Mini 461 "24" Game Over. Roll Credits
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Hmmm...this is an interesting set-up.
Looking at the list of positions, I notice that there are more possible positions avalable then there are players in the game, so we will want to try and figure out which positions are the most important/useful to the town.
First of all, it looks like some of the positions help for the normal mafia "find the bad guys and lynch them" game and win condition, and some seem more useful in the "help Jack Bauer" win condition. We might have to decide which one of those two victory conditions we want to focus on, as we can either win by catching the bad guys or we can win by helping Jack Bauer. My inclination would be that it would probably be best to mostly focus on the "catching the scum" win condition, unless we seem to be in imminent danger of losing or winning due to the "Jack Bauer" win condition, but that's just me; and of course there's some overlap, as catching the scum will help us prevent people from giving Jack Bauer bad intel, and on the other hand watching people try to give Jack Bauer intel might help us find the scum.
Let me re-read the roles in a bit more detail, see if I can figure out which roles are most useful to the town to fill.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Ok, so we have 12 people. We always have to have a Director and a Deputy Director, so that leaves 10 more people we can put into positions here. Like I said, I think our main priority for now should probably be to find the scum, so I'm focusing on that for figuring out what positions to fill.
It sounds like the Counterintellegence Agent is our main cop, so it sounds like we definatly want to keep that position filled. It's defiantly very vulnerable, though, as the identity is known to everyone, and it takes him 4 hours to investigate someone while the scum can kill every 3 hours. So the only way we're going to get any information is if we protect him. And he also has to have at least 1 crypto agent to pass information to; 2 might be better, just so the scum don't know who he sent the information to.
If we want to keep the counterintellegence agent alive, I think we'll need at least 1 "field agent", as field agents can be assigned to do bodyguard duty for another player, and that's the only "doc-like" ability I see on the list, unless I missed somehting. The other "field agent" abilities all sound like they're focused on helping Jack out in the field.
The Signals Intelligence Analysts can intecept communications from any player to the mod, which sounds to me like it's a little bit better then a tracker. We definatly should always have both of those positions filled, I think.
If we've got 2 Signals Intellegence Analysts, and 1 Counterintellegence agent, and if it takes a player a full hour to decrypt messages, and there'll also be messages coming in from Jack in the field, we probably want to keep all 3 crypto positions filled.
So, at the moment, I'm thinking that we will always want to have at least 1 Counterintellegence Agent, 1 field agent, 2 signal intellegence analysts ,and 3 crypto analysts, which makes 7 people out of the 10 we'll have avalable. Those 7 out of our 10 positions seem to me to be the most important and should always be kept filled so long as we have enugh people left alive to fill them, unless we really need to help out Jack Bauer with some other ability. Some of the others sound interesting, as well, like the ability by the FBI lieason to "arrest" a player could be useful.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Actually, now that I take a better look, I think we'll always want an FBI liason, those abilites are just too important, especally as it looks like he might be some kind of information role with that 3rd ability.
The other 4 liasons all sound like they have abilites more designed to help Jack then to help us catch the scum.Pooky wrote:The FBI is able to carry out a variety of operations on domestic soil including,
Arrest,(Can be used on Players)
Release,(Can be used on arrested players)
Information Extraction(Looking at a player's extensive personal history/expenses to figure out if they are likely to be compromised)
Storming Targets,
Wiretapping,I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Actually, he's not; Director and Deputy Director are both manditory, so I think we're both just trying to figure out what's the best use for the other 10 people.ChannelDelibird wrote:CTD, you're missing a position. Deputy Director is one of our essentials.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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On another note, I'm not sure I see how random votes for director are really going to be helpful right now; usually random votes are mostly to try to get a reaction or whatever and I don't see how that really applies here.Eyceking wrote:I refuse to vote Yossarion or whatever on the basis that his name comes from that awful book "Catch-22", so I willVote: Guardianbecause I hope he will guard us.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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They're transparent in their work? I don't know about that, some of that "assasination" ect stuff might let the scum hurt Jack Bower if they're field agents.CrashTextDummie wrote:
Seeing as Field Agents seem to be completely transparent in their work, I don't see any reason to let players do nothing when they could fill positions there instead.Yosarian2 wrote:CTD: Ok; the only big difference between my list and yours is that you are assuming 3 field agents, while I was thinking that 1 or perhaps 2 to protect the counterintellegence agent might be enough.
I agree that we probably don't want people doing nothing, though. I'd be tempted to make someone who seems scummy or lurky/useless Deputy Director, as that's basically the most useless position and it's one we have to fill, and then just have field agenets protect the director so the deputy never takes over. Might be dangerous though.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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You know that 1 hour=3 real life days, right?Guardian wrote: One thing that I think is definitely a good idea, that no one pointed out yet , is that while we do want 3 guys that can decipher the crypto, the director can unassign and reassign positions at any time!!! So we only need the 3 one hour guys for one hour! So, we could have like 4 liasons doing their jobs, and then reassign 3 of them to crypto when their jobs and the person who gets the crypto's jobs are finished!
Every "hour", I'd think that the two Signals Intelligence Analysts would get new info and send it to the crypto guys, and then it will take them another entire "hour" (3 real life days) to decrypt it, by which point they'll get more info.
Although the fact that the director can move people around is a good point...if the crypto guys aren't going to get any info from the signals guys until hour 2, perhaps we could start with just 1 crypto guy to get any info Jack might send us, and have a few extra liasons or whatever doing stuff during hour 1.
