Mini 536: Heroes Smalltown. Game Over!

[curiouskarmadog]

Today is going to boil down to a choice, do you believe Adele or myself. Yvonne was the only person yesterday that didn’t vote me (I think) when I pushed to hang her because I thought she could be scum.

Not true, by a long way. None of myself, drippinggoofball, and shaft.ed voted you yesterday.

I meant expressed interested at one point or another (yesterday) in voting me. But you are right DGB didnt express that once…and I don’t think you did either Fonz, but I will have to reread again. But I am right, about this vote should be between Adele and I…it is obvious that we are either a.) on opposing alignments or b.) both scum.

After all the heat yesterday really want to town to believe that CKDscum killed Yvonne ? If I was scum, targeting anyone else would have been better than targeting CES. I understand this is a WIFOM defense, but seriously, that would have been a horrible play scum. Adele you are a liar, and I hope the town doesn’t believe it.

Targetting CES is unverifiable, so leaves you free to kill. If you are the scum killer, not only does it make sense for you to claim to have targetted CES or DGB, but it requires you to so claim. Targetting watcher, doc or motivator would likely have seen you strung up.

Fonz, who do you think I should have jailed after yesterday? I could have not jailed anyone (but I would be in the same position) So I am strung up if I target them (doc, watcher, motivator) or I am in the position I am in now. Great.

Also did you say anything about DGB being jailed last night when Cicero said this?

No they cant watch her. And what's worse, if the watchers decided to watch TSQ/CES, what DG did last night would preclude them from seeing anything TSQ/CES might try to do. (By which I of course mean shoot somebody).

Which means she's a rockin' choice for a jail cell if she lives through the day.

It was on Page 53, I thought that CES might be sending in the kill if he was scum or he would be assumed unwatched if someone tried to kill him. I thought he was the best choice between DGB and CES.

And I simply don't buy the notion that it makes particularly little sense for CKD scum to kill Yvonne. You weren't the most anti-Yvonne player yesterday by any means.

My argument was wasn’t that I was anti-yvonne (even though I was), it was that she was one of the few that wasn’t anti-CKD (that much).

Also after all the crap you gave me yesterday, why didn’t Cicero and shafted target Adele?

Strawman? There seems to me no particular reason to network Adele. Cicero's ability isn't a power, so can't be passed on. As for shaft.ed, well, are you really trying to argue there was only one acceptable target for him last night?

Why didn’t you say this yesterday when Cicero claimed to target Adele but was blocked because I jailed her? I didn’t target Adele again because I thought maybe shafted and Cicero would target her again…so I think this is a fair question. I thought most of the reason it was so “anti-town” to target Adele yesterday was because she didn’t get shafted’s powers, Cicero couldn’t put her in the network, and you couldn’t give her your powers, etc etc. I just wondered why he felt Yvonne was a better target than Adele.

Also, didn’t any of you (Cicero, Shafted, or Fonz) discuss anything last night that could share some light on anything today?

[curiouskarmadog]

and who could be Adele's scum buddies?

[curiouskarmadog]

Fine but that doesnt really answer my 1482.

I'm still inclined to vote CKD. If he comes up town it's his own fault for terrible night choices. If he's scum and I vote to lynch the watcher that fingered him I'll feel like a fucking idiot.

Still thinking though.

terrible night choices? the only person

you

say I should (now) target would have been DGB...it was terrible yesterday because I targetted Adele, now it is terrible when I target CES..

Adele, you did fake claim. I did not target Yvonne in any way...it was a lucky break for you that you got to go last. You did fake claim. You saw that I said targetted CES and you know (since you are in the only "watcher" now) that you could safely claim that I targetted Yvonne without be countered. If I was scum (those words, I think will be the arguement for both of us today) why would I submit the kill, You are suggesting that DGB is my scum partner, why wouldnt DGB submit the kill if no one could watch her? Your arguement is flawed.

And Cicero you are cleared for night action for Night 1 and/or 3 (unless shafted and/or fonz are part of your team)...I am pretty sure Adele must have made the kill. Adele kills the watcher, cant be countered or watched, and leaves herself open to almost claim anything today.

[curiouskarmadog]

adele, please tell me who i could possibly be scum paired with to make it wise for me to submit a kill last night?

Well who knows what you would have said you targetted if you went earlier in the day...no doubt you had plans for both..I do remember you yesterday saying that you were either going to go last or first..did you actually ever say that you would submit to the will of the dice roll? I remember, saying "well lets make it an issue tomorrow if it is her term to claim and she makes issue of it"

also there is another theory that has been presented..we are scum together.

[curiouskarmadog]

I was under the impression that she couldnt be watched,

Mod, can DGB be watched if she submitted a kill? Meaning if a watcher watched Person A and DGB killed person A, can a watcher see this?

