Mini 461 "24" Game Over. Roll Credits

[Kinetic]

Hi guys, I'm just catching up. Glad to be here. I should be able to make a more meaningful post later ^^.

[Kinetic]

Alright, I did most of my reread last night when I said I was interested in joining the game. I didn't take any notes, but I made some mental notes of how certain people were acting and not. I might have a more detailed analysis later, depending on how deep I want to go with it. But I think I'll start off by doing larger analysis on people who have intrigued me.

However, some of my mental notes:

First off, why are we not using the liaison to the State Department??: Check this out:

Request Intelligence report from Foreign Intelligence Agency regarding Terrorist/Suspect/

Player

(This might work better with the Mossad than with the FSB)

Note: I don't understand the last part in the parenthesis, but yea...

This may be meta-gaming, but thinking of this game like I would the show 24, if we are dealing with terrorists in CTU then it is quite possible that some of the foreign agencies might have information on players that were suspected of terrorism. This could be like FBI/CI Agent and give us a third possible investigation. And White House is useless if we have someone in the State Department. The gains from another investigation would double our output instead of just marginally increase it with White House. It also gives us three different methods to investigate and since the scum can only interrupt one with a NK, we would still be making out like bandits. Add that with monitoring from the Signal Intelligent Analyst, and we can have five people checked out within four hours. Even if one person is killed, we will learn two things from that, One, neither of the two being monitored sent in the hit and Two, the person they were investigating looks suspicious. I'm not saying that person is scum, but I would think an SIA should check them out for a little while. And since we can coordinate all these efforts through the Director's office to the point where none of the scum will ever know who is being targeted and what, then we have some power.

Second thing: FBI can be used as a role blocker! Arrest, that is EXACTLY what it is. Arrest someone who is suspicious, SIA two more and you handicap up to three scum.

I am kind of wondering why the scum havn't NKed anyone yet. They are limited by the same time limits that we are dealing with and we have been doing everything possible to wring every single action possible during the time limit. But not a single Bodyguard or Player has been killed yet... seems very odd.

Also, Yos, if you could call me into your office, there are a few other things I wanted to ask you.

That is all for now.

O, also

Unvote

, in case there was hanging from me. [/b][/i]

[Kinetic]

Honestly OTM I really didn't think CDB's post was that suspicious. Use the search function, you'll notice he was playing in no less than 3 games and moderating one in Coney Island. Plus, while I'm not positive, there is an 8 hour gap between Pooky's first and second votes, and I think the thread was locked at that point. CDB could have easily noticed that and since he was here anyway he most likely had read the first post well before the thread was unlocked and once the second post was made and the thread unlocked, he made his post.

While I'm not saying he is or isn't scummy, I doubt this can be considered "proof".

[Kinetic]

Mod: Question about the job switches.

According to what I understand of the game rules, the people who started the investigations, CTD and Xdeem, would be finished with their investigations at the end of Hour 4. They would get the results at the beginning of Hour 5, but theoretically they would not have been doing anything ON hour 5 for the investigations and could either start a different investigation starting on Hour 5, or even do a different job.

Due to the way they were sent from their jobs, I believe that their investigations should have finished, even if they are no longer at their posts when they would have received the results, those investigations should not have been interrupted. At least, if I am reading the rules correctly.

Other Players

Certain things overlooked about the job changes that I doubt anyone noticed: While Guardian and Eyceking have been FOSed because they got 'more powerful' positions, there was something else that I noticed. Specifically CTD is in a VERY suspicious position. The incredibly 'unuseful' Deputy Director. Add to that the scum have YET to use their Night Kill. I think we have the set-up to drop a scum into literally the most powerful position in the game. Since up till now CTD has been pretty much excused as pro-town (something I am not completely disputing), it would be a great cover.

I don't know if any FA is protecting Yos right now, but since I read Yos saying he didn't believe he should be guarded, and to protect the Crytos and Cops, either Yos knows something we don't know or he is in INCREDIBLE danger if CTD is scum.

Additional supporting evidence: Guardian, who many people believe is scum, was both being investigated by CTD and put in his post. If CTD's investigation cleared Guardian, he would have been sent into a more powerful field where he could be more useful. By creating this suspense, Guardian's guilt is still very much in question, which only helps the scum if he is town. However, it creates a great screen if he is scum.

(As for 'in-game' how someone could fake a coded message: I've thought about it this way. If everything we find about scum is coded, pretend that the scum are actually using a code. If they KNOW the code, obviously they can change what is in a coded message without anyone knowing before sending it to be decrypted.)

Eyceking, despite everything else though, feels very scummy to me. I don't have any direct evidence right now, since I wasn't looking for it, it is just more of a general feel. I also have a similar feeling from Xdeem right now and I'm going to be more critical in my analysis of the two of them.

I feel Xdeem is suspicious mainly because I felt his over-aggressive attitude was very... odd. I checked back in his completed games and noticed that in every game he was scum, he was overly aggressive. I his only game I looked at where he was town, he was still aggressive, but he seemed more... subdued... More on this later after I take a closer eye on previous posts and threads.

[Kinetic]

Of course WIFOM can be applied to almost... everything. We need to make some logical guesses and assumptions or else we will just be chasing our tails. We need to find the why, and look past the why not sometimes.

[Kinetic]

I think he's referring to "If Yos is killed, then we'd lynch CTD immediately." But even then, I don't think that would happen. It is hardly proof, its just amazingly suspicious, and I have yet to see any lynch on this site take less that 5 pages.

[Kinetic]

FA: Don't Field Agents have some sort of protecting ability, FA? Thats what I meant.

[Kinetic]

While I was looking at the map, I noticed that there is what seems to be a National Museum of Natural History right in the CENTER of DC... If we're sending Jack on wild goose chases, why not send him there? Seems like a place that could cause the most damage to DC, since it is very centralized.

