Mini 543 - Election Day - Game Over!

[farside22]

/confirm
I didn't play last game, but this sounds really cool.

[farside22]

I'm good anytime except Christmas.

[farside22]

Voting for yourself for immunity should never be considered.

immunity: hasdgfas

[farside22]

well, once we decide who to give immunity to, we can open polls as soon as he/she has the most votes for immunity. It's just like normal mafia, except in reverse. You want votes during the day.

This will depend on two factors actually. One is how long we take to decide on the person who get immunity and two is if we have enough information from the immunity discussions to vote for who should be booted. The town needs to agree on who is the scummiest still because the scum have the more of an advantage in this game.

[farside22]

So, you guys are like starting with voting for immunity, rather than who to lynch? I have to consider whether I believe this is the appropriate avenue to take here or not. While it is important to decide carefully who gets immunity, we also must consider who we're going to lynch and how we're to decide that before the polls open.

How do we discuss who we think is scum without a discussion on who to immue? Isn't this the same idea as voting for scum in mafia except you are giving someone immunity instead. You can base peoples vote on those who are voting for certain people and feel out what their case is just like regular mafia.
Or are you saying we should say person X is scum and start off a discussion with scum vote instead of immuinity vote. Or do we do both. Say vote one scum and one immunity and discuss.

[farside22]

I agree with being transparent in who we are voting for. If we hide who we are voting for, that might inhibit the overall hunt for scum. I we do not inhibit ourselves, I think who we will vote for will be fairly obvious anyways.

I also think that we should not be randomly throwing votes for immunity. In a regular game of mafia random votes can put pressure on people when accused which can lead to informative reactions. Random votes for immunity do not put similar pressure so I don't think the two concepts should be equated.

I think if we concentrate on who is the most suspicious, the least suspicious will become apparent and that is who should be awarded immunity.

Okay I can agree with that. I say maybe a serious of FOS or voting on those we find suspicious. I don't know this is kind of weird way to start things. I will do FOS for now.

unimmunity

FOS: Akonas

self immunity looks scummie.

[farside22]

FOS: Akonas

self immunity looks scummie.

That's bull. Everyone would want themselves to be immune - if they are scum, they're safe and can mislead the town; if they're town, they can be sure that scum wasn't given immunity. 'Nuff said.

Vote: Qman

. He's lurking; he's obviously scum (and not just gone for the holidays).

Frankly, I'm terribly confused at the moment. I'm seeing it as playing backwards, i.e. awarding immunity. It's...weird.

Correct. That's why it hasn't gone anywhere. All in good time, my friend. But for now... well, we need to start somewhere. Mostly, everyone needs to say more. Come up with a strategy. Make unfounded accusations. Say anything that's on your mind. This is supposed to be an open, transparent system. That way, we get ideas flowing, get thinking, and can root out scum better.

Also,

OMGUSFOSWTFBBQ:farside22

.

You know you are saying we need to start somewhere and you are FOS me for trying to start somewhere. I'm surprised no one see's the hypocrosy in this statement and my effort.

@Holy:

How would it be pro-town to vote for yourself for immunity?

@ibaesha:

What is it that mcpaltp stated that makes you believe him to be more pro-town?

[farside22]

@Holy:

How would it be pro-town to vote for yourself for immunity?

A townie knew that him/herself is innocents but didn't have insight of his/her other innocents ally, we didn't know who to trust but ourselves of course. I didn't say it was a pro-town move, but he might be just didn't trust anybody at all for now (yes, I doubt scum would do that as the first, but after this whole discussion maybe they might do that someday), that's it.

This is true, but scum can do the same thing stating it as pro town. He was the only one to try it before Rishi said anything. I found it something to point out. His comments back to me seem a bit extreme consider even he stated we need to start somewhere then FOS's me for doing so.

[farside22]

@Holy:

How would it be pro-town to vote for yourself for immunity?

A townie knew that him/herself is innocents but didn't have insight of his/her other innocents ally, we didn't know who to trust but ourselves of course. I didn't say it was a pro-town move, but he might be just didn't trust anybody at all for now (yes, I doubt scum would do that as the first, but after this whole discussion maybe they might do that someday), that's it.

Why would you vote against me if you were not sure yourself if it pro-town move? Your comments and vote are contridictory.

[farside22]

Farside was yelling at me, even though it makes perfect sense for a townie to be voting for selfimmunity Day 1. So I don't see what y'all are complaining about..

Yelling I think you are being extreme. I FOS'ed you. The called you hypocritical. How is this yelling?

Right now, I'm seeing hasdgfas and farside22 as a possible scum pair. And you all may be seeing Holy and I that way (funny how people always take sides). But we seem to be arguing something that MAKES SENSE - that's the difference

I didnt think you two as partners. I was more curious about Holy's comments then anything. You really have a way of taking things out of proportion.

[farside22]

@Holy:

It is way too early to be asking that question. I think only 5 of us has really been talking so far. Nothing much to go on.
So far the only thing I've learned is Akonas likes to exaggerate things.

[farside22]

Mod: Please prod mcpaltp.

Thank you!

@Akonas: I would like an answer to opie's question too.

[farside22]

The partners thing... that was because it seemed that Holy and I were largely arguing at hasdgfas and farside22, while everyone else sat around like relatively civil people. I didn't mean anything by it, except to point out the state of things.

Okay, I'm not sure if I follow you Akonas. Do you have any reason to suspect farside22 and hasdgfas as a scum pair other than the fact that they are have both been suspicious of you? And if you are sure that both are scum, then why did you single out hasdgfas over farside22 for your vote?

Well, I'm not sure they're scum. I've been blowing things somewhat out of proportion to get responses. However, I've been doingthat all game, joking somewhat but still saying something.

So, let's take a look at what they did (this is mostly just pointing out little things that bothered me):

Voting for yourself for immunity should never be considered.

immunity: hasdgfas

Immediate early link.

vote: akonas

reasons: OMGUS is bad; farside has had excellent insight so far IMO, and the whole self-immunity thing.

immunity: farside

I've liked what he's said so far.

Again, linking. And I don't see that farside's said that much that's been particularly insightful. But there's a definite link - they're helping each other out, clearly.

well, once we decide who to give immunity to, we can open polls as soon as he/she has the most votes for immunity. It's just like normal mafia, except in reverse. You want votes during the day.

This will depend on two factors actually. One is how long we take to decide on the person who get immunity and two is if we have enough information from the immunity discussions to vote for who should be booted. The town needs to agree on who is the scummiest still because the scum have the more of an advantage in this game.

Both of them are assuming ahere that we're going to start with immunity discussions... and

not start deciding who to lynch until afterwards?

Yes, farside's moderating it a bit, but still assuming that both won't happen at the same time, something which seems to me quite delaying and quite absurd.

FOS: Akonas

self immunity looks scummie.

Somehow true... But that kind of action seems attracting attentions, I still have a doubt that a scum would attract attention like that.

Hello Mr. WIFOM. How are you today?

WIFOM, but not. I still think it's a valid argument because scum probably wouldn't want to draw that much attention. I mean, sure, scum could want to seem pro-town, but self-immunity just draws attention, and doesn't make you seem pro-town. I'm not saying it's a real town tell, because it's not, but I don't see why scum would

want

to draw attention in that way.

The primary argument against me from hasdgfas and farside22 seems to be that I blow things out of proportion, largely based on my "OMGUSFOSWTFBBQ." A serious accusation, clearly. However, something didn't (and still doesn't) sit right with me regarding either of them. They both seem to be wanting to get on me, and the primary argument from the two of them is that I voted for selfimmunity (mostly to see if I could, and if I could, that'd be a good place to keep it; after all, I trust myself), and then did my FOS thingy. Now, I was already suspicious of farside22; I still am. I don't have any concrete evidence, but something doesn't sit right with me about them. They don't seem to be contributing that much, there's connections between them... right now I wouldn't be too unhappy with a lynch of one of them (which doesn't mean I want a lynch now, just that that's where my suspicions lie).

Farside22 complains of my so-called "hypocrosy" in post 61. But I just don't see how that argument holds any water. I asked for people to get conversation going and some accusations flowing. She does so, accuses me, I accuse her, and then she's calling me a hypocrite. It's not because of getting things going; it's because she doesn't sit well with me.


Oh, and:

Well that's true, but it takes a majority to open the polls anyway, so its not like they're going to open on us unexpectedly. I think it will be more interesting to keep the voting a secret until the mod tells us who voted for whom. Instead of scum getting to bandwagon with "me too" style votes, they'll have to either keep their votes spread out or give themselves up as a voting block. It will prevent them from acting with unity, taking away their major advantage. Closed voting will also give us LOTS to discuss the following day once we are given the voting record.

No, that's not quite true. We're likely to know where people's suspicions lie. And when it's a close vote, there can be problems. For example, suppose we were to run up a pro-town power role. Said person wouldn't want to reveal him/herself unless absolutely necessary, but if it was necessary, they would want to in order to keep town from lynching them. This way, no one is sure, so people don't have a chance to claim to clear themselves. This is why I want to keep voting known beforehand.

I called you a hypocrite because you statement below. I put it in bold because somehow you missed it with your own statement.

FOS: Akonas

self immunity looks scummie.

That's bull. Everyone would want themselves to be immune - if they are scum, they're safe and can mislead the town; if they're town, they can be sure that scum wasn't given immunity. 'Nuff said.

Vote: Qman

. He's lurking; he's obviously scum (and not just gone for the holidays).

Frankly, I'm terribly confused at the moment. I'm seeing it as playing backwards, i.e. awarding immunity. It's...weird.

Correct. That's why it hasn't gone anywhere. All in good time, my friend. But for now... well, we need to start somewhere. Mostly, everyone needs to say more.

Come up with a strategy. Make unfounded accusations. Say anything that's on your mind. This is supposed to be an open, transparent system. That way, we get ideas flowing, get thinking, and can root out scum better.

Also,

OMGUSFOSWTFBBQ:farside22

.

You OMGUSFOS me because I did exactly what you said people should be doing that is why you comment is hypocritical. I'm making comments to you because you are over reacting and I'm supposed to just sit their and take it?
You said I was yelling at you. Now because hasd agreed with me he is my partner. I now see that my first comment set you up against me and now I'm starting to think you are making things up so people will stop looking at you because you are over reacting. At first I just blew it off figuring you were right why would scum point at themselves. I am starting to wonder more and more if I hit a nerve with you which is why you have come back at me.
Since you have stated the back and forth may I state that only half the people are really talking in this thread. Here is what my thoughts are in pertaining to your claim against me.
I didn't like your self immunity because it seemed odd and then FOS'ed it to start the talks. My vote on hasdfas was because I only knew two people in the game and gave it to one of the two people I knew. I'm not sure how many games you are in but scum typically either distance themselves from each other. That is why I never would have consider you and Holy together. If you are not scum then maybe you should stop over reacting to the FOS and move on. Apparently to me it seems to be bothering you too much at this point.

[farside22]

@Qman:

I know it is only four pages, but do you have any insight on who is scum and why.

@Opie:

Same comment as Qman.
I know it is early in the game, but we should start somewhere.

I have 3 people I just feel are scum. Some of it is the way the state things that had me raise an eyebrow.

Holy - States the FOS I placed may be true then defends Akonas. I pushed my question more because I found her comments odd more then anything.

Akonas - I just find him over reacting way too much for as simple FOS. He is already calling for a bandwagon and ready to vote someone out. Jumps the gun a little too much for my taste.

hasdgfas - This one is more on gut. His rules question seemed odd. I know this won't make sense, but I thought why would someone want to know if voting was open to the public or hidden. He WIFOM, which Holy WIFOM back voting for me. I thought hasdfas WIFOM holy so I'm confused with those two interactions. Gives immunity to me (female by the way) saying the FOS was insightful, admits it is a null tell, then says Akonas FOS on me and his statement was also the reason he voted for Akonas. I felt like hasdfas has back tracked a bit here.

Vote: hasdgfas

I just found him lacking.

[farside22]

It really should have been at all players, but I asked Qman because he said something recently and you because so far as active players go I found you the least scummie.
Yes I know it is early and scum like to run and hide, but seriously if everyone can say something about who they find scummie we can talk and go from there.
Most people are talking about trying to find out who is scum. Sometimes the best way to do this is to have a few people in mind and discuss. Lurkers will be noted as well as those who don't seem to have a real good POV. In the long run a scum discussion is better then no discussion.

[farside22]

@hasdgfas: This is the quote I was talking about. I thought you were WIFOM Holy, but Holy WIFOM this and voted against me so I was confused by the WIFOM.

FOS: Akonas

self immunity looks scummie.

Somehow true... But that kind of action seems attracting attentions, I still have a doubt that a scum would attract attention like that.

Hello Mr. WIFOM. How are you today?

I thought asking the question about open voting was more benifical to the scum actually. There was a night 0 they could have had a discussion on voting and who to get rid of.
I think it would have been entertaining to see who voted for who without knowing that the vote was going to be seen and see what groups voted for whom. I just think it would have made a good trap for the mafia not knowing then the town not knowing that answer.

[farside22]

@Boggzie:

If you wish to not grant immunity to someone that you granted immunity too please see the post from Rishi.

wait, wait, wait - That vote was random,

unvote

, because I've played with mcpaltp before and we had fun.

I hope this is not too annoying, but please say "Un-immunity" if you want to stop granting immunity to a player.

I want people to feel free to Vote and Unvote in an unofficial capacity, if they so choose.

[farside22]

There has only been a few people really talking and trying to figure things out. I still think people puting up their top suspects is not a bad idea. At least it gives us somewhere to go with the discussion. I agree with Akonas. The people he FOSed should be chimming in with something, but adding Boggzie to that FOS. He hasn't really said much of anything useful thus far.

