Mini 461 "24" Game Over. Roll Credits

[Yosarian2]

The reason I ordered the switch, OTM, wasn't so much because I found him suspcious, it was more because there wasn't any point in keeping him as crypto if the SIA weren't going to send him any info.

Besides, even if he is scum, I'm not sure if he would send in an order like "attack Jack Bauer" when the SIA's apparently don't trust him (as they wouldn't send him results) and are therefore very likely to watch him. That seems like a huge risk to me.

I don't know. My feelings about Albert are still rather mixed, but yeah, I don't think he's been acting in a very pro-town way lately. Are you suggesting that perhaps we should remove Albert from having any role at all? Or...hmm, let me go back take a look at the liason positions, see if there's somewhere we could put him where he'd be mostly harmless if scum.

[Yosarian2]

Quoting the pm seemed a lot more like a mafia gambit than a town's move. At the time, most players thought of me as town. You didn't choose to reveal the pm until the moment I started attacking you, trying to discredit my arguments. Look at this laughable quote:

(shrug) Like I said, I didn't go back and re-read the discussions I'd had with you until you started acting really, really strange in thread. Early in the game, you were offering stratagy advice I disagreed with, but I didn't think you were looking all that scummy.

There are many patterns and details I've detected in your play that don't add up. Right now, I am far more certain that FA is scum though, and I am holding you accountable to this:

Frankly, while I don't really like the case for FA, at this point if it was the only way to lynch, I'd hammer him if needed in order to avoid losing another lynch.

That's fine, feel free to "hold me" to that. I still don't like the case against FA at all, but yeah, we do need to lynch and at this point I'd lynch almost anyone rather then risk a no-lynch.

[Yosarian2]

The thing is, he

knows

I'm nuts. He should know exactly how I operate after the many games I've been with him. Yet he's hiding that side of him to protect FA most of the time.

UA and I just plain don't get along, but who cares.

I know you act strangly sometimes, sure, but you can't just use that as an excuse to commit whatever scum-tell you want. I've played in a few games with you, but I don't think I've played in a completed game where you were scum as of yet. And from what I've seen, your play this game does not look much like you're pro-town play in other games; for example, that completed newbie game. Your posting style in this game is different, and I don't remember you doing any wierd "gambits" like you've done this game, nor do I remember you ever saying you "knew" someone was town. Correct me if I'm wrong about any of that, but as far as I can see I don't have any specific metagame reason to trust you at this point in time.

[Yosarian2]

Check out most of my newbie games, ongoing games, past games, etc., I am mostly right about my guesses as to who is scum when I am town(not my fault if the town lynches me!)

Why did you reveal where you were sending Jack ?

When did I reveal that, Albert?

[Yosarian2]

Ah, but you see, I didn't actually send him there. If you look at the conversation I had with spambot up a bit in the thread, I actually send him to The Mall during hour 5, not the Museum of Natural history.

That was a plan Kenetic came up with when I called him into my office during hour 5. The idea was, we would say in thread that we were sending him to the Museum of Natural History, while I told him to go to The Mall, across the street from the museum, to keep a low profile and avoid being spotted, and tell him to watch for any bad guys who might go into the Museum looking for him, or who were hanging around in front of the Mall. It was a trap we were setting for the scum.

Unfortunaly, it didn't work. I'm not really sure if I can send complicated orders like that to Jack (all the mod told me was that I could "tell him to move or to kill bad guys or whatever"). And I'm not sure if the scum even really thought I was sending him to the museum; OTM's whole "don't say where you're sending Jack!" line in the thread probably muddied things up a bit.

[Yosarian2]

Quote your conversation with Kinetic.

Sure, I'll quote the relevent parts. It started with this PM:

I've got an idea for a good terrorist trap.

While I was looking at the map, I noticed that there is what seems to be a mall right in the CENTER of DC... If we're sending Jack on wild goose chases, why not send him there?

However, in the thread I'm going to say why not send him to the National Museum of Natural History, which is right across the street. Tell Jack that you are going to drop that false tip to see if the mole in CTU takes the bait and tries to trap him there again. If so, Jack might be able to capture someone or get some kind of tip back to us.

I responded with

Ah...I see what you're saying. Sorry I responded to you in the thread before noticing this PM.

That's not a bad idea, actually. If bad guys, or a scum field agent, or something, try to kill Jack at the Museum of Natural History, we might be able to catch them there, or at least keep them busy. There's lots of roles that help us 'interrogate" captured NPC bad guys, so if Jack does catch anyone, it might very well help.

(which is why I wasn't too hot about Kinetic's idea in my first post after he suggested sending Jack to the museum, and then I changed my mind and supported it; I responded to Kenetic's post in the thread before I saw his PM)

After OTM's post in the thread:

Oh well. With the comments OTM made, it'll probably be incredibly obveous to the scum that I'm trying to set a trap if I say "NO, I'M SENDING JACK TO THE MUSEUM!" while just confusing the town. I'll give it a shot anyway, hopefully the scum will set up a trap at the museum anyway.

