Mini 574: Portal Mafia: HUGE SUCCESS

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

Anyway this cake is great
It’s so delicious and moist

/confirMMed

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

Cake is most delicious, thus I must

Vote: Sir Tornado

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

Ok, is that the fourth vote

already

on scotmany after only 33 posts?

Unvote, Vote: Flameaxe for being a sneaky 4th voter on the bandwagon.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

Dang it, forgot to bold:

EBWOP: Unvote, Vote: Flameaxe

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

Ok, is that the fourth vote

already

on scotmany after only 33 posts?

Unvote, Vote: Flameaxe for being a sneaky 4th voter on the bandwagon.

Is there something wrong with having scotmany at four votes?

That is the scummiest action I have seen thus far.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

:arrow: calling someone homo = non-game-related content

:arrow: non-game-related content = not as much attention paid to post

:arrow: not as much attention paid to post = sneaky

:arrow: sneaky + 4th vote = scummy

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

Non-game related comment = Reasons for a jokevote day one? Yeah.

You are helping my argument.

:arrow: Jokevote = not as much attention paid to post

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

Non-game related comment = Reasons for a jokevote day one? Yeah.

You are helping my argument.

:arrow: Jokevote = not as much attention paid to post

And what do you call your joke post? Hypocrite.

My joke post was the first vote of the game. Yours was the 4th vote on the scotmany wagon. Are they the same? I think not.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

Non-game related comment = Reasons for a jokevote day one? Yeah.

You are helping my argument.

:arrow: Jokevote = not as much attention paid to post

And what do you call your joke post? Hypocrite.

My joke post was the first vote of the game. Yours was the 4th vote on the scotmany wagon. Are they the same? I think not.

But both posts had the same purpose. Time of posting has nothing to do with this.

The timing is the main reason that I found your "same purpose" joke post scummy.

Vote: Machiavellian-Mafia

I think you are really pushing this fourth vote thing way to far. I didn't view it scummy at all; it was a random vote on a random wagon.

Once this game is over, you will be amazed at how so many supposedly "random" votes are not "random" at all.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

No access at all from now til next Monday. Will be back on Tuesday.

Or see my sig.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

Machiavellian-Mafia's posting bothers me a bit; he's pushing the fourth-vote-is-scum-and-everything-now-is-purposeful thing too much. But I'll save some complaints until he gets back.

I think M-M is starting to overdo the 4th vote is scummy thing. I can see him using it as a way to kick things off even if I don't agree with it, but he hasn't talked about anything else. And again, unless there's any practical chance whatsoever of it leading to a speedlynch, I don't see how a 4th vote on a wagon made of random votes can be a danger.

Relative to everything else that had happened in the game at the time, and especially because there is a 14-day deadline, that 4th vote by flameaxe was what I found to be scummiest and thus I went after the hardest. Now on top of that, flameaxe continues to post mostly fluff and be unhelpful in scumhunting, so I still like my flameaxe vote.

My current positions on all players:

Flameaxe - Explained above, still like my vote

Your Worst Nightmare - Leaning slightly protown with adequate defenses against accusations

Sir Tornado - Neutral, insufficient posts to get a read

Patrick - Most protown, very helpful in scumhunting and thorough reasoning.

populartajo - Neutral, none of his posts stood out as scummy or protown

Gorrad – Suspicious, seemed like he tried extensively to twist YWN’s posts to make him an LAL lynch target.

FoS: Gorrad

Miztef – Protown, contributed sufficient analysis on game situations and scumhunting

The Jester - Neutral, insufficient posts to get a read

Akonas - Leaning slightly protown with helpful contributions in recent posts.

Incognito - Protown, contributed sufficient analysis on game situations and scumhunting

scotmany12 - Leaning slightly protown with some good reasoning in most recent posts.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

Sir Tornado: I still have not seen you express your thoughts on your suspicions.

Gorrad: It would be very detrimental to the town if you are going to be away until one day before the deadline while you are the current focus of suspicion.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

With deadline approaching, I have no problem switching my vote to my #2 suspect. This would be the L-1 vote.

Unvote, Vote: Gorrad

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

I'm buying the claim for now. Gorrad's night choices need to be evaluated before I see Gorrad as confirmed town. Now I'm back to my #1 suspect.

Unvote, Vote: flameaxe

For:
1. sneaky 4th vote
2. fluffy posts
3. no attempt/not helpful in scumhunting

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

I'm still ok with a lynch on MM. Mainly, I find his attack on Flameaxe opportunistic and hypocritical.

