Mini #509: Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers, Game Over!
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Peers Goon
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No, more a warning for him, really. I'm more than willing to give him a second chance, but I don't give thirds.Mirth wrote:
This a warning for the rest of us?Peers wrote:vote: Originality'cause I recently said I'd drop any game if I saw him sign up for it, and I forgot to check the list on this game...
Which, I know, is scummy, because voting for someone regardless of what their role is can hurt the town... but I've yet to see actual logic applied on the first day, so...-
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Peers Goon
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Peers Goon
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In theory, with a majority vote to lynch and the mod using the first, say, three posts on a 15-post page to set up the game, you could have a first-page lynch in a 23-person game. But it would require everyone to be really, really working together for it.UltimaAvalon wrote:Page 1 lynch in a 12 player game? I'm sad now-
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Peers Goon
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Peers Goon
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... don't get me started on jokes that a) aren't funny and b) waste time... I already have one person almost on my always-drop list because of that...Flameaxe wrote:Considering you haven't played with UA before, I'll let the fact that you don't realinze it was a total joke that he does every game slide...-
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Peers Goon
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Peers Goon
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I dunno... a five-person bandwagon (4 not counting the self-voter) in a 12-person game... it's perfectly reasonable for the scum to not be on that bandwagon. The problem is, you get into a WIFOM arguement over if they would or wouldn't avoid it.
The sad thing is, we have very little to go on, and what we do have is based on randomness and bad humor. We either lynch someone totally at random, or don't lynch anyone at all. If we lynch at random, at least there's a chance of hitting a scum... and UA may just be trying to protect himself with that "Oh, I always do this" 'joke'...
Vote: UltimaAvalon-
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Peers Goon
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If a logical lynch were possible, I'd be all for it. But it's not, given that we don't have any information to go on that doesn't stem from someone's attempts to get laughs out of the first day.UltimaAvalon wrote:Yes, there's a chance of hitting scum with a random lynch. Why that means its better than a logical lynch is beyond me.-
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Peers Goon
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Peers Goon
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Unless, of course, nobody received that PM because nobody is a vanilla townie. It'd be a little high-powered for a small game, but this -is- Power Rangers...jmar wrote:It's not true, the mod posted the townie PM in the opening in which Putty Patrollers were described. So we know multiple people (vanilla townies) are Putty Patrollers.-
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Peers Goon
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Peers Goon
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Mirth wrote:First, I don't think what Peers has said is necessarily indicitive of a power role or a scum tell. I don't like post 155 though because retroactively justifying statements like that makes me edgy.
Because in the first place, I said one thing, and people implied something compeltely different -- I've given up trying to predict what I need to say in the first place or what needs to be justified.jmar wrote:I agree with Mirth- Peers, if that's what you meant by that statement, why didn't you say that in the first place?-
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Peers Goon
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Peers Goon
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Peers Goon
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Ah, but you admit IMirth wrote:
I'm curious because your not being attacked particularly strongly.Peers wrote:
... because I'm being attacked? Pretty much the only time to get defensive, really, when you think about it.Mirth wrote:Peers, why are you being defensive now?ambeing attacked. So my putting up a defense to these attacks should not seem strange to you.-
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Peers Goon
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Peers Goon
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Peers Goon
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In no particular order, 'cause none of these are strong enough for me to make/keep a vote on them right now:
Ultima, for a general scum feel, although it's going away as time goes on.
Originality, for the vote-unvote-two-posts-later thing. That feels bad. His playstyle also feels different than the last game I was in with him; wither he's not town in this one, or he's just wised up, I don't know.
jmar, because despite my saying otherwise, I didn't backtrack on anything. I said, hypotheticly, maybe nobody got the Putty Patroller message. I never said I didn't. Using false logic to reach assumptions isn't a scumtell, it may just be a stupidtell... and I'm trying not to look at it differently just because it involves me.-
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Peers Goon
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It wasn't obviously a joke. I didn't know that; it's not hard to believe people who'd never played with UA or any of the others involved would think that way, too.Blight wrote:Mirth is another possibility. UA's BW was obviously a joke, but the fact that she was seriously opposing it could be her trying real hard to look like town. Maybe she thought that everyone would really lynch UA and then she'd have some credibility by being the only one to oppose it. I just saw this in another game with UA. But...again...I don't know. I'm kind of in between with her too. I see her as pro-town, but then she keeps bringing up the UA BW like it was more than just a joke to get things started.-
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Peers Goon
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Flameaxe wrote:Peers wrote:unvote: Flameaxe
I guess he won me over with his "You're stupid!" defense.
vote: UltimaAvalon
I guess I'm an enabler.