Post this:

Well I don't think we can come to a comprehensive decision on what we should do with Jack for the entire game. However, I think we should send him to the Museum right now and see what happens. After that we will know more on what to do later.

Eh...then OTM would respond with a "I JUST TOLD YOU TO NOT SAY WHERE YOU'RE SENDING HIM", it'd get ugly, and I'd probably end up having to give the whole plan away just to keep us from getting completly sidetracked. This way, if I just don't specficially say where I'm sending him, hopefully no one will ask, the scum could assume I'm just sending him to the museum anyway.

And so I just said in thread a rather vauge "Ok, I'm sending Jack out now", in the hopes that the scum would assume I was sending him to the museum and would still fall into the trap.

The last message I sent to Kenetic was:

Ok. This is the message I'm about to send to Pooky.

"Ok. Have Jack Bauer go to the section of "The Mall" that's right across the street from the Smithsonion Natural History Museum. When he gets there, tell him to stay out of sight and watch for any suspicious looking characters hanging around or going into the museum area, as the terrorists might be in the area waiting for him to go into the museum."

Sound good?

And that's what I sent to Pooky.

[Yosarian2]

Never said it would, Off The Mark. Albert was asking me "why did you announce in the thread where you were sening Jack??" and the truth is, I didn't.

[Yosarian2]

(shrug) If it had been a trap, I would have 100% known for sure that Kenetic was scum. I really doubt a scum would have been willing to take that risk.

[Yosarian2]

By the way, OTM, I still want you to answer my other question. Do you think Albert should not be given any role at all? What you you think about Albert lately?

[Yosarian2]

(shrug) If it had been a trap, I would have 100% known for sure that Kenetic was scum. I really doubt a scum would have been willing to take that risk.

So it was worth risking Jack Bauer's life to catch one scum? Your explanation rings false to me.

Considering that the first attack on Jack only took away, what, one point of health out of 6, then one attack agaisnt Jack for one scum really might not be a bad trade for the town. Risky, sure, but risky for the scum too.

Besides, I didn't really think Kenetic was especally scummy to start with.

[Yosarian2]

Well, I haven't actually talked to PJ yet. After I do, I'd be glad to talk to you in my office.

[Yosarian2]

Besides, it dosn't seem fair to make a replacement show up and read 50 pages of thread when we're going to lynch you in the next few real life days, Guardian.

I know you said the same thing to me in our private chat, but I really don't like this; it almost seems like you (or your scum mates) are just hoping that we all say "Ok, let's give Guardian's replacement a chance to read" which would probably mean that we'd either miss the hour 9 deadline or else FA would be lynched instead.

[Yosarian2]

Wow, that feels like a huge reach to me. Scummy!

Eh? It's a reach to wonder about the motives of someone who asks to be replaced right before he's about to be lynched?

[Yosarian2]

Me and Guardian - suspect FA and Yos - we're alive

Um, you didn't start to "suspect" me until AFTER the murder happened. In fact, it's interesting to note that it was right after I started being suspicious of Albert that you suddenly started attacking me, and you've been going way out of your way to try and make everything I say sound scummy since that point.

[Yosarian2]

Of course I'm serious. Your whole argument was that you could WIFOM the kill into saying that me and FA are scummy because the scum killed Xdaamo rather then you or guardian.

Never mind that the whole argument is completly dumb to start with, as there's no WAY the scum would rather kill a field agent or a highly suspected deputy director instead of the FBI agent who was most likely in the middle of an investigation. Never mind that scum often do, in fact, have reason to kill people who want to get them lynched, especally when there's a deadline coming up and they have a chance to daykill someone voting for them. My first point there was just that your argument was flawed anyway, as you had not been saying you were suspicious of me before the kill, recently you had been saying that you thought I was pro-town, so that invalidates that whole half of the argument anyway, at least as far as it deals with me.

My second point, which I honestly only really thought of when I went back to see exactally when you did start attacking me, was that the moment when you recently turned to attacking me in nearly every one of your posts was the point when I started being seriously suspicious of Albert and started to consider not having him in a position at all. That was when you suddenly started attacking me, and have been doing so in nearly every post of yours since, using everyting I say as an excuse to suspect me. It might just be a co-incidence, but between that and the possible link between you and Albert way back in hour zero (when you both showed up late, and you made such a big deal about how that "proved" you were both town), if Albert does come up scum I'll definatly be looking at you next.

[Yosarian2]

So you can't be scum with Albert because hour zero you were arguing that the latecomers are probably all pro-town, and you and he were both latecomers, and you wouldn't have done that if you were scum-partners with him? That's got to be the worst example of a bad WIFOM defense I've seen in a while. Especally as, if you were his scumbuddy, you might be willing to take a risk like that to try to convince us all of his "innocene" so he'd be given a good position.

