Mini 1624: Joss Whedon Mafia: The Musical (Game Over)

[eyestott]

Damnit, i have to go. I really wanted to see what Medea flipped before i go, but

[eyestott]

Boonskies is off the hook.
He is indeed an inventor.
I recieved the Mind link. I have a one shot ability.
If only DGB were in this game.

[eyestott]

So, we really should massclaim, in my opinion.
Also, I believe that Anatole was not made a lightning rod, but was given one and happened to die.
Which means that egg needs to claim first, as he said he thought his N1 action was affected by this.

[eyestott]

My prefered Claim order:
Egg
F16
Antihero
JBVTB

[eyestott]

My prefered Claim order:
Egg
F16
Antihero
JBVTB

I want to know what your ability is. Also did you claim?

[eyestott]

My prefered Claim order:
Egg
F16
Antihero
JBVTB

I want to know what your ability is. Also did you claim?

To be clear, what I'm saying is
I want to know what your ability is. Also did you claim?
I've claimed multiple times.

[eyestott]

Actually, I would prefer if F16 revealed first.
Now, preferably, so that I will have time to question you.

[eyestott]

That is, if you claim a PR.

[eyestott]

Why should egg be the first?
I'm a VT, I have a one shot Neighboriser.

[eyestott]

I claimed, now I pick you to claim.
I had claimed VT earlier, but now Im claiming my invention.

[eyestott]

Im drawing attention to this conversation with F16. As soon as I made the point that he should be the first to reveal, silence. F16 really looks like he is avoiding a reveal like the plague.

[eyestott]

Would you say your role is investigative, manipulative( preventing things or boosting things) or miscellaneous?

[eyestott]

Well, f-16 is gone, and without a claim, which I have duly noted.
While you're here, and I'm awake, could you claim instead?

[eyestott]

Are you familiar with the character?

[eyestott]

In your flavour, has dark willow been mentioned at all?

[eyestott]

Okay, that makes flavour sense, given that you just have a Roleblock.
Is your Roleblock a named spell?

[eyestott]

INTERESTING!
I looked again at the flavour for receiving the mind link.
Turns out, at some point during the night I blacked out.
This could possibly be a nod to being RBed.

[eyestott]

VOTE: eggfor stupidity.
UNVOTE