Mini #509: Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers, Game Over!

[Peers]

vote: Originality

'cause I recently said I'd drop any game if I saw him sign up for it, and I forgot to check the list on this game...

[Peers]

vote: Originality

'cause I recently said I'd drop any game if I saw him sign up for it, and I forgot to check the list on this game...

This a warning for the rest of us?

No, more a warning for him, really. I'm more than willing to give him a second chance, but I don't give thirds.

Which, I know, is scummy, because voting for someone regardless of what their role is can hurt the town... but I've yet to see actual logic applied on the first day, so...

[Peers]

Unvote

Vote: Jmar

Illegal Monty Python Quoting, ten yard penalty, repeat first down!

[Peers]

Page 1 lynch in a 12 player game? I'm sad now

In theory, with a majority vote to lynch and the mod using the first, say, three posts on a 15-post page to set up the game, you could have a first-page lynch in a 23-person game. But it would require everyone to be really, really working together for it.

[Peers]

... what's the point of a bandwagon right now, again?

[Peers]

Considering you haven't played with UA before, I'll let the fact that you don't realinze it was a total joke that he does every game slide...

... don't get me started on jokes that a) aren't funny and b) waste time... I already have one person almost on my always-drop list because of that...

[Peers]

I love the fact the first person to back me up about this is named Mirth.

[Peers]

I dunno... a five-person bandwagon (4 not counting the self-voter) in a 12-person game... it's perfectly reasonable for the scum to not be on that bandwagon. The problem is, you get into a WIFOM arguement over if they would or wouldn't avoid it.

The sad thing is, we have very little to go on, and what we do have is based on randomness and bad humor. We either lynch someone totally at random, or don't lynch anyone at all. If we lynch at random, at least there's a chance of hitting a scum... and UA may just be trying to protect himself with that "Oh, I always do this" 'joke'...

Vote: UltimaAvalon

[Peers]

Yes, there's a chance of hitting scum with a random lynch. Why that means its better than a logical lynch is beyond me.

If a logical lynch were possible, I'd be all for it. But it's not, given that we don't have any information to go on that doesn't stem from someone's attempts to get laughs out of the first day.

[Peers]

I'm not trying to discourage your scum-seeking ways, but what are the odds of a group of people behaving in a satistically sound way?

Statisticly speaking, the odds are even.

... great, now -I'm- joking...

[Peers]

It's not true, the mod posted the townie PM in the opening in which Putty Patrollers were described. So we know multiple people (vanilla townies) are Putty Patrollers.

Unless, of course, nobody received that PM because nobody is a vanilla townie. It'd be a little high-powered for a small game, but this -is- Power Rangers...

[Peers]

It was hypothetical. I reserve the right to claim Putty as my role in the future. I was simply saying, we have no proof there are multiple putties in teh game; just because a generic Putty role was posted doesn't mean it's being used. Except, of course, for those who received it.

[Peers]

That's assuming it's a slip in the first place. It could have been done to make the scum think that everyone has a power role and can mess with them in some way.

[Peers]

First, I don't think what Peers has said is necessarily indicitive of a power role or a scum tell. I don't like post 155 though because retroactively justifying statements like that makes me edgy.

I agree with Mirth- Peers, if that's what you meant by that statement, why didn't you say that in the first place?

Because in the first place, I said one thing, and people implied something compeltely different -- I've given up trying to predict what I need to say in the first place or what needs to be justified.

[Peers]

Peers, why are you being defensive now?

... because I'm being attacked? Pretty much the only time to get defensive, really, when you think about it.

[Peers]

Peers, why are you being defensive now?

... because I'm being attacked? Pretty much the only time to get defensive, really, when you think about it.

Could someone point out to me what part of that is scummy enough to get C.E.S. to vote for me? 'cause I'm not seeing it.

[Peers]

Peers, why are you being defensive now?

... because I'm being attacked? Pretty much the only time to get defensive, really, when you think about it.

I'm curious because your not being attacked particularly strongly.

Ah, but you admit I

am

being attacked. So my putting up a defense to these attacks should not seem strange to you.

[Peers]

How does one lurk in plain sight, anyway?

[Peers]

Unvote

Ultima hasn't done much to me lately, and there's defintely some odd stuff going on vis a vis bandwagoning and the use of vis a vis in a Mafia post (wait, that was me...)

[Peers]

In no particular order, 'cause none of these are strong enough for me to make/keep a vote on them right now:

Ultima, for a general scum feel, although it's going away as time goes on.

Originality, for the vote-unvote-two-posts-later thing. That feels bad. His playstyle also feels different than the last game I was in with him; wither he's not town in this one, or he's just wised up, I don't know.

jmar, because despite my saying otherwise, I didn't backtrack on anything. I said, hypotheticly, maybe nobody got the Putty Patroller message. I never said I didn't. Using false logic to reach assumptions isn't a scumtell, it may just be a stupidtell... and I'm trying not to look at it differently just because it involves me.