Anyway, it's nothing I want to persue right now, as up to that point you've seemed fairly pro-town to me other then the early hour zero stuff, but I am noting it as a possible link for the town to look at later if Albert is scum.

[Yosarian2]

This is getting lost in the shuffle guys:

Hour 8 Begins 1:30 AM 7/23, ends 1:30 AM 7/26

We are DEADLINED to lynch in under 8 real life hours if we must lynch by hour 9. Although all these arguments are rather interesting, and will play a part later, but we need to stop with all the distractions and get down to business.

Everyone who does not have a vote on anyone is highly suspicious to me right now. Anyone who doesn't have a vote on either Guardian or FA is slightly suspicious to me right now.

Well, we must lynch by the END of hour 9 to not lose another lynch. Although hour 8 would be better.

[Yosarian2]

O... I thought that we finish the lynch now, then it actually takes place at hour 9. Isn't that how the last lynch took place?

Umm...I think it counts as the hour we actually reach lynch. From the first post:

The town may not lynch if they have lynched within the last 2 "hours"(i.e. if the town lynched in hour "1" they may not lynch again until hour "4")

So, if we had lynched hour 1, it would have happened hour 1, or that rule wouldn't make sense.

[Yosarian2]

Hey, I admitted it was possible we used it as a whacked out WIFOM exercise, but I think that could EASILY backfire and I don't think that's realistic. Do you honestly think that's what was going on? We're back to Occam's razor now.

My general solution to the whole problem of WIFOM is to think "Well, if a scum thought he could get away with doing X, would he want to?" and that way to ignore all the "But a scum wouldn't do something scummy because it would make him look scummy" logical circles. In this case, a scum would want to try to get his partner into a power role by pretending his partner was a "confirmed innocent", IF they thought they could get away with it.

We still should lynch hour 8. We're going to miss an hour at some point.

There, I agree with you 100%.

[Yosarian2]

Ok. Just finished a (long, heh) chat with PJ, want to get a chance to talk to Ibby before the deadline hits.

ibaesha, I'd like to see you in my office

[Yosarian2]

I agree, PJ. Albert looks incredibly scummy. Do you think we have time to get enough votes before the end of hour 8?

[Yosarian2]

FA watched the "brotherhood" and they took no action.

Huh...that's kind of wierd.

FA, you were talking a lot about the brotherhood earlier, but you never really explained why, and I figured you were just roleplaying. We've discussed in thread some scumgroups that might have been involved, based on the terrorist attacks we've seen and such, and I figured those were the most likely suspects. Why the brotherhood?

[Yosarian2]

PJ: It's probably better to lynch during hour 8, I think; but if you get enough votes on Albert before deadline, I could move over to that wagon.

[Yosarian2]

Heh...just for the record, if the deadline is at 1:30 tonight, I will probably be in bed before then, so don't be expecting me to be sitting here at 1:15 running around chasing after people.

[Yosarian2]

we NEED a lynch to preserve our lynches

How? How is a mislynch better than a no lynch, especially when, after supposed mislynch, we can't lynch again for another 4-5 hours (I forget the number right off hand) If you truely are town, we either lynch you, lose a townie, and have 3 lynches left, or not lynch you, and still have three lynches left

Well, no, UA. We have 6 lynches left, at most, because we can only lynch every 3 hours. If we don't lynch by the end of hour 9, we have at most only 5 lynches left. If any wagon, even one on someone who turns out to be a townie, gives us information and lowers the number of suspects, it might be better for our odds then a no-lynch, which is baiscally what we're doing if we don't lynch by the end of hour 9.

[Yosarian2]

Hmm. That's true, PJ. But assuming the scum kill every chance they get is a bit of a assumption; if they hack every time instead, then even if we use all lynches there's still 5 people left when we get off our last lynch at hour 24, and if we don't get the last scum then, or find the bomb before then, we lose.

[Yosarian2]

Anyway, still talking to Ibby over here...if anyone else is going to want to talk to me before deadline, ask soon, heh

[Yosarian2]

That is true. At the time, we considered the possibility that they might have put him into the deputy director position intending to either kill me or lynch me and make him director (in fact, I asked Kenetic to protect me just for hour 4 until I switched them back). However, it's probably at least as likely it was some kind of framing attempt.

[Yosarian2]

Come again? Just want clarification. You're using pronouns ("him") and I'm not sure who you're referring to.

CTD was made the new Deputy Director, and Guardian was made the CIA. But the thing is, if CTD was scum trying to be the new director, I don't see why

he

would be the one switched to Deputy Director... he already would have had quite a bit of power as CIA.

Was it CTD you thought was scum trying to become Director?

(shrug) It seemed possible. Perhaps not likely, but like you said, I had trouble thinking why they switched Guardian, instead of, say, one of the cryptos.

[Yosarian2]

Ok. Ibby said she'll come back before the deadline and vote. I'll most likely be asleep by then, so she might end up being the deciding vote, if isn't decided before then.