Killerbob: Your lurking isn't helping the town at all, stop it, or I will bring out the paddle.Unovte
Vote: Flameaxe
Reason: The above quote was made by Unright, not me. He put my name on it... why? To try to rally suspicion around me? Don't know. But he's trying to put words in my mouth, and I don't like that.-
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Peers Goon
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Note that I did not vote for UA until post 89 (or so), after I was aware it was some sort of joke bandwagon, and I gave as my reason for voting the fact that such jokes are not helpful to the town.Blight wrote:Unvote, Vote: Peers
The fact that you voted for UA unaware that it was a wagon that shouldn't have been taken seriously scares me.
I think you need to take another look at the comments from those who voted for him. There was no serious arguement against UA, which should tell you that it was a wagon that wasn't all that serious, especially since it's the first few pages of the game.-
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Peers Goon
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True, I do not have an avatar.Flameaxe wrote:
I mistook you two, nothing more, nothing less. (neither of you have avatars, fix it, and that doesn't happen anymore.)Peers wrote:Flameaxe wrote:Peers wrote:unvote: Flameaxe
I guess he won me over with his "You're stupid!" defense.
vote: UltimaAvalon
I guess I'm an enabler.
Killerbob: Your lurking isn't helping the town at all, stop it, or I will bring out the paddle.Unovte
Vote: Flameaxe
Reason: The above quote was made by Unright, not me. He put my name on it... why? To try to rally suspicion around me? Don't know. But he's trying to put words in my mouth, and I don't like that.
I think that's a stupid reason for a vote, honestly. Almost seems like scum voting over something stupid, to me.
Unright, however, does.
Once again, you're using untruths to try and make me look like scum. And again I ask... why? If I were really scum, and you were really town, you wouldn't need lies to try and frame someone.-
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Peers Goon
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Posts 248 (where I actually made the vote) and post 251 for added incentive for me to keep it there.Mirth wrote:Peers, could you please explain your vote on Flameaxe right now?
Because 'jokes' like that hurt the town -- the best solution is to get rid of the person behind the joke and hope he realizes it's a problem so they won't do it the next game. Since UA was behind the jokewagon, he got the vote.Mirth wrote:So...why jump on?
Which, yeah, ironically means I had to join the joke to get rid of him...
You get a very sad Peers. That's pretty much it.dybeck wrote:This game is slow slow slow. What happens if I unvote, vote: Peers?
You may be true. But covering up for it with another lie? What happened to Lynch All Liars?UltimaAvalon wrote:ATTENTION: Misquoting is NOT a Scumtell. I repeat. Messing up the quote tags IS NOT a scumtell-
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Peers Goon
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.... wow. Given how I'd heard it talked about here and elsewhere, I figured it was pretty much a hard-and-fast rule people go by.Cogito Ergo Scum wrote:
Lynch all Liars is a way to prevent people from gambiting in the future, pretty much in the same way you wanted to lynch Avalon to get rid of the jokewagon. However, these LAL lynches often result in mislynches, and LAL is by no means a viable strategy.Peers wrote:What happened to Lynch All Liars?
unvote
Now I'm confused as all heck.-
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Peers Goon
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In my personal experience, making statements like that gets other people to vote for you because you're backtracking.Flameaxe wrote:Yes, I know. I wasn't meaning to lie here, but hell, it happened anyway. Sometimes my brain just gets jumbled up, and I happened to get more people mixed up than I should be. I honestly have no clue how I mixed up the quotes in the first post. I fucked up, yes, I did.-
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Peers Goon
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Peers Goon
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Peers Goon
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Really? Where. Please give us an example of me twisting words around to try and make people look scummy.UltimaAvalon wrote:Actually, I don't know a thing about Flameaxe's playstyle. I only see him in Scumchat, and things like that dont exist there
and by 'both of you' do you include yourself? Cus you've been doing it all game, pal.Peers wrote:We all know you like to twist words around to try and make people look scummy. And by 'you', I mean 'both of you'
I prefer to use un-twisted words to show scuminess. Twisting them only throws chaff into people's scumdar. But then, you know that.-
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Peers Goon
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He's not voting for you based on membership in Team Asshat. He's voting for you based on that fact that you are, in fact, a total asshat.
