Mini 535: Pick Your Poison 2 (Game Over!)

[scotmany12]

Vote: GF and Encryptor

In the long run, I can see the rb hurting us more than the encryptor.

[scotmany12]

Vote: Encryptor

[scotmany12]

I am now very interested in YvonneSeer's response to that question.

[scotmany12]

I really don't know what to think of the whole ether-bookitty thing yet. Though I do have a question for bookitty. Why are you voting for skitzer over ether? Just skimming over your posts make it seem like you believer her to be scum. Or am I wrong about that.

I do want to suggest ether's vig idea. I really do not see how it will help us, especially if everyone but the vig says they did not send in a choice. Also, we aren't even sure if we have a vig or not.

[scotmany12]

Scotmany, if you're not sure we have a vig, what DO you think we have?

First off, noone is sure if we have a vig not except for the scum and the vig, if there is one. Its also hard for me to think of what we have as I am not viewing that game from a scum point of view. My initial thought, however, was doc, weak doc, and masoniser, but I honestly don't know as of now. The one I am pretty sure they gave us was the weak doc.

[scotmany12]

Oh no, the skitzer wagon is broken! Hopping onto the Ether one now.

unvote, vote: Ether

Why are you jumping bandwagons?

FoS: YvonneSeer

She is possibly weak doc who doesn't like her role, but still...

That makes no sense. I don't see how her jumping bandwagons makes her a candidate for a weak doc.

[scotmany12]

Um, no, that makes no sense at all. A power role will not purposely get themselves killed. Its just ludicrous to think like that.

[scotmany12]

Skitzer, do you want to respond to jdodge's accusations? He makes some very good points and I am interested in what you have to say.

[scotmany12]

If someone doesn't like their role, they usually lurk throughout the game and end up being replaced. They don't go out of their way to have themselves lynched unless they are a jester.

[scotmany12]

Skitzer, do you think it's a protown action to identify and point out a town powerrole when you think you've spotted one? Why or why not?

I meant to point out that there is a possibility she isn't scum and we shouldn't jump to conclusions.

But... you voted her. Is that not jumping to conclusions?

[scotmany12]

My fault, you fosed her. I could have swore you voted her but nm then. Still though, why would you point out a powerrole? As town, we want to keep them hidden from the scum.

[scotmany12]

Ether has a great point. There is an encryptor, so the scum really have no reason to want to out powerroles. Instead, they would just talk about it among themselves. I'm starting to view skitzer as just a really really confused townie.

[scotmany12]

Gorrad, ether is right. It is a stretch. To think that scum will forget the roles that they have, especially when they were voted on, is ludicrous if you would ask me.

[scotmany12]

Does that make him scummy JD? Personally I just though it made him look pretty stupid. I can't really see any reason for scum or town to do what he did, so I viewing it as a null tell.

[scotmany12]

Scotmany seems to be pretty much going with the flow of this game, not making waves, changing his mind and agreeing with the more vocal players, and hasn't given a lot of his own opinions. So I'm going to shake up that flow, a bit, and

unvote; vote Scotmany12

Um, only person I agreed with was ether concerning skitzer on how he would not bother to out a power role because of the encryptor role. If you would look at my posts, they are all my own opinion, and please point out where I changed my opinions.

[scotmany12]

I think its fair to say everyone suspected Skitzer a little bit. I definately did. Why would a protown player point out a powerrole and then vote for her? Also, why would he think that a protown player would try to get themselves killed? The way I viewed it, there were two things skitzer could be. Scum(an unintelligent one as well), or a really unintelligent, confused townie.

Scum have the encryptor role. They can talk during the day, so there is really no need to out a powerrole like that. I really doubt that scum would forget about the encryptor as well. They help voted on it. Now it is possible, but it seems like a huge stretch. So basically, what skitzer did is a null tell. The only thing I can really view it as is a dumb mistake, and both town and scum can make dumb mistakes. So really my opinions have not changed. I more so came to a realization that what skitzer did isn't really a scumtell, just a mistake that both town and scum can make.

[scotmany12]

EBWOP: For some reason I still think skitzer has voted after he brought up the possibility of the weak doc. He fosed her, not voted for her.

[scotmany12]

Ever is me.

[scotmany12]

hey guys sorry im still here.... ive been extremely sick lately and havent been able to concentrate enough to do a reread. im feelin somewhat ok today..... may be able to do a full reread later today; if not today then definately tomorrow

To be fair dragon, this was your last post before those two. It says you are going to do a rereard no later than the day after. You did not do what you said, so of course people are going to grow a little suspicious. Now you didn't update us with your condition, so I think people are entitled to think that you were lurking. I think you are overreacting a little bit.

[scotmany12]

Did he give a reason why?

[scotmany12]

Setael replaces ckillor. Please spell her name correctly.

Yeah chaz, might want to read a little bit...

[scotmany12]

Checking in, guess i'll reread tomorrow, long posts are sad...

[scotmany12]

Alright guys, I have been tired; both mentally and physically; as of late and just haven't had the time to sit down and read through the thread, and I don't think I can provide anything without reading, so please bear with me for the while being.

[scotmany12]

Besides, if I were scum, what would I be doing attracting all this attention towards myself? Are you thinking I'm newbscum?

Blatant wifom right there...

I'm rereading right now, but I'm kinda skipping around instead of going in order (why I don't know). I might not be finished till sometime tomorrow.

[scotmany12]

I don't know why I am posting, I should be asleep right now, but lulubelle scares, especially that last post of hers. In one area, she is fence sitting, though I can't really use this as I am doing this as well. (Let me explain something: I am trying a new playstyle out here where I do not vote on day 1. I probably should have mentioned this earlier. This is the first game I am trying this in, so take that as what you will...)

What gets to me from lullubelle is that it seems she is willing to lynch Yvonne simply for the fact that she may seem like a distraction. Nonhelpful=/=scum... What I see in that post is urgency to end this day...

Also, I do not think a deadline is needed, as posting seems to be picking up a little bit...