[Peers]

Mirth is another possibility. UA's BW was obviously a joke, but the fact that she was seriously opposing it could be her trying real hard to look like town. Maybe she thought that everyone would really lynch UA and then she'd have some credibility by being the only one to oppose it. I just saw this in another game with UA. But...again...I don't know. I'm kind of in between with her too. I see her as pro-town, but then she keeps bringing up the UA BW like it was more than just a joke to get things started.

It wasn't obviously a joke. I didn't know that; it's not hard to believe people who'd never played with UA or any of the others involved would think that way, too.

[Peers]

unvote: Flameaxe

I guess he won me over with his "You're stupid!" defense.

vote: UltimaAvalon

I guess I'm an enabler.

---

Killerbob: Your lurking isn't helping the town at all, stop it, or I will bring out the paddle.

Unovte

Vote: Flameaxe

Reason: The above quote was made by Unright, not me. He put my name on it... why? To try to rally suspicion around me? Don't know. But he's trying to put words in my mouth, and I don't like that.

[Peers]

Unvote, Vote: Peers

The fact that you voted for UA unaware that it was a wagon that shouldn't have been taken seriously scares me.

I think you need to take another look at the comments from those who voted for him. There was no serious arguement against UA, which should tell you that it was a wagon that wasn't all that serious, especially since it's the first few pages of the game.

Note that I did not vote for UA until post 89 (or so), after I was aware it was some sort of joke bandwagon, and I gave as my reason for voting the fact that such jokes are not helpful to the town.

[Peers]

unvote: Flameaxe

I guess he won me over with his "You're stupid!" defense.

vote: UltimaAvalon

I guess I'm an enabler.

---

Killerbob: Your lurking isn't helping the town at all, stop it, or I will bring out the paddle.

Unovte

Vote: Flameaxe

Reason: The above quote was made by Unright, not me. He put my name on it... why? To try to rally suspicion around me? Don't know. But he's trying to put words in my mouth, and I don't like that.

I mistook you two, nothing more, nothing less. (neither of you have avatars, fix it, and that doesn't happen anymore.)

I think that's a stupid reason for a vote, honestly. Almost seems like scum voting over something stupid, to me.

True, I do not have an avatar.

Unright, however, does.

Once again, you're using untruths to try and make me look like scum. And again I ask... why? If I were really scum, and you were really town, you wouldn't need lies to try and frame someone.

[Peers]

Peers, could you please explain your vote on Flameaxe right now?

Posts 248 (where I actually made the vote) and post 251 for added incentive for me to keep it there.

So...why jump on?

Because 'jokes' like that hurt the town -- the best solution is to get rid of the person behind the joke and hope he realizes it's a problem so they won't do it the next game. Since UA was behind the jokewagon, he got the vote.

Which, yeah, ironically means I had to join the joke to get rid of him...

This game is slow slow slow. What happens if I unvote, vote: Peers?

You get a very sad Peers. That's pretty much it.

ATTENTION: Misquoting is NOT a Scumtell. I repeat. Messing up the quote tags IS NOT a scumtell

You may be true. But covering up for it with another lie? What happened to Lynch All Liars?

[Peers]

What happened to Lynch All Liars?

Lynch all Liars is a way to prevent people from gambiting in the future, pretty much in the same way you wanted to lynch Avalon to get rid of the jokewagon. However, these LAL lynches often result in mislynches, and LAL is by no means a viable strategy.

.... wow. Given how I'd heard it talked about here and elsewhere, I figured it was pretty much a hard-and-fast rule people go by.

unvote

Now I'm confused as all heck.

[Peers]

Yes, I know. I wasn't meaning to lie here, but hell, it happened anyway. Sometimes my brain just gets jumbled up, and I happened to get more people mixed up than I should be. I honestly have no clue how I mixed up the quotes in the first post. I fucked up, yes, I did.

In my personal experience, making statements like that gets other people to vote for you because you're backtracking.

[Peers]

Aaand,

Unvote

, since Peers is no longer on top of my scumlist.

Mind if we ask who is?

[Peers]

Was trying to test his reactions. Way to mess that up, though, Blight

Strange test. We all know you like to twist words around to try and make people look scummy. And by 'you', I mean 'both of you'.

Can we lynch two people in one day? Game'd be a lot more fun without them.

[Peers]

Actually, I don't know a thing about Flameaxe's playstyle. I only see him in Scumchat, and things like that dont exist there

We all know you like to twist words around to try and make people look scummy. And by 'you', I mean 'both of you'

and by 'both of you' do you include yourself? Cus you've been doing it all game, pal.

Really? Where. Please give us an example of me twisting words around to try and make people look scummy.

I prefer to use un-twisted words to show scuminess. Twisting them only throws chaff into people's scumdar. But then, you know that.

[Peers]

He's not voting for you based on membership in Team Asshat. He's voting for you based on that fact that you are, in fact, a total asshat.

And he's not the only one.

Vote: Flameaxe

Either you're scum, or you're a poor town player who distracts the rest of us from finding scum. Either way, you need to go.