[Kinetic]

Well the way I am thinking we need to send him somewhere, or else we are just going to be chasing our tails waiting for him to send us information that he doesn't know. Its centrally located, so if we do get a viable tip he won't be particularly far from any point, and who knows, maybe something will show up.

[Kinetic]

I don't think anyone is going to be that brazen Albert. The Museum is a big, very public place. This isn't an abandoned park near a memorial.

[Kinetic]

Check out the map, it looks like it is about the size of the White House, if the map is to scale.

[Kinetic]

Alright, I haven't been in this game very long, but I can say this behavior I've noticed from Guardian:

assigning an enthusiastic but newer and maybe easier to read player would be better? If CdB or Yos gets assigned "mafia" roles, I could see them really screwing us over. So, I'll start off with vote: YogurtBandit

Post #6, Guardian
Guardian attempts to assign a newbie to Director.

unvote vote: Guardian. I don't want Yogurt to be director if he doesn't want to be / doesn't think he'd do a good job, and I think being director would be awesome, I think I would be very competent at it, and I think that it would be one of the most fun experiences playing mafia ever. And I'm pro-town Wink.

We definitely don't want a director who doesn't want to be director; when you post after this post, say if you would be willing/interested to be director or not, that will narrow down the field and give us some info to go on, too.

Post #57, Guardian
Guardian actively campaigns for Director:

Yos, you seem scummy, trying to post a lot and throw around a lot of good ideas to get the nomination. If you are town, though I would like to be director myself, I would be happy with you being director.

Are you town, Yos?

And the throwing a lot of good ideas around in and of itself isn't scummy, but you are obviously campaigning for director; anyone who really wants to be director looks scummy to me; I look scummy to me, because director is a really important role, and scum would love to get it for themselves.

Post #66,67, Guardian
Odd, suspicious posts. The beginning of Guardian's second play. It seems here he knows he can't win Director, but he is now trying to taint the position because ANYONE who wants to be Director is OBVIOUSLY scum...

Meh. I can understand how the connections I am getting between YB and Korran may looks scummy from the outside. I am town though, and I think I would do a good job as director, and from the way they have acted towards me, I am pretty sure YB and Korran are town as well.

Post #126, Guardian
Guardian attempting to "hide among the sheep". It seems to me to be very suspicious that Guardian latched onto YB and my old player, Korran, very quickly with very little play from either of them. With YB's confirmed town, I think it actually makes Guardian MORE suspicious. I wouldn't think scum would purposely align himself with scum, especially with such odd behavior from both of them... The only thing I can gather is he KNEW they were town because he was scum, and because of that, he was trying to hide among them.

I am not sure. I have a healthy level of suspicion on everyone besides myself and YB and Korran. CTD I am most suspicious of, I guess, but I do not have particularly good reason for those suspicions, and this last post of his strikes me as helpful to the town.

Post #162, Guardian
Guardian continues to push this "connection" between these three players... It just seems so suspicious to me.

I lack the time needed to adequately explain how I feel about Yos right now, re: his thoughts about making me deputy.

Post #171, Guardian
Guardian seems to be getting very OMGUSy and anxious. His very scummy behavior has not only lost him the Director position, but has regulated his "partners" to relatively useless positions.

YB and Korran chose to associate with me. Xdaamno has been pushing suspicion on me all game. I have no control over either of those things.

Post #241, Guardian
Actually... you have been pushing that association Guardian, not YB or Korran... in fact Korran basically rarely posted, and when he did it was just emotional preteen jibberish. How you can read anything out of that, you must be psychic... or scum...

I'll provide a "LoT" (list of trust), purely based on gut feeling:

knows what he's doing, and is probably town:
UltimaAvalon
CrashTextDummie
Guardian

doesn't know what he's doing, but is probably town:
Albert B. Rampage
Korran
YogurtBandit

in the middle/undecided:
Spambot
Eyceking
Yosarian2 (but doesn't matter for this, really)
Xdaamno
ChannelDelibird

don't trust:
Off the Mark

I get this horrible feeling Yos Albert and Xdaamno are scum together. Look at the key positions they fill. I am picking up on some interactions, too.

Albert, it's hard to say my reasons for being suspicious are imbecile when I haven't even posted them yet....

Post #464, #524, #532
The rapid change between the first and second post is just... funny really. Albert has been SO TOWN to you for the whole game, then as soon as he gets a useful position, OMG He's Scum!

And in response to #532, you STILL haven't posted good reasons for anything...

-----

This isn't by any means comprehensive of Guardian's behaivior this game, but I can't help but feel he is the scummiest person alive in this game.

Vote: Guardian

[Kinetic]

Lynching is never done for the sake of lynching. Each death brings us closer to something, whether it is one less scum or one less prospected scum. I agree, lynching an innocent is not what we want to do, but being completely scared of lynching an innocent on mistake that it causes us to take no action is better for the scum.

[Kinetic]

Yos: Hour 5 was extended 96 hours for me to catch up and because the mod is at Thespival. The hour will end at 1:30 AM tomorrow, so we'll know everything then. I'm actually VERY interested in knowing if the investigations actually finished... Theoretically the investigators don't need to be in their positions at the beginning of hour 5 since the investigations start at hour 1, end at the end of hour 4 with the results being delivered at the beginning of hour 5. But the player doesn't need to be there to continue the investigation during hour 5 since they could start a new one during that hour and the previous investigation doesn't actually do anything during the 5th hour. Since they were pulled off their jobs at the END of the forth hour, shouldn't the investigations finish and they are pulled off their jobs simultaneously at the end of hour 4?

[Kinetic]

Eyceking, despite everything else though, feels very scummy to me. I don't have any direct evidence right now, since I wasn't looking for it, it is just more of a general feel.

What do you mean despite everything else? You mean that while I appear pro-town for the large part, I also appear scummy? I guess I'll just keep playing the same way then until you bring some evidence up for me to refute wholeheartedly.

Actually, the despite everything else comment was meant more along the lines of, despite all the other seemingly scummy players and plays that I have read, you seemed to stand out.

