Mini 496 - Wild West Mafia. Mod Abandoned

[Gorgon]

Just wanted to say hi. I'm rather busy at the mo, but I'll skim over the thread now and then post my thoughts at some point, sooner than later.

[Gorgon]

Okay, I've finished the skim, and I don't think pdcakes is the lynch. Just wanted to make that clear. More to come later. Now, to bed.

[Gorgon]

Okay, I've finished the skim, and I don't think pdcakes is the lynch. Just wanted to make that clear. More to come later. Now, to bed.

Than who's the candidate and why?

I'm not entirely sure who to pick. I just know that pdcakes looks town to me, his initial behaviour aside. He has redeemed himself in his last few posts, and has brought up some interesting points. It's more a gut feeling than anything; pdcakes just seems 'genuine' to me. He got picked on for a 'mistake' that got blown out of proportion, but other than that, I have little on him. I don't like 'obvious' and noncontroversial lynches on Day 1, like he would probably be - they are too easy for scum to latch onto. Although there is little time left, I believe there is room to look elsewhere. If pdcakes get lynched today, I won't have anything to do with it.

I'm sure I could elaborate further if you want me to, but I'm seeing you, kabenon007, and Paradoxombie as possible scum candidates.

You, because you seem lurkish, although there could be other explanations for this other than you being scum. You do seem quite confident, too. You're certainly not at the top of my list, although you are on it.

kabenon007, because he seems lurkish as well, and also I believe his attacks on people so far (pdcakes, then you, then Paradoxombie) seem weak and might well be disingenuine and opportunistic (and thus scummy).

Paradoxombie, because, well, he gives me a bad vibe overall. I found it pretty weird that he should have FoS'd Twomz for suggesting no lynch, then upgraded it to a HoS because he didn't get bandwagoned! It might easily be seen as trying to get anything to stick to Twomz. He's gone downhill since then; IMO. His argument with Thin_Man (Whom I see as quite town so far) is also not winning him any favours.

Aimee needs to voice her suspicions, btw. She seems pretty non-committal so far.

[Gorgon]

Ah, yes, and in light of the above ...

Unvote

Vote: Paradoxombie

[Gorgon]

There are still people who are not voting. They need to make up their minds soon. I do not support a no lynch; it needs to be avoided at all costs.

[Gorgon]

I see nothing odd with Twomz's rhetoric. I agree with most of it. Lynching a lurker or someone who is useless to the town is certainly better than lynching an obviously protown player who seems to be doing his best, although it's not as good as lynching scum, obv. Come endgame, the town needs active players who are willing to make an effort out of finding scum. I fail to see what's hard to understand about this. His stance towards no lynch is based on the circumstances, as he has already explained. I almost agree with this, but I think there might still be a chance to come to a concensus over a lynch ... but lynching someone with only 3 - 4 votes is certainly not ideal.

[Gorgon]

Well could you actually take a stance, or be more clear? A little too much ambiguity in your statement for my taste. Do you or do you not think a No lynch is better than lynching a player who, at deadline, has a majority, but only half or less total needed? Also why do you feel that way(logic, please)? And you said you almost agree, so I assume some part you disagree with?

Well, it depends on the player and how scummy I personally find him to be. For instance, I'm starting to feel that although I am voting for you, I'm going to have some serious doubts about lynching you if more people won't get behind your lynch. I really don't think you're

that

scummy.

[Gorgon]

Aimee, what do you think of Para? Really ...

You need to provide evidence that Twomz is more scummy than Para, for chrissakes.

[Gorgon]

ryan, the deadline is looming. There is no way you'll be able to get a bandwagon going on Aimee before the deadline. She will be looked at tomorrow, but right now the choice is between Twomz and Para ... there are no other options at this point. You said before that you would choose Para over Twomz; the time to act on this is

now

.

[Gorgon]

Now I'm thoroughly perplexed. Looks like it's Para or Aimee now. I don't think the case against Aimee is solid enough. She lurked, and then she posted a crappy analysis, voting for Twomz, and tying. Sure, looks scummy, but I feel it's risky to lynch her over this.

[Gorgon]

I agree with most Aimee's post, I dont think she was being a hypocrite, and her absence has been explained...this is a crap idea..who started this?..Ryan?..

Twomz and Thin_Man have her votes on her now, but ryan was the first to mention lynching her.

[Gorgon]

Well, I hope you're right, because if Aimee's town I'm coming after you tomorrow, ryan.