[Yosarian2]

I thought a lot of the switches were just chock full of WIFOM goodness. Besides the disrupting of investigations, I didn't read much further into it. And the targets were both Guardian and Yos, and for all we know both or neither are scum. But the messing up of the investigations just made it so that either scum were trying to dodge a bullet, or just make it so there were no confirmed townies. Either would hurt them imo.

Well, note that the scum would have had no way of knowing who CTD was targeting.

[Yosarian2]

Ok. Ibby said she'll come back before the deadline and vote. I'll most likely be asleep by then, so she might end up being the deciding vote, if isn't decided before then.

Yosarian, wtf dude...seriously. Way to defend FA.

...what the hell are you talking about?

[Yosarian2]

Petrom, I understand your disbelief of my statement, but I think the one thing that I can say that would convince you, is that

Yosarian did that very thing

. He trusted Kenetic, and sent Jack EXACTLY where Kenetic told him to, without thinking, without a second opinion, nothing. When I asked Yosarian about this, he simply replied "meh I had a town read of Kenetic at the time". This makes me trust Kenetic more, in exchange for credibility points from Yos.

Um, that's not all I repled, at all. I also explained why I really don't think a scum would be willing to sacricice himself just in order to set up an attack on Jack Bauer. All in all, it seemed really unlikely to me that it was a scum gambit. Would you have thought otherwise?

[Yosarian2]

Yos2, did this happen? You sent Jack where Kinetic asked? What Hour? Was this when Jack was ambushed, or did nothing happen?

Sorry I have to keep asking these questions everybody but me seems to know the answers to, but I don't have a full grasp on everything that's happened yet.

It happened hour 5; Kentic suggested a plan where we might be able to use Jack to catch some bad guys by making the thread think I was going to send him to the Museum of Natural History, while I actually sent Jack to the Mall, across the street, where he could watch and see if any bad guys went. I quoted that part of the PM'd conversation I had with Kenetic back in post 1230.

[Yosarian2]

Look, you trusted Kenetic with information that could have potentially brought us

nothing

. Do you acknowledge that ? Do you understand that if you were NK'd, the town would have traded Jack risking his life, a potential scum, and I'm sure I'm missing something but my fingers are typing faster then my brain is thinking.

Eh...I didn't really think it was that likely the scum could have killed right after they hacked; this was hour 5, remember. If they could kill and hack in the same 4 hour period, they probably already would have killed someone by that point.

Like I said; I thought it was likely he was town, and even if I was wrong about that, I just couldn't see it as being a scum gambit. It wouldn't make any sense as one, anyway.

[Yosarian2]

Albert: It was a good plan, and it might have worked. Was it a risk? Perhaps, but it seemed like a small one at that point; If Kinetic was scum, trying to trick me into sending Jack into a trap would have been an INCREDIBLE risk for him. Especally as, if they wanted to send Jack into a trap, they could apparently hack me and just order him where they wanted; why take such a risk at that point?

Besides, this was right after the scum hackers had managed to screw up both investigations. We weren't really making any progress, and I really felt like we needed to figure out some way to use all of our resources, including Jack. I understand the risk of letting one other person know wher Jack was going, but the risk seemed acceptable at that point in that situation, especally as, yes, my gut was telling me that it did not feel like a set up.

[Yosarian2]

because if any of the latecomers is scum, it would be you

Interesting. Why do you say that?

[Yosarian2]

Ok.

PJ, I would like to see you in my office

[Yosarian2]

That's reasonable, Guardian; of course, it's still assuming that coming into the game means something, which I'm not really sure of.

[Yosarian2]

Well, we only have, like, an hour till deadline.

If Ibby is going to come back, it'd be good to hear from her again, but we don't want to cut it too close here. We def. need to hammer someone.

[Yosarian2]

That being said, if you are signing off, I encourage you to vote FA, since his lynch is better than Albert's imho.

Ummm...if you think FA's lynch is better then Alberts, why are you still voting Albert?

[Yosarian2]

We can't wait until it "is" deadline, Guardian, we have to hammer BEFORE deadline, because there are no hard deadlines this game. If we lynch at 1:31, it'll count as hour 9, and we lose that whole hour.

[Yosarian2]

And who, exactally, do you think "needs to take a stand"?

[Yosarian2]

Um, I've talked a lot about my suspicions, Guardian. At this point, I'd be happy with either you being lynched or Albert being lynched.

And PJ has as well; he basically started the Albert wagon.

[Yosarian2]

Pick one of three, and say why: me, albert, UA.

As if you had a chance to hammer all three. And explain why.

Eh...I'm not entierly sure if I would hammer you or Albert in that case. Probably leaning more towards Albert, as the vibes I've been getting from him are worse and the scum tells more severe, wheras some of the conversations I've had with you have made me doubt your scumminess a bit. Still, I'd honestly be pretty happy either way, as I think either of you are a decent lynch who's likely to be scum.

[Yosarian2]

EST, I think. So, 15 minutes.

