Mini 419: Farkle Mafia (Game Over)

[Thesp]

Whoops! Confirm!

[Thesp]

OMGUS Vote: Nocmen.

[Thesp]

So, do we keep rolling and keep gaining abilities instead of hunting scums?

It's going to sound weird, but I don't like this question. To me, it almost seems like he doesn't want to hunt scum.
I know this question might have been a joke or just a mindless question, but it still looks a bit scummy to me.
Unvote: Thesp. Vote: Dagger

Funny, I thought the

opposite

. I can conceive of something else, though...

dagger, how much have you played mafia?

[Thesp]

You used all 6 dice, so you get to keep going.

[Thesp]

Sorry, back now. Let's roll! I'm going to take bird111's remaining dice. He scored 750, correct?

Original Roll String: 5d6

5 6-Sided Dice: (6, 2, 6, 4, 3) = 21

Mod, any chance you can keep the first post updated with the status of where the dice rolls are?

Thanks.

Also, I'd be good with either a Coron or a Mojo lynch. Not fond of the Nocmen wagon.

[Thesp]

Taking out the 5, four dice remaining, 800 points.

Original Roll String: 4d6

4 6-Sided Dice: (5, 1, 1, 5) = 12

[Thesp]

Taking out the three fives for 500 points, added to the 800 yields a finish of

1300 points

. 1 die remaining. Mojo, you're up.

[Thesp]

Me thinks someone does not exactly grasp the game?

I'm thoroughly confused here as to what you're saying.

[Thesp]

I will put up status in the first post, I am also setting a 2 day maximum before you r turn is skipped. This is not helpful.

Thesp, you don't pick up where someone left off. You roll your dice separate from the opponent. You don't get their points.

Sorry, I'd never heard of Farkel where you couldn't play off of the prior player's roll. I've always known it with what the Wikipedia refers to as "running". Also, I'd rather not have the condescension, Coron. Thanks. Let's try again...

Original Roll String: 6d6

6 6-Sided Dice: (5, 4, 6, 6, 6, 6) = 33

[Thesp]

Keeping the 1, rolling 5 dice, current points - 100

Original Roll String: 5d6

5 6-Sided Dice: (1, 4, 5, 1, 5) = 16

[Thesp]

Keeping the 1, rolling 4 dice, current points - 200

Original Roll String: 4d6

4 6-Sided Dice: (5, 4, 6, 6) = 21

[Thesp]

Keeping the 1, rolling 3 dice, current points - 300

Original Roll String: 3d6

3 6-Sided Dice: (1, 4, 4) = 9

[Thesp]

Presuming we don't need to open with 500 points, I'll take the 5 and stop with

350 points

. Thanks.

[Thesp]

They want to lynch me because I'm doing well in terms of points as far as I can tell.

I am uncertain as to where you are divining this information, and am uncomfortable with its skewed presentation. Here's part of it:

If he wants to pass there's no reason for us to stop him. That is unless you're scum with him.

If his score is low you're more likely to win. You know that you are (whatever alignment you are) and will help you out. The only reason to want others to do well is if you think that they are of similar alignment for some reason or another.

The reasoning here is suspect on two levels. First, let's presume for the sake of discussion that there are three scum remaining. (This line of reasoning is similar to what Adele hints at.) Let's suppose we give advice that is helpful to everyone, and benefits everyone in some way. (You could argue my advice did not in fact do this, my argument is that it will go out similarly to everyone.) If each player is somehow advataged similarly, presumably 7 town have been advantaged, and 3 scum have been advantaged. There are also possible arguments that scum get better advantages for who-knows-what reasons, yet I suspect on the balance the town is benefitted

more

than scum are. Given that, suggesting that we ought to limit our advice giving is extremely suspect to me. Second (and furthermore), suggesting people are scum together based on that reeks to me.

Unvote: Nocmen, Vote: Coron.

Time to get moving.

[Thesp]

Still here, still happy with my vote.

[Thesp]

Because I think you're full of it, and giving suspect reasons for your early attacks.

[Thesp]

I've played Farkle a good bit before (though usually with the variant where you can run off other people's points), so I may have some insight. Take these as you like.

Farkle: General Tips

(There will be nuances and variances to these tips, but I think on the whole they can help everyone maximize their points.)

-

Shoot for 350 points.

You can reasonably make this amount of points most of the time. Also, missing a turn on points is killer.
-

Don't roll 2 or fewer dice.

The odds of scoring points off of them are outweighed by how easily you can lose what you have.
-

Early in your rolls, keep few dice.

You'd like to average 100+ points per die with your first 3 rolls if possible. If you roll a 1 and 2 5's, dump the 5's, you're more likely to get 3-of-a-kinds and other 1's this way. Keep few dice, unless you really want to hold a couple of 1's you just rolled.
-

Score every turn, if possible.

If you've got to take 250, do it. Scoring consistently makes you more likely to win.

I hope this helps. There may be some disagreements on these ideas, but on the whole, I think they'll help. Good luck!

[Thesp]

Here and happy. I don't buy the Nocmen stuff, unless there's something I'm clearly not seeing.

[Thesp]

Original Roll String: 6d6

6 6-Sided Dice: (6, 4, 4, 2, 2, 1) = 19

[Thesp]

Keep the 1, 100 points.

Original Roll String: 5d6

5 6-Sided Dice: (1, 1, 3, 6, 6) = 17

[Thesp]

Keep a 5, 150 points, 4 dice remaining.

Original Roll String: 4d6

4 6-Sided Dice: (4, 1, 1, 6) = 12

[Thesp]

Keep the points, stop with 350.

Next!

(Still happy with Coron vote, will re-look over thread at some point.)

[Thesp]

ThAdmiral, I'd like to hear at least three players you think are more likely to be scum than others. I don't care if you're wrong or not, I want your best guesses.

[Thesp]

It's not my turn, is it? Also, I strongly dislike Coron's defenses of misrepresenting people.

[Thesp]

They want to lynch me because I'm doing well in terms of points as far as I can tell.

He wants to lynch me because I'm winning the Farkle game. Not a particularly strong reason.

The former quote is misleading, and the latter is oversimplified.

[Thesp]

@thesp: my three picks.

1. Cogito ergo scum

Is he really playing this game, or just joking around. All he has done is suggest a coron vote and then try and jump on wagons. If he's not scum then he's not a helpful town regardless and is probably the best first day lynch.

2. Coron

Not much going here, but theres the stats thing, which I didn't like, and then the vote for nocmen which he didn't give a reason for.

