Mini 536: Heroes Smalltown. Game Over!

[DrippingGoofball]

I joined this game during night, forgot about it. I only joined to push Adele over the edge of insanity, but I never played a "smalltown" game before, I hardly even play open games.

I targetted Gorgon. I looked at the list, and the roles, and I picked him because...

...it would make Gorgon immune to being targeted by Powers for the night (which he already is on account of his role) and incapable of using his own Power (which is to hide).

I just laughed thinking at the giant migraine Seol would get trying to wrap his head around that one.

So... you want to kill Adele? I'm in. But first, I should read the game. Fasten your seatbelts.

[DrippingGoofball]

So we get rid of ZA and then have to deal with DGB? Ugh...I hate this game so much.

Hi.

[DrippingGoofball]

Random musings.

shaft.ed cannot possibly be scum on account of his role.
mathcam cannot possibly be scum on account of his role.
Yvonne cannot possibly be scum on account of her role.
The Fonz cannot possibly be scum on account of his role.

Adele is not likely to be scum on account of her role. I'll try to convince myself otherwise.
cicero is not likely to be scum, but iffy.

CKD's role might very well be scum.
TSQ might very well be scum.

Gorgon's role is VERY SK-ish. Very.

Looking at roles only...
I'd vote for:
1. Gorgon
2. TSQ/CKD
3. cicero/Adele

I can't vote for shaft.ed, mathcam, Yvonne, The Fonz. Not today anyway.

OK now I read the game, paying special attention to my top suspects.

[DrippingGoofball]

My own ability would certainly be useful in the hands of scum ... since it allows immunity from tracking, NKs (useful for all alignments since there are two killing groups), etc. In the hands of Sylar it would be pretty bad for the town, especially since Seol has confirmed that he could kill and phase out on the same night. Hopefully my ability will deter people from targeting me for NK, though ... Sylar and mafia alike can never be sure which nights I'm phased out on. As town, survival is the extent of my usefulness to the rest of the town, but at least that's something.

Here Gorgon seems to be acutely aware of notions like being tracked or not, detering players from targetting him at night, SURVIVAL is the extent of his usefulness... I find that post, alone and in itself, a MEGA SK tell.

In his post #6, Gorgon votes CKD. Interesting choice: CKD is one role that can definitely prevent him from nightkilling. Reason given: "wavering in his accusations." Pretty weak reason.

Then he votes Zoneace, and stays on this aborted wagon for a long long time. Meanwhile he continues to go after CKD. Doesn't vote for CKD again. Very focused and tunnel-visioned on CKD.

Then he comes in sporadically with excuses for inactivity. In his last post, Jan 11, Gorgon approves of the Oman lynch without much explanation, and without having expressed much prior suspicion of Oman beforehand. Like, you know, whatever wagon, he approves.

[DrippingGoofball]

Someone want to run by me why Gorgon is 50/50 the SK again? Or rather, for the first time because I don't think I've seen it done.

DGB, this is why I hate playing with you. You're the definition of dislogic. People have made the argument of a weighting system to balance scumminess with roles, and while I personally disagree with I some merit to it. But making the argument that someone is SCUM or not simply based on their role is completely wrong. Like, I can't even begin to think of a justification for it.

Hey! Who's not paying attention now? I said that I was first going to lay out arguments relating to roles. Then I would lay out arguments on individual players according to what they posted in the game.

Naturally, as my analysis progresses, I will include the role information as part of my famous dyslogic, but it's not the end all conclusion by any stretch.

[DrippingGoofball]

BTW - I will look at every player in detail, in alphetical order. Today I will look at Adele (how lucky is that?) and cicero. I'll do the rest later.

[DrippingGoofball]

She dove in without reading carefully again.

did she admit to that?

No.

Yes I did. What I said is that I am first starting by looking at what can be inferred from the roles. But now I'm sitting down and going to be Adele's biggest nightmare. Yay!

davidangelsummers wrote:
Is their any role that people would definitely not like me to protect tonight?
Obviously a lot of people will be hesitant to target me tonight (Sad) but I don't think you need to be. If you were to protect me, aside from being safer, I'd also gain a skill that's very useful to the town. But of course, since you want the scum not to know who you're targeting, you shouldn't pick someone (too guessable) but pick 3ish different people and randomise the selection (diceroll or if you're a pedant, random.org). Scum can't outplay you if it's not your decision Wink.

Here she tries to direct another player trying to look like she's not directing another player. Failed.

[quote="JDodge']Unvote, vote: Oman

I do.
Vote: JDodge[/quote]Here defends a townie with scummy certainty.

[quote="Oman"Adele is a key person to dicover the alignment of.[/quote]
/agree in theory, but there's no such thing as confirmation here, only accusation. I mean, there's no cop that can investigate me and say "Yup, she's clean". So it reads to me just like you want me to be subject to higher-than-average suspicion and scrutiny.[/quote]Rubs me the wrong way.

Just to be completely self obsessed and go through everyone whether my power makes me a good or bad target:
Zindaras: Mohinder Suresh, Networker - Neutral; I can't absorb this ability
mathcam: Ted Sprague, Walking Bomb - Bad, obv Razz
Oman: Eden McCain, Subliminal Influencer - Bad, as it devalues other roles
curiouskarmadog: The man with the horn-rimmed glasses, Jailkeeper - Neutral (obviously I'd prefer not, but it doesn't have knock-on effects in terms of my ability)
JDodge: the Haitian, Dampener - Damps my ability to learn. Bad, if only town-positive powers are targeting me.
shaft.ed: Nathan Petrelli, Motivator - Potentially really good... I'm gonna say good
Thestatusquo: Ando Masahashi, Vanilla - Neutral Razz
ZONEACE: Matt Parkman, Tracker - Good.
Gorgon: DL Hawkins, Hider - Good
YvonneSeer: Claude Rains, Watcher - Good
davidangelsummers: Daniel Linderman, Doctor - Good

The red part weirds me out.

Adele: I would want to know exactly which powers she is getting and why. I think it would be helpful for judging her and her targeters alignments.

If you're looking to catch me out, remember that I'm a self-watcher, so I'd know that Claude was watching me, and know not to lie.
If you're looking to catch my targeters out, remember I'm a self-watcher, so I'd be able to perform that function.
If you're looking to force me to tell the truth, that makes sense - but remember that if I lied my targeters could reveal me.

david is the doctor, and unlikely scum. They sure aren't buddies; but this strikes me as a scum interacting with a townie.

I'd like as many players as possible - especially investigative players - to make a commitment to not lie, and a corollary commitment from as many as possible to enforce this by agreeing that if someone is caught in a lie they are the priority lynch.

[/quote]Adele seems to have caught Yvonne in a lie. Why isn't she pursuing it more aggressively? What I am missing? Was it just a joke?

[DrippingGoofball]

Next up: cicero. Meta: he's posting as much, as frequently, and as hotly as I've seen him as town. However he's very quick to announce his enthusiastic willingness to vote Oman. That's not a scum move, because there was no call to bus Oman at that point, he was easy to defend, therefore, a poor bus'ing choice. But then he goes overboard and becomes paranoid about Oman being Sylar. I agree with cicero's assessment of shafted, Gorgon and Yvonne: shafted is "the man" Gorgon is "not trusted" and Yvonne is "lurking noobscum."