[Yosarian2]

What's the count now? FA's at, what, -2?

[Yosarian2]

Well, I'm glad we lynched someone, at least.

Ibby: Yeah, you're right, I never found FA all that suspicious. The case against him just never made much sense, and I didn't really trust the people pushing the case That being said, if he'd been more active I probably would have been willing to defend him harder, heh.

[Yosarian2]

Curious -- haven't you two talked for like... hours and hours upon end? What have you talked about?

All kinds of stuff. PJ has asked the mod a lot of really good questions and found out lots of stuff about the game setup that we had no idea about. Some of it he's posted in the thread, some of it he probably shouldn't. We've talked about stratagy, and how to use roles, and how to find the bomb, and just generally brainstormed about a bunch of different things, along with talking about who was scummy any why.

[Yosarian2]

All kinds of stuff. Boys we like, Interior Decorating, Ways to fix our hair, Feelings, Celebrity Stuff, Talk about you guys behind yalls back, whether or not we should be Bulemic...you know...girl stuff

What?.....I'm tired. I can make fun of you two if I want

And then we had chocolate ice cream!

[Yosarian2]

petroleumjelly42 (1:39:14 AM): you could have braided my hair, btw. =P I had it braided at Thespival
petroleumjelly42 (1:39:25 AM): (since Guardian is talking about doing each others' hair)
ArtherDent (1:39:52 AM): Haha
ArtherDent (1:40:00 AM): I should quote that in thread
petroleumjelly42 (1:39:45 AM): hey! *shakes fist*
ArtherDent (1:40:11 AM): Haha
petroleumjelly42 (1:39:51 AM): well, there are pictures of itin facebook anyhow

[Yosarian2]

Well, crap.

For the record, I don't think PJ is scum here. This does somewhat match what we were discussing last night, although I had thought PJ was going to at least discuss it with me before he did anything drastic.

Like I mentioned, PJ spent a lot of time talking to the mod, and found out a lot of things about the abilites different roles have. Turns out, the field agents actaully have several more useful abilities we'd never noticed. One is the ability tp plant a tracking device on someone, if they're "outside" and he knows where they are, and rather then search some random building, PJ came up with the idea of planting a tracking device on OTM. That way, he would know where OTM was at all times, so if OTM lied, or if OTM was unexpectedly on the scene when Jack was shot, we'd know OTM was scum.

Another ability was the assasination ability, which PJ discovered can target not just NPC's, but also players, if they're in the field and he knows where they are (so, basically only field agents). And I had mentioend to him that, if while tracking OTM, PJ discovered he was lying scum, he should talk to me and we might decide to just have PJ assasinate OTM at that point, especally as with the tracking device PJ would know where he is. Basically, an extra lynch, and the problem is that if we had let OTM know we suspected him and he was scum, he could have done A LOT of damage with those field agent abilites before the hour came around when we could lynch him.

So, I don't think this kill means PJ is scum; however, I wish he'd talked to me first, and I had kind of thought that he would wait for more ironclad evidence of scumminess then just him being in the wrong museum when we knew he was checking out sites in DC.

[Yosarian2]

Yosarian and petromjelly, post your conversation. With that, I'm afraid I will be away for a few days..

Not going to post the whole conversation. First of all, there's stuff there that PJ found out from the mod that we DO NOT want the scum to know, if they don't already. Secondly it's just incredibly long, we were talking for several hours.

However, I can post some relevent parts about the tracking, if you want...

Here's the first relevent part

petroleumjelly42 (12:00:16 AM): I'm changing my action
petroleumjelly42 (12:00:23 AM): from bodyguarding Spambot
petroleumjelly42 (12:00:33 AM): to placing a tracking device on OTM at the MCI Center
ArtherDent (12:00:58 AM): Like I said, I don't know if we could find the bomb by sending in locations at random, although it's worth a shot
ArtherDent (12:00:59 AM): Ah
ArtherDent (12:01:03 AM): Neat
ArtherDent (12:01:06 AM): That works?
petroleumjelly42 (12:00:45 AM): I was talking with Pooks
ArtherDent (12:01:08 AM): `
petroleumjelly42 (12:00:52 AM): how a tracking device works
petroleumjelly42 (12:00:59 AM): is I have to find somebody who is "outside"
petroleumjelly42 (12:01:03 AM): this only includes other field agents
petroleumjelly42 (12:01:06 AM): and NPC's
petroleumjelly42 (12:01:16 AM): I have to find the location they're at
petroleumjelly42 (12:01:26 AM): and then I can place a tracking device on them
ArtherDent (12:01:47 AM): Ok
ArtherDent (12:01:49 AM): That's cool
ArtherDent (12:01:50 AM): Um
petroleumjelly42 (12:01:29 AM): if I am successful
petroleumjelly42 (12:01:33 AM): for the rest of the game
ArtherDent (12:01:56 AM): Which means something else
petroleumjelly42 (12:01:40 AM): I will learn precisely where that person goes

Some removed here, both because it's irrelevent and to stop scum from getting info they shouldn't have.

