Mini 461 "24" Game Over. Roll Credits

[Spambot]

Woah, this setup is crazy complicated. I need to read the first post a couple more times, but right now I've liked what Yos has said. I want to think about it more, but I'll probably vote for Yos.

[Spambot]

I was saying that I haven't had enough of a chance to look over the set up, but I think that what Yos has said has made the most sense. He seems to be putting a lot of thought into it and his logic has been sound. He might do the same as a terrorist, but it still reads well to me.

[Spambot]

Alright, I think I've got a better grasp on it now.

It seems like we absolutely want the guys that decode stuff. I'd say we want at least two, maybe even three. I'm not sure how often we will be getting information that needs to be decoded, but it sounds like it will be fairly often and usually be pretty important.

Obviously we need a counter intelligence agent. It seems like the most powerful role.

As far as the director goes, I think that having somebody good in that rule is extremely important. Because they can engage in private communication with us, they are going to be by far the most prolific player. Having somebody good in that role is dangerous if they are scum, but I think the benefit of if they aren't outweighs it. If we do elect scum there, they will be forced to talk to so many people and have to be so involved with what is going that they will have plenty of opportunities to make a slip.

As far as the other roles, I'm not too sure what we need. The white house guy sounds pretty interesting, especially since he can speed up others actions (if I'm reading it right). We're on a very real deadline, and getting things done as fast as possible is going to be very important.

With that said, it is EXTREMELY necessary that nobody lurk. Nine days for the equivalent of a normal mafia day isn't very much time, especially for a day 1. It seems like there will be a lot of info coming in and we can't afford to have somebody with an important job slacking or missing deadlines.

So far, the person that has provided the most reasonable arguments for strategy has been Yos, so I think he'll be a good director.

Vote: Yos

[Spambot]

No, it's nothing to do with wanting to be director.

I'm not saying anything more, just IGMEOY.

What does IGMEOY mean?

Actually, I'd say that wanting to be director isn't all that scummy. Scum would need to have huge balls to go after it hard. Like I said before, I think that is such a high profile position that whoever gets it will be under very high scrutiny. I think that if we make a mistake and put scum there, they won't last very long.

[Spambot]

Sorry I'm late am I still in

You are still on the player list, so I would assume so. What do you think of the setup? Who do you think should be the director? Do you have any suspicions of people yet?

[Spambot]

Well you are the only person I have seen before so thats why I chose you and reading through the posts made you seem like a great leader.

How many games have you played in?

[Spambot]

Yeah, that sounds a lot like Korran is a newb scum and accidentally gave away his buddy. I'm not too sure, as he could just be a newb and it be a coincedence.

[Spambot]

Korran: Is this your first mafia game?

Are you skimming? He earlier said that he had just joined four games.

[Spambot]

Yeah, they definitely should not be given roles that feed each other information, just to be on the safe side. I don't think I'd want to trust Korran with any sort of a complicated role at all, just from judging the way he has been posting (no offense intended, just being honest).

[Spambot]

Here are a couple of question I think everyone should answer, in order to give the Director (whoever that may be) an idea of where everyone stands:

1. What do you think the most important role (besides Director) is?
2. Which player would you like to see in that position?
3. Which player do you trust least?
4. What role, if any, would you like assigned to that player?

Please explain your answers.

1. It depends on which win condition we want to focus on. We can either lynch all of the scum or help Jack Bauer defuse the bomb. If we want to do the latter, then crypto's are probably more important. If we just want to catch all the scum (without knowing more, this seems our best course of action to me), then probably the counter-intelligence agent.

2. I think I'd be alright with either Yos or CTD in that spot.

3. Guardian; the way he is been lobbying for Director and trying to cast doubt on the other leading candidates makes me very suspicious of him. His posts have also had a very medium-sized feel to them.

4. Probably one of the liasions. If he is town, we can't afford to have a good player in a completely useless role. I think all of the lurkers should be put in spots where they can do the least harm, whether it's intentional harm or not. I don't trust Guardian, but I think the amount of harm he could do as a liasion is probably not too high.