3. Dagger

This ones more of a gut feeling, but it also has something to do with how he went from arguing with coron to defending him, sort of.

I like how you're thinking.

[Thesp]

Seol! Yes! Maybe now I'll get to where I care about this game.

I'm intrigued by the idea of Farklefix.

Coron, I know I'm asking what is potentially an impossible question for you to answer correctly, but do you think you'd have the same stance if you didn't have significantly more points thatn everyone else? How about if we were trying to Farklefix for you?

[Thesp]

Coron, I know I'm asking what is potentially an impossible question for you to answer correctly, but do you think you'd have the same stance if you didn't have significantly more points thatn everyone else? How about if we were trying to Farklefix for you?

Yes, yes.
and the point is moot anyway, because I was correct.

The extra part at the end you've added intrigues me.

[Thesp]

Vote count, please. I need to see who I'm going to vote for.

[Thesp]

Original Roll String: 6d6

6 6-Sided Dice: (4, 3, 4, 3, 5, 3) = 22

[Thesp]

I'll stop with 700.

[Thesp]

Secondly, we don't have a deadline any more but we really ought to, y'know,

play mafia

. I'm happy with my vote on Nocmen for now but this feels like a game 80% composed of lurkers who are only here for the Farkle...

QFT. As one of those who is apparently unintentionally lurking, I'm having a hard time really figuring out where to go right now. I find myself not caring a whole lot, which bothers me.

Unvote: Coron, Vote: Nocmen

. I'd still rather see Coron swing, but I'll bandwagon someone where we can get some action.

[Thesp]

Well...damn, im at Ly-1.

Believe me if you want to or not. Im a Vig, I killed Dean last night.

Who's up for a SK lynch?

[Thesp]

I wasn't paying attention when I read my role. After the crash, I went and reread everything I had to not get my roles in each game confused after a week hiatus or so. That's all I can really say to my past thought, poor reading comprehension made me take the chance that did pay out.

That does actually make sense, and if it's a lie, it's a

very

clever one. Furthermore, it only makes sense if you are a vig, not an SK.

unvote.

As uncomfortable as I am with claimed vigs who fire N1 being left alive, I do find your argument here very compelling.

Unvote: Nocmen

. I'd still like for Coron to swing.

[Thesp]

As uncomfortable as I am with claimed vigs who fire N1 being left alive, I do find your argument here very compelling.

Is that because they're likely to be SKs, or as a metagame pressure to stop vigs firing night 0 to weaken vig claims for SKs who fire night 0?

The former. There seems to be an unnatural tendency among players to think that the surest way to pass by as a townie when SK is to claim to be a vig. Regardless, your argument on his claim is top-notch and very compelling.

So now we have to decide who he is to kill tonight, or if indeed that is necessary.

Why?

FOS: ThAdmiral

.

[Thesp]

So now we have to decide who he is to kill tonight, or if indeed that is necessary.

Why?

FOS: ThAdmiral

.

Two reasons:

1. the town can have two lynches

2. if he is a serial killer then he would be working for town anyway.

I would be happy if he didn't hit anyone tonight. We don't have any strong leads on anyone and should really only be looking to go for a kill if there's a cop investigation or something really suspicious in the next few days.

I disagree, I think he should kill as he sees fit, and I don't want him revealing who he will kill.

[Thesp]

That is dangerous because there is still the remote possibility he's not a vig as was claimed.

How else will we find out if he's the Serial Killer or not? Also, why help out the mafia? I bet they'd love to know who he's going to kill. Also, won't the alignment of the lynched play some role in the decision?

[Thesp]

Vote: ThAdmiral

, though I like the votes on Cogito Ergo Scum.

[Thesp]

Vote: ThAdmiral

Reasoning?

Where is everyone gone?

I'm uncomfortable with your approach towards the vig.

[Thesp]

Nocmen, did you try to kill anyone last night?

[Thesp]

As for last night, I chose to take no night action.

Why?

[Thesp]

Happy with my vote. I don't want to see CES use his role in the game again, unless its an endgame situation.

[Thesp]

Ooh, telling people how to use their roles. Isn't that a bit hypocritical?

How? I'm not against telling people how to use their roles, I'm against bad advice, and against certain circumstances.

[Thesp]

If you think like this, there wouldn't be any good reason for a town roleblock to block someone ever. Unless you're 100% sure someone's scum.

I agree. I think the roleblocker is a terrible role for a pro-town player to use (as it's on the whole more likely to harm the town than help them), and should rarely, if ever, be used.

@ thesp: I thought you were against me telling nocmen what to do, such as not to kill anyone last night. (also note I wasn't the only one saying that).

I was against the town guiding someone who is likely either a SK or vigilante. In that particular instance, it makes it much more difficult to distinguish between the two if we force him to kill as we see fit.

Thats lynch -1 CES
Again...

Are you comfortable with that?

[Thesp]

This actually makes a lot of sense. I thought you didn't want the town to lead his actions so the mafia would be able to block him/kill him when they thought he was going to be used against them or something.

That concern is there as well.

Thats lynch -1 CES
Again...

Are you comfortable with that?

Quite comfortable

Why did you state it in the first place?

[Thesp]

Thats lynch -1 CES
Again...

Are you comfortable with that?

Quite comfortable

Why did you state it in the first place?

Is there something wrong with the fact that I stated it? I stated it because I wanted to make sure everyone knew it, I also wanted to show that scum have not finished him off yet, which if he is town, is quite interesting. Cause scum could have easily hammered.

I ask because I'm curious. I find your defensiveness here notable.

[Thesp]

Random Notes, made under the assumption I'm town:
- Coron was killed to incriminate me.

I think you're suffering from CESintrism.

- Kilmenator and/or Thesp is scum. Thesp is trying to set up chain lynches, and this conversation they're having is sketchy. I don't really like Kilmenator's posts today either.

Howso on the chain lynches? I don't see it.

We need to find more things to discuss..

Why not make things to discuss?

[Thesp]

Howso on the chain lynches? I don't see it.

You're trying to link others constantly.

Mafia is a game in which there is a group of people pitted against an ungrouped people. I am indeed looking for links between players. I'm confused as to why you think that is a bad thing. Can you clarify?

[Thesp]

Because:
1) You're sometimes quite stretching in finding links between people.
2) It unhelpful talking about links that make the death of a townie incriminate someone else. It's what the mafia did last night, and it's what you're trying to do to.

