Mini 1774: Formation of America's Mafiascum - Perfect Town W

[itlepip]

Current notes (more for me just to type them up than anything else but feel free to townread me for them if you can follow it)

Cakes -175, -375
nos -102(fake) +380 +417 +458
Window -125(fake) -205(nos read okay, rest bad) -212 (overreacting) -250/1 <- top lynch
FB +126(same) + conftown
Suz +129 -155 -236
Alc -141 -189 (defend BB) -190 (distance) -430 (sinking ship) (cakez alc BB might just be it)
BB - no obvtown, prolly scum -292 -494
Kill +191, +210 +255 obvtown
Peris -311 -391 (not helping)
Shrio -450

Top kills are probably Window and then BB, maybe then Cakez or Alc. Need more townreads, Kill, Fire, Nos and maybe Suz are towncircle.

[itlepip]

Damn it Titus, update the fricken OP. Alright, Cakez and Windows are no longer in my scum circle.

[itlepip]

More shitty catchup post

Pers + BB look bad on page 22
Apparently Kling is in this game, that slot needs to do a whole lot more
552 – I’m thinking about it, Window didn’t soft, I’m generally good at picking those up. Best I can come up with is either just a good player kill or trying to put pressure somewhere. Persi’s post makes him scummy, but I disagree that that is a soft. That may be the reason for the kill.
557 I disagree with but thought process is towny
BB shitpush on Suzune might be a bus but it is certainly bad, need a lynch there. I like Suzune’s reactions, feel fine in town circle.
603 is bad and should be treated as such.
642 is logic I have seen (and sometimes used) against kling, it doesn’t work and is probably scummy tbh.
680-hmm
I have a shitty gut townlean on Kling for 713 but I also hate half that post so that’s not joining the town circle
Holy shit Dierfire is in the game and actually has content, why the hell is he so aggressively null ugh.
Kling might be scum just for how bad 726 is.
Shitty vote hopping for a page a half, reread a bit of dierfire and not the biggest fan.
Kling’s logic is uniformly bad, completely out of townbloc 855 is still bad
866 doesn’t make any sense,

(ninja, yeah I realized when I got to the flip, I read the OP and it said 13 alive so I was super annoyed about that).

[itlepip]

VOTE: BB I'm 100% willing to move to persi though.

[itlepip]

beeboy is BB in all of my posts ftr.

[itlepip]

VOTE: bboy

[itlepip]

I'm pretty sure my reads are right though

[itlepip]

How about scummy people?

[itlepip]

Can someone explain to me why null people are scummier than scummy people?

[itlepip]

(also kill is obv town ftr)

[itlepip]

Nosferatu's original vote on persivul was bad and seemed really faked. I also don't like how he is nitpicking but not actually following up on anything; take his comment on cakez for example. He's coasting along and if he doesn't start producing good content soon people should really consider applying more pressure to him.

Bro totally original my dearest bro :thumbsuplad:

Firebringer feels a bit eh to me right now, my partner thinks he's scum however I'm not yet convinced as I know firebringer to be a more humorous, less die-hard type of player.

Bro totally original my dearest bro :thumbsuplad:

Persivul and suzune seem to be town to me right now however neither of those reads are particularly strong.

Bro totally original my dearest bro :thumbsuplad:

Kill is also not looking good right now. He's throwing various things around as if he's looking to see what may stick and what may not. The way he's just gone and blatantly chainsaw defended us by attacking firebringer doesn't feel right and the fact he's accusing beeboy of various things yet not actually voting/pushing him isn't a good thing either. I am happy with a vote here until for now, may switch back to nos if he doesn't start upping his game soon.
¬wgeurts

Bro totally original my dearest bro :thumbsuplad:

On a serious note this shit is bad. Completely unoriginal read on Nos, three completely unexplained reads, and then a doubtcast my dearest lad. Let me break it down in a way you can understand... How much does a dollar really cost? The question is detrimental, paralyzin' my thou-, oh you actually wanted me to break down the post?

Well, he says I was throwing various things around when I haven't put down a definitive read on someone since I scumread Beeboy, my dearest lad, so there's false accusation number. False accusation number 3 is that he said I blatantly chainsawed this shitlord. To be honest I haven't even looked into you that much, but Fire's tunnel was bad and annoying. I told him to stop because it was spammy and dumb. I didn't really care about his read on you lmfao.

What the fuck do you mean I'm not pushing Beeboy? He's like literally the only motherfucker I am pushing my man?