And he's not the only one.
Vote: Flameaxe
Either you're scum, or you're a poor town player who distracts the rest of us from finding scum. Either way, you need to go.-
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Peers Goon
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To be fair, this most recent one was not wagon-jumping, it was realizing my previous unvoting of Flameaxe was a mistake.Mirth wrote:Peers, give me a good reason why not to vote you right now, please. Because I'm not sure how much longer the already sizable wagon on you will continue to deter me.
This is the third time you've wagon jumped. For very poor reasons. Yes, Flameaxe is obnoxious. Being obnoxious is not a scumtell.
You're right. Being obnoxious is not a scumtell. However, when that obnoxiousness is so strong that it becomes the focal point of the game, then either a) the obnoxious person is scum, or b) the obnoxious person is town and working to help the scum by being so obnoxious.
The goal of the game is to win. Town cannot hunt scum is someone is being so obnoxious they throw everyone else's scumdar off.-
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Peers Goon
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Doesn't matter if -you- can. It matters if the -town- can.Flameaxe wrote:Prove that my being obnoxious hinders the town. I can be obnoxious and still scumhunt just fine.
You can be the best soldier in the world -- a crack shot, can march 400 miles a day with no food and water, master five martial arts and be able to plan a jailbreak of POWs with the contents of a metrosexual's glove compartment -- and if you start being obnoxious during a mission, distracting people from their jobs, allowing the other side to get an advantage, then your own side is perfectly justified in shooting your ass so you don't get the rest of them killed.
Well, I don't have a gun, just a vote. And I've used it. You're screwing over the town with your actions. It needs to stop.-
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Peers Goon
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The above quote is from your post 303. Your 'last post' was post 298. In it, you ask exactly one thing.Flameaxe wrote:You still need to answer my last post's many answers also.
I have already answered this question. It doesn't. You may very well be town. However, if you are, you're the worst kind of town, one that pretty much ensures the game will be a scum victory. And therefor, you need to go.Please then, explain to me this: How does me being a 'total asshat' = scum?
So, tell me, what's next on your agenda now that you can't attack me for not answering your 'many questions' that I've been so amazingly good at ignoring by answering them already in posts 302/306/this one?-
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Amazingly enough, the reason you're bad town to me is that you attack with flimsy reasons. Go fig.Flameaxe wrote:How am I bad town to you? I feel like I'm huntin' dem scumz just fine, I'm sorry if I don't do it the same way you do: attacking with flimsy reasons.
And now my new big scumtell is that... I don't care if you're town or scum? Wow.
Now, I'll agree with you, to a point. Wanting all the townies dead? Scumtell. Wanting lots of townies dead? Scumtell. Wanting one particular townie dead so he can't screw over the town and the rest of us can get the scum? Not a scumtell.
I'm fairly confident that if you don't get lynched today or tomorrow, the game will end in a scum victory, whether you're scum or not. And that, my friend, is why I don't care if you're scum or town... I know that your survival means the town loses.-
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The goal of the town is not to lynch mafia. The goal of the town is to win.UltimaAvalon wrote:PEERS!
If you're so concerned about your ability to scumhunt, why are you willing to admit Flameaxe is town, but still convinced he needs to die. I see you turn IC in a few days, but you've obviously missed a very important lesson about what Town is supposed to do in Mafia. Town is supposed to LYNCH MAFIA! If there's someone who is townie yet obstructive, you don't waste a lynch. YOU IGNORE HIM!
Most of the time, yes, the best way to do this is to lynch mafia. But there are cases (say, a goon who is siblings with a town power-role, or some situations involving SKs, or those involving town players who are acting like scum players) where it's best to lynch someone else. They are rare, but they exist, and we have one here.
