Mini 1959 - Protomen Blitz : Game Over

[Reasonably Rational]

VOTE: Havopromise

Very willing to vote Vax instead if others see the light, but I'll only move if it's coordinate in here with a few others to ensure we hit deadline with a clear vote leader.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

don't know why you don't like xiao more RR :\

Cuz cop? Even if scum, if fhey find other scum they'll feed them to us for towncred? Just can't trust their innos.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Titus is moonie drealm. Or are you saying you didn't say that? Use more words plz.
-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Havo= dumb town or a scum, with no redeeming qualities.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Varsokn, hope you're getting that havo flavor ready so you can just lock and give us a flip!

[Reasonably Rational]

Nawx it's just the way I feel all the time, wholly nai. I hate waiting for flips. As scum I want to know I can start speculating about the setup, and as town I just wanna know if we were right or not.
It's more about prodding varsoon to start writing now. ;p
-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Deadline!

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Varsoon better lock it before I steal his pagetop.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Wait! Damnit. I'm wrong. 8 minutes left. pagetop stolen. I'm sorry Varsoon .

-Cerb

Pedit: drats, foiled again.

[Reasonably Rational]

I did not realize a single vote would make drealmerz the lynch for today. :/

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Titus....desp can not vote today.


For the third time.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Xiao, why are you voting yume when it means you're leaving the possibility that someone will swap off one of your preferred lynchea and make drealmerz get lynched instead?

Cerb

Pedit: nm, addressed, kinda.

[Reasonably Rational]

@Drealm: actions taken last night? Anything new/surprising/concerning?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Yume created one with Xiao last night, but I thought that was part of the day action she took.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

fuzzy, TFoD wins when all the State are dead, and loses if the Dead get down to one player.
~Chara

Yep, that's what I was going to say.

Vaxkiller...used his block on fuzzy...because he didn't trust the result from xiao, and thinks he gave a fake inno on a teammate.

....

Drealmerz, what actions were taken last night?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

someone created a hood with someone
someone caused someone unable to use their abilities toDay and toNight
someone killed somoene
someone sent bomb man to someone
someone investigated someone

Hmm. And nothing else occurred?

Interesting...

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

someone created a hood with someone
someone caused someone unable to use their abilities toDay and toNight
someone killed somoene
someone sent bomb man to someone
someone investigated someone

Interesting.

So, Yume created a hood with Ciao, and Vax blocked Fuzzy for the duration if D3/N3. A kill was prevented (so either Ciao. Titus or Yume were targeted by the NK), and "someone" made Gorkington hated today. If Xiao is the only claimed Cop then the investigation is his.

I will stick my neck out and say the Gork is definitely Town now. (But feel free to do that thing with Chara anyway if you feel like it). We should wait for Xiao's result before we start voting more I think. Not that I tryst him, but it may hive us a better idea anyway.

From a balance perspective, I'm certain Xiao or myself were targeted. I doubt Yume actually protects herself, and she said she only protects them for the night they were recruited.

It's possible they missed that we claimed to be bp, or didn't trust us. Also possible they didn't trust Yume and shot at Xiao.

@A50: I'd like your claim.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Yeah. That's why I asked drealmerz about actions. I was 100% Drealm town until I heard that.

It's possible it was a day action though. :/

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Yeah. That's why I asked drealmerz about actions. I was 100% Drealm town until I heard that.

It's possible it was a day action though. :/

-Cerb

Not likely.

Indeed.

Which is why I asked AC for their claim, because the only remaining options are ninja modifiers, or a NU passive they have which they did not claim.

@yume: it doesn't matter? Our win con says we win when tfod is removed if there are 6 or more players alive. The rest doesn't matter if we succeed in doing that. I couldn't care less if another faction wins with me.

Vax, drealm, and AC are the only reasonable lynches today imo. Drealm and AC wouldn't be on the table because of their work in the havo lynch, if not for the weird result when investigating them.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Can we not hammer Vax on accident? I think he's at l-2 or l-1 right now.

And I'm saying this as the person who sort of wanted him lynched more than anyone else did yesterday.

Titus: Can I get your support here on getting ACs claim please?

-Cerb

Pedit: drealmerz, my lynch list is based on those who I view as having a chance of being FoD. AC and you because of Xiaos action result not making sense, and Vax because the abilities he's claimed fit the flavor of dr. lights ally.

Yume is still potentially on that list too, especially since you told us that you would be told about any extra effects of the hood being created. Someone in that set of slots is lying about something.

Xiao isn't on the list because I, like Titus, just don't see him lying, at least not in this way, at this time were he FoD. He could just give another inno and be done with it.