But then he quickly voted for Oman, and never unvoted.

Behaviorally, I'd peg him as SK. He's not tying himself to anyone, talking a lot, and very happy to get rid of the wagon leader without delay.

[DrippingGoofball]

DGB you still have not confirmed that you understand that ANY ROLE could be scum in this game. Your initial posts demonstrated a complete misunderstanding of that aspect of the game. Do you now understand that ANY ROLE HAS AN EQUAL CHANCE OF BEING SCUM? Roles get picked. Then who is scummed gets randomly picked. Do you get that?

Aye, I have trouble wrapping my head around this.

[DrippingGoofball]

To others. I'm gonna go ahead and guess that Adele is probably scum based on the simple principle that Adele is still alive.

Discuss.

Fascinating. I love this. Adele, Fritzler, Quagmire, MoS will kill me on Night 0 if they can - they can't help themselves. You can take it to the bank. Maybe I should add TSQ to the list.

[DrippingGoofball]

To others. I'm gonna go ahead and guess that Adele is probably scum based on the simple principle that Adele is still alive.

Discuss.

This is the dumbest thing I've said out loud in a mafia game ever. Pressed send and then gave myself a giant headsmack.

My apologies.

I disagree. Anyway. Stop distracting me. Gonna skip the alphabetical order business because I want to take a closer look at Gorgon and mathcam. Mathcam is a banana peel.

[DrippingGoofball]

Analysing mathcam is like testing a calculator for rounding errors.

Hypothesis: mathcam is scum.

That's the second time shaft.ed's jumped on a chance to attack someone that could have been easily prevented with a closer reading. To this credit, he's since backed down from one of them, but given how carefully he's been paying attention to the rules, I can't help but feel that it's scummy that he hasn't been paying similar attention to player's posts.

Implacable logic.
Lemma: mathcscum not bloody likely to slip up.

While I'm not in 100% agreement with this plan (the same role may be particularly useful to scum, but also to town; should be working from a weighted net perspective of "cool scum" minus "cool town"?)

I may be misreading this sentence, but if the parenthetical remark is a suggestion to improve the plan, then I should point out that this was already part of the original plan:

Until I see something particularly scummy, it seems sensible to figure out which of the roles

are significantly more harmful if they are in the hands of scum than they are beneficial if they're in the hands of pro-town players

.

The above exchange seems extraordinarily contrived, circular, and incestuous. Read again: "if the parenthetical remark is a suggestion to improve the plan, then I should point out that this was already part of the original plan" - why is that worth a discussion? I'm weirded out.
Corollary: mathcam is easily bogged down in trivial semantics with Adele. Why?

Oman: I think the most important thing is that you don't use your power indiscriminately -- if you feel at some point during the game that you can set up a beautiful trap to catch someone in a lie, then go for it, but take into account the consequences and potential confusion if you're wrong. I'm not sure there's any more guidance anyone can offer.

Solving for Oman: Here mathcam plays Mr. Obvious. Why?

If we have cops A, B, C, then on day 2, we could make cop A reveal first, then cop B, then cop C. On day 3, we permute the order so that B reveals first, then C, then A, etc.

OMG I so don't want mathcam to be scum. He's totally going to take us for a ride.
But then after all this subtle, over-my-head blah blah, mathcam simply "I think I'm leaving my vote on JDodge, with no new reasons than I had before (except possibly for increased lurking)." Urgh.

mathcam's reasoning for voting Oman was incredibly weak. Strange considering how they both somewhat agreed on the value of "no lynch." Strange, very strange. Then long after, after post after post of hardly mentioning Oman and gettin bogged down in subtleties, "Still like lynching Oman."

Strong suggestion: mathcam does NOT get a free pass in this game. He talks a slick, detail-oriented game. But when scrutinizing the big picture, I see some wishy-washy bandwagon riding all day yesterday. I don't like it.

Today, matchcam keeps repeating that Gorgon is the lynch. I would tend to agree with this; however, comparing mathcam's behavior yesterday, and his behavior today (much more boldly going after one player) gives me cause for concern, and we shouldn't rush lynching Gorgon without taking an in-depth look at mathcam himself.

QED

[DrippingGoofball]

In the meantime, we can force mathcam's Pentium Processor to play "pin the donkey" at soldering gun point.

[DrippingGoofball]

Cicero. Does mathcam seem scummy to you? For a computer?

[DrippingGoofball]

Why you askin' me in particular?

You're around and you're typing.

Of course anyone is welcome to take a shot at examining mathcam's dot matrix, perforated paper output, for COBOL errors, and re-submit to the mainframe.

[DrippingGoofball]

Really? It was a NY game if I recall correctly. I was NK'd Night 0, you were lynched Day 1, and you were scum. It wasn't you?

[DrippingGoofball]

mod, can you replace DGB, please?

And I haven't gotten to you yet! OK you're next.

[DrippingGoofball]

TSQ:
Post #1: "Believe me, Jdodge will help us lynch Oman, but ZONEFACE is the first bandwagon." I bet that if TSQ is scum, one of JDodge, Oman, and Zoneface is his buddy. Since we know it's not Oman, I know it's not me,
Post #2-3: One word, single emoticon.
Post #4: Votes Zoneace, no reason stated.
Post #5: Confirm votes Zoneace, for lurking, which is ironic coming from TSQ thus far.
Post #6: FOS mathcam, no reason stated.
Post #7: Urges a Zoneace lynch because of Zonace's policy vote on himself.
Post #8: FOS JDdodge, no reason stated.
Post #9: un-FOS JDdodge, mathcam, no reason stated.
Post #10: Defends CKD.
Post #11: Berates Zoneace for unoriginal insight.
Post #12: Berates Zoneace for not wanting to discuss mathcam's scheme.
Post #13: Berates Yvonne for not discussing enough when he's hardly discussin himself.
Post #14: Berates someone for crappy logic with a single sentence.
Post #15: Berates shafted for crappy logic with a single sentence.
Post #16: Demands Adele be prodded.
Post #18: Berates someone for not paying attention.
Post #20: At last, content! Unfortunately it's trite nonsense about wifom. Too bad.
Post #21: Asks a one-line question.
Post #22: Admits to misreading post.
Post #23: Asks a one-line question.
Post #24: Admits to misreading post. Jokes with Adele.
Post #25: Chides JDodge.
Post #26: Mr Obvious much?
Post #27: Mr Obvious much?
Post #28: Berates Zoneace for not answering questions.
Post #29: Berates Zoneace for sport.
Post #30: Berates Adele. I approve.
Post #31: Lists 4 questions for Zoneace, which smell of a trap. Because Zoneace really has no reason not to answer these questions if he's scum - it's not like the in themselves, his answers are indicative of anything. I think TSQ is trying to push Zoneace's buttons in order to trip him up and upset him.
Post #32: Chides shafted.
Post #33: FOS's CKD, for "over-reacting."
Post #34: Expands on why he finds CKD suspicious. It smells like an afterthought, though. I don't like it.
Post #35: Votes CKD; FOS Zoneace; FOS shafted
Posts #36-37-38-39-41: One-word posts, or close to one word.
Post #42: Votes Zoneace again.
Post #43: TSQ gets into policy vote argument with Zoneace. Very scummy. "You know, just because I don't like you doesn't mean I am bringing that into the game." Yeah right, like we're all idiots and we can't see that's exactly what you're doing.
Post #44: Points out that Zoneace ignored post 43 (Zoneace is taking the high road IMHO).
Posts #45-46: Rubbish.
Post #47: Demands that more attention be paid to the contrived feud between himself and Zoneace. VERY SCUMMY.
Posts #48: Continues to distract with his Zoneace agenda.
Posts #49-50: Suddenly gets defensive.
Post #51: Mr Obvious states that no lynch is not a good idea.
Post #52: Berates shafted with cross-posting/timing semantics.
Post #53: Berates shafted for parroting him. What? Is shafted going after Zoneace?
Post #54: Demands prod of JDodge and Oman.
Post #55: If Oman is town, Adele is cleared. Mmmmm.... is she???
Post #57: votes back shafted.
Post #58: Demands to be replaced to run away from Zoneace.
Post #59: More drama about being replaced to run away from Zoneace.
Post #60: "I would continue playing this game only if Zoneace will stop trying to pass off every action I make as somehow having to do with him. Otherwise, I am out of here. Zoneace, you willing to do that?" Why doesn't TSQ do that himself?
Post #61: Enlightens CKD.
Post #63: Does not agree with LAL.
Posts #64-65-66-67-68: More drama with Zoneace.
Post #69: Asks a useless question.
Post #70: Berates Adele and votes Adele.