Cicero, I targetted CES for a couple reasons, one I thought because of his vote on me yesterday he could be scum, thus trying to stop a kill or that the scum wouldnt think i would target him, thus stopping a kill...I now think mostly likely CES is town, because a scum group with CES in it would have utilized him last night to make the kill.

Also Cicero, your networking..can shafted and fonz talk to each other, or can they only talk to you?

Adele, I can role block, why would I send the kill if I was scum...if fonz was my scum partner, he could say he targetted anyone (like you for instance) and no one would be none the wiser, if shafted was my scum partner, he could just say he targetted whoever was killed and no one would be able to confirm it..how does it make sense that I would submit the kill? It doesnt.

...you know this is a weak arguement...you screwed up by lying and saying I made the kill it doesnt make sense...if I was part of the scum team yesterday why didnt we take out Yvonne while I blocked you?....

But Adele, how easy it was it for you to submit the kill...lets say for instance you went first, you could have easily said, I watched Yvonne, and Fonz targetted her...or DGB targetted her...no way we could have known if you were lying....this is espeically true if shafted is scum with you...because you would know who he would claim he motivated. Shafted, again, why didnt you target adele last night?

Mod another question, if shafted targetted Adele, would Adele have been notified of this BEFORE she was able to submit the kill?

[curiouskarmadog]

Cicero that is one reason why I didnt jail Adele again. and in reference to me "sucking" as a jailkeeper...will you still say that if we find out Adele is indeed scum?

[curiouskarmadog]

so, your answer is yes, I still suck as a jailkeeper even if Adele turns up scum? so in your opinion the only safe people to jail in the game is you and DGB?

[curiouskarmadog]

so it would be common knowledge that the most obvious choice for the jailkeeper to target DGB at this point? And that makes me a bad jailkeeper because I didnt make the most obvious choice? Also, Cicero would it have been anymore confirmable for me to target DGB?

Cicero,

currently

what in your opinion what makes more sense (or is more believeable) that a.) I jailkeeperscum submitted the kill on yvonne, or b.) adelescum fakeclaim that I submitted the kill on yvonne after seeing that I targetted CES.

[curiouskarmadog]

Cicero, I think our play styles are just different. I guess we should just put this conversation on hold until end game.

However, I am curious about this answer...

Also, Cicero would it have been anymore confirmable for me to target DGB?

Yeah, Adele and my defenses are chalked full of WIFOM, but really it whcih WIFOM is more beleiveable...at least the decision is easier (in a way) today, the lynch is obviously me or her. Harder though, because a mislynch will most likely end in the scum winning.

[curiouskarmadog]

It isn't an end game conversation. It's a why should I trust CKD conversation. Everyone in here should be doing what they can to give themselves an alibi or a reason to view them as town. You have not. You targetted Gorgon. That was good and netted us a big result. Well done. But at that point in the game everyone had an incentive to find and kill Sylar. Scum and town alike. Since that time your insistence on doing the unexpected has been an impediment to town. You arent really seeing the big picture.

Unless you are absolutely sure DGB is town, how can you possibly justify letting her roam free as a member of the town? Two nights in a row you've articulated watcher impeding choices. You jail one watcher. Then you refuse to target the watcher proof (or maybe watcher proof, apparently you are no clearer on the mechanism than I am) player, which is quite obviously the perfect use for your power. So it leaves me asking why I should believe CKD is town and the only reason I can come up with is that he sounds insulted when I call him scum, and I dont know you well enough to know how well you feign indignation. Yet I'm supposed to follow your WIFOM and lynch the watcher on the word of you who has given me no good reason to trust your word.

Do you see my problem? If I vote for you and town loses it's a reasonable decision. If I vote for Adele and I'm wrong, I look like a fucking idiot. So THAT is the power you've given to scum, if you aren't scum.

so if I am scum are you saying that DGB must be scum too? If so, why did I submit the kill when it would have benefited the scum more for me to jail someone? If DGB can be seen killing someone, why is it an issue if she is "roams free"? We have to wait for the MOd clarification on this. Again, would I be any more confirmable if I targetted DGB? If I jailed DGB and Adele again said I killed Ynonne, would that change anything?

[curiouskarmadog]

bold is me.

Adele, I can role block, why would I send the kill if I was scum...if fonz was my scum partner, he could say he targetted anyone (like you for instance) and no one would be none the wiser

Not true. It made most sense for Fonz to target me last night, so that I could gain that power. And had he

not

targeted me, but claimed this morning that he

had

, I'd know he was lying because I find out with my watching results whether I've gained any powers overnight.

Why does it make the most sense for Fonz to target you last night over Yvonne? so you can get his powers? Wouldnt it have made more "sense" for Fonz to target you Night 1 instead? Obviously you were not his target Night 1, Fonz, I think it is a good time to tell us your actions for the other nights.

if shafted was my scum partner, he could just say he targetted whoever was killed and no one would be able to confirm it..