[Gorgon]

The way in which CKD is talking about the note that referanced him seems off to me.

Explain please.

well, do you feel that the note

(adam's)

could be correct?...if so, what do you think "wary" means?

What do you mean by calling it Adam's note?

Between Para, Thin Man and Simenon, I believe Simenon's statement of "Not believing Aimee is scum but STILL voting" is the scummiest.

But what do you think of those three

in general

? You can't just focus on this one thing ... can you?

@SirWario - Do you have any thoughts other than your opinion as to what "Be wary" means?

[Gorgon]

Yeah ckd ... figured as much. Just wanted to make sure.

I don't know what to make of these notes. One is unambiguous, the other is not. I'm also trying to figure out the nature of the role that's posting them. Is it allowed to say anything about a certain player? Does it have any other powers than to post notes? What's it basing the content of the notes on? Why does it say Adam is scum, but only tells us to "Be wary" of ckd?

I'm inclined to believe it's a scum role that's there to distract.

[Gorgon]

And i agree with wario about paradox. I believe every townie alive is important no matter what the situation is and para's willingness to have himself lynched instead of twomz, (who his vote was on) is really really suspicious in my eyes. And in the end he casted the tiebreaking(and in the end condemning vote on aimee).

Wait whut?

You're saying because Para wanted to get himself lynched over Twomz, that makes him scummy? I don't get it.

I agree with the last part though. Anyone who went for the Aimee wagon is suspect in my eyes.

ryan is actually looking better than he did yesterday so far, though ... need to reread the day to form better opinions though.

[Gorgon]

Okay, that actually makes sense. The way pdcakes phrased it, it looked like he was saying that because Para cared more for Twomz's life than his own, that made him scummy. I can see it as a move to appear townish though.

I was suspicious of Para yesterday, and it looks like he's a good candidate today as well.

Vote: Paradoxombie

That's three votes, with six to lynch, right? I recommend no further votes on him till he shows his face.

[Gorgon]

I buy ckd's claim 100%, but wish he would have waited. Oh well.

I think we need to hear from Simeon right about now.

[Gorgon]

SirWario, ckd wasn't under that much pressure, really. And do you think vig is a safe claim to make at this point? I believe it's not. Not at all.

Also, what basis did you have for suspecting him when you posted the note about him?

[Gorgon]

This one?

I want to know how any of those who thought the note could be credible thought about the balance of such a role.

Doesn't apply to me ... but I'm happy to repost it for the benefit of those whom it does apply to.

[Gorgon]

I am 99% sure the mafia can not roleblock..or if they can, they get one shot to do it.

Why?

[Gorgon]

Para's actually making a lot of sense here. First he was tied with Twomz while voting for Twomz, so the only way for him personally to prevent a no lynch was to unvote. Then, he was tied with Aimee while not voting for her, so the only way for him personally to prevent a no lynch was to vote her.

Unvote

while I get my bearings.

[Gorgon]

GOW is bugging me a lot. Can't quite put my finger on it, though .... but I didn't like his vote on Twomz, and I don't like the way he's going after ckd now. His style is also confusing in general, like he's trying a bit too hard to be seen as insightful. Also, he likes to go after people for lame and 'easy' reasons. (pdcakes for suggesting Adam be lynched, Twomz for suggesting no lynch as a possibility, ckd for asking people about the "Be wary" note).

Also, I don't like this at all:

About this whole collective check-in scumlist thing, I suggested this in the first game I ever played and a tidal wave of response showed me how scummy that suggestion is, mainly for the reasons that Adele posted. This idea forces everyone to make a clear post of who they feel may be scum, and people's hypothetical intentions can be easily turned against them later. It gives the scum concrete evidence to quote and mislead.

I categorically disagree with this. Town should

always

post any thoughts they have, sooner or later. So friggin' what if your suspicions change later in the game? 'Concrete evidence to quote an mislead' my a** ... you might as well not post anything at all if you're worried about scum using your words against you. Townies should hunt scum, period. All other concerns are secondary.

Guess I did put my finger on it ...

Vote: GodOfWine

[Gorgon]

Well, I've been waiting for others to respond to GOW's reaction to my vote, but I'm getting bored now.