1) I disagree that I'm stretching. Sometimes links are tenuous, but scum rarely connect themselves to each other in obvious ways. I use what I can take.
2) I respectfully disagree. Also, how do you know what the mafia were trying to do with their nightkill last night? I'm also intrigued as to where I made these "links that make the death of a townie incriminate someone else" you referred to - can you point them out? You seem to assert I was using them pretty strongly.

[Thesp]

@Thesp: Let me ask you a theoretical question. Would you prefer a CES' lynch or a kilmenator's lynch and why?

Why make it theoretical?

I think right now, it'd probably be kilmenator, but I'm still discerning info right now. Too early to tell - I'm uncertain here.

[Thesp]

If it doesn't offend thesp too much I would like to suggest lynching ces and vigging kilmenator. That should make everyone happy (with the exception of those two).
Or to go one step further lynching ces and if he turns up mafia

not vigging

kilmenator as I doubt they are both scum.

Let me put it this way - I can live with suggestions to the vig (though I think them unwise), though I think it should be clear that the vig do whatever they want. No sense in letting the mafia get a free idea on whether they should block the vig or not (if they have or can get a roleblocker).

I'm leaning against lynching CES right now. I may change my mind on that.

[Thesp]

I don't like this post one bit..

Why, because it's logical?
We seem to be at a standstill and these are our two main targets. I don't want to go through another day without a lynch.

What does the vig have to do with the lynch?

[Thesp]

Alright.

Lynch ces and then vig me if he's not scum.

I would strongly push for a vig no-kill tonight. Someone earlier in the thread compared the vigilante to a "second lynch," but there is one crucial difference. The vig isn't getting the full feedback of the town when he/she makes the kill. This makes a town (or even protown power role) nightkill a disturbingly real possibility.

*sigh*

I'm going to start voting anyone who tries to guide the vig in whatever capacity. It's got to stop. The vig should do whatever the frick they feel like.

If they choose on their own (and are town, which seems quite likely), then their decision is based 100% on town influence. If they go off of suggestions in the thread, there could almost certainly be scum influence in the vig kill, which is bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad. Shut up about the vig and scum-hunt.

(I'm sorry if that comes off unnecessarily strong. I'm trying to make a point, and mean nothing personal about it.)

I'm ready to lurker-hunt, I have a strong feeling our scum may be hiding.

Where's kilmenator?

[Thesp]

Meh... during the day, everyone is a "town influence" (including the mafia). No offense, but a vigilante's decision will always be based on what is said in discussion.

I don't understand what you're saying with the first sentence. The second sentence is true, but the decision wouldn't be based on directed guidance. (There's an argument to be made against a vig who ignores the advice given by town that could be used to pressure them into bad vigs. I'm trying to pre-empt such pressure.) I don't buy this deflection you're trying.

FOS: Mokina.

I'd love to see

who you think is scum

, not

who you think should or shouldn't be killed

.

Also, I agree that the vig should not use their kill unless they are pretty positive they are hitting scum because they are just as likely to hit a pro-town power role, and some roles have information that could be helpful to the town.

Unvote, Vote: kilmenator.

I think I can rule out myself and probably kilmenator now though, for obvious reasons.

Can you outline these obvious reasons (re: kilmenator) for those of whom it's not evident?

[Thesp]

You directed the vig. It looked scummy to me. You also seemed really awkward around the CES bandwagon.

[Thesp]

I shouldn't have hit post so soon. I also can't shake the feeling that you're happy CES didn't get lynched, and you want the credit for distancing. I'm really not comfortable with how you've gone about today, and it sure feels like it would make sense for mafia to act as you have.

[Thesp]

I set it this way so everyone DOES. It's unfair if you, for instance, get two rolls before someone else gets just one. That's not how this game is played.

That's sort of sad, 'cause it looks like I won't get a roll.

Does not make sense.
#1 all game I have pushed for a CES lynch, if I recall correctly, I think I started the push altogether. How was I awkward around the CES wagon?
#2 what would lead you to believe that I am happy CES was not lynched. Was I not voting for him at days end? Is it my fault that he was not lynched? No, it was those not voting him.
#3 How does it make sense for mafia to act as I have, could you please elaborate?
#4 I did not direct the vig any more than anyone else did, seems to me that you are reaching to make a case against someone...
#5 If you think I am distancing CES, then wouldn't it stand to reason that CES is scum too? And therefore, shouldnt you be voting CES, the scum with the most votes? Your argument that I am distancing scum with CES does not hold water, I went after CES, I am the one who outlined a case against him, I am the one hunting scum, and not just nitpicking what people say and randomly calling people out.
#6 Why is it that you are calling me out and putting pressure on me for lurking (which I wasnt) and for directing the vig, and yet, there are others doing far worse and yet you continue to push for me. Not Logical...

1 & 2) It's more recent activity which looks awkward to me, notably reminding everyone that CES is at lynch -1. It seems insignificant, but I find scum do it more often than town, especially when their partners are the possible lynchee. This is why I thought there might be a tie between the two of you. I've looked over your posts, and I'm beginning to suspect the opposite - you're scum and CES is an easy lynch.
3) You've sat on the wagon without pushing harder for it, and sitting around hoping he'd be lynched. Mafia tend to do this. You're not working or helping on anything else unless directly pulled into the conversation. That's consistent with how scum tend to act.
4) You were the first to direct the vig

immediately after I said, in big bold letters, "I'm going to start voting anyone who tries to guide the vig in whatever capacity. It's got to stop. The vig should do whatever the frick they feel like." I outlined reasons why I thought directing the vig was anti-town. Mokina read this and had rational discourse with me about it. You read this and directed the vig.
5) Possibly, but I'm more concerned with you, and I'm not sure it was distancing, and thought I'd get better reaction out of you, and if I voted him CES might be lynched before I get the info I wanted. Now I've gotten that reaction/info, and I'm beginning to think it's

not

distancing - I think you're scum and he's not.
6) I agree that others are lurking as well and need to be alerted - why is it that I can't call you on it? You're clearly here and can participate.
7) Happy with my vote on kilmenator. I think she's scum trying to push an easy wagon.

Mod: Request prods on all people who haven't posted in the last 96 hours (though the rules suggest 48 hours!):
Seol
Cogito Ergo Scum
Nocmen
Bertrand

Thanks. I suspect that Seol may need to be replaced.

[Thesp]

My apologies for my absence here - I just want to get a quick word in saying I'm back after Thespival. I'll catch up tomorrow.