[Spambot]

I'm voting for Yos.

[Spambot]

Now that the lurkers are playing, the game is really starting to take off. Sorry for bringing up an old post, but I like responding as I catch up.

Yos: you need to accept the possibility that I simply believe the things I am saying. It seems counter-intuitive for you to believe I am scum because I am trying to look innocent. That is WIFOM to the extreme.

We have absolutely no reason to just take your word that you mean what you say. There is no good reason to think that you aren't lying scum, and you need to seriously drop this "I lurked for a week so I am confirmed" stuff. It might make you look better, but it does not confirm you at all.

And it's not at all WIFOM. Scum try very hard to look innocent, and that separates them from town. Townies don't try to look innocent because they ARE innocent; scum are the ones worried about how they look.

[Spambot]

Fuck you if you don't beleive me nobody ever does.I wish I never found this fucking site!!

If you're going to bring shit like this into the game, I would suggest that you ask to be replaced. I am not going to put up with players acting like that.

[Spambot]

Alright, finished catching up. General thoughts.

I'm very glad that almost everybody is actively participating now. I was really worried about what the dead weight was going to do once the game really started.

I don't necessarily buy everybody that has effectively claimed vanilla. I think maybe the first one or two who said it might be telling the truth, but I don't believe that they are all town.

I still think Yos is the best choice for director. His analysis with assigned roles mirrored my thoughts a lot, and I feel like he has been the least actively pursuing the role out of those with votes. The way Guardian was pushing for being director still bothers me, but his posts haven't been too suspicious other than that.

People I think might actually be scum at this point:

Korran - I hate the newb defense. I think that if somebody acts scummy and dumb, then they are probably both. I've seen too many bad scum get away with that. That said, he hasn't done too much scummy yet. I think it is very important to put him in a weak role, because I don't trust his judgement even if he is town.

Yogurt - Feels like he has been lurking in plain sight a little. Mostly a gut feeling.

OTM - Like Yos pointed out, I don't like how hard he has been pushing that showing up late makes him confirmed. Yes, technically you were calling Albert confirmed, but that is implying that you are too. I think you might be scum who knew he was town and are trying to get on his good side, especially with the small push to get him elected.

Game theory is cool, but I think it'd be awesome if people actually tried hunting scum a little, too. The scum probably love that they can talk away and look like they are helping without really playing.

[Spambot]

Mod: Give Spambot receives a Win-flavored Cookie

Mmmm... tastes like

win.

And win, well, it just taste so good.

[Spambot]

So, spambot, I was earlier talking about giving out roles and you were one of the people I was undecided on. Do you have any thoughts on that?

Not really. I can understand why you might not want to put me into a really vital role, because I haven't been as actively discussing the set up as others. I will say that I think my instincts are pretty good and I'd do well in a cop role, but there might be others better suited to that.

For instance, I think the first thing that a cop role should do is investigate the director and possibly the deputy director. Having a confirmed pro-town director with a bodyguard seems pretty strong to me.

[Spambot]

I know you don't have to take my word for it, that's not what I said at all. I just said you have to accept the

possibility

that what I'm saying is truly what I believe. When I start to read someone's post, I first read it assuming they are town. If anything jumps out at me as bad logic or suspicious I reread and see how it would sound coming from a scum. If reading it that way makes it make more sense, I chalk it up as a scummy post. I thought this was how everyone operated, but the way Yos was interpreting my posts seemed like he distrusted me from the get-go for some odd reason.

I really didn't realize I'd come across as pushing the "I've been lurking for a week therefore I'm innocent" thing. We were all talking about who we trusted, so I said I trust the other lurkers and stated why. Somehow this has got everybody up in arms against me.

I understand that it does not make us confirmed town. But TO ME, it makes us more trustworthy than the average bear, ok?

This post makes me feel a little better about you.

[Spambot]

We got an extension. I say we use it as much as we can? Once the roles are distributed then it's going to take time to shuffle them around. I've given my views, limited as they are, on the types of people I'd like to see in each position. Unfortunately I'm relying on the more experience among us to identify those who are more experienced, and I'm just along for the ride.