Exactly. He'd have to put himself at the scene of the crime and put himself in the frame for the killing. If he was the only one who couldn't prove he was elsewhere, plus was the only one that had to

claim

to have been there, he'd be a very likely lynch for today.

but if we were scum together, why would I submit the kill versus shafted when I could have just blocked you. And before you say "you would be in the same position you were yesterday" please tell me with my claim today how am not in the same position?

how does it make sense that I would submit the kill?

1. The unpredictability that means so much to you
2. because if you claim to have targeted CES - like you did - the only proof for or against is if I watched either CES or your true target. Making you a lower risk to perform the kill than several others

Who should I have jailed last night in your point of view? DGB? same position. Cicero, then he could not confirm is night choices..no one? same position.

...you know this is a weak arguement...you screwed up by lying and saying I made the kill it doesnt make sense...if I was part of the scum team yesterday why didnt we take out Yvonne while I blocked you?....

1. Because the Bomb was a higher danger to you as scum.

Please explain to me how the bomb is higher danger? Seems to me mathcam had didnt have much problem with me. I cant imagine he woul dhave any issue with me after Gorgon's alignment was discovered

2. Because, blocking me, you didn't know if she was being protected by a (potentially) motivated doc.

this doesnt make any sense. what does blocking you have to do with taking out Yvonne and being worried if she was protected?

3. It would've made you look even more suspicious as I'd made it somewhat clear that I consider Yvonne a high-value player for me to watch.

when did you do that?

Mostly, I'm guessing, 1 – the bomb couldn't be lynched without giving the town a one-shot doublelynch, and could potentially be a seriously dangerous wildcard in LyLo.

But Adele, how easy it was it for you to submit the kill...lets say for instance you went first, you could have easily said, I watched Yvonne, and Fonz targetted her...or DGB targetted her...no way we could have known if you were lying....

If I didn't watch Yvonne, I wouldn't know who targeted her. I'd have to make them up.

So say I did what you suggest above; I said that Fonz alone targeted her. Well then Fonz would say in his next post, "Uh, no I didn't". Then shafted would say "I did, though". Then the town would know that either shafted AND Fonz were scum, or I was (or all three of us). It's too high-risk a strategy for the scum to reasonably have gone for last night; it's implausible.

it not implausible..lets say shafted or fonz is on you scum team? then the odd man out would have to scum and you would be pushing their lynch today. Take out the name Fonz and add my name and we have the same situation dont we?

In other words, yeah, plenty of people might know I was lying - everyone I said was in place X but wasn't

plus

everyone I said wasn't in place X but was. That's what makes faking results so hard for the watcher.

you just faked this one Adele, wasnt so hard now was it? Really is it hard. I am sure you consulted with your team about what you would do if you went first and what you would have done if you went later..I am sure you had plans for everything...dont try to shove down our throats that making up a watcher claim is hard to do with 2 other scum to back you up

[curiouskarmadog]

so if I am scum are you saying that DGB must be scum too?

No. I'm saying a townie wouldnt know DGBs alignment and would lock her up in order to avoid sewing seeds of confusion. Scum would leave her free precisely to sew seeds of confusion and defend his bad choices by arguing that he was trying to outsmart the scum. If you are scum, you still would have been better served jailing DGB because it was the townie move. But someone has to be free to kill out of the scum team. And jailing DGB risked having DGB try to use her power and thereby being able to confirm or deny your whereabouts.

If so, why did I submit the kill when it would have benefited the scum more for me to jail someone?

If DGB can be seen killing someone, why is it an issue if she is "roams free"? We have to wait for the MOd clarification on this.

No one was clear on that. We've been acting under the impression that she could perform an undetected kill or aid in the commission of an undetected kill. If you were unsure of that the right move was to jail her.

Again, would I be any more confirmable if I targetted DGB? If I jailed DGB and Adele again said I killed Ynonne, would that change anything?

No, because we had already gotten DGB to agree not to use her powers. But again you deftly shift the issue. A townie would be more concerned with what DGB could do to impede the watchers or doc if allowed to run free. If she's scum, she can sidle up next to the victim and block doc protection and (we think) impede watchers. Why are you so constantly cool with letting that power roam free?

But if she used that power (especially after she said she wouldnt) that would be a huge scum sign. Now we know that she did not use that power. The night before she used it on CES (still dont know why). I dont feel like I am letting a huge power roam free, especially if she used said power I assume we all would know. (again I dont know how night notification go).

[curiouskarmadog]

Seems to me that if she was scum she could have used her power (the night before) on someone other than CES and we would have known it. If I would have targetted her last night we could not have tested her word and that information would be lost.

[curiouskarmadog]

again, I am not certian how failed notices work at night.

well, if she targetted a watcher (they would have gotten a fail at night right?) would shafted and fonz be notified if there night actions failed? lets say shafted claimed he targetted X and that person said that shafted did not target him..either shafted was lying or DGB was involved. if fonz said he protected person X and that person died, eithe fonz was lying or DGB was involved...none of those things occured yesterday.