[scotmany12]

What gets to me from lullubelle is that it seems she is willing to lynch Yvonne simply for the fact that she may seem like a distraction. Nonhelpful=/=scum... What I see in that post is urgency to end this day...

Did I say I wanted to lynch her? I believe I said I was strongly considering putting her at L-1. Notice, furthermore, that I haven't yet. I say that if someone's scummy play is proving sufficent distraction then, scum or not, they're better dealt with early when town can afford the lynch rather than leave them be until town cannot.

And I'm not desperate to end day one, far from it. If anything, I'm desperate that you people will stop allowing me to lurk.

Lynching a town member is never good. Ok, good. Also, Yvonne has attacked me for fence sitting, but she does not attack lulubelle who did this as well. Her wanting to vote for YS then holding off is fence sitting...

I am trying a new playstyle out here where I do not vote on day 1

Interesting. Do you not plan to vote AT ALL? Is there any circumstance where you would vote today? What do you expect to gain from this experiment?

I would like to go through the day without voting. The reason I am doing this is, I don't know why, but it seems to clear my mind a little bit, it makes things easier for me. If there was ever a situation where we needed my vote on day 1, then yeah, I probably would vote. But I feel like I can voice my suspicions without voting. As I said, this is my test game for this, so I'll see how it goes. This won't stop me from voicing my suspicions though...

Right now I think lulubelle is scum. She says she isn't urgent to end the day, but I sensed urgency in that post about YS. Also, if she does not want to continue lurking, then she should stop. She should not put blame on the town for letting her lurk...

11) scotmany12
OMG, this guy sticks out like a sore thumb to me. Not much content in his posts plus fence-sitting like typical scum. Not surprising to see him agreeing here and there as long as it's a majority, while not really committing to anything.

Probably scum.

I do not agree with the majority...On skitzer, I agreed with ether that the whole blunder thing was blown out of proportion. Scum have an encryptor, so they don't need to point out powerroles. This was not the majority decision. Also I now think lulubelle is scum, which is not the majority. Only fence sitting you can even accuse me of is me not voting, this isn't going to stop me from pushing a lynch on someone who I think is town.

Overall, I think the scum in this game are sitting back quietly since there are plenty of vocal players going after each other's throats. Also, if most of you think I'm scum, it would be best just to lynch me and get rid of the distraction. I'd rather not keep town guessing my alignment over the next few days and preventing proper scum-hunting. If I'm the most scummy player in this game, then you need to get rid of the scumminess. I highly doubt scum will NK me if you guys don't lynch me.

Wow, that is such a scummy thing to say. It is so full of wifom...

[scotmany12]

No, you blamed the town for letting you lurk. You also don't mind if YS is scum or not. You want to lynch her because she is a distraction, not because she is scum...

[scotmany12]

Lulu, you gave me the impression that you don't care what if YS is scum or not. I did not put words in your mouth, that is what I believe you are doing.

Now YS, I never said skitzer was scum like jd did. I was asking question to skitzer, pushing him to respond to accusations against him and such, but I didn't exactly agree with jd. Plus, some people still consider skitzer to be scum, as shown by the last vote count. So this new mindset you speak off is really the new mindset of the town.

That last sentence was a mistake. I meant to say scum instead of town obviously.

No you want to know why it is wifom? It's a pitty move. You are forcing the town to think if a scum would offer themselves to be lynched like you just did. Most of the town now are probably asking themselves if you are tyring to pull a gambit or not...

[scotmany12]

Goddamnit, EBWOP: this new mindset you speak off is not really the new mindset of the town.

[scotmany12]

My mistake, she is making the town over think and over analyze if scum would do what she just did...

Besides, if I were scum, what would I be doing attracting all this attention towards myself? Are you thinking I'm newbscum?

Same can go for that...

[scotmany12]

No, YS, I said that I suspected him. I said that I thought that everyone did most likely, but I did not accuse him of anything; I questioned him on many things.

I think its fair to say everyone suspected Skitzer a little bit. I definately did. Why would a protown player point out a powerrole and then vote for her? Also, why would he think that a protown player would try to get themselves killed? The way I viewed it, there were two things skitzer could be. Scum(an unintelligent one as well), or a really unintelligent, confused townie.

Scum have the encryptor role. They can talk during the day, so there is really no need to out a powerrole like that. I really doubt that scum would forget about the encryptor as well. They help voted on it. Now it is possible, but it seems like a huge stretch. So basically, what skitzer did is a null tell. The only thing I can really view it as is a dumb mistake, and both town and scum can make dumb mistakes. So really my opinions have not changed. I more so came to a realization that what skitzer did isn't really a scumtell, just a mistake that both town and scum can make.

That is the quote where I said I suspected him, and why my suspicions subsided.

Now I looked at the wrong vote count when I said people still suspected skitzer, but Jd still considers skitzer to possibly be scum, you are considering skitzer as scum, I think chaz still suspects skitzer, jordan still finds him scummy...That's four people.

[scotmany12]

Yvonne, I already proved to you that I hardly ever, if ever, went with the majority. The reason I only now have a case on lulu is because I was lurking and neglecting the game, not because someone brought it up against me.

And how am I distancing myself away from the skitzer wagon? I have said that what he did I do not view as a scum tell, especially with there being the encryptor. I clearly took a stance on the whole thing, and am willing to defend it. And once again, I believe there are at least four people who still suspect skitzer; jd, chaz, jordan, and you yvonne...

[scotmany12]

Ether, I haven't had time to go over everyone and consider what I think of them. I personally think jordan is town, and lulu is scum. YS can definitely be scum, but I'm not sold on her yet. Anyone else is basically even in the middle as of now.

(Ever's insinuations that self-defensive WIFOM is anything but null is also ridiculous, for different reasons.)

I disagree with you on this...I personally believe that scum are more likely to do something like this. It's an appeal to emotion; she is trying to arouse pity, along with the over thinking of the town. It's is a scummy move because members of the town should not offer themselves up to a lynch, ever. They should instead try to defend themselves until they are lynched...