So, your suggest is bascially that we put someone "easy to read" as director, and then just lynch them if they start to look scummy? That sounds rather iffy to me. And I'm not sure I really find yougurt easy to read anyway, I usually have an easier time reading people I've played multiple games with before.Also, no one really answered my thoughts about how having an easier to read and more likely to work with the town director is safer. I see myself, YB, UA, and possibly some other people as more likely to do that than Ctd, Yos, and Cdb.
Spambot's post was indeed odd.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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The biggest problem with that line of thinking is that if we give the "newest/worst" people all the most "important" roles, then even if they are town they're more likely to make bad decisions. This is especally true with roles like crypto and the information roles and the director role; who to investigate, when to reveal information, and who to trust with vital roles are not necessarally choices we want our "worst" players to be making.Xdaamno wrote:Yeah, I've noticed a few posts about my first comment on page 1 (I think), and I meant since he didn't give the townie roles out yet, I was accidently confirming myself as town; then added 'I'm kidding' so I don't cause any confusion.
Just finishing reading this, and I strongely disagree with giving the most intelligent player the lead role. I suggest we give it to thenewest/worst, but easiest to read player, so that rather than if they were scum them manipulating us, we come to a group decision and make that player do what we want. It'll be hard for them as scum to work independantly, since they'll be a newbie. It's much safer to make this a group decision than a decision for a single guy. Scum trying to manipulate a weak leader should be rooted out by the more intelligent players here, or the group as a whole.
Similarily, I say we give the intelligent players the roles least useful to the terrorists and most useful to the town so they can't screw us over that bad if they're scum.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Hmm...ok, we might not want just 1 crypto guy on hour 1 then, or else he'll be swamped with information that might take him several hours to decode, if he dosn't get killed before he finishes decoding it all.PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:Modnote: The Lag Time for the Liason Role means that you can't schuffle people in and out of the Liason roles while a certain action is being performed, the Liason has to be alive and be the Liason for as many hours as the lag is in order to complete an action.
Also crypto must be sent directly to the crypto guys, you can't have classified stuff just lying around waiting to be decrypted because it would be incredibly easy for a technically competent scum to change the content of the message. Messages must be transferred directly to a cryptographer.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Oh, of course. What I was talking about with the crypto guys is WHEN to reveal information; for example, if a crypto guy gets an investigative result and finds out someone's a confirmed innocent, when should he tell the town about it, that sort of thing.Xdaamno wrote: We could agree that everyone should relay information EXACTLY as how they recieved it, assuming they're newbies. Scum should be easier to pick out, and if newbies were doing the gambits they'd tend to be less succesful than a pro doing it.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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It's absolutly true we don't want a scum director, that could be a disaster, and if the director starts to look scummy we very well might want to lynch them. Personally, I think we should more worry about voting for someone who during this "pregame" part looks both pro-town and looks like he'd do a good job about director, rather then focus on trying to pick someone "easy to read".Guardian wrote: I don't think newer players are more likely to work with town, just easier to read if they slip up as scum. My sentence was confusing.
I do agree that we need someone competent as director, but again, I greatly fear us getting a very competent scum director who with strategic role assignments wins the game for the scum.
Also, what roles look like they are most likely kill targets? Crypto? Director? Whatever the case is, we don't want to put experienced people there, as it would give scum even more incentive to kill off better town players.
Yos, yes I know 1 hour = 3 life days. Pooky said this in the queue, I got it...
We can start with less crypto because we will probably be getting less crypto info in the beginning; we could have two extra liaisons doing tasks for the first few hours and then switch them to crypto.
And Yos, we may disagree on who is easy to read/not, but what in and of itself is fishy about putting someone easy to read as director and lynching them if they seem scummy? We definitely don't want a scum director, so...
We could start with 2 cryptos during the first hour and then go to 3, but having just 1 for the first hour sounds quite dangerous to me; he'd have big backload of information, and if the scum kill him then we'd lose all of it.
As for kill targets, I'd say the #1 target is usually going to be the "counter-intellegence" cop, especally a cop who's halfway done a 4 hour investigation. The #2 target is probably either the director or a crypto with information. I don't know if that would encourage the scum to kill good players, though, as those are also the people most likely to get field agent bodyguards.
And btw, as I think about it, I agree CTD's idea that we should make suspicious looking players or lurky players into field agents; with the bodyguard thing, we basically want the field agents to be...(cough)...expendable.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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...what?YogurtBandit wrote: I hate those two paragraphs. The first is speculating kill targets, which may mean you are thinking out lud while making it look good. It also has an air of scuminess too it, Theres no doubt about that.
First of all, Guardian just speculated about the exact same thing, and you didn't have a problem with him doing it. The inconsistancy of you ignoring him for saying that and attacking me for saying that is interesting, especally because he was earlier pushing for you as director.
fos:Yogurt, fos:Guardianbecause of a possible connection there.
Anyway, what's wrong with me pointing out who the key targets are? I think it's an important thing to discuss, so the bodyguards know who to protect.