...to be continued...

[DrippingGoofball]

What about having ckd jail Gorgon every night from now on?

Hmmmmm.... this is a VERY odd post... what is it about Gorgon's tutu that you want to save him, and keep him alive as long as CKD is alive?

When I'm done with TSQ, you're next under the magnigoofballing glass.

[DrippingGoofball]

TSQ cont'd
Posts #74-75-76-78: Hotly defends town lying.
Post #79: Votes Zoneace again.
Post #80: Suddenly declares shafted to be town.
Posts #82-83: Berates Zoneace for keeling over and not arguing back. I think his DWA tell is bunk.
Post 84: Tunnel vision on Zoneace reaches its apex.
Post 85: Now, I really like this post. It looks like TSQ has suddenly awakened and tries to find scum. He's distracting himself silly with that dumb feud he's having with Zoneace, though, it's really ruining his game.

However - on account of that single post - and I really am disapppointed to say this, haha, I have to reluctantly conclude that TSQ is probable town.

[DrippingGoofball]

YvonneSeer:
"I find mathcam the most pro-town because I agree with what he has come up with."

Ouch. Hail to the mainframe.

"CKD, I think, was a little too opportunistic in voting mathcam after shaft.ed did"

Hmmm, defending matchcam again.

"TSQ, I really didn't like your early FoSes on mathcam"

Hmmm, here's mathcam again.

"Sorry, I don't understand. How will the SK be found out through this?"

Hmmm. Very concerned with SK.

"Hold on there, david, what exactly do you mean when you say you'd rather lose Gorgon than CKD based on their roles."

Hmmm. Protects Gorgon.

"Going by instinct however, I've a generally bad feeling about Adele. Can't really explain it"

Hmmmm. Maybe she's your buddy.

"Also, discuss whether Gorgon should or should not reveal whether he phased out on nights."

Hmmm. Avoids forcing Gorgon, only discussion.

"But seriously though, what makes you think I'm the SK?"
Hmmmm. It's like, how did you catch me?

"Hmm? But the SK can use a power in addition to his NK."

Hmmmm. Acutely aware of SK etc.

"Yes, in fact, Gorgon is most likely to be the SK at this point, and a rather dangerous SK if so."

Hmmmm. Now that SHE's accused of being SK, suddenly, she stops defending Gorgon, she ACCUSES Gorgon.

"Or, Gorgon is the SK and he got Jailed."

Hmmm. Did she think of this all night when deciding who to kill?

"No, shaft.ed is also right. It could either be that the SK targetted a Jailed Gorgon or a Jailed Gorgon could not perform the SK kill."

Hmmmm. In the know, much?

"Don't be giving ideas for the SK, man."

Hmmm. Almost obsessed with SK.

"My targets were Adele and shaft.ed."

Hmmmm. I understand Adele, but why shafted? YOU never suspected shafted.

"I passed on my powers 'cause I thought the SK would kill me last night. The voices in my head are still screaming "Adele's scum!!!". No idea why."

Hmmm. Again that bizarre obsession with the SK.

"What about having ckd jail Gorgon every night from now on?"

WOW.

[DrippingGoofball]

Yvonne Seer:

The only question I have regarding her, is whether she's the SK, or whether she's scum.

I would lean scum, because of the way she linked herself to some players, but completely ignored others.

She' linked to:

mathcam

: early defense scumtell.

Gorgon

: protects a lot in indirect ways scumtell.

Adele

: thinks Adele is scum for no real reason, distancing scumtell.

shafted

: strange night choice scumtell.

The manner in which she links herself to a short player list with either defense or baseless distancing screams scum to me, rather than SK.

The SK obsession is just weird. I think she's trying to look like she's looking hard for the SK, because she's the SK.

QUESTION ABOUT THE SETUP:
Is there a reason for the scum to obsess about the SK? Or should the town obsess with the SK for some reason?

[DrippingGoofball]

Come to think of it, it's strange that the mafia didn't kill the doctor.

vote: YvonneSeer

[DrippingGoofball]

DGB: What do you think about the argument against Gorgon?

The case against Gorgon underwhelms me.

Yvonne is more likely scum/SK (I can't decide which), and will be a more informative lynch, because of the very well defined relationships she has with some players.

@Cam - why do you think Gorgon is more vote-worthy than Yvonne?

[DrippingGoofball]

so I read that as a one-in-two chance, irrelevant of other factors, that Gorgon is the SK. Which is a pretty good D2 lynch.

Why aren't you voting? I would, if I were that convinced.

[DrippingGoofball]

so I read that as a one-in-two chance, irrelevant of other factors, that Gorgon is the SK. Which is a pretty good D2 lynch.

Why aren't you voting? I would, if I were that convinced.

So you're saying that you're less convinced? If so, what part of the argument do you not agree with or understand? If not, why aren't you voting?

We're not on the same wavelength here. Adele seems pretty convinced, I wonder why she is not voting. Giving how convinced she seems.

Has nothing to do with how *I* feel about the case against Gorgon.

Am I still confusing?

[DrippingGoofball]

DGB: Either you're

not

convinced by the Gorgon argument, and I'd like to know why (more than just "underwhelmed"), or you

are

convinced by the Gorgon argument, and you're open to the same questions that you're asking Adele.

Let me begin by stating that I am a bit concerned with a day that so far, has a single lynch candidate, and a single suspect, beyond the one I brought up (Yvonne Seer). Strategically speaking, it's a terrible idea to have days like that, because how are we going to be able to go back, and look at voting patterns, and root out the scum, if there's nothing but a single wagon? The wagon is also going a little too smoothly for my taste.