I don't have any direct evidence because the opinion arrived after I re-read and stood back and looked at the players. I just had this odd feeling about you. I'm sure I can link the feeling to a more tangible display of evidence, but even then I am sure it would be a flimsy case at best. I tend to trust my gut on things like this, mainly because of a book I read called

Blink

. But basically the concept behind it is that the brain evaluates and processes information so fast that the conscious mind cannot keep up. These evaluations can be exceedingly accurate, or misguided depending on the situation.

That is why I stated it was more of a general feeling and not conclusive proof. I could very well be wrong, and I don't have a strong feeling that you are town or scum, but I am leaning toward one direction. I'll need more time to go over your posts and play before I can make a certain judgment, much like I went over Guardian's play. I am rather convinced that Guardian is hiding something, and his play seems to suggest that something is anti-town. With the lack of town power roles, it makes it easier to track down that if someone is hiding some sort of information that other players don't have, they can more certainly be considered scum. I have a similar feeling from you, but it isn't as strong, and I don't want you to take this the wrong way.

Anyway, refute away if you wish, but your hope to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that my gut instinct is baseless is complete hogwash. I am not the only one who feels that there is something behind your posts, as evidence from how other players seem to be keeping an eye out for you. You attempts to just 'brush this away' are akin to trying to just sweep your hand and dismiss the ocean, and won't dissuade me from pursuing this line of thought to its conclusion.

In other events, Albert, are you drunk?

[Kinetic]

Albert... where are you? Are you alright? Do I need to call 911? I have these friends, they are very nice, that have long white coats, and they have a nice white coat for you too, it even has very long sleeves, just for you.

Detox and get it together...

[Kinetic]

OTM, You see, I find Guardian's play to be quite the opposite as you. I refuse to think of anybody as town yet, even after the re-read I can find many reasons for anyone to be scum.

But since the beginning Guardian has played this "Naive newbie who is making dumb mistakes, slip-ups, and overall is just detrimental to any logical thought." But by looking at his other games I can tell that it is all just an act here.

He pokes randomly then gets 'suspicious' when someone asks why, he makes illogical leaps then gets 'suspicious' when someone points out his own illogical attitude, and he constantly changes his mind with little to no reason. He is either playing with inside information or has a wheel at home with everyone's name on it, he spins it ans says "the person who shows up is scum!" or "the person who shows up is town!"

I'll be honest, I'm not COMPLETELY sure that Guardian is scum, but he is by far the most detrimental player in this game. If he isn't scum I'll be surprised, but I still feel confident enough to keep my vote there.

[Kinetic]

I don't read that the same way you do.

I read that as: "I got my role, what do you mean you didn't get yours?"

[Kinetic]

I haven't recieved my role yet :O

Kidding...

Xdaamno is obviously joking. He read the first post and knows that townies didn't get roles and is making a joke about it. Since he knows that townies didn't get roles, we cannot use this to determine if he is or is not scum.

I also haven't received a role yet. Kidding? I'm a bit confused. I assume this happens after we elect the director?

Guardian, on the other hand, only read Xdaamno's post, or didn't read the first post carefully. If he had read the first post he would have understood Xdaamno's joke, and it wouldn't have confused him. I read from this that Guardian DID receive a role and didn't understand why Xdaamno wouldn't have received a role.

Obviously I could be wrong too, but I read that line when Guardian first posted it completely differently than it seems most people did.

[Kinetic]

I'm happy with

Guardian

as

a

terrorist

I can take people out of context too

[Kinetic]

I think it is very confusing,But I will get used to it.I think Guardian should be director

I don't know I just feel like guardian should!!!

Well I don't really know you people so I just chose Guardian!!

Well you are the only person I have seen before so thats why I chose you and reading through the posts made you seem like a great leader.

oh I meant from this game.Everygame I play somebody bloody is always suspecting me of bad when I never have been!!!!

FINE!!!!UNVOTE!!!!! I won't choose anyone then!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

tHank you

Hey my name's not K

Why not??

All I did is vote for him because he was the only one I sort of knew.I don't know who is the best to be director.to me it could be anyone.

Who to vote for,who to vote for?

Hey cool one person trusts me.

Well since Guardian's not gonna be director I'm going to get a crappy job so I don't give a shit who is director.It makes no difference to me

You post a lot Alberto

Fuck you if you don't beleive me nobody ever does.I wish I never found this fucking site!!

I meant every damn game evryone on everysite I play this at nobody beleives me.Ok

Good to see That only two people trust anything I say.

What I mean Is that there are only two people that aren't completely against me.

Just a summary of your posts. We're not all completely against you, we just want you to play. Contribute. This emotional garbage just doesn't fly dude. No we're not going to trust you or let you do anything important if we don't think you're competent enough to play Mafia in the first place, and writing one-line, uninformative, emotional garbage doesn't help us any.

I knew someone else posted this before, but I justed wanted to repost it again for you Guardian. You think that is pro-town play? I really can't fathom how you can think that is pro-town play. The only way you can know, without a shadow of a doubt that this person is a townie is if you aren't! I was seriously surprised when I got the role and Korran WASN'T scum. Then when I saw YB wasn't scum either, I figured it all out. You ARE scum Guardian, and you picked the two people you could manipulate and you grouped yourself with them. And guess what, you can't manipulate me like you could Korran, and I see through your little games.

Also: It is important to add the "Kidding?" at the end of Albert's quote of your text. That is what changes the context completely to me.

[Kinetic]

I was asking Xdaamno if he was kidding, as he had claimed.... quite obviously, imo.

Exactly! That is my point. You were asking him if he were kidding... Everything else I read into it was what I thought of why you were asking him. There are two schools of thought in this:

1. You didn't get a PM and asking him if he was really kidding or he didn't get one either.

2. You did get a PM, didn't read the first post, and were wondering why he didn't get PM.

My whole case is I believe the second likelihood more than the first. I could be wrong, but on top of all the other things I've read from Guardian, I'm more inclined to believe the latter.