While continuing to ask the mod about field agent Abilities, PJ figured out there was more to this assassination thing, as well.

petroleumjelly42 (12:02:40 AM): *nods*
petroleumjelly42 (12:02:41 AM): in addition
ArtherDent (12:03:04 AM): First things first
petroleumjelly42 (12:02:51 AM): field agents can make assassination attempts
petroleumjelly42 (12:02:55 AM): which means I could - right now
petroleumjelly42 (12:03:01 AM): walk up to OTM at the MCI Center
petroleumjelly42 (12:03:04 AM): and assassinate him

And the third relevent part came later:

petroleumjelly42 (12:52:41 AM): but yes
petroleumjelly42 (12:53:29 AM): hm
petroleumjelly42 (12:53:36 AM): something has occured to me
petroleumjelly42 (12:53:44 AM): dunno if it's smart, though, but I'll throw it out and think afterwards
petroleumjelly42 (12:53:59 AM): in the event that I find out OTM is lying scum
petroleumjelly42 (12:54:14 AM): oh, actually, no, I already see it not working, but anyways
petroleumjelly42 (12:54:21 AM): anyways. in that event
petroleumjelly42 (12:54:26 AM): I could ask to come into your office
ArtherDent (12:54:57 AM): Uh-huh
petroleumjelly42 (12:54:44 AM): and you can claim to received the info - and I could claim to be protecting you
petroleumjelly42 (12:54:48 AM): but the problem is
ArtherDent (12:55:10 AM): That's true
ArtherDent (12:55:13 AM): Actually
ArtherDent (12:55:17 AM): If you find out OTM is lying scum
ArtherDent (12:55:34 AM): You can let me know in private, and then you can just kill him, right?
petroleumjelly42 (12:55:13 AM): (waits)
petroleumjelly42 (12:55:18 AM): oh. hmm
ArtherDent (12:55:39 AM): That's one way to get an extra lynch
petroleumjelly42 (12:55:29 AM): let me clarify - but yes, I do have that assassination thing
ArtherDent (12:55:59 AM): And you'd know where he was
petroleumjelly42 (12:55:41 AM): I'm gonna ask about success rates first
petroleumjelly42 (12:55:44 AM): well, by tracking
ArtherDent (12:56:06 AM): Good idea
petroleumjelly42 (12:55:46 AM): I'd assume where he was
ArtherDent (12:56:10 AM): Right, exactally
petroleumjelly42 (12:55:52 AM): *I'd assume I'd know
ArtherDent (12:56:40 AM): (nods) I mean, you can only vig field agents, I guess, but it still could be useful
petroleumjelly42 (12:56:26 AM): right, extra lynch
petroleumjelly42 (12:56:58 AM): and we wouldn't want to alert him in-thread
ArtherDent (12:57:26 AM): Right
petroleumjelly42 (12:57:10 AM): because then he could assassinate me, or somebody else, or do something
ArtherDent (12:57:39 AM): Or the scum could kill you, or who knows
petroleumjelly42 (12:57:38 AM): *waits on Pooks*
petroleumjelly42 (1:00:03 AM): okay
petroleumjelly42 (1:00:08 AM): I could actually kill immediately
petroleumjelly42 (1:00:17 AM): so if he went somewhere strange Hour 9
petroleumjelly42 (1:00:20 AM): I could tell Pooks
petroleumjelly42 (1:00:28 AM): "beginning of Hour 9, assassinate OTM at X location"

[Yosarian2]

Damnit OTM was the only person that was guaranteed town in all this mess....goddamnit.

That's what I had thought too.

You thought he was guarenteed town? It was just last page you were perfeclty happy with PJ vigging him.

[Yosarian2]

Just to be safe, it's probably best not to discuss in thread when Ibby's investigation will finish, who it will be about, or who it will be sent to. There's no reason to think the scum will be able to mess it up in any way, but then again there's no reason to risk it either.

[Yosarian2]

I will say that when a crypto gets Ibby's investigation he should drop whatever else he's doing and decrypt that first. We're bascially in lynch or lose here, and we will need that info ASAP.

On another note; we know the scum did some kind of action during hour 3, hour 4, and hour 8. Can we get a list of whatever SIA results we have from those hours? I know Spambot's told us some of his results, but I'm not sure if Albert ever told us any of the results he got.

[Yosarian2]

Heh...actually, looking over some of the things Albert and FA said in thread, that might be because Albert was apparently getting irrelvent duplicate investigations of Xdaamo. Still, I would like to hear from both of you exactly what you got and when.

[Yosarian2]

Just would like to note for everyone who is not paying attention:

We are currently in Hour 10, which means we have less than 72 hours until hour 11, when we can lynch again. It is very important we lynch during hour 11 because we know that scum can kill again in hour 12. We don't know what effect this will have on the vote, but I can only assume it will be negative.