If I understand correctly (I often don't), part of the case against Gorgon is role-related. Well, I don't get this, because earlier on, I was chided for doing exactly that, which is evaluating players on the basis of their roles. I was told, no, no, no, the alignments are assigned independently of the roles. Maybe you can explain why *I* can't do this, but other players can, and get away with it, and even base actual votes on it. What I am not getting?

The part of the case about there not being an SK kill, and CKD having jailed Gorgon, I sorta get. However, no one is working very hard trying to find alternative explanations, and worse still, not every night choice has been revealed yet.

It's a strange wagon.

Go ahead and try to convince me.

[DrippingGoofball]

@ CKD - might I ask for your comments on my post 806 above? Since you are rather convinced that Gorgon is a good lynch for today, can you read my post, and perhaps try to explain what I am missing (if you can figure it out!).

Thanks ahead.

[DrippingGoofball]

my case against Gorgon has nothing to do with his role (why do I feel like I am saying that repeatedly in this game). Gorgon was on my top two scum list for yesterday (as was shafted). Today, I find there was no SK kill which only feeds my suspicion about gorgon being scum.

When you get to be my age, you'll find it takes longer for notions to sink in. Sorry if I am forcing you to repeat.

YOUR case against Gorgon may not be role related, but aren't there other people that are adding role-related arguments? Like his role is most useful to a SK, for example? Didn't someone somewhere bring that up against Gorgon?

who do you think is the sk, dgb?

I ain't got a clue. The fact that you jailed Gorgon is evidence. Maybe part of my reluctance is that I have yet to examine Gorgon independently. Maybe I should do that.

[DrippingGoofball]

and how old are you anyway?

It's in my profile... DOB...

[DrippingGoofball]

DGB, The reason people are not trying to find alternative explanations is that there ARE no alternative explanations. Well...One, but it's not very likely. Either Gorgon is syler, or he was sylers target last night. Thats it. The only other possible explanation with this setup is that the SK chose not to kill, and that just makes no sense to me.

I can't wrap my head around all that Syler business - maybe the fact I never watched the Heroes show has something to do with it, I dunno.

Mmmmm.

Well. Alright then. If there are no alternative explanations. I'll trust that you guys what you're talking about.

unvote, vote: Gorgon

[DrippingGoofball]

OK, I checked the OP. Sylar is some sort of superdooper SK. Got it.

[DrippingGoofball]

It actually has nothing to do with the character...It only has to do with the role. The only thing that can stop a SK kill in this setup is the jailing.

Ahhhhh...

Thats in the mechanics of this game. Therefore, since there was no SK kill last night leaves two possibilities, either Gorgon is the SK, and was prevented by being jailed last night, or he is not, and the SK tried to kill him last night. This gives him a 50-50% chance of being the SK.

Ahhhhh...

I totally get it now.

[DrippingGoofball]

I'd love to say more. I havent thought of anything more to say. How about this: The Gorgon lynch worries me just because that role is something Sylar might want. That being said, there was something about the way Yvonne swooped in that made me think maybe we'd caught scum anyway. A feeble contribution, I know. I will look for more.

Cicero, I'm going to have to wait for TSQ to come in and explain your post to me.

If Sylar would want the Gorgon role, why would lynching Gorgon worry you?
What was it about Yvonne that you refer to as "swooping in?"
What made you think that we've caught scum in Yvonne's swooping in?

[DrippingGoofball]

Aaaaahhhh... now I get it.

When you wrote:
"The Gorgon lynch worries me just because that role is something Sylar might want"

I thought you meant:
"The Gorgon lynch worries me just because that role is something Sylar might want"

My bad.

I should have understood:
"We lynched one guy to keep his role from Sylar. I don't plan to make it a habit. That would be dumb."

[DrippingGoofball]

Nah, just searching for my own personal Holy Grail, The Funniest Player LIFETIME ACHIEVEMENT Award.

[DrippingGoofball]

Mod: votecount, please? Thanks.

[DrippingGoofball]

LIST OF PLAYERS TOO CHICKEN TO HAMMER THE OBVIOUS:

Adele
shaft.ed
YvonneSeer
The Fonz

Cluck cluck cluck cluck

[DrippingGoofball]

Yvonne pushed for a Gorgon lynch, then sat back, lurked, and at the end of the day, didn't compromise herself on the Gorgon wagon.

[DrippingGoofball]

With pleasure.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 535#906535
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 620#906620
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 641#906641
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 704#906704
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 890#907890

You participated actively in the initial arguments for lynching Gorgon. Then you backed off, suggesting that CKD jail Gorgon every night, rather than we lynch Gorgon. Perhaps you knew Gorgon wasn't a scumbuddy of yours? That's what I'm thinking at the moment.

[DrippingGoofball]

@ CKD

Brilliant. Carry on.

[DrippingGoofball]

shafted I think before you next post, you need to take a moment and read the game...

read DGB's role
I explained why a locked up "a" watcher..not "the"

What? I'm a watcher? What's a watcher, then?

[DrippingGoofball]

No DGB - Adele is now a watcher because Yvonne targetted her. You are a dampener. Now: who did you dampen?

That's what I thought. Then I don't know what CKD is saying.

How come Adele is a watcher now, I don't get that from Yvonne's role.

Is there a reason why I should give my night target before Yvonne?

[DrippingGoofball]

And Shea since his role is to do nothing. Speaking of which.....

He's asking for replacement in all his games, see GD.

Mod: please replace TSQ

[DrippingGoofball]

I am curious why one of the first things she said today was "I thought I go last"...was that the plan that was stated yesterday? Yvonne always goes last? I saw where Adele had mentioned that Yvonne should go last yesterday but am I missing where anyone said she should go last everyday.

Absolutely. Yvonne and Adele are going down in flames. In my book, reluctance to claim when under pressure is a huge scumtell. Going last two days in row? I don't think so. I'm surprised cicero is going along with this, which is suspicious.

Furthermore, Yvonne's reluctance is so scummy that it almost doesn't matter who she targeted at this point.

vote: YvonneSeer

[DrippingGoofball]

Of course. My point was that if Yvonne is waiting for them to chime in we'll be here until doomsday.

I have chimed in with a vote. Claim, Yvonne.

[DrippingGoofball]

Her reluctance to claim is interesting.

Exactly. That's why she's next in line. I'm waiting.

*tap tap tap tap tap*

[DrippingGoofball]

In all situations. Including this one.

Reluctance to claim is a mega scumtell.

This last post cost you another 10 scumpoints, Yvonne.

[DrippingGoofball]

DGB..your turn.

I asked Seol what would happen if I targeted TSQ. You know. If I make him less vanilla, maybe he'd acquire a random power. The answer was "no" so, blah. But I decided to target TSQ anyway, in case someone could verify that I targeted him and he didn't die.

[DrippingGoofball]

DGB?

*smack*

[DrippingGoofball]

DGB?

*smack*

was this an answer? you are last.

I had already answered when you posted the question... Look back!

