Mini 1793: Freedom's Call (uPick Anything): Finale

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

Oh wow, the people here remind me of all my worst games.
I like Ranger and Anti for town. Don't feel great about Postie but don't feel great about her wagon either.
VOTE: Arabella for being the hydra that's even slower than us. Also because Ari
-smart

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I thought the way he did setup spec was towny in that it showed honest motivation to figure out the game.
-smart

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

'kay so we got this upick by rc, blitz 25 from a couple months ago.

Spoiler:

town:
2-Shot Bulletproof Bodyguard
Motion Detector
Mason Tree Stump
Mason Encryptor
Pregame 2-Shot Neighbourizer
Super Saint Suicide Bomber
Loved Macho Townie

scum:
Encryptor JoAT Inventor Traitor
1-Shot Ninja Flavour Cop
1-Shot Gladiator Conditional Strongman

that's pretty scumsided...
the only town investigative is the motion detector so throwing a cop in here would be different. i guess rc could do cop/godfather combo ...? depending on who reviewed this.

Quick aside regarding RC's mod meta.. I'm pretty sure he hates godfathers and wouldn't put one in the game voluntarily (can reviewers make a mod add a role?). I'd like to believe that Ranger is town here by claiming miller, even if the godfather speculation comes across as ick.

-Smarter

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

(can reviewers make a mod add a role?)

hahahahahahahahahaaahaaaaahhaha


no

I wouldn't know, I've never had a game reviewed.

So yeah given that I highly doubt that there's a godfather in this game.

Are you scumreading us, anti?

-Smarter

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

Are you scumreading us, anti?

nope

Why did you ask whitelight if they were?

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

Already forgetting to sign.

-Smarter

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

^ that was for antihero

why did it bother you that they were townreading me?

You have posts that weren't setup spec which they could have thought was towny so I wanted to see if there was more to there read on you. Also I wanted to see if they would concede to me and revoke there town read on you which would be pretty scummy.

UNVOTE:
I think Posties reaction is pretty legit to be perfectly honest. I think it is more a combination of disagreements on how we think and communication errors that got us to this point. I also don't like the idea of someone being wagoned this hard before everyone has had the chance to post.


~Bee

I don't like this post.
-smart

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Why are we still having this conversation about shotty's claim.
Postie, get some reads. What's off about WhiteLight defending shotty?
-smart

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He's not even under any real pressure. How can you whiteknight someone who's not under pressure?
Also why are you assuming the person you're attacking is town for the purposes of attacking someone else?
-smart

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

VOTE: WhiteLight
Still have my eye on Postie. I don't agree that WhiteLight's defending of shotty is scummy, and 150 trades the assumption that shotty is town for an equally bad one that WhiteLight is scum.

Gamma's read on Postie in 151 feels like the type of townread that scum can pick up most easily.

I don't see the point of 154 or 155.
-smart

Pedit: Ircher, thoughts on Postie and WhiteLight. Go.
Double pedit: I don't love those reads.

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

Postie quick you must overcompensate!

Still have my eye on Postie. I don't agree that WhiteLight's defending of shotty is scummy, and 150 trades the assumption that shotty is town for an equally bad one that WhiteLight is scum.

Yet despite this comment. We are still worth of your vote. Quick turn around on this lynch train...

~Suz

And yet... that's not what I was saying. I'm trying to sort you and right now I think you are scum. (That last comment didn't help.) Postie's argument is literally "WhiteLight is scum because they are whiteknighting shotty. I know shotty is town because WhiteLight wouldn't defend their partner like that." which is like, logical fallacies out the wazoo. Doesn't mean I don't think you're scum.
-smart

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

My role PM says I get three warnings and, while I've messed up three times now, I haven't gotten any warnings so hopefully I'm still good.

And sorry, Anti. I've never seen scum!you so I don't really know how to sort you. I mean I know I don't know the scum meta of most of the people I'm townreading, but they're, like, towny in a way I think would be difficult to fake.

And Anti isn't?

Do you usually rely on meta to scumhunt, Postie?

-Smarter

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

171 and 174 are trash.
In response to 173: really it's just I didn't like the hostile defensiveness of the whole post.
Ircher v. Antihero is mostly Ircher making noise. I was going to say what if Ranger has more to her role than just miller, but looks like I got ninja'd. We probably shouldn't discuss it much more, butI'll just say I'm not putting it past Ranger to purposely imply there isn't more to her role when there is.
God, everyone, stop posting so fast! This is why I don't play Minis more often.
-smart

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

And Anti isn't?