[Thesp]

No matter who the cop is, they should take into account the possibility of sanity issues. CES's reasoning makes a lot of sense, admittedly. Pointing it out would be very protown if he wasn't expecting a roleclaim.

Except he is. He wants the entire thread to know the cop's identity, and that's a rather scummy motive.

FoS: CES

Thanks for outing yourself as kilmenator's partner.

Why the frick would CES want the

whole thread

to know the cop's identity?

Wouldn't that key in the doctor to who the cop is? That, it seems to me, would be

bad

for scum. Now, I am in no way suggesting the cop should out themselves or drop hints or anything at this point (for all we know, the scum have a roleblocker, see prior argument re: directing the vig). Yet it seems the manner in which CES did it is decidedly

not

more likely to come from scum than town - note that he asked only one person, and even gave them an out and said they didn't have to answer. (Besides, scum hunt for cops at night with their buddies, not during the day, as they

don't

want the town to know who the cop is.) This attack is weak, opportunistic, and merely posing as scum-hunting. (I also thought the sanity-issues line was a pre-emptive attack on a power role, which is also scummy.)

Unvote: kilmenator, Vote: Mokina.

I'd vote kilmenator to avoid a no-lynch, but I'm more certain of Mokina.

I am 1000% against a CES lynch today.

[Thesp]

The problem thesp in the way that CES did all that was the way he basically said the cop would have a guilty on him. For a pro-town player, that doesnt seem very good.

This is a reasonable argument/suggestion.

And basically by your submission here, you are stating that you think CES might be trying to gain info on someone to find out if they are the cop to protect them, wouldnt it stand to reason too that he could be scum hunting out the cop to target them tonight?

I don't think CES was trying to find out if someone was cop so he could protect them. I am suggesting that outing the cop

in such a way

would be highly unusual for scum (especially if it turns out they

don't

have a roleblocker), and scum typically hide their guesses on whom the cop might be so that they can privately kill them at night. (Claimed cops draw doc protection way more frequently than unclaimed ones do.) The manner in which he asked ThAdmiral to claim if he was cop didn't feel scummy to me.

On that note, I'd like to ask:

Cogito Ergo Scum, are you a miller?

A simple yes or no will suffice, I don't want to hear any other details of your role, whether you have them or not. I also think all millers should claim.

[Thesp]

The problem thesp in the way that CES did all that was the way he basically said the cop would have a guilty on him. For a pro-town player, that doesnt seem very good.

This is a reasonable argument/suggestion.

Re-reading CES's reaction jut now, it doesn't seem to as strongly indicate that he expected a guilty result on him as I first thought it might, based on your post, kilmenator. I think he's just got a terrible misread on why ThAdmiral was pushing him.

kilmenator, what do you think of Mokina?

[Thesp]

If he is, he'll say. You definitely don't need to ask.

I don't know if he would if I didn't ask. I do, however, want to know.

[Thesp]

CES's response feels genuine to me.

Die Mokina die.

[Thesp]

Why the frick would CES want the whole thread to know the cop's identity? Wouldn't that key in the doctor to who the cop is? That, it seems to me, would be bad for scum.

Quite honestly, the cop should be making his/her own choices about when to stay undercover and when to reveal. I'm slightly bothered by CES's attempts to expose said cop as early as D2, not to mention the suspicious roleblocker claim. The latter doesn't seem like a plausible story in this setup.

On the other hand, there are definitely plenty of mafia who stand to profit from CES's rolefishing.

You think a town roleblocker is unlikely in this setup?

How?

(At least, that's the impression I got from your mention of the "suspicious roleblocker claim", correct me if I'm wrong.)

Also, that last sentence is just plain

weird

to me. ("...there are plenty of mafia who stand to profit"?) I also noted that I think

how

CES asked ThAdmiral about cop-ness is far more likely to have come from town (even if misguided), and you seem to have glossed over that in favor of the "well it's bad for town" route. This bothers me.

Do you think

how

CES asked ThAdmiral about being a cop is

more likely

to come from scum, town, or neither? Why?

Thanks for outing yourself as kilmenator's partner. Die Mokina die.

Nice to know you're not jumping to conclusions. I've noticed you're being very defensive of CES today. Care to comment?

I've been mildly uncomfortable but accepting of the wagon earlier, as it was a reasonable one, but not exciting to me. Seeing how you've approached it bothers me a whole heck of a lot and makes me think more strongly that he's town being strung up by scum exploiting reasonable town.

[Thesp]

I am quite uneasy about CES. On one hand, we have the Roleblocker claim. Whilst I have little-no trouble believing the role itself, I can't help but feel a tad suspicious of the alignment, since I assume that this game is highly role based (especially due to the added Farkle-ness). That being said, it is still possible for a townie roleblocker. I am, however,

very

sceptical about the existence of a Miller Roleblocker...

Who said miller-roleblocker?

FOS: somestrangeflea

.

[Thesp]

Uh, he's claimed Roleblocker, and you asked him if he was a miller...

Uh, he's asserted he's not a miller...

[Thesp]

So? Sometimes Millers aren't told they're Millers. I was just speculating that, IMO, a Roleblocking Miller, who isn't told they're a Miller, is unlikely.

How did you get the impression that he was, in fact, a miller?

[Thesp]

Because you asked him if he was one! I never assumed he was a miller, I'm arguing against there being a miller!

It seems moot, since he said he wasn't. Your comment seemed out of place. I'm just terribly confused as to why you're going down this route.

[Thesp]

He said he wasn't a miller, but that doesn't mean he isn't. Nevertheless, I personally think that the chance of there being a Miller, who doesn't know he's a Miller, who's also a Roleblocker (which, for the purpose of this argument, we'll assume CES is), is quite unlikely.

The point, however, is fairly moo. I was merely thinking out loud about the setup...

Happy with my FOS. We don't have any reason to think he's actually a miller - the initial comment seems like throwaway suspicion rather than useful pondering.

[Thesp]

Done my reread.

CES is as scummy as hell, I'd be very happy with his lynch today. I 100% believe him to be scum. Unvote whoever my predecessor was voting Vote: CES

As to his scumpartner, I can easily see a CES/Thesp scumteam, just the right combination of distancing and defending during Day 1, and I really didn't like his defence of him either. Seems a lot like trying to distract the thread away from CES, and the miller thing seemed like he was setting up a safe-claim for CES. Though I could also see Bertrand as his scum partner as well.

I'm

super

happy with my vote right now.