That dosn't make any sense. It looks like the scum probably ARE going to kill when they choose to, we don't seem to have any roles that can stop that, no role-blockers or doctors or anything. The only control we have is WHO the scum kill, because we can have bodyguards protect the key pro-town roles, so that the town can hopefully get investigate results from the cop and trackers without losing that info to nightkills.The last sentence, is basically putting people at death. Of course, it will protect Crptyos and Directors, but still. Expendable? Sounds like an easy death for the terrorists. The last thing we want is for 3 Agents to go down in the first 12 Hours. With Lynches, Mafia kills are 3, and Lynches are 4, So we could have 7 deaths in the first 12 hours. Which could possibly mean horror and terror for CTU. Assign most to Liason, its a role that cant do too much dangeR (aside from NSA)
And I don't see how my suggestion is anti-town. If X is a pro-town person who is considered to be highly scummy and suspicious by the rest of the town, it would be much better for the town if he sacrificed himself to save the cop from a nightkill rather then us eventually lynching him. Sorry if that sounds cold to you, but it's good pro-town stratagy.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Truth.Spambot wrote: With that said, it is EXTREMELY necessary that nobody lurk. Nine days for the equivalent of a normal mafia day isn't very much time, especially for a day 1. It seems like there will be a lot of info coming in and we can't afford to have somebody with an important job slacking or missing deadlines.
Not only is it a matter of 9 RL days per lynch, we might not want to wait until hour 3 to get off the first lynch, because the town might get more lynches if we start lynching in hour 1 or 2. So, everyone start thinking about who looks scummy, because if we could put together the first lynch in the first 3 or 6 days it would be a good thing.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Interesting. Why do you say that? Scum very rarely try to lie and fake cop results, although this setup does raise the risk a bt, because we won't know if it was the cop or the crypto messing with us. Still and all, it'd be a huge risk for either of them to flat out lie about cop results; I'm be more worried about a scum crypto messing with us in more subtle ways.Xdaamno wrote: It's also the role most powerful in the hands of intelligent scum.
I believe it's not the cop who would have that choice, it's the crypto who would decode the info and get the result. And if we get a confirmed innocent, we woudln't necessarally want the crypto to say that right away, because then the confirmed innocent would just get killed. It's better for the town to reveal confirmed innocents as late as possible, either when they would otherwise be lynched or in as close to an endgame situation as is practical, the information is just more useful then.I suggest we once again, give it to a newbie, because scum trying to lie as cop is going to leave some large footprints. There's still the problem ofwhenthe cop reveals information, but this'd really only apply in games where we don't all know who he is.
I was thinking, in fact, that that's something the director's ability to talk in private could be useful for; if a crypto gets a confirmed innocent, he tells the director rather then telling the whole town, that way the information isn't lost unless both the crypto and the director get killed, and it'd make it harder for a scum crypto to hold back information then him just not telling anyone at all.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yeah; based on the mod post, it sounds like counterintellegence agents send their results to cryptos, and it also sounds like they can only send their result to 1 crypto. Which probably means they don't find out if the person they investigated was town or scum, although they should at least know WHO they investigated which should limit the ways in which a scum crypto could lie. It also sounds like a scum counterintellegence agent could intentionally send the crypto bad info, though. And it also sounds like he can only send the info to 1 crypto, instead of multiple cryptos.
So, yeah; I'm going to agree with you here, we probably want the people we trust the most to be cryptos, because they're the ones who are going to get most of our information first.Pooky wrote: Counterintelligence Agent(1)
Counterintelligence is the section that handles internal investigations in order to root out terrorist agents, the Counterintelligence Agent can investigate a player's prior history in order to get a result about his innocence or guilt(by pulling his entire phone records for the past month).
Since the phone records are encrypted, they must be decrypted by a crypto agent.
All investigations take four hours to complete so it's important that you choose wisely who to investigate. Investigations can be interrupted or cancelled by choice or death of agent involved, partial investigations are not saved and must be restarted.(If you begin investigating player X at hour 1, the investigation will be done by the beginning of hour 5 and you can foward the results to a chosen crypto agent at that point. you may not send multiple results to multiple crypto agents).
Beware of putting a terrorist in this position because he is very likely to falsify investigation results!I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Heh. Yes, I'm town.Guardian wrote:Yos, you seem scummy, trying to post a lot and throw around a lot of good ideas to get the nomination. If you are town, though I would like to be director myself, I would be happy with you being director.
Are you town, Yos?
As for the "campaigning for director" thing; well, I always tend to run for "mayor" ish roles when pro-town, because I trust myself more then someone else, if that makes any sense. I can show you some examples if you want. I also always love to try and figure out the best pro-town stratagy of how to use special rules and roles in theme games; I just have a lot of fun doing that.
That being said, I don't really care if I am director or not, so long as whoever does become director is willing to listen to my ideas. I'd like to be, sure, but if you guys for whatever reason distrust me, you should pick someone else; if nothing else, it would be incredibly difficult for me to try and plan stratagy and move people around into different roles and all that while half the town is trying to lynch me. If you guys decide you don't want me as director, I'd suggest CrashTextDummies, he seems to have a pretty good understanding of how to use the different roles and such, and the way he's thinking about stuff gives me a good vibe about him.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Well, for example, in the oigional Reverse Mafia I campaigned quite hard to be the first person nominated for revival.Guardian wrote:Yos said he was town.He wouldn't lie to me.Yos, I actually would like to see those examples where you tried to become director as pro town. Doesn't mean you are town here, but it makes it more plausible.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yeah...I really thought there were more games where I "ran" for mayor as town, but I can't seem to find them. Only other game I could find where I was town and there was a mayor was covert opps mafia, and I didn't want to be mayor in that game, because mayor couldn't be nightkilled, and with my role being very dangerous to the town I wanted to get nightkilled ASAP.Guardian wrote:
Hehe, I definitely identify with you on the first part; I know I am pro town, I only can suspect to a certain degree of confidence that the rest of you are pro town.Yos2 wrote:because I trust myself more then someone else, if that makes any sense. I can show you some examples if you want.