VOTE: Kill
Forgot that^
¬wgeurts

ye same bro VOTE: Beeboy
thx for reminding me XDDDDDDD

Kill, why aren't you voting beeboy if he's so obviously scum?

i forgot

Hello everyone!
I see that the Mod is treating "Fire" as ambiguous, but actually I usually go by "Dier" so I'll probably just assume that any mention of "Fire" is referring to Firebringer.

I actually like Persivul for Town here--I do think that the Mafia would read the game more thoroughly before casting a vote.
I also don't want to vote for Nosferatu, though. It seems a reasonable thing to do as Town if someone (supposedly) casts the L-1 vote without any notice.

VOTE: BBmolla

I'm suspicious of 114. It feels calculated to me and I would definitely like BBmolla to elaborate.

Null on both ends. Platitudes like calculated or bad play is all null.

Beeboy seems very opportunistic. Doesn't have any definitive scumreads, and blatantly sheep's people on their scumreads after further review of the gamestate.

First off (besides the BBmolla scumread) kill was one of the players who consistently echoed exactly what I would have wanted to say to certain posts which is super towny. Its possible but really hard to replicate that level of town mentality.

Fucking players don't even read posts.

"OH HE WAS BLATANTLY DEFENDING ME." News flash, the world doesn't revolve around you princess. I, at the time, could have given a rat's ass about you're fucking life. Fire was just annoying me with his death tunnel.

If it's fake I'm literally killing myself.

This is a very towny reaction the BS dayvig. Someone who knows that they are playing a solid game getting vigged for absolutely nothing is frustrating, but I'm pretty sure scum would have made a bigger deal of claiming town than kill did. He reacted to a dayvig without immediately omgusing or trying to get towncred by claiming town or some junk like that, which is the purest thing to the extent that anyone who doesn't have kill in their towncircle is just wrong or scum this game.

[itlepip]

Can we actually get some activity? Kling is a slight townlean and has content and will probably be obvious by tomorrow so I don't really like that lynch. Shiro has 0 content but out of the 4 people on her wagon I am townreading exactly 0 of them so in my mind that is never going to be an actual scum lynch.

[itlepip]

Can we actually get some activity? Kling is a slight townlean and has content and will probably be obvious by tomorrow so I don't really like that lynch. Shiro has 0 content but out of the 4 people on her wagon I am townreading exactly 0 of them so in my mind that is never going to be an actual scum lynch.

Those 4 people were all on the D1 scum lynch with your slot.

Well I townread myself so I would have less qualms joining that wagon.

[itlepip]

I will say first off that Beeboy when town generally gives off a really strong town vibe. His scum play isn’t bad at all, and he isn’t obvious or anything, but he doesn’t level as town so if you are dealing with Beeboy and there aren’t those posts which are complaining about something that makes a town player in that situation annoyed or something like that, then there is a good chance that Beeboy is scum.
In my view none of his posts have the strong town mentality that I expect from town Beeboy, so I think he is scum. I’ll try to address some of the higher content posts.

@Beeboy, I don't trust you at all. Shiro can accept you with open arms but I consider you in my top 3 scum right now.

I c then I can vote Cakes without it being a scum claim.

VOTE: Sircakes

He is trying to scum paint rather than scum hunt.

Okay, so at this point in the game Cakez has been under pressure and is starting to look reasonably likely to be lynched. Beeboy notices that Cakez is distancing from him at this point and busses Cakez. “I can vote cakez without it being scum’ is really awkward and I don’t understand why town would ever say that.

@Beeboy, I don't trust you at all. Shiro can accept you with open arms but I consider you in my top 3 scum right now.

I c then I can vote Cakes without it being a scum claim.

VOTE: Sircakes

He is trying to scum paint rather than scum hunt.

And you are just sheeping wagons.
How are you scum hunting?

I have been pressuring Cakes scum for awhile. I tried to pressure Kill earlier before anyone else did so it couldn't have been a sheep.
I know this isn't my top town game but I wouldn't say I am blindly sheeping.

I am also not pulling bs arguments to justify my reads.

I have been pressuring cakez awhile is just lieing. The reason Bboy remembers it that way is because any even slightly negative interaction with your partners feels like bussing even when it for town doesn’t count as ‘putting pressure’.

This is where I am sitting I have no strong town reads.
{beeboy}
{Shiro, Klingoncelt, Firebringer, Alchemist21}
{Suzune, Nosferatu, Dierfire}
{Killthestory, Persivul, Window Attack, BBmolla}
{SirCakez}

Now that he is scumreading actual scum now he creates a readlist and is the first time he is really confident in a scumread this game. Most of his votes were naked with no pressure but now suddenly this is obvious scum that gets its own tier all by itself.