[curiouskarmadog]

DGB, I am..

[curiouskarmadog]

post 1468

[curiouskarmadog]

so your thoughts now you know I voted Adele?

[curiouskarmadog]

what facts?

[curiouskarmadog]

DGB, do you think I should have targetted you last night? why?

[curiouskarmadog]

(sent PM to Mod to answer end game questions)

Mod, can DGB be watched if she submitted a kill? Meaning if a watcher watched Person A and DGB killed person A, can a watcher see this?

Mod another question, if shafted targetted Adele, would Adele have been notified of this BEFORE she was able to submit the kill?

[curiouskarmadog]

shafted do you know for a fact that DGB cant be seen killing someone?

[curiouskarmadog]

Shaft.ed, I doubt he thought it through.

Especially if he's scum with DGb, I can definitely see him just opting to have "targetted" me without considering alternatives.

cicero, I've already made up my mind as regards today.

care to let us know what that is...I can only assume given your votes yesterday, but am glad to see that you are holding your vote...but if you believe that I am scum with DGB and that DGB can not be watched? Why do you think I would make the kill when I can jail and DGB cant be watched..it doesnt make any sense.

I know without a doubt that Adele is scum. We are at Lylo today. CES, I jailed you last night, I have a feeling that if you were scum with Adele, you have submitted the kill...I think you are town...please think it out.

scum only needs to convince town that I am scum and vote me..and we are done.

[curiouskarmadog]

DGB, you never answered the question, what facts support adele?

[curiouskarmadog]

but they are not even facts..ugh...this game is so fucking fustrating..

Cicero, if CES still holds that belief and his vote follows the game is done.

[curiouskarmadog]

I think CES is town..there are 3 scum left..4 to lynch

[curiouskarmadog]

unvote

Don't do anything crazy like that again. I won't unvote you a second time.

what if he votes me, you would vote him again?

what if he voted for me the first time?

DGB, why wouldnt you unvote, do you think cicero is scum?

[curiouskarmadog]

Gone 5 hours and I have 5+ pages to go through..typing as I am reading.

Lots of discussion about who can be scum with me…but almost none about Adele…this is sad.

Also, I really don't know what to say. CKD's

so

scummy,

so

town-damaging. I think I've played, in contrast, a reasonably tight, town-benefiting game.

oh and scum wouldnt do that? And how have I been damaging adele? By jailing you? I didnt jail you last night and no one targetted you, how am I damaging? How is jailing DGB damaging?

If someone besides CKD presents any arguments against me, I'm happy to try to refute them (heck, CKD too, if he promises not to give me 500 essay-length ones; like I say, I have limited time, and I'm really sorry about that,

hey a reason to lurk, you do however have plenty of time to post junk in the GD.

if I turn into a player who loses the game for town for playing tight and being fundamental in LyLo and being trusted less than someone who spits in the town's face.

I spit in the town's face? You are ridiculous. Town, when you discover that Adele is scum, will someone please tell me how jailling her was spitting in the town's face (this conversation will probably take place end game, but I want this addressed)

Yes.. <two periods are better than one.

I'm still waiting for the discussion as to why Adele scum would finger CKD. I've got nothing.

Because she claimed after I did…she saw that I targeted CES, it was a safe claim for her to do that couldn’t be countered. She could have watched last night and had a scum partner kill, there are several people here that do not have confirmed actions. Depending on when the order she went today she could mold her claim to finger anyone town. what is hard about that?


CES has voted me….oh look so has Cicero…oh wait Cicero unvoted…at –2…great. Well, I think CES is town so it is only a matter of time...still reading

WHY ISNT ANYONE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT ADELE’S POSSIBLE SCUM PARTNERS?! ANYONE CURIOUS WHY NO ONE IS BRINGING THAT UP?..still reading

CES, unvotes?..ummm, why? Because Cicero doesn’t want to put me back to –1? (confused).

Ahhh, Cicero leaves the hammer out (for just one minute) to test Fonz…Seems like a dangerous gambit for someone town to take….

One thing I think I have gleaned from this is that cicero is likely town. I find townies are more likely to start the "you must be scum because no one hammered....." garbage in LyLo. Drunk townie at that, must be all that "networking."

well he could be scum trying to see if he could get a hammer (but he only left it there for a minute), or he is town who is certain I am scum, and he is scum hunting for tomorrow….know this, it is a dangerous game, Cicero, that you are playing…lynching me will not get you to tomorrow. I know I know….scum would say the same thing…I understand paranoia, but think about it,

still not sure why CES unvoted though….still reading.

And if CKD is the wrong lynch and we lynch him... well... the rest doesnt matter.

well at least someone gets it.

OK so if cicero, DGB, or CES could kindly tell me whether or not they are scumbuddies with Adele, then I can pick properly between CKD and Adele.

Thanks.

Well, since no one else will I will.