Well, that's an option. We could also wait until after the hour 12 kill and then lynch. With 7 players left, the town has a better chance of winning.

Of course, if we say we're going to do that, there's nothing that says the scum will actually kill, and there's no happily ever after in this game; in this game, a series of no-lynches and no-kills means a town loss once we get to hour 24.

All in all, I'm thinking that an hour 11 lynch might be best, but I'm willing to listen to suggestions.

[Yosarian2]

ibaesha, I would like to see you in my office

[Yosarian2]

Also, ALbert, with that "fake investigation" comment; are you suggesting that Ibeasha and Spambot are scum together, and she faked an innocent on him? That really dosn't seem all that likely to me...

[Yosarian2]

For all we know, petroleumjelly, they might just be taking their precautions for no reason. That's not the point. Ibaesha's promotion just coincides too closely with the assassination.

What "promotion"? She, or the person she replaced, has been a cop all game, except the brief period of time when she was switched after the hacking.

[Yosarian2]

Promotion to sole cop

Oh. Well, if that's your argument, then it's...COMPLETLY idiotic.


This was the logic you're basing your "ibby is scum" thing on, right?

Vote Ibaesha

I think its likely Ibaesha is scum. The mafia withheld their kill for several hours, thinking it would be best to keep one in case they were unable to stop an investigation. After Ibaesha was promoted as the sole investigator, they started making kills, sure that they would no longer need it. Now Ibaesha makes a fake claim, kills guardian, the terrorists assassinate someone else...might be able to frame kenetic for falsifying info...

So...Ibby's scum because "the scum withheld their kill and only started killing after she got promoted". And when I asked you what you meant by "promoted", you said "when she became the sole cop". She "became the sole cop" because the scum killed Xdaamno. So, you're whole argument is "Ibby MUST be scum because the scum didn't start killing until after they had killed".

Yeah. It makes ABSOLTULY no sense at all. Especally as there's only BEEN one scum kill so far this game.

[Yosarian2]

Picture two cops. Picture scum withholding their kill for an emergency.

Then they decide to kill a cop, instead of a crypto or someone important. There's only one cop left, and he's scum.

BUT IBBY'S (or CTD) HAS BEEN THE COP ALL GAME. What "emergency" do you think they were witholding their kill for? If that was their plan, why not do it hour 1? And what was all the garbage about her being "promoted"?

[Yosarian2]

In fact, the more I think about this, the more convinced I get that Ibby must be town. The hacking thing makes little sense otherwise; it seems like it'd mostly only be worthwhile for the scum to hack rather then kill if by doing so they disrupt 2 town investigations.

[Yosarian2]

Actually, now that I think about it, if we had one town investigator and one scum investigator, it woulda looked mighty suspicious if only one of them was changed by the hacking

Yeah, but they could have just killed off the town investigator instead of hacking then, right?

[Yosarian2]

Although, there is the problem with possibly bodyguard protection. Still, all in all, Ibby seems rather pro-town to me at the moment.

[Yosarian2]

(shrug) Well, PJ dosn't really seem like scum to me at the moment, Ibby is probably town, Kinetic seems somewhat pro-town, and spambot can only be scum if he's either scum with Ibby or scum with Kinetic. If either Ibby or Kinetic comes up scum, we can take another look at Spambot then, but for the moment seems unlikely.

So, at the moment, I'm thinking the most likely scumgroup is you, Guardian, and UA. Today, I'd like to lynch either you or Guardian, as UA's the one I'm least sure about out of the three.

[Yosarian2]

Yos, today we are at ly-lo. UA is the one your least sure of ? Then who can be scum with me and guardian besides UA ?

(shrug) I just went through the whole list. I'm not 100% sure of anyone at this point, but I think the 3 of you is the most likely scumgroup. And all the frantic arm-waving, confusing, and is some cases downright false statements you've made in an apperent attempt to distract us from lynching Guardian today just makes me more confident that the two of you are scum together.

[Yosarian2]

Hahaha. I'm going to hold you to that one, Albert.

[Yosarian2]

:eyebrow:

Are you interested in actually defending yourself, by the way, or are you going to continue in the track of hte Guardian "I am town because I say I am town" defense?

[Yosarian2]

Right now, I'd much rather lynch Albert than Guardian, but if Guardian is town and Albert is scum, Guardian would already be dead.

Eh...in general, I'd agree with you that Albert has given off more scum-tells recently then Guardian has; however, I don't think it's possible at this point for Albert to be town and Guardian to be scum; either they're both scum together (which I'd give about a 90% chance of being true), or Albert is misguided town and Guardian is scum, or they're both town (which I find VERY unlikely at this point.) If Albert was scum and Guardian was town, Guardian would be dead by now. So, logically, we should lynch Guardian first.

That said, I need to think about this myself. We have about 49 hours before hour 11 is over. And if we don't lynch, and scum kill we end up with 7 people unless someone is assassinated. The only assassinations that could take place is Albert's or PJ's and I believe that's only if one knows the other's location and can track them. I don't find an assassination likely, so even if we don't lynch before hour 12, we will still be in much the same situation, with one person down and actually a smaller number of people to look at.