This has a strong feel of OMGUS, tied in with a regret that CES has not been lynched yet, despite being so close. I'm thoroughly unsure how the miller thing would have been setting up a safe claim for him, when it was designed as a trap question in the first place. (While I think SSF's comment about the Miller-roleblocker was odd and out of place and nonsensical, I agree that a miller-roleblocker here would have been unlikely and I would have voted for him if he asserted such.) I understand that if CES is scum I will have been horribly wrong and I will understandably have suspicion, this feels a lot more like intimidation than scum-hunting.

I am having bad vibes from Thesp during his latest exchange. >_>

What did you think about SSF's comments?

[Thesp]

Thesp, that certainly wasn't OMGUS. I wasn't even aware you were voting for me. I don't regret the fact CES isn't lynched yet either, more time means more discussion for the town to analyse.

The first part of this statement seems genuine.

I can't see how the miller thing could be a trap question, no cop has come out and said they'd investigated CES or anything like that, and if he's scum, cops would get a guilty on him anyway. You were just hoping that CES survived the day and could use the miller excuse as a get out of jail free card for any investigation.

I'm not sure I understand where you're going here. There was some discussion as to whether or not he expected a guilty investigation on him. (I'm still not certain he had that expectation, though another player (was it kilmenator?) thought he did.) I asked if he was a miller, which he denied. I later asserted that if he claimed miller, I would have voted for him, agreeing with SSF (after the fact) that a roleblocker-miller was unlikely.

How is asking CES if he's miller help him survive the day? How likely would he survive the day if he asserts he's a roleblocker-miller, despite not having a claimed investigation on himself? How would that be a get-out-of-jail-free card for CES by asserting miller-ness now, since CES would no longer be investigated if he claims miller (for if he claims miller, he's either scum that shows guilty or town that shows guilty), and can't possibly be let off the hook if he claims not-miller and shows up as scum? I'm really, really confused as to what you're saying here.

Explain how it was intimidation, I was only reporting what I'd read.

It sounds like, "RAWR, I think CES is scum, and Thesp is defending CES, so Thesp is scum too, what does anyone else think about CES?"

Does that help show how it might be intimidation of some sort?

[Thesp]

I can't see how the miller thing could be a trap question, no cop has come out and said they'd investigated CES or anything like that, and if he's scum, cops would get a guilty on him anyway. You were just hoping that CES survived the day and could use the miller excuse as a get out of jail free card for any investigation.

I'm not sure I understand where you're going here. There was some discussion as to whether or not he expected a guilty investigation on him. (I'm still not certain he had that expectation, though another player (was it kilmenator?) thought he did.) I asked if he was a miller, which he denied. I later asserted that if he claimed miller, I would have voted for him, agreeing with SSF (after the fact) that a roleblocker-miller was unlikely.

How is asking CES if he's miller help him survive the day? How likely would he survive the day if he asserts he's a roleblocker-miller, despite not having a claimed investigation on himself? How would that be a get-out-of-jail-free card for CES by asserting miller-ness now, since CES would no longer be investigated if he claims miller (for if he claims miller, he's either scum that shows guilty or town that shows guilty), and can't possibly be let off the hook if he claims not-miller and shows up as scum? I'm really, really confused as to what you're saying here.

The problem is, he replied "Well, if I am, I don't know about it". If a cop investigates him, he can now say, "Well, turns out Thesp was right, I must be a miller." A miller-roleblocker isn't a conventional role, indeed, it would be rather unfair, but it's possible. The town might not want to lynch him because they might be scared of lynching a power role that was unfortunate enough to be a miller as well.

(1) How could I predict his answer?
(2) If a cop claimed a guilty on him, I would lynch him on the spot, and I doubt he'd get much mileage out of any unknown miller claim at that point. I'm not sure what early speculation would do to such a claim.
(3) The manner of his claim seemed very genuine to me. I would have expected scum to say, "Yes, I'm a miller" or "No, I'm not a miller". It seems far more likely for a townie to say, "I don't know, but I don't think I am".

Also note that his assertion that he roleblocked Coron (which doesn't seem doubted right now) doesn't make a lot of sense for scum to have done, given that the scum apparently killed Coron, which would make roleblocking Coron fairly redundant and useless. (There is a scenario in which scum would think roleblocking

and

killing the same person would be useful, but I think this scenario is unlikely, and inefficient.)

Explain how it was intimidation, I was only reporting what I'd read.

It sounds like, "RAWR, I think CES is scum, and Thesp is defending CES, so Thesp is scum too, what does anyone else think about CES?"

Does that help show how it might be intimidation of some sort?

Not quite, it'd be more like "I'm 99% certain that CES is scum, and Thesp is his most likely partner, since his behaviour fits someone who'd be his scumpartner."

I would argue seriously against the assertion that my recent behavior fits a CES-Thesp pairing. Unfortunately, my perspective provides a unique faltering point, in that I could be countering known scum tencdencies. Here's the argument:

Scum rarely openly defend their partners. Ever.

They usually rely on subtle deflections and counterwagons and the like.

Unfortunately, I am aware of this tidbit, and therefore could be knowingly countering this wisdom/tell. At the same time, it doesn't seem like many people are aware of this fact (JordanA24's argument is a perfect example of this.) Therefore, I could (and should) argue that it would be unwise for me to act in a way that many people

think

scum are more likely to act, even though I know scum are in fact less likely to act in this way.

I am stuck in a situation by this argument where I believe you are flat-out wrong on all accounts re: my actions making me a likely scum-partner-pairing with CES, though with the knowledge that it is unlikely my assertion could be believed.

[Thesp]

Scum rarely openly defend their partners. Ever.

They usually rely on subtle deflections and counterwagons and the like.

This is WIFOM, and besides, you didn't defend him all the time, infact, during Day 1, you posted some pretty anti-CES comments as well, you never voted him (I don't think you did anyway, and if you did, you weren't at the end of the day, you weren't voting for anyone.

IT IS ABSOLUTELY ABSURD FOR YOU TO ASSERT THAT THIS IS WIFOM. I AM STATING HOW I PERCEIVE SCUM ACT. IT IS RIDICULOUS TO STATE THAT SAYING,

"X is a scumtell"

IS IN ITSELF WIFOM.

(My apologies for the all-caps, they are reserved for people who improperly invoke WIFOM.)

In fact, let me borrow from a post I've made in a different game, when someone tried this junk:

Let's examine the form of the argument here.