*smack again*

[DrippingGoofball]

Some of you are really good analytical players and should be realizing that I am not really the play today.

I don't fit in that category, but Yvonne is light years ahead of any other player right now in the scum race.

I can't imagine myself voting for CKD today.

[DrippingGoofball]

also Mod, given that it is 5 to lynch, and we only have 5 townies..how is that replacement for shea coming?

I'm devastated, TSQ is the only one that can explain things to me. He's irreplaceable.

@Yvonne - My case against you was laid out yesterday. Plus today, you added more ammo to it by repeatedly delaying claiming your target. Huge scumtell in my book.

[DrippingGoofball]

That's rubbish, Yvonne, because I expect the scum would be acutely concerned with getting rid of Sylar. But then you weren't certain that Gorgon was the SK, so that you didn't want to compromise yourself voting for him, because he might have been a townie.

[DrippingGoofball]

I just did some re-reading and have been keeping up. I'm pretty much convinced Yvonne is TOWN.

The cases against her are crap. And her defenses are kicking your asses and taking your names.

Her post was made at 3:46, yours at 3:49. One minute to find her post, one minute to read it, one minute to type, 10 seconds to check for typos and for the post request to the fetch the server, leaves you with basically less than ZERO seconds to THINK about what she wrote.

[DrippingGoofball]

I think it's even better with Adele because the whole group gets a clearly confirmed alibi.

I'm not sure I get this.

[DrippingGoofball]

Last night Shaft.ed would obviously have given Adele motivation powers because it is the most pro-town move. If Adele is scum, getting those powers is a handicap because she's forced to use them in an ostensibly pro-town way.

So what happens instead? CKD does the most anti-town thing available. He blocks Adel from both receiving a motivating power and from watching. If CKD is scum, that means his partner can do the kill.

The incentive for scum to jail her was there irrespective of her alignment.

Hmmmmm. I think I'm beginning to see the light, here.

[DrippingGoofball]

Not to keep harping on this but the Doc can't self protect. If The Fonz is the only protector left then scum kill him game over.

If that's the case, why are some players considering "no lynch?"

[DrippingGoofball]

We go into the next day 4-3. If we lynch wrong today then scum kills and we go into tomorrow 3-3 (barring a doc protect.)

And you're sure that nothing can go wrong?

Scum has no reason to no-kill?

[DrippingGoofball]

Theoretically, if she's town, there's no reason for scum not to take a shot at her, since no one can be watched killing her

Why on Earth would you point something like that out? Especially since with 2 watchers around, and having a pretty dumb role, I'm not bloody likely to be doc-protected.

[DrippingGoofball]

yet no one seems to be worried if I get NKed...(sigh)

It's OK, you won't be NK'd, not with Fonzie here helping the scum by nailing a target on the back of my head.

[DrippingGoofball]

^^^ My post.

[DrippingGoofball]

Does anyone think that MatchCam may have been killed to lessen the long case DGB made against Yvonne?

How would that work?

[DrippingGoofball]

DGB do these two posts seem conflicted to you?

No, because at some point, I realized that the chances of Gorgon being scum were so high that it left little room for alternate wagons. I did my best to try to generate interest in an Yvonne wagon, but Gorgon was too strong a competitor, haha.

[DrippingGoofball]

I'm compelled by what Yvonne says when she talks but she isn't scumhunting, no matter what she says. Big scumtell for me. She's also constantly avoiding the question about who she planned to catch in a lie by going last. Yes. this is vacillation. She felt town when she responded to CKD but her overall play is a survivor's game.

EXACTLY. I don't know whether it's you or another player, but because a Yvonne might be able to write one or two posts that "feel town" doesn't mean that she is town. She was way too reluctant to claim for my taste, and a few "townie feeling" posts don't cut it for me.

As for CKD - I totally buy into your argument, cicero. But other than his choice last night, he's acting and talking townie. Not just a few townie feeling posts in an overall scummy contribution, like Yvonne.

No lynch option - not keen on this. We're wasting an opportunity to catch scum, something that will help greatly the players that have night choices to choose optimal targets. I think we have good leads in Yvonne - CKD I'm less sure.

[DrippingGoofball]

DGB, who's scum?

I don't know! Why didn't Yvonne vote Gorgon, yesterday? She seemed to support the lynch early in the day. Just askin'.

[DrippingGoofball]

DGB usually pushes some flawed case relentlessly as town, usually on Adele, and she hasn't done that.

That's a pretty twisted, backhanded way to discredit my case against Yvonne.

Noted.

[DrippingGoofball]

I haven't played with DGB but I do agree her play has made a complete 180 since Gorgon came up SK. Why so quiet today DGB?

Oh please. If you think I'm quiet, please support this with EVIDENCE. Don't be lazy and take some other guy's word for it. This isn't my only game, I have other Alts, sometimes I'm more busy here, sometimes I'm more busy there. Like cicero points out regarding the Doctor Who game - there was nothing going on in that game that ever fired me up - so I was town, and quiet. More quiet than here, actually.

[DrippingGoofball]

Listen - I'm a lawyer - I don't do math. Here's all I know. There are 3 scum and 5 townies. Eight players. CKD has a 3 in 8 chance of being scum. Literally.

I don't do math either, I stick to finger painting and Play-Doh.

The question is, do we want to play bold and take that risk, or play chicken and be safe? When we could lynch Yvonne?

[DrippingGoofball]

DGB, your word count has gone way down as opposed to yesterday. But it does make sense that you would have less to analyze then when replacing directly into a game.

I didn't know word count fluctuations were tells. Are you counting other players words, too, shafted?

Please provide us with word count fluctuations statistics from all players including yourself, so that we can make comparisons.

Is your theory that I was saying more yesterday because I was replacing? Or is it that I was saying less yesterday because I was replacing? Or saying more today because I am more settled in? Or saying less today for the same reason?

Thank you for making it abundantly clear that you're saying nonsense.

[DrippingGoofball]

I think that was a perfectly cogent post

Then explain it and enlighten me.

[DrippingGoofball]

I actually get the Battle Mage vibe off DGB- ie, she seems a lot less sure of herself, less bullheaded, than the usual DGB-town.

I guess you tipped her off.

You too.

[DrippingGoofball]

For the record. Yvonne posted in another game in this subforum. But she didn't post here.

[DrippingGoofball]

I was wary of him being scum trying to get a townie (Gorgon) lynched yesterday.

How could you have thought the above ^^^
And posted the below:

Yes, in fact, Gorgon is most likely to be the SK at this point, and a rather dangerous SK if so.

Or, Gorgon is the SK and he got Jailed.

Well, maybe one way to go about this, is for ckd to continue jailing Gorgon and see if there are still no SK kills.

What about having ckd jail Gorgon every night from now on?

I am sure there is a perfectly good explanation, I would like to hear it.

Also, why did you not vote for Gorgon after all? Were you afraid to risk your vote on a non-scum lynch, while voicing suspicion that Gorgon was the SK?

[DrippingGoofball]

I anyone going to address the whole cicero defended yvonne issue btw?

Both of them are voting me.

[DrippingGoofball]

I anyone going to address the whole cicero defended yvonne issue btw?