The second part, you gave me one example, and no links. I would appreciate more.
Anyway, the one that I told you about, reverse mafia, you can find here:
viewtopic.php?t=3923&start=0. I was pro-town, and got myself revived first, during day 1; if you take a look at day 1, I think you'll see that I played pretty much like I'm playing this game, basically getting myself elected day 1 mostly because of a whole lot of stratagy/theory type discussion posts.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Why do you think the liasons are more important then SIA's?Guardian wrote: Right now I think a good starting setup would be:
1x Director
1x Deputy Director
2x Crypto Analysists
2x Field Agent
1x Counterintelligence Agent
4x Liasons
1x SIAI want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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I agree with that. And like I mentioned before, I also noticed a possible connection between Guardian and Yogurt earlier.Eyceking wrote:I think it tells us something, Yos. It has the potential of forming a link between two players (Korran and Guardian) and this is useful information - both now and in the future. I think it's something worth noting now, early in the game, not if and when one is lynched and turns out to be scum.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Heh. Yeah, exactally. I don't know if there's actaully a scum link between Guardian and Yogurt, it could just be that they're friends outside of the game or something, but I definatly wouldn't vote for either one to be director at this point.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Agreed; I'm kind of wondering if Guardian is trying to cast suspicion on the other candidates for dictator just to help himself get elected.CrashTextDummie wrote: You know, Guardian, I have difficulty following your line of thinking. Earlier you said that you find both Yosarian andyourselfscummy for trying to be director, which is an incredibly twisted way of looking at things. You say you are pro-town, so you of all people should be able to recognize the motivation of a pro-town player to become director.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Because I want either me or CTD elected, I don't want Guardian elected because I don't trust him at the moment. So if (hypothetically speacking) Guardian is first in the votecount, CTD is second, and I'm third, I'd vote CTD.YogurtBandit wrote:
Why depending on whos winning?Yosarian2 wrote:Hmm. I know the mod's away, but I would like to see a votecount before deadline. I'll vote for either myself or CTD, depending on who's winning.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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The most important single role is probably the counterintellegence agent. The crypto roles are also vital.CrashTextDummie wrote:Here are a couple of question I think everyone should answer, in order to give the Director (whoever that may be) an idea of where everyone stands:
1. What do you think the most important role (besides Director) is?
Hmm. For counterintellegence agent, I'd want someone who looks pro-town to me and is already trying to figure out who the scum are. Perhaps Xdaamno or CTD. Whoever it is, we'd want to leave him in that position for 4 days, and defend him with bodyguards and such, so it'd have to be someone we trust and who's active and paying attention.2. Which player would you like to see in that position?
At the moment, probably guardian, yogurt, and the lurkers.3. Which player do you trust least?
Field agents aren't bad, although we might not want ALL the field agents to be lurkers/scummy players. Some of the liason positions seem like they couldn't hurt the town directly if a scum gets his hands on it, although they might be able to sabatauge us on the "Jack Bouer" side of things, so we'd have to play that by ear. Making someone suspicious looking a signal intellegence analysist might put him in a tricky position if we direct him; I'll have to think about that. In any case, I would give everyone some position, I think; the risk of giving a scum power is balanced out by the info we can get by watching how people use their power.4. What role, if any, would you like assigned to that player?
Strange as it may sound, I'd also be tempted to make Guardian assistant director, in the hopes that if he is scum we might be able to get an investigation on him before the director dies and lynch him if he's scum, and a scum assistant director can't really do any harm on his own; and OTOH, if he turns out to not be scum Guardian might not be a bad director. He's at least active and thinking about stratagy.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Ok; if the voting's that close, then I might as wellvote:Yosarianfor director.
Anyway, Guardian, I would never put a player I don't trust in the position of FBI liasion, as the FBI liasion also has the ability to "arrest" other players; I'm not entirely sure what that means, but I'm pretty sure it's not a power we want in the hands of the scum.
(On another note, perhaps I'm paranoid, but something about his last post makes me wonder if Guardian might be trying to set up a long-term "If Yos dosn't get killed it means he's scum!" trap for me.)
Anyway, we need to have a deputy director, and it'll be a tricky position to fill; if the director puts an active player there, then he's not doing anything, but if he puts a lurker there, then if the director dies the town loses a lot of flexability. Putting you there, Guardian, is about the best compromise I can think of; do you have a better suggestion?I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yeah, exactally; I'm playing two other games in this forum right now, including a speed mafia game, so as soon as this game started I noticed. And as soon as it opened I went through and read the rules pretty carefull before posting. Paying attention is not scummy.Eyceking wrote: OrmaybeI keep on top of the games I've signed up for. How's that theory work for ya? I agree that the lurkers returning definitely look the most townie now because they're complaining of not receiving a mod PM about the game - but I didn't factor it in because I didn't sign up for a game and then forget about it.
I don't know how many you're playing in but it shouldn't be that hard.