[scotmany12]

Ether is the majority of the town?

[scotmany12]

Well first off, that wasn't the whole post of mine, and secondly, did you ever considerI could have looked back, saw that you have been lurking, and that I wasn't impressed with thedragonprincess either. That and you trying to blame your lurking on us...ALSO, what bandwagon? So far the only people who I think consider you as scum are ether and me.

[scotmany12]

I already posted my case lulu, but here it is again. I felt like you were eager to end this day when you posted about Yvonne being a distraction.

Letting lurkers slip by is a mistake. I will not take that back. I ended my own lurking by pushing the town slightly closer to the Yvonne lynch knowing that I would either get rightly jumped for it or that

she would be lynched and the game would progress a little in either case

. I have no problem with attention on me: I rather enjoy it, and day one shouldn't end with anyone avoiding serious examination.

This only helps emphasize that. Ironically, you attack me for following the majority, while you come back and consider helping lynch Yvonne. Hypocritical much?

Now Lulu, the time between my original suspicion post of you to when I called you scum is around 14-15 hours. After my first post, I went to bed, got up, went to school, came home and posted, when I decided that you were scum. Now, it is true that bookitty voted for you, but our reasons our different. You are acting like the whole damn town was voting for you before I called you scum. Ether called you scum, and Bookitty put some pressure on you. Maybe chaz as well, but my reasons are different than all of them...so I was hardly going with the majority.

In you attempt to defend yourself, you are constantly spewing out nonsense, and a nice little OMGUS here:

The degree to which you're bragging about how you're in the minority because you called me on what I did despite the fact that you're either all kinds of wrong or all kinds of lying is starting to look scummy as hell to me.

Also, me defending myself=/=bragging.

That and you trying to blame your lurking on us...

I just want to interject my opinion here...what Lulu said wasn't, "I was lurking and it's ALL YOUR FAULT, town!" She said something more like, "I was lurking, and you guys allowed it for too long." Slightly different, no?

Not to me, no. She is still placing blame on the town for something that she is guilty for. If she would have said, "I think we should start to look at the lurkers more" it would be entirely different. It appeared to me like she was trying to dismiss her responsibility; she was lurking, and she is accountable for it, not the town.

[scotmany12]

And I'm not desperate to end day one, far from it. If anything, I'm desperate that you people will stop allowing me to lurk.

That was what you said first. You blamed the town first and foremost before you took responsibility. People started to pressure you, and then you said that you take responsibility. You expect me to believe you, who I think is scum, in saying this?

[scotmany12]

That, and the fact you are lying now. I have already proven to you that I was no following the majority when I voted for you. And no, I didn't misinterpret you action at all. I saw desperation from you part to end the day. So far, I haven't seen any decent defense from you except that you consider me lying...

[scotmany12]

Once again, she only accepted responsibility after she was pressured. Her first statement was she was upset that the town allowed her to lurk, like it was the town's fault.

She went from this:

If anything, I'm desperate that you people will stop allowing me to lurk.

to this:

I realise that there are other cases, but I admit I was waffling on fully making up my mind on them. I have a difficult time making investiments in a game that seems content to have me as a spectator, so it became clear to me that something needed to change, and now with responses actually addressed to me I can start commiting to my scumreads.

A big difference, and yet she still blames the town to some extent in that last post.

[scotmany12]

I don't really think over defensive describes this...I admitted to my lurking as well, but I didn't blame the town for it...That isn't my main argument though...I viewed her a having an urgency to end the day, and I think she basically admitted to it here:

I ended my own lurking by pushing the town slightly closer to the Yvonne lynch knowing that I would either get rightly jumped for it or that she would be lynched and the game would progress a little in either case.

To me, I'm not seeing any concern as to what Yvonne may be. And yes, she is guilty of fence sitting. I honestly do not see myself really fence sitting, unless you consider the skitzer situation, where I believe I took a firm stance, or the fact that I have decided to not vote during day 1(I will most likely change this, so many times I wanted to vote...) As for Lulu, she did it to a much bigger extent than I did.

[scotmany12]

Well that's the thing, I don't consider it a stretch for scum to try something like that. In bringing attention to herself it appears like she has at least convinced you, mizzy, that she is town. It is definitely well possibly that she is scum trying to provoke that reaction in people.

[scotmany12]

Mizzy, I came back from lurking an attacked someone I thought was scum. My increase in posting makes me scummy? Also, I might be mistaken, but did you not say that lulu's attempt to draw attention to herself makes her town. Why does this not apply to me?

Now lulu, if anyone is stubborn, its you. I have proved that I have not been following the majority, but you and yvonne seem to cling to the idea that I am.

I think I have been a little unfair attacking you for what you said about lurking. It is true that the town should not let lurkers slide by. The thing that gets me is that it appeared at first that you only appeared to blame the town for your lurking, but once you were pressured you started to take responsibility. If you came out right away and said "I'm sorry for my lurking...I shouldn't have done it...the town, however, should not have let me or any of the other lurkers get away with it" or something along that line, then I would not have a problem with it.

I think that your last post only emphasizes that you are eager to end this day. MS is currently down when I am typing this, so I will hand quote your statement:
"At this point, I think what town needs most is progress made towards some concrete infomation - which is, to say, a lynch - or if need be a deadline. While Yvonne seems to be cleaning up her act, I stand by with my earlier comments about the value of eliminating distractions early."
The fact you want a lynch and/or deadline reinforces my statement that you are eager to end this day. Why a deadline? Posting has definitely picked up. There is also no hurry to lynch either. Discussion has picked up, why do you want that to end?

Despite all that, if what you say about chaz is true, then you make a great point. I will have to look at chaz when ms stops going down every two minutes.