Again like I said before relative to other events in the game I found Flamesaxe's actions the scummiest, and still do. Plus the fact that he's continuously a non-contributor is not helping him be seen in a more positive light.

I really haven't seen him do much scumhunting either. He has mostly focused on pushing this 4th vote thing. Everyone but two on his analysis are either neutral or protown. So yeah, happy with my vote on him now.

I could say pretty much the same things about you, scotmany:

I really haven't seen scotmany do much scumhunting either. He has only focused on me pushing this 4th vote thing. At least I announce my positions on everyone , while he has no positions on anyone else except me, so I can't even tell who scotmany feels neutral or protown about. So yeah, happy to

FoS: scotmany

now.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

For the sake of placing a vote, I'll

unvote; vote: Machiavellian-Mafia

for a.) already having a vote on him and b.) sneaking that "sneaky 4th vote" into his reasons for voting Flameaxe on

page 8.

The other two reasons would be valid...but due to Flameaxe's meta I'd see Flameaxe more as a policy "shit-we-have-48-hours" lynch than as a #1 suspect.

Your point b.) is a clear misrepresentation. I have made it clear throughout the game that one main reason for my suspicion on flameaxe is the 4th vote thing, so there was no "sneaking" involved at all on my part. And since I have never played with flameaxe, I don't see the meta arguments defending flameaxe holding water.

I'm not sure if I like the tajo lynch yet, but deadline is approaching rapidly, so I would be willing to go there.

Patrick's statement about Ether is also true for me, I think killing a replacement too quickly doesn't help much, and the evidence against akonas wasn't all that fantastic anyways.

I think the MM vote is a little off the mark. I will lynch him if it comes down to it, but I really don't know how strong the evidence against him is.

1. If you are against lynching Ether, why do you stil lhave vote on her?
2. From are first and third paragraph, it seems like you are willing to along with any lynch without firm conviction. Do you find no one worthy of a lynch right now?

WARNING. Theory time;:
Pick one of the followings groups. Big possibility of clearing the group if any of them comes up town. At this moment, and at the rate we're going, I think that we wont lynch a scum today, but lets try to pick the best lynch for today.
Group A : Patrick, Incognito, Miztef
Group B : Flameaxe, Gorrad, Scotmany, maybe Sir Tornado
Group C : M&M, YourWorstNightmare
Group D: Jester and Ether (still dont have a read on them)

I don't see how players who have similarities in the game so far would all be town if one of them in the group is town. For example in Group B, if Gorrad is protown gunsmith, I can easily see at least one the other three relatively inactive players as scum.

Wagons:
I'm buying: Flameaxe for reasons discussed tons of times before
I'm selling: Ether for just replaced into game, populartajo for his recent sufficient defense
I could be buying: Relative non-contributors, most notably scotmany and the jester

For my final comment, I find it very disconcerting that half the town is

not voting

when there is only

2 days left until deadline

. Votes elicit vital discussion and provide useful information for current and future scumhunting. Anyone not voting right now is hurting the town.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

Scotmany: I don't see how I'm hypocritical with respect to my attacks on flameaxe:
Did flameaxe make a sneaky and suspicious vote? Yes
Did I do that? No
Did flameaxe post mostly fluff? Yes
Did I do that? No
Is flameaxe not helpful in scumhunting? Yes, zero serious votes or FoSes
Am I not helpful in scumhunting? No, I have made clear who I'm suspicious of, plus I expressed positions on everyone else.

Ether:

you're still using a random fourth vote as an attack on someone two weeks into the game

The whole point of my fourth vote suspicion was that I thought flameaxe's fourth vote was not random.

Did you seriously just try to paint me as a mercy lynch?

No, I believe in replacements having a clean slates unless there is overwhelming evidence against predecessors. Since obviously there isn't for Akonas, I don't find you suspicious right now and thus don't support your lynch.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

Since deadline is in 1 day and no one else is fond of flameaxe lynch except me, I will

unvote

.

Alright, because tajo is at least being active and useful, I will not go into further detail about his lynch. I think that's better to wait until tommorow at least.

Nice setting-up-for-tomorrows-lynch ploy. Plus why are you dodging my questions in Post 237 plus a couple of other people's questions as well?

Vote: Miztef

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

I'm a doctor with a weak sanity, so if I protect an anti-town player I get killed instead. I also breadcrumbed my role in my first 3 posts:

C

ake is most delicious, thus I must Vote: Sir Tornado

O

k, is that the fourth vote already on scotmany after only 33 posts?