For now. I'll get you scums if it's the last thing I do!

God, this post is making my eyes bleed, it's so scummy.

First, he is pushing using our extension like he is taking a stance on something, and seems to be trying really hard to show how townie he is. Next, he does the "poor lil' me" thing by telling us how limited his views are. I'd like to hear you explain why your views are so limited and why you feel the need to remind us that you have given them.

You're relying on the experienced players to identify who the experienced players are? That plus the "along for the ride" comment make it sound like you are happy just to coast along without helping the town. Of course, he ends the post with a blatant example of the medium-sized tell.

If we were at the voting stage of the game, I'd be voting for you. As it is, I strongly recommend that the director doesn't give you any important roles.

[Spambot]

I think that monitoring the players is a better option, because I'm not entirely sure how monitoring a faction would help us or what information we would get from it.

I think the assignment is pretty good, although I'm kind of surprised you made me a crpyto. I think that investigating Yos and Guardian is probably a good idea, as being able to have full confidence in them should make things a lot easier.

[Spambot]

Hmm, Field Agent. So, Who shall I protect?

You know, that's actually kind of tricky. Normally I'd say that bodyguards/docs should keep their target to themselves, but that would require a pretty big vote of confidence in this game. However, directing you just means that you will never save an actual kill. I guess having an important role immune to kills (probably Yos if he gets confirmed or CTD) is better than not being able to hold you accountable.

[Spambot]

I assume we can vote now for who to lynch?

Vote: eyceking

He was far and away the player that bothered me the most in the pregame. I don't feel like he really discussed much and was just happy to go along with whatever the rest of us wanted to do. The few posts with content he did make rubbed me the wrong way.

[Spambot]

I agree, and that's why I think we should investigate him as soon as possible. Until then, we should try and form a general consensus on any actions.

[Spambot]

Heh, don't listen to Guardian, he doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.

This is a weird response to somebody that is saying you're suspicious.

[Spambot]

Sorry, I haven't posted much. I don't really understand what orders Yos is supposed to be giving Jack, and I'm really not sure what we should be doing. I still think Eyceking is the best bet for scum, and I feel better about OTM after that last exchange. Other than that, it doesn't seem like there is really much for me to do until somebody gives me something to decrypt.

[Spambot]

Spambot and ABR - vote for somebody and say why you think they're scum.

I am voting for somebody.

[Spambot]

I think I get what Xdaamo is saying. It's not scummy that you didn't refute his point (which is impossible when it's gut), but that you didn't respond at all. It makes it look like were trying to avoid confrontation, and it's a good point.

[Spambot]

I think any leads at this point are worth following. I'm about to go see a movie, but I'm going to do a more thorough analysis when I get back.

[Spambot]

Well, Yogurt has completely spazzed out. I thought the "scum can't kill yet" comment was a scum slip, and I don't buy his recent "don't lynch me because I am pro-town" bit. I really hope my gut isn't wrong here.

Vote: YogurtBandit

[Spambot]

I just started decrypting the info from UA. Re-assigning me now probably wouldn't be a good idea. I'll let you guys know as soon as I finish. Also, should I prioritize in some way? I haven't received anything else, but if I receive a message from Jack or something, I'm guessing that should take priority over decrypting other things?

[Spambot]

Yos, I need to see you in your office as well.

[Spambot]

Well, I was going to tell it to Yos first to see how he wanted to handle it, but I might as well post it in the thread if he's ignoring me.

Xdaamo did nothing on hour 2.

[Spambot]

Well, I was going to tell it to Yos first to see how he wanted to handle it, but I might as well post it in the thread if he's ignoring me.

Xdaamo did nothing on hour 2.

Uhm, yes. Your point? I sent the action in on hour 1.

No point. I am reporting what I decrypted. Why are you so defensive about it?

[Spambot]

I'm not being defensive, it's just you implied it was incriminating evidence when anyone can see it's pointless.

How on earth did I imply it was incriminating?