[Kinetic]

I don't know, but if they were then the 'alibis' that Albert, OTM, and UA have just became mighty flimsy....

[Kinetic]

Yea, I happened to notice that. Quite interesting indeed.

[Kinetic]

I'll admit, UA seems very town to me too, but I have a real problem with people who say just because they came late they are definitely town. Re-reading, OTM you didn't try an flaunt it, but you did fall back on it a couple times. Albert, on the other hand, has used it as the crux of why he is town.

In addition, I feel the people who 'automatically trusted' the latecomers made the latecomers even more suspicious. It certainly didn't help that the people who accepted them so fast seemed to be the scummiest imo.

Now OTM, I personally didn't think you were too scummy, but I didn't rule you out either 'just because' you came late.

I really don't know who else is scum, and I really would like to see

something

happen. Either a lynch, a NK, an investigation finish, or anything that will give us some definitive results.

[Kinetic]

Also, I am having a big problem with Albert's arrogance and one-line posts. Its really starting to bug me. Scum or just a poor player? I'm leaning toward poor player, but it is still very aggravating.

[Kinetic]

And that makes it less true??

[Kinetic]

Off the Mark

Active

CrashTextDummie / Ibaesha

New Player

FrozenAtlantic(replacing ChannelDelibird)

Active

Albert B. Rampage

Active

, but detrimental
Guardian

Active

Spambot

Inactive

Havn't seen him in awhile
Yosarian2

Active

Xdaamno

Active

Eyceking

Slightly In-Active

Maybe leaving game
Kinetic

Active

UltimaAvalon

Active

Maybe we need to lynch a lurker. I'm not satisfied with the 'case' against FA, and I don't think that Guardian's

scumbuddies

'confirmed townies' are going to let us lynch him.

Updated Vote Count for analysis purposes:

3 Guardian (Yosarian, Kinetic, FA)
3 Frozen Atlantic (OffTheMark, Guardian, Albert)
1 Spambot (CTD)
1 OffTheMark (Xdaamno)
Not Voting: Eyceking, UA, Spambot

It takes 6 to lynch, and with time running out we need to lynch someone. I don't agree with the FA lynch. It seems SO opportunistic, and the three people on the list have irked me a lot.

I feel very good believing Guardian is scum, and the more I see it the more I think Albert might be as well but I'm very unsure about it. I think Albert's 'clearing' Guardian as town as soon as he entered the game was quite suspicious. I'm not convinced OTM is scum, but I think he's following Albert and Guardian because he thinks they're 'confirmed town'.

Spambot has been AFK almost the whole game, posting very rarely it seems. Eyceking I feel might be scum, but he's not posting a lot either so I can't be sure. Xdaamno could be scum but I feel rather confident with him being town. UA hasn't done anything scummie imo yet, and I think I can feel pretty confident with him being town. Yos seems just very town to me, I can't believe that he would be scum. CTD/Ibaesha I have no clue about.

[Kinetic]

I really don't trust FA. To tell you the truth I don't know if he isn't or is scum, but after talking with Yos a lot, I'm almost positive he's town. But I trust Guardian less. However, there have got to be more than one scum. As such, I'm going to do this:

Unvote, Vote: Spambot

He's second on my scum list, after Guardian, but I really think he might be scum, and I think it might be more likely for us to get something going now on his lynch and revisiting Guardian later.

[Kinetic]

Unvote

Yea, I really don't like my case on Spambot much either. Most of the reason I voted for him was so I could see if

something

happened, but nothing really did.

[Kinetic]

Wait a second... how exactly was the FDR Park one phrased? Remember, that was where the ambush took place. If we had an SIA on Yos during that time, you could basically tell us exactly what happened and see if Yos's story matches up.

We might not be able to confirm or deny the hack, but we can at least have more details, no?

[Kinetic]

I've got something even bigger. SIA's check in, who were you shadowing on hour 4. If no one was shadowing Yos, we might have actually gotten the 'hacker' as 'Yos' sending out those instructions!

[Kinetic]

OTM: It's just a guess, but if the SIA that sent that information to get decrypted was actually watching someone other than Yos, yet got the information that Yos said the hacker sent, then bam, we have the hacker.

[Kinetic]

OTM: Yea, I sorta just wanted confirmation from UA on that and also that it was UA's decrypted info and not the other SIA. Just want to check every lead sort of thing, making sure we're not overlooking it because it seems to fit right away.

[Kinetic]

UA: No need for attitude... I was just wondering. Who were you watching before Yos?

[Kinetic]

EBWOP: NM UA, I understand now.

[Kinetic]

Albert: What?

[Kinetic]

I still feel strongest about Guardian.

Vote: Guardian

I took it off earlier to try and see if something else would get going, but nothing did. I'm also not convinced that FA is any more scummy for RPing than Albert is for scummy being a dick. Granted they're higher than normal on my scum list, but that alone doesn't seem like reasons to lynch them.

[Kinetic]

As for the crypto position that Albert wants to vacate, I honestly don't think OTM is scum, he seems pretty town to me so I don't care if it is him. I am concerned by his association with Albert and Guardian, Guardian being my chief suspect and all, but I really don't have any problem with OTM at the moment.

I think I might have an idea that will make everyone happy, since suspicions have also been raised about FA (and I'll tell you the truth, I'm not completely convinced about him one way or the other), why not put FA as the other Field Agent, and put OTM or myself in the SIA position.

Also, Yos, I have a couple more questions, if you could invite me to your office when you get a chance.

[Kinetic]

nono, that's not what I meant. I meant move both me and OTM off of Field Agent, move both Albert and FA to Field Agent, then move both OTM and I to either Crypto and SIA. That way we'd sort of nail two birds with one stone.

[Kinetic]

17.) National Museum of African Art

I just clear this area as Field Agent before I was transferred.