Honestly, I'm not sure GOW is scum, or whether his reaction is such an overreaction. The only thing I take issue with is him calling me a moron, which is unwarranted. I kind of see where he's coming from, but I still disagree that listing suspicions is something that one should avoid, because it could be used against you later. In general, anything you say can and will be used against you in this game, but if you're town you shouldn't have to fear this, as you should always have rational explanations for everything you say. If someone comes later in the game and points to some suspicions that you had earlier, it should be simple enough to point out that those suspicions were warranted at the time.

I also admit that the words 'lame and easy' were perhaps not the best ones to use. What I was getting at is that GOW has a pattern of going for what I see as an easy kill, instead of probing deeper. Now, I'm not saying he's bad at this game or lacks intelligence - far from it. It's just that I can easily see this as scummy behaviour - jumping on people for obvious mistakes without delving deeper into the game ... but I concede that it doesn't really prove anything on its own.

With regards to my avatar, I found it through googling "Gorgon" - I think it's an ancient Greek painting, so it's highly 'cultural', although I'm not sure how tasteful it is, come to think of it. I sure have seen uglier avatars, though.

At this point I'd like to hear more from people who haven't posted in a while, especially Simeon ... I feel that Simeon's vote on GOW was slightly rash and opportunistic, and would like a better explanation for his vote, and why he thinks GOW is likely scum.

[Gorgon]

1. I'm not entirely sure. Perhaps GOW, although I'd really like to see more from him. He hasn't posted on the site for a week now, which is cause for concern.

2. ckd, SirWario, pdcakes, Simeon to a lesser extent.

3. GOW, Para, ryan.

P.S. I have a pretty strong suspicion that it's very likely that one of Simeon/ryan is scum, more likely ryan.

[Gorgon]

Yeah, extending the deadline would be good, especially with GOW absent. Which reminds me ...

Mod, could you poke GOW with a big stick please?

[Gorgon]

The way he attacks simenon looks quite a bit like scum trying to take a townie out with them.

How so? Please elaborate.

And it's not like we wouldn't have realized what "be wary" meant if he had died and been confirmed vig, it's not like he had to worry about us losing the info that Simenon was scum.

Which is better from ckd's point of view, assuming his claim is true? Lynching Simeon (whom he had some reason to believe was scum, based on the fact that "be wary" seemed to somehow fit a vig role) today, or waiting for some unkown point in the future for his own death (which might not happen before the end of the game, btw) for others to have the same thought?

This however is a good point, although I really don't like the way it reeks of hyperbole (you're not throwing this out as a theory; you're stating it as fact):

Ckd claimed as soon as the tiniest bit of suspicion was on him, in order to get another player killed, when he could've easily not claimed and taken care of the killing himself if his claim is true.

Your answer to this, ckd?

[Gorgon]

Yeah Ninth, still with us?

Also, where the heck is Thin_Man?

[Gorgon]

Yeah kabenon ... there are a few pretty protown things about Para, especially the way he behaved around the deadline, and at times he has been proactive and asking questions of people ... but on the whole there are more troubling things about him, IMO.

[Gorgon]

Well, to be honest, kabenon doesn't concern me that much at the moment. I saw him as pretty non-commital throughout day 1, but on day 2 he has been very active pushing against Simeon. I find Simeon increasingly hard to read, and would really like to see more from him than just reactions to others' attacks on him.

I also liked that kabenon was quick to accept ckd's claim and to acknowledge that it was an easily testable claim.

[Gorgon]

gorgon: is your vote on the ninth layer left over from a vote for GoW?...or did i completely miss something.

Yeah, it is. I see no particular reason to switch my vote at the moment, though. Ninth has yet to contribute to this game.

Gorgon Wrote:

Yeah kabenon ... there are a few pretty protown things about Para, especially the way he behaved around the deadline, and at times he has been proactive and asking questions of people ... but on the whole there are more troubling things about him, IMO.

I still think his play towards the deadline was a way to come off pro town. He was on the chopping block so he had to do something. That unvote of twomz still really bothers me.

A perfectly valid viewpoint and possibly quite true.

[Gorgon]

Meta time ...

I'm eerily reminded of my last game with ckd and his argument with a certain Battle Mage. They were both town and ckd was a claimed mason. Day 2, ckd ended up getting lynched, but in the end it was two townies (Battle Mage and ChronX) who pushed the lynch the hardest. Two scum then just jumped onto it; including me (sweet sweet hammer).

I'm just saying this to remind ckd how arguments like the one that's going on now can be destructive if they're between two townies.