[Peers]

Peers, give me a good reason why not to vote you right now, please. Because I'm not sure how much longer the already sizable wagon on you will continue to deter me.

This is the third time you've wagon jumped. For very poor reasons. Yes, Flameaxe is obnoxious. Being obnoxious is not a scumtell.

To be fair, this most recent one was not wagon-jumping, it was realizing my previous unvoting of Flameaxe was a mistake.

You're right. Being obnoxious is not a scumtell. However, when that obnoxiousness is so strong that it becomes the focal point of the game, then either a) the obnoxious person is scum, or b) the obnoxious person is town and working to help the scum by being so obnoxious.

The goal of the game is to win. Town cannot hunt scum is someone is being so obnoxious they throw everyone else's scumdar off.

[Peers]

Prove that my being obnoxious hinders the town. I can be obnoxious and still scumhunt just fine.

Doesn't matter if -you- can. It matters if the -town- can.

You can be the best soldier in the world -- a crack shot, can march 400 miles a day with no food and water, master five martial arts and be able to plan a jailbreak of POWs with the contents of a metrosexual's glove compartment -- and if you start being obnoxious during a mission, distracting people from their jobs, allowing the other side to get an advantage, then your own side is perfectly justified in shooting your ass so you don't get the rest of them killed.

Well, I don't have a gun, just a vote. And I've used it. You're screwing over the town with your actions. It needs to stop.

[Peers]

You still need to answer my last post's many answers also.

The above quote is from your post 303. Your 'last post' was post 298. In it, you ask exactly one thing.

Please then, explain to me this: How does me being a 'total asshat' = scum?

I have already answered this question. It doesn't. You may very well be town. However, if you are, you're the worst kind of town, one that pretty much ensures the game will be a scum victory. And therefor, you need to go.

So, tell me, what's next on your agenda now that you can't attack me for not answering your 'many questions' that I've been so amazingly good at ignoring by answering them already in posts 302/306/this one?

[Peers]

How am I bad town to you? I feel like I'm huntin' dem scumz just fine, I'm sorry if I don't do it the same way you do: attacking with flimsy reasons.

Amazingly enough, the reason you're bad town to me is that you attack with flimsy reasons. Go fig.

And now my new big scumtell is that... I don't care if you're town or scum? Wow.

Now, I'll agree with you, to a point. Wanting all the townies dead? Scumtell. Wanting lots of townies dead? Scumtell. Wanting one particular townie dead so he can't screw over the town and the rest of us can get the scum? Not a scumtell.

I'm fairly confident that if you don't get lynched today or tomorrow, the game will end in a scum victory, whether you're scum or not. And that, my friend, is why I don't care if you're scum or town... I know that your survival means the town loses.

[Peers]

PEERS!

If you're so concerned about your ability to scumhunt, why are you willing to admit Flameaxe is town, but still convinced he needs to die. I see you turn IC in a few days, but you've obviously missed a very important lesson about what Town is supposed to do in Mafia. Town is supposed to LYNCH MAFIA! If there's someone who is townie yet obstructive, you don't waste a lynch. YOU IGNORE HIM!

The goal of the town is not to lynch mafia. The goal of the town is to win.

Most of the time, yes, the best way to do this is to lynch mafia. But there are cases (say, a goon who is siblings with a town power-role, or some situations involving SKs, or those involving town players who are acting like scum players) where it's best to lynch someone else. They are rare, but they exist, and we have one here.

Just because I'm going after you for something I find to be scummy, doesn't mean I'm here to screw over the town.

And yet, going after you for something I find to be scummy (note: In this case 'scummy' does not mean 'is scum' but means 'will make scum win') is a bad reason for me to vote for you? Double standards only apply if the two people are different factions.

I'm town. Which means you are... what, again?

[Peers]

... you're not even bothering to read my posts, are you? You're just skimming them.

Let me spell it out for you slowly, like I would for a small child.

The town wants to win.
The town wins when the bad guys are gone.
Bad guys are a) mafia, b) SKs, c) people who are so damn retarded they do stupid stuff that prevents a) and b) from being lynched.

Now, if you want to lynch a mafia, but a townie is making it so you can't... you get rid of that townie. Then you can get rid of the mafia instead of banging your head into their brick wall.

At this point, everyone in this game has a choice to make: Lynch one of you, and remove part of the brick wall; Lynch me, because I let myself get dragged down to your level and look just as bad as you; or lynch someone else... which will be difficult because of the animosity going on here, but if it happens, more power to 'em.

The difference is, if you're lynched, I can focus on helping my fellow townies find the scum. If I'm lynched, you'll just keep being an asshat to Unright, and then pick a new target after him.

[Peers]

Stop trying to lead the town, let them make their own decisions.

... Oh, wow, I lead the town into telling them they can vote for anyone, that's so amazingly scummy...

[Peers]

Referring to us as a 'brick wall' was though.

ps. still havent proved anything...I'm gonna keep saying it till I get some.