Unvote, Vote: Flameaxe for being a sneaky 4th voter on the bandwagon.

D

ang it, forgot to bold:

EBWOP: Unvote, Vote: Flameaxe

First letters of my first 3 posts are C, O, D. Spell that backwards = DOC.

And I'm not buying Miztef's meta as the his only solid defense, so I like my vote. Others I am also willing to lynch are flameaxe, the jester, and scotmany, in that order.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

M-M, consider using yourself as a one-shot cop and saying who you will target beforehand. Might make things better.

I'll have to clarify something with the mod before I can say whether that is a good strategy.

Unvote, Vote: populartajo

for deadline lynch. I believe this is tajo is at L-2 now.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

I targetted Gorrad. Since I didn't get killed, Gorrad is now confirmed protown and I fully buy his claim. Gorrad do you have any results?

I'll need to reread to update my positions on everyone.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

Flameaxe – My position is still the same on flameaxe as yesterday with high levels of suspicions. Plus I just noticed flameaxe had ZERO serious votes the entire Day 1, which reaffirms the fact that he is extremely unhelpful. Also the fact that he has ignored this game while posting 19 times in other games since the start of Day 2 is not helping his cause either.

Your Worst Nightmare - Neutral stance. What I did not like was YWN's passiveness in Posts 182 and 192, but I can attribute some of that to newbieness. Overall he has done a decent job of responding to issues and contributing to the game, but not enough for me to fully warrant a protown position on him. Gorrad's result on him is a plus as well.

Sir Tornado, Cake - Top of the suspicion list along with Flameaxe. ST is basically the same as flameaxe. Fluffy posts, unhelpful scumhunting, no serious votes at all the entire day.

Gorrad - Confirmed protown gunsmith. Bottom of list.

Miztef - Neutral stance. Miztef had many scummy and protown actions that cancels each other out. This neutral is worse than YWN's neutral.

Ether – Protown stance. Haven't seen anything scummy, and has been helpful in scumhuniting and general game issues.

Incognito - Takes the place of Patrick as the most non-confirmed protown player in my eyes.

scotmany12 - Relatively less suspicious than flameaxe and ST, but much more suspicious than anyone else. His Day 1 scumhunting consisted of tunnel vision on me. Rest of his contributions are either fluff or game theory, which is pretty much like lurking in plain sight.

So currently my top lynch candidates are {flameaxe, sir tornado, scotmany12} in that order.

Vote: flameaxe

Mach-Mafia, do you function as a regular doctor with the exception of committing suicide if you attempt to protect scum?

Basically yes, except I get killed by antitown players instead of committing suicide. So my role also functions as a cop that can get antitown/non-antitown results.


I also kept track of the three major wagons of D1, which happened to be all on protown players:

Gorrad wagon: {

Patrick

, Incognito, Miztef, YWN,

MM

}

MM wagon: {scotmany,

Gorrad

, Miztef, Incognito,

The Jester

,

populartajo

}

Tajo wagon: {Incognito,

Patrick

, Miztef,

Gorrad, MM

,

The Jester

, scotmany}

The trio of town wagons means there had to be some scum involved. A confirmed scum, The Jester, was on two of the wagons. Scotmany, one of my current top suspects, was also on 2 of the wagons, so I see scotmany in an even worse light now. I do find it interesting that Incognito & Miztef are on all three wagons. For now I mainly attribute that to their prolific participation plus the lack of participation from other players.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

EBWOP:

So my role also functions like a cop that can get antitown/non-antitown results.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

I am open to the possibility of a cult in this game, but I won't be obsessing over it until there is significant evidence of one (i.e. cultist lynched or killed).

And I like my Flameaxe vote more and more now after his interaction with Incognito. And officially Flameaxe + his alt Mike O'Malley posted 30 times in other threads since the start of Day 2 before posting in this one. Anyone who uses his metagame to his defense uses BS, since he obviously is taking advantage of his metagame so that he could be a non-contributor and only post when prompted.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

I'm trying to defend myself with a meta-game? I'm trying to defend myself? I was V/LA all week, I just got back a few days ago. I can't catch up and make big posts for all of my games at once, that is very much impossible.