That said, I don't feel that Para gave very convincing reasons for wanting to lynch ckd. Part of me still feels that it could have been just genuine townie bad thinking, though ... it's certainly a possibility.

Para, now that ckd is obviously no longer a suspect, who do you find scummy? Btw, I liked your 869.

[Gorgon]

So I get this straight Gorgon, do you feel it would have been a good idea to lynch a claimed vig, versus letting him prove himself that night?

Absolutely not. Also, as I said, I feel that his stated reasons were unconvincing. However, wanting to do so this is not guaranteed proof of someone being scum, although it's certainly quite

scummy

. I do admit there are further scummy things about Para though.

[Gorgon]

Which could point to the possibility of him being scum and not reading the thread.

Why is not reading the thread scummy?

[Gorgon]

I get your point. I can concede that it's conceivable that scum tend to be less asorbed in the details of the game than town.

[Gorgon]

Well, the deadline's been extended until November 1, but I'm still dismayed over the lack of activity from most of the people in this game.

[Gorgon]

Welcome back to the game, Twomz. With regards to your query, I guess I could do a summary of the cases against those three people, but I don't have time right now. Also, can you not just read for yourself and form your own opinions?

I realise that I've been calling Simenon Simeon throughout this game. Apologies. Btw, you're still being overly defensive, IMO. What are your thoughts on things that have been happening in this game other than kabenon attacking you? It's also very interesting to note that you took a line of thought that wasn't even directed against you (that scum are more likely to not pay attention), and decided to respond as if it were part of an attack on you.

[Gorgon]

Fair enough. I kinda agree with you.

The Para wagon has the most momentum, but I have a few reservations. It's based, for instance, on the way Para went after ckd, the claimed vig. I agree with a lot of the points that have been made, but there's a nagging doubt in my mind that Para is actually town. I would be willing to vote for him at deadline, though, as I feel we could do worse than to lynch him.

kabenon; it's been mostly Simenon who's been going after him, in exchange for kabenon going after Simenon. I'm not quite sure what the case for lynching each of them is. The whole Simenon attack started because of his Aimee vote, which he has explained ... but he hasn't contributed much that's worthwhile since then.

ryan; Para's been going after him, mostly for his posts on day 1 it seems. I agree that there were some scummy things about ryan on day 1, but on day 2 he's been more protown.

So yeah, I pretty much get your point, Twomz. I feel there could be a lot more to go on this close to the deadline.

[Gorgon]

I'm highly sceptical. I'm mindful of a recent game where I was a mafia roleblocker and fakeclaimed town roleblocker on the third and last day. It worked like a charm, all things considered.

[Gorgon]

I think I've seen enough. I'm as confident about who's the best lynch candidate as I'm likely to get before the deadline.

Unvote

Vote: Paradoxombie

Sorry man, you're scummy. Apologies in advance if I'm wrong here.

[Gorgon]

Because from what I see your role has an actual name, while ours are only called "cowboy" and "harlot".

Did CKD actually provide us his name? Cuz I don't think he did...

Well ...

I am the vig, Capt Shortbus...

I took this as ckd calling Para 'Capt Shortbus', perhaps as a reference to something (movie, whatever ...). Didn't think much of it at the time and then forgot it. Now that you mention it, I can see that ckd could have been saying that Capt Shortbus is the name of the role.

Which is it, ckd?

[Gorgon]

Guess so. Wikipedia to the rescue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_bus

Short buses can be used by smaller school districts on routes with few students to pick up. However, a more prominent use is to transport small numbers of children to and from vocational school, or schools for children with emotional disorders or mental disabilities.

Because of this second use of the buses, "taking the short bus" or other phrases to that effect has become a pejorative slang term used to imply that the subject has mental or emotional shortcomings.

You learn something new every day.

[Gorgon]

And while we're at it, ckd was addressing pdcakes, not Para, as I mistakenly wrote.

[Gorgon]

Deadline is 4 days away. So approximately 96 hours time.

This was written on the 28th, 4:04 PM forum time. So I guess the deadline hits at 4:00 PM forum time (On November 1, obv).

[Gorgon]

I was the sheriff (cop). Aimee investigated Twomz I on Night 0 and got an innocent. I investigated Simenon Night 1 but you bastards blocked me. I was going to investigate him again ... too bad I never got the chance to use that guilty result (unless you scumbags were planning to block me again).

I'm not particularily surprised to see that Twomz II (formerly GOW) was scum, nor Simenon ... but kabenon actually surpised me a little.