[scotmany12]

Yes, I was the second to go after lulu, Ether was the first. My intent wasn't to draw attention to myself, but I definitely did. That act itself is going to draw attention. I thought I found scum, so I decided to go after her. Lulu also did this. She went after Yvonne, who is an opportune target. Was she trying to hide in the turmoil? If you think I am opportunistic for going after lulu, then there is no way you cannot call lulu opportunistic for this:

Scum or not, Yvonne seems to me to be providing such distraction that I can't help but feel our chances of finding scum are improved without her playstyle experimentation going on in the background. Incredibly tempted to put her at L-1 and ask for a claim, here.

She didn't draw attention to the town until she was pressured, you keep forgetting that. So if me and ether never pressured her, I am inclined to believe that she would have went back to lurking.

It's antagonizing that you overlook everything about lulu...

[scotmany12]

First,

FoS: JD and skitzer

It would be helpful if you can say something else besides commenting that the town needs a lynch. I obviously also disagree with that.
Skitzer, everyone is innocent until proven guilty.

Lulu also did this. She went after Yvonne, who is an opportune target. Was she trying to hide in the turmoil?

Lulu didn't vote...or FoS...she merely voiced contemplating it.

If you think I am opportunistic for going after lulu, then there is no way you cannot call lulu opportunistic for this:

Scum or not, Yvonne seems to me to be providing such distraction that I can't help but feel our chances of finding scum are improved without her playstyle experimentation going on in the background. Incredibly tempted to put her at L-1 and ask for a claim, here.

I don't call that opportunistic because she didn't vote or really wagon. I don't like the idea of lynching someone who you don't think is scum, which is why I was wary at first, but I feel she was trying to help.

That's bs. It is definitely opportunism. She comes back and attacks someone who is at l-2. Her not voting is only her fence-sitting.

I would have attacked lulu even if ether did not. She comes in and contemplates putting someone at l-1. Also, I voiced my suspicions, something that Ether did not, and as of now our reasonings are not even the same.

Also

Her intent, I feel, was not to pull attention onto herself but onto the mistake and lack of forward momentum in the game.

I ended my own lurking by pushing the town slightly closer to the Yvonne lynch knowing that I would either get rightly jumped for it or that she would be lynched and the game would progress a little in either case. I have no problem with attention on me: I rather enjoy it, and day one shouldn't end with anyone avoiding serious examination.

She wanted attention...she admitted that she wanted that or yvonne to get lynched...

Also, you seem to ignore my points about her. Her eagerness to lynch, I do not think you can doubt that now. Also, do you agree with her that I was following the majority? Cause I thought I proved that false already... What do you make of her last post as well? Not only does she decide that she wants chaz lynched, all while not voting for him, but she also pretty much refuses to respond to me.

[scotmany12]

Well i was wrong about one thing, sorry. I hardly ignore your responses though...

[scotmany12]

First,

FoS: JD and skitzer

It would be helpful if you can say something else besides commenting that the town needs a lynch. I obviously also disagree with that.
Skitzer, everyone is innocent until proven guilty.

I did attack him mizzy...Great catch on skitzer

Mizzy, what do you think about lulu refusing to respond to me?

[scotmany12]

I'm aggravated too, but I have responded to everything that both you and lulu has posted towards me. I personally don't think I was derogatory or insulting in my attacks either. Really, if she was town, it would be in her best interest to respond because she has nothing to hide. Personally, in her refusing to respond to me, I see two possible reasons.
1. She is content with you defending her, and is no longer responding to prevent herself from accidentally slipping up
2. She simply cannot defend herself anymore; she has given up.

[scotmany12]

Where did I admit to ignoring you? I never did that, because I was not ignoring. Me disagreeing with you does not make me ignoring you. Me not believing you because I believe you are scum is not me ignoring you. Mizzy thinks I'm scum; she disagrees with me and probably doesn't believe me. So is she ignoring me then?

[scotmany12]

Yeah, my last post was in response to that post and you saying that I ignore you, so I'll simply just quote it for you.

Where did I admit to ignoring you? I never did that, because I was not ignoring. Me disagreeing with you does not make me ignoring you. Me not believing you because I believe you are scum is not me ignoring you. Mizzy thinks I'm scum; she disagrees with me and probably doesn't believe me. So is she ignoring me then?

Yes, I don't believe you, because I think you are scum. You haven't said anything otherwise to really convince me otherwise. I read your posts, I think about them, and I usually disregard them because I am not satisfied with your defenses. I have never ignored you.

[scotmany12]

Don't call it craplogic, it isn't. With that said, you made a good post. This is something you do at first when I lay down my arguments against you. Up till now, I wasn't impressed how you reacted to the pressure. Before, I didn't really see any sincerity in your posts; I see that in this last post. Now I am no longer sold on you being scum. Mind you are not definitely town to me either.

Now, at the time of your first post, I didn't feel like there was an eagerness to end the day, at least there shouldn't have been. I didn't feel like the town was ready for a lynch. After the more recent events, I no longer dislike a lynch at this point. One thing though that I just realized, is that you posting is a protown tell for you. As scum, you would be content to lurk as no one has pressured. What makes me think though, is would you have went back to lurking if ether did not begin pressuring you. The thing about you admonishing the town is that

at first

it seemed like you were only blaming the town. As I said, I thought there was different ways you can go about it.

I still disagree with you on me going with the majority. I pressured you after ether...my original post was before both chaz and bookitty. So if you can say I followed anyone, it would be ether. Also, if you are sold on me being the fourth, three people are still not the majority. I'm not pretending anything. I also did attack jd a little. I'm guessing you just missed that post.

As I said, I do agree with you on chaz, I still have not totally reread him though yet. One thing I do want to bring to your attention and I want you to address is this:

I already gave my rationale. Lulubelle accused the girl (Yvonne) who'd made like four posts since she (Lulubelle) replaced in (three pages, a week and a half ago) of distracting her from scumhunting. She herself (Lulubelle) had made only three posts in this span of time, the first of which lightly said that Yvonne's wagonhop was forgiveable and voted someone else (Porochaz). The second attacked Yvonne for a null tell and did nothing else. The third was the distraction post, and also did nothing else.