[farside22]

I don't see how that is useless rhetoric:
-You said that I had done little scum hunting.
-You used that as a basis to vote for me.
-You admit that you had not checked to see how much others had done in this game.

Here's why I think that's reckless. When I make these types of accusations, I want to be able to stand behind them. Otherwise I'm focusing suspicion on someone who may not deserve it. And that's bad for the town. This kind of play is either sloppy or scummy.

See, two can play at that game.

What game are you talking about?

It seems if I'm reading things right with Shanba he is doing a meta game style against you because he knows your play style. He questioned it. I didn't see harm in that. As Akonas stated sometimes you just have to start somewhere and make claims. This game is different were votes won't may not scare the scum as easily into putting their foot in their mouth.

[farside22]

Once again Opie I stated after my comment that I should have said everyone needs something on each of the people here playing and see if we can figure anything out.
I have also some thoughts on those MIA or lurkers.

Boggzie

He seemed to panic when Holy asked her question about mcpaltp having the highest immunity.

Rishi wrote:
Immunity Count

*mcpaltp – 2 (Boggzie, ibaesha)

*Would receive immunity if polls opened today.

The question for now is, is mcpaltp really not that scummy to deserved the immunity? Still too early to tell though.

wait, wait, wait - That vote was random, unvote, because I've played with mcpaltp before and we had fun.
I don't like the implication this early that the vote was scummy.[/quote]

Holy didn't say anything about people voting against him as scummy. She was asking if he deserved immunity.

As for the other ones. Out of most of the lurkers QuickBen and ibaesha haven't really stated much of anything. At least with Rigel and Qman I felt I got something out of their post besides just noise.

[farside22]

@Opie:

At least with Rigel and Qman I felt I got something out of their post besides just noise.

This just means they wrote something of substance then nothing at all. You are right Qman had 3 post. I just was thinking of his last post that at least had something of an opinion on people and things in the game. With Rigel he has had a few solid post as well. Where as QuickBen and ibaesha haven't really said anything I found any substance in at all. [/quote]

[farside22]

Anyway, you unvoted unnecessarily in rush.

No I didn't. Did you even read what I wrote?

I simply voted for him because we had played together before. I had planned to unvote when I saw he was replaced anyhow.

It was a random vote, and I tried to "unvote" using the wrong syntax as soon as he was replaced.

Wait a moment that is not how this started. Lets bring up the quotes

Rishi wrote:
Immunity Count

*mcpaltp – 2 (Boggzie, ibaesha)

*Would receive immunity if polls opened today.

Holy

The question for now is, is mcpaltp really not that scummy to deserved the immunity? Still too early to tell though.

Boggzie

wait, wait, wait - That vote was random, unvote, because I've played with mcpaltp before and we had fun.
I don't like the implication this early that the vote was scummy.

Holy asked if mcpaltp deserved immunity, but your comment is a quick unvote thinking she is calling it scummie. She didn't call the votes scummie. However your second comment you stated that you voted for mcpaltp because he was a fun guy and was going to unvote after a bit anyways. So was it a plan from the beginning?

[farside22]

Well that didn't help at all. I'm kind of at a stand still of what to say now.

@Qman:

Where is your commentary you said you would make a few days ago?

@Rigel:

Anything come from that reread as of yet?

@everyone:

Anyone have any ideas where to go from here?

[farside22]

Let's just play this like we would a normal mafia game, except at the end of the day, before deadline, we vote for immunity for whomever we think is the most pro-town. We could have someone keep an unofficial vote count and then when someone reaches what would be lynch status, we all vote for immunity then open the polls.

I was thinking about the immunity with what is today the 13th and I believe the deadline is the 23rd. That's ten days. Not a time to sweat, but not a lot of time either.
We could do a top two vote of who we think is the scummies or top 3. Then do a top 2 vote for who we believe deserves immunity (without voting) and see what people have to say.
For example.
Top 3 scums
1) Qman - 1 good post and has vanished again. I've only played one game with him and usually he is a lot more vocal then this. This may just be meta for me.
2) Boggzie - His excuse just rings hollow in my ears and I just feel he couldn't handle the pressure when asked about a comment. He may feel he didn't understand the game, but with a simple question it shouldn't be difficult to answer.
3) QuickBen - Is he even here any more.

Yes most of my 3 are the lurkers of the bunch. I just felt most others have answered my questions and brought some good points into the game. My top two in doing this are:

1) Shanba
2) Opie
I know that Shanba has gone after opie for some tough reasons. I liked what he had to say. I would give immunity to Shanba before Opie for those reasons.

[farside22]

I'm around. I just have nothing to add, sadly.

You don't have an opinion on anyone as scum or who you would give immunity to?

[farside22]

TBH- I find opie's posts to be most disturbing. I realize he is one of the most prolific posters in this game, but his attack on the "lurkers" rubbed me the wrong way. Instead of just saying "I find the 5 people who posted the least to be scummiest," he could have merely asked direct questions to us to draw us into the conversation. Too often scum go after lurkers day one for an easy lynch. However, there really hasn't been much else to go on, so I can't fault him too much for lurkerhunting instead of scumhunting. Its not enough to make a case against him by any means, but since you're asking, he's my only lead right now.

By opie, do you mean farside?

It may seem like I am being harsh on the lurkers, but if you look I didn't mention ibaesha because I knew she had not been around at all. I chose Qman because as I said he is usually a more vocal player and he has only had one good comment thus far and Quick Ben has had very little insight into trying to find scum unless proded. Finally Boggzie exit just didn't ring true to me.

[farside22]

I can't believe Akonas and I agreed about something.
Must write this down as sign of appocolyse.

Immunity: Shanba

I'm doing this now because I feel good about this immunity. No one else seems to be making as much of an effort as Shanba when it comes to the questions and scum hunting. I'm looking at you Holy and hasdgfas. How about your scum suspects?

[farside22]

Well I feel like I'm trying to pull responses from people and once again Qman gave me something I feel was better then before. I know this is difficult, but I agree with Holy about a top 2 or 3 suspects would be good for the next couple of days. As I stated before I'm being harsh on the lurkers because they need to say something too. Akonas had one point we cant' just look at each other and not look at the lurkers too.
@Qman: I think the only thing I disagreed with you on was Akonas and Shanba. As much as I'm not a fan of Akonas and I know he is not a fan of mine. I think he is playing to get reactions and see what shakes out. I havent' felt him as scum, but more like someone who wants to shake things up. As for Shanba his points about Opie did seem meta. I think he was looking at things that some of us may have missed. I didnt' agree with him, but it was a different point of view.
With everything that Qman said my list has changed because I found myself agreeing more then disagreeing with him.

Top two scum suspects:
hasdgfas - I had my own comments in regards to hasdgfas. His commentary is less then satifactory. He seems to be floating between being here and not trying.
Boggzie: Still leaving a bad taste in my mouth. (waiting for replacement to speak before offically vote)

[farside22]

I'm not sure I see your point with akonas, but again it could be a play style thing. He's played in a style i tend to not like. I'm willing to give it a closer look.
As far as meta, I don't like meta gaming and in general find it useless on my end. Blame IH for that I guess.

Trust me when I say I'm not a fan of akonas play style either. Especially when i'm the one under attack However that doesn't mean I find it scummie. I had another player act that way and it was more of a personality thing then a scum thing.
As for meta I've seen where it works and were it is scum using it in there favor, but more often I've seen it work so that is why I'm more pro-town thinking for Shanba.

[farside22]

Okay I did a quick vote count. As I stated I have no issue if people want to see two people up. This was a Qman put it for a political point of view. Some people stated who they would vote for which I took in account. I did not take in to account the ones people were suspicious of. Still waiting a few people to speak up.

Hasdfgas 4 votes (Qman, farside, Arkonas, opie)
Akonas 2 votes (Qman, hasdfgas)
Boggzie 1 vote (farside)
Rigel 1 vote (Shanba)

Not voted:
Quickben
Ibaesha
Rigel
Elias_the_thief
Holy

[farside22]

@Elias

My question is if you think h-cow is silly case why would you think he is scum? Your comments with who you think is scum doesn't really match up.

[farside22]

Done re-read.

My suspicion laid on:

hasdgfas> At confirmation stage, I noted that he asked whether who voted for whom revealed or not (I think this topic interest scum group more than townies for further strategy). And he did OMGUS'ing each other with Akonas.

Akonas> It didn't across my mind at all about how many anti-town

group

presents on this game, there's no clue about that. So he might have an information about that, i.e. he is the other anti-town group he mentioned (just my speculation though). And his question whether anyone got any interesting leads seems like fishing.

Rigel> Concerns about powerroles. Post #43: Mentioning Doc. Post #82: Mentioning Cop. Still could go either way, can't decide if he is too neutral (i.e. didn't do scumhunting much) because he is scum or because he had a connection issue.

If you were to vote who would you vote for or would you like all three on the list for now?

[farside22]

@akonas- gut feeling

Who would you vote for in the election and why?

[farside22]

Sorry for the double post.
Elias I counted the two people you stated as votes. Since you said you would vote for either one.
Oh since Elias came on I feel he has done a better job then is predessor. I would change my second vote from him to QuickBen who still has yet to offer any really insight.

Hasdfgas 6 votes (Qman, farside, Arkonas, opie, Elias_the_thief, Holy)
Akonas 2 votes (Qman, hasdfgas)
Quickben 1 vote (farside)
Rigel 2 vote (Shanba, Elias_the_thief)

Not voted:
Quickben
Ibaesha
Rigel

Hasdfgas: Do you have anything you want to say before the vote election happens?

[farside22]

You know, I'm not so sure that making it public who we plan to vote for is a good idea. It kind of gives scum a big advantage, knowing where most of the town is going. Since scum are the only ones who would change from what they say, it gives them a lot of power over who is lynched.

That is why I wanted people to name at least 2 players to see what was said. This way there could be more of a discussion between the 2 or 3 people that we found the scummiest. Unfortunately I don't know if we have that type of time left.

[farside22]

Huh. Well, I still think its risky. I dont see much reason that other townies need to see who other people wish to lynch, as scum would change their answer anyways. I think its better to just talk about who youre suspicious of in a broad fashion, and not nail down your most suspicious person.

I don't have an issue with this either, however I don't think people are offering enough information on why they find said person is scummie. I would like to understand better why you find Rigel scummie. I read your post and it was vague reasoning.
What about my comments on Quick Ben and his lack of posting or helping in anyway towards finding scum? Do you think the number of votes against hasdfas is a scum train or valid?
Some people talked about voting pulblic first to see if scum people changed their votes afterwards. Did you think this was not the right tactic and how would you pressure people to talk if not?

[farside22]

I'd love to comment on that, but the Giants game is about to start. I'll try to post something tomorrow.

Damn New England for moving on. At least the game was better then I thought it would be. I think the Giants might win.

[farside22]

Can someone explain to me or point me to the case on me other than my question about voting? Because that's even sillier than what some people say my case on Akonas is based on.

Here were a few quotes I got for you.

Likes to cry WIFOM at others. Worse than Holy! (RE: Post 52) In general his posts make me uncomfortable. The question about closed/open voting while legit is one that I don't think a townie would have asked.
Suspicious

hasdgfas - I had my own comments in regards to hasdgfas. His commentary is less then satifactory. He seems to be floating between being here and not trying.

hasdgfas's last post:hasdgfas wrote:
Qman: you can call me Has, hasd, asdf, or cow, whichever is easiest for you.

So, if we were voting right now, my vote would be on Akonas. His reactions so far have been a bit iffy to me, and have rubbed me the wrong way.
Before that:hasdgfas wrote:

Let's just play this like we would a normal mafia game, except at the end of the day, before deadline, we vote for immunity for whomever we think is the most pro-town. We could have someone keep an unofficial vote count and then when someone reaches what would be lynch status, we all vote for immunity then open the polls.

Other than that, he hasn't posted since the 3rd.

I'm thinking hasd is our best candidate at the moment. I don't like his playstyle thus far because it seems like he's just trying to evade suspicion, say as much as he has to without actually saying anything. Vote: hasdgfas.

Most people seem to agree that you really aren't trying or offering anything in regards to scum hunting. It's been vague or not clear. You lurk without really lurkering. It's like you have nothing to offer and what you did offer hasn't been much except to point to Arkonas.

[farside22]

You know, I'm not so sure that making it public who we plan to vote for is a good idea. It kind of gives scum a big advantage, knowing where most of the town is going. Since scum are the only ones who would change from what they say, it gives them a lot of power over who is lynched.

Wrong. If someone changes their vote, then we'll be very suspicious of them. What you're advocating is obscuring people's votes, thereby giving scum room to maneuver, change their votes, lynch town. If we keep the whole system transparent, people have to vote for who they say they will or we as a town will be quite angry at them. It's a safeguard.

I'm pretty sure we wouldnt know who changed their votes. Everyone would claim that they didnt.

Rishi already told us the voting would be public knowledge.

In other news, HOLY SHIT THEY WON!!!!

Damn kicker I was yelling at the t.v. till he kicked the FG for the win in O.T.

[farside22]

* All votes are revealed after all players have voted. Any player who has received a majority of the votes will be lynched and the game will proceed to night.

I interpretted this to mean revealed like Survivor style. The votes are revealed, but not who voted them.

This is exactly why I asked the question, and yet people find it scummy when I want clarification.

I told you why I had an issue. If the mod tells us who voted for who we can see the groups and have knoweledge more knoweledge then day one. I thought Rishi's statment meant we would know who voted for who. Hmmm? I don't want to know and won't say more about my thoughts on this for very good reason.