.... okay, first, don't feed me lines like that. You overwhelm me with the number of possible ways to make fun of you 'not getting some' that, while funny enough to share, have no place in this game.

Secondly... are you saying we're not a brick wall? Do you honestly think anything could happen to get you to change your vote away from me, or for me to change my vote away from you? That's pretty much the definition of the brick wall, and anyone in this game can already see it.

[Peers]

Now, if you want to lynch mafia, but a townie is making it so you can't...YOU IGNORE THAT TOWNIE! Then you can focus on the mafia instead of watching the Town to Scum ratio falling.

Do you honestly think it's possible for anyone to ignore you?

At this point, everyone has a choice to make. lynch you or Unright, due to your inability to ACTUALLY BUILD A CASE BASED ON SOLID EVIDENCE; bring themselves down to your level and lynch UA or BBM, and look just as retarded as you; or lynch someone else, which they wont, because no one else has done anything, and if they have, its been lost because of this pointless argument you've dragged us all into.

Now who's leading?

... and who mentioned lynching BBM? I didn't.

The difference is, if you're lynched, the games average IQ will rise, and the game just might be enjoyable. There will also be less scum. If I'm lynched, you're down one less townie. If BBM is lynched, I'm going to cry, because there is no case against him.

Now, see, I was trying to stay away from the personal attacks, but y'know, whatever floats your boat.

If I'm lynched, then the town loses a member, no matter what you may believe. But that's okay; I think you're scum, too.

And now that I think of it... who the heck is BBM?

[Peers]

Peers, could you please try to make some sense, please?

I'm pretty sure this puts you at L-2 Peers. So please, explain yourself. Without advocating town lynches please.

*shrug* I'm town. Specificly, a Putty. Some of you will believe that, some of you won't, you'll find out in two more votes I guess.

Yes, this is a closed setup. Yes, a mislynch could put us in a bad place. But I'd rather be in a bad place able to focus than be in an okay place with a rather large distraction protecting the scum. The hell you chose over the hell that's forced onto you.

Mathmaticly, yes, lynching town is evilbadwrong and should never be done. Mafia is not simply a logical game you can play by math. You need to use your emotions, your gut, etc. Otherwise, there would be no reason for multiple people to be so upset wiht me that they begin doing the all-caps thing for multiple posts.

I hit a button somewhere. I'm fairly sure now it's a scum button. But I can't prove it on my lonesome.

[Peers]

Unless, of course, nobody received that PM because nobody is a vanilla townie. It'd be a little high-powered for a small game, but this -is- Power Rangers...

*shrug* I'm town. Specificly, a Putty. Some of you will believe that, some of you won't, you'll find out in two more votes I guess.

Contradict yourself much?

Nope. The first statement as done as a response to someone's post about how many power roles / mafia they thought we could expect in this game. The second is truth.

[Peers]

unvote

for now.

Peers lied to the town, and that grates REALLY badly with me. I've already stated my opinion about liars. But my gut tells me he might just be awful. Let me think.

... I never lied to the town. Hell, I'm the one who brought up the Lynch All Liars theory -- if I lied, I'd be happy to accept your vote. But I haven't lied.

[Peers]

If my vote count is correct, that's 5 on him, but mod, can we get a vote count please?

Your votecount is incorrect. Peers is currently being voted by UA, Blight, Flameaxe, Mirth, Originality and you. That's 6, and Lynch -1.

jmar was right. I unvoted. Peers is at 5 and L-2

Unless, of course, unvotes don't count when they're in quotes. In which case, I'm gone.

[Peers]

Unvote

Don't know if it'll make a difference right now, but might as well.

And PWS, what has jmar done besides, y'know, listen to Originality and vote for me?

[Peers]

I did think Peers' statement was hypothetical, because I didn't read it closely enough. Originality explained it to me- his theory makes no sense unless he had a power role.

Hold up, hold up... Originality's only post lately has been about the whole "lynch townies who help scum" arguement I started...

... so when did he explain it to you? And perhaps more importantly... where?

[Peers]

@ Peers: Posts 133-135.

Christ, man, that was two weeks ago! It took you this long to decide to act on it?

[Peers]

@Jmar: You are using my words for evil.

Dude, you voted for me, too. How is him doing it evil and you not?

[Peers]

@ Peers: Posts 133-135.

Christ, man, that was two weeks ago! It took you this long to decide to act on it?

You just claimed Putty! Which contradicts what you earlier said! That's why I'm acting on it.

How does "I claim Putty" contradict "I reserve the right to claim Putty at a later date"? We've been over the whole "Yes, taken at face value, it sounds like I have a power role, but it was said as a hypothetical" arguement already. That was -so- last week, man.

[Peers]

It's kinda hard to defend the truth when you've already said it... it's not like there's something more truthful than the truth you can use to back yourself up.

Between the two posts Flameaxe so helpfully quoted was a debate over if I meant that hypothetically or not. I said that I had, and that I reserved the right to claim Putty in the future. Well, I claimed Putty. I told people back then I was going to -- why is my following through on my word scummy? If I claimed anything else, it would be a lie, and I don't lie.