I think that Adele did indeed watch last night to help her fake claim. Well, I targeted CES last night, so he didn’t submit the kill if he is in the group. IF CES was scum with Adele, I don’t see why scum would not have had him submit the kill. I doubt that CES is scum, unless they felt that DGB should submit the kill. I doubt that an Adele/CES/DGB scum team would have had DGB send the kill because there was MUCH talk about me jailing DGB. Fonz didn’t hammer me, there is absolutely no reason for Fonzscum to not hammer me when given the shot. So that leaves Cicero/Shafted/DGB

Adele/DGB/Cicero, Fonz confirms Cicero N3, so Cicero did not submit the kill last night. DGB could have submitted the kill, but don’t think so because of the talk yesterday. Adele seeing that shafted claimed he targeted Yvonne could have faked claimed, but the smartest move would be to have Adele watch Yvonne to solidify her claim…think this pairing is unlikely…no need to continue to other nights.

Adele/DGB/Shafted…. Adele watched to see if anyone else targeted Yvonne, shafted submitted the kill. Adele covers shafted by saying he targeted Yvonne, DGB looks pretty and does nothing. OK, lets see if it could work the other nights. N1, Shafted targeted Yvonne (she confirmed), DGB or Adele could have targeted ZA, I doubt Adele would because she would need to say she took on powers…DGB could have submitted the kill. N2, Shafted or DGB could have submitted the kill N2, though I doubt shafted did. This could work, but I think it is a stretch.



Adele/Shafted/Cicero…Fonz confirms Cicero N3, so Cicero did not submit the kill last night. Adele watched to see if anyone else targeted Yvonne, shafted submitted the kill. Adele covers shafted by saying he targeted Yvonne…this could work, especially Night one, Cicero could have submitted the kill and claimed to have networked shafted. Cicero could have submitted the kill Night 2, and claimed to have targeted Adele, Adele who had watched (but failed because I jailed her, could have told Cicero before the day started in a PM that her watched failed). Also shafted could have submitted the kill N2 but I doubt it. This pairing could really work.

And I guess I will throw in

Adele/CES/DGB….. Adele seeing that shafted claimed he targeted Yvonne could have faked claimed, but the smartest move would be to have Adele watch Yvonne to solidify her claim…CES could not have submitted the kill because I jailed him….and I don’t think this scum pairing would have chosen DGB to make the kill over CES…this is an unlikely pairing.

Adele/Cicero/CES….doesn’t work.. Fonz confirms Cicero N3, so Cicero did not submit the kill last night. Adele seeing that shafted claimed he targeted Yvonne could have faked claimed, but the smartest move would be to have Adele watch Yvonne to solidify her claim and let CES make the kill…he couldn’t because I block him…this wont work either.

Adele/Shafted/CES… Adele watched to see if anyone else targeted Yvonne, shafted submitted the kill. Adele covers shafted by saying he targeted Yvonne..this could work…especially because shafted could not say he targeted anyone else and have the town believe it…thus not needing to use CES to make the kill..seems risky and a stretch, but could work. N1, it only makes sense that CES(shea) submitted the kill. N2 Shafted could have submitted the kill, but I doubt…CES could have also submitted the kill..this pairing is plausible, I guess…

To me the only pairing that really could work (ie makes sense) is Adele/Shafted/Cicero, followed by Adele/DGB/Shafted....and then MAYBE Adele/Shafted/CES

Wow, all cases have shafted in the scum pairing….I guess he wont be voting Adele today after all…

[curiouskarmadog]

didnt jail you last night and no one targetted you

No the Fonz did.

And CKD I like your analysis style. I've recently been trying to whittle away people from likely scum pairing based on kill availibitiy. I'll see what remains plausible from my knowledge.

right, but you and Cicero didnt, I actually figured that Fonz would have targetted Adele N1..at any rate, that is all you are commenting on?

Shafted, you did see that I have you in the top 3 scum pairings, right?

[curiouskarmadog]

I like milk..

DGB you thoughts on my break downs?

[curiouskarmadog]

I'd like for Adele to give us her scumpair breakdowns.

then I would like you hear your reactions to those too.

[curiouskarmadog]

CKD, you realise that if you are scum in this game, I am going to follow you around this site forever quoting your moral invective, bets, talk about endgame, and other wild tricks, right? You will NEVER be trusted in a game with me in it EVER EVER again.

fine, I understand, also, you never addressed my break downs...my top three scum pairing has you in it..

CKD, you realise that if you are scum in this game, I am going to follow you around this site forever quoting your moral invective, bets, talk about endgame, and other wild tricks, right? You will NEVER be trusted in a game with me in it EVER EVER again.

My meta on CKD is that he's an expert at the pulling of heartstrings and ought to never be trusted. Sorry, ongoing games, I invoke the fifth amendment.

you should also mention that that other game we are both still alive (alignments unknown).

[curiouskarmadog]

Conclusion, I think this analysis detracts from the idea that Adele is scum.