I don't understand what you're asking.

Do you usually rely on meta to scumhunt, Postie?

I find it helpful but don't rely on it except for players I'm really familiar with.

And yet, you're basically using meta in townreading people to say that Anti isn't a townread because you're not familiar with his meta. ??????

-Smarter

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bella and ari's absence troubles me

There was no day start PM.

The fact Postie didn't notice my absence despite doing a readwall us troubling

Why?

-Smarter

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

Hey guys, this game you have the pleasure of playing with a WHOLE HOARD OF OTTERS!
We don't want to cause confusion though, so we'll be assigning one otter as a representative each day. Today you get me - Charlie the happy sea otter!

VOTE: Virtue

Why are you alting? What do you have to hide?

oh my god can we kill this yet

Didn't I sub into my main by the time this started?

Also, obligatory disclosure: My odd-night ability is very anti-town or very protown depending on circumstances, but most likely anti-town enough to be obligatory claiming BC compulsive.

am I quoted here because you agree...?

The answer to my question determines how I feel about Postie.

I don't follow.... what am I missing here?

I think I know what's going on here. I'll keep quiet for now.

-Smarter

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

I'm so on board the Postie wagon.

VOTE: Postie

-Smarter

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

VOTE: Ircher

Ok this is definitely scum, no town would ever vote a town read like that.

~Bee

Way to declare L-1.

Well now I can't decide which of you is scummier.

-Smarter

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

Conf Town: Postie
Likely Town: Gamma, Ranger
Leaning Town: Whitelight -- I dont buy the case
Neutral Leaning Town: Limit -- Just cuz
Null: Arabella
Neitral Leaning Scum: Yume
Leaning Scum: Demonic Angel

Please tell us why we're now your top scumpick, Ircher?

-Smarter

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

@white- why do you think you would have been lynched today and why would titus assume that?

Antihero was obv town and is an incredibly stubborn player that definitely would have kept pushing us. We where also at L-2 with 0 people opposed to our lynch.

~Bee

So like... this is why you killed Antihero? Is that what you're saying?

What makes you think Anti was the nightkill?

~Bee

@white- why do you think you would have been lynched today and why would titus assume that?

Antihero was obv town and is an incredibly stubborn player that definitely would have kept pushing us. We where also at L-2 with 0 people opposed to our lynch.

~Bee

So like... this is why you killed Antihero? Is that what you're saying?

What makes you think Anti was the nightkill?

~Bee

Yeah, why wouldn't scum kill Shotty instead?

Sorry, y'all think scum would kill Shotty, who was getting heat for his softclaim, over Anti, a basically universal townread? Wtf?

Pedit: please do tell how DA is conftown. That post was ew. More later.

-Smarter

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

I've liked Limit's play so far for town.

Clearly you have never played with either head.

I also like the idea of lynching outside the neighborhood since it forces the scum to kill outside of it to give them more mislynch options.

Is this supposed to be lynching inside the neighborhood?

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

-Smarter

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

Ircher, have you ever played with an Ari hydra?

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

Okay.

Postie, can you explain why you are townreading us? (I know you're conftown, just satisfy my curiosity.)

-Smarter

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

WL, has your read on us changed since you voted us?

-Smarter

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

/shrug. How would I know?

-Smarter

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

Hey, guys, I'm finally here. I'll be super busy all week, though I'll try to find time for this.

Wow, though, this game looks solvable. Postie is town, Demonic is probably town, Ranger and Gamma are strong townreads, and I'm having a very hard time visualizing a scumteam that's not Ircher/WhiteLight.

This does not feel like beeboy's town play at all; besides misrepping my meta and my play this game, there's Ranger's points and I'm sure there's other stuff I'm forgetting (whenever I have to catch up, I form reads but I tend to forget the individual reasons for them). Ircher's play has been similarly weak and his townread on White followed by a vote on them is the most awkward thing I've seen in a long time.

I'd be comfortable voting either one, but I don't see the need to have another short day since we've got time.
-smart

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

WL, has your read on us changed since you voted us?

-Smarter

You are more null right now as you are starting to engage and it is meeting the expectations I had going into this game (idk where Lilith is though).