... well, in-game, at least.

If you want a defense of the "maybe we're all power roles" thing, you know which days you need to re-read. My defense hasn't changed. It was a backfired attempt at causing paranoia among the Mafia. I've said as much, I've apologized, anyone who has a problem with that still... well, they're on my scumdar, but it probably won't matter who I think is scummy at this rate.

[Peers]

"Backfired attempt at casusing paranoia among Mafia" sounds like you're ascribing meaning to an event post hoc. Who do you think is suspicious? Because you've been making me uncomfortable with your actions for a while now, and I'd like to get as far inside your head as possible short of imitating Ed Gein.

I never said I wasn't suspicious. I know I am. But after the huge blow-up between me, FlameAxe, and UltimaAvalon... the word 'Unvote' was used. Why? Because I said I was town, they said they were town, and the odd thing... we believed each other despite how much we pissed each other off and everything else we might consider evidence to the contrary.

Think about it. What -possible- reason could I have for saying "Maybe we all have power roles" other than trying to put that suggestion into the Mafia's head? Most people think that I was outing myself as a power role, but they seem to think it was unintentional. I say I was trying to confuse the Mafia. And there's the outside chance that I'm Mafia trying to screw up the players mindless of the fact it would draw attention to myself, in which case, wow, that worked wonders, huh? (Come to think of it, it worked 'wonders' no matter what my intentions about it were...)

Mirth, you've already got your vote on me. If all I've done is make you uncomfortable, then isn't a vote a bit strong? Aren't you already inside my head, and you think it's scummy? Because if not...

[Peers]

Bob: I think UA unvoted too.

I must have missed that one...oh. You mean post 350? Do votes in quotes count? I didn't see an unvote before that. If it did count then The VC would look like this...

If they don't, then I died because jmar's vote would be a hammer, I believe.

... which seems a good enough reason for me to do this.

Vote: jmar

Reason: You tried to hammer me! And might've succeeded!

[Peers]

I do not understand your motivation for posting this. If it is to encourage me to unvote, it has failed.

It was more like saying "I can't encourage you to unvote, and I just want to make sure you realize I feel nothing I do can make you unvote." Making sure we're both on the same page, as it were.

Other possible reason? Townie trying to break the game by having those of the non-putty sort among us speculate over the possibility of a non-vanilla game. I don't find your original statement damning in the least, but I don't like your explanation for your current claim.

... okay, I failed to think about that possibility. But let's face it... we're all here to play. While some of us might be asshats (and given how I've been acting, I count myself in that number), none of us want to totally ruin the game. Myself included. If I wanted to break games and annoying people, I'd go hack Halo 3 games or something.

As for not liking my explanation for my current claim... if you don't like "It's the truth", well, you won't be happy until I'm dead and the truth is proven. Unfortunately, I'm not willing to off myself to prove it.

[Peers]

Actually, Jmar wouldn't have killed you. When originality put you at L-1, dybeck unvoted. You're still alive regardless of whether Avalon's unvote counts or not.

Ah. I missed an unvote in there somewhere.

In which case, that was an OMGUS vote on jmar, 'cause of the two people voting for me, I like him least.

[Peers]

Unright still deserves closer scrutiny, but for today,

vote: Peers

.

Lynch all Liars vote.

What happened to Lynch All Liars?

Lynch all Liars is a way to prevent people from gambiting in the future, pretty much in the same way you wanted to lynch Avalon to get rid of the jokewagon. However, these LAL lynches often result in mislynches, and LAL is by no means a viable strategy.

*sigh* Once more, I didn't lie.

You say "what possible reason could I have for saying what you did..." then say you were trying to confuse the Mafia. That's assuming your town. For all I know, you're scum, in which case wouldn't it be completely plausible to say you were trying to confuse the town? Your logic makes no sense.

We get into WIFOM territory there, then. Why would I -want- to say "Oh, but it makes sense if I'm Mafia", especially when my defense is that I'm town? And if I was scum trying to confuse the town... boy, that plan worked me right up to L-1 and might very well get me there again and further, huh?

[Peers]

The only way there could be a dybeck-Peers connection is if he's town and fell under the "Peers is scum" spell that pervaded the thread for a while.

If there was a scum-partnership between us, then he took a heck of a risk voting for me back when I was in L-2/L-1 territory. How many games are there where scum bus other scum on day one?

... that's not a rhetorical question, BTW. An answer would be nice...

[Peers]

Because he doesn't want to vote jmar, and there's no chance of being able to lynch anyone else.

(Note: Not me trying to put words in his mouth, that just seems like the logical answer to me... the field has basicly been narrowed down to two, and he doesn't want to vote for one of them.)

[Peers]

and there's no chance of being able to lynch anyone else.

Why do you say so? Also even if there is no no apparent chance to lynch someone else, if one believes that someone else is a better target for lynching, why not try anyway?

