Mini #534 - Vegetable Mafia (Game Over!)

[Bookitty]

I read the game and have a few comments.

I am somewhat suspicious of Phate's weird roleclaim gambit, but I think it's less likely to make him scum. My guess is that the scum don't have a safe claim of the sort being mentioned, because all claiming the same vegetable would be a tell in itself.

I'm voting ryan, based on his actions and on this quote:

He's trying to get me to slip up and say something scummy, yet I've clarified myself as much as I can to him. If he doesn't understand, not much more I can do.

Why would answering questions create a situation where a townie would "slip up and say something scummy"? If it's not clear, then clarify it. If you don't, because you are worried you might "slip up and say something scummy", chances are you're scum.

vote: ryan

[Bookitty]

I replaced Kravhen, Oman, so that FOS should be on me I think.

I'm willing for the popcorn name claim. I also think we should let it go to the end before we lynch anyone.

[Bookitty]

Bookitty: Pea

vote Oman

I see no reason why we are all singular vegetables (Pea, not peas) and he is plural. This seems pretty telling to me.

[Bookitty]

I am limited in my posts per page and amount I can say per post. I asked the acting mod and I'm allowed to mention that. Apparently being a pea means my opinion isn't all that important. But I noticed that I made a mistake in my previous post in formatting, so I'm fixing it in this one.

vote: Oman

[Bookitty]

I am limited in my posts per page and amount I can say per post. I asked the acting mod and I'm allowed to mention that. Apparently being a pea means my opinion isn't all that important. But I noticed that I made a mistake in my previous post in formatting, so I'm fixing it in this one.

vote: Oman

[Bookitty]

My role name is just Pea. Not Green Pea. Not a pea. Just Pea.

(Yes, I'm incredibly proud of it too -sigh-)

I am unconvinced regarding Oman's misreading claim, considering 1) he requested the popcorn nameclaim and then didn't carefully read his name? Seems a little odd, and 2) a reread of his posts in isolation, which I recommend.

[Bookitty]

Reasons against Oman:

Post 73: Bandwagon on ryan "UNTIL NORTHJAYHAWK GETS BACK" Time limit on bandwagon.

Post 98: Unvotes two days later, claiming bandwagon just for information.

Post 416: "Ryan caught me, which wouldn't be hard, cause our role pms say we're both scum together." Deliberate presenting of WIFOM.

Never votes ryan again. Leaves out part of my reasoning for voting ryan (this may not be deliberate though) in his Post 484.

ryan pushed Oman's lynch but says himself in Post 463 "Neither Oman nor destructor were close to an "easy lynch" at the time of said discussion"

Looks like distancing. Don't like the WIFOM comment. Neither one was serious about bandwagoning the other, but a lot of interaction. Looks very suspicious to me.

[Bookitty]

I still think the "green beans" thing is pretty suspicious.

I'd rather the Mason not reveal themselves until later in the game or unless they are forced to claim.

I don't like Destructor half-claiming cop, but I really don't like thedragonsprincess asking for a counterclaim when Destructor hadn't actually claimed cop. Looks like rolefishing (more blatant than fishing, actually) to me.

[Bookitty]

I do have a post restriction, of two posts per page, and 150 words per post. That said, I was very convinced that Oman was scum, and I'm not sure who is, since I was wrong. I think I expressed my suspicions of thedragonsprincess before, due to her comments which seemed to be seeking a counterclaim to destructor's half-claim. I guess there could be a destructor/thedragonsprincess scumteam. My only other suspect is Phate, due to his weird claim for no apparent reason, and scumminess surrounding the ryan lynch, but I don’t see him as a possible scumpartner for thedragonsprincess, so that makes that theory less likely.

Sorry for not posting more, but I really was lost when Oman turned out to be town. I was hoping for something more definite before using my posts up.

vote:thedragonsprincess

[Bookitty]

Yes, there's a three strikes rule, and I guess he used one of them. I didn't know that he had.

My only defence is that I'm a pea and apparently my opinion isn't very important since I'm so small. I'm also investigation proof so I can't even clear myself that way.

And yes, it's a sucky post restriction. But it's mine and I have to play with it. That said, I think my case on Oman was reasonable, even though it turned out to be wrong.

Soupfly, I think maybe the scum thought you'd be protected and looked elsewhere. I would have protected you and I think most people would have, given that you were the only confirmed town.

[Bookitty]

I agree that I should use my second strike rather than spam up the thread. I have one more (not sure if exceeding BOTH the word count and posting counts as one or two strikes). Because I'm so small, I'm immune to all night actions except for the nightkill. I read that to mean I can't be protected, investigated, whatever. That said, I have no night actions myself, so regardless of the weird flavour of my role, I'm essentially a vanilla townie.

I think we should look more closely at Phate and Crub. Also, to prevent the LYLO situation, if town decides I should be lynched, I think it would be better for me to deliberately exceed my word count/post count so that I will be modkilled, so we only lose one townie and don't go to night. That verifies my claim without the risk of the nightkills. Agreed?

[Bookitty]

I gave my reasoning for thinking there was a thedragonsprincess/destructor scumteam here.

I said closer attention should be paid to Phate and Crub because Phate is flying under the radar and his angry comments back and forth with ryan seemed a little overblown and could be distancing. Crub, because he's being very easy-going and accommodating, which does not fit my meta of him as town.

