Mini #516: Canyon City - Abandoned

[Spambot]

random vote: Phate

for sounding a little too mean.

It is not random if you give a reason. Why did you call it random?

[Spambot]

The idea of there being all these NPCs is really neat, and it makes me glad I randomly signed up for this game. I'm not sure how much we can figure out about their purpose with the limited information we currently have, but it certainly does give us something to talk about.

[Spambot]

While I can see some benefit, I agree that lynching an npc today is wrong. Depending on what sort of information is revealed tomorrow, it might become worth it, but right now I think we just don't know enough about how they work to make a good decision, given that we can't analyze their behavior or anything. I really doubt that we can tell which ones are scum based on the role name alone.

[Spambot]

So, now that we're all agreed on that, let's turn to the lighter business of choosing one among us to brutally murder.

=]

Bump.

Ok, you go first.

[Spambot]

If I was scum, what possible benefit would I have by making a joke about the scum claiming or by humourously (to me, anyway) trying to spur activity? It seems to me that you're just looking for a wagon to jump onto.

You would be trying too hard to fit in and make jokes, like you're acting relaxed. It does look like you are trying to appear townie right now.

The way you are being so dismissive and adamant about how your actions aren't scummy is enough for me to vote for you. I think it might be a slip that you are SO hard attacking the premise of the argument (that you joking is scummy) and aren't really addressing the conclusion (you are scum). Does everybody see what I mean there? I'm not sure if it's clear. I think he's doing the classic "well, you can't PROVE that I killed her"-guilty-conscience thing. It's not huge, but at this point in the game I haven't seen anything better to go on.

Also, that you were criticizing others for lack of content without going after scum first bothers me. You're showing now that you'll post a lot to defend yourself, but you haven't done anything to look for scum. I think being so self-centered and unhelpful is a decent scum tell.

Vote: Phate

[Spambot]

1. There is no criticism of anyone for anything, much less criticising an anonymous plural "others" for "lack of content." I'm attempting to move from our fairly mutual agreement of the matter of the NPCs to the finding of scum.

2. If you read, the entire point of the post was to revitalise the search for scum. This one's a real stretch.

3. Ummm... yeah. Gonna have to agree on this one. I will post to defend myself from the moment I am accused to to the moment before my lynch, should it come to that. Deal with it.

4. See #2.

5. You're building on a foundation that doesn't exist. What about that post was self-centered?

6. Au contraire. No matter what happens from this point forward, we (or the rest of you, as the case may be) will be able to look back at this page and decide who was genuinely suspicious and who was just trying to get a townie lynched. Considering that all we've done so far is agree a lot about the NPCs, I'd say I've been the most helpful person so far this game.

7. I'm not nearly as experienced as some of you, but I really don't consider my behaviour scummy. Let's see: the main accusations are that I'm trying too hard to act town (which I've addressed) and that I'm trying to spur activity while not actually contributing.

Of those, only the second has merit. It's true; I have been trying to spur activity and my posts to try to accomplish that goal have been otherwise useless (although you have to admit, it HAS spurred activity =P). I apologise for the otherwise-uselessness of the post, but you know what? I don't really regret anything I've said so far (scratch that. I DO regret linking to current games. Other than that, nothing.)

1. You are saying "hay guyz, get teh scum lolz." It is not much of a leap from that to say you are criticizing others for not going after scum enough.

2. No. You are completely missing the point. I can sit back all game and tell people to find scum, that's lazy and unhelpful. You are doing NOTHING YOURSELF to actually find scum. You aren't voting for people here, you aren't attacking anybody. It's the very definition of medium-sized.

3. Again, you miss the point. Obviously people have to defend themselves when they are being attacked. My point was that you are defending yourself really hard without doing anything else. Like, I don't know why you can't be attacking somebody that hard. I can't decide if you misunderstood me or this is a staw-man.

4. Who do you think is scum? Top 3, and why.

5. When did I ever say I was only referring to one particular post? Another possible straw-man. If you're still curious, the reason you're being "self-centered" is my earlier point that you aren't actively hunting for scum at all.

6. Acting scummy and getting attacked for it =\= helpful.

7. Meh.

[Spambot]

Yes, it is. A suggestion to do something =\= a criticism for not having already done it. That simultaneously skews perceptions of the actual message and of my intent. As well imply that your attack of me means that you are completely convinced that I am scum - it might not LOOK like like a huge leap, but when you think about the implications of the difference between positions, it is.

Ok, I'm confused. When you made that post, you clearly didn't think that people were attacking scum enough, otherwise your post would be pointless, no? You suggested that people start hunting for scum, implying that they weren't and also implying that you thought they should be. Do you disagree with this?