No, the analysis detracts from adele being scum WITHOUT you in it, there is a huge difference. After my breakdown of adele scum pairings, I have no doubt that you will be voting me today...or I should say, tha tyou wont be voting Adele today.

[curiouskarmadog]

DGB, if you really want to meta me you should check out Dead's game that I was in with Cicero, I was in much of the same position then I am in now...the scum (6 in that game) were all pushing for my lynch, commenting on how scummy I had been, of course, like this game it was also up to interpretation. I plead (much like I am about to here). So if you really are going to meta, meta a game that you actually know my alignment in.

Cicero, I need the town to trust me. It is already an uphill battle because I feel that CES is town and he had his mind made up yesterday. So, unless I can convince him, I need one of Adele’s scum partners to bus her. Not likely, now the talk mainly has revolved around me and my hanging. If you really are town, I am asking you to trust me. Adele is our scum. I give you my word, that if I am lying…I will go into the GD and open a trolling thread about myself, I know a hand full of people that would love that. Think about this game…what makes more sense as scum? That I the jailkeeperscum submitted the kill last night? If you believe that, what scum pairing could I be in that that would be a wise decision.

OR Adele/shafted are scum together, shafted claimed to target Yvonne instead killing her and Adele fakeclaims to a.) cover up shafted and b.)finger anyone she wants to at lylo today….to put them in a he said she said situation.

what is more plausible?

[curiouskarmadog]

Where we're at:

CES : CKD
cicero: CKD
Fonz: leaning CKD
shafted: undecided
DGB: uncreasingly leaning CKD, especially after shafted's analysis.

When the rest of you feel it's time to vote, I'm ready, too.

DGB, why the change of heart? Just yesterday you wanted Adele you do some breakdowns..today you are not interested? Why are you rushing it?..if you are ready to vote me..vote me, why do you need to confirmation for everyone else?

[curiouskarmadog]

CKD if you are town we need all of the townies to vote properly in order lynch the right person today. Alienating me without any case is not going to get you very far towards that goal.

And please stop with the out of thread crap. That has absolutely nothing to do with this game.

Also why the constant pandering to cicero? You only mention him, and CES peripherally. You need all three other townies to vote with you today for this game to keep going. Scum need only one townie to vote with them.

Shafted, you spent most of the day directing everyone to target adele with their powers..you had to figure that one of Yvonne's watches was going to target Adele, the other who knows...that is in your favor..but that really is it. Shafted I would be fucking amazed if you actually voted Adele today...

Any reason you didnt give the "has nothing to do with this game" speech to DGB when she talked about metas?

I am "pandering" to Cicero because I am on the fence about him, especially given DGB's inconsistent play today. If he is town, I need him to think...it is going to take all the town to vote correctly for this lynch.

[curiouskarmadog]

I understand, but unless his scumbuddies are bus'ing him, which is quite reasonable given that he was fingered in the NK, then there are too many people willing to lynch him.

Exactly. What this tells me is that Adele is probably town, and his buddies have no choice but to bus him.

DGB, who are my buddies?

[curiouskarmadog]

Where we're at:

CES : CKD
cicero: CKD
Fonz: leaning CKD
shafted: undecided
DGB: uncreasingly leaning CKD, especially after shafted's analysis.

When the rest of you feel it's time to vote, I'm ready, too.

DGB, why the change of heart? Just yesterday you wanted Adele you do some breakdowns..today you are not interested? Why are you rushing it?..if you are ready to vote me..vote me, why do you need to confirmation for everyone else?

suppose to read, you wanted Adele to do some breakdowns.

[curiouskarmadog]

DGB, why the change of heart? Just yesterday you wanted Adele you do some breakdowns..today you are not interested? Why are you rushing it?..if you are ready to vote me..vote me, why do you need to confirmation for everyone else?

shafted did it, which is even better than Adele doing it in some ways.

Confirmation IS needed, because as I explained earlier, today's lynch should be a cooperative decision. We can't have one player voting either you or Adele, and have the scum pile on. We need to make sure that more than one townie believes you are scum, and I think we have achieved this.

Shafted did Adele scum groups with him not in it...THAT is not CKD scum groups from Adele..

NOTHING that shafted did should have convinced you that Adele is town

....

[curiouskarmadog]

bold is me

Shafted, you spent most of the day directing everyone to target adele with their powers..you had to figure that one of Yvonne's watches was going to target Adele, the other who knows...that is in your favor..but that really is it. Shafted I would be fucking amazed if you actually voted Adele today...

Actually no that was Yvonne. I spent most of the day lynching Oman (yeah even more town cred there), and trying to diffuse the TSQ ZA spat that I felt was a major distraction.

this is not a true statement shafted, I can find at least 3 posts where you talked about the benefits of targetting Adele N1, do I need to post them so we can dispute?