CDB: I think Thesp is more likely to be scum because he exhibits

A

.
Thesp: In my experience, scum are more likely to exhibit

~A

(Not-A), which I have seen

you

doing.
CDB: Thesp, you are using WIFOM, which is scummy.

I think this would be a fair characterization for your attack.

If this is the form for WIFOM

, WIFOM is useless to the point of absurdity. In the first, I am not using

A

as a defense, as I know fully well I could be deliberately countering known or perceived scum tendencies. (I've long thought defenses are largely overrated, much because of this possibility.) In the second, I am using it to attack you, as I believe you are exhibiting tendencies scum frequently exhibit. It is ludicrous to suggest that an attack on you so phrased is WIFOM. Consider the above example, substituting for A, the concept, "is named Thesp". (In my experience, I believe I have been scum less than statistically likely to be scum, so people who are not Thesp are more likely to be scum. Yes, it's a terrible argument, but look where I'm going:)

CDB: I think Thesp is more likely to be scum because he exhibits

being named Thesp

.
Thesp: In my experience, scum are more likely to exhibit

not being named Thesp

, which I have seen

you

doing.
CDB: Thesp, you are using WIFOM, which is scummy.

The form is clearly absurd. (Note that it doesn't terribly matter what

A

is, this is purely for examining whether or not WIFOM is used here.) What you are doing is taking a disagreement over what scum are more actually likely to do, and trying to pin it on me as WIFOM.

It is irresponsible (at best) to suggest that me STATING WHAT I THINK SCUM ACTUALLY DO is WIFOM.

Now, I agree that my actions D1 are consistent with a possible CES-Thesp pair, which is why I asserted it's only my recent behavior which is inconsistent with my understanding of how scum tend to interact. I also understand that I am in a difficult arguing position because I very well could be countering this tell/wisdom (though few people seem to believe it), which I stated as well. It was unclear from your initial argument precisely what you thought indicated I was scum with CES, so I suppose the proper manner of completing the argument would have been to ask you that before my tirade a post before. I'm really not getting at where you're going, and feel like you're hunting someone to lynch rather than hunting scum. I'm super-duper happy with my vote.

[Thesp]

I've got to pack before I fly out. I'll be back Sunday evening. Sorry.

[Thesp]

I swear I'm going to stab almost everyone in this thread.

Now... most of you think actually just Jordan. Are pretty sure about the CES and thesp scum pairing BUT CES if he is scum is taking a backseat and hasnt posted to defend himself from Jordans onslaughts.

A miller role seems very fishy to claim...

Can you explain what you're meaning here? I don't understand a word of it.

[Thesp]

I'm going to be abest from now until Friday night.

I still think CES is our best bet, simply from vibes, but i don't want to vote as I don't know the count.

What do you think of other people?

FOS: bertrand

for trying to keep the spotlight on CES and not exploring other options.

I like dagger's recent post, it feels very townie. I'd like to hear some useful comment out of somestrangeflea, and a response to my earlier question to death_omen.

[Thesp]

I dont think a rash lynch will help us at all, the deadline is drawing closer and we don't have much clue of what step to take next...

I

have a clue as to what step to take next, I just don't have many followers, apparently.

Also, do you think CES would be a rash lynch?

[Thesp]

I dont think a rash lynch will help us at all, the deadline is drawing closer and we don't have much clue of what step to take next...

I

have a clue as to what step to take next, I just don't have many followers, apparently.

Also, do you think CES would be a rash lynch?

CES has acted scummy no one can deny that, he has taken to doing a lot of stupid things, e.g. saying he would post something and it has been over a week now. I'm not taking the factor of him being a scum out completely but speed lynching CES and finding him to be town would be the greatest sin.
People tend to rush to a lynch when a deadline is set and mislynch a town I just want that to not happen to us, as this is a crucial point in the game with 1 mafia and 2 townies down.

Let me ask you a question Thesp: Do you think CES should be todays lynch hands down?

And also share your "next step" with us I would be interested because atm I'm clueless as to see what we should do next.

I don't think CES should be the day's lynch at all, and I'm terribly concerned with some of the people who are on the lynch.

I also think CES should not block tonight.

I think Mokina should be the lynch today. That's the next step.

[Thesp]

I dont think a rash lynch will help us at all, the deadline is drawing closer and we don't have much clue of what step to take next...

I

have a clue as to what step to take next, I just don't have many followers, apparently.

Also, do you think CES would be a rash lynch?

CES has acted scummy no one can deny that, he has taken to doing a lot of stupid things, e.g. saying he would post something and it has been over a week now. I'm not taking the factor of him being a scum out completely but speed lynching CES and finding him to be town would be the greatest sin.
People tend to rush to a lynch when a deadline is set and mislynch a town I just want that to not happen to us, as this is a crucial point in the game with 1 mafia and 2 townies down.

Let me ask you a question Thesp: Do you think CES should be todays lynch hands down?

And also share your "next step" with us I would be interested because atm I'm clueless as to see what we should do next.

I don't think CES should be the day's lynch at all, and I'm terribly concerned with some of the people who are on the lynch.

I also think CES should not block tonight.

I think Mokina should be the lynch today. That's the next step.

I disagree. Mokina shouldn't be the lynch, because Mokina isn't playing!

Oops. You're right. That should be JordanA24, Mokina's equally-scummy heir.

[Thesp]

Also, searching for scumpairs is ridiculous. At least it is until my alignment is revealed.

I've quoted the part of your post that's incorrect.

[Thesp]

My apologies.

Original Roll String: 6d6

6 6-Sided Dice: (6, 3, 5, 3, 3, 4) = 24

[Thesp]

Ive rolled a straight for 1500 points. I'll roll all 6 again.

Original Roll String: 6d6

6 6-Sided Dice: (6, 5, 3, 6, 4, 5) = 29

[Thesp]

I'll keep the 1 for 100 points (I'm at 1600 now) and roll 5.

Original Roll String: 5d6

5 6-Sided Dice: (4, 3, 1, 3, 2) = 13

[Thesp]

I'll keep the two ones and stop at 1800 for my turn. Not bad.

[Thesp]

Mod: Vote Count, please. Also, deadline request, if we don't have a lynch yet.

I can't help but feel like the CES lynch is the "easy way out". I also understand people wanting to get the game moving. I don't get the lack of suspicion of JordanA24.