For the same reason you're better off not voting for a third-party candidate in the American Presidential Elections. You have no chance of success, your vote is mainly to say "I support voting for this guy in the future, where I hope there will be more support for him, and eventually we can get him in."

Right now, unless there's a huge swing towards someone else, either jmar or myself is being lynched. I don't think this town is stupid enough to do a day-one no-lynch, and there isn't enough evidence or arguments for the town to go after anyone else... at least, not to the point of getting enough votes. A third candidate for lynching will only take votes away from the other two, and most likely cause a no-lynch.

I'm not saying "Don't vote for someone else". I'm just saying, unless you really think you have a strong enough argument to get people to unvote from jmar and me, it's not going to do the town any good. Personally? i'd love to hear a good case that gets people to unvote from me, but it's day one... I don't think there's enough action out there to make such a case. If someone can prove me wrong, please do.

[Peers]

Hrm. Missed that rule. Thanks for brining it to my attention... and tht pretty much invalidates my last few days of thinking...

[Peers]

I said I wasn't putting words in your mouth, I was just saying how it appeared to me.

[Peers]

Still waiting for my question to be answered, but thank you, PlaysWithSquirrels, for your continuing lack of adding anything valuable to this game.

Best I can find without rereading the whole thread is in post 357 he seems to take offense to your voting for me over the whole "theoretical power role" thing. So it looks like the bandwagon against you may be due to a playstyle difference more than anything else due to the lack of anyone actually doing anything yet.

[Peers]

So basically, you don't actually have a case PlaysWith?

It's as good a case as the one against me, honestly.

[Peers]

I'll just cruise along until Peers decides to stop speaking for me.

Peers answered it better than I would've.

Trying to reconcile these two posts... first he wants me to stop speaking for him (after I've stated I'm not speaking for him), and then he says I spoke for him better than he could... Do you really think I'm scum, or am I just too good at getting into your head and knowing what you're thinking, and you need to defend yourself?

[Peers]

Reasons to vote for Jmar:

Sept 28, 12:24 pm: Yeah its mostly random. I didn't mean much by it- I know he's joking but I felt like tossin in a random vote.

Oct 2, 9:12 pm: We're four pages in and we've gotten nowhere. I for one am not happy with a random lynch- in my opinion it shouldn't even be up for discussion.

There's our first contradiction... he votes randomly but does not want a random lynch. So then... why vote randomly?


Oct 5, 7:50pm: Care to elaborate why you find that scummy? Because it seems hypothetical to me. I understand your points guys but i think it's a bit of a leap to say Peers just power claimed.

Oct 11, 4:26 pm: Can somebody explain to me why originality's last move was so scummy? I'm not following you guys on this one. Seems minor at best to me.

He constantly seems unable to see why other people are scummy until others explain to him... the classic sign of a scum who wants to vote for someone but wants to do it in a way that he can claim innocence. "Yes, I voted to lynch townie X, but it's because Player Y explained why we should! Y must be scum! Not me!"


Oct 18, 3:18 pm: Also, isn't OMGUS voting this late in a scum tell? I'm not the most experienced here, so I can't be sure.

This on the same day of the game in which he, himself, OMGUS'd PlaysWithSquirrels. Coupled with another claim that he's not the most experienced here, so he can't be at fault for his choices.


Oct 19, 9:12 am: Is it just me or does dybeck voting for Peers, then unvoting and voting for Unright two posts later highly suspicious? One of his reasons was "I don't want this day to end just yet," but most of the Peers bandwagon unvoted. And Unright didn't even say anything to change dybecks mind, he just said he's going with his gut. IDK, seems like it could be a dybeck-Peers connection to me.

I guess having someone unvote for you is a scumtell now... he saw several people unvoting me and pulled a 'connection' out of thin air to try and convince people to get back on the bandwagon.

Jmar, I think you're scummy, especially from how you try to defend yourself with "I'm not the most experienced here" and a constant inability to see how other people are scummy until it's 'explained' to you. But at the end of the day... it doesn't matter which of us die. Remember saying this?

Oct 25, 11:54 pm: If I do get lynched, you're going down the next day easily once everyone sees I'm town, so I guess that's good.

You better believe it works both ways. When I die my death, my noble death, my Putty death... you'd better believe you're going down the next day. And no claims of "But I only voted for him after originality explained why I should" or "But I thought that OMGUS was a scumtell! I didn't know!" will save you.

[Peers]

I was willing to let the war with Flameaxe slide, but I'm seriously concerned with the fatalist attempt to frame JMar. The deadline is Nov 6th, which is 8 days away, yet Peers is pushing the falsity that he and JMar are the only lynchable candidates. Then he tries to send JMar up the river not because he really believes that JMar is scum, but just because he wants someone else to die instead of him.