[Spambot]

Oh, sorry spambot; I guess I had missed your request to talk in my office.

Anyway, we don't really know if the scum did anything at all hour 2 anyway, so I didn't expect much from those results. When we get the hour 3 results, when they tried to hack my computer, we might be more lucky.

No worries. I wasn't sure if I should just yell my results into the thread, but once Albert did I figured it wasn't too important to discuss it with you first. I also agree that we weren't likely to get much info from that anyway.

[Spambot]

Well, I was going to tell it to Yos first to see how he wanted to handle it, but I might as well post it in the thread if he's ignoring me.

It's hardly paranoid to assume you thought something of it, regardless of whether you did or not.

Now you're changing your story. You said that I somehow

implied

that it was incriminating. Now you are saying that you assumed I was just

thinking

it was incriminating. Which is it?

[Spambot]

Of the people on the YB lynch, I find Spambot the most suspicious.

The underlined part is what sets off my scumdar. That's not the kind of thinking I'd expect to see from a townie when hammering, but it's a fairly common ruse used by scum who knowingly send a townie to his death.

Vote: Spambot

Well, it was true. I wasn't supremely confident that Yogurt was scum, but I got a little caught up in needing to lynch sooner than later since we won't be able to for awhile. He was one away, and it looked like he was going to get lynched anyway despite there not being a rock solid case against him. I still thought there was a pretty decent chance he was scum, but it wasn't based on much.

[Spambot]

Spambot, what did you decode hour 4 ?!?

Xdaamo took no actions on hours 3.

[Spambot]

Hmm. I guess I could, but if we wanted to keep 2 cryptos I'd have to move someone else to crypto then, and it's probably be eyeking at this point.

Albert and Spambot: how many messages have you guys been getting? Do you think we need 2 cryptos?

I just finished my second message. That was supposed to turn around when we started getting cop investigations. Does the switching of the roles means we have to start completely over? Or can people pick up where they left off? I really feel like we haven't been doing as much as we should be.

It doesn't look like Xdaamo was the one who sent those orders or hacked the messages, since that should have shown up on the surveillance. Of course, if he is scum, he probably won't take any action until he no longer is.

[Spambot]

I still owe this game a re-read, but even though I am suspicious of you both, I want to hear from spambot, and OTM is not a priority right now.

unvote: OTM vote: Spambot

What do you mean by wanting to hear from me? That's an incredibly vague reason for voting somebody and I don't have anything to defend against here. Are you just voting me because a few others said I was their top choice for scum?

[Spambot]

^^^Nope. Guardian is not scum.

Yes, I voted you because other people had interesting reasons for being suspicious of you, and I wanted to hear from you. I still want to hear from you.

I responded to CTD's comment about me. What do you want to hear from me about? That doesn't make any sense. Are you actually saying that you don't think I'm suspicious but are voting me because others do?

[Spambot]

I really don't like that Guardian voted me a couple pages back and hasn't mentioned me at all since he changed his vote. I haven't liked his attack on Yos much, but that bothers me more.

Albert, have you received any messages from Jack? I kind of thought we would be, but I haven't gotten a single thing other than the surveillance.

[Spambot]

I was testing you to try and see if you just slipped and said Guardian instead of OTM, or if you were paying so little attention as to think I was a field agent.

You passed.

This post feels like complete bullshit to me. I think that maybe his scumbuddy told him how the role worked, although that would be quite a ridiculous slip on Guardian's part. I don't know, maybe you were just completely making stuff up. It just reads so ungenuine though.

[Spambot]

I'm sorry guys, I've been really busy because I'm moving to a different state this weekend. This doesn't really excuse my poor contribution early, but lately things have been even worse and I hope to be more active starting next week. I'm still reading when I have a chance, but I haven't had much time for posting or analysis. I absolutely hate replacements and I've enjoyed this game, so I didn't think being replaced was necessary.

[Spambot]

I'm currently most suspicious of Eyceking and Guardian. Eyceking did a couple of things early on that kind of bothered me, but nothing too major.