It's weak excuses for joining a wagon that, while of fairly low quality, nonetheless has more nuances than the person angling to place a vote ever appears to understand. Kinda familiar, really.

What she does say is true...

[scotmany12]

Why are you defending Yvonne in such a manner?

I'm not defending Yvonne, especially, I'm telling you to stop being tunnel-visioned. We ALL thought (cept for the scum) that Skitzer was scum, no? We were wrong. Why be so quick to kill again now? There's a lot to be discussed.

Um, you and gorrad, gorrad mainly didn't even give people time to discuss the claim, so I don't think you are justified to say that we all thought he was scum.

Gorrad, why did you hammer so quickly? So far, I haven't seen you even remotely justify why you didn't allow others to speak. You could have simply came in, said you didn't believe his claim, and that you planned to hammer after everyone had had their input. But instead, you hammer right away. Why?

[scotmany12]

Seemed like you were in a hurry to me at the end of the day mizzy, after the claim. You didn't even unvote to prevent a quicklynch, which is what gorrad did. Also,

Even if you ARE the cop, you're useless to us now.

What? First off, no he wouldn't have been useless. Secondly, if you thought there was a possibility for him to be the cop, why didn't you unvote?

I was headstrong and sure of myself. There was no doubt in my mind that Skitzer was lying through his teeth. So I

voted right away without thinking.

Sorry, that is not pro-town. You are scum.

I'm sorry, I misspoke. I didn't think that others would want to even possibly want to not lynch him. His claim was, in my eyes, complete BS. I still have no clue WHY the scum would want to give us cop.

You didn't know what anyone else was thinking. Even if you didn't believe his claim, the protown thing would be to let others speak their mind. You didn't let anyone do this.

[scotmany12]

You don't know if anyone else checked the thread. You were the first to respond to his claim, and if you really wanted to prevent a quicklynch and wait, I think you would have unvoted.

Well there is always the possibility we have a doc or a weakdoc. Since there was no kill, I think there is a high probability that we have a legit doc.

[scotmany12]

Jdodge also didn't say anything after the fucking claim, because It is possible he didn't check the thread. You clearly did mizzy.

[scotmany12]

Well, you said you wanted to give him time until sunday. I would think that if you really wanted that to happen then you would have unvoted. Or is it because he claimed you were happy for him to be lynched right away?

[scotmany12]

People would have believed you if your partner confirmed you...

[scotmany12]

Also, you had one vote on you mizzy. That's hardly close to a lynch.

[scotmany12]

Bookitty, scenarios number three relies on the doc being weak. Though it is probably more likely that there is a weak doc, I don't think we should rule out the possibility of just a regular doc.

[scotmany12]

I would have protected jd

[scotmany12]

Vote: Porochaz

It seemed like the only reason you were considering mizzy to be scum was because she defending lulu and yvonne. However, it seems you have other reasons to suspect yvonne. Wouldn't you go after yvonne first instead of mizzy? If you thought mizzy was scum for defending those two, wouldn't you have to know their alignments first?

[scotmany12]

Chaz is more scummy than gorrad. His hammer is scummy, and I don't like his defense of it, but chaz is scummier. Gorrad could have also just not been thinking.

Mizzy, when chaz first voted for you, he didn't mention that at all. He focused solely on your defense of the other two. He actually only stuck to that point of you not unvoting until after I questioned you for it.

[scotmany12]

Yeah, I wasn't sure if you were doing it as a point against me or something which is why I said what I said. Still, what I said is true.

[scotmany12]

I noticed that too mizzy. He subtlety defends gorrad. Like in this post

I was headstrong and sure of myself. There was no doubt in my mind that Skitzer was lying through his teeth. So I

voted right away without thinking.

Sorry, that is not pro-town. You are scum.

Hmmm... whats that I smell... oh yeah, bullshit.

Not pro-town =/= scum. I love the way you can automatically get scum from the most crappy places. your arguments are worse than the arguments for going into Iraq... Im currently wating for the "your scum because my cat says so" argument... (althought thats probably what skitzer would of said...)

[scotmany12]

I prefer pie over cake...

A)Chaz is a good choice
B)I don't thing there is really any way for us to protect the doc that I can see off. With the claiming of targets, I really don't know what to say. We probably shouldn't have done it in the first place, but as to whether to continue or not, I am undecided.
C)Nothing really except to continue with trying to catch the scum

[scotmany12]

In that situation mizzy, there would most likely be two deaths. The night kill, and the death of the weak doc. I don't think it is really going to matter how the mod says it

[scotmany12]

We should continue with the claims. Stopping half way through was a bad idea. Say the doc has claimed already. More claims help hide the doc's. Yes mafia know who they targeted, but we already have people repeating targets. More of this and we force the scum to weed trough every claim that is the same. If the doc is one of the ones that did not claim yet, and their target has not yet be mentioned, we risk losing the doc without knowing the results.

So, we lynching chaz right guys?

[scotmany12]

I already said that. We risk losing the doc without knowing the results. The scum have a 1 in 3 chance of getting the doc then, assuming that the three to have not claim are all town. If one, or even two are scum, the chances increase from a one in two chance to a guarantee basically. Its not like the scum are just going to guess either, they are going to research the three. They would already have a high chance of getting the doc, and we will never know the results.

[scotmany12]

Why is lulu withholding information? Why are we not continuing with the claiming of night choices? Stopping in the middle only hinders us.

[scotmany12]

Hey mizzy, why don't you not talk for a little bit and see where this leads to between jd and lulu. You don't need to insert yourself into every single conversation; its not helpful.

[scotmany12]

No, there would have been a time for you to voice your opinion on the matter mizzy. That was not the time.

[scotmany12]

mizzy, i wanted to know if there was anything else I could respond to (that didn't have to do with the doc discussion). What you mentioned I can't explain now (other than to say you're wrong). My posts will make sense to you once I can explain them, but for now it's not in the town's best interest.