1. I never said you were defending yourself using your metagame. It's mainly a few others, like what Miztef just did in 337.
2. You failed to fulfill your promise to post late in D1, and you had 30 posts not in this game since the start of Day 2, and you only began posting here after you were called out by Incognito, which signaled that you had this game on the bottom of your priority list. Low priority :arrow: lack of motivation to contribute :arrow: scummy.
3. Make big posts? I would surprised to see you make big posts with actual analysis in this game, considering the fact that your only two posts greater than 2 lines is

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

UN-BIASED

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAH
AHAHAHAHA
AHAHAHA
AHAHAH
AHAHAH
AHAH
AHAH
AHA
AH

That was funny. Really.

and

Still.
Wearing.
Jeans.

Plus you have done zero helpful scumhunting analysis the entire game.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

Ok, I'm in three games with Flame right now. In all three, he has posted very little to absolutely nothing during the past week. So yeah, he hasn't been plenty active. I don't know where MM is getting this activity from.

If you search the posting history of flameaxe and his alt from
Sun Mar 23, 2008 4:08 pm EDT (Start of Day 2)
to
Mon Mar 24, 2008 10:39 pm EDT (His first post in this game on Day 2),
There were 30 posts.

What you are describing is not what a Gunsmith does so I now have problems with your claim.

:arrow: You doubt Gorrad's claim.
:arrow: Protown players would not fake claim.
:arrow: You think Gorrad might still be antitown alignment.
:arrow: I claimed result that confirmed Gorrad to be protown alignment.
:arrow: You must doubt my claim as well.
Is the final deduction, "you must doubt my claim", also your stance scotmany?

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

so wait, you are accusing me of lurking because I posted a lot in a span of a little over a day? Really?

Yes I am accusing you of lurking, because you posted 30 times in a span of a little over a day

without posting at all in this game

.

The least you could have done is have a post that says something like "I will conduct a reread and post my thoughts in my next post" so that we know you are not lurking. But you didn't even do that.

Plus the fact that you posted as soon as you were prompted reinforces your lurking and thus scumminess.

And I love how you keep promising to "catch up", "make big post", and "re-read", yet continuing deliver posts that are mostly one or two lines.

---

Yes, since I doubt's Gorrads because his rolename does not fit his role.

I'm thinking Miztef or Incognito

So how come Miztef and Incognito are your highest suspicions if you think both Gorrad and I are fake claiming?

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

Guardian: Welcome!

Scotmany: Thanks for clarifying the extent of your doubt.

I never promised a big post,

Never promised a big post? I thought you implied to make a big post in this quote:

I can't catch up and make big posts for all of my games at once, that is very much impossible.

I HAVE re-read, and I AM caught up. Vote: M-M The biggest thing you've done in this game is throw these bullshit cases up against me constantly.

You have anything else after your reread/catchup besides an OMGUSy vote on an uncounterclaimed power role?

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

Flameaxe: Since you ignored this question:

You have anything else after your reread/catchup besides an OMGUSy vote on an uncounterclaimed power role?

I assume your answer to that is no. Am I correct?

I'd be voting Flameaxe except that would be lynch -1 and force a claim immediately, and I think there's time for discussion and a few things to talk about.

Funny enough, no it wouldn't.

Yes, when I'm not exhausted.

I see, you must need some time and energy come up with a fake claim.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

Scotmany: Would you hammer flameaxe if there were an immediate deadline?

Flameaxe: Seems like the consensus is for you to claim. The longer you delay the more it hurts the town since the deadline is in 7 days.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

Flameaxe's post count in non-Portal-Mafia threads after the end of the Marathon: 33
Flamesaxe's post count in Portal Mafia after the end of the Marathon: 0

Enough said.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

Flameaxe, claim please.

I'm a NK immune miller vig.

ROFLMAO

Thanks for the temporary comical relief, scum.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

Bah that was my 4th night death in the last 4 weeks.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

Great job town in a well deserved win. I usually don't do this but I'm in "I told you so" mode because my constant pursuit of FlameaxeScum paid off

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

Yey, I win.

WARNING. Theory time;:
Pick one of the followings groups. Big possibility of clearing the group if any of them comes up town. At this moment, and at the rate we're going, I think that we wont lynch a scum today, but lets try to pick the best lynch for today.
Group A : Patrick, Incognito, Miztef
Group B : Flameaxe, Gorrad, Scotmany, maybe Sir Tornado
Group C : M&M, YourWorstNightmare
Group D: Jester and Ether (still dont have a read on them)

I was so wrong than it hurts.
Shame I was never here on time to defend myself, but luckily you lynched me and not Machiavellan.

I thought your groupings were actually pretty good. Group A ended up being all town. Group B got 2 of the 3 scum. Group C are also all town.