Hey, guys, I'm finally here. I'll be super busy all week, though I'll try to find time for this.

Wow, though, this game looks solvable. Postie is town, Demonic is probably town, Ranger and Gamma are strong townreads, and I'm having a very hard time visualizing a scumteam that's not Ircher/WhiteLight.

This does not feel like beeboy's town play at all; besides misrepping my meta and my play this game, there's Ranger's points and I'm sure there's other stuff I'm forgetting (whenever I have to catch up, I form reads but I tend to forget the individual reasons for them). Ircher's play has been similarly weak and his townread on White followed by a vote on them is the most awkward thing I've seen in a long time.

I'd be comfortable voting either one, but I don't see the need to have another short day since we've got time.
-smart

Well you said thing about how you did "not feel like this is beeboy's town play" the last time we played together and I was definitely town in the last game we played together. So there is a serious gap on your understanding of how I play as town and as scum.
Another thing is that the only way I could possibly be misreping you is if you think that Pokemon mafia was an outlier in terms of how well you played because your day one in pokemon mafia was definitely a lot higher quality then your day 1 here. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is a misrep unfortunately. Just because your day 2 is good it doesn't change the fact that I really didn't like your day 1 to be perfectly honest.

If you are fine voting either let's vote Ircher together

~Bee

That just literally doesn't even make sense, Smart has posted all of once today, and his one post wasn't much "interaction" whatsoever.

Intent to vote when I get wifi again and can check the VC

-Smarter

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

Well first of all beeboy you know lilith is Smarter right. It's a little joke, I'm smart and she's smarter
Second of all, Pokemon was an outlier only in how obvious the scum were by the end. Don't forget that you were scumreading us too day 1 and you too came around on us once UTL and SoS obvscummed.

What seemed to me to be a misrep was that my perception is that my day 1 play in Pokemon was average, and here it was average as well. So if you could provide some quotes illustrating (1) how good my play was in Pokemon and (2) how bad it was here, that might help.

I also have another question for you beeboy: do you think an us/Ircher team is feasible?
-smart

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

Well first of all beeboy you know lilith is Smarter right. It's a little joke, I'm smart and she's smarter
Second of all, Pokemon was an outlier only in how obvious the scum were by the end. Don't forget that you were scumreading us too day 1 and you too came around on us once UTL and SoS obvscummed.

What seemed to me to be a misrep was that my perception is that my day 1 play in Pokemon was average, and here it was average as well. So if you could provide some quotes illustrating (1) how good my play was in Pokemon and (2) how bad it was here, that might help.

I also have another question for you beeboy: do you think an us/Ircher team is feasible?
-smart

You read my mind!

-Smarter

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

I never said you being scum was supported by deceased, I said this was, this being that Ranger is town and WL is scum. You're my own scumread which isn't supported by anything but my own intelligence. Way to misinterpret me. :/

To be fair, you didn't specify that your Ircher scumread wasn't backed up by deceased's.

-Smarter

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

Also, not trying to scumhunt? So giving you guys a room to talk among yourselves is 'not trying to scumhunt'. Okay then, I will flood the thread from now on. >.>

Also, it's not about flooding the thread (although nice deflection), you just haven't made an effort to interact with anyone whatsoever.

-Smarter

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

Well, I'll give you what you want, just say the word.

Great.
Here's what I want: an explanation of your reads, particularly the Ircher one.
-smart

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

Yume, lilith would like to know whom you protected.
-smart

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

VOTE: Ircher
We have autowin. If by some miracle this flips town, we just lynch everyone else in the neighborhood.
-smart

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

Man, that's a good claim. I like Yume for town.

If Ircher flips scum you're guarding Ranger right?

And Ranger should claim her check tonight if she has a chance. Given the strength of these roles there's probably 4 scum.

I would say if Ranger doesn't get a chance to post then check Arabella.

Also Lilith wanted to know your check last night if possible.
-smart

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

@Mod: is Ranger supposed to be on the VC instead of Demonic?

I'd be OK with a massclaim. I want Demonic to go first.

I'm pretty sure the scum is in <Bella, Demonic>.
-smart

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

Lol, now I'm even more sure. Why don't you two just discredit me a bit more?

Also, odds are Ranger's check was on somebody who died.

And I'm not claiming before Demonic.
-smart

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

We're Mewtwo, conditonal ascetic vig. We're a vig, and if we live to D4 we evolve into Mega Mewtwo Y and become ascetic.
Night 1 we shot shotty. Night 3 we tried to shoot Demonic but apparently were jailkept.

