is your obsession with constantly pairing the two of you up?
My point is thatno matter whoyou accuse of being scum or exonerate as being town, you need to say WHY or your words can only be ignored at best and scrutinized as being scummy at worst.
Oh, and you have yet to provide specific posts and quotes from me that show I do what you accuse me of doing. I suggest you do it or shut up.PokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."
Muerrto: "Mizzy is my hero and I wanna be like her when I grow younger <3"-
-
Mizzy Furry
- Furry
- Furry
- Posts: 2536
- Joined: November 28, 2007
- Location: Leominster, MA
That epiphany of yours a) doesn't seem to be directed at anyone, b) is not helpful and c) shows thatCapricious wrote:pro-town people are creators, scum play tag-along/ are concludersyou'rescummy, if anything.
Can't you do any better than that?PokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."
Muerrto: "Mizzy is my hero and I wanna be like her when I grow younger <3"-
-
Mizzy Furry
- Furry
- Furry
- Posts: 2536
- Joined: November 28, 2007
- Location: Leominster, MA
I have a feeling that most people won't be around for the entire weekend, considering that Sunday is the holiday. I would suggest the deadlines be postponed until Monday when people will be home from wherever they are for Easter.PokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."
Muerrto: "Mizzy is my hero and I wanna be like her when I grow younger <3"-
-
Mizzy Furry
- Furry
- Furry
- Posts: 2536
- Joined: November 28, 2007
- Location: Leominster, MA
-
-
Mizzy Furry
- Furry
- Furry
- Posts: 2536
- Joined: November 28, 2007
- Location: Leominster, MA
I'm heathen...my holiday passed already.Y wrote:Am I the only one not having a holiday?PokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."
Muerrto: "Mizzy is my hero and I wanna be like her when I grow younger <3"-
-
Mizzy Furry
- Furry
- Furry
- Posts: 2536
- Joined: November 28, 2007
- Location: Leominster, MA
As much as I hate to agree with you, you're right. He did post today, and honestly, an "Unvote" is just as easy a thing to type as a "hi." And much, much more helpful to the game. He's only really contributed when pressured to, and even that wasn't very much.Skruffs wrote:Capricious could be voting Andycaca to help achieve a lynch, bu instead he is voting himself, so...
Unvote, Vote : Capricious
It's pointless to jump through hoops to extend a deadline if we aren't coming to a conclusion.
That makes me feel like either a) he doesn't care about the game at all, or b) he doesn't care about thetown.
@Capri:Which is it?PokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."
Muerrto: "Mizzy is my hero and I wanna be like her when I grow younger <3"-
-
Mizzy Furry
- Furry
- Furry
- Posts: 2536
- Joined: November 28, 2007
- Location: Leominster, MA
Yes, that's a small part of my way of thinking, but I've been trying not to go there because of how WIFOM the whole thing is. (Ugh, I hate WIFOM.)Skruffs wrote:note:
mizzy may have indicated thoughts that Capri is town inher last sentence of her last post. Voting himself infers a lack of caring about himself, not necessarily town. It would only be a lack fo caring to town if he himself is town.
Secondarily, an Unvote is less helpful to the town than keeping his vote on himself at least by voting himself he's helping SOME sort of lynch. An unvote followed by a vote on someone else would be more helpful, of course. An unvote would only be helpful, to town, if Capricious is town voting himself, right?
I'll explain my thinking for a moment, just so you guys know why I asked Capri about which motive he has, but PLEASE remember that it's terribly WIFOM and don't base anything off of it. This is for SHARING and DISCUSSION purposes, only.
It could be explained by a whole slew of thought-processes, but here's the few I am focused on:
1) Capritown > Gets bored and doesn't care > Votes for self > Hurts town by aiding his own mislynch
2) Capritown > Is an idiot > Votes for self > Hurts town by aiding his own mislynch
3) Capriscum > Freaks out and stays hidden > Votes for self to look more town > Escapes a lynch by invoking WIFOM
4) Capriscum > Wants a no-lynch > Votes for self to look more town > Doesn't help a real lynch > Escapes a lynch by invoking WIFOM
Capri's self-vote coupled with the lack of content-posting could show a desire for a no-lynch (while posting the minimum required, for the time being, so that he doesn't appear quite so scummy) or it could be a sign of a completely bored townie...but why not just get replaced? I'd prefer not to think of him as an idiot...but you never know.
Trust me, I know the whole thing is WIFOM, which is why I'm not acting based on it other than to ask Capri why and await his response before forming an opinion on his motive.
But, yes Skruffs, that's why I asked Capri whether a) he doesn't care about the game at all, or b) doesn't care about the town. The answer could very well be both; I have no idea.PokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."
Muerrto: "Mizzy is my hero and I wanna be like her when I grow younger <3"-
-
Mizzy Furry
- Furry
- Furry
- Posts: 2536
- Joined: November 28, 2007
- Location: Leominster, MA