Guardian, on the other hand, is who I'd be happiest lynching. I'm not too sure about the reasons others have listed against him, but here are mine. A bunch of pages back, he voted me, saying it was based on what others had said. I called him on that and he moved his vote pretty soon after. In another couple pages, he was discussing who he was suspicious of and didn't even mention me. That makes me think he is just happy to lynch whoever is convenient at the time (CTD and a few others had mentioned suspicion of me at the time). I also don't like how dismissive he has been of attacks on him, saying he might answer an attack if he "feels like it."

I've holded off voting because I don't think my case on him is completely damning, and I think losing any townies is a huge issue right now. Yeah, we want to find the scum, but we don't want to mislynch to the point where we can't gather info effectively. I think it might be better to wait for more info so that we definitely lynch scum the next time. Lynching like mad is going to severely hurt our ability to help Jack and find the bomb. I'm not advocating no lynching for the rest of the game, but after we lynched Yogurt I realized that we should be much more cautious.

[Spambot]

I would like to add that I stopped receiving SIA intel to decrypt, which I can only blame on FA. He must be hiding something from us.

No, that's because they were both sent to me. UA was watching Yos, results were that he switched positions back and ordered Jack Bauer to FDR park. I asked him about that last part in his office, and I'll leave it to him if he wants to reveal the reason. I was satisfied with it.

FA was watching CTD, who took no actions.

[Spambot]

Ok, I think I see the misunderstanding. The signals I received said forwarded during hour 5, which I took to mean as you being watched during hour 5. After clarification from Pooky, it was actually hour 4. I PM'd you in your office to ask why you sent Jack Bauer out, and you told me about the mall, which I guess must have been what you did hour 5. I just now noticed that you said the mall and the decryption said FDR park, so my bad for not paying attention. Lately I've kind of felt like all I can do is sit around and wait for stuff to decrypt, so I guess I haven't been as attentive as I ought to. Sorry for the confusion.

[Spambot]

Actually, I didn't notice it before, but the result on Yos is phrased a little differently than the rest I've gotten. It's worded much more vaguely. I don't know if Pooky did it intentionally or it was a mistake on his part, but it might mean that the hacker sent the order. If the scum can do that, though, we are in serious trouble. Being able to screw with our info roles and ordering Jack to do bad things is pretty sick, even if the speculation that they are giving up kills to do it is right. If that's the case, that means the scum are focusing more on killing Jack Bauer or making sure the bombs goes off. Something to keep in mind.

That's pretty speculative, and the simpler answer is just that Yos is lying to us. It's definitely possible, but I'm still reading him as very strongly townie at the moment, so I don't think it's likely.

[Spambot]

I still don't think turbo lynching is at all the way to go (this is the only thing I'm finding scummy about Yos currently), but I no longer think that lynching Guardian would be a turbo lynch. He's done so many things that have bothered me that I think it's more than worth the risk.

Vote: Guardian

[Spambot]

FA watched the "brotherhood" and they took no action.

[Spambot]

The self-hammering comment by Guardian was scummy as hell. I feel pretty confident we finally got one.

[Spambot]

What the hell happened? Last time I checked the thread, I thought Guardian had been hammered and now I come back and we have two dead townies.

The FA switch at the last second seems really bizarre to me, and the thing with PJ seems pretty genuine. His last couple posts have sounded a lot like a townie who was pissed at himself. I could see myself doing the same thing given the opportunity.

We should have lynched Guardian.

[Spambot]

Within 48 hours I will have the thread read and some comments for you all.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I fully own up to that my play up to this point has been sub par. Not for lack of trying mind, but for lack of... "focus"? And yeah, townie lynchbait is me .


Eh, in any event, I have every intention of reading the thread from start to finish with some degree of commenting in the next day or two....

That was a really good point made against you. You've said that you'd reread a TON of times, but that promised result has never happened as far as I remember.

Also, we shouldn't lynch you

because

you've been playing bad? Well, at least will probably get something now, otherwise you're probably going to be lynched.