[Kinetic]

White house liaison, imho, is useless or at very least not especially important. Seriously, we should have used State Department in the beginning because it had an investigation type ability similar to the FBIs. I think some people read the White House thing and pigeon holed it before even reading everything.

[Kinetic]

I'm having trouble with Guardian. Regardless of his alignment, I think he is playing badly – I don't understand how his suspicions have progressed at all, nor do I agree with his reasoning very often. Some posts from him seem good, and other ones just leave me wondering what the heck he was thinking while writing them. Also, friendly advice: stop saying "I'm a townie" all the time. It is just annoying, and that's about the only purpose it serves.

You hit the nail on the head there imo. He seems to make radical leaps with little to no basis, and what he does give isn't very substantial. He also expects that everyone should disregard any behavior he puts forth that seems suspicious because he considers himself a confirmed townie yet the facts don't line up.

Either way, at this point we're at the deadline. If I am reading this correctly we have three real life days (or less) before we lose a game lynch.

There seems to be a choice here, FA or Guardian, and I cannot fathom the argument against FA except that he has an interesting play style. At the very least his play style isn't needlessly disruptive like Albert's.

Maybe the main reason I don't find FA scummy is because I have extensive experience in RPing in forums in other settings, and in this game it just adds more to the flavor. Pooky is going all out on ever mod post and I like to think that FA is adding to that flavor.

[Kinetic]

PJ- Although OTM brought that up earlier, I didn't quite see it that way... hmmm. However I think what CDB might have been doing was saying not to do what Guardian or Xdaa did (by saying the didn't get PMs) because it would give the mafia the idea to either say that too or to lurk until prodded and come back with a convenient 'town' excuse. (Which is, imo, what Guardian did after he saw Xdaamno do it)

And I think if that is the only thing against him, the case against Guardian is much stronger.

[Kinetic]

This is getting lost in the shuffle guys:

Hour 8 Begins 1:30 AM 7/23, ends 1:30 AM 7/26

We are DEADLINED to lynch in under 8 real life hours if we must lynch by hour 9. Although all these arguments are rather interesting, and will play a part later, but we need to stop with all the distractions and get down to business.

Everyone who does not have a vote on anyone is highly suspicious to me right now. Anyone who doesn't have a vote on either Guardian or FA is slightly suspicious to me right now.

[Kinetic]

O... I thought that we finish the lynch now, then it actually takes place at hour 9. Isn't that how the last lynch took place?

[Kinetic]

OTM: I think anyone is willing to make the hammer vote if its a choice between a possible mislynch and no lynch at all. I personally feel the same way and anyone who is pro-town should feel that way.

[Kinetic]

ok, I must have misunderstood then... well that means we have extra time, but I'd hate to waste it....

[Kinetic]

1. The early CDB post where he tries to stop townies from confirming themselves.

Which is barely anything other than he didn't want townies giving the idea to scummies, unless they already used it

2. Suspicious vote on YB

According to everything I've read on vote mechanics, it is the third fourth, and in early games the fifth votes that are the most suspicious. [ 7 YogurtBandit(Albert, Yosarian, OffTheMark, CrashTextDummie, EyceKing, Frozen Atlantic, Spambot) ] In this case, this puts OTM, CTD,and Eyce(PJ)more suspicious than FA. The only reason FA's vote is 'suspicious' is because it was done while RPing.

In addition, this is the first I've read about this (when it was originally brought up about, O, I don't know.. the post before the one I'm quoting...)

3. Roleplaying to say a lot while really saying very little

Which isn't a scum tell. It is just a way of playing.

4. Generally unhelpful to the town

And while I agree on this to a certain point, he at least hasn't been detrimental to town.

[Kinetic]

Kinetic, I really don't like that backhanded and untrue point against me.

Actually that was pointed at Albert. I'm still bothered by his detrimental attitude which I have pointed out in multiple posts.

[Kinetic]

I can have multiple suspicions though. And quite clearly I don't think FA is as scummy as the vase that has been made against him. It doesn't help that my top suspect (you), and my second highest suspect (Albert) are both the ones pushing the FA wagon.

[Kinetic]

EBWOP: vase = case

[Kinetic]

I wouldn't trust an Albert lynch at this point. I agree he's scummy but I think if everyone quickly voted him it would look WAY to odd and I think we might just grime up the wheels of anything.

[Kinetic]

Well its Guardian, he'll vote anyone that isn't him at this point.

[Kinetic]

I thought a lot of the switches were just chock full of WIFOM goodness. Besides the disrupting of investigations, I didn't read much further into it. And the targets were both Guardian and Yos, and for all we know both or neither are scum. But the messing up of the investigations just made it so that either scum were trying to dodge a bullet, or just make it so there were no confirmed townies. Either would hurt them imo.

Originally I thought that maybe the reason they moved Guardian was either to get him more suspected and I started to think that might make him more town. But then I thought that didn't make sense mainly because he was already one of the major suspects suspect at that point and the switch would actually take some suspicion off of him. So I dropped that line of thought mainly because it felt like I could try and read so much from it and be left with nothing at all.

[Kinetic]

Didn't even notice this page.... >>

[Kinetic]

Is Albert really at -1?

Bleh. For all his distracting double talk, I'm really not sure if he is scum. He's high on my suspect list, but my gut keeps telling me that Guardian is much more likely than he is.

[Kinetic]

PJ: It was when we were talking about sending jack to that Museum. My idea, which I relayed to Yos, was that we say in the thread why not send him there, but to have Yos really send him to the place across the street and to inform Jack of this and see if anything happens at the museum.

It was designed to see if Jack could capture a terrorist and sort of spring a trap on his trap, but also to see if something happened at the Museum. Since only Yos and myself were in on it, and I was fairly certain Yos was town, I suggested it.

I thought, worst case scenario, if Jack got ambushed at the mall, there would only be 2-3 people who could have said anything. Myself, Yos, or if a SIA was looking in then the Crypto who deciphered that.