[farside22]

Well tomorrow is election day. I don't know if we have enough information to tell us who is scum, who the SK is, or who we feel is completely town. My final vote will be for

Quick Ben

. I hate to repeat myself, but his lack of communication and scum hunting. No substance can be found anywhere from his post. I just feel that gut feeling that tells me he is not saying much because he is scum.

[farside22]

Before we get to election day, we need to make sure we're ok with who would currently be getting immunity. Currently, that would be farside. I'm perfectly fine with that, as I have been all day. Does anyone have any large objections to farside getting immunity?

I don't.

[farside22]

since the vote won't change who gets immunity I'm not that worried.

Yep. I'm fine with either farside or Shanba, I just don't want to grant them personally with my vote >.> (uneasy feelings).

May I ask why you are uneasy with voting but fine with either one of us getting immunity?

[farside22]

Akonas:

I don't feel that you're playing very pro-town. There have been many instances throughout the game where you've been criticized for your actions, and you never really seem to defend yourself.

Excuse me? I've been defending myself somewhat. You haven't been defending yourself. What exactly have I not responded to yet?

All in all, I'm going to have to say that, if I had to vote today, I'd vote for Akonas. None of the bandwagons seem very strong, but I'm leaning towards his simply because he's not trying to defend himself as much as hasdgfas is. However, I don't like QuietBen's few posts--he's too quiet, ironically enough, and he's not really saying much. He's also very impulsive, which I don't get a good vibe from. However, there's no solid evidence for or against his lynch, so I'm going to stick with Akonas for the time being.

Vote: Akonas

Not trying to defend myself as much? HAsdgfas hasn't been posting much at all, and the only defense I've seen from him recently has been that the case against him is entirely based on the fact that he asked for rules clarification (something I don't find scummy). However, I invite anyone here to look over the last few pages. Look at the amount of content, the amount of stuff I've said, and look at the amount hasdgfas has said. I find his lack of content disturbing. The only people I've seen hasdgfas talk about are himself and me, and a little bit about holy and farside. That's it. None of the "houghts on others should be coming soon." he promised back in post 174

Obviously I'm fine with my vote for farside22. And I understand the votes for Shanba. But the votes for QuickBen and Qman have me scratching my head.

Holy said my avatar was cute. Duh. (That's really the whole reason as far as I know, since the vote won't change who gets immunity I'm not that worried.)

I'd be okay not lynching cow and lynching Akonas instead as they are my top two. We can always just lynch Hcow tomorrow if it comes to that, he will be my top suspect going into night though.

Geez. I don't think that lynching me so that you can lynch hasdgfas tomorrow is all that great of a strategy... consider who you would actually most like to have killed. New information will surely come up tomorrow, and you want tomorrow to be more than just a quicklynch. Please please PLEASE at least just think the lynch through.

I don't know why, but I don't think you are scum. Some of the case I saw against you I just didn't agree with completely. Personally I think you have made more comments and thoughts about scum and play then a few others. I don't trust you, but my gut says you are not scum. My votes has waffled between Quick Ben and h-cow. H-cow hasn't really said much in so far as scum hunting and neither has Quick Ben. H-cow pointed out a case on you, which I felt was a way to deflect votes on a person he felt he could get votes against more then he thinking you were scum. I wish I could explain this better. It is really just all gut feeling in what is said more then anything. Tonight is the night to vote. So if anyone else wants to share thoughts they had or why it would be helpful.

[farside22]

First hi all and good job. This is not an easy game. I do have one question so far.

@Gorgon

Since you replaced a non exsistant player why did you decide to vote against Rigel?

[farside22]

I was surprised to see that Boggzie played this game before. Was the game mechanics different? I didn't play so I was curious to know. I think it would be odd for the Mod to make the same 2 people scum again. Not impossible just odd.

Holy can I get an answer to the question I asked before the day was over. I'm just curious on your thought process.

May I ask why you are uneasy with voting but fine with either one of us getting immunity?

[farside22]

That said, farside22 has done a lot to move this game forward which is why I voted for him for immunity. As of now if I had to gamble, I would pick farside22 as pro-town, but these things I noted make me slightly uneasy and will be in the back of my mind as we proceed

I also remain suspicious of Akonas but a little less so. There still exists the same concerns I mentioned in Day One but upon rereading, I think he has helped move discussion forward and he was on the hasdgfas wagon.

Wait what?! opie, why would that count for Akonas but against farside22? Well, Akonas attack on hasdgfas came too early, was too focused, and too harsh I think to be considered a distancing tactic or a bus tactic.

I'm kind of surprised that you didn't think that Akonas may have used his gambit to give himself some good distance between himself and hascow. It could have been a set up to look good in the end. However I have a thought that Akonas may shot himself in the foot by doing so. For anyone who looked at it to say hey I got the idea from Akonas that those two people maybe scum which would lead to his lynch. That gambit seems a bit much for scum to make.
I wonder if you are trying to do this Opie by first going after me then once that succeeds going after Akonas for pointing out the possible scum connection.
As for HasCow I had trouble reading him. I was focused on Akonas in the begining for exaggerating a situation. Then Hascow kind of came and went because of the lack of discussion being done by others. Hascow was a gut call. Nothing more. In the end I voted against him thinking the votes were between him and Akonas and I didn't think Akonas was scum.

[farside22]

Hrm. After rereading, I really dont see why anyone would want Rigel dead. For one, I'm fairly certain now that Akonas is not scum, and that was who Rigel was after in his few posts. If anything, scum would want him around to puch the Akonas wagon. The thing I find the most troubling is that I do see a large connection between hasdgfas and Farside. There is the fact that the suspicion of has first was made public by FS after the link was brought up by akonas. In addition, he was making the case against Hasdgfas all day, then last minute switched over to Quickben for something he could have accused about 2-3 other players for as well. I dont get why he would vote ben really. He only even made reference to ben twice, and both times about one sentence.

Is the he in this whole thing in reference to me?
If so I mention QuickBen because he is lurking post. He has nothing of substance to really say and hide under the cover of nothing to say. I felt most players at certain points had something to say without being dragged out to say something. I still don't trust Quick Ben because he hasn't given anything to this game without being asked.

[farside22]

also, farside did nothing to derail my suspicion.

Care to explain this more or do you have a better reason? Have you seen anything from Quick Ben to dispute my comment?

[farside22]

I feel like this game is going a bit stale. We've only had meaningful posts from a few players. Again half the town is hiding in the shadows. It's been five real time days and we haven't heard anything from Akonas or QuickBen. (Would prods be warranted?) Qman posted only to promise to post. Again. And Shanba's one post was pretty inconsequential.

I'm not sure if it's the inability to vote for people during the day or what. If the votes were to be held today, QuickBen would have my vote. He has done nothing to contribute to this town. I don't want to repeat myself so for the other reasons see Post 248.

I'm hoping we can get a few more people to weigh in on some things as well. I have a feeling about something, but I need to hear from others before I state what I'm thinking.

Mod could you please prod Quick Ben and Akonas if you haven't already.

[farside22]

Hey Elias, mind quoting the posts you felt showed a link? Farside's read pretty town to me this game.

Day 1 Akonas put a link between me and hascow. I have my reasons for what I did and why to answer back. If you need direct quotes they are long, but I'll post the comments if necessary.

[farside22]

What would you like me to weigh in on?

A tearing noise is heard and then screaming of fustration. People turn their head and see a woman literally tearing her hair out.

Okay last time seriously. Who do you thing is scum? Can you talk without be asked questions? Do you have anything you want to say about anything in the game thus far?

[farside22]

I also feel the game is stagnating somewhat. The problem is, I'm not really sure what to say/who to vote for. I'm not feeling the current wagons.. except possibly Elias. His style doesn't sit right with me. And at the moment, I can't find any good quotes to pull, so I'll just go with the gut.

2 people brought up the post you did where you put me and hascow together as partners. Have you changed your mind in regards to that? Do you still feel it is a pattern you saw that others are bringing up?
Not that I got what I wanted from this discussion from people I feel the following people just stand out for me.

1) Quick Ben - Do we really have to keep pulling teeth to get an answer or input from this person? Lacks any scum hunting and lurks, lurks, lurks.
2) Elias - At first I thought it an odd thing for the Mod to put two people as scum in a game that was scum before however his lastest post doesn't answer anything and he is taking Akonas post and running with it. His vote against Hascow was gut and he talks about my comment about quick ben and hascow, but neglects to mention my comments about Akonas and defending his actions although a few people found him scummie.
3) Holy - Not contributing as much. Very little said in regards to scum. Hasn't really come across saying much of anything.

[farside22]

Holy, why do we have to ask?

I'm just replying farside's concerns about me, at the same time curious for the different treatments directed to QB and me.

Because you shouldn't have to be asked and every time he comes to say something I have to prod him to say anything more. You've been around and I know you well enough that I shouldn't have to ask you anything. I saw you in another game you usually have something to say so that is why I'm treating you differently then Quick Ben who I've never played with before.

[farside22]

^I won't say it now, 'cause I'm still unsure and it solely based from my guts.

So you are just going to sit back and watch and offer nothing on what has been said? You know you aren't going to get away with nothing.

FOS Holy.

[farside22]

At first I thought it an odd thing for the Mod to put two people as scum in a game that was scum

I'm sorry? I don't quite understand.

I thought I read that last game hascow and Elias were scum together, but I can't find that reference. Maybe I'm losing it I have been sick the last 3 days.

[farside22]

However, in the meantime hascow voted farside22 for immunity, because he 'liked what she had said so far'. Would he really be that obvious?

Hello WIFOM. How are you today?

Anyways, I really dont think my vote for hasdgfas was that suspicious.

I mean, sure it can look good as scum to vote for another scum, but thats a pretty weak scum tell seeing as I had already found him suspicious

and couldnt possibly be just "jumping on" to look town.

Are we hypocritical much?

In addition, he was making the case against Hasdgfas all day, then last minute switched over to Quickben for something he could have accused about 2-3 other players for as well

Most of your suspcioun was pretty much said by Akonsas but better. Then you get wishy washy about it.

Hmm. I dont really think Has is a good lynch for today. I'd much rather my Rigel vote stand.

More pressure is brought in about has being a target for lynch and one of many peoples suspects. So we get this next.

I agree with Farside, insofar as I dont agree with the case on Akonas. Though I dont really agree with the case on cow either. I think I'll vote for him though, on the basis of the NK of SJ, as I really dont have anything better to do with my vote, and it looks as if he'll be lynched anyhow.

You said in the end you didn't agree with the case but would vote for him. So did you have a reason to vote or didn't you?

[farside22]

The case wasn't complete BS and most people felt it wasn't enough to vote against him. I really don't get you defending the reason's when he was scum in the first place.

[farside22]

Wait, what? Defending which reasons?

This was your quote man.

I gave my own reasons while simultaneously disagreeing with the others that had been presented. I believe we got lucky on the lynch, as the case on him was BS.

[farside22]

I dont get what youre asking me really...I was attacking your reasons. Then you suggested that I had NO reasons for voting, and I brought up my own. The reason Im defending my reasons is because you implied I had none on the basis that I didnt agree with yours.

You said I didn't seem to hold on to my reason's against hascow. I jumped off and on him. With a few people not really playing I was attacking a few of the slackers because I agreed with Opie on one point that it was possible that one of the slackers (lurkers) could be scum and I wanted more info from them.
You thought the case on hascow was bs, but I don't understand why you thought it was bs. Plus reading back on your final comments against hascow all you said was this.

Elias_the_thief wrote:
Though I dont really agree with the case on cow either. I think I'll vote for him though, on the basis of the NK of SJ, as I really dont have anything better to do with my vote, and it looks as if he'll be lynched anyhow.

You took last game into your mind and just used that as an excuse. I haven't really seen you lay out a case against anyone this game any more then Holy or Quickben. I think you only going against me because someone pointed out a connection of hascow voting and agreeing with me. There is plenty to look at. I want you to tell me person by person at this point your own thoughts and why.

[farside22]

@Opie: Elias claimed the case against hascow was BS and we got lucky. His own vote and comments was basically saying well it looks like hascow is getting lynched I might as well join in and voted for him based on a past game. He didn't think the case against hascow was strong enough so why did he vote for him? He was hypocrital in saying I was switching my vote because that is where the votes were going. I'm thinking why is he critisizing what he felt was scummie about hascow when hascow was scum. It just is confusing to me.

[farside22]

@Elias:

So offering nothing scum wise is okay for people to do? Lurkering and giving no insight is okay too? But I get the shaft because hascow decided to follow me around at the start of the game? Is that basically what you are saying?

[farside22]

I'm talking about the lurkers such as Holy and Quick Ben not you.
All my comments would be WIFOM's for what I have to say in returen about hascow so it really isn't anything that I can prove or disprove in regards to my discussion with hascow. I did state my reason's why I didn't say anything in the begining and why I felt hascow deserved looking into. I look for it tomorrow since you don't want to look for it yourself.

[farside22]

@Elias:

I didn't give you my thoughts yesterday because I was leaving work and have lots of stuff to do when I get home. RL is a bit hectic. I really thought I wrote down why didn't go after hascow and my thoughts, but damn if I can find anything. So here we go.

I initail voted immunity for hascow because I knew only 2 people at the start of the game and he ws one. It was random immunity. After a brief discusion on immunity I agreed with people about doing immunity so soon and decided to find scum.
I pointed to Akonas for self immunity which started a big arguement and admittedly got annoyed with him for getting so uppidy and making a mountian out of mole hills. I didn't really notice anyone till the arguement between us had resolved and I felt he was scummie for his over reaction to thing and making things seem bigger then they were. Plus on a side note he took over a game I dropped out of and said things about me there I didn't not appriecate.
Finally I decided to calm down and reread the game and do my analysis. Where I had hascow, holy and Akonas as my main 3. Then the lurkering and lack of discussion going on in the game had me at odds that maybe as Opie said at least one lurker could be scum. I wanted the people to come out and say something at that point and focus on them. I still got next to nothing from Quick Ben on day one and hascow was starting to come out more and say things I thought was just him trying to deflect to Akonas because he was considered scummie by others. That is when I focus more between Quick Ben and hascow.
Finally in the end when I voted I thought the votes were between hascow and Akonas too. I thought Akonas was more pro town and didn't feel hascow was so in the end I voted for hascow.