In my own defense I would ask you to look at this post, which led to ryan voting himself and being outed as the godfather. I think scum would have stayed silent then, or claimed a reread was needed, rather than add a vote to an investigation-proof scum.

If you have questions, please ask. I will try to answer them all at once.

[Bookitty]

Okay. I'm just going to answer this now.

It's possible that Phate and destructor are linked. I just didn't see any evidence for that. I thought destructor half-claiming cop and then thedragonsprincess half-asking for a counterclaim looked like a rolefishing scumgambit.

Case against Destructor: here


Link between Destructor and thedragonsprincess:
here
and
here

Case against Phate:
here

Point in favour of Phate: here


I think the connection between tdp and Destructor is much better.

[Bookitty]

I don't think Destructor or Crub are scum based on their recent comments. I am still pretty sure about my vote on tdp, but I can pretty readily see a phate/gorckat scumteam as well based on how carefully they post about each other. Also see here

Phate is not confirmed town. The only person we have who is confirmed is Soupfly. Since every single person had a different veggie, we have no gain from the popcorn claim. Phate is not a new player, to my knowledge, so his ignorance of what a safe claim was seems a little... unbelievable.

Also, this looks like a reason that Oman might have been killed. The post is referring to thedragonsprincess and Phate.

Suspicions on tdp, Phate and Gorckat right now.

unvote; vote: Phate

[Bookitty]

@Crub: I think Gorckat is saying he doesn't believe my post restriction, because he thinks it only fits an SK. I think it's pretty clear there's not an SK in this game. That said, I'd like Gorckat to explain how it's helpful for scum to fake such a post restriction.

Soupfly is confirmed town. So I wondered why Destructor was the nightkill, rather than Soupfly, probably the optimal kill for scum. I think the answer is here.

I think Gorckat and Crub are likely the final two scum. I'd vote for either today.

[Bookitty]

@Gorckat: I certainly have not been allowed to slide on it, since it's the primary and apparently only reason that you've attacked me. Do you think a PR is inherently scummy?

@Crub: I am most certain about Gorckat. The post I linked to in 759 and your defense of me makes me nervous about you. The fact you're active makes me less so.

I'd like more input from Phate; I didn't like his interactions with ryan as previously stated. In LYLO he's posting less than I am with NO post restriction, but Gorckat is strangely silent on that matter. That's suspicious. Because of his silence he's moved up to second, but it's pretty much tied at this point. Need more information.

Would like some thoughts from Soupfly and Phate. Ready to explain or answer any questions as soon as I can. Last post for this page, unfortunately.

[Bookitty]

Gorckat: Crub already pointed this out, but I'm NOT nightkill immune, read here. I NEVER claimed that I was.

Additionally, yesterday you were insistent that I was scum and couldn't be an SK because of the nightkills; now you have reversed all these arguments but kept your suspicions exactly the same. You don't get to twist your reasoning in such a tortured manner in order to lynch someone. The only reasons you've given for your suspicion are my PR and my roleclaim. If you have others, you should say what they are. If you don’t, it’s assumed you have none.

Even if your accusation was true, which it's NOT, and therefore we did have only one scum left, why aren't you saying who you think is the remaining scum? Are you even hunting scum at all? In your “unlucky SK” scenario, is Crub or Phate the remaining scum, Gorckat?

[Bookitty]

Gorckat scumlinked me with two townies yesterday. Today, his only case against me is my PR and my investigation-immune status. He refuses to answer my question (still valid even now he's claiming his whole SK-accusation was a gambit) about the other scum. Keeping his options open. Claiming miller is odd at this point.

Soupfly is confirmed town. So that leaves Phate, Crub and Gorckat. If Gorckat were town, with his vote on me, then a Phate-Crub scumteam has had ample time by now to jump on that and quicklynch me. Thus Phate and Crub can't be a team; Gorckat must be scum. Soupfly said earlier he would vote Gorckat, so did Crub. Phate and Gorckat have a showy argument about inattention and then Phate votes Gorckat (which seems the smart thing to do, given that the rest have indicated our intentions to vote Gorckat).

Will vote Gorckat next page.

[Bookitty]

I have one vote on me (Gorckat). Phate and Crub both posted; neither voted me. Both could have, thus they are not scum together.

Gorckat got one vote from Phate. If Phate were town voting for townGorckat, then when Crub voted Gorckat, if I were scum I could have voted Gorckat and won the game for scum. Thus Crub and I cannot be scum together.

Phate voted Gorckat, putting Gorckat at two votes. If I were scum with Phate, he could have left his vote there knowing I'd hammer. He did not, thus I cannot be scum with Phate.

I cannot be scum with Phate or with Crub. I could only be scum with Gorckat, by logical deduction. I’m not scum, and Phate and Crub can’t be scum together.

vote: Gorckat

(expecting Gorckat to bring up the PR he claims not to believe to try to disprove this)

[Bookitty]

I did a thorough reread. If Crub is scum he's done an excellent job of disguising that. There's a lot of interaction (distancing, as I read it) between Phate and ryan, and Gorckat was pretty insistent that Phate's safeclaim cleared him despite dismissing the newbie claim.

That's circumstantial. This is not: Oman, now known to be the cop, was suspicious of Phate and tdp early on. I think at the point he posted here he had a guilty on Phate and an innocent on tdp, but was possibly unsure of his sanity and definitely unwilling to out himself. We know that tdp was town, so if we take the cop's word for it, Phate must be scum.

I don't see any evidence that is likely to change my mind. I very much hope I'm right.

vote: Phate