It's interesting how many different people are trying the whole "I'm going to say I didn't get a role PM and therefore the fact that I said that that PROVES that I'm a good guy!" shtick. Some of them may be telling the truth, but I'm really wondering if the scum before the game all messaged each other and said "hey, guys, look at that in the rules, looks like townies don't get a role PM. When the game starts, make sure you all pretend you didn't get a role PM, ok guys?" Too many people are being way to obveous about saying they didn't get a role PM, when even if you skimmed the rules the fact that townies didn't get role PM's should have been obveous to anyone posting after Xdaamno's post #4, and that includes everyone.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Oh, it's a "fantasy". You see, here I was thinking it was a "theory" or a "hypothisis". But I guess you would know better then me what the scum did or did not say to each other before the game started.Off the Mark wrote:That's quite a fantasy you cooked up there, Yos.FOS: Yosarian2
That's possible, and it's certanly understandable if true. I cetanly don't blame you for not knowing the game started. Alternatly, I don't consider you and Off the Mark as 100% confirmed innocents just because you didn't post for a while; it's not like that would have been a difficult thing for a clever scum to fake.Albert wrote: There was no confirmation, we didn't even know the game existed. Obvious vanillas are the 2 lurkers.
Now, based on your posts so far, I don't have any reason to suspect you specifically right now. I'm just always very cautious about declaring people 100# confirmed innocents this early in the game based on that kind of circumstantial evidene.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Still not going to make guardian FBI liason agent if I'm elected. That seems like positions we really want someone we can trust in; even if you "just" use it as a cop role like you claim, I still wouldn't really want a possible scum in a cop role.
Albert and UA might make good crypto agents. Not sure I trust Off The Mark, though; he seems to be trying WAY too hard to convince us all he's a confirmed innocent, when if he's a scum he could very easily have just read the rules post and decided to lurk until he was mod-prodded in order to pretend he didn't get a PM. And I also don't like the way he just tried to argue that "either he and albert are both town together or we're both scum" and tried to claim that they were basically "masons". Um, no, not at all. The whole tone of OTM's posts feels like that of a scum who's trying to make us think he's confirmed; Albert and UA have both made posts that have a pro-town feel to them, while OTM has been mostly trying to "prove" he's a good guy.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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CTD: I think the "assasination and abduction" part of the "field agents" job is mostly in relation to outside work, helping Jack and all that. Reading the role, it dosn't sound like a field agent can assasinate or abduct a player in the game.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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But yeah, the point about the town telling the field agent who to target was upmost in my mind. If the field agent is pro-town but scummy looking, then the scum probably don't want him dead, so they'll avoid going after the person he's protecting; if the field agent is scum, then the scum can't afford to kill the person he's supposed to be protecting.
However, we can't direct all the field agents; we've got at least 4 people we want to protect (counter-intellegence+3 cryptos, and perhaps others) and only 3 bodyguards to do it, so we'd probably want at least some of the field agents to not annoucne their choices to keep the scum guessing. Which means that not ALL of the field agents can be scummy looking people.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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The reason I think that you've been mostly trying to prove you're a confirmed innocent is because most of your posts look like attempts on your part to create and re-inforce the idea that you and Albert are confirmed innocents. My guess at this point is that you're scum and you're trying to latch onto a pro-town Albert.Off the Mark wrote:Yos, you seem to focus on odd things when you read my posts. The only way you could possibly think that the focus of my posts has been to prove myself innocent is that either you were suspicious of me from the very beginning for some odd reason or you are simply scum and trying to throw up a smokescreen here.
In your first real post...
Trying to re-inforce the idea that you and albert are confirmed innocents together.Off the Mark wrote:Anyway, yeah having the roles not sent by PM was a big mistake by the mod IMO. I am finding myself agreeing with Albert that anyone posting soon after the thread started is suspicious.
...
How about this idea?
vote: Albert B. Rampagefor director.
We need someone we can trust and he is my pick because I am sure he is in the same boat as me. I had no idea this game had started until I got a prod and it seems he is in the same situation.
In your next post
Again repeating the idea that all lurkers are pro-town.Off the Mark wrote:
eyecking was giving me scum vibes from the beginning but this post puts him over the top. Given that the mod didn't send out PM's to townies, that seems like an obvious answer to me as to why players are lurking. But if you DID receive a PM, (as I believe eyecking did) perhaps this would not occur to you. It's also a convenient excuse to deflect suspicion.eyecking wrote: 3. Which player do you trust least?
The lurking ones. Who haven't posted. At all. Other than that... maybe I don't know. Too early in the game to be certain about things like that.
FOS: eyecking
An excuse for why you hadn't noticed the game, again trying to convince us you didn't get a PM and are therefore town.Off the Mark wrote:I knew I signed up for this game, I just assumed it hadn't started yet because I hadn't received a PM. I don't have any other games going in Coney Island, I think I checked in this forum once to see if 24 was here but it wasn't on the front page at the time, so I just kept waiting for my PM.
Attacking me for daring to question your claim that you are a confirmed pro-town. Very suspicious.Off the Mark wrote:That's quite a fantasy you cooked up there, Yos.FOS: Yosarian2
Off the Mark wrote:Albert, what convinces you Yos is town? I would be much more comfortable with a director who we are sure is town.
Trying to use argument through repition here to convince us that "we are sure" that you and Albert are town. I especally don't like the craplogic here where you call you and Albert a mason group and imply that either you're both scum together or you're both town, when it's certanly possible that he's telling the truth about not noticing and you decided not to post intentionally, or vice versa. Again, I'm thinking that you're scum and Albert is town, and you're trying to latch on to him and buddy up with him.Off the Mark wrote:I'm sure Albert is town because we both did not get a PM and found about the game when we got prodded. You say we could have plotted this from the beginning as scum, but from my perspective, I know that didn't happen. So in my book, we're practically a mason group.