Lol this is bull. You didn't even mention a scumread in me until I voted you. This is definitely scum.

My bad I though you where scum from 101 though.

Read 101 and tell me it actually represents a scumread cause I don’t believe it. Also in the 300 posts between 101 and 438 bboy just happens to never mention that he is scumreading cakez which happens to be the scum lynch that day.

Cakes is at l-2 but 2 people can vote.

Again really laying on thick his scumread on cakez.

If you are implying I am scum you should vote me (imo a scum claim if you legit reread day 1 I am obv town), also that would make your reads 0/2 which I guess is ok since mislynching is playing for your wincon.

.

One of the best ways to tell is something is bussing is whether or not the busser tries to get towncred for the bus. Bboy is calling himself confTown for his d1 play which was mostly naked votes and null questions until he started bussing cakez. Obviously for him the fact that he voted on a scum wagon d1 means that he is confTown which is a scum mentality after a successful bus.

oh beeboy, clearly I was teasing you. Sorry if you missed it.

You are far from obvious town though.

Did you play borderlands 2?

Cakes never gave a good reason for me being scum day 1 for a reason.
He never tried getting me lynched beyond that for a reason.

I hard town read both my buddies when they where under pressure for a reason.

As players we don't bus and it is obv you should know that if you are really critically scum reading me right now.

Point from Bboy, the case from cakez on Bboy was super weak and didn’t make much sense. Saying “I don’t bus” is bad in general and especially bad given that I’ve been scum with Bboy and he counterclaimed me and we had a 1v1 set up. This isn’t factually true.

That is a catch 22. There is a mafia term for what I am looking for but I do not know it. Your line about how scum can have town reads proving I am scum is some kind f bad debating catch. What you said is the truth that it is easy for scum to have town reads, but that is irrelevant to the situation between us.

I had to google what catch 22 was but I learned a new buzz phrase to use when I roll scum like you in this game which is nice.

I never said it proved you where scum you are putting words into my mouth. If you keep writing a narrative to scum paint me you won't get very far which I guess is ok because ou aren't town. It also is relevant because you where defending your reads this game.

Why would you heart be broken? I do not understand.

You said you would need to apologize if I was town because you are being snarky.
I said that would break my heart D=

Again Bboy is really confident that he is town with play that d1 he called himself weak. I don’t think that town think that a scum lynch clears them as much as scum bussing their partners do, so I think this confidence is really scummy.

You may legitimately confuse me. Let's run through our conversation really slow because you are either terribly off track and looking for something to fork or missed the point a long time ago.

-I said that fire was town because scum would not make a risky move like that
-you claimed therefore I thought fire was being risky
-I claimed that it is not what I said. That the play would have been risky for scum.
-you again made the connection between risky townie and risky scum. Which I again refuted.

I didn't make the connection between risky townie and risky scummy.
Not sure if it can be interpreted that way but Fire would have made no risks as scum in that situation.

As a parallels:
-you called me scum.
I teased you and said to keep saying it
-you did
-I told you I was teasing you

>.> I don't know that this has to do with anything >.>
Just because I didn't know you where teasing me doesn't mean you need to rub it in D=

-you claimed I had two bad town reads

Where did I do this?

-I told you at least I had two good town reads and I was sure one of my scum reads was correct
-you said well it is easy for scum to have good town reads
-I said you put me in a nondisupte corner because you were correct but it did not make me scum
-you claimed you were not insinuating that
-but what you said told me you were making that connection, but you seemed offended I made ther connection

I wasn't making the connection but ok.

-you attempted to appeal to my emotions by said I would break your heart
-then attempted to use mets to explain why cakes would never bus
- I said I disagree
- you said you disagree.

I was teasing you, I don't need to appeal to scum's emotions.

On the same page?
Beeboy started it.
I am not fire's neighbor. Otherwise he would not have asked me in the topic about the mail.

Yes I did start it.

this is another spot where I expect bboy to produce something that is just obviously town. His quips are good natures but nothing represents a claer town mentality.

Suzune you are so lucky the last 2 times I tunneled someone exactly like this where they felt genuine but everything they where doing was scummy the person I was tunneling ended up being town.
Fun fact I also had exactly 1 person (town) ego post me to keep pushing, which is also similar here where pers made me feel better about this push.

But really suzune everything in my heart is telling me to push you right now it is just my mind that is holding me back.

giving himself an out for a town Suzune flip

To be fair As long as I keep hitting scum my other reads don't matter

Too many people prefer Shiro.
And anytime the majority agree on something, in mafia, they are WRONG!
Except maybe townreads...thats like 40/60 or something.