[Reasonably Rational]

I don't care if they can win with us or not.

Our win con says we win when all of either faction is gone, with a deadline for each. Maybe they lose when we win. Who cares, what matters is that we win.

@Yume: I think it does make sense that both state and fod can win with town though, given how our win con is constructed. Also, I was frigging scum in SU2. It was in my best interest to make the town doubt you guys. In addition, there were no unusual details in our win condition in SU2 like there are here. There was plenty of reason to doubt you guys. In this game, we've been explicitly told we win when either faction is removed(with some caveats). That means we can not lose when either faction is removed unless it occurs after we have less than 6 remaining alive, in which case removing all tfod might mean only the state wins without town winning. It's possible that when we remove all tfod early, that state does not win, but again, that doesn't matter because WE win.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Yes, they could have an unknown win con wholly unrelated to the father of death or the number of town players alive. That's STILL irrelevant when deciding what the optimal play is for today. Unless you think it's likely the FoD has 3 members(and even then, it's still something worth considering), lynching the last member of the FoD today just gets us a win, period, regardless of what it does to all the other win conditions.

@Titus and A50: my concern is that A50 could have a defensive passive of some sort which prevented the investigation. That removes the choice between Xiao and drealmerz.

-Cerb

Pedit: unless you know the state wincon....there's no reason to think the state have to protect FoD?

[Reasonably Rational]

I don't understand why anyone would think the state would be trying to protect FoD? It doesn't make sense mechanically or thematically as far as I can tell.

A50: k. That's less valuable than it was before Xiao claimed his results, but it's some thing.

So, titus, I know you're obsessed with the idea of drealm scum, but the real question to me is how to reconcile what was clearly a scum action with Vax apparently using his roleblock, and a kill being attempted.

Drealm: your results were different last night from N1, yes?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Any difference is relevant. I was thinking the result Xiao received could have been a passive triggered by lynching a member of FoD, something that made everyone's actions/investigations return the previous nights results, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Anybody think it's possible that state is one slot, and fod 3? No way that can be balanced right? They'd just have to remove one slot, game could be over on D1. Hm. 3 v 2 is too much?

*sigh*

So at EoD yesterday, the lynch could have basically went anyway. Dreamers vote on havo was purely survivalistic, kept him from being lynched. If they has BOTH swapped their votes elsewhere though, they could have prevented that I think? Why does a havo/drealmer team NOT make someone else a prime lynch target? Did things just happen too fast at the end?
-Cerb

Pedit: willing to lynch vax, I'm just working through the possibilities. Maybe state messed with xiao? Overlooked that with all the talk about xiao definitely being state. That could explain things....

[Reasonably Rational]

A reminder to everyone that I'm BP, so...maybe they didn't shoot at Xiao? Another reminder that we don't know who controls the kill. And a final reminder that in a 13p game, requiring town have 75% lynch accuracy(which is what is required for the 6+ alive removal of God victory) is kinda a lot. If any of the shots shots are from state, at fod, it's a bit easier, but I think we have reasonable cause to believe state did not perform the N1 kill.

@AC: the ability removing your ability to vote could easily not be the same type of ability as the ones a passive you might have affect. It is a decent bit of weak evidence, but it is weak.

@drealmerz: I've thought you were, at besr, an outside chance of being scum mosr of this game. Any thought of lynching you or advising Xiao to cop you came wholly from a desire to get Titus out of her tunnel.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Gimme 30, driving.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

I had a terrible move and long arse day today. Vax has basically claimed FoD at this point. He needs to eat rope and barring an overlarge faction for this size game, we win. That’s the objective. Let’s get er done.

~Drixx

VOTE: Vaxkiller

[Reasonably Rational]

@Dreal - Play to win con. Fastest way to “show” Titus is to win. Your vote is making me seriously rethink my town read on you. Like... only FoD (assuming 3) should have a hard on for state today. That’s the biggest reason Vax has basically claimed FoD scum with his play today.

~D

[Reasonably Rational]

@RR So what was that about me not being betrayed by you? *frowny face*

From game start we were aiming to get the win with the dead win con, which we did. You were never betrayed, not even in spirit.

Also: I maintain that by coloring, the factions were:

The State

: “Good” with town’s color. AKA town and how we played it.

Father of Death

: “Bad” with scum’s color. AKA scum.

The Dead

: Survivor faction. Won with either “town” or “scum” or lost to AC with both.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Mechanically the dead were the survivors. The win conditions make that super clear. Varsoon really plays with and subverts expectations.