No one was posting. Now they are. I had no idea who was scum. Now I have suspicions. The town had nothing to discuss; now they do. In the event that town decides I'm scum, they can look back and see who was curiously reluctant to jump onto the wagon. In the event that town decides I'm town, we can look back and see who was all too eager to jump onto the wagon.

Also, what do you mean by medium-sized?

Ok then, I am going to act ridiculously scummy, but don't lynch me because I'm just trying to generate discussion. Here is my interpretation of what happened.

You: Let's start hunting for scum, guys.
Me: You first.
Others: You are scum.
You: I am defending myself really hard.
Me: If you wanted to start hunting scum, why aren't you doing so?
You: I was just trying to generate discussion. Success!

I think you are trying to look helpful without actually being so.

Seriously, though, I haven't been attacking scum because my opinions on who is scum are still taking shape. And personally, I'd rather deal with the arguments presented against me first, and then, once they're dispatched, move on to cross-examining proponents of faulty logic, than attempt to defend myself while simultaneously doing my best to cast suspicion on someone else. That's probably an overdramatization of your position, but you catch my drift.

Well, this might be more of a style issue and I can kind of buy this. I think being so cautious, especially on day 1, is poor play, but I can see where you're coming from with this.

I've been thinking about that. I'm not really getting a scumvibe from you [Spambot] or Shanba, but Yagami gets a beard-stroke because I'm entertaining the possibility that he's jumping on two relatively innocent posts just to see a townie lynched, and Kabenon gets a WtFoS for blatantly strawmanning my position (I'll respond to that in a moment, btw).

How about you?

See, when you tell me that you are suspicious of these two people, but don't even mention the guy you're voting for, that makes me more convinced that you're scum.

My top three would probably go you, GroinHammer, then anybody not voting right now. The only person I've played with in this game before is Kabenon, so I'm trying to get a feel for everybody else.

Of course it is. It gives the town a chance to analyse the reactions of the other players. Since I've already explained this and you've reverted to your original implication without bothering to enlighten me with the reason for my explanation's invalidity, I'm not even sure why I'm bothering to respond to these questions in detail.

Holy crap, no. Acting scummy isn't a good way to generate discussion. All it does is get you mislynched (if town). Also, are you admitting that you were acting scummy?

That was helpful, alright.

I didn't strongly disagree with any of that part. Also, nice ad hom attack.

[Spambot]

Responding to points of interest, responding to anything else seems to be circular and causing more meaningful discussion to be lost. If you really wanted a response to something else, point it out.

*blinks*

...

Oh. I've still got my first-post randomvote on.

Unvote: theo. Vote: Yagami.

Lol. If forgetting to unvote a random vote I made on my first post isn't scummy, I don't know what is.

You are fighting pretty hard, but I DO think this is a scum tell. I think that 95% of the time, somebody that is sincere about their suspicions will put their vote on that person. That you forgot you had a random vote on somebody makes me think you aren't very sincere about Yagami.

[Spambot]

Well, I think my vote would do the most work on you, however, seeing as how you are at 4, I do not wish to escalate it any further, and my vote was not serving a purpose on theopor.

Also, you say that was my first serious post. Fine. Whatever. But what about people who have yet to make a serious post?

What? Why do you want to vote for him, but not lynch him? That makes no sense.

[Spambot]

I do not wish to put him at -2 where scum could just easily slide in on the wagon and have themselves a quick lynch, for which we gain no information. So, I would rather express my suspicion and not vote. Also, I do not think my suspicion is enough to lynch him, he is just the most suspicious at the moment. But as has been pointed out already, this could be due to the fact that he has posted the most.

Again, what the hell? You think he is scum, but don't want scum to hammer him? Fine, being this wishy-washy is almost as bad as anything he's done, so you've gotten my attention.

Unvote, Vote: Kabenon

[Spambot]

If I voted for him, that would be putting him at -2. That is why -2 specifically. And I guess I meant more in the name part, not the pm itself. Should have clarified that. Besides, no one knows what will happen with these NPC's.

No, you are being ridiculous. Please, please for the love of god give the scum the opportunity to come in and ninja lynch him. That would be fantastic for us, because we've caught two scum being incredibly dumb. Ninja lynching almost NEVER happens. That is an unrealistic fear for you to have, and it doesn't matter whether you think he's scum or the scummiest; you should have your vote on somebody. If you think he's scummy but not too bad, then what are you doing? Play the game and figure some stuff out.

You have now convinced me that you're scum. I think what is really going on is that you didn't want to be seen as bandwagoning on him or were waiting for the opportunity so YOU could ninja lynch him. I imagine that if another person or two had come in and placed those votes, you suddenly would have been very happy to hammer.

You are being very wishy-washy, and I don't buy that you could have no solid opinions about people in this game. That's the kind of crap scum say who don't want to get caught in a contradiction later or commit to a wagon that's going nowhere.