We have better shot at people we are like "I am not sure on"

VOTE: Diefire

If we find scum there is literally 1 scum buddy to defend that play right now. That rules doesn't apply right now.

VOTE: Shiro.

content is okay but now for the deadline waffling

VOTE: Kill

My first day 1 read was right

shrugs

VOTE: kling

just to satisfy you people

I'll lynch you Kill.


I am waiting for a shiro lynch imo

Let's lynch Shiro yo

No. Stop being blind beeboy. Can you answer what I said? Cause you didn't by saying ScumPosting.

I told you who I think is scum.

You where literally on the counter wagon to sir cakes.

Why is Klingon scum? I am not convinced right now.

Also Shiro isn't justifying his spot on the kling wagon.

kill is utterly useless and I can PL lynch him.

[/quote]

This is the reaso. I'm not just jumping on any of the deadline wagons is that bboy is super opportunistically jumping between wagons.

[itlepip]

Shiro consider this intent because I will hammer before deadline and get Bboy lynched tomorrow.

[itlepip]

VOTE: Shiro

[itlepip]

Shiro now that you are lynched why is Bboy town?

[itlepip]

Holy shit we can stop NKs!

[itlepip]

I protested quartering ftr.

[itlepip]

Wait protests are 1-shot?

[itlepip]

No lynch is generally mechanically worse than any unconfirmed lynch

[itlepip]

Suzune go over it again because I don't see it.

[itlepip]

Really? We had ranger replace into this?

Ugh. Now I just want to replace out.

It is kinda shitty but my case still stands.

[itlepip]

Also Suzune if giving scum the thing is bad then Alc is definitely on the table, I don't understand how people are town reading him.

[itlepip]

Alc, give a readlist please.

[itlepip]

Still don't understand how that makes Alc town and I think by body of play Alc could easily be mafia here.

[itlepip]

I kinda lean towards Nos being town Suz.

Why don't you sheep me on Bboy and make this game a cakewalk?

I'm not as solid on Alc being scum as I am with Bboy so I'm perfectly fine with trusting you on this one. Though if Alc ends up being scum you doing whatever you just did is going to look really bad the day after. Just making this post as a hedge but I think 9/10 Suzune is town here because claiming inventor when an inventor has already flipped is not something that I would expect scum:Suzune to do since Suzune generally is a really safe player even though 2 inventors are probably different alignments purely by setup spec.

[itlepip]

I believe you on Beeboy (obviously)

Peri and Alc need one, agree mostly with the rest.

[itlepip]

Nobody has said that Kling in off the table, but pushing easy null pushes Peri is incredibly scummy so either make a case as to why Kling is scum that isn't just 'Kling pings me a little' which totally worked well with Shiro or sheep me on Bboy to actually kill scum.

Btw Nos I think that Dier is town because he agrees with my Bboy case.

[itlepip]

but pushing easy null pushes Peri is incredibly scummy so either make a case as to why Kling is scum that isn't just 'Kling pings me a little' which totally worked well with Shiro or sheep me on Bboy to actually kill scum.

Question.

Am I wrong in assuming beeboy was an easy null push? Because my impression of beeboy, both from this game in second-hand accounts and from his gameplay in general across the board, is that he is almost always an easy null push.

He isn't null. In my mind, which I've fully laid out the reasoning for, I am fairly certain that your slot is scum. This doesn't work as a defense because first is your slot, second because you are trying to draw a completely false comparison. Kling hasn't been super town by all measures, but saying that we should lynch Kling cause of weak vote logic d1 as well the fact that Kling's reads d2 stank when both of those things are honestly kinda of null is completely different than Bboy who has played his scum game this game. He has lied about his capacity to bus, made a huge huge deal about his cakez scumread more than anything else he's done this game because he knew it was a bus, and generally just played scummy.

So, do correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this hypocritical?

Nope see above.

For the record: I don't like Persivul's white knight of my slot, nor the sudden turnaround on it. This behavior matches his scum game and not his town game.

His flip on your slot was the towniest thing his slot has done this game, also you can't WK scum.

I don't want to go into it this game, but its your attitude after Fire and Ice, and previous games in the Blitz queue.

Fair enough. But for what it's worth: I hold you to a high standard of play. You're a

good

player. I haven't thought of it this way before consciously, but I think one of the main reasons I've been harsh on your play before is

because

you're a good player, which means whenever you have a failing, it sticks out all the more obviously as being such.

Oh, and the mods still haven't gotten back to me yet (don't think either has logged on since last night), but I'm still catching up today regardless.