Both of them are voting me.

The girl made some good points on you, DGB. How do you justify standing behind a case that had been proven demonstrably false following the deaths of Gorgon and Mathcam.

The death of mathcam erodes only the smaller part of the case I made yesterday. I reckon.

BUT - The way she sorta pushed Gorgon at the beginning of the day, then sorta tried to save his ass (jail him everyday), then sorta didn't show up for the lynch, then didn't vote for Gorgon at all - VERY SCUMMY. Makes me think she was Mafia, afraid that Gorgon might turn up town. None of that has been "demonstrated" to be false. Besides, that's my interpretation of what I saw. She might put a different spin on it. And I don't like that she had to be pushed to claim today. It's a scumtell in my book. It's quite rare for a townie to hesitate, unless they are doctors. But this is smalltown... so stalling the claim is *probably* an even bigger scumtell.

[DrippingGoofball]

Would it make sense for her to fabricate targeting The Fonz in her position with me, you and the Fonz left to claim?

I don't get that part. I need TSQ to explain it to me.

[DrippingGoofball]

shafter you are a lifesaver.

-Being a motivator I have to target either Yvonne, Adele, or The Fonz else I will be assuradely lynched.
-I was claiming after Yvonne thus Yvonne didn't know who I targeted but knew I didn't target her so I would have landed on Adele or The Fonz.
-Since she doesn't know that (unless Fonz or I am scum with her) she's taking a 50/50 gamble on being caught in a lie by claiming to target the Fonz.
-If she claims Adele she is perfectly safe.

OK. Is it possible that Yvonne didn't realize that she was perfectly safe claiming Adele?

Did she hesistate to claim because she might have needed more time to figure out the right claim?

Could she have gotten lucky? Fifty percent lucky.

[DrippingGoofball]

I knew there was something wrong with our reasons for why Fonzie shouldnt claim his protections.

Slow down! Can you impersonate TSQ and explain this to me?

[DrippingGoofball]

2) Second scenario involves TSQ's D1 play. I get the feeling reading back on it that TSQ knew he wouldn't be able to get a ZA lynch. But he was very successful in casting doubt onto ZA. Thus he could have been simply setting him up for the NK, as lack of trust means lack of Doc protect, watcher targeting. Obviously this play would exclude Yvonne and possibly The Fonz. I would also posit that it excludes DGB since the Tracker is of no use against her power, the watcher would have made more sense. So possible pairing are reductive as Cicero, CKD and Adele. Unless CES is bus'ing CKD, which is entirely possible, I'd put the Cicero Adele pairing as more likely. I think this scenario fits better with the Mathcam N2 kill.

If TSQ thought of that, he is a GENIUS. Seriously.

[DrippingGoofball]

Discuss.

Agreed.

[DrippingGoofball]

Let me get this straight, CKD. Adele and CES would vote for be because I'm "unreadable???"

What I am missing here?

[DrippingGoofball]

Let me get this straight, CKD. Adele and CES would vote for be because I'm "unreadable???"

What I am missing here?

where did I say I would vote you?

You didn't say you would vote me. But is it my imagination? What other reasons have Adele and CES brought forward, beyond un-readability? Interesting.

[DrippingGoofball]

Maybe it was this sentence:

My scumdar doesn't work on DGb, but I wouldn't exclude lynching here today either.

Is there more to it that I missed?

[DrippingGoofball]

DGB, I'm sure you agree you shouldn't have a free pass just because you're a bad player, right?

Plain old, transparent, Goofball bait.

I'm not biting.

shafted: if your calculations are correct, from my perspective, I'd say CES and the Fonz have a 50-50 chance! TSQ's behaviour early in the game was pretty distracting, and the Fonz has remained rational and calm, but I'm not liking his vote on CKD.

[DrippingGoofball]

DGB, I dont think I have ever played with someone like DGB before.

Enjoy. It's a life-altering opportunity.

I am not sure why she said she targetted CES

My role is not a helpful role, it would only get in the way. But I figured, if anybody tracks me or whatever, they can at least confirm that I am not killing people in their sleep. So I thought it would be funny to target TSQ/CES, because being vanilla, I would make them less vanilla, so maybe they'd acquire a role. But it was a joke, just a place to park my night choice, just in case it could be proven.

If you find a usefulness for my dumb role, let me know. I couldn't. I'm open to suggestions.

[DrippingGoofball]

can anyone track you?

No, but there might be a loophole I missed, so I didn't take a chance.

[DrippingGoofball]

My bad. Mixed stuff up. DGB can hide the kill from the watchers by targetting the victim. Neither DGB nor the victim could be watched. Targetting the killer wouldnt stop the watchers from catching the killer if they were watching the victim.

I don't get this...

[DrippingGoofball]

DGB please dont do this anymore. It also blocks Doc protects, in addition to watchings.

OK... I won't pick anyone tonight then. But last night, you have to reckon, TSQ was a mighty low risk.

[DrippingGoofball]

Cicero, do your calculations include the possibility that some of the information roles might be scum? If you do include this, would that change your conclusion?

[DrippingGoofball]

I think it leaves us open to scum manipulation. What if more than one useful role is held by scum? Then, they will be able to coordinate their story. And with so few useful roles remaining, the night choices are expected to be incestuous.

I see the point of "no lynch" but I don't really see how we can measure whether it more or less risky than trying to kill a scumbag today.

I never thought I'd ever say that in a mafia game, but

anyone's guess is as good as mine.

[DrippingGoofball]

How coordinated do you think their story will get? How likely is it that Adele and Yvonne are scum together do you

It depends which power roles maybe scum. Fonz? Adele? Yvonne? CKD? Any combination might spell trouble. If they are able to coordinate something, we'll lose, no?

Do you think CES was scummy for suggesting the move in the first place? We can all agree he's pretty damn smart, yes?

I don't believe I said that - only that we should careful weigh all possibility, and when I say "all" I mean players smarter than myself.

[DrippingGoofball]

Assuming the scum kill overnight, we drop a pro-town suspect, reducing the field - which is good - but we also lose that pro-town player's thoughts and ideas and suspicions, and their vote. Which is bad.

That makes me hugely expendable. I assume that was in the back of your mind.

[DrippingGoofball]

If we could agree on who is scummier, or who is more likely to be caught in a lie, we'd have a greater chance of success by making up an order. I'm not sure we can agree though, so dice would be an acceptable second best.

[DrippingGoofball]

CKD is the only player I'd trust. No offense, cic.

But yeah. Popcorn should work.

[DrippingGoofball]

Adele - [...]

More importantly,

I don't really want to be the mafia's alibi when they accuse me of shooting you dead.

If you thought that Adele is mafia, then you would know that she wouldn't be nightkilled by her buddies, right?

The underlying assumption behind that sentence is that you KNOW that Adele is town, and that if she is nightkilled, which you might be thinking about doing, you don't want it to look bad on YOU.

Is there any other interpretation, other that you KNOW Adele is town, for you to write the above sentence the way you did?

[DrippingGoofball]

What? What am I missing?

[DrippingGoofball]

You just crashed my cerebral hard disk. True, it was a TRS-80, but it was a step up from punch cards.