[Thesp]

Ok, maybe this is stupid, but I think I should claim. So here goes. I am the cop. My sanity is pretty much guaranteed, as I have two innocents, and one person who I investigated was killed and has turned up as innocent. I also have a guilty. Night 0 I investigated Thesp- he was innocent. I chose Thesp because I have played with him before, and found him to be a really good player, so I figured without anything else to go on, I would check him out. If you look back at my posts, I am sure you will see that I thought thesp was town and even when he attacked me called him town. Night 1- I investigated Coron, got innocent. I investigated him because he was the one with the most points. It actually worked out, because scum chose to kill him, and it basically confirmed my sanity. Last night I investigated Death Omen and got a guilty. Actually, he is evil and guilty. I investigated him after rereading, and remember thinking that Seol could be scum, and since he replaced Seol, I investigated him.

The reason I claimed is because it clears some info for the town. 1. I am innocent, 2. Unless Thesp is the godfather or some sort of investigation immune role he is innocent. and 3. that Death Omen is scum.
With seven left, and if we take out one scum today, that leaves us pretty good. That leaves six going into night, and most likely five when we wake. With one scum already down, and if we take the next out, we should be pretty set, maybe 1 or 2 scums left.

So, all that being said. Vote: Death Omen

Sorry to hear I was wrong about you, but glad it wasn't disastrously so.

I'm not seeing any reason to doubt you right now. I'd like to hear from Death Omen right now.

I'd rather not see a lynch until I'm able to post again after everyone's responded.

[Thesp]

Should I even bother farkling?

No. In fact, I specifically think we should

not

Farkle right now - no sense getting roleblocking abilities for scum right now (or on a future night).

Mod: Prod request for all players who have not posted in the last 72 hours.

Thanks.

[Thesp]

Vote: death_omen

. It's probably better to wait on everyone's reactions, but what are the chances of that actually happening?

I think there's no legitimate reason to believe death_omen.

[Thesp]

Hotness. I'm another cop - I got it with the farkling from D2 (I think). I didn't get my ability until today, though. I want to reveal my result, but I think we should massclaim now first - what do you all think?

[Thesp]

Are you a permanent cop or just a one off thing?

I don't think this is a question I should answer.

[Thesp]

Ordered. One person picks the next, and so on. I don't want to do it until everyone weighs in, though.

Mod, can you please prod everyone who hasn't posted today (JordanA24, bertrand)? Thanks.

[Thesp]

Mod, can you please prod our mod?

Also, I think it'd be nifty if people just checked in randomly to show they're around, even if they don't have anything to say.

[Thesp]

Bertrand is modding a game I'm in, and... Well, it's night there. I don't know what's going on with him.

I'll prod Jordan, but... Might take forever and a day to get the replacement.

Thanks, I appreciate any effort put towards this game.

JordanA24, what method do you think would be ideal to claim in? What do you think of my claim? What do you think of ThAdmiral's question?

[Thesp]

I'm here, looking for 4 people to play with.

[Thesp]

Though I'm intrigued as to why you aren't revealing your investigation until we've all massclaimed. Why are you doing that?

Can you give me a compelling reason I

shouldn't

?

[Thesp]

*nudge*

We need to get a move on.

Okay. Claim or die.

[Thesp]

JordanA24, that leaves you.

[Thesp]

Mod:

Please prod all players who haven't posted in the last 72 hours, especially JordanA24. Thanks!

[Thesp]

Dagger seems to fake-plant claims and never says a word about death_omen/Seol/bird1111, the other scumz. I don't think bertrand/Adele is a whole lot better, but Dagger really seems off to me. And JordanA24 is innocent by investigation.

Vote: Dagger.

Die scum die.

[Thesp]

Woohoo!

[Thesp]

Did you ever claim thesp?

I claimed to have an investigation. I'm not claiming any further.

EBWOTP: Actually, why are we giving Admiral a pass here? In order for his protect to fail, someone definitely have to roleblock him and if such is the case, the person who roleblocked him wouldn't be able to kill Kilm.

It is not necessarily the case that a roleblocker cannot kill in the same night. (It's happened in some games before.) I can imagine at least one more plausible scenario where ThAdmiral is telling the truth.

Happy with my vote on Dagger.

[Thesp]

Still a vote left before the day ends.

Could you do a vote count while you're around, pretty please?

[Thesp]

Vote: bertrand

, as I see no reason to distrust my result from yesterday. For what it's worth, I had only received a one-shot investigation, so I'm particularly glad that Bertrand was killed, as I don't have to minorly agonize today as to whether or not Bertrand was bluffing.

JordanA24, feel free to take your time today if you want, as the day won't end until you say it does. Feel free to ask any questions or take your time if you like - you're the decider of how long the day takes.

[Thesp]

I don't think it's Jordan, if it were, I'd be dead.

I'm really, really not sure how you came to this conclusion.

[Thesp]

I don't think it's Jordan, if it were, I'd be dead.

I'm really, really not sure how you came to this conclusion.

I've been thinking even more about this, and it makes

zero

sense.

Suppose JordanA24 is scum. What's the best kill for him? If he's scum, presumably I'm telling the truth (barring an incredibly unlikely scenario at this point). That means killing

me

makes the most sense

because it confirms him - if I show up as town with an investigation on him, it's incredibly unlikely he would be lynched

. Moreover, if he's concerned about the doc protect (which is apprently insignificant anyway), even on a failed kill, a mislynch would win him the game, which is entirely possible with my innocent investigation on him. The only reasonable explanation for him to be scum would be if my one-shot was either naive/insane (which is highly, highly unlikely for one-shot abilities), or that he's a Godfather, in which case my second investigation (which would be most certainly on Bertrand) would show

ThAdmiral

as the only unconfirmed by investigation, and leading to a strong push for

his

lynch.

In no scenario can I imagine how Bertrand would be the one killed at night, regardless of who is scum.

I cannot fathom why you made the declaratory you did.

[Thesp]

Eh? Where did you get this from Thesp? It seemed quite obvious that he was saying he didn't want to hunt scum, just roll the dice instead.

IIRC, his comment appeared to me to be a pointed shot at those who were simply rolling dice and not doing anything else in the game. That seemed very different from not wanting to hunt scum - he was taking a shot at those who were using dice-rolling as an activity excuse.

Why? And why are you saying you'd be happy with lynches this early?

I often mis-read JordanA24 in a similar way to another player - I mis-read his anti-town play as coming from an anti-town role, rather than sub-optimal play. I think I was suspicious of Mojo for his only two content posts to that date, which were the post which I thought he misinterpreted of Dagger, and the bandwagon on Nocmen, which sat uneasily with me.