So, yeah. That's why I think most of your posts are a focused effort to convicne us all that you're a confirmed innocent. It looks to me like that's been your main goal so far, and that makes me distrust you.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Guardian: It's not that I don't want scum to be cops because I think they'll fake results, because they probably wouldn't (although I'm not entierly sure, as the town then wouldn't know if it was the cop or the crypto who faked the results). The main reason I don't want scum to be in our cop positions is for the obveous reason that then the cops wouldn't catch any scum, and would probably just "confirm" people as innocents who the scum were planning on killing anyway.
And I've already explained why I don't trust you at the moment, Guardian; the link between you and Yogurt looks scummy to me.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Note that the mod did warn us also that scum in those roles can fake the codes so the crypto will get bad information.Guardian wrote:I think SIA's and the CIA are great for players who are good but under suspicion; they don't get results,they get codes that go to crypto. A scum CIA or SIA can't really do much bad, because all they get are codes the go to cryptos.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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On the usefuness of the coutnerintellegence agent? It sounds like that he's our main cop; well, either him or the FBI agent. I would definatly put someone I thought was both pro-town and looking like a good scum-hunter there.
The setup Albert suggested is more like what I had in mind, and is basically what I was suggesting from the start. I think the best plan is start out focuing on finding the scum, although we may have to have more people help Jack find the nuclear bomb if that starts to go badly (and, based on the series, it's not likely to go smoothly). And I think the key to doing that is 1 counter-intel, 2 SIA's (which, like I said, sound like trackers to me who can tell us what the scum are telling the mod), 3 cryptos to get all that data, 3 field agents, and 1 FBI liason to act as cop.
And, like I said, the only places in there safe to put people that look suspicious are deputy director, some of the field agents, and perhaps, if needed, the SIA's. (If we're devoting a huge amount of resources to keeping a counter-intel person alive with bodyguards for 4 hours and then keeping the crypto agent alive for 1 hour to decode it, we can't afford to put a scum in that positon who would waste all that time and effort, and we won't want to lynch the counter-intel person half-way though his investigation, so we definatly want to put someone we think is pro-town there.)I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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No, not really. It's a matter of motiviation. In any mafia game, the #1 priority of scum is always to not be lynched; in fact, if 1 scum manages to be consdiered a confirmed innocent and last the entire game without being lynched, the town loses. Whereas if you were town, trying to make yourself look confirmed would be a much lower priority; I wouldn't be surprised to see a pro-town person using the argumetns you've used in self defense when in danger of being lynched, but I would not expect a good guy to try to go out of your way to convince us of your innocence before anyone had even questioned it. There's just no real reason to do that at this point, unless you're scum.Off the Mark wrote: Yos: you need to accept the possibility that I simply believe the things I am saying. It seems counter-intuitive for you to believe I am scum because I am trying to look innocent. That is WIFOM to the extreme.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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From what Pooky's said so far, it dosn't seem work that way. 1 SIA or counter-intellegence person sends their info to 1 crypto, and then it takes that 1 crypto a full hour to decode the information. Which means that 1 bad crypto could give us bad intellegence, and we woudln't have any way of knowing if it was the crypto or the SIA/counter intellegence agent doing it.Albert B. Rampage wrote:With maybe about 3-4 terrorists in the mix, I think it is affordable to have 1 or 2 as cryptos, since all cryptos will confirm eachother once they have decrypted a code.
Its important for at least 1 SIA to be pro-town, so I suggest putting two players that have been going at eachother as SIAs; at least one must be town. We can figure which one if one tries to falsify data.
[/qute]
Perhaps, but only if we trust the cryptos.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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(shrug) Well, that's how mafia works, we're all trying to figure out what other people are thinking based on what they are saying. And the impression I got from your posts so far is that you really, REALLY want us to believe that ALL the latecomers MUST be pro-town, which is what I would expect you to do if you intentioanlly decided to come in to the game late in order to prove you're pro-town.Off the Mark wrote:
OK.... but I didn't do that. I said I trusted Albert and UA because they seem to be in the same position as me. You seem to be reading this as me saying, "Trust me!" when really I am just saying I trust these other guys. That's why I said you must have distrusted me from the beginning in order to get this type of read on my posts. You seem to be trying very hard to read between the lines for no good reason here. Just drop your suspicion for a second and it will all be much clearer. I am simply saying what I mean here and you are trying to glean other meanings from it and it is quite frustrating.Yos wrote: I wouldn't be surprised to see a pro-town person using the argumetns you've used in self defense when in danger of being lynched, but I would not expect a good guy to try to go out of your way to convince us of your innocence before anyone had even questioned it. There's just no real reason to do that at this point, unless you're scum.
The fact that it never seemed to occur to you that it was possible that ANY of the latecomers might be scum trying to trick us bugs me.
Now, none of that is solid proof you're scum, of course, but you never get solid proof this early in a game.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Eh...scum often try to buddy up with a good guy; they try to tie themselves to the good guy, both to make themselves look good, to get themselves an ally, and to make the good guy look bad later if they get caught. That's what it looks to me like he was doing with Albert.Xdaamno wrote:Still, having said that, him ignoring the difference in status seems like something a pro-town player would do. If he was scum, I'm not sure of the reasoning behind him saying he trusts them, unless they're both his scumbuddies (unlikely). Of course, that dosen't mean the statement didn't seem off.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Ok. Well, let me make a quick list of who I would put into each position if I become director; don't want anyone to be surprised or anything.
Field agents:
Off the Mark
YogurtBandit
Korran
Off the Mark and YogurtBandit I consider to be suspicious. Korran, not so much, actually, but he's also not someone I think the scum want to see dead.