[DrippingGoofball]

You just crashed my cerebral hard disk. True, it was a TRS-80, but it was a step up from punch cards.

That was meant for that pesky cicero pantalooned fellow.

[DrippingGoofball]

CES, I'm really tired of the Santa hat.

[DrippingGoofball]

Hammah!!!

unvote, vote: No lynch

[DrippingGoofball]

is it really a hammer when it's for No Lynch?

Thank you for ruining MY moment.

[DrippingGoofball]

*crickets*

[DrippingGoofball]

I did nothing last night.

Discuss.

[DrippingGoofball]

I targeted Yvonne.

I assume I'm supposed to claim results now - Shaft.ed and CKD both targeted her.

Are you SURE????? Check the PM from the mod.

Are you even paying attention to the game???

[DrippingGoofball]

DrippingGoofball, what are you on about?

Simulpost. I thought that Adele hadn't noticed the discrepancy between her claim and CKD's, so I wanted to make sure that it wasn't a clerical error.

Either ckd killed Yvonne or Adele is lying to try and get ckd lynched.

Yes, that's what we have to decide today, isn't it.

[DrippingGoofball]

Why did CKD target CES? Is there a reason for that?

[DrippingGoofball]

At any rate, I also thought DGB and CES would be good targets last night because I didn’t throw much suspicion there way yesterday and again I tried to out guess the scum and who would send the kill. I figured that CES didn’t have a night choice so if he was scum, they might have him send it. I also figured that DGB and CES would be kills last night because due to conversation yesterday no one was going to jail or protect them (most likely)

Since you narrowed your choice down to CES and me, why did you pick CES?

[DrippingGoofball]

Targetting CES is unverifiable, so leaves you free to kill. If you are the scum killer, not only does it make sense for you to claim to have targetted CES or DGB, but it requires you to so claim. Targetting watcher, doc or motivator would likely have seen you strung up.

That's a very good point.

And criticizing cicero for targeting Adele makes no sense whatsoever. Even I can see that. If CKD is scum, he pretty much can not target anyone else.

If CKD is scum, who could his buddies be, that CKD was the favored player to send in the kill?

[DrippingGoofball]

If CKD is scum, who could his buddies be, that CKD was the favored player to send in the kill?

No time to pos right now, but this s what really troubles me. I think if we figure this out, we lynch correctly.

Let's see.

Cicero might be a buddy. If cicero is scum, he'd have to prove himself with townies everynight, and try to manipulate the townies at night, too. So he'd wouldn't be a good choice to send in the kill. So CKD would be free to send in the kill, and pretend to have jailed a player without powers.

Adele might be another. I am not sure what would happen if she were scum and sent the kill, though. I'm guessing that she'd be a very poor choice to send in the nightkill, because (if I understand her role, she couldn't absorb a power if killing, or couldn't use a power?)

shafted maybe yes - shafted might be needed to motivate a fellow scumbag. So CKD could kill Yvonne, shafted motivates cicero/Adele, or whatever third scum), and cicero talks all night.

CES - low probability. The only concern would be that he might be watched, but then they're killing Yvonne anyway. Though if Fonz is a buddy, and I don't think he is, so they might worry about Yvonne being doc-protected.

Me - low probability. They killed Yvonne, and I can't be watched anyway. So like CES, they don't have to worry about me unless Fonz is scum with them, because Yvonne might have been doc-protected (unlikely since Fonz was suspicious, but hey). I have a power that I cannot use, really, because no good can come of it. If I was his buddy, it wouldn't matter who kills.

The Fonz - no. If scum, he doesn't need to actually protect anybody, except if he's watched. In killing Yvonne, he doesn't have to do anything. So if Fonz was CKD's buddy, it wouldn't make sense for CKD to do the kill. They would both know who they're killing.

So if CKD is scum, I'd guess buddies with two of cicero, Adele and shafted. This suggest that Adele and CKD might be bus'ing each other. Since we haven't caught scum yet, it's a pretty safe midgame strategy.

But anyway. The real conclusion is that there are scum player combinations that exist where CKD sending the nightkill would be a good choice.

It doesn't help decide who is lying between Adele and CKD.

[DrippingGoofball]

and who could be Adele's scum buddies?

You bet that's next, haha. Keeping the best for last, no effense!

[DrippingGoofball]

Or at least Shaft.ed told me the same thing in the 24 hours before the game opened, based on "trusting me the most".

Not to burst your bubble or anything, but in the off chance I'd be speaking to a scumbag that's deciding who is going to be nightkilled on another telephone, I'd be kissin', too.

[DrippingGoofball]

The ONLY way I can see CKD being the kill perfomer is if partnered with me and Fonz.

I totally disagree, see my previous post.

[DrippingGoofball]

And on the other hand we had two nights where CKD made the wrong choice. Last night his only play was Dripping Goofball, because Dripping Goofball is a perfect killing machine who needs to be put in jail. But there was always the chance that DGB might have tried to use her power. If jailed she would have gotten a message that says her powers failed. If she didnt get that message we'd know CKD was in the wrong spot. Instead, CKD, again, under the principle of "I'm so sneaky" and "dont tell me what to do motherfuckers" failed to give himself an alibi and also left out the one player who could operate with impunity. So, the real reason might just be that the guy's scum.

Exactly.

If CKD would have jailed me, the kill would have gone through, and I would have been confirmed as town, because if I'm on a scumteam, I'm a natural to do the kills. CKD should have been jailing me every night after we caught Sylar.

We could have come pretty close to having a confirmed townie with me, and a trusted townie in CKD, had he made the right night choices.

[DrippingGoofball]

Wouldn't make more sense for me-as-scum to try to lay low?

My decision to vote for Adele or CKD won't be based on this kind of WIFOM.

[DrippingGoofball]

DGB can't be watched. That's not the point exactly. If DGB dampens someone, that person can't be watched. But if she

kills

someone, and that person was watched, the watcher would see DGB because she wasn't suppressing powers, she was killing.

No wonder I don't understand my own role.

[DrippingGoofball]

I can hold it no longer. I've been waiting and waiting, waiting and waiting. The longer I wait, the scummier it looks. I was going to see how long it would take, but now I'm bursting at the seams.

How come you're not voting Adele, CKD???

[DrippingGoofball]

Where?

[DrippingGoofball]

No wonder, I was searching for a "vote:" string but you did not use the colons.

That's why I missed it.

[DrippingGoofball]

so your thoughts now you know I voted Adele?

My heart is with you, you sound so sincerely townie... but the facts are with Adele, gah!

Eenie, meenie, minie, mo...

I better read the thread again.

[DrippingGoofball]

If Adele is pulling this gambit as scum, I've been overestimating her. It's a history-making dumb move, with the scum so far ahead.

In fact, I would like Adele to pledge to use this avatar for a period of one month, even if it's gone out of style, should she happen to be scum in this game.



If CKD is scum, I pledge to nightkill, dayvig, vig, serial kill, him in every game we'll play together; if Adele is town, I'll mop her kitchen floor in a clown suit.

[DrippingGoofball]

cicero, I've already made up my mind as regards today.

Are you going to share with the rest of the class?