[Reasonably Rational]

@RR So what was that about me not being betrayed by you? *frowny face*

From game start we were aiming to get the win with the dead win con, which we did. You were never betrayed, not even in spirit.

Also: I maintain that by coloring, the factions were:

The State

: “Good” with town’s color. AKA town and how we played it.

Father of Death

: “Bad” with scum’s color. AKA scum.

The Dead

: Survivor faction. Won with either “town” or “scum” or lost to AC with both.

~Drixx

since the father of death lost if the town lost, i would argue they really aren't scum. not in flavour, role, or play. :<

I’m completely flabbergasted my fly by the seat of my pants day two worked out.

We were kind of all or nothing in on winning with the dead.

Can someone explain to Titus that I cannot possibly have run that mason gambit based upon a read since I knew Xiao was State with us and thus my entire response to Gorkington was a dodge from answering. I didn’t put any personal integrity on the line there. Her insistence that I did is why I got so harsh with her.

~D

[Reasonably Rational]

though i still disagree with calling TFoD "scum". they were the same as the state in relation to the survivors, just opposing forces. when i really thought about our flavour, i did regret lynching Havo. i got over it though. :>

The Fathers of Death nearly ended everything. The State knows best. Trust The State.

@RR So what was that about me not being betrayed by you? *frowny face*

From game start we were aiming to get the win with the dead win con, which we did. You were never betrayed, not even in spirit.

Also: I maintain that by coloring, the factions were:

The State

: “Good” with town’s color. AKA town and how we played it.

Father of Death

: “Bad” with scum’s color. AKA scum.

The Dead

: Survivor faction. Won with either “town” or “scum” or lost to AC with both.

~Drixx

This makes a little bit of sense but is a State centric view.

I just figured our wincon mathmatecially would devolve into eliminate all nonDead, which includes you.

Once I deduced you were State/FoD, I knew I could never keep up with your intelligence and emotional responses due to my life. So I evaded our PT.

There was no need to attack my personal integrity. Once you knew I didn’t do the gambit on a read then you knew my answer to Gorkington was a non answer dodge. No idea why you had a personal go at me.

~D

[Reasonably Rational]

But..he didn't say that Titus?

He said that you know he'd never out a read above the town.

Which he didnt.

He put a mechanically optimal play(keeping the cop from having to claim) "ahead" of the town. We were always aiming for the victory that let town win with us.

So no, based on what he SAID, versus what you ASSUMED he meant, he did not violate his integrity in any way.

Anyways, fun game. The flavor was amazing, but a bit too breakable by flavor for the FoD. Xiao was arguably obvscum for same flavor reaaons, because a cop is obviously am agent of the state, but my role was very well hidden.

Thank you Drixx for saving D2 by digging us out of the hole you put us into. :p

AC, if we had lynched drealmerz, you guys were getting lynched the next day. Luckily that Vax had already claimed and asaid flavor and the discrepancy between his claimed reads and his actual play existed. ^^

Desperado: nicely done. The xiao/myself thing was a simple enough conclusion to arrive at, but vax+havo was inspired, coming arrives it did before havos flip.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Hey. The mason claim worked. Just saying. Can I please end my streak of rolling scum basically all year now? I’m tired.

~D

[Reasonably Rational]

Drixx you had a town game recently.

Don’t be so literal. I’ve rolled scum almost every non newbie this year. Like... I just need a few months of just town. Day two of this was ridiculously taxing energy wise and then I had a nightmare move. Still phone limited until Friday even.

~D

[Reasonably Rational]

Drixx you had a town game recently.

Don’t be so literal. I’ve rolled scum almost every non newbie this year. Like... I just need a few months of just town. Day two of this was ridiculously taxing energy wise and then I had a nightmare move. Still phone limited until Friday even.

~D

Hey. The mason claim worked. Just saying. Can I please end my streak of rolling scum basically all year now? I’m tired.

~D

I wanted ys to be dual town too.

It's like a rule though. Titus and Drixx have hood d1. Drixx is scum.

Contra exhibit one: Steven Universe

And yes: we caught you slippin dirty that game

~D

[Reasonably Rational]

I've been town almost nonstop so much it is painful

I like playing scum normally. I’ve just had so little time as town recently that I feel very unanchored to my town approach and I’m making huge mistakes.

~D

[Reasonably Rational]

..|. Lol.

[Reasonably Rational]

First rule of good scum play: ALWAYS tell the truth whenever it poses no reasonable risk.

~D

[Reasonably Rational]

Just say when and I’ll hydra in an instant Varsoon.