Oh great, we have another person not willing to explain anything. That makes three...

[scotmany12]

Jordan, I wasn't saying that she shouldn't comment. I would have rather waited to see where jd and lulu went with the whole thing, but we will never know now. Her injecting her opinion at that point ending the whole conversation(if you can call it that) between jd and lulu. I felt like it would be more helpful if she held off commenting until a later point.

[scotmany12]

Lulu said that after you chimed in. I was interested into how lulu was going to respond to this jd's latest post before you started to question him mizzy. Also, I'm not using you as an excuse, chaz is.

[scotmany12]

I would prefer jd's plan over everyone else.

@JD, do you feel that you still caught scum in Lulu? If so are you still unwilling to release the tell that you think you got from her?

[scotmany12]

JD last night, jordan tonight.

[scotmany12]

Can we get a prod on bout lulu and jordan?

[scotmany12]

Still here, nothing really to comment on as of now. Still happy with my vote on chaz.

[scotmany12]

Um, no chaz, you are wrong. With the current plan, we all act as a weak doc. We are not directing who the weak doc should protect, we are saying who we would protect if we are the weak doc. You claimed townie, so your choice does not matter, as this whole plan is to help gain as much information from the doc without outing the doc.

[scotmany12]

No Gorrad,, pretty sure you agree with us on his scumminess. I reread your post, and I think you might have mentioned twice you thought chaz was scummy. You, however, never made one decent argument against him, or even attempted to do so. Really, it just looks like you are following the people who are voting for him. Then all of a sudden you decide to vote for him? Jd brought up a great point. After yos attacks you, you hastily state that you are willing to lynch chaz. Also, the fact that chaz has claimed vanilla does not excuse you of anything.

It wouldn't surprise me one bit if you turn up scum with chaz, in fact I would put money on it but I'm not really a gambling man. I would still much rather lynch chaz first though.

[scotmany12]

Not to mention that we have discussed that even if the weak doc dies, it doesn't totally incriminate you.

[scotmany12]

Gorrad did you just say your hammer was both scummy and not scummy? You say it was not scummy of you to hammer skitzer, but that is was scummy to hammer to cop. Like, wtf. Explain what you meant by this.

[scotmany12]

What yos just said Gorrad, you are doing the same with chaz. You said like two times you found him scummy, but you never mentioned why. I brought this up just yesterday but you never responded to it.

[scotmany12]

That is a quote from mizzy. That isn't explaining your vote, that is explaining mizzy's.

[scotmany12]

Gorrad, he didn't have any results. It was day 1, and patrick states in one of his opening posts that protown power roles find out their role at the beginning of day 1. Also, please stop ignoring my posts. You have not yet addressed even remotely why you are voting for chaz. Also, if you always use other's peoples reasons, mind pointing us to some games where you do so instead of simply saying you do.

[scotmany12]

Ok, so, um why chaz then?

[scotmany12]

I could go for either a chaz lynch or gorrad lynch. Pretty sure they are both scum. I still think chaz is more likely, but Gorrad is looking worse and worse. Saetel's last post also scared me, not really sure why though. Just a feeling I guess.

[scotmany12]

Mizzy, you are partially right.I was simply not satisfied with Gorrad's answer. Gorrad still hasn't given a sufficient answer for why he is voting chaz. As I said, I think he said chaz was scummy twice, but he never said why. Maybe he just dislikes giving reasoning at all. Personally, as jd said, he switches to chaz right after yos attacks him. It does not look good for him.

[scotmany12]

So you're basically fence sitting then? That's convenient for you. Also, you said there is a good chance that the two could be scum. But when questioned on your contradiction, you don't know which one to believe? I'm really not buying any of this setael.

[scotmany12]

Well, I think you and ether still have to make a choice between chaz and gorrad. Other than that, I don't see any other hold up really to get it moving again.

[scotmany12]

As I said, I think they are both scum, so I could go either way.

[scotmany12]

We are encouraging the weakdoc(if we have one) to protect a probscum? The only person I saw do this was Gorrad, who suggested that he should be targeted tonight, which I have not mention till now, but that was a really scummy post where he did that.

[scotmany12]

If no one objects to me hammering Gorrad, then I plan on doing so after elderad gives his protection choice for tonight. He does not need to give one for the first night, as jordan already gave one. BTW, I assume everyone who said they would protect lulu or jordan are now going to protect yos or elderad.

[scotmany12]

If no one objects besides Gorrad...

[scotmany12]

Ok, so setael is the lynch today. I'm not going to vote for her yet cause I don't think we want the day to end so quickly, and my vote would put her at -1. Kinda wish lulu was still in this game, wish I knew what she was thinking. That's all till now until I sober up.

[scotmany12]

Also, I can safely assume now that ether and mizzy are confirmed since setael is scum. Obv they can't both be scum since there are only 3 scum, so yeah.

[scotmany12]

Just chiming in here will quick. Yos I would disagree with you that jd outed himself. If he did, the scum would have know this, and then would have chose to not nk(or kill jd) leaving the town to question themselves. Since there are two nk's, and no vig, Bookitty had to be the nk, and jd had to die by protecting seatel.

[scotmany12]

I'm leaning towards eldarad as the last scum ether.

[scotmany12]

But, there was still discussion going on between Mizzy and Yos...

[scotmany12]

Hey, I have to reread jordan/elderad. I remember something catching my mind that led me to believe they were scum, but I don't remember what it is.

[scotmany12]

I would prefer jd's plan over everyone else.

@JD, do you feel that you still caught scum in Lulu? If so are you still unwilling to release the tell that you think you got from her?

I think I overreacted a bit. She's still one of my top suspects, but there are others who are scummier.

[scotmany12]

Hey, I'm going to sit down this weekend and try to reread and see what is up with this game. If anything goes good I might actually attempt to make a case against elderad.

[scotmany12]

So, I didn't get to actually read through and stuff. Crap actually came up over the weekend. I plan on getting caught up in my games tomorrow. This will most likely be my top priority.