[DrippingGoofball]

DGB, you never answered the question, what facts support adele?

These facts. But then again, I do consider the source.

[DrippingGoofball]

Emergency vote!

votre: cicero

[DrippingGoofball]

What I do believe is that someone HASTILY placing a second vote on a player when 4 are needed to lynch, and we have 3 scum at large, has to be impatient scum.

If Adele is the town player, the two scumbags pile up their votes and we lose.

[DrippingGoofball]

unvote

Don't do anything crazy like that again. I won't unvote you a second time.

[DrippingGoofball]

A question. Do you believe that a) cicero's actions towards CKD yesterday or b) Adele's claiming a guilty on him today look like bussing?

I certainly would not discount the possibility.

The both of them are being out-of-charateristically cool about it. Adele isn't jumping out of her chair, she's all relaxed, CKD isn't pulling his hair out in fits of anxiety, he's just cruisin' the thread.

I know I'd be making posts with large fonts and multiple colors and numbered lists if I were in their situation.

[DrippingGoofball]

They can pile three votes on me now and we lose as well.

I know. That's why I did unvote you. We have to play safe. No foolish gambits.

[DrippingGoofball]

what if he votes me, you would vote him again?

what if he voted for me the first time?

DGB, why wouldnt you unvote, do you think cicero is scum?

Yes. We haven't decided, collectively, which one of Adele or you is the scum. It shouldn't be an individual's decision.

Yes. I totally don't know which one to believe.

I don't know whether cicero is scum. Maybe he is. But that's not the decision we're taking today.

[DrippingGoofball]

My head says CKD. The rest of me says Adele. The fact that Fonz is going against CKD makes me even more likely to trust CKD and distrust Adele.

You missed one detail.

How does CES's opinion modulate yours?

[DrippingGoofball]

I don't understand the question.

CES leans towards CKD.

Does that make YOU lean towards CKD or Adele?

[DrippingGoofball]

And CKD I like your analysis style.

Strange comment since CKD sees you as scum around every corner.

I was just out for a movie.

[DrippingGoofball]

I like milk..

DGB you thoughts on my break downs?

From my perspective I only believe the ones that don't involve me being scum. All of them assume that you're town, though. So it's only half the equation.

[DrippingGoofball]

I'd like for Adele to give us her scumpair breakdowns.

[DrippingGoofball]

CKD, you realise that if you are scum in this game, I am going to follow you around this site forever quoting your moral invective, bets, talk about endgame, and other wild tricks, right? You will NEVER be trusted in a game with me in it EVER EVER again.

My meta on CKD is that he's an expert at the pulling of heartstrings and ought to never be trusted. Sorry, ongoing games, I invoke the fifth amendment.

[DrippingGoofball]

Where we're at:

CES : CKD
cicero: CKD
Fonz: leaning CKD
shafted: undecided
DGB: uncreasingly leaning CKD, especially after shafted's analysis.

When the rest of you feel it's time to vote, I'm ready, too.

[DrippingGoofball]

That's too many CKD's.

Those are current voting intentions.

[DrippingGoofball]

I understand, but unless his scumbuddies are bus'ing him, which is quite reasonable given that he was fingered in the NK, then there are too many people willing to lynch him.

Exactly. What this tells me is that Adele is probably town, and his buddies have no choice but to bus him.

[DrippingGoofball]

DGB, why the change of heart? Just yesterday you wanted Adele you do some breakdowns..today you are not interested? Why are you rushing it?..if you are ready to vote me..vote me, why do you need to confirmation for everyone else?

shafted did it, which is even better than Adele doing it in some ways.

Confirmation IS needed, because as I explained earlier, today's lynch should be a cooperative decision. We can't have one player voting either you or Adele, and have the scum pile on. We need to make sure that more than one townie believes you are scum, and I think we have achieved this.

[DrippingGoofball]

This was shafted's conclusion:

Conclusion, I think this analysis detracts from the idea that Adele is scum.

And yes, I reckon that shafted is the player I trust the most now, and pretty much all game in fact. He doesn't strike me as having an agenda.

[DrippingGoofball]

I have to agree with CES. Must think a few minutes here.

[DrippingGoofball]

Also, once the game is over and if one fucking person says the town loss is my fault I will go ape shit..(cicero sort of implied that pages ago)...just telling you up front.

I have to admit this sounds like a cornered scum hissy fit.

[DrippingGoofball]

You're at lynch minus 2, right? This is a fun experiment in timing.

[DrippingGoofball]

DGB looks for all the world like she's waiting for the signal to co-ordinate a quicklynch.

vote: Adele

I'm calling Adele, DGB and shaft.ed.

Not biting. Not my kind of worm on that hook.

[DrippingGoofball]

CKD I've already told you. I'm not voting today. I'm not thinking straight due to lack of sleep, I do not want to make a boneheaded decision in this state. But I did want to hang around in case DGB voted so I could demonstrate my ability to not hammer.

You want me to put him at lynch minus 1 to clear yourself??? Have you lost your mind? You should go to sleep.

[DrippingGoofball]

DGB what hook are you waiting for? You have put me at -1 before..what is the issue now?

I NEVER put you at minus 1. That was cicero and CES. Maybe the Nibblers are confusing... wasn't me.

[DrippingGoofball]

DGB Fonz won't hammer he already had his chance


The only worry is cicero coming in and hammering, or you not trusting me as town both of which are dangerous.

Why would he hammer???

CKD is at minus 2. Not minus 1.

[DrippingGoofball]

I don't know DGB 1741 and 1742 looked like an itchy trigger finger.

I'm watching the others.

[DrippingGoofball]

DGB what hook are you waiting for? You have put me at -1 before..what is the issue now?

I NEVER put you at minus 1. That was cicero and CES. Maybe the Nibblers are confusing... wasn't me.

you are right (maybe it was too many nibblers), but you DID say you were ready to lynch me..you were just waiting for the rest of the town...

Yes, but I want to see how the others will react... that's very telling. More important than all the blah blah in fact.

[DrippingGoofball]

I don't know if I'd go both ways with that Fonz, you were here to move your vote if things got ugly. But it would suggest that DGB and I are either both town, or one of us is town and the other is scum.

I'm not sure if I follow.

[DrippingGoofball]

Simple. If either of you were scum (without CKD) and your buddy were present, then you'd quicklynch. Ergo, you're not both scum with Adele.

Does that mean CKD is scum, yes or no?

[DrippingGoofball]

Let's try.

vote: Adele

[DrippingGoofball]

unvote, vote: curiouskarmadog

[DrippingGoofball]

Oh krap simulpost!

[DrippingGoofball]

and we are done.

good game scum

Can I bring you something? Coffee? Tea? Cake? Cookies? Pie?

[DrippingGoofball]

so seriously shafted..you werent scum?

You did an AMAZING job. You were the star here. And shafted - you had us figured out daaaaays ago!

[DrippingGoofball]

I'm so sorry CKD, I sooooooooooooo felt your pain and frustration. It's that "outscummed" feeling...

[DrippingGoofball]

I failed!

[DrippingGoofball]

I was wasting time, as we'd agreed I'd be the hammer.