And yet, going after you for something I find to be scummy (note: In this case 'scummy' does not mean 'is scum' but means 'will make scum win') is a bad reason for me to vote for you? Double standards only apply if the two people are different factions.FlamingAxe wrote:Just because I'm going after you for something I find to be scummy, doesn't mean I'm here to screw over the town.
I'm town. Which means you are... what, again?-
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Peers Goon
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... you're not even bothering to read my posts, are you? You're just skimming them.
Let me spell it out for you slowly, like I would for a small child.
The town wants to win.
The town wins when the bad guys are gone.
Bad guys are a) mafia, b) SKs, c) people who are so damn retarded they do stupid stuff that prevents a) and b) from being lynched.
Now, if you want to lynch a mafia, but a townie is making it so you can't... you get rid of that townie. Then you can get rid of the mafia instead of banging your head into their brick wall.
At this point, everyone in this game has a choice to make: Lynch one of you, and remove part of the brick wall; Lynch me, because I let myself get dragged down to your level and look just as bad as you; or lynch someone else... which will be difficult because of the animosity going on here, but if it happens, more power to 'em.
The difference is, if you're lynched, I can focus on helping my fellow townies find the scum. If I'm lynched, you'll just keep being an asshat to Unright, and then pick a new target after him.-
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Peers Goon
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.... okay, first, don't feed me lines like that. You overwhelm me with the number of possible ways to make fun of you 'not getting some' that, while funny enough to share, have no place in this game.Flameaxe wrote:Referring to us as a 'brick wall' was though.
ps. still havent proved anything...I'm gonna keep saying it till I get some.
Secondly... are you saying we're not a brick wall? Do you honestly think anything could happen to get you to change your vote away from me, or for me to change my vote away from you? That's pretty much the definition of the brick wall, and anyone in this game can already see it.-
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Peers Goon
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Do you honestly think it's possible for anyone to ignore you?UltimaAvalon wrote:Now, if you want to lynch mafia, but a townie is making it so you can't...YOU IGNORE THAT TOWNIE! Then you can focus on the mafia instead of watching the Town to Scum ratio falling.
Now who's leading?UltimaAvalon wrote:At this point, everyone has a choice to make. lynch you or Unright, due to your inability to ACTUALLY BUILD A CASE BASED ON SOLID EVIDENCE; bring themselves down to your level and lynch UA or BBM, and look just as retarded as you; or lynch someone else, which they wont, because no one else has done anything, and if they have, its been lost because of this pointless argument you've dragged us all into.
... and who mentioned lynching BBM? I didn't.
Now, see, I was trying to stay away from the personal attacks, but y'know, whatever floats your boat.UltimaAvalon wrote:The difference is, if you're lynched, the games average IQ will rise, and the game just might be enjoyable. There will also be less scum. If I'm lynched, you're down one less townie. If BBM is lynched, I'm going to cry, because there is no case against him.
If I'm lynched, then the town loses a member, no matter what you may believe. But that's okay; I think you're scum, too.
And now that I think of it... who the heck is BBM?-
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Peers Goon
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*shrug* I'm town. Specificly, a Putty. Some of you will believe that, some of you won't, you'll find out in two more votes I guess.Mirth wrote:Peers, could you please try to make some sense, please?
I'm pretty sure this puts you at L-2 Peers. So please, explain yourself. Without advocating town lynches please.
Yes, this is a closed setup. Yes, a mislynch could put us in a bad place. But I'd rather be in a bad place able to focus than be in an okay place with a rather large distraction protecting the scum. The hell you chose over the hell that's forced onto you.
Mathmaticly, yes, lynching town is evilbadwrong and should never be done. Mafia is not simply a logical game you can play by math. You need to use your emotions, your gut, etc. Otherwise, there would be no reason for multiple people to be so upset wiht me that they begin doing the all-caps thing for multiple posts.
I hit a button somewhere. I'm fairly sure now it's a scum button. But I can't prove it on my lonesome.-
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Peers Goon
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Nope. The first statement as done as a response to someone's post about how many power roles / mafia they thought we could expect in this game. The second is truth.jmar wrote:Peers wrote: Unless, of course, nobody received that PM because nobody is a vanilla townie. It'd be a little high-powered for a small game, but this -is- Power Rangers...