[scotmany12]

Ok, so I'm viewing Yos as town. He successfully came into the game and lead a lynch on scum Gorrad. If he was scum he could have just as easily went after chaz. Note: Both of them could not have been scum, so it could not have been a simple choice of either/or for yos.

Now, I'm reading over Yos's post about chaz/set:

Please elaborate. (I keep waffling on Porochaz and his interactions with Setael. I'd be at his throat, but with the encryptor, I'm just confused.)

Sure. I got the very strong impression that Setael was trying to get Porochaz lynched yesterday in order to protect Gorrad.
For example, right after I replaced in and put together a quite detailed and strong attack against Gorrad, her response was this:

I feel like someone(s) are distracting from the Porochaz wagon. I've looked over the last several days and see no reason for him to be wiggling out of this lynch. If Porochaz isn't lynched today, I'm not going to trust him all game.

I'm also feeling better about Yvonne and worse about Lulu/Yos2.

unvote, vote: Porochaz

This was the post I kept coming back to yesterday; it really felt like she was attacking me because I attacked Gorrad, trying to imply that everything else was just a "distraction" for the Porochaz wagon, and voting Porochaz. This was the point when I was starting to wonder if Setael and Gorrad were scum together, and if she was trying to protect him by pushing the Porochaz wagon instead.

Then, later in the day, when it was becoming more and more obveous Gorrad was going to be lynched, Seatal was trying harder and harder to link Gorrad and Porochez together; makes me thing that she knew Gorrad was scum, and wanted to make Porochez look bad after Gorrad got lynched.

SHe was really going back and fourth all day between defending Gorrad and trying to link Gorrad and Porochez together. For example, in this post, she strangly tries to do both at once:

I have a hard time believing that scum would hammer the cop the way gorrad did, since scum would know skitzer was about to come up cop and would therefore know how bad that would look. The link between Gorrad and Porochaz is clear and I actually think there’s a good chance they’re both scum, especially after this post where it’s odd that he’d vote me (with no reason other than my suspicion of him) over Gorrad who is his main competing wagon.

I feel suspicous... and unloved...

vote Setael

I could easily vote for Gorrad as well for the same reasons, or Yvonne because Im never going to let this go... I do have a 5 page reread to do if Im allowed, but meh if Im not...

I guess it could go the other way as well - if chaz is scum and knows Gorrad is going to come up town, Porochaz would want to stay off the Gorrad wagon if he thinks Gorrad could get lynched without his help, which seems likely. Either way I think chaz is scum and as I said, the whole gorrad wagon feels like distraction from a porochaz lynch.

Then she goes back to attacking me because I was attacking Gorrad, and trying to imply that the whole Gorrad wagon was just an attempt to distract from the Porochez wagon:

If you think that, Setael, then why, exactally, did you say you are "more suspicious" of me now after my analyis where I came to that very conclusion you're now agreeing with?

Can you clarify this? I'm not sure what you mean. I am suspicious of you because, looking back, if scum tried to distract from a Porochaz lynch by turning the attention to Gorrad, you are one of the main contenders.

And then, finally, she goes back to implying that the two of them are linked, while giving an excuse why she dosn't want to hammer Gorrad herself.

Porochaz is active on the site and appears to be posting everywhere but here. The only reason I can think he would be unwilling to hammer Gorrad is if they are scum together, which would also explain his OMGUS vote on me. Since they're likely both scum, I'm with scotmany on being willing to hammer, but I'd rather see Porochaz do it.

So, I'm pretty sure that if Setael is scum, Porochaz is town; she was trying way too hard to either get him lynched in order to proect Gorrad or, failing that, to link him and Gorrad together in such a way that a Gorrad lynch would make Porochaz look bad.

Overall, I agree with it quite a lot. Set went out of her way to make it seem like there was a connection between chaz and gorrad. She knew that Gorrad would come up scum, so she was attempting to set up chaz for the next day. Unfortunately, the encryptor really puts some doubt in my mind with this whole situation. It would be a tough gambit to pull of though, so I wouldn't be on it.

Now that leaves YS and Elderad. Now while YS has done some questionable things this game, I never really viewed her as that scummy. More as misguided during day 1, and day 2 she came right out and went for Gorrad's throat. There is nothing really that jumps out at me from her. I haven't really viewed her as helpful or scummy. She is just there for me.

So now I start to try and build a case against Elderad. Looking through Jordan, he avoids Gorrad and Set almost completely. Basically, Jordan didn't do much. I actually had him as the weak doc due to him really staying under the radar. Looking over his posts he avoids both Set and Chaz alot until right before he is replaced.This one post really gets to me.

I cannot ignore the fact that Chaz seemingly forgot that he claimed townie, to me, that almost confirms he's lying in my eyes.

Unvote, vote: Gorrad

I love the way Yos attacks you and suddenly you want the day to end RIGHTNOW

QFT. I don't think Gorrad would be too bad a lynch tomorrow looking at this and some of the things Yos pointed out.

Chaz's vote against Set seemed a bit hasty to me, it was a smallish piece of evidence in a game where tbh a lot of people are acting pretty scummy. I find it very odd how as soon as Ether points out a possible Chaz/Set pairing, Set votes for Chaz, but even odder that Chaz points out this, and then votes for Set, so now

both

the players that were linked are now voting for eachother.

I think there is a distinct difference here between what Jordan does and what say me/jd did. Both me and jd were willing to lynch either chaz or Gorrad(jd flipped between the two a couple of times). Jordan, however, wants to save Gorrad for tomorrow. It just does not sit right with me. Scum trying to give the GF at least another night perhaps.

Concering Elderad, his long post is mostly restating what has allready happened. Appearing that he is helpful when really not posting much opinion at all. Then he has the audacity to attack Mizzy even though she is basically confirmed.

Mizzy

You're very lucky you got a confirmable role. I suppose it may be a confirmed townie having a bit of fun before claiming, but each post you made on Day 2 until your claim looked scummier than the last.