I don't even see how this is possible to screw up. We and Postie are both conftown, we have a jailkeeper and a vig. I would say we lynch Bella, Demonic jailkeeps Gamma and Yume protects Postie while we shoot Demonic, if both flip town then lynch Yume. No lynch would also probably work.
-smart

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

lol, it was just for the PoE because you were not confirmed.

I think Bella's claim is the most lynchworthy (scum voteless + scum doublevoter would make sense) and she's the most dangerous to keep alive because hated, but I'm interested to hear Ranger's thoughts.

I forgot about Gamma's 1-shot cop in 506, but I don't know if we even need it. If we were to make use of that we'd probably no lynch and have Demonic get copped and Bella jailkept. I think either plan would work.

Pedit: what?
-smart

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

ascetic

Can't be protected, can't be roleblocked either
Also can't be copped so it's a good thing that already happened.
-smart

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

Hi, Sophie. WhiteLight was the godfather.

Also, I was a bit confused when Titus was lynched about how short the time between you being hammered and her flipping was... did you choose her to die instead?
-smart

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

3) You think there are two scum remaining

Please no. That would just be cruel.

I'm in favor of the lynch Bella plan, as I'm pretty sure Demonic is conftown given that they claimed their action before we did. Demonic jailkeeps Postie, which minimizes the danger in the scenario where Postie is scum, Yume protects Gamma, and Gamma checks Yume. We don't shoot. Then either we die, and Yume is either confscum or conftown making Gamma confscum, or Yume dies, making Gamma confscum again. Upon no kill we lynch Yume if there's a guilty, otherwise Gamma and jailkeep Postie who is confscum if Gamma flips town. If this made no sense just say so and I'll lay it out more clearly.
-smart

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

@Demonic: You can lynch one and jail the other in that scenario. Quite honestly I find it unlikely that either is scum.
-smart

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

oh oh oh I know!
We shoot Postie. If Demonic does anything besides jailkeep Postie, she'll die and town will know.

And if Postie's the only one to die, we'll have a 1v1 either between Gamma and Yume or Gamma and Demonic, with us alive to shoot the other if we mislynch.

Hm. On second thought I'm not so sure this is a good idea.

Also @yume for Demonic to be scum they would have to both be bulletproof and have predicted who was the vig and who they would shoot. Though I guess it could have been obvious from my comments this morning that I had a failed kill.
-smart

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

Bella's hated so don't hammer her without consensus.

I suddenly don't want to trust Demonic again... I noticed the part in the rules that said "unless their role PM explicitly says otherwise" and it could be a "you can do both if you're the last scum remaining" thing... and multiple people (including Ranger) are suspicious of them.

I'm getting a vibe of "I'm conftown stop doubting me and get on with the plan already"... I can't believe there's no way to do this without assuming Demonic is town.

I think we should actually try assuming Yume is town. Besides the macho flip, that would be a super awesome fakeclaim.

If we do that:
No lynch
Demonic jailkeeps Postie
Yume protects Gamma
Gamma cops Demonic
We shoot nobody

Possible results:
We die, Gamma has guilty/no result: 1v1 between Gamma and Demonic with 5 alive
We die, Gamma has innocent: 3 confirmed town (Yume, Postie, Demonic)
Yume dies, Gamma has guilty/no result: 1v1 between Gamma and Demonic with 5 alive
Yume dies, Gamma has innocent: 3 confirmed town (us, Postie, Demonic)
Nobody dies, Gamma has guilty/no result: 1v1 between Gamma and Demonic with 6 alive
Nobody dies, Gamma hs innocent: 4 confirmed town (us, Yume, Postie, Demonic)

I don't even know which is best. I hate it when games turn into break-the-setup. (@Postie remember ETL's UPICKSORTA? It's feeling like the same thing here :/)
-smart

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

I like that.
If Demonic doesn't die they're pretty much confirmed scum.
I'm ready for a hammer. I'd say we get everyone's formal agreement to this plan before hammering.
-smart

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

Quite surprised that both Bella and Demonic flipped town. I really think what whoever of Yume/Gamma we lynch doesn't matter.
However to whichever one of them is scum I say well played.
VOTE: Gamma I'd tend toward this too and there's no way it could matter.
-smart