[farside22]

@Gorgon:

I put my suspect list and now answering elias questions and coming back with my own comments. There is no way someone can just sit on the side lines without being defensive with something that was pointed out by others and can be used as a scum advantage to take out a town player. I was trying to figure out who would try and make the case and swing votes in such a way so scum doesn't get voted out and I realized I was the patsy in this game. Lucky me. The only thing I was wrong to do was know so few players and choosing to talk with hascow.

[farside22]

Shanba: you dont put any weight on the fact that Farside only started attacking hasdgfas after the link was pointed out?

Already explained that and you have yet to get to my post on that too.

[farside22]

FoS: Holy

. Looking back, I don't like her; she doesn't seem to be saying much of late.

I don't see the fact that farside didn't notice has on her own to be scummy, though I do find it interesting that she and Elias are going at each other the way they are.

I think I was the first person on day one to lay any case against Holy at all.

[farside22]

I read your post explaing the time of your attack, but I dont buy it.

How approperiate.

Well for those still talking I'm curious to ask if the vote count we had helped or hindered us more? Since we did get one scum on day one I have no issue with using a vote count. I still think we should name are top 2 or 3 people to get a better idea on who we all think is scum and see what consensis there is.

[farside22]

Mod can we get a prod on Quick Ben please.

Thank you.

[farside22]

The quote was direct toward akonsas if I remember correctly, but I asked Holy why she thought it was pro-town and Ibby a question. I'm not sure what Mgm is really getting at with what he is calling weak.

[farside22]

(ah, I see Gorgon already took care of it for me)

FoS: Holy

. Looking back, I don't like her; she doesn't seem to be saying much of late.

I don't see the fact that farside didn't notice has on her own to be scummy, though I do find it interesting that she and Elias are going at each other the way they are.

I think I was the first person on day one to lay any case against Holy at all.

This post bothers me; it's not saying anything other than "look at me, I'm great!"

The argument between Farside and Elias really bothers me. There seems to be a definite lack of real content, and I think that this is contributing because there's not much to say when you're not saying much.

Where's Shanba?

You said I didn't say anything on my own about how scummy Holy was and I stated I thought I was the first to bring it up. Now you are saying I'm making it look like I'm great? You are making less sense at this point.
As for Elise and I, well we are disagreeing. He thinks hascow was making a link and I think I was set up as a patsy. That's pretty much it in a nutshell. It's just like I disagreed with you and you over the top attitude. I'm just more aggressive.

[farside22]

I'm curious about Holy's immunity vote. Last tme she had doubts about me.

[farside22]

Thank you Holy. Have you thoughts on scum and why.

My

vote MGM

for now. I didn't like quick ben's disappearing act and non chatter and now Mgm is trying to make some weak case against me.

Immunity: Qman

I consider out of everyone who has contributed the only one I trust at this point.

[farside22]

good omgus farside. if hes making a case against you then OBVIOUSLY hes scum. To me the immunity given by holy seems more like a desperate attempt to save a scumbuddys ass, but I wont know that until farside is lynched.

Tell me where you see he made a good case and not a half ass attempt at a case and I might believe you were right. As it stands you are second on my list for pushing this when it seems only I am listening. Gordon make a WIFOM comment and you go all over anyone who seems to defend me.
I already had my issues with QB from the beginning so you need to get your facts straight before calling my vote against him OMGUS.

[farside22]

@Elias:

Song lyrics:

I've got tunnel vision.

Seriously I didn't like QB lack of contribution I stated more times then I care to count that I didnt' trust him and had him on a list not just for not lurkering, but not contributing anything. Plus Opie stated he didn't really thing Mgm made really anything with what he stated. I think douth protest too much. His case is weak because he is following you around. I smell newbie scum.
You argue only those who are defending me. You need to either really start reading more from every one or it is exactly what I stated above.

[farside22]

Um...newbie scum? Mgm joined in 2004, and I'm 8-1 as scum. Read first, make stupid comment after. The point about what Opie thought it meaningless. Are you telling me that just because Opie said it its true?

Regardless, its bullshit to declare someone scum after their first post.

Ah didn't see the 2004 wonder what his last game was because of what he said and how he did it reminds me of a few newbs I've run into that were scum. As for your record well that is why you are not my #1 suspect but you are up there for not looking past your own nose. By the by your town record is 50/50 you may want to actually try and work on those odds better by not being so single minded.
My point about Opie stating Mgm's case as weak was basically to show I wasn't the only one who thought it was weak.

[farside22]

by the by my comment about Akonsas and my single mindness against him that you call crap was true. During his over reaction to my comments he took over a game that I bowed out and replaced me. He made unnecessary comments in that game about me which further fueled my dislike of him. Here is the game if you are interested
Video Game Character Upick - 522 Located in coney Island.
You may think it is crap, but there was no reason for him to talk crap about me in another game that he replaced me. It was unnecessary and I got upset.

[farside22]

2) That still doesnt justify making him your number one suspect and deciding to vote him, even if the case is weak. It still means in essence that youre voting him because he attacked you. If his case had been strong er in his eyes, Im pretty sure you still wouldve called it weak and voted him.

Nope I would have fought with him just as I'm fighting against you. I have my own gut feelings on people and what they say thank you very much. In my eyes all you are doing is creating a cycle. Lets say I'm lynched based on your comments and fiery fight against me. How many people would be ready to lynch you when I come up as town? I think you've played enough games to know you've just been made a patsy too. Well that's how I feel with the hascow situation. A patsy. Well if your scum you would know better to back down which I think you would have done. So I'm not as sure because you could be using your arrogance to look good no matter what happens. So you remain at #2 till I can figure out which it is.

[farside22]

You obviously didn't read my long post at all when I brought up the fact that I feel like mafia's patsy. You following a trail that hascow brought up and pointing out to all that they should consider it and nothing else is how you look like the next patsy in line unless your scum trying to divert attention to someone since that looks to be the scum plan. Then I go back to my previous comment about how I think you might back down if it could be traced to you, but your aragance may keep you in. I'm in a toss up on that one.

[farside22]

Really how long do I wait on Mgm after I felt that QB was doing nothing and offering nothing? Was my vote really OMGUS since I felt that QB was my #2 behind or next to hascow?
Should his vote really bother me? No it's one vote. His comments were really nothing at all and the fact you found something in it because it is directed at me is very fustrating. I see nothing he offered that made any sense and commented about his comment with my own. I still say he is reaching and you are the only one thus far to disagree with me. Why do you like his comment he made so much? What did he say that you think he is not following someone else? Why hasn't he come on to defend himself?

[farside22]

I see nothing he offered that made any sense and commented about his comment with my own. I still say he is reaching and you are the only one thus far to disagree with me. Why do you like his comment he made so much? What did he say that you think he is not following someone else? Why hasn't he come on to defend himself?

Let's address that last question first. I have to give a presentation next monday, so I'm working my butt off to get everything sorted in time. That means I won't post all that much although I will keep up as much as I can. Also, the majority of posts that would even warrant a 'defense' were made today during business hours when I had no chance to check for new messages.

I'd be the first to admit my case isn't stellar, but what you fail to take into account is that it was based on 4 pages of day 1 information. No one -apart from award-winning scumhunters- can have a solid case that soon. That said, the response it yielded is pretty interesting and unless something interesting comes along in the next few pages in my catchup read, I think I'll leave my vote where it is.

4 pages is warranted a vote and very little commentary? What the heck is your hurry? This game isn't decided by votes right now. It's the votes after the election that matter. I'm not sure if you were aware of this. Now you got Elias all excited for nothing.

[farside22]

Well Akonas if you insist:

Vote count:
2 Votes: farside22 - Mgm, Elias (not offical, but I would say pretty clear.)
1 Vote: Holy - Akonas
1 Vote: Mgm - farside

Not voted: Opie, Holy Gorgon, Qman.


Immunit vote:
*farside22 – 2 (Holy, Qman)
opie - 1 (Mgm)
Akonas – 1 (Elias_the_thief)
Qman – 1 (farside22)

Not voting: opie, Shanba, Gorgon, Akonas

[farside22]

@Holy:

A vote idea helps. We have about 10 days to discuss our thoughts before the polls open which I thought helped out on day one.

[farside22]

Dear Elias,

I stated many times my doubts in QB. Mgm comments and quick vote after four pages and following (usually a newb scum mistake) was the final nail in the coffin. If I never stated my suspicion before then you would be correct in you comments. As it stands Mgm will keep his vote it seems, but does not state anything about continuing his reading.
You are starting to remind me of a few people I've played with. That is not a compliment. Tunnel vision does not win games.

Thank you

[farside22]

Dear Elias,

I stated many times my doubts in QB. Mgm comments and quick vote after four pages and following (usually a newb scum mistake) was the final nail in the coffin. If I never stated my suspicion before then you would be correct in you comments. As it stands Mgm will keep his vote it seems, but does not state anything about continuing his reading.
You are starting to remind me of a few people I've played with. That is not a compliment. Tunnel vision does not win games.

Thank you

Dear Farside,

Calling me tunnelvisioned is retarded. I focus on one event at a time, but I never fail to return to events that I missed originally. I find it easier to concentrate on one at a time and more effective. It wins games, and is not the same as tunnelvision, as I am still aware of other events. The thing that makes your vote noteworthy is that you were attacking several lurkers, and QB was not even the most prominent of them. I saw him mentioned 1-2 times rereading all your posts. There were many candidated that could have been voted for this. Additionally, he was not following anyone, as those were all new points, and brought up after only 4 pages of rereading. Not saying that he will continue rereading does not mean he will not, thinking otherwise is simply being needlessly pessimistic. My vote will stay on you for now, as currently the only thing going on is our discussion. Also, its kind of funny to hear you call me tunnelvisioned when the only thing I've really heard you do throughout the game is lurkerhunt.

Thank you.

from webster.com

tunnel vision

Main Entry: tunnel vision
Function: noun
Date: circa 1942
1: constriction of the visual field resulting in loss of peripheral vision
2: extreme narrowness of viewpoint : narrowmindedness; also :

single-minded concentration on one objective

I attacked Arkonsas, had Holy and hascow on my first list as scum. Changed list to include lurkers. Went back and forth between non talkitive QB to hascow. So no I did not just focus on the lurkers.
In the end voted hascow over Arkonsas because I didn't think he was scum.

[farside22]

Vote count:
2 Votes: farside22 - Mgm, Elias (not offical, but I would say pretty clear.)
1 Vote: Holy - Akonas
2 Vote: Mgm - farside, Holy
1 vote: Shanba - Holy

Not voted: Opie, Gorgon, Qman, Shanba.

[farside22]

farside22, I believe I stated earlier that if I had to vote today, it would be for Mgm.

My bad.

Vote count:
2 Votes: farside22 - Mgm, Elias (not offical, but I would say pretty clear.)
1 Vote: Holy - Akonas
3 Vote: Mgm - farside, Holy, Opie
1 vote: Shanba - Holy

Not voted: Gorgon, Qman, Shanba

[farside22]

Um, this is a strange request, but I'm not really feeling this game at the moment, so...

does anyone want to accuse me of something? I need to be arguing to be engaged... every time I try to reread I find it deadly dull...

Any opinion about who you would vote for why? Anyone you trust and why? These are not difficult questions to answer.

[farside22]

Well with my discussion (that is an arguement) with Elias I feel he is more town, but I question his agressiveness a bit. Usually I see scum back down out of fear of being caught in a lie or saying something stupid. I think Elias is a bit tunnel visioned and really needs to look beyond, but at least he is questioning people and figuring out what their motive is. My only question is why he fights hard against Mgm being voted against.

[farside22]

I fight hard because I found the vote scummy...

I'm not tunnelvisioned either. Talking about one thing at a time =/= paying attention to one thing at a time.

Do you even have an opinon of Mgm? If I get lynched do to votes and come out town can I say I told you so? Just curious
Also deadlines mean you sometimes have to move on and think beyond your narrow scope. I've moved on due to the fact that I agree and wonder about you at the same time. I think your town, but IGMEOY just in case I'm wrong.
I'm not moving from Mgm because OB and now Mgm haven't really given anything to the game at large.
Shanba: As much as the arguement is a pain I really think you need to read and come up with something more then nothing. Heck if you need an arguement say something negative about me and I will be happy to duel with you.

[farside22]

Damn that deadline is approaching fast.

Vote count:
2 Votes: farside22 - Mgm, Elias
1 Vote: Holy - Akonas
4 Vote: Mgm - farside, Holy, Opie, Qman
2 vote: Shanba - Holy, Qman

Not voted:

Gorgon, Shanba

Both Gorgon and Shanba need to weigh in with something at this point. 6 days left to deadline.

[farside22]

@Qman:

I saw 2 people on your scum list and assumed that was who you were leaning on vote wise. If you neither I appologize about that assumption.

[farside22]

So let me get this right, you are saying I'm scum because... I'm not linked with hascow because he didn't say anything to me? He didn't say anything of note to Gorgon (Ibeasha), or Elias (Boggzie) either why are they not on that same list, or even under the same catagory as each other?


Color me confused.

There is a difference. While what he said about those two may not have been "of note", at least he mentioned them. He didn't mention you at all and when you consider scum often avoid mentioning their buddies early in the game that means you

could

be scum.