In the end, nothing happened though because in part I think OTM got everyone scared to do anything.

[Kinetic]

Also, Albert, at that time I was a Field Agent and I was protecting Yos, he was perfectly safe.

[Kinetic]

That's not true. I knew who I was protecting.

[Kinetic]

-.- >> I'm totally unsure. I really don't think Yos is scum, but that does make some sense... But I am so sure that Guardian IS scum...

Bleh, I'm going to think it over.

[Kinetic]

Unvote

For now. I'll be here before deadline.

[Kinetic]

Can we get a Vote Count here?

[Kinetic]

3 Guardian (Frozen Atlantic, Spambot, Yosarian)
2 FrozenAtlantic (Albert B. Rampage, OffTheMark)
1 Spambot (Ibaesha)
2 Albert B. Rampage(Guardian, UA)

Want something done, why not do it yourself.
This might be off.

[Kinetic]

Vote:FA

I don't really feel right with this over Guardian, but I think I'm going to go with this for now.

[Kinetic]

hehe, pestering pooks.

[Kinetic]

hammer = 6, if you two vote thats only 5

[Kinetic]

3 FrozenAtlantic (Albert B. Rampage, Kinetic, OffTheMark)

I count 3...

[Kinetic]

I'm not an idiot.

Really? You had me fooled.

[Kinetic]

I'm not an idiot.

Really? You had me fooled.

<3. I've really played that badly eh? .

Well, I wasn't going to say anything.

[Kinetic]

If EST, 5 minutes, I thought it was board time though, which is 1 hour

[Kinetic]

Guardian, earlier I was just joking with you . Just wanted to clear that up, I don't REALLY think you're an idiot. Just a little.... slow.... jkjk

[Kinetic]

>>

[Kinetic]

>><< I was awake because I had some things to finish (see I'm addicted to WoW...), but just.... wow...

I didn't realize FAs could do that.

PJ, I think you jumped the gun (quite literally), but I really didn't (and still don't) feel like you're scummy. I think that you should have waited a tad bit, because I could have told you that OTM in my opinion seemed very town. And I'm pretty sure others would have echoed my sentiments.

But yea, this puts us in quite the pickle.

I'm really too tired to do some serious thinking, but this is just chaos now.

Vote: Guardian

No more talking out of this one. I've trusted my gut in this game and every time I'm convinced otherwise I get screwed. My gut was right on FA, it was right on OTM, and I'm sure its right on Guardian.

[Kinetic]

Oh Jesus, you guys got busy after I slept...

On the one hand, I still like my Guardian -> Albert connection. On the other hand, OTMs death puts in perspective that if he was town,

I always felt there was something weird between Albert and Guardian. I am pretty much sure that Guardian is scum now, and whatever doubts I had about Albert being scum are pretty much washed away now too. I keep going back and reading the conversations before lynch. Guardian squirming, even at one point selling out Albert. Albert's refusal to ever vote Guardian and push toward the FA lynch. He even had me doubting Yos and so I finally trusted him and BAM, FA is exactly as I suspected.

I never thought OTM was scum though. He played completely differently than Albert, and I felt like Guardian was trying to pull him into the fold like he did to Korran early game.

[Kinetic]

I'll tell you the truth ibaesha, I was starting to doubt the Guardian wagon earlier in the day. Something was tugging on me that just didn't feel right. It was creeping up on me.

Later in the day, when Albert made a few really good points are started to doubt more. I'll admit, I still wasn't quite sure about FA, but I was jilted enough to think that it was possible.

Looking back on it now, I realize I was being manipulated and I don't want that to happen again.

[Kinetic]

My top suspects right now are Guardian and Albert.

Hey, Ibaesha, you should be having an investigation coming in soon, no? If I'm not mistaken you could have that sent to me and we could have it decoded before the next lynch. Since the mafia has no way of interrupting you that we know of, would it be safe to say who you're investigating now and how much time is left before I get the report?

[Kinetic]

I wasn't trying to fish for any investigation, its not like we don't know you're a cop... I was just hoping for some sort of lead maybe. If you think it's more prudent to stay tight lipped, alright.

[Kinetic]

Just would like to note for everyone who is not paying attention:

We are currently in Hour 10, which means we have less than 72 hours until hour 11, when we can lynch again. It is very important we lynch during hour 11 because we know that scum can kill again in hour 12. We don't know what effect this will have on the vote, but I can only assume it will be negative.

I hate to put pressure on anyone who has not voted, but realize that time is of the essence and we need to lynch someone in the next six days. If we don't, we lose our chance to lynch before the mafia NK.

I don't know the exact ruling on what will happen if we agree on a lynch before the time arrives, but I assume that either the game will fast forward to the next day (since nothing really will happen except hour actions until the lynch) or the character will just be 'left hanging' until the lynching hour. A mod clarification on this event would be helpful. Thank you.

[Kinetic]

Unvote

Not explaining why right now, I'll explain later... maybe.

[Kinetic]

Alright, now that it is hour 11 and I actually

have

the information, I can reveal it to the town. Last hour I got an investigation and began decrypting it. Pooky just sent me the results. Spambot has been found innocent by Ibaesha's investigation.

If there was any possibility to Guardian's case, it lay in Spambot being found guilty. So when I received the notification that I had an investigation on Spambot to decrypt, I decided to play it safe and make it so he couldn't be hammered before I knew the results. Well they're in now.

Vote:Guardian

[Kinetic]

3 hours for lynch. We can lynch this hour as soon as we make a decision, in fact, it is important, ney

essential

that we lynch in this hour. Your stalling is just helping the scum Albert.

[Kinetic]

Also, a flaw in your main theory Albert: Guardian is at -1 and Ibeasha hasn't voted yet. Ibaesha can't be scum and Guardian town or else Guardian would already be dead.

[Kinetic]

At the beginning of the game Guardian was campaigning to be Director. He failed. As soon as you arrived, low and behold Guardian said you'd be the perfect Director. You failed.