I can't ignore such a scummy play.

unvote

vote: Peers

Okay, in an attempt to get you to change your vote:

Who other than myself and jmar is lynchable at this point? Given that we would need four votes on someone who already has one vote, or five votes on someone who has no votes, to beat either one of us... who has caused enough discussion to get that many votes? I'll wait while you think about it... there isn't one I can see. Maybe you've discussed someone I missed, but I looked at everyone and all the votes, and nobody else has come close to being able to get that many votes.

And let's say you're in a situation where two people are being lynched: one you know 100% is town. One you don't know. Might be 50%, might be 75%, might be 0%. Which one do you try to get lynched? You'd try to get the 'maybe' lynched so the 100% Town can survive.

I know I'm town. Jmar, I'm not sure, but I'm a lot more sure of myself than of him. I'm doing what anyone else in the same situation would do. How many of you are comfortable voting for someone who is just doing exactly what you would do in the same situation?

Give me another target, one who's done more to get attention than jmar, and I'll consider your case and I'll consider changing my vote. But unless you've got a damn good case on someone and we can be sure they're scum... then I have to protect the player I'm 100% sure is town.

[Peers]

Mirth, you're absolutely right. My job is to hunt scum. However, how good are you at hunting scum while you're dead? "Your goal isn't to survive" is bull, and you know it. I can't scumhunt dead. Can you?

But instead you're just picking on the most vulnerable player available. Townies will go after the scummiest players, while scum will just go after convenient prey.

You mean, like the guy who only needed one more vote on him to be the lynchee at deadline? Again -- you're doing the same thing I did. That makes you townier than me... how, exactly?

[Peers]

No, I think jmar is scummy, and I've stated my reasons why.

[Peers]

Okay, let's say you're right. What should I do? I've looked at the thread, there's not enough to make a case against anyone else that's any stronger.

[Peers]

Now I realize I just listed 7 of 12 players...but you have all raised my suspicion in one way or another. I am devoting more time to this game from here on out.

That was on Friday, it's now very early Thursday.

Prod: killerbob

?

[Peers]

At least I know there's a few sane people out there... or at least scum who know I'm town and hope to look innocent by supporting me...

Hrm. There's an idea.

[Peers]

Hrm. Tell you what, as an experiment...

Unvote

Jmar is now at 3 and will not by lynched at deadline. A full two votes (three if you think I'm dishonest enough to re-vote him despite the amazingly scummy scent I'll gain) can be taken off me and put elsewhere and I'll still by lynched at deadline.

So, who else do you people think is scum, other than me?

[Peers]

YOU scumhunt, and then (no wai!) you FIND scum! Don't rely on our opinions to form yours. I personally find doing that very scummy.

I found my scum. Maybe this is too complex an idea for you to handle, but I want the town to win. I am, at this point, going to die. What I am trying to do is provide a way for the town to think about who they want to kill next so they can put the remaining time until deadline to use since there won't be one more vote against me, and hopefully we can avoid lynching a townie on the next day. And yet, you find that scummy?

[Peers]

I found my scum too. Complexity is awesome isn't it?

The difference is, you're about to be proven wrong once deadline hits.

[Peers]

Ok. Cause I obviously have every reason to pity you, don't I?

Who said anything about pity?

Anyway, are you going to take this opertunity to think about who else is scum, or are you just going to continue to antagonize me?

[Peers]

Anyway, are you going to take this opertunity to think about who else is scum, or are you just going to continue to antagonize me?

Are you going to come up with more compelling arguments? Or are you going to continue to follow the gut of the guy who thinks you're town, while at the same time feeding us nothing but emotional bullshit?

Who the fuck am I following? I'm not voting for anyone. I'm saying, flat out, okay, I'm lynched when deadline gets here. Unless you think I'm the only scum in the game, you should be looking for the other ones! Christ, what the hell's wrong with you?

[Peers]

Unless you think I'm the only scum in the game, you should be looking for the other ones!

Thanks for claiming Scum

It's like talking to a retarded monkey, only without the benefit of the doubt that sign language to English translation brings.

That's not a claim, that's an acknowledgment that you think I'm scum. You're wrong, of course, but that never factored into your thinking... it would mean you'd need to able to consciously consider the fact you might be wrong and of course, you're never wrong. Or am I putting words in your mouth again when I say you think I'm scum? Am I inferring too much from your vote?

[Peers]

I can't explain why I'm jumping on Unright, because I'm not jumping on anyone.

I unvoted. Never cast a vote. Not voting for anyone.

I made my decision. I'm dead, unless three of you decide I'm not scum, or two of you decide jmar is scum. Neither one of which is going to happen at this point. I just want the town to consider their next step. 'cause right now, my only hope is that you realize if you lynch me, you have nothing to go on to decide who to lynch next (well, other than half the town).

[Peers]

But, didn't you say like two pages ago if you went down I would go down the next day?

My faith in this town to do the right thing has, for some amazingly unfathomable reason, wasted away to nothing.

[Peers]

Doingg something won't help at all either, apparently. I've done the most I can do: I'm letting you guys figure out what to do next. Yet nobody seems interested in doing it.