Deputy Director:
Guardian
Like I said, it's not a position where he can do a lot of harm as scum, and if town he wouldn't be a bad director. Just so long as I don't get killed before we figure out his alignment, should be all right. If I do get killed, keep a close eye on him.
FBI liason: Xdaamno
Cop like role; definatly want someone here who active and seems to be already scumhunting. Xdaamno seems like the best choice at the moment.
CounterIntellegence: CrashTextDummie
Definatly want someone here we trust to be pro-town and who is active. Trust is even more important then with the FBI position, as whatever results he has is filtered again and so it'd be harder to prove a scum was fooling with us here, and it takes 4 hours to get an investgation so we don't want someone we'd be lynching halfway through.
Crypto agents:
Albert B. Rampage
???
???
Albert seems pro-town at this point.
So, that leaves the following players for the other two crypto roles and the two SIA roles; I'll have to go back and re-read them before I make any decisions there. And of course I'm open to suggestions (except more demands from Guardian to put him into some key position )
Spambot
Eyceking
UltimaAvalon
ChannelDelibirdI want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Then Pooky's warning wouldn't make any sense. I would guess that the SIA has the option to change the message the crypto gets in some meaningless way (or perhaps only has that option if the SIA is scum). We'll know more once we actually have someone in that position, but for now, I'm assuming that a scum SIA would be able to fake whatever kind of result he wanted. So then the next hour, the crypto would say "Ok, player X told the mod to kill Y", we'd lynch X, X would be town, and we still wouldn't know if it was the crypto or the SIA messing with us. I'm not even sure if we'd know which SIA sent which message to which crypto, which could mix things up even more.Guardian wrote:Well, to be honest, I want to hear more about this. If the code is something like XYUFsku342fnk, I find it hard to believe that the scum could falsify it meaningfully. Also, whoever was being falsified against would certainly challenge the crypto/SIA, casting doubt onto the message's truthfulness and the crypto/SIA's alignment.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Well, honestly, we might or might not be able to spare a bodyguard to protect the director, even if he was confirmed. But yeah, I can certanly understand that either the counter-intellegence guy or the FBI guy might want to check me out, if they suspect me.
I tend to think that the systems analysis guys would probably be better off keeping an eye on people who are sending night choices to the mod, such as field agents; you know, make sure they're doing good pro-town stuff like bodyguarding and not trying to assasinate Jack Bauer or anything like that.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Well, not to us directly. Some of that stuff could probably screw with Jack Bauer(especally "pardoning a terrorst" and "declaring war" and stuff), but then again, we can listen in on any conversations between them and the mod, and if the FBI or whatever action isn't sped up I'd think we'd notice anyway.Xdaamno wrote:Could be useful to place suspiscious players. If they're scum they can't do much harm, from what we know.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Basically, if the game goes the full 24 hours (which it probably won't), remembering that hour 1 dosn't count, then, if the FBI agent never dies, is lynched, or has to inturrupt an investigation due to the person he was investigation dying or being lynched or being confirmed innocent or something, then without the white house liason, we'd get investigations on:Guardian wrote:The white house speeding up the FBI, our best cop, is crucial, and I cannot believe that you all are disregarding it. That is ludicrous.
Hour 5
Hour 9
Hour 13
Hour 17
Hour 21
With the white house liason doing his thing, again assuming that the white house liason dosn't get killed remembering that his ability wouldn't kick in until hour 5, we'd get investagtions on:
Hour 5
Hour 8
Hour 11
Hour 14
Hour 17
Hour 20
Hour 23
So, if everything goes right and nothing is ever disrupted, it's basically 2 or 3 extra investigations; (3 extra if the game goes all the way to hour 23, which I'm thinking it probably won't). If the FBI liason gets intrupted for whatever reason a time or two, then the payoff gets smaller.
Basically, it might be marginally worthwhile in theory to put someone as white house liason in order to get the FBI associate the extra investigations, but that's only if everything goes perfectly, and the scum could screw it up by killing off the white house liason before he's done. I don't think we can afford to put an extra bodyguard to protect him, it'll be hard enough to protect the 2 cops and the 3 cryptos.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Well, the question is, is it worth it having 1 less SIA doing investigations or 1 less bodguard keeping our cops alive in order to get those 2 extra investigations. (shrug) It's a close call. I tend to think the extra bodyguard might be better, but eh, we can try having a white house liason to start the game off with, see how that works.Guardian wrote:OTM, I don't dislike that setup, though I would want someone at white house.
UA, exactly. We need someone at the white house.... Yos, you ignore that FBI could be killed anyways, etc. etc. etc. The white house play is a good one, it should be done in hour one and will benefit us the rest of the game.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Hmm. Well, that's an option, but it would mean we wouldn't get our first FBI investigation until hour 9, after we've already had 3 lynches.Albert B. Rampage wrote:Simple: take out FBI, put white house. Use ability, then put FBI at hour 5.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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(nods) I agree, eyeking is looking rather scummy and should not get a key role; definatly not going to make him a crypto or a SIA now, too dangerous to have a scumy looking person in either role . Because he looks scummy, and because there is a good argument for having a white house liason, I'm thinking that might be a good place to put him; if he dosn't do what he's supposed to there and speed up the other liason's return time, we'll certanly notice.
So, this was my old list:
Moving eyeking from a crypto role to a White House Liason role, and we get:Yosarian2 wrote:Ok. Well, let me make a quick list of who I would put into each position if I become director; don't want anyone to be surprised or anything.
