Mini #534 - Vegetable Mafia (Game Over!)

[soupfly]

okay, sorry i'm late...was away on business trip.

vote: destructor

<-- he's clearly scum.

[soupfly]

Umm, how is a self bandwagon any less good than one the vote-ee is not on?

When you vote for yourself and ask others to vote for you, we learn very little about you or the people voting for you, other than you are a strange goofball. Maybe we might learn about people voting for you if they go nuts and quickly put you at L-2 or something, but compared to simple random-voting to test other people's reactions, a self-bandwagon is completely useless and probably counterproductive for the town.

self wagons don't apply any bit of pressure. its like sticking a gun to your own head...what's the point.

Done correctly a random wagon can apply pressure. this would be akin to pointing an empty gun at someone else's head, so long as they don't know its not loaded!

NORTHJAYHAWK NEEDS A BANDWAGON, HE WANT ONE!

Are you intentionally trying to act like a jester?

I agree with ryan here. Oman's play makes no sense. He's usually a pretty reasonable and pro-town guy so the only sense i can make of his antics is if he's a jester cause he's definitely not playing like he usually plays townie roles.

In any case I still think destructor is scum...anybody else see it too?

confirm vote: destructor

[soupfly]

don't be condescending (what is it about you people from birmingham, al?). i've written articles that have appeared in the WSJ and i'm not bothered by thinktank's grammer...just his content --> L-3 is nowhere near scummy, though you should consider that ryan was a L-2. so you're way off not by the fact that you can't write properly but by the fact that you think a random L-3 (which is actually an L-2) is scummy.

[soupfly]

unvote: destructor

--> not saying he's not scum but the original vote was pressure more than suspicion. may decide to revote him but only when i have some firm reasons because we're way past the random stage.

so far nobody has really jumped out at me. i understand why oman, ryan and destructor are drawing heat but i can't say there's anything obvious at the moment.

i'm going to do a reread when i get a chance and hopefully i'll see something that i've missed so far.

[soupfly]

@ soupfly - Are you telling us that your 'original' vote, back in Post 41 was a pressure vote? Why pressure

me

then?

the initial vote and this were not based on anything thing i'd seen in your play:

In any case I still think destructor is scum...anybody else see it too?

confirm vote: destructor

i wanted to give the impression that there was some substance to my vote when in fact there wasn't. was curious to see how others react. curious to see how you would react.

honestly i haven't read the thread closely enough to really form any firm suspicions, but i will. once i get into the flow of the game i will be quite active but for now i need to find the time to do a proper read through.

as far as why you? i'd answer that with the question "why not you"?

sorry for my being not so active but i will make it up.

[soupfly]

for the record the "fake vote" incident is so blatant that i don't think we can tell whether its a scum gambit or a newb mistake. i agree you shouldn't pull stuff like that but the current situation gives us no more than a wifom chance at interpreting it.

[soupfly]

would a veggie claim be helpful?

hear me out on this. i got assigned a veggie in my role and i'm guessing the scum got assigned non-veggie roles. if we claim our veggies then for the townies it will be pretty simple. however, the scum need to invent a veggie and if it doesn't fit the normal veggie pattern or if they claim a veggie that another townie has then it outs them.

if we do this then the best way to do it is in the order that we are listed in the mod's first post:

Still on the Plate (12)
Korran
soupfly
Oman
Phate
Crub
ryan
WhoMe?
kravhen
Y
Northjayhawk
thinktank
destructor

its pretty arbitrary and i'm at the top of the list so you can't say that i'm proposing this in order to be able to post later so i know what veggie not to claim. we may get lucky on the early people posting because if they scum they won't know what veggies to claim

a few things to consider before deciding on this:
1) are there any holes in my logic on this
2) if it makes sense then is D1 the best day to do it.
3) am i misinterpreting the veggie assignments somehow
4) is there a better way to decide the order for claiming? maybe we do a random role and start at the number on the above list and work up/down. i'm fine with the current order but others might not.

[soupfly]

214: Holy crap- Day 1 massclaim? WTF is soup thinking?

i'm not saying that we should claim roles but rather vegetables. my take is that the veggies are to give the game flavor, not substance. the townies are greens and the scum are not.

if we claim our veggie role (which means nothing except for whether we are town or not) then it will be far easier for townies to name their veggies than scum who will have to invent a veggie. if we manage to get two people claiming the same veggie then we may have a hit on a scum. that was the strategy.

but for that to work you need to have an arbitrary predetermined order. otherwise, scum will just claim last after everyone has called out their veggie.

[soupfly]

Closed setup. The scum will all claim lettuce (vanilla).