LuluBelle / JDodge

It hasn't been said yet, and I wonder why.

One of these two are lying.

You realize what I know.

NOTE TO EVERYONE

: I just headed off that fakeclaim before it happened. Please note that Lulu knows more than she should, but has admitted to not being a weak doc. That implies knowledge she could not have unless she already knows who the weak doc's target is.

The exchange between LuluBelle and JDodge suggests that LuluBelle has some knowledge of who the weak doc targeted. But it also indicates that JD also has some knowledge of the weak doc's actions, or else he wouldn't have been able to lock Lulu out of the half-claim that she started to make.
Let's follow this train of thought shall we?
JD and Lulu both have some knowledge of the weak doc's night action.
Only one of them can be the weak doc.
Therefore, one of them is mafia.
Therefore,

the mafia already know who the weak doc is.

Therefore,

Okay, so the advantage of JDodge's plan over mine,

assuming the scum haven't spotted the weak doc

, is that they can't be certain of which player is actually being targetted, so they can't no kill if it turns out to be scum.

this plan is broken.

That was not the time to criticize Mizzy. Now his stance on using the weak doc as an investigative role is interesting. Just reading it, it appears the he is just concerned that the weak doc has already been discovered, thus breaking the plan. Appears protown. Or you can view it as scum not wanting this plan to occur. Simple as that; scum don't know the weakdoc, and it would be beneficial for them if the town does not follow through with the plan.

Over the past through days, he had really peaked my scumdar. I really dislike his attack on Yos, and it all stems from what appears to be a misunderstanding between jd and lulu. Now if what Elderad says is true about that whole situation, Lulu would have discovered that jd is the doc. Now there were two kills after Gorrad was lynched. If they knew that jd was the weak doc(we discussed this) they would have no killed, thus putting doubt in my mind. This did not happen, thus I can assume it was just a misunderstanding between JD and Lulu.

Overall, through process of elimination, what I have stated, and what others have stated, elderad is at the top of my list. He just seems to be the most likely to be scum, so I will

Vote: Elderad

.

[scotmany12]

He successfully came into the game and lead a lynch on scum Gorrad. If he was scum he could have just as easily went after chaz. Note: Both of them could not have been scum, so it could not have been a simple choice of either/or for yos.

What makes you say that? Because it sounds like you are clearing Porochaz there.

If Yos is scum, chaz cannot be scum. It's not possible since we already know the other two scum were Gorrad and Set. I am not clearing chaz, but I am pretty much clearing Yos. If he was scum, chaz was an easy lynch to push, and frankly, I don't think much fire would have went to him when chaz turned up town (once again, chaz cannot be scum if yos was).

So now I start to try and build a case against Elderad. Looking through Jordan, he avoids Gorrad and Set almost completely. Basically, Jordan didn't do much. I actually had him as the weak doc due to him really staying under the radar. Looking over his posts he avoids both Set and Chaz alot until right before he is replaced.

I already addressed this when Ether mentioned it. Jordan didn't do much of anything. That's why he was replaced. Saying that Jordan avoids Setael and Gorrad is only true because Jordan avoided everyone by simply not posting.
Why have you only brought this up now? Why didn't you mention it at the time? For example, I don't recall you asking the mod to prod Jordan.

Not true. Jordan made one long post early in the game evaluating everyone. I think both Gorrad and Set were neutral to him. He has attacked jd, chaz, and me. He comments on other's posts, but seems to avoid gorrad and set all together until right before he is replaced. Also:

Can we get a prod on bout lulu and jordan?

I did ask for a prod.

I think there is a distinct difference here between what Jordan does and what say me/jd did. Both me and jd were willing to lynch either chaz or Gorrad(jd flipped between the two a couple of times). Jordan, however, wants to save Gorrad for tomorrow. It just does not sit right with me. Scum trying to give the GF at least another night perhaps.

I'm not seeing a distinct difference, to be honest. Mentioning how JD flipped between Porochaz and Gorrad doesn't really reflect on how you behaved. Although you have tried to link yourself to JD here, which is interesting.
Why do you think scum would try to specifically allow the GF to survive, when the cop is dead and we don't have a vig?

I didn't post that I had mentioned some number of times that I would have went for either chaz or gorrad. I was simply using both of us as examples. The role was really irrelevant, I just put it there for added effect. Jordan didn't say he could go for either/or, in fact he didn't mention any suspicion of gorrad until that post. Definitely a difference.

Yes, I disagree with you about Mizzy.

Over the past through days, he had really peaked my scumdar. I really dislike his attack on Yos, and it all stems from what appears to be a misunderstanding between jd and lulu. Now if what Elderad says is true about that whole situation, Lulu would have discovered that jd is the doc. Now there were two kills after Gorrad was lynched. If they knew that jd was the weak doc(we discussed this) they would have no killed, thus putting doubt in my mind. This did not happen, thus I can assume it was just a misunderstanding between JD and Lulu.

This makes no sense.
The scum went after Bookitty, someone who they knew couldn't have been the weak doc. So they chose to kill someone who they *knew* wasn't a weak doc, rather than kill JD who had virtually outed himself.
I don't see how this shows that there was a misunderstanding at all.

We went over this when we were discussing how to use the weak doc and after jd was killed. It would benefit the scum to no kill that night that jd died while protecting set because it instills doubt in the town. Since they didn't do this, they were unaware of who the weak doc was. You make it sound like lulu figured out that jd was the doc. If what you say is true, and lulu is scum, the scum do not kill that night. This did not happen.

[scotmany12]

So what happened to chaz and YS? One of them need to hammer

[scotmany12]

If I felt like I had to respond to anything I would have. The only question you asked me was you attempting to divert attention onto me. How come you have a problem with me saying someone has to hammer but not with ether saying it?

[scotmany12]

I would really like to hear from lulu just to see what she was thinking during her whole interaction with jd.

Good game all. I enjoyed this game quite a lot.