There is a contradition here. Some people think that hascow talking to me was a link that shows scum buddies. Some say distancing and non communitation can show scum distancing. I tend to think both can work. Basically some communication, but not out right budding up. It really depends on the person's play style. I've not been a game with hascow where he was scum so I have no knoweledge of how he plays.

[farside22]

Both can work, but I see Mgm's point as valid. The problem is, it's not all that great of a discussion-causing accusation.

I'm being voted mostly for lack of contribution of my predecessor and myself earlier in the week. The least people could do is respond to it and make it a "discussion-causing accusation".

I hate to agree with you, but I agree. I looked at the post and asked was it filler to look townie and I don't have an answer. The problem is Elias has been pointing out how scum links equal scum. Your intial four page comment seems to suggest the same thing. How is that you changed your mind on that aspect?

[farside22]

In my initial four page comment, I voted for what I believe to be pushing of a bad case. I don't think that has anything to do with scum links. Links to scum can point to a player being scum in some cases, but relevant links tend to be covert rather than out in the open - at least in my experience.

After much arguement between people and what I said about Arkonsas I had stated it was a way to start a conversation which when he FOS'ed me and said people needed to do something to get a conversation started. I went after Holy because she seemed to flip one way then the other in regards to the self immunity. None of which was in your quotes or comments.

[farside22]

You know I've had fun with this game. I wanted to state that because I've had more chances to argue and talk and seriously I got into this game. I wanted to point out something I found earlier, but with Elias and I arguing I just couldn't get off him until he understood my point which unfortuately I don't think he ever did. But life goes on. Here is what I think.

Opie is scum.

Yes I know this never came from me and what am I talking about. Well I first thought about this day 2 when Opie mentioned the connection between me and hascow.

Here are some initial thoughts after Day One/Night One. Now that hasdgfas turned up scum, I can't ignore Akonas' comments regarding the farside22/hasdgfas connection. Here are the connections that I see as significant (many, if not all of these points have been made by others, Akonas in particular):

Mind you rereading his post from day one he didn't say or thing anything about this. If fact he thought the opposite.

++Of the list above, the one that has the biggest flag is Akonas' Post 68. Trying to create pairs like that unnerve me. It seems to me that it would be advantageous for scum link themselves up with townies. Its a strategy I've seen before and I wonder if this is a clumsy attempt to do just that. ++

I continue to be suspcious of Akonas. Primarily for the way he tried to form pairs. I'm not sure if it's enough to warrant a vote, but enough for me to keep an eye on. ++

That said, I'm starting to think that Akonas might be a better lynch. I’ve had my suspicions about him before, but with the recent revelations of bringing up the possibility of more than one scum group and role fishing further add to it. I need to think about it a bit more but my vote will be for one of those two. ++

Yup 3 different times with pretty much the same statement. Finally we talk about votes and who would we vote for this was opie:

If I had to vote today, it would be for hasdgfas. He hasn't posted much but enough not to be in danger of being replaced and what he has posted hasn't had much substance

His one comment against hascow.

The only vote that really stood out to me was Rigel's. His vote for hasdgfas seemed incongruous to what (little) he had said earlier. Because of that, he was going to be my top scum candidate going into today.

I haven't forgotten Akonas. My biggest suspicion of him is that he tried to make the connections between you and hasdgfas and he and Holy. I did consider that it could have been a distancing move between he and hasdgfas, but if it is/was, they really sold it hard, plus really drawing attention to the two of them, which seems kind of risky for scum to put themselves out there that early, but on the other hand, you're right, it could have been a calculated move to get one or the other lynched Day One. Giving the other a bit of safety.

This was all his day one comments and vote thoughts.

Now day two he has gone from defending me and being slightly suspicious of Akonas to giving him immunity and being suspicious of me. Here are the final quotes I have as proff.

@Akonas: Why "vote" with no comments? "Votes" don't mean anything until election day, so "votes" without any explanation are even less useful. Is there a reason behind it because reviewing your last posts from today do not offer much of an explanation for it either.

One thing bothered my about what Elias_the_thief said in Post 374. He critizes farside22's vote for Mgm after only one post. But I think it's important to remember that before Mgm was QuickBen who's behavior alone could justify a vote in my opinion. Mgm's first post really only added to that. It seemed to me that Mgm seemed to be trying to add some really really weak evidence to the farside22 case. It also bothered me that Elias_the_thief was so quick to jump to the OMGUS argument. First, I think that farside22 made it clear that his vote was also in part due to QuickBen's behavior. Second, if farside22 was so eager to vote OMGUS why would he not be urging a wagon on Elias_the_thief.

Last time, I voted for farside22, I still consider him to be pro-town but the connection to hasdgfas, for whatever it's worth has down graded him in my opinion. My vote for Akonas is based on the fact that I've gotten pro-town vibes from him and since he is not a target to be lynched today, I am not thwarting anyones lynch votes.

You remember when i said that I think if I think Elias sticking so thick on me made me less suspicious. Well I did that same thing to Opie where I questioned him about his day 2 suspicion and he backed down pretty quickly (lost that quote, but it's around if you look). To agreeing once again that the hascow connection with me looks "less pro-town." His comments have become wishy-washy to just following people along.

Final vote: Opie

[farside22]

I really want to hear from Opie in regards to everything I found. His day 2 of linking with Arkonas to saying day one he didn't agreee with it. Plus I looked and he really never said much at all about hascow and kept going to other people. Plus when pressured he backs down quickly which is a scum tell in my book.

[farside22]

Here are some initial thoughts after Day One/Night One. Now that hasdgfas turned up scum, I can't ignore Akonas' comments regarding the farside22/hasdgfas connection. Here are the connections that I see as significant (many, if not all of these points have been made by others, Akonas in particular):

Mind you rereading his post from day one he didn't say or thing anything about this. If fact he thought the opposite.

I did say there was a connection between you two on Day 1, I just don't think you're scum any more.

I think your case is a bit weak, farside. People change their minds. It is worth noting that he changed his mind, but I don't see it as that strong of a case.

Holy: follower. IGMEOY.

People can change there mind, but he had wrote three times he thought you stating the link was suspicious then all the sudden day 2 comes around and he agrees with you. Plus his one comment about hascow when we were talking about votes and he didn't feel that strongly about it. Yet at the end of the day 1 vote he voted against hascow. Why?

[farside22]

March 3 11pm EST.

Tomorrow is the deadline. I think everyone should put who they plan on voting for tomorrow so if someone changes there mind there better be a good reason.

My vote: Opie

[farside22]

farside22, who is it that I've backed down regards. I'm a little confused by that part of your case against me.

With regards to the connection between you and hasdgfas and farside22. I didn't say much about it Day One admittedly, but when hasdgfas can up scum, I reevaluated that connection. I'm not sure why this is a scum tell.

And with regards to how I feel about you, I don't think it's changed all that much during Day Two. I still put you in a pro-town category. I said so in Post 450, but I do think there maybe something to the connection that Akonas pointed out, so I can't say that I see you as the most town player. I'm not sure really what you are building a case against me upon.

start day 2 you mentioned the connection that Akonas brought up and when I questioned you further you were like yeah you are right without giving anything more to it.
Day one you disagreed with Akonas on 3 seperate post and said he was scummie for suggesting it. Now day 2 comes along and you agree with it.
You didn't explain in this post why in the end you voted for hascow when you really never said much for it except once on your thoughts on him.

[farside22]

By the way your last post at the end of day one was you were thinking more of voting against Rigel, but voted against hascow. So I ask before the day ends why?

[farside22]

I was really sure about Opie and his lack of response on the subject at hand did not help. I'm going to do a read through and see if maybe I'm missing something.

[farside22]

LOL! XD

Allright, I don't need a confession, I'm pretty sure Mgm is scum.

Open Polls

Obviously, yesterday lynch tendency was on Mgm or Opie, and last night my Vote was bought by the Politician, which I believe that a Politician means scum.

We are now 5 townies VS 2 scum, so I need all the townies to co-operate because now I know that the scum can buy a vote. And if anyone thinks that a vote bought to take down Opie and saved Mgm didn't means Mgm is scum, tell me right now of why.

Yes, I noticed that although my vote not bought by the politician, Opie still lynched with 1 vote difference, but it didn't change the fact of yesterday tendency and our clueless result might be.

I"m virtually certain that MGM is town now that Akonas turned up cop. I suspect his N0 investigation was Quickben, as that was his first immunity vote (after the joke immunity). I read that immunity as a breadcrumb. This is just my quick answer to Holy's post and looking at Akonas' early posts in each day. I'm going to look at all of his posts here shortly for a more complete read.

I'm really not comfortable with your desire to quickynch someone the cop may have breadcrumbed as innocent, and would vote for you right now because of it. That said your claim of someone that can buy votes is really interesting. Did anyone have this happen to them in Day 1's vote?

I remember seeing him give immunity to QB day one did you see if he ever suspected MGM. I do remember him questioning Holy and seemed to imply that MGM wasn't the play in a sly way when talking with Shanba.

[farside22]

He voted for holy and FOS holy, but did try I notice to get QB to talk more. Here is what Akonas said to Gorgon in response to Gorgon's findings.

Gorgon: How about Holy? I think she's doing some similar lurky things; what do you think?

[farside22]

He voted for holy and FOS holy, but did try I notice to get QB to talk more. Here is what Akonas said to Gorgon in response to Gorgon's findings.

Gorgon: How about Holy? I think she's doing some similar lurky things; what do you think?

I don't know what you are getting at here, are you trying to say Akonas investigated Holy? I don't think he did, but if you do please elaborate on why you have reason to think so.

This is why I'm more inclinded to think he investigated QB actually. I think he was highly suspicious of Holy and seemed to keep putting more pressure on Holy over and over again.

By the way I'm going to be very busy this week so don't expect too much from me.

[farside22]

I know I'm going to hear something on this, but my two cents on the possible vote mover.
If one exsisted I would ask why they didn't (if it was a scum role) use it day one vote to possible cause a tie or help hascow out? Not everyone seemed certain about hascow and if they thought he was in trouble wouldn't scum have moved someone's vote to someone else to help him out?
I'm still suspicious of Holy, but most of it comes from Arkonas comments. Even though I don't believe he had a guilty on her I think he was highly suspicious of her.

[farside22]

Okay I did my reread and I have 3 top suspects and questions for each of you.

Shanba (replaces mcpaltp)

- mcpaltp talks about immunity votes and disappears. Had strong views against Opie early. After Opie defends himself he seems to back down a bit, but admits to not really looking at others scum hunting techs.

Why is holy look like she is scum hunting and Opie is not?

However a few post later says he felt Opie town and Holy questionable. Why?

Second day is very blah with nothing scum hunting wise coming from Shanba. Goes on defensive against Qman, but I'm uncertain on his point of view.

With everything said yesterday why did you vote Mgm?

Gorgon (replaces ibaesha)

- first to spot hascow as scum do to WIFOM comment.

Felt Elias was scummie doe to Boggzie comments.WIFOM comment about what hascow would do. In regards to the argument between Elias and I he took Elias side Hello Mr. 180 degree turn. Care to explain further?

Didn't offer much for a past few comment. Immunity Arkonas. Now states Elias and I could both be town.

(How many times can you change your mind without really saying anything) and in the next breath states I look town and wasn't so sure about Elias.

Holy

votes for me for pointing out that sef immunity can look scummie. Felt her comments back were just weak in regards to her "pressure vote". Day one started strong and went blah after. hascow was on her list of active scumhunters

(how was hascow and active scumhunter?)

Talks about posting our suspects, but didn't do it during the statement. Her first top 3 was hascow, Arkonas and Rigel.

(When did she go from hascow active scumhunter to scum suspect.)

She echoed something already stated about hascow from others. Thought about Akonas more then hascow do to more then 1 scum group comment. Day 2 thinks people should ask her to say more? Nothing added when pressed. States two post later that she is busy. Big long post that really offered nothing about who she felt was scum except Shanba. Claiming she was target by someone to move her vote and assumed scum. Interesting side note: voted day 1 against Akonas over hascow.

I'm not sure who of the 3 I trust the lease they have all said something scummie along the way that just didn't sit right with me.

[farside22]

Honestly, looking back there was not a huge difference between the two, but iwaws enough to guide my very early suspicions upon replacing into the game.

However a few post later says he felt Opie town and Holy questionable. Why?

As I said in my posts before, I liked opie's response to my pressure. Her response was detailed and using good logic, so that she refuted the points against me. As for holy, you may note I already questioned her in my first post, if only marginally. Being an active scumhunter is a decent towntell, but it is not definitive, and I found other things questionable - I forget what they are, but looking back I can see things I dislike now. Do you want me to list them?

Yes I would like to see a list of reason's.
Thank you for your response.

[farside22]

Just to bump this and make my thoughts clearwhere I'm standing suspect wise

Possible Scum
Holy

Midrange in decending order
Farside
Elias
Gorgon
Shanba

Town
Mgm

I'd be willing to lynch holy or farside at this time, though a Holy lynch is much prefered.

Since I know I'll be asked, the reason I list farside second is I feel she engineered both lynches and I think we'd gain some valueable information out of knowing her alignment. That said, it isn't my prefered lynch nor something I'm really going to push for at the moment.

How does my lynch gain you valueable information based on my alignment? What exactly does it tell you except my alignment? Does it tell you who is scum since I'm not? I'm just confused by your logic.

[farside22]

@Holy: I am not trying to instigate an arguement. Mostly the questions in bold were my concern. I understand day 1 had 5 people (something like that) only discussing things, but my concern was your change from thinking hascow was scum hunting to thinking he was scum.
I really think if you say the comment from hascow asking about votes you should have just brought it up instead of letting it sit there. No one may have noticed. Just a thought.