Hang on, you said in your post, you weren't fond of the Nocmen wagon, yet you didn't take your vote off him. Explain please.

Good question. I don't know. I might not have thought of my vote being on Nocmen or forgotten about it, but I don't know.

Because I think you're full of it, and giving suspect reasons for your early attacks.

Second reason is OK, but the first is an example of lynching the player not the role, never a good thing for the town to do.[/quote]
I didn't think he was full of it

in general as a player

, I thought he was full of it

in this game

, and I thought he was lying.

Why do you need a vote count? Surely you should just vote for who you find scummiest. Asking for a vote count makes it look like you want to bandwagon. I find this statement very scummy.

Actually, it's for the reasons Seol mentioned - with the deadline coming up, where the vote was would matter, and voting for someone with 0 votes would be worse than insignificant.

Bit quick to jump to conclusions, aren't we?

I've noticed a propensity for people to think the ideal fake-claim for SK is Vig. I wanted to see reactions, and I didn't think the N0 kill was pro-town.

Quite a change of tune, why?

Because people weren't getting the message. People starting trying to tell the vig what to do, rather than make suggestions. It was more directed than I was comfortable with, and I wanted to shut it down.

No matter who the cop is, they should take into account the possibility of sanity issues. CES's reasoning makes a lot of sense, admittedly. Pointing it out would be very protown if he wasn't expecting a roleclaim.

Except he is. He wants the entire thread to know the cop's identity, and that's a rather scummy motive.

FoS: CES

Thanks for outing yourself as kilmenator's partner.

Why the frick would CES want the whole thread to know the cop's identity? Wouldn't that key in the doctor to who the cop is? That, it seems to me, would be bad for scum. Now, I am in no way suggesting the cop should out themselves or drop hints or anything at this point (for all we know, the scum have a roleblocker, see prior argument re: directing the vig). Yet it seems the manner in which CES did it is decidedly not more likely to come from scum than town - note that he asked only one person, and even gave them an out and said they didn't have to answer. (Besides, scum hunt for cops at night with their buddies, not during the day, as they don't want the town to know who the cop is.) This attack is weak, opportunistic, and merely posing as scum-hunting. (I also thought the sanity-issues line was a pre-emptive attack on a power role, which is also scummy.)

Unvote: kilmenator, Vote: Mokina. I'd vote kilmenator to avoid a no-lynch, but I'm more certain of Mokina.

I am 1000% against a CES lynch today.

In this post, you seem way too sure that CES is town, and you're basing all your suspicions (and the fact that you wouldn't mind if the cop claimed) on your certainty that he is.

It wasn't so much that - I wasn't comfortable with how he was being approached. I thought the attacks on him were misguided/scummy, and I thought based on his posts he was significantly more likely to be town than those who were attacking him.

And who's the one that's been making links between players all game? This seems horribly hypocritical to me.

It wasn't because of making links - it was based on

how

you made them. Notwithstanding that scum rarely openly defend their partners, you seemed to be throwing suspicion on anyone who would making reasonable statements which suggested CES was town, and that felt like intimidation.

@Thesp: I didn't mean that if Jordan were scum he would have nightkilled me. I mean, if he were scum, he would have just voted me off now and won.

Ah, that makes more sense now.

I will note that there were a lot more questions for me than bertrand, which I suspect is a byproduct of activity. Looks to me like bertrand has been lying low and avoiding the spotlight. I do think this:

You replaced in on Post 17, and yet you're opening post basically said this:

We don't have a really good case on anyone. Though CES is probably our beat lead, I'n not nearly ready for a lynch. We need to find more things to discuss..

CES was the only person you mentioned, this is scummy IMO. During the game, you seem to have been pretty much in the background and hardly ever posting anything big.

...is quite perceptive. Scum here ideally would like to not be associated with the lynch of a townie, yet still see it happen, and his first two posts do this precisely. There were other alternatives, but talking them up may steal the thunder from a CES lynch, and continuing with the general apathy which the town seemed to have would most likely lead to a CES lynch. His play coming in is terribly consistent with how scum would come in.

CES was the only person I thought was the slightest bit scummy, we didn't have much... what did you want me to do? Pretend someone was scummy?

There was no dishonesty in that post.

I disagree entirely that we didn't have much at that point, and if we didn't have much at 17 pages(!), perhaps something ought to be made, which you were reticent to do. Also, "methink he doth protest too much" on "There was no dishonesty in that post". Comments like that more frequently come from someone who think they won't be believed. (I can bring up some textual/literary criticism on that point if need be.)

[Thesp]

Well, you said "We need to find more things to discuss", you've the one who's just replaced in and reread the game, why didn't you bring something up? Why didn't you try to take a more proactive stance towards the game in general?

By doing what? Throwing a random accusation out? I had nothing. I'm just not that confident, I guess.

Perhaps you could have asked questions of people to elicit responses? Even this cursory move would have gotten things going from the status quo.

[Thesp]

Go town.

Before-post-edit: Unless you're actually scum, JordanA24, in which case, you're a turd.

[Thesp]

Nice!

Just a request, can we have a list of Night Choices please!?

And what abilities could be purchased, some info on Farkles, etc.?

[Thesp]

FYI, before anyone comes to me about 'unbalanced', the scum could have gotten those three abilities too. It was just luck that the town got them first.

Yes, but:

Game Setup:
3 Mafia
1 Sane Cop
1 Doc
1 Roleblocker
1 Vig
5 Townies

This was already tilted towards the town's favor. Add to that a statistical likelihood that town would get beneficial abilities, and that the abilities weren't that useful to scum.

Also, how did the scum get past the supposed doc-protection from ThAdmiral to kill kilmenator? (I was worried someone might ponder on that and think I'd actually won a superkill with my farkling!)

[Thesp]

the town may not have won, because I was pretty sure that thesp must have been scum to go along with my investigations so quickly, if I made it through night, I was going to go hard after him. I am sure the town would have won anyway...

At that point, though, no-lynching would be the appropriate play, as it confirms there's a cop who has doctor protection. The cop would announce that he has a result (but doesn't claim who it's on, unless it's a "guilty". Then, we no-lynch, and cop gets another result. continue until cop finds baddie or doc is killed, at which point cop reveals all results. (The reason for not revealing innocent investigations is that the scum's best play is to kill whomever is confirmed innocent by cop investigation, and hope it was the doctor. If you don't tell them who was investigated, they don't get to know.)