I don't think a massclaim is a good idea for town.

i'm assuming that phate just claimed his role with this because there's no way he could assume that all vanilla are lettuce unless that is his role. very badly played but i don't think this makes him scum.

the issue of the closed setup is again something that means very little since neither scum nor townies (even power roles) can know this for sure. unless he's not playing by the rules and has interacted with other people outside of this thread then i think its just another newb mistake.

there probably some scum on this wagon because at first glance it screams of bad play. unfortunately its bad townie play and not scum play. he may still be scum but not for this slip up.

I'm quite happy to go either way with the veggie claim, but worry of the chance of outing power-roles. From the exchange between Phate and thedragonprincess, if we're to believe them, it seems that there

aren't

any duplicate roles, so claiming vanilla townie isn't so easy. But this seems game-breaking, which makes me wonder. If scum have safe claims, this achieves next to nothing for the town, while giving scum some info.

i also worry about the issue of the power-roles possibly being inferred if the pattern of veggy assignment is consistent with the role. for instance small veggies being vanilla and bigger veggies being

so for now i'm off of the veggie claim idea (don't confuse this with a mass claim). maybe later but too risky now.

[soupfly]

my home cpu died monday night so i can only access nets at office which is hard since i'm in 7 games. i'll do my best to catch up.

[soupfly]

i'm almost sorry that i brought up the veggie claim thingy, but i didn't think people would start claiming before we discussed it.

i can understand people getting on phate for the vanilla lettuce claim. his reasoning was faulty but it don't necessarily make him scum. also, i believe dragonprincess on her claim of cucumber. it would be too risky for her to claim cucumber without being sure that all vanillas were not lettuce as was a possibility. hence i believe her claim to be truthful. unless there's another lettuce or cucumber out there then i think we can assume that phate and dragonprincess are not scum. i don't mind if we confirm vanilla because while it may make outing our powerroles easier, it also makes lynching easier for us.

in any case we'll understand this better as people's veggie status is revealed on D2. we already got info on phate so there's no point in lynching him based on his claim at this point. besides, think about it...how often do you see scum trying a fake claim when they're not under any pressure on day 1. probability is against it.

i think we need to look in other areas starting with:

vote: WhoMe?

[soupfly]

sorry for copy paste:

ok, i'm back from snowboarding in austria and as a souvenir i brought back 9 screws and a metal plate which they used to reconstruct my shattered right arm...too bad they're still in my arm. funny how i set off all the metal detectors in the airport.

as far as the game is concerned i'm comfortable with my whome vote.

the ryan wagon, i'm not so sure. my inclination is townie. i think our scum are flying under the radar. yiam!

[soupfly]

OK I personally would like to see soupfly go first

I'm down with a name claim, and second soupfly going first.

I'm totally down with going first!!

Claim: Broccoli

since I get to choose the next person to claim:

Next Claim --> Crub

[soupfly]

Next -> ... Actually, I'd like to choose after Oman answers my questions.

keep it going or it will take us a week to do a simple popcorn claim.

[soupfly]

Next -> ... Actually, I'd like to choose after Oman answers my questions.

keep it going or it will take us a week to do a simple popcorn claim.

Reading is hard, but make the effort.

doh, do i have to?!?!?!!!!

[soupfly]

i'm suspicious of green pepper. the others are definitively of one color but for pepper you need to specify that its a green pepper over a red or yellow pepper for it to be green. generally speaking pepper is not an overly green vegetable because it comes in so many different types.

compare this to the pea for instance. there's also different types of pea (black, yellow) but if we believe bookitty, the mod didn't specifiy

green

pea because peas are usually green.

vote: gorckat

[soupfly]

soupfly, why do you find "Green Bean(s)" less scummy than "Green Pepper".

Good question. I'd forgotten about the Bean.

i also find the green bean(s) suspicious. it was slightly less troubling than the pepper because a green bean is not just a bean that is of the color green. in other words green beans and other types of beans are different morphologically whereas a green pepper and a yellow pepper differ only in color.

[soupfly]

anyone want to go ahead and claim mason? if there are still 2 of you left, then stay quiet, but if you're on your lonesome, pipe up.

it's terribly scummy of you to request such a claim when its not needed at this point. whoever the mason partner(s) is should NOT claim yet.

FoS: WhoMe?

[soupfly]

the remaining mason is not a vanilla. he is valuable if he makes it to later in the game where his alignment can significantly improve the chance to lynch scum. a confirmed townie can be very valuable as you approach lylo.

so whoever is the remaining mason should NOT claim.

whoever is pushing for this claim is very suspicious in my eyes.