[farside22]

[quote="farside22]

How does my lynch gain you valueable information based on my alignment? What exactly does it tell you except my alignment? Does it tell you who is scum since I'm not? I'm just confused by your logic.

*Stews a moment*
Okay Farside, seriously um... saying you aren't scum really doesn't do a damn thing. Scum are going to say they aren't scum. FEH. Touching on a pet peeve of mine.

Realize while YOU may know your alignment, the rest of the town doesn't.

If you are scum you bussed H-cow on a flimsy arguement and we can go back and look at your interactions with others assuming there are more than 2 mafia if needed. Also the speed and manner of the opie lynch you engineered would have more relevance as to the reasons behind your push. This applies to town or scum.

Please do note that I said it wasn't my prefered course of action. Id rather you stay alive. If we end up lynching for informational purposes, I believe yours would be the best

for that purpose

. I also understand that we might not be in a situation where we can afford informational lynches which is the main reason I don't really want you lynched.

People have wanted top twos all game long, so i gave my order of preference. However you haven't got a lock on the #2 slot yet.[/quote][/quote]

I know this is going to be a stupid moment, but seriously I really can't win with people. If in one game I don't say I'm a townie I get people saying oh look she didn't claim townie in that statement and therefore must be scum. Now I get this. It's really fustrating that whether I make the comment or not someone is going to jump on me for it.
end rant.

[farside22]

Go us for broken tags!

I now it's a bad situation for you, and yes that particular fight is one that is nigh unwinable. To clarify, my problem is your statement "since I'm not (scum). Offhand references to being town are silly, and I generally ignore it. If anything it can work against you with me. Saying flat out "I'm a vanilla townie" is different and doesn't bother me near as much as the offhand references do.

Go broken tags on us.
Seriously can I just say I got slammed in two different games for claiming vanilla townie and it just got fustrating.
Back on subject I know my pushing the opie wagon was one thing, but I don't believe I really pushed the hascow wagon. It was one of those things I just noticed about him. Opie I pushed becuase I found his comments from day one to day 2 inconsistant. I felt really sure when he didn't really answer things being stated even more telling.
I'm not sure about Holy's comments and I'm still waiting on Gorgon. I just found your list very opposite in terms of my suspect and yours. Why is Elias behind me on your list. Why is your list in the order it is in?

[farside22]

As for my list, I assume you aren't asking why Holy or MGM are where they are so lets look at what I have.

Farside - Informational reasons as stated.
Elias - A close run between Elias and Gorgon for "middle of the middle" This also relates to you, as elias was hammering at you and knowing your alignment would affect my thoughts on him.
Gorgon - See above, really no major difference between the two, some small things but... *shrug*
Shanba - Of these four I'm pretty sure Shanba is town, he's seriously got a pro town feel to him both from past days and from his posts today on the vote stealing topic, and is unlikely to earn my vote today.

I'm sorry but yesterday you felt this way.

You, Elias, and Gorgon are this little pack of people with slight differences overall that I could go either way on. Of the three I think lynching you would give the most information to the town. I could see myself changing one off the other two to my top spot, but at the rate Holy is staying on my scum-o-dar, I'm not all to worried about a second suspect right now.

Qman, Akonas ... what gives you the impression that Elias and farside both appear town?

I've said from early day 1 amost that farside has seemed town, her poss just have that feel to me. Elias on teh other hand is really hammering after someone and trying to scumhunt. Even though I think his target is town I view his hunt for scum as a pro town act. In the end they are both gut calls, but I'm about as sure as I can be that farside is town, and I like how elias is scumhunting, regardless of the target, he's putting effort into it. That said even thier interactions against each other haven't tripped any real scum warnings for me, normally in a discussion of the type they had, someone trips up. I didn't see anything that indicated scum to me.

Now what you seem to be saying my alignment leads you to believe Elias is scum for attacking me. Does those who are not scum hunting are trying to find scum look scummie at all. I find it odd that you have them at the bottom of the list of people of potentional scum.

[farside22]

OK, for starters, why aren't we pseudovoting?

Players post

Pseudovote: Name

and we do the votecounts ourselves.

Once we have a lynch majority, all town players commit to voting for the vote leader.

This would allow us to play, effectively, normally, and analyse players' play.

Immunity: MGM

Also, I do feel farside said some rather scummy things in the dialogue with my predecessor (who, fortunately, seems to have played a fairly good pro-town game). However, my current top suspect would be Qman. No real effort ever to push the game in a given direction, just pops up occasionally with his list of all the players (which I maintain is a scummy device) to make it look like he's contributing.

I felt Elias and I were just arguing based on hascow. I liked Elias after everything was said and done. I admittedly made a case against Opie and unfortunetly it turned out against me. I really thought I had something on him.
As for votes we did that and then people started flaking off. Can I ask a question because it really doesn't make sense to me and I want someone elses imput on the subject. Does Qman's comments about voting against those to find out alignment make sense? I mean to me it sounded like he didn't think Elias or I was scum one day and now has us as #2 and #3 as possible suspects. Saying one alignment would say what others may be. Sounds like he is posting an order on who to vote out, but doesn't say anything about the non posters?
Plus second question is what are your thoughts on Gorgon and Shanba who have been less then ideal in scum hunting?

I second the immunity

Immunity: MGM

[farside22]

I'm voting for Immunity for MGM because right now I just don't trust anyone in this game. I don't think it is dumb to vote this way if I don't really trust anyone else to give immunity to.

[farside22]

Alright I'm going to say my top two are Holy and Gorgon at this point. I asked question of Gorgon and unfortunetly he didn't answer them before he called it quits. Holy well you answered the questions I gave you and don't feel as strongly as I did about your as scum, but all I have is my gut on this one.
Pseudovote: Gorgon

[farside22]

Real quickly 2 things I wanted to point out. Vote day is April 7th. So I would like to see where people lay inso far as who they are looking to vote for. I will be on V/LA starting this Thursday April 3 until April 9th (approx). So if you folks have any quick thoughts on your top 2 choices I would like the hear about them.

1. Gorgon
2. Holy

Thanks

[farside22]

Real quickly 2 things I wanted to point out. Vote day is April 7th.

Election Day will likely be pushed back by the number of days it takes me to find a replacement for Gorgon.

Can you give me an idea of a date by tomorrow what day you are thinking to extend to? I'm just curious if I will be around for last minute discussion.

[farside22]

Gorgon (replaces ibaesha)

- first to spot hascow as scum do to WIFOM comment.

Felt Elias was scummie do to Boggzie comments.WIFOM comment about what hascow would do. In regards to the argument between Elias and I he took Elias side Hello Mr. 180 degree turn. Care to explain further?

Didn't offer much for a past few comment. Immunity Arkonas. Now states Elias and I could both be town.

(How many times can you change your mind without really saying anything) and in the next breath states I look town and wasn't so sure about Elias.

Here were my issues with Gorgon. I'm not liking his I think this and change of mind. Unfortunetly he took off and I will most likely not get any answers to my issues on him. As for Shanba I felt when he answer my comments it didn't sound forced and I thought he came off well so he is not at the top of my list anymore.

[farside22]

@MgM. Here are the 3 post I found from Gorgon that I just found contradictory.

Regarding the farside22/hascow connection, I can agree it appears to be there, kinda. First, farside votes hascow for immunity and gets flak for it, and then later she turns around and votes him, based on 'gut'. Possible distancing indeed. However, in the meantime hascow voted farside22 for immunity, because he 'liked what she had said so far'. Would he really be that obvious?

Granted he was asked about this comment and just kind let it role off. Then he back tracks and says the below statement.

I think farside22 is being very defensive with regards to her supposed connection with hasdgfas. I don't see this as townish behaviour - although defending oneself from accusations is normal, focusing solely on defense is not pro-town.

Of the two arguers, farside and Elias, I think Elias is looking slightly better right now.

Elias looks better? Then bellow he states I look townish.

I still have a fairly townish read on him, although farside and Elias both look okay at the moment. At least they have been very active today, even it's through an argument I haven't been able to follow that well (For some reason I usually find it hard to concentrate when trying to keep up with two people 'bickering' in mafia. I just tend to zone out while reading that kind of stuff. ). Saying that they both look town could be a cheap cop-out, but heck, I'll say it as well.

After a brief reread, farside even reads pretty town to me. Not so sure about Elias, especially because of Boggzie - but he's certainly not uberscummy.

Basically he just goes back and forth. I felt like he was trying to just throw things out there to see what sticks without really doing anything.

[farside22]

Hi all I'm back. I would appreciate if Skruffs you could just read my notes I made about Gorgon and see if you can answer the comments I made about him.
@Qman: I'm not really seeing your case against Holy. The whole WIFOM is not as much as you made it out. She did ask you why you didn't bring up the comments earlier which you neglected to mention. We only have a few days. I didn't see anyone else really have there top votes up. Please post your top suspects and why. Top 2 or 3 whatever you have.
One thing since reading everything and I agree with Qman in one respect for now that Mgm has nothing to worry about putting out who we would give immunity to also helps us finding scum. So if you have people you really think of as town I would suggest someone besides Mgm.

unimmunity Mgm
Immunity: The Fonz

After my argument with Elias and a few things that the Fonz has stated I feel he is one of the few people who I see as a town player. He is dogging issues and pressing points well.

Vote: Skruff or Qman

[farside22]

@Qman - most of my feeling for the fonz comes from the argument Elias and I had. I don't have the best past with The Fonz, but I realized the one person I felt good with should get immunity. I disagree that we shouldn't give it to a person we are sure is town, but I think it is too early to worry about that right now. Why Shanba for immunity?

[farside22]

See here is my thoughts and hopefully there better then what I just stated.
Lets say there are 2 scums left in the game. Well they can't control the vote at this point so giving immunity to someone must of us feel the cop cleared is useless. At first I didn't want to give my immunity to someone else because I thought the scum would try and vote out one person most feel is town. Then I realized the odds are against them.
I know the Elias and Fonz comment make no sense. I really did think to give Elias immunity before he left the game, but when The Fonz replaced I know we don't have the best history and thought better of doing the immunity. After I while I realized one thing in this game. Shouldn't people state who they trust and why. Who we feel is a town person and give them immunity?
I will look later at your comment Q-man in regards to Shanba. Hopefully today, but I'm kind of busy.
Skruffs needs to say something else, but right now only Holy, Qman and Mgm seem to be talking.
Mgm please say who you are thinking of voting so I have some thoughts before the day ends. Thank you

[farside22]

Well the politician bought my vote and changed it to Holy. I didn't think Holy was the vote and stated as much. I'm going with Q-man or Skruffs at this point. Maybe both. Mgm any thoughts. I agree with you on Fonz at this point.

[farside22]

Skruffs:

Why did you vote for Holy?

[farside22]

I've said my top scum suspects are, it's Shanba and Skruffs, we're deadlined and I'm already all over scummy anyway, I have my suspects from narrowing the players of who I think is pro-town. Farside22 and Elias/Fonz are pretty much feel like pro-town in my eyes. Qman in the middle, and Mgm is cleared by Akonas.

I figured she would be voting me, so I voted her. The facts bear me out. Are you suggesting there was someone else I should have been voting?


Also: why did shanba steal your vote, and how do we know that is what a politician does?

Holy also had her vote bought and since we can't quote PM's I'm just letting you know that my vote was for you based on the person who left Gorgon and nothing personal.
The fact that you voted on Holy based on nothing but the fact that she said she was voting on you is pretty poor reasoning.

[farside22]

How do you mean? I may not have gotten tot he point where she claimed, but the closest I've ever seen to a politician role is a governor, who can decide to null the town's lynch. That would actually be fitting in this game, where hte lynch comes nearly as a surprise.


There is more to respond to, and I will in my next post.

Farside: I was expecting to be lynched last night. You, holy, and I think someone else all expressed interest, and after my HMM post I expected a lot of flack for that. I was kind of surprised that Holy was lynched instead. Is the order of hte names on the lynching vote meaning anything? If they are numerically based (by order of submission) rather than alphabetical, it may give a hint (if we look at all of them) as to who voted at around the same time.

Beside Holy and myself who else stated they would be voting for you?

[farside22]

Read a few pages from the morning after he died and you'll get plenty ideas as to why he might have investigated me.

I'm sad to see that vote, Skruffs. Especially since you were so insightful in post 624 (up until the point you give immunity to farside despite the scummy things you listed about him.

I'm actually more interested in who Akonas investigated on earlier nights. Since he didn't claim, all we have to go on are his posts.

Pseudovote: farside22

.
I never should have abandoned my earlier suspicions.

When did you have suspicions on me? Have to go will add more later

[farside22]

Well I'm still thinking Skruffs and Q-man at this point. Q-man has flip floped and pushed at Holy. Looking at who voted for holy and who I feel is town Elias/Fonz and Mgm that leaves those two.

Pseudovote: Skruff

This can easily be q-man.

[farside22]

So MGM's *dramatic* flip flop on you wasn't scummy?
HE just said "Oh yeah, I Was suspicious of Farside", voted you, said "And then I forgot why" and unvoted.

Maybe I'm missing the subtlety here, but you just said it was probably QMan because HE flip flopped, and then pseudovoted me.

WHat is going on in that head of yours?

I read the the cop found Mgm innocent. Akonsas seemed to bread crumb as much in my opinion.

[farside22]

Just a note: I'd like to see where I was flip flopping, I've stuck with my decisions to the best of my knowledge and don't remember jumping around. I'd just like to see where I was, as I don't think I did. Farside is still at the top of mine, nothing today or last night changed that.