Contradict yourself much?Peers wrote: *shrug* I'm town. Specificly, a Putty. Some of you will believe that, some of you won't, you'll find out in two more votes I guess.-
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... I never lied to the town. Hell, I'm the one who brought up the Lynch All Liars theory -- if I lied, I'd be happy to accept your vote. But I haven't lied.dybeck wrote:unvotefor now.
Peers lied to the town, and that grates REALLY badly with me. I've already stated my opinion about liars. But my gut tells me he might just be awful. Let me think.-
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Peers Goon
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Unless, of course, unvotes don't count when they're in quotes. In which case, I'm gone.UltimaAvalon wrote:
jmar was right. I unvoted. Peers is at 5 and L-2Cogito Ergo Scum wrote:
Your votecount is incorrect. Peers is currently being voted by UA, Blight, Flameaxe, Mirth, Originality and you. That's 6, and Lynch -1.jmar wrote:If my vote count is correct, that's 5 on him, but mod, can we get a vote count please?-
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Peers Goon
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Peers Goon
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Hold up, hold up... Originality's only post lately has been about the whole "lynch townies who help scum" arguement I started...jmar wrote:I did think Peers' statement was hypothetical, because I didn't read it closely enough. Originality explained it to me- his theory makes no sense unless he had a power role.
... so when did he explain it to you? And perhaps more importantly... where?-
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Peers Goon
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Peers Goon
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How does "I claim Putty" contradict "I reserve the right to claim Putty at a later date"? We've been over the whole "Yes, taken at face value, it sounds like I have a power role, but it was said as a hypothetical" arguement already. That was -so- last week, man.jmar wrote:
You just claimed Putty! Which contradicts what you earlier said! That's why I'm acting on it.Peers wrote:
Christ, man, that was two weeks ago! It took you this long to decide to act on it?jmar wrote:@ Peers: Posts 133-135.-
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It's kinda hard to defend the truth when you've already said it... it's not like there's something more truthful than the truth you can use to back yourself up.
Between the two posts Flameaxe so helpfully quoted was a debate over if I meant that hypothetically or not. I said that I had, and that I reserved the right to claim Putty in the future. Well, I claimed Putty. I told people back then I was going to -- why is my following through on my word scummy? If I claimed anything else, it would be a lie, and I don't lie.
... well, in-game, at least.
If you want a defense of the "maybe we're all power roles" thing, you know which days you need to re-read. My defense hasn't changed. It was a backfired attempt at causing paranoia among the Mafia. I've said as much, I've apologized, anyone who has a problem with that still... well, they're on my scumdar, but it probably won't matter who I think is scummy at this rate.-
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Peers Goon
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I never said I wasn't suspicious. I know I am. But after the huge blow-up between me, FlameAxe, and UltimaAvalon... the word 'Unvote' was used. Why? Because I said I was town, they said they were town, and the odd thing... we believed each other despite how much we pissed each other off and everything else we might consider evidence to the contrary.Mirth wrote:"Backfired attempt at casusing paranoia among Mafia" sounds like you're ascribing meaning to an event post hoc. Who do you think is suspicious? Because you've been making me uncomfortable with your actions for a while now, and I'd like to get as far inside your head as possible short of imitating Ed Gein.
Think about it. What -possible- reason could I have for saying "Maybe we all have power roles" other than trying to put that suggestion into the Mafia's head? Most people think that I was outing myself as a power role, but they seem to think it was unintentional. I say I was trying to confuse the Mafia. And there's the outside chance that I'm Mafia trying to screw up the players mindless of the fact it would draw attention to myself, in which case, wow, that worked wonders, huh? (Come to think of it, it worked 'wonders' no matter what my intentions about it were...)
Mirth, you've already got your vote on me. If all I've done is make you uncomfortable, then isn't a vote a bit strong? Aren't you already inside my head, and you think it's scummy? Because if not...-
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Peers Goon
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If they don't, then I died because jmar's vote would be a hammer, I believe.killerbob wrote:
I must have missed that one...oh. You mean post 350? Do votes in quotes count? I didn't see an unvote before that. If it did count then The VC would look like this...Flameaxe wrote:Bob: I think UA unvoted too.
... which seems a good enough reason for me to do this.