Right now, from the posting that I've seen since my entrance: Firebringer is very probably town.

What posts?

Alchemist21 looks town to me, but I don't know his play at all (I think this is our first game together), so I wouldn't know what he's capable of as scum.

Same as above.

Neither Nosferatu nor Dierfire have been particularly alarming, but they also haven't particularly stuck out as being town.
Suzune is alarming me: her posts superficially look town, but they

feel

different from her town play as I remember it. That's sent off alarm bells.

Can you give concrete meta here?

itlepip's hypocrisy and Persivul interaction is also questionable, but Persivul is strongly tripping my scumdar.

So,
{Firebringer}
{Alchemist21}
{Nosferatu, Dierfire}
{Suzune}
{itlepip, Persivul}
Is where I'm at approximately.

I realize Klingoncelt and Killthestory were left out, but that's mainly because I had forgotten about their posting, whereas I hadn't forgotten about Dierfire and Nosferatu.

Kill has been a huge influence on this game, how in the hell did you forget about that slot?

For the record: 1074 does seem to fit my first theory. Suzune, if scum, probably wouldn't bus. But a scumbuddy in the null makes sense, especially itlepip with that explanation. Suzune, if scum, probably would also put a scumbuddy in the top tier. It's not Firebringer, so that leaves {Alchemist21, Persivul}. But, obviously, this is only valid if Suzune is, as I suspect, scum.

[itlepip]

Also how have I improved in your readlist when I didn't join the game until day 2 and you are on page 7?

[itlepip]

Wait what about the Window Attack wagon?

[itlepip]

Ewww peri.

I want to make something absolutely clear here. Fire, Nos, Suzune, and Kill are all confirmed town and unless you get to 3p lylo don't ever ever ever lynch any of them. Those were exactly my towncircle and the fact that Ranger parroted them before Ranger got to my replacement catchup means that they are basically just confirmed. Fire and King are a tier above Nos and Suzune but it shouldn't matter. Ranger ignoring alignments for a second, because ftr Ranger right now is looking at the game through a town perspective, just keep in mind that is reasonably easy for scum to do just on a catchup, wuv woo cause those reads are fucking godlike.

[itlepip]

FTR all of what Ranger just said is what I was saying yesterday.

[itlepip]

(In that I endorse it and at the same time don't townread Ranger for it).

[itlepip]

Oh yeah suzune you give stuff to people that presumably does things which means you're probably an inventor

[itlepip]

Btw if Peri just does another 1 flipflop I'm autovoting.

[itlepip]

it was, but flipping back again is super bad and makes your previous worse. The key is that I don't have any faith that you actually have reads on a slot that I am pretty sure is scum. You jumping around wagons based on how the game is progressing isn't towny.

[itlepip]

it was,

OK.

but flipping back again is super bad and makes your previous worse.

OK, but I haven't given any signals that I'm doing that, so I don't see why you're bringing it up. I know that this isn't distancing, but don't be surprised if Ranger makes that charge.

Why would Ranger accuse you of distancing from herself? If anyone is going to make that accusation it would be me which I'm doing right now. I think you are debating whether or not to try to win in 5p or 3p and switching on your partner depending on which one.

The key is that I don't have any faith that you actually have reads on a slot that I am pretty sure is scum. You jumping around wagons based on how the game is progressing isn't towny.

Wagons are indeed townie. Lynching scum is townie. If I were scum I would have been all over that WA CW.

How could you ever expect me to believe that just making wagons is towny or that you would never have bussed d1...

BTW, you should check your own slot's D1 play. On the WA wagon most of the day, called one cakez post bad and jumped on the wagon. Is that jumping wagons based on how the game is progressing?

I actually didn't read molla posts so I have no idea what you are talking about.

[itlepip]

Alright, was that L-1? If that was the hammer Fire we are going to have words.

[itlepip]

Alright, if Kling isn't hammered then

Hard Softing That Kling Should Not Be The Lynch Today

[itlepip]

VOTE: Kling

[itlepip]

I will explain tomorrow.

[itlepip]

I promise you that Klingon is not going to flip town.

[itlepip]

Full claiming tomorrow, if I get NKed remember my town circle of nos, suz, fire, kill

[itlepip]

if you ever get 1 confirmed town, immediately out because town just wins the game then.

[itlepip]

Someone should prod them.

[itlepip]

Prodding Learned Hand

[itlepip]

VOTE: Peri

[itlepip]

Peri's dead...

[itlepip]

idc

[itlepip]

I don't want to hear it, this game was super hard.