Two things caught my attention rereading. First you seemed to figure out Shanba and some comment you made I realize now look like you may had figured out he was the politician. Sorry I don't have time to share the quote with you folks, but Q-man explains his reasoning on Shanba based on Shanba explanation of the vote system that Holy was screaming about. Now I have yet to hear anything remotely from q-man in regards to why I am scum, but seeing how he went for holy and now is after me with nothing at all confirms my suspicion. Like I said most of it was the vote for Holy that caught my eye.

[farside22]

Another bump.

I'm still curious abou why The Fonz was voting QMan - when it didn't appear anyone else was intending to. I'm thinking maybe he was distancing.

If no one else is voting him why would he promote it? There are 5 players left at this point. Scum wins (if there is 2 scum) if we don't find the right person.

[farside22]

I don't follow what you are trying to say farside.

If nobody else was voting Qman, but he intended to - because he wanted Qman lynched - why wouldn't he promote it?

yes why promote it. There are 5 players doesn't that mean lylo at this point? Why promote lynching your partner if you are scum. I'm the only one really looking at q-man and you. Mgm doesn't seem to have an opinion and you are looking at the Fonz. If you believe they are partners would you be up for lynching q-man?

[farside22]

I don't follow what you are trying to say farside.

If nobody else was voting Qman, but he intended to - because he wanted Qman lynched - why wouldn't he promote it?

yes why promote it. There are 5 players doesn't that mean lylo at this point? Why promote lynching your partner if you are scum. I'm the only one really looking at q-man and you. Mgm doesn't seem to have an opinion and you are looking at the Fonz. If you believe they are partners would you be up for lynching q-man?

See this REALLY doesn't help my belief that you and Skruffs are the scum. That wording is classic "Shall we go after him for the win?"

I think you are scum partners. I think you missed that bit earlier.

[farside22]

Rather less sure of that atm, actually, largely because I feel like Farside's actions today have been rather disturbing.

Why?

[farside22]

I admitted to be busy but Fonz you haven't yet given a reason to find me suspicious. I think my vote is staying on Q-man vote time.
He had suspicion about Shanba that no one else caught on. If not scum should have killed MGM since most find the cop cleared him. Since someone pointed out that Shanba looked good and had a feeling that would be a person I could see scum getting rid of easily.

[farside22]

My point to q-man is that you noticed it. Do you know anyone who would keep a power role alive who has played this game? Townie is not confirmable. A power role is.
Do you really believe Mgm is GF?

[farside22]

@Skruffs: With polls opening in two day's if Fonz receives immunity who will you vote for and why?
@Mgm: Who are you going to vote for and why?

[farside22]

Well neither the fonz or q-man has given a reason why they want to vote for me at this time. I felt and still feel Elias was town. Mgm was cleared. My vote will be for qman at time of vote.
Here is the vote count from what was said:

farside 2 vote (fonz, qman)
fonz 1 vote (skruff)
qman 2 vote( skruff, farside)

waiting on Mgm
Also note skruff has two votes due to his comment about immunity.

[farside22]

Well neither the fonz or q-man has given a reason why they want to vote for me at this time.

Liar, liar, pants on fire!

I am considering voting Qman because I did so 'yesterday', but I trust in Fonz enough to follow him onto a farside wagon. I'll have to look back to day 1 and see why I voted farside back then (or if I'm mixing up games again)

Nuh-uh. We're at lylo. You had damn well better make your own mind up as to who you think is scum. Frankly, I could still see myself voting any of the four.

Farside for general scumminess and especially misleading the town as to her voting intentions.

Skruffs for his case on me/Qman, which is frankly all-time bad.

Mgm because, well, you've actually been very scummy, non-commital, your predecessor lurked like crazy, and you survived last night despite being the least likely player to get lynched today.

Qman for the reasons outlined yesterday, and because frankly, he could be scum with anyone.

Pairs analysis coming soon.

Tell me exactly were you sight actual case against me.
How did I mislead the town in my vote?

[farside22]

I'm so confused at this point. I think I need a read through.

[farside22]

Heh! My first ever endgame.

Not being funny, but it's

incredibly

obvious the last scum isn't me. Think about it.

I still don't think it is you fonz, but I do question you attack on me and lack of comments the last few RL days before the election. I really felt Elias was town and that Skruffs is the last scum. His Fonz is trying to out his partner thing to me sounds like Skruffs knew qman would come up as scum. I will try and go back and find the quote some time in the next few days.
Fonz I would appreciate your thought on Skruff and I.

[farside22]

I was scum in Nightmare Mafia (Mini 540) I know I was scum in other games, but this was the most recent and just ended. Fun game to read. That game the fonz was town which is why I find his play in this game very different then that one. He was more vocal in some respects then this game. That is the only reason I have my doubts is because of the way he is playing.

[farside22]

In that game, what did you base your nightkill decisions on? Did you tend to kill people who seemed to think you were town or people who seemed to think you were scum?

One kill was because Opie's character could stop my ability. Fonz was targeted by Glork. I wanted roffman in that game because he was confirmed. Basically Rishi and roffman were very town in that game and needed to die. Usually I will go as scum for the most townish person. I still don't know how I (scum) won that game after everything was said and done.

[farside22]

I looked into votes and qman since hascow didn't really do much with anyone but me or holy while he was alive. These were a few reason's that came to my mind on why Elias/fonz town and Skruff's scum
First the vote:
hasdgfas - 6 (Rigel, opie, farside22, Elias_the_thief, Qman, Akonas)
Rigel - 2 (Shanba, Gorgon)
Akonas - 2 (hasdgfas, Holy)
opie - 1 (QuickBen)

When I asked Gorgon why he voted on Rigel it was a pretty poor excuse. Now not to say scum won't out there partner. (qman voted against cow) so it's possible both scum voted against their partner however I didn't see the votes as clear and I don't think it was clear who was going to be voted against day one.
When qman did his first analysis. He says nothing about Gorgon and only says this about Elias.

Elias_the_thief (replaces Boggzie) :
No real read. Boggzie seemed a little jumpy but... Nothign to really go on. Maybe a very slight scum dip, overall
Neutral

Here was the second analysis

Elias - A close run between Elias and Gorgon for "middle of the middle" This also relates to you, as elias was hammering at you and knowing your alignment would affect my thoughts on him.
Gorgon - See above, really no major difference between the two, some small things but... *shrug*

This is the final one:

The Fonz - Was elias at the time, and didn't read as a power role, but I wasn't sure I was toying with the idea he might be the pol. I'm pretty sure Fonz is a vanilla, versus power, townie after last day and nights cycle, plus early today.
Skruffs - Gorgon was worthless and didn't comment, he also was just unclear early in the day and skruffs seemed to be ducking saying anything at the end of the day. Scummy vibes. I discounted him as the poll.

Qman kept going back and forth on Elias scum/ town. But didn't really say much out Gorgon/Skruff till the end. I think it was done on purpose in case he was ever come up and lynched. I think him ignoring Gorgon/Skruffs was an interesting note. But his back and forth between Elias town and Elias scum has me scratching my head.
I think though I keep going back to Gorgon vote when hascow was lynch. I need to look at the rules to verify one thing which was this:
* NOTE: Even though the thread is locked during Election Day, it is not a night phase. Mafia may not communicate.
So I know the scum didn't communicate there votes. I don't think with how day 1 was looking hascow was a for sure lynch and with that in mind and Gorgon's "reason" for voting Rigel I believe Skruff/Gorgon to be scum
My vote for election:

Skruffs

[farside22]

Well, my vote is going to be on Fonz, farside, because I still think you are town, if only because you don't seem to have any idea what's going on (No offense meant). So I guess if I am right, and it is Fonz, he wins, because obviously he'll vote me too with you. If you are scum, and I doubt you are because it's set up too nicely for you to be scum to really make me think you *are* scum, then you win, too.

I am not sure if Fonz wants to include anything else or not. I think it's kind of sad that you are basing your vote on me because of hte actions of known scums and NOT on my own or Fonz's play directly. Scum are always trying to mislead down. I, as scum, when I thought I was in trouble have intentionally ignored town players in my posts and attacked or defended my buddies. Why? Because it leads to WIFOM. Hate, Love, or Ignore, those are the options scum have to try to misdirect town. You should really be looking at what Fonz has done in thie game and how he has interpretted all the other players, not what cow or QMan did.

I'm still thinking about things. Fonz play is not the town fonz I have seen. His play since he started has bugged me. Frankly he has yet to put a case against me or stated anything scum hunting wise. My vote isn't definite.
How about this.
Will both of you please post a case against the person you feel is scum and why. Also include why you think the other person is town. Frankly you both have done something that has wrung my scum radar so I need this to really see who is town and scum. Thank you.

[farside22]

I'm just waiting on the other two to do as I asked. It would be helpful

[farside22]

@Skruffs: Why would fonz want to end the game in a tie? Wouldn't he seeing my vote against you jump on the idea of voting against you as well instead?
@Fonz: Skruffs knows how you feel about me. Wouldn't he as scum also make a case against me to win the game?

Now these questions I ask are more about why I'm confused on who is town and who is the last scum.

[farside22]

If Fonz were to suddenly jump on me and agree with you, wouldn't you be at least a LITTLE suspicious?

A little I agree. The comments he just made now make no sense to me. I'm confused about this comment:

I think farside is the scum is because the whole 'at least one of Fonz and MGM would likely have voted farside' argument is a fairly good one.

I don't get at all what this has to do with me as scum. MGM voted against me. He never had a reason for his vote and frankly at the end his vote against me was a shock. My issue with Fonz saying I'm scummy he has yet to show a case against me. Hence why I'm suspicious of Fonz. He didn't vote for me, but he stated he was suspicious and when asked why he had a vague answer. When I questioned him about it he changed his mind. I'm giving Fonz more time on this because Elias I felt was a great player, but what credit I gave to Elias, Fonz has lost due to his lack of comments.

[farside22]

I think farside is the scum is because the whole 'at least one of Fonz and MGM would likely have voted farside' argument is a fairly good one.

I don't get at all what this has to do with me as scum.

It indicates that Skruffs is

not

the scum. Ergo, farside scum.

My issue with Fonz saying I'm scummy he has yet to show a case against me. Hence why I'm suspicious of Fonz. .

You keep saying this, and it keeps not being true. But if you want, to put your little mind at rest, I'm quite happy to go over all the points against you. Just not right now.

Show me quotes where you stated a case against me then.

[farside22]

Ok Fonz I would apprieciate a response sooner rather then later please.
Also with only 3 of us I would like to know if anyone's vote is locked in at this time.
Skruffs are you sure about Fonz?
Fonz are you sure about your vote against me?

[farside22]

If at the end of hte day, though, if you are voting me and he is voting you, I am going to vote you to make sure that at least we have a chance of winning.

Well Fonz's stalling and lack of comments has me wanting to vote him for the same reasons you are talking about voting for me. I don't want the town to loose. I really think that if Fonz was town he would care and fight more so there wasn't a tie. I have a lot of issues with his play since he took over. I'm trying to get more discussion and less stalling so I can move onto other mini's starting soon.
To keep things interesting and make sure some random scum doesn't get immunity I'm going to do this

Immunity Skruffs

Also I will give Fonz till Friday, but if he doesn't have anything to say by then I would suggest opening the polls.

[farside22]

You are changing your mind about me being scum?

I found Gorgon scummy more then you. I found Elias town, but Fonz's play is anti town and there for scummy. He has focused on me with no case and when asked just keeps saying nothing helpful. In of that self is scummie.
In the end if Fonz is town and you are scum I will be upset because his play has not helped at all and when the game ends I will point out that town lost because of him. However if he is scum well his play lost it for scum.
I really don't want to keep waiting and waiting for Fonz to come up and say something that has merrit behind it. I have asked repeately for something from him and he has yet to give anything useful. I've seen him play town before and his actions are not that of a town member. So between Fonz and you I would say you are town.

[farside22]

Mod I just found this under V/LA from Fonz

Dear all,

Without wanting to depress you all with the gory details, my life's been going to hell in a handbasket over the last week or so. I have a free evening tonight, and will endeavour to post in all my games. After this, I am unlikely to find more than a handful of minutes per evening to devote to MS for the rest of the week. The game I'm modding takes precedence, so I would appreciate consideration of this from game mods and fellow players.

Thankyou

.

I know there is 16 days left before deadline, but I really don't want to see this game stalled/ hurt due to a player that is having problems. If Fonz is busy and agrees I would like to ask for him to have a replacement.

Unimmunity

[farside22]

Actually, I'll bring myself to speed tonight. I've posted in all my other games. 16 days with three players is plenty.

This game is kinda frustrating because it seems so incredibly obvious i'm town.

Elias was town in my eyes, but you haven't posted anything productive and I have asked repeatedly for why you think I'm scum. You thought that yesterday and now today because of WIFOM logic. That is terrible.
I hope you can catch up. I'm trying not to have this game lag on and waiting for 16 days for last minute responses because I have 4 mini's and would like to sign up for one before it fills up.