And of anyone here, I think I have given Adele the hardest inspection today. I don't know why you keep saying I am the one that won't be voting her today. Go read today's events again, I am constantly trying to view both choices.

Yes compared to CES and DGB it does look like you are weighing both sides. However, actions speak louder than words....and if I was a betting man, I think i know what action you will do today....the only thing I dont know is what words you will put with it.

Any reason you didnt give the "has nothing to do with this game" speech to DGB when she talked about metas?

Because meta's establish a behavioral trend that is relevant to an individual's game play. You're just inciting a pissing match in the GD that is entirely irrelevant to this game. Do we know if you actually give a shit whether or not you are taunted in the GD? You really don't post there that often. Why should you care?

No one likes to be trolled, just because I dont post there often doesnt mean I dont read it.

I am "pandering" to Cicero because I am on the fence about him, especially given DGB's inconsistent play today. If he is town, I need him to think...it is going to take all the town to vote correctly for this lynch.

So your town is Cicero, DGB and CES. This makes no sense as Fonz is already proven not to be aligned with Adele. I suggest you rethink your alignments. From my perspective CES is most likely tied to Adelescum, I'd guess at DGB as the second. Cicero's likely town no matter which way you slice it.

Today, I never said I thought DGB or Cicero was town (they are the fence, but I am leaning to DGB as scum) I have said I strongly think Fonz and CES are town. Please post where I have said anything differently. I think you are scum shafted, and I have a feeling I know how your CKD scum groups will end.

OK, I need to get up the will to do the CKD scum pairing analysis.

[curiouskarmadog]

This was shafted's conclusion:

Conclusion, I think this analysis detracts from the idea that Adele is scum.

And yes, I reckon that shafted is the player I trust the most now, and pretty much all game in fact. He doesn't strike me as having an agenda.

again, nothing shafted said should have convinced you Adele is town....DGB, question, at what point did you start to think I was scum?

[curiouskarmadog]

also shafted, in your break down of the Adele scum teams, you didnt factor in that she claimed after you, so the fact that she said you targetted Yvonne means little... I know you mention the claim might be improvised, but so what? Successful scum advance in that skill. It seems like you are implying that jsut because Adele might have improvised her claim means that those pairs are unlikely...which indeed is not the case.

[curiouskarmadog]

And how have I been damaging adele? By jailing you? I didnt jail you last night and no one targetted you, how am I damaging? How is jailing DGB damaging?

I think you've confused yourself; your fakeclaim this morning was that you jailed CES, not DGB.

you know that was a typo, I jailed CES, I notice how you totally ignore the question, how is my jailing you or CES damaging? Please explain how I am damaging to the town.

If someone besides CKD presents any arguments against me, I'm happy to try to refute them (heck, CKD too, if he promises not to give me 500 essay-length ones; like I say, I have limited time, and I'm really sorry about that,

hey a reason to lurk, you do however have plenty of time to post junk in the GD.

Well, duh. The thing about posting junk is it takes minimal analysis, thought or time, so i can intersperse it with my other online responsibilities.

so you agree, you have given yourself a reason to lurk.

Adele/Shafted/Cicero…Fonz confirms Cicero N3, so Cicero did not submit the kill last night. Adele watched to see if anyone else targeted Yvonne, shafted submitted the kill. Adele covers shafted by saying he targeted Yvonne...this could work, especially Night one, Cicero could have submitted the kill and claimed to have networked shafted. Cicero could have submitted the kill Night 2, and claimed to have targeted Adele, Adele who had watched (

but failed because I jailed her, could have told Cicero before the day started in a PM that her watched failed

). Also shafted could have submitted the kill N2 but I doubt it. This pairing could really work.

Regarding the bold: No, I couldn't. When I get the information PM from the mod, the night is over. I have

never

deliberately broken any site rules, and would

never

communicate with scumbuddies during a no-contact period.

I don’t know when you are given information, you say when you are given information the night is over…how do I know that? Does Seol send you the information, THEN open the day? I don’t know. I am not implying that you are cheating, but I don’t know WHEN you are given the information. I assume Seol can send PMs and open the thread at the same time…at any rate, I not leaning toward Cicero any more…I think DGB is more likely.

To me the only pairing that really could work (ie makes sense) is Adele/Shafted/Cicero, followed by Adele/DGB/Shafted....and then MAYBE Adele/Shafted/CES

Interesting. I look forward to someone doing this sort of analysis on CKD... but seriously, i'm not the one to do it; you would experience the same sort of pain from my attempting that as we got from the above "If Fonz then CKD" fiasco.

And, no, CKD, it's not appropriate to try to get people to vote a certain way by promising them something after the game ends - regardless of whether that something is money, chocolates, or another stupid thread to clutter the GD up with. knowing how people generally post, though, and trying to read them, is part of the game.

If it is inappropriate, then I take back the offer. I have done it before in another game to call scum's bluff and that Mod said it was OK (cicero can verify)

What is your thoughts on the Adele/DGB/Shafted grouping..noticed you didn’t find anything wrong with that.