[Peers]

And instead of looking for more people to lynch, or at least debate if they're scum, you're back to saying I'm anti-town. Wow, that's really doing the town a lot of good there. Maybe someone else would like to take a crack at some theories for day two?

[Peers]

And yet we still spend our time discussing someone who's dead and not who else needs attention.

[Peers]

Would people prefer if if I voted myself? That'd kick in the night phase a few days before deadline, get things moving for the rest of you.

[Peers]

I have a feeling that Avalon's just being a jackass again...

He stopped? I must've missed it.

[Peers]

Aw, c'mon, Flameaxe. I'm obviously not talking about this game... that other thread talked about when there's a two-week wait until deadline, not just a few days. And this isn't hte only game I'm in with the 'half votes at deadline' rule. By the time it gets enough replies for me ot get any info about it, I'll be dead in this game... won't affect my play here at all.

Besides, only way I'd self-hammer here is if you all wanted me to... and it looks like just two of you do, so, you'll have to wait to see my role.

[Peers]

And still no discussion over a) who is scum if I'm scum, or b) who is scum if I'm town.

This town depresses me. And that's just based on the last couple pages, not the ugliness that went down earlier. Surely you people don't think I'm the only scum in the game?

[Peers]

In before prod.

I'd love to hammer Peers already, but sadly I am currently voting for him. Someone hammer him so tomorrow comes quicker, this is accomplishing nothing and he's dead meat tomorrow anyway.

So you don't want to discuss who else might be scum, either?

[Peers]

Mirth has no sense of humor, if you haven't noticed.

Originality, your calling for a hammer kind of sets of some alarm bells in my head, but not too many, as Peers has been getting on my nerves with his bad playing.

I'm not the one ignoring the the last few days of being able to look for possible signs of scuminess in people other than me...

[Peers]

Since I have nothing to lose by alienating my supporters... erm, supporter, with less than a day before deadline... could CES be scum, looking to make himself look innocent when I'm revealed as Town? Could Unright and Mirrth be Scum and setting CES up to look like Scum for supporting me, since they both know I'm Town?

Simply put... remember, when I'm revealed as Town, there are X+1 people in this game who know my alignment: The scum, and myself. So who in this game is acting like they know my alignment... and who's acting like they don't care?

[Peers]

Now Peers, you're being too simplistic there. The only people who actually know your alignment are you and your potential partners. If you're not mafia, then the mafia has no way of knowing your alignment either. Because none of us know how many killing roles are in this game. We won't have any ideas as to number and type of killing role until after night.

Hrm. I stand corrected. The only people who know if I'm Mafia or not are the Mafia (and myself, if I'm not Mafia). It's entirely possible I'm a serial killer, but I have no idea who in the show could fill that role, so it never entered my mind. However, if I am, in fact, Not Mafia, then people who are in the Mafia want me dead regardless of if I'm town, SK, survivor, whatever.

It's also possible (in a game this small?) that I'm a bomb, and kill whoever hammers me -- which would explain why nobody's bothered hammering. Too much risk for too little gain, waiting would get the same job done.

Of course, it's also possible I'm the jester, and I've played you all for saps... but I'm not. Or am I? No, wait, I'm not. Nevermind.

Anyway, even though I won't be dead for another twelve hours or so, I'll write my 'bah' post now: I apologize. I'm the sort of person who is slow to heat up, but one heated, stays hot for a while... and reheats quickly. And the best way to heat me up is to attack me on things that aren't true, or nag over piddling little details (yes, that makes married life an adventure). I got pushed, I got heated, and I played poorly. I've had losses in other games here, but this is the first one where I can only blame myself; I didn't get played, I didn't get tricked, I simply got too hot and burned myself. Mirth is right; lynch the annoying player so they can't distract you from hunting scum. That's what I said, and I stand by it... but I'm able to accept I was the annoying player. Now get ready to go get those scum, 'cause Day 2 will be the day the town takes over.

[Peers]

No, you missunderstand. I said that you said lynch the annoying player. And saying that means that you dont particularly care if a protown player is lynched. It is the non-caring that bothers me, not the annoyingness.

Yes, but regardless of being town or not, it's what I believe. A bad town player (like myself in this game) can distract the town from hunting scum. Look at how many of you have refused to even discuss other people the last week... regardless of if you think I'm scum or not, you'd have to be an idiot to think there's only one scum in the game. It's an entire day lost. And if you didn't lynch me? I'd still be a distraction in day two that could prevent finding scum. Get me out of the way now so you can actually focus on the game. It's what makes sense.

[Peers]

CES's defense of me is slightly less interesting if you believe I'm town... or maybe just interesting in a different way.

[Peers]

Annnnnd I believe I'm dead now, yes?

[Peers]

Wow, I completely missed the fact deadline got extended.

[Peers]

Vote: Originality

No offense, man, but the only way I'm surviving this is by voting for you, and having someone who's voting for me decide to change. I doubt it'll happen, but I'll give people the option.

ultima, you wanna join your buddy Flameaxe in voting originality? Please?