Field agents:
Off the Mark
YogurtBandit
Korran
Off the Mark and YogurtBandit I consider to be suspicious. Korran, not so much, actually, but he's also not someone I think the scum want to see dead.
Deputy Director:
Guardian
Like I said, it's not a position where he can do a lot of harm as scum, and if town he wouldn't be a bad director. Just so long as I don't get killed before we figure out his alignment, should be all right. If I do get killed, keep a close eye on him.
FBI liason: Xdaamno
Cop like role; definatly want someone here who active and seems to be already scumhunting. Xdaamno seems like the best choice at the moment.
CounterIntellegence: CrashTextDummie
Definatly want someone here we trust to be pro-town and who is active. Trust is even more important then with the FBI position, as whatever results he has is filtered again and so it'd be harder to prove a scum was fooling with us here, and it takes 4 hours to get an investgation so we don't want someone we'd be lynching halfway through.
Crypto agents:
Albert B. Rampage
???
???
Albert seems pro-town at this point.
So, that leaves the following players for the other two crypto roles and the two SIA roles; I'll have to go back and re-read them before I make any decisions there. And of course I'm open to suggestions (except more demands from Guardian to put him into some key position )
Spambot
Eyceking
UltimaAvalon
ChannelDelibird
Field agents:
Off the Mark
YogurtBandit
Korran
Deputry:
Guardian
FBI liason:
Xdaamo
Crypto roles:
Albert
Smambot
CounterIntellegence: CrashTextDummie
SIA roles:
UA
CDB
White House Liason:Eyeking
2 cryptos might be enough to start the game out with. We can move a third guy over to a crypto role once we get close to having our first counter-intellegence investigation come back (I don't know from where; but I guess we can figure that out later)
How does that sound to everyone?I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Eh? You have a reason for that?Albert B. Rampage wrote:Xdaamo as FBI ? LOL.
I already explained twice why I think he'd make a good FBI agent; I was looking for someone who was active and ,even more importantly, someone who looked like thwy were scumhunting already, as we're going to need the FBI agent to start his first investigation basically immedeatly I want somone who's already trying to figure out who the scum is. And he has been doing more scumhunting then anyone else, and I also tend to agree with many of his points. Here's some examples:
Xdaamno wrote:
I don't like your sheep-ness here; many scum do this to pass the blame if something goes wrong. You should make your own mind upEyceking wrote:Alright, I think I get this? It's definitely different is what it is. Anyway...
In case anybody is wondering this is because the general consensus is that he is the strongest player. I have no idea having very little experience and I'm willing to go with what the majority feel is in their best interest. I'm willing to take the risk that he might be scum in the hope of a bigger pay off that he is a strong pro-town leader.Xdaamno wrote:
This kind of thing is why I don't particularly want guardian the the chair...YogurtBandit wrote:
Eh, Seems like a cool position to be in.Guardian is like, cool. I mean, I'd know if he was scum, and he's not scum. I can just tell. We're cool like that. For real. 8)CrashTextDummie wrote: YogurtBandit - You're pushing hard to be a Liason. Care to explain why? Also, what makes you think Guardian's the right choice for Director?Xdaamno wrote:Guardian, OMGUS is baaaad
It's just all your posts seem to be atleast slightly fishy, but I can't really pin it on anything.Xdaamno wrote:I find OTM's reasoning a litte strange there too. He should atleast of been able to see the argument from our POV in that Albert and UA aren't confirmed as trust-able at this stage in the game. He seemed to ignore the fact that his status dosen't correlate to the other's statuses.
Still, having said that, him ignoring the difference in status seems like something a pro-town player would do. If he was scum, I'm not sure of the reasoning behind him saying he trusts them, unless they're both his scumbuddies (unlikely). Of course, that dosen't mean the statement didn't seem off.Xdaamno wrote:
'He's sort of new' isn't a good enough excuse, really.YogurtBandit wrote:
I seriously think you all should stop buggin Korran about this. I mean hes sort of new, And hes just trying to pick a familiar face. Yeah Korran could be scum but Its not likely.Korran wrote:All I did is vote for him because he was the only one I sort of knew.I don't know who is the best to be director.to me it could be anyone.
And what do you mean it's not likely? How do you know he's not likely to be scum? And even so, we can't just assume he's town off the bat.
In general, Xdaamno has been doing more scumhunting then most people; he's been one of the more active players, and his posts look to me like he's honestly looking for scum, and doing it in a way that looks logical to me, so I think he'd make a good cop, at least if he's town.Xdaamno wrote:Anyway, guardian's once again jumping players with no good evidence from my POV. IGMEOY *twisted*
If you'd like to explain why you don't trust him, Albert, I'd be glad to hear it. Same with CrashTestDummies.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Well, I can't say I really agree with that. Many of the things that you seem to think are scummy (Attacking Guardian, "bullying" Korran) are actually thing I tend to see as good scum-hunting; I agreed with most of his attacks on Guardian, for example, and putting pressure on a newer player to get a reaction is also a quite useful way to find scum. And I'm not sure why the early joke post is scummy.
I'd also like to hear why you think CTD is scummy; I'm not sure I see that either.
As for a no-vote; do you mean a no-lynch vote? Well, we basically get 1 lynch every 3 "hours". If we lynch in the first hour, we might get more lynches in total, but I could see how it might be better to wait until hour 2 or 3 if the extra conversation or whatever improves our odds of lynching scum.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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