Vote: jmar
Reason: You tried to hammer me! And might've succeeded!-
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Peers Goon
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It was more like saying "I can't encourage you to unvote, and I just want to make sure you realize I feel nothing I do can make you unvote." Making sure we're both on the same page, as it were.Mirth wrote:I do not understand your motivation for posting this. If it is to encourage me to unvote, it has failed.
... okay, I failed to think about that possibility. But let's face it... we're all here to play. While some of us might be asshats (and given how I've been acting, I count myself in that number), none of us want to totally ruin the game. Myself included. If I wanted to break games and annoying people, I'd go hack Halo 3 games or something.Other possible reason? Townie trying to break the game by having those of the non-putty sort among us speculate over the possibility of a non-vanilla game. I don't find your original statement damning in the least, but I don't like your explanation for your current claim.
As for not liking my explanation for my current claim... if you don't like "It's the truth", well, you won't be happy until I'm dead and the truth is proven. Unfortunately, I'm not willing to off myself to prove it.-
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Peers Goon
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Ah. I missed an unvote in there somewhere.Mirth wrote:Actually, Jmar wouldn't have killed you. When originality put you at L-1, dybeck unvoted. You're still alive regardless of whether Avalon's unvote counts or not.
In which case, that was an OMGUS vote on jmar, 'cause of the two people voting for me, I like him least.-
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Peers Goon
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dybeck wrote:Unright still deserves closer scrutiny, but for today,vote: Peers.
Lynch all Liars vote.
*sigh* Once more, I didn't lie.Cogito Ergo Scum wrote:
Lynch all Liars is a way to prevent people from gambiting in the future, pretty much in the same way you wanted to lynch Avalon to get rid of the jokewagon. However, these LAL lynches often result in mislynches, and LAL is by no means a viable strategy.Peers wrote:What happened to Lynch All Liars?
We get into WIFOM territory there, then. Why would I -want- to say "Oh, but it makes sense if I'm Mafia", especially when my defense is that I'm town? And if I was scum trying to confuse the town... boy, that plan worked me right up to L-1 and might very well get me there again and further, huh?jmar wrote:You say "what possible reason could I have for saying what you did..." then say you were trying to confuse the Mafia. That's assuming your town. For all I know, you're scum, in which case wouldn't it be completely plausible to say you were trying to confuse the town? Your logic makes no sense.-
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Peers Goon
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The only way there could be a dybeck-Peers connection is if he's town and fell under the "Peers is scum" spell that pervaded the thread for a while.
If there was a scum-partnership between us, then he took a heck of a risk voting for me back when I was in L-2/L-1 territory. How many games are there where scum bus other scum on day one?
... that's not a rhetorical question, BTW. An answer would be nice...-
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Peers Goon
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Peers Goon
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For the same reason you're better off not voting for a third-party candidate in the American Presidential Elections. You have no chance of success, your vote is mainly to say "I support voting for this guy in the future, where I hope there will be more support for him, and eventually we can get him in."Mirth wrote:
Why do you say so? Also even if there is no no apparent chance to lynch someone else, if one believes that someone else is a better target for lynching, why not try anyway?Peers wrote:and there's no chance of being able to lynch anyone else.
Right now, unless there's a huge swing towards someone else, either jmar or myself is being lynched. I don't think this town is stupid enough to do a day-one no-lynch, and there isn't enough evidence or arguments for the town to go after anyone else... at least, not to the point of getting enough votes. A third candidate for lynching will only take votes away from the other two, and most likely cause a no-lynch.
I'm not saying "Don't vote for someone else". I'm just saying, unless you really think you have a strong enough argument to get people to unvote from jmar and me, it's not going to do the town any good. Personally? i'd love to hear a good case that gets people to unvote from me, but it's day one... I don't think there's enough action out there to make such a case. If someone can prove me wrong, please do.-
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Peers Goon
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Peers Goon
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Peers Goon
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Best I can find without rereading the whole thread is in post 357 he seems to take offense to your voting for me over the whole "theoretical power role" thing. So it looks like the bandwagon against you may be due to a playstyle difference more than anything else due to the lack of anyone actually doing anything yet.jmar wrote:Still waiting for my question to be answered, but thank you, PlaysWithSquirrels, for your continuing lack of adding anything valuable to this game.-
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Peers Goon
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