Also Adele, why arent you scum hunting today...arent you interesting in who my scum partners are? Why are you maximizing today to the best of your ability? Just want to throw your fake claim out there and hope for the best?

[curiouskarmadog]

fonz, interested in your thoughts in my scum pairings as well.

[curiouskarmadog]

with DGB waiting in the wings...this will be over shortly

[curiouskarmadog]

Also, once the game is over and if one fucking person says the town loss is my fault I will go ape shit..(cicero sort of implied that pages ago)...just telling you up front.

[curiouskarmadog]

shafted, as I think you are scum..you might want to wait..DGB is posting on site..I am sure that vote will be coming.

[curiouskarmadog]

we'll see

[curiouskarmadog]

well DGB just vote me then...and see.

[curiouskarmadog]

look, shafted is waiting..if he is your scum buddy like I am thinking..you two got me..just put an end to it, because the rest of the town doesnt really give a crap or there would be more analysis going on. I have put too much energy in this game as it is.

[curiouskarmadog]

I see shafted..but I am not at -1 yet am I?...

[curiouskarmadog]

shafted if you are not scum, then I really suck at this game and should maybe pick poker back up again.

[curiouskarmadog]

DGB what hook are you waiting for? You have put me at -1 before..what is the issue now?

[curiouskarmadog]

ok, so shafted and DGB are both not scum...jesus christ I am at a loss.

[curiouskarmadog]

Didn't you say shaft.ed was your number one most trusted player a couple hours ago?

that means little, yesterday she said she trusted me more than anyone.

[curiouskarmadog]

DGB what hook are you waiting for? You have put me at -1 before..what is the issue now?

I NEVER put you at minus 1. That was cicero and CES. Maybe the Nibblers are confusing... wasn't me.

you are right (maybe it was too many nibblers), but you DID say you were ready to lynch me..you were just waiting for the rest of the town...

[curiouskarmadog]

-1, didnt see that coming.

[curiouskarmadog]

and we are done.

good game scum

[curiouskarmadog]

so FOnz, Adele, DGB?

[curiouskarmadog]

Oh krap simulpost!

sure it was, I cant be this town let DGB fucking when a game...AS SCUM

[curiouskarmadog]

fonz, care to share light?

[curiouskarmadog]

so seriously shafted..you werent scum?

[curiouskarmadog]

well good game..

so now that it is know that Adele was scum, was it still bad that I targetted her?

also, did DGB send the kill last night?..should I have jailed him?

[curiouskarmadog]

so seriously shafted..you werent scum?

You did an AMAZING job. You were the star here. And shafted - you had us figured out daaaaays ago!

I didnt do shit..I didnt have shit figured out...Fonz was cleared in my mind..you know I actually lost sleep over this game last night? That my friends is someone who needs a life...UGH...

sorry shafted, after I cleared Fonz, you were the only one that made sense as an Adele scum partner.

[curiouskarmadog]

I guess it was then....my scumdar was correct (gorgon and Adele early ) but the use of my ability was way off..

was DGB really the best choice last night? I guess so....ugh, I am not taking full blame though..Scum played a great game, and CES didnt even read the thread.

[curiouskarmadog]

and Adele can bite my ass (with the upmost respect)..will have to remember the less is more thing.

but she too played a good game

[curiouskarmadog]

Yeah I'm a little annoyed that CES dropped his vote and then just disappeared like that. But O well I don't see it likely that me cic and him all would have swung over to Adele.

well I knew it was going to be an uphill battle for me today. Cicero I felt I almost had on my side, CES was too closed minded, CES, why did you even unvote anyway?

[curiouskarmadog]

Here's our night discussions. You may note that we didn't exactly understand the night action/motivation rules either.

I'd also note that this game was a lot closer than the perfect scum win result would suggest. If Adele had gotten lynched today, I'd have had no excuse to survive the night, so we'd be facing at best DGB in endgame. And i really felt, midway through today, that that was going to happen. Fortunately, cicero's gambit allowed me to 'prove' i wasn't Adele's buddy, and all the most plausible Adele scumgroups had me in them.

actually my thought process was if I DID somehow get Adele lynched today, I was going to jail Fonz..Fonz was cleared in my mind. After seeing the Adele scum, I figured townfonz would have protected me, and scum would figured I would jail fonz....so actually my dumbass thought process would have saved you again...I am almost afraid to read your scum chat.

[curiouskarmadog]

OUCH..

"I can't believe this town is dense enough to do anything that extravagantly anti-town, " Fonz in reference to the nolynch

from my point of view a no lynch, was better than me being lynched which I saw as the only other alternative...though think about it, if they lynched me yesterday the game would have been over.

[curiouskarmadog]

well, i at least I got Gorgon...umm, wonder who he tried to kill N1!?

Gorgon you around?

will second if someone nominates scum team