Well, we can wait until hour 12 if we want, but I think we really do want to lynch hour 12 at the latest, because if we lynch scum and all goes well, we'll probably want to lynch again hour 15, after your next investigation hopefully is decrypted.

[Yosarian2]

What if everyone on Guardian's bandwagon moves to mine ? Then it would be proven that Guardian is town, right ?

(shrug) If there were 4 votes on you and Guardian didn't hammer you, it would prove that if you are town guardian must not be scum, but it wouldn't do anything to prove that you and Guardian are not scum together.

[Yosarian2]

Albert and I are not scum together, I am not scum, Albert therefore can't be scum... yeah.

Right, Albert can't be scum unless you're scum. Which is why I want to lynch you first. However, if the extent of your argument is "I am not scum", I've not no qualms about doing that.

[Yosarian2]

Yos & others -- what do you want my argument to be? I know the truth, how do you want me to convince you of it? Literally -- we have less than 2 days -- and I need to convince every single other townie that Kinetic is the play. What do you want?

(shrug) I'm honestly not sure what you could do at this point that could change my mind, Guardian; I just can not picture a scum group that does not include you in it. From my point of view, you being town would require that UltimaAvalon, Kinetic, and Spambot are all scum together. While that is theoretically possible, it seems much, much less likely to me then you are scum at this point. I guess if you wanted me to unvote you, you'd have to somehow convince me that a UA, Kinetic, Spambot scumgroup is more likely then any scumgroup containing you in it, and I can't imagine how you would do that.

Also, Ibby and PJ may not be as sure as Albert, and I doubt the scum would be willing to accommodate us, but we could move the wagon to Albert and no hammer would occur, and then move it to PJ and Ibby and no hammer would occur. That would prove Albert-me-PJ-Ibby scum, or all of us as town .

...and advice like that is not helping your case. Are you seriously suggesting that we bring 4 different people all the way up to lynch -1 in a lynch or lose scenerio? Wouldn't that, like, basically guarentee a town loss?

[Yosarian2]

I don't think I understand why you want to move our only SIA guy over to crypto. You really think 3 cryptos and no SIA guys is a good stratagy? What good does that do us?

As for moving PJ over to FBI...I think we should keep him in the field until after the hour 12 kill. After that, perhaps, but as it is, this really sounds like an attempt on your part to either move your scum-buddy Albert over to the FBI, or to move PJ out of the field agent position just in time so you guys can kill Ibby hour 12.

Of course, this is all stuff that's going to take place after you're lynched and been proven to be scum anyway, so I wouldn't count on us taking much of your advice.

[Yosarian2]

Guardian, you can make as many wide and detailed analysises of what "must" be true if you're town as you want, but the fact is, they're all useless so long as it continues to look like it's pretty bloddy unlikely that you are town.

However, I'd certanly like to see how you intend to justify some of your actions in this game. Go ahead and "analyze" yourself if you want.

[Yosarian2]

Umm....unless you're scum, Guardian. Yes, if you were town, then lynching Kentic would be a logical move, but you STILL have not done anything that makes the look more likely to me. In fact, every time you just keep repeating over and over again how you're pro-town without backing it up at all, it just makes you look scummier.

Although, I'm sure if you're scum, then lynching anyone but you and your scumbuddies is a "win-win" for you.

[Yosarian2]

Good game, everyone.

Yeah, like Spambot said, I didn't even know who my scum-buddies were this game, I had to find them by sending out activation e-mails first, and I couldn't even kill until I had found both of them them. So, when Xdaamo announced he was investigating me, I figured I was dead, no way to avoid it at all, until during hour 3 I came up with the idea of getting "hacked".

[Yosarian2]

Yeah...I think the game was actually pretty much balanced towards the town's advantage. Not only couldn't I kill until I had found both my scum partners (which happened hour 6 and hour 8), I couldn't even put them into key positions, or manipulate the vote so someone else would get lynched, or anything. And with all the cop investigations, even with the chance of a few of them being forged; not to mention if any SIA been watching me, they could have seen me trying to activate the other scum.

I'm just lucky no SIA was watching me hour 3; that's when I told the snipers to set up their ambush in FDR park, while trying to set everything up for the hack to work. I don't think I could have explained THAT one away if I'd been seen doing that, heh heh.

[Yosarian2]

lol Yosarian, the bet ?

Hey, I was scum when I said that, therefore I was lying.

[Yosarian2]

(also, if you read carefully, you might notice I never actually agreed to that. )

[Yosarian2]

I remember one classic game, in lynch or lose, IS said "I'm absolutly positive he was scum. In fact, I'd bet my entire reputation as a mafia player on it!" The town lynched the person he wanted, IS (who was actually scum, of course) won the game, and then after that he said "Oh well, I guess I was wrong".