[farside22]

Listen I know I went back and forth alot especially in the beginning. Things were slow and I was trying to get some people to talk more. I already explained I knew cow which is why when I first gave immunity it was to him. I'm not going to get into the whole WIFOM on this so I will carry on.
hascow caught my attention at first then people started flaking and I agreed that one of the flakers could be scum (which I stated with one of those list that had qman). Then more discussion. Some of the things that I came up with was like a moment were I was like you know what this person is acting a bit too scummy and stated between Arkonsas and hascow I thought hascow was the right person to vote for and I believed at the time (if you look at the votes) that it was close to a tie. I even defended Arkonsas that day.
I admit Opie was my biggest mistake. I really thought him looking at the whole WIFOM logic with hascow and I connection and dropping it when pressed was scummy. It was also the reason you see about 2 pages of argument between Elias and I because he was using the same logic. I figured someone was scum would try and do that. I felt Elias defended himself well and Opie just dropped it which is why I was suspicious of him.
As for my play today. Well there are 3 people left and there should be more discussion going on then there is. I know my alignment. I'm been attacked over and over since day 2 by qman, elias, and you for that hascow connection. I'm just trying to get this game moving along so I can go play in this one mini before it is full (I'm in 4 mini's and can't sign up for another until one is done and this is the closest one to finishing).
A tie does not help. Rishi's rule (which I'm wondering if he is just going to nix it or if we have to vote immunity for someone) is bad.
I'm not sure Fonz who you are trying to convince I'm scum. All that logic is based on qman and hascow actions. I tried to do the same thing in one of my post and in the end both you and Skruff have a possiblity of being scum with them.

[farside22]

A tie does not help. Rishi's rule (which I'm wondering if he is just going to nix it or if we have to vote immunity for someone) is bad.

Consider it nixed for today. I think it leads to interesting possibilities earlier in the game, but I recognize it could be game-breaking right now.

Good

[farside22]

I forgot I even gave immunity to qman. I actually had to go back. I really don't remember what was going on during that time. Things had slowed down to the point of stalling and qman is good at playing and looking town. I didn't think about him more till he started attacking Holly.
As for my vote from QB to hascow it was because I was concerned that Arkonsas might get voted for and believed he was more town then hascow so I dropped qb and decided to worry about him the next day (which I did attack him the next day)
2 pages of argument and you think I backed off? Are you feeling alright? That is rediculous. Elias and I were going over the same points over and over.
I have been asking you since the votes before qman was voted off your case against me. This is the first time you actually made a worthwhile case. Since we came back for this last day everyone has been quiet until recently and with 3 players I would think it would be more active then it has been. I disagree with you about the pace.
I asked if you who you were trying to convince I'm scum as sarcasm. (jokingly thinking that are you trying to convince yourself)
I was voting for qman when the Pol went after my vote and changed it to Holy (Shanba I want to know your reasoning when this game is over). I even said I was going to vote for qman at the end of that day.

[farside22]

Despite saying it was your final vote?

I thought QB was the play, but reading things and seeing the votes I wasn't willing to let Arkonsas be lynched.

no it isn't. You started buddying up to Elias post-argument.

I don't recall buddying up to Elias. I would like to see where you are talking about this or make points quotes as such.

My case was that you'd been illogical, inconsistent, and tied to the dead scum. I made it before. I just explained it here. As I said, my initial leaning towards you as the scum was based as much on Skruffs being town as you being scum.

Seriously you have never said that till now. You pointed out that I was inconsistent with my vote when it came to Holy, but I pointed out that the pol changed my vote. Then you backed off and never said anything else. Then you go back to Qman attack. It wasn't till today that you made any real points.

Actually, you didn't. You said you'd vote Qman or Skruffs. Then yesterday morning, you tested the waters on a Skruffs wagon, before going to Qman when it was apparent it was either he or ye.

I stated Skruff or Qman because I believe them to be scum buddies. I believed Elias to be town and know my alignment so either one to me was a good lynch.

[farside22]

You

believe

(present) them to be buddies?

Yup.
I thought about the night choice.
I thought okay fonz kills MGM and he has to convice Skruffs I'm scum. Well MGM was listening more to Fonz then anyone and would be easy for him to convince MGM to vote against me (especially seeing that MGM voted for me in the first place). So Fonz killing MGM doesn't make sense.
Skruffs kills MGM already see's Fonz wants to lynch me. My bet is Skruffs will never make a case against me and since he already said as a town he would break the tie by voting for me (his only reason to vote against me). In the end Skruffs will vote against me and scum will win. Skruffs will never make a case against me and let you do all the work. Good job scum.

[farside22]

Actually, I was fairly open minded at the start of the day. (Tbh, I actually thought Mgm might be scum after all between the lynch and the nightkill, since Qman was so strongly pushing the 'quickben was investigated' idea. I was expecting to die myself).

I've seen you only attack me. You didn't seem open minded at all in regards to who you wish to vote against.

[farside22]

That particular part would make me more willing to believe Skruffs is town. OTOH, the general gist I've gotten of each of your play is probably less scummy than his. Hmmm... we'll see.

I really wasn't sure. It's a case of whether the omgus instinct or the

farside-is-always-scum instinct takes precedence

.

I then went over both of your posts, and noticed that you appeared to be considerably scummier than him.

I deserve that since almost every game we have played together I was scum. I'm town and I'm not going to lay down and die to make this game over.
I'm just letting you know you are wrong and if Skruffs still wants to vote against me and he is town I owe Skruffs one, but I just don't see Skruffs as town. Gord played awful and Skruffs wasn't attacked by qman or hascow at all. He got to play the under the radar scum. I want a deal with Fonz and Skruffs
If I'm right Fonz the next game we play you will be following me around and telling everyone I am queen of mafia and deserve respect
Skruffs if you are right about Fonz the next game I'm in with you I will state the follow:
"Skruffs is a master of reasoning. His scum hunting is far and above my own megger ideas."
My vote will be for Skruffs in the end. I think this went well, sorry I could not convince Fonz to change his mind on this. Scum set me up to be the fall guy. What else can I say against WIFOM logic.

[farside22]

I too had looked at the interaction between everyone. Most of my thoughts are because of Gorgon. I didn't like his response to why he voted for Rigel instead of hascow. The votes were closer then what actually happened.

I looked into votes and qman since hascow didn't really do much with anyone but me or holy while he was alive. These were a few reason's that came to my mind on why Elias/fonz town and Skruff's scum
First the vote:
hasdgfas - 6 (Rigel, opie, farside22, Elias_the_thief, Qman, Akonas)
Rigel - 2 (Shanba, Gorgon)
Akonas - 2 (hasdgfas, Holy)
opie - 1 (QuickBen)

When I asked Gorgon why he voted on Rigel it was a pretty poor excuse. Now not to say scum won't out there partner. (qman voted against cow) so it's possible both scum voted against their partner however I didn't see the votes as clear and I don't think it was clear who was going to be voted against day one.
When qman did his first analysis. He says nothing about Gorgon and only says this about Elias.

Elias_the_thief (replaces Boggzie) :
No real read. Boggzie seemed a little jumpy but... Nothign to really go on. Maybe a very slight scum dip, overall
Neutral

Here was the second analysis

Elias - A close run between Elias and Gorgon for "middle of the middle" This also relates to you, as elias was hammering at you and knowing your alignment would affect my thoughts on him.
Gorgon - See above, really no major difference between the two, some small things but... *shrug*

This is the final one:

The Fonz - Was elias at the time, and didn't read as a power role, but I wasn't sure I was toying with the idea he might be the pol. I'm pretty sure Fonz is a vanilla, versus power, townie after last day and nights cycle, plus early today.
Skruffs - Gorgon was worthless and didn't comment, he also was just unclear early in the day and skruffs seemed to be ducking saying anything at the end of the day. Scummy vibes. I discounted him as the poll.

Qman kept going back and forth on Elias scum/ town. But didn't really say much out Gorgon/Skruff till the end. I think it was done on purpose in case he was ever come up and lynched. I think him ignoring Gorgon/Skruffs was an interesting note. But his back and forth between Elias town and Elias scum has me scratching my head.
I think though I keep going back to Gorgon vote when hascow was lynch. I need to look at the rules to verify one thing which was this:
* NOTE: Even though the thread is locked during Election Day, it is not a night phase. Mafia may not communicate.
So I know the scum didn't communicate there votes. I don't think with how day 1 was looking hascow was a for sure lynch and with that in mind and Gorgon's "reason" for voting Rigel I believe Skruff/Gorgon to be scum
My vote for election:

Skruffs

[farside22]

Still waiting on Skruff.

[farside22]

Mod: Can you prod Fonz and Skruffs.

[farside22]

Can you prod farside whilst you're at it, if she's into completely unnecessary prods?

You didn't make a comment about my thoughts on skruffs. No need for pissyness.

[farside22]

This post is the main reason I find skruffs scummy.

Another bump.

I'm still curious abou why The Fonz was voting QMan - when it didn't appear anyone else was intending to. I'm thinking maybe he was distancing.

This statement was made before qman's alignment was know. Why would he believe qman was scum. I felt like he was setting Fonz up early to look scummy for voting qman when everyone else was voting holy.

[farside22]

I'm sure Skruffs is going to do one of those last minute things right before deadline and the game gets locked so I can't reply.

[farside22]

Sigh

[farside22]

I kinda want it over with, tbh.

QFT

I've been trying to get people talking for weeks. I need to look back at Fonz's reason for thinking I'm scum and reply back.

The one think Skruff you forgot to mention was the day Holy was lynched Fonz was on the attack against Qman. He brought up a case and voted for him. I still don't understand why you voted for Holy.

[farside22]

I see I already went over everything that Fonz stated.
Fonz what was your thoughts on why I think Skruff's is scum.

Skruff please tell me why and what you see as Fonz being scum without telling me it's because of my play. Thanks

[farside22]

I would like to say that which ever of you is town for this game. You did not help in the end. If it was Fonz you decided for what ever reason to let other games influence you choice and never looked at Skruff especially when he stated he wanted to lynch you, but was willing to lynch me. Why do I get looked at for the same comment, but you ignore Skruff's at all times.
If Skruffs you are town your absence hurt this game in the end. You never really presented a case against Fonz without using appeal to my emotion by calling me a townie.

[farside22]

Fonz is right. No one really stated a vote on you. More were leaning towards Holy or Qman and even I was getting people pointing the finger at me.

[farside22]

That's true actually- Shanba expressed far more suspicion of farside than of you.

Which is why he probably picked me to take a vote away from thinking Holy was scum and I was her buddy.

[farside22]

Yeah, makes sense.

Also, farside, i resent your suggestion that I have let outside events influence me against you. If anything, I've given you more leeway than any other player acting comparatively scummy in my eyes. I think there's a fairly good case against you based on your fluctuating opinion of Qman, in particular. It's frankly ridiculous that Skruffs hasn't paid any attention to it.

I already said qman had his ups and downs. Sometimes he did something that caught my attention then he did something useful. It wasn't until Shanba died that I felt certain he was scum.

[farside22]

MOd: Please an extra 48 hour extension to deadline?

Granted, but I still give the other players an option to open the polls early if they choose.

Please give this time in those 2 days and do not post at the last minute. We have been trying to get you to post for 2 weeks now.

[farside22]

I'm giving him till tomorrow afternoon to post. That sounds fair.
As of 24 hours post something of substance.

[farside22]

I've explained my actions. I have seen Fonz ignore Skruffs when it comes to the simplest and most blatant comments. Yet for some reason those are ok. Well since Fonz has made up his mind and Skruffs believes Fonz will change his mind come vote time. I will prevent that action right now.

Immunity Skruff

Either Skruffs you are indead town and I just couldn't get past how I felt about Elias or you are scum and I was right for 2 days. You win either way this way. Well if you are town you shouldn't vote for me, but I can't think anything I hadn't answered or explained. The whole WIFOM that fonz used is just scum setting up the one person who is the patsy. Yah me.
Skruffs you still have till 2pm PST to say something and I hope you still do.

[farside22]

Immunity Skruff

Hmm. I did negate the random immunity rule, but I guess intentional immunity is still okay.

I did this intentionally in regards to a comment Skruffs made early about Fonz

[farside22]

Skruffs: You may note Farside's latest pirouette. Along with any of her many, many, previous ones.

Reading what Skruffs said about you might make you understand. If I really wanted to appeal to Skruffs without being noticed I would have done this and opened the opens. I'm not stupid.

[farside22]

WIFOM...

Its that pretty much what you are doing with voting on me based on more what qman and hascow did then anything else.
You ignoring Skruffs comments, but calling me scummy when I say the same thing. Elias argued with me in regards to WIFOM so maybe it was to make me look scummy because he/you are scum.
Glad to see you really think I'm that stupid.

[farside22]

You're trying to claim it's somehow wrong to vote you based on the numerous ties between you and the dead scum. You are wrong.

In any case, if you are not scum, the game is over, so there is no point in continuing this argument. I have given Skruffs what I believe are utterly compelling reasons to believe me innocent and you guilty: if he's town and cannot see this, it's still no longer worth dragging out the immense frustration this game is causing me.

I'm not scum. Qman called me out when I stated that I was town.
Do you not think Qman's last comment and immunity for you does not look suspect?
I said I would give 24 hours to Skruffs and I meant it. If Skruffs is scum he was going to win due to your stubbornness. If he is town then voting you tonight would be a win for him.
You seem to think people can't change there mind because they are uncertain about people.

[farside22]

Well I waited the 24 hours.
Skruffs you disappointed me.
Skruffs scum you won because Fonz won't listen
Skruffs town you win going with your instict, but lose this because you couldn't participate as hard as you could have.

Open Polls

[farside22]

Congrats to Skruffs. I want Fonz to write many times over and over. Farside is not always scum. Did you really just have to keep ignoring every scummy comment Skruffs made.
I hate that I was right with Qman/ Skruffs scum and that Fonz just didnt' want to listen.

[farside22]

I wanted to add.
Rishi I really enjoyed the game. I think the fact that the scum hit a power role first N0 really hurt the town. I think that there wasn't votes did cause a bit of delay in the game. Overall an interesting idea.

[farside22]

I was frustrated the last day that no one was talking. I knew Skruffs was scum and felt no matter what I said Fonz wasn't going to listen. I tried to point out how he was scummy and it was like talking to someone with deaf ears. Oh well. I tried hard to prove I was right. I can't believe Fonz thinks I'm really that dumb.