[soupfly]

unvote: gorkcat

cause i'm not getting any support for my green pepper theory

vote: oman

--> the plural error is bad since he was the only one to make it and i think everyone was pretty careful when they claimed. i did copy paste off of the original mod PM to make sure i didn't misspell Broccoli. by itself its not a dead give away but i think green bean is a weak vegetable due to the inclusion of the word "green". every confirmed veggie that i know of (including my own) does not have the word green in it and one of them (leek) is not even that common of a veggie. also consider "pea"...why isn't it green pea?

all in all i think that our scum are 2/4: ranked in order of scumminess in my opinion:

1) Oman: Green Beans
2) gorckat: Green Pepper
3) destructor: Brussel Sprout
4) WhoMe?: Cabbage

if oman is not guilty then i would go for destructor next. if oman is guilty then i would go for gorckat.

[soupfly]

the NK (think tank) was a leek.

leek is not garlic where i come from. its a big onion.

and of course leeks got worldwide attention because of the the leekspin internet phenomenon: http://www.skammich.com/leekspin.html

getting back to the game:

@oman: i think its unfortunate if you're a townie and you accidentally pluralized green bean, but you have to realize that that is also the type of mistake that scum could make. personally i can get past the pluralization but i also don't like the "green" in your veggie name as i've already argued.

[soupfly]

since i was just at L-1 i think i'll claim before some opportunistic scum does me in.

i am the other

mason

. i am y's mason partner.

i left a bread crumb for Y in post 469:

the ryan wagon, i'm not so sure. my inclination is townie. i think our scum are flying under the radar.

yiam!

YIAM = Y Is A Mason

i'd spoken to y about leaving a similar crumb for me during N1 but he got killed so there was none. we did not speak before the game.

in any case the bread crumb is good enough to confirm me also now that Y is dead because i posted that on day 1 where i had no way of knowing that he was a mason unless i am indeed his partner.

[soupfly]

did i miss something? what is up with all this talk about roast dinner veggies? i just don't see how this is a relevant hypothesis...maybe i missed something.

[soupfly]

Fine, you come up with something then. I am sticking with my hypothesis until I have reason not to.

what exactly is your theory?

and what's with all this talk over roast dinners!?!?

[soupfly]

to put it plainly, i find the roast veggie theory to be completely random. we can probably find other patterns if we look hard enough (as someone already pointed out with the january theory).

getting back to the game, despite Phate's opposition, i think we should pick the least likely vegetable to be part of the greens.

i'm sticking to my original idea that Green Bean and Green Pepper do not cut it. now that i've claimed, I'm going to go back to the original theory and go for Green Pepper (gorckat).

unvote: Oman-Green Bean

vote: gorckat-Green Pepper

and...

all in all i think that our scum are 2/4: ranked in order of scumminess in my opinion:

1) Oman: Green Beans
2) gorckat: Green Pepper
3) destructor: Brussel Sprout
4) WhoMe?: Cabbage

if oman is not guilty then i would go for destructor next. if oman is guilty then i would go for gorckat.

[soupfly]

1) scratch any sort of analysis on the nature of people's vegetables. that was a waste of time. let's get back to normal scum hunting.

2) i'm surprised i didn't die last night because i was on the only confirmed townie. this means that either 1) scum were being careful in case there was a doc who would protect me or that 2) scum did target me and i was protected while the kill resulted from a vig.

i'm tempted to believe that there is a vig because oman would not have a been a top choice for scum to go after given that he was already one of the top suspects from the town.

[soupfly]

i got the prod. sorry for not posting. i've been reading the thread but i just have no inspiration as to who is scum.

at this point i'm not thrilled with the kitty PR because it just seems sort of pointless but who knows.

i wish we'd never done the veggie claim cause that doesn't seem to have helped at all.

anyways i will:

vote: gorckat

here's why:

tdp (could have burned her safe claim to confirm herself by jumoing in after Phate)

...

Phate (likely town due to clumsy claim)

i can't understand why tdp is scummy in his book and phate gets a pass based on his quick lettuce claim. both of them posted their claims before we agreed to do so. why does phate get a pass for this and tdp not?

[soupfly]

unvote: gorkcat

because i see a better target.

vote: thedragonprincess

--> should have seen it sooner.

who do i like: destructor, kitty, crub

who don't i like: phate, gorkat

[soupfly]

should have done this a while back.

vote: gorckat

though i don't want to take matters into my hands entirely, just in case i'm wrong and since we're at lylo, so:

unvote: gorckat

but i think i've made my point as to who i think needs to be lynched.

[soupfly]

bah, i wasn't really all that suspicious of crub...gg!

curious why oman got killed by mafia on N2.