Ever since then you two have lead a crusade against Yos, then every time someone called you on your BS you backed up and said you thought Yos was town. You can't have it both ways.

[Kinetic]

I am obvious

scum

with Guardian. Your just trying to get a

scum

lynch.

Fixed for you.

[Kinetic]

Pooky

:
Yos still has a carryover vote on Guardian that he never unvoted.
UA voted for Guardian on post #1487

Guardian is at -1

[Kinetic]

Guardian, the only scum is you. I'm not being scared into unvoting you because of your vague threat.

[Kinetic]

Guardian, this is hilarious to watch you squirm your way around here. You nearly got lynched last time and I'm kicking myself for letting you get away in hour 8. You fight and fight to get people to believe that Spambot is scum, how could you know your only chance was kicked to the street when CTD/Ibaesha investigated him. So what happens when the results come back and prove you wrong?

Why you and Albert cry about how the results must have been faked.

You're unbelievable. I'm not unvoting you and I'm not jumping on any other bandwagon because I wholeheartedly believe you are scum. I am not letting an impending deadline give you more room to wiggle your way out. I am not letting you stall until the end of the hour where you can get another kill off and tip the scales some more.

And I am not letting you intimidate me.

[Kinetic]

With four townies, all the scum have to be on my wagon. As such, Kinetic is the obvious play, because if there are two scum and he is town, we win, and if there are three scum he logically *has* to be one of them as I demonstrated earlier.

Who is 'we' Guardian? Freudian Slip? You just said that if you lynch me and I come up town than 'we win'... We're at lynch or lose....

Just... Wow...

I realize that isn't most likely what he means, but maybe he was typing too fast and missed his logical slip up there...

All I can see is Guardian making a desperate last minute attempt to lynch one more townie so that he can win the game. He continually wants to just get the votes off him, on to whoever, so that if there is a townie he can hammer them.

His accusations are just as wild as they have been all game... Earlier in the hour he was 'convinced' Spambot is scum, and then he is proven wrong. So he then changes his toon: No Ibaesha must be scum then with Guardian!! But I proved that if by some possibility he was town and Ibaesha was scum, then he would have been hammered. So what does he do? I'm scum now. Its all ludicrous.

I do not believe that Guardian is town, and so I'm just disregarding everything he is saying now because I know where its coming from. He can say all his enemies are on his wagon, but what is that but Giant OMGUS?

Let me explain the much more simpler explanation: Guardian is scum. Most likely Albert is his scum buddy. At least 3 out of the four people on his wagon are town. PJ/Ibaesha don't want to hammer Guardian because either A) They are town and want to try and give Guardian the benefit of the doubt and see if he can convince them he is not scum, or B) They are scum and trying to give Guardian as much time to try and dig himself out of this hole before they bury him if he fails.

That's the way I see it.

[Kinetic]

No Ibaesha must be scum then with Guardian!!

EBWOP: Bleh, that should be "No Ibaesha must be scum then with

Spambot

!!"

[Kinetic]

No Ibaesha must be scum then with Guardian!!

EBWOP: Bleh, that should be "No Ibaesha must be scum then with

Spambot

!!"

Umm... I don't know what happened with the last one... phpbb slip up??

[Kinetic]

Who is 'we' Guardian? Freudian Slip? You just said that if you lynch me and I come up town than 'we win'... We're at lynch or lose....

We is the town.

I think that if I am town it is fairly obvious that all the scum are on my wagon.

Therefore, if you come up town, then Spambot is town, and there were 2 scum in the game, and we lynch Yos and UA, and we win.

If there were 3 scum in the game, you are definitely one of them. Lynching you is win-win.

So let me get this straight....

You just justified lynching me, then "even if I am town" you have a back door out of it because there might only be two scum?

If there are only 2 scum (which, this is the first time I ever heard this possibility...) then I think its perfectly obvious who those two are. Albert and Guardian...

[Kinetic]

So let me get this straight....

You just justified lynching me, then "even if I am town" you have a back door out of it because there might only be two scum?

If there are only 2 scum (which,

this is the first time I ever heard this possibility

...) then I think its perfectly obvious who those two are. Albert and Guardian...

Never heard it before, eh?

From my POV, it is definitely most logical for there to be 3 scum, and that means that 3/4 scum are on my wagon.

Albert, Ibby, and PJ are all beyond a doubt town.

Of the 4 on the wagon, if three are scum, Kinetic is the

logical

play for today. Here is why:

If Spambot is scum, Kinetic must also be scum, since Ibby is town and investigated Spambot, and Kinetic faked an innocent result.
If Spambot is town, Kinetic must still be scum, since 3 of Kinetic, Spambot, Yos, and UA must be scum.

What's even better is that if there are somehow (imo very, very remote possibility) two scum only

, if Kinetic shows up town then Spambot is confirmed and Yos and UA are the two scum.

Therefore, no matter what, by pure logic, Kinetic must be scum/is the play for today.

Excuse me for skimming/not reading most of your posts Guardian, they are all grasping at straws/the same. It gets repetitive.

[Kinetic]

Is it just me or does anyone else think Guardian would lynch his own mother if it would save him from this hour?

[Kinetic]

*Looks sideways at Ibaesha*

[Kinetic]

Guardian, I'm just reacting to the fact that you seem to be trying to lynch everyone but yourself.

I don't trust you for a second.

[Kinetic]

Vote:UltimaAvalon

[Kinetic]

lol

[Kinetic]

I have no idea what is going on >> Where is pooky?

[Kinetic]

Wow, it almost seems like Guardian is the best scum ever.

Too bad he's vanilla.

[Kinetic]

Ok, since we're done:

Guardian: I'm sorry for acting like a jerk to you for the past couple... weeks. It was all part of my game plan from the beginning. gg otherwise.