[Spambot]

Ibaesha, Yosarian, and a third person I think is Spambot are scum.

Or maybe you are Guardian's buddy and trying like to hell keep him from getting lynched. Do you have anything at all to back up this statement?

I don't remember you being opposed to Ibaesha being our cop role, and it bothers me a lot that you are suddenly deciding that he's scum immediately after getting an innocent result.

[Spambot]

Guardian is flailing ridiculously. He's coming up with conspiracy theories to justify his suspicion of somebody that's our only cop result. His post where he reviewed some of the game was full of comments that said I seem town, but then he ends by saying he doesn't care and FOS's me? Right. His unwillingness to reread bothers me, and I've been happy about lynching him for the last several hours. I pray I'm not losing us the game here, but I'm not going to change my mind. If this is it, good game to the scum, I guess.

vote: Guardian

[Spambot]

Also, Ibby and PJ may not be as sure as Albert, and I doubt the scum would be willing to accommodate us, but we could move the wagon to Albert and no hammer would occur, and then move it to PJ and Ibby and no hammer would occur. That would prove Albert-me-PJ-Ibby scum, or all of us as town .

That might be the single scummiest plan I've ever heard.

[Spambot]

I can go this way too. I hope the scum team is Guardian, UA, and Albert here.

Vote: UltimateAvalon

[Spambot]

Jeez, sarnath'd. Kinetic having a one line post like that is probably not a good sign. Are you just claiming scum or what, dude?

[Spambot]

Yeah. Yos Spambot Kinetic, well done.

If we just lost the game there, it's going to be your fault. You couldn't make a single argument that wasn't entirely based on you being town. God, I wish we had lynched you instead.

[Spambot]

Yeah. Yos Spambot Kinetic, well done.

If we just lost the game there, it's going to be your fault. You couldn't make a single argument that wasn't entirely based on you being town. God, I wish we had lynched you instead.

If we haven't lost, I am shocked. And I would still think you are scum. But I think we lost, and you are scum, no?

So, you're going to keep up pretending to be town at this point? At least you commit to it, I guess. That shouldn't have worked at all, and it should be hanging and not UA. I can't believe your ridiculous flailing worked.

[Spambot]

Also, in the event the town actually has a way out of this:

Spambot and Kinetic were both watching the thread, so it's 100% guaranteed they planned that quicklynch. They are both scum - their distancing is completely useless. Guardian has been logging on/off AIM all day, probably to tell his scum-partners to hurry up and get on and quicklynch.

It's not relevant now, but I'm telling you that is a weird ass coincedence. I've never seen anything like that happen in a mafia game, and I can't believe we're going to lose because of it. I wish I'd just stood by my vote on Guardian.

[Spambot]

WHY GOD, WHY??!!! WHY DID I VOTE UA??? What a stupid, cruel trick. I can't even explain to you guys how aggravated I am with myself right now. Seriously, I'd waited all day, trying to figure out if I bought the case on UA, and I finally vote him and completely punt the game away.

[Spambot]

Don't bother. The title says game is over.

whatever.

[Spambot]

Oh wait, I was scum. I forgot. 8)

[Spambot]

Yeah, sorry to Guardian. You were almost completely spot on the last couple days, and I can bet it was frustrating not being able to get anybody to listen.

[Spambot]

We owe most of the win to Yos. Him putting Kinetic into the other crypto role was pure brilliance.

Also, we didn't know who each other were at the start of the game. I thought Yos was town up until the point where he activated me. We won the game because he was made director, and played the role perfectly. The few misteps we had (me getting confused on the surveillance) and people almost figuring out he switched the roles on purpose we managed to get people's attention off that just fast enough.

[Spambot]

Kinetic, you did fine. There were a couple posts these past couples day directed at Guardian that made me wince, but other than that you played pretty well.

Also, you had no choice but to say I was innocent. Guardian was the only one able to figure it out, but he couldn't prove anything and it was only a matter of time from there.

Occam's Razor is false.

[Spambot]

I'm not proud of it, but I basically just got away with lurking the entire game.