[Kinetic]

Yea, 10$s says Korran thought Guardian was the scum boss, since I wasn't activated when I originally replaced him. I came in the game and pretty much guessed Yos was the top dog. So I diverted all my attention on Guardian, knowing that if I was activated later and Guardian was scum I could just use it as distancing.

The gambit of having Albert "trick" me into voting FA I thought was perfect. No one suspected me, and the entire time I was trying to lynch Guardian he was DEFENDING me... o god I was hysterical at some points...

I'll tell you what scared me the most though, I thought I was playing great as nobody was suspicious of me. Then Ibaesha sent me that report. If it was ANYONE but Spambot, I could have played it off, but since it was him I knew that it was going to be the biggest gambit I played so far. And it sort of stumbled and nearly blew up in my face. I pretty much had no choice on how to play that one other than pronounce him innocent since Ibaesha knew who I was being investigated.

[Kinetic]

Ha. Well thats why I was always very careful on what I posted. I never wanted to outright accuse a townie, especially if I was being a Pitbull on someone. Since that someone was Guardian, and Albert to a lesser extant, I always left the door open that anyone could have been the third scum.

Ibaesha, you were the one I was most afraid of figuring me out. You seemed to be nearly there once or twice in the game.

[Kinetic]

Yea, some of my own posts against Guardian made me wince too >> but I had to continue my all out attack on him. If I flinched for a moment I would have been the one lynched.

[Kinetic]

haha

[Kinetic]

I'm still laughing at how Guardian, for the entire game couldn't realize I was mafia until it was too late. I mean, he made really complicated stories to free me from blame. I think the Ibaesha screwing up the Spambot verdict was hilarious.

[Kinetic]

lol. What exactly was the deal with Anix? Was he replacing someone?

[Kinetic]

Really Yos? Ha, I would have come out to you if I knew you were searching for me. I had you pegged as mafia from my first read-through.

[Kinetic]

Also Guardian, about the PMs, honestly I think that was your gravest mistake. Everyone who claimed not to got a PM played loose and fast, it was easier for us to make it seem like you were playing a game rather then being serious.

[Kinetic]

Also, that one conversation between me and Yos via PM that was eventually posted:

That was me trying to get Yos's trust, with Yos trying to be as townie as possible toward me. I wasn't activated and he didn't know I was also mafia. When Albert demanded to know why Yos posted Jack's movement that one time int he thread, it was priceless that we had such a perfect set up prepared to deflect blame off of both of us at the same time.

[Kinetic]

I'll agree that a lot of misdirection is needed, however the mafia couldn't even kill until all the members were activated. Until then they are virtually townies that could get revealed at any moment.

I think if Yos wasn't the director mafia would have stood no chance. I mean with the possibility of up to five cop rolls (SIAs if they were watching us would have seen our Night Kills or if we were communicating out of thread), and three cryptos, you could have made it very very hard on us. However since Yos was director we had a full proof way to communicate out of thread without SIAs noticing.

There was a few things that I noticed the town could have done better with. The first and foremost would have been a mandatory Director change every four hours. It would have forced the Director to always maintain townie decisions, and also to vacate his spot.

SIAs constantly changing which crypto they sent information to, having three cryptos so its a big game of wack a mole for mafia if they try to kill a crypto.

The problem is the only way to coordinate these things is with a non-scum director. A revolving door director would not have exactly made it sure that the scum couldn't get the position, but it would have forced the director to act in the interests of the town either way. And if there WAS a problem the Director could be forced to step down on threat of lynch and then basically put in a useless role (or no role) until an investigation is concluded on them. Or they could be lynched depending on the circumstances.

The way I saw this game being played by town, of which it wasn't, was a revolving door where no one was in the same role for more than 4 hours. I think the fact that the town played so stiffly and the mafia was improvising and making up new tricks throughout the game was the reason mafia won.

At least, that is my analysis of the game. Town played it too much like it was just town vs mafia, even though they had so many goodies to play with.

[Kinetic]

Well I had those ideas in my hat while I was reading the game and I'm pretty sur I could have gottent he town behind them. Problem was I got my role PM and it said I wasn't a townie, so I kind of shelved those ideas... bleh

[Kinetic]

rofl

[Kinetic]

lol go Anix?

[Kinetic]

Death Scene Summary:

UA was killed when Kinetic pushed him in front of a truck. UA never saw it coming.

A few minutes later, Spambot found PJ in the bathroom and otherwise defenseless. He wasn't even able to shake it twice before the silenced bullet took him out.

With the strange deaths happening Yos decided to get to the bottom of it. He called Ibaesha, Guardian, and Albert into his office to figure out who were the terroists. After they all entered, they found Yos no where to be seen. Looking around the room Albert found a note to close the door once everyone was inside and Yos would be there in a moment. Without thinking Albert closed the door, triggering the 20 pounds of C4 under the desk. They recovery squad couldn't even find a piece larger than an ear lobe of any of the three.

Jack Bauer was told that the bomb was found somewhere in Montana, and sent on a plane to go help disarm it. That plane was never found...........

Happy UA?

Of course none of this happened if Pooky has something else in mind.

[Kinetic]

Psh, any promises or bets or anything made in a game thread are non-binding after the game ends. Thats how I roll.

[Kinetic]

UA fell back too much on his late coming proving his innocence, just like you and OTM did. It made you all reckless, even if he didn't push it like you did. His stubbornness late game was expected because he thought without much doubt that Yos and I were town. He might have followed a Spam vote, but I'm pretty sure he believed my claim. When PJ and Ibae targeted him, instead of unvoting and saying he would evaluate more, like he should have and which might have saved him, he planted his feet and refused to listen

To be honest, I counted on him acting like that. But that being said, even if we didn't last ditch on UA at the end, I'm pretty sure Guardian was dead no matter what. There was no way you guys were getting all 5 town onto one of the scum because you couldn't decide who was scum or which one to kill. As such, Guardian would have either been deadline lynched, or when scum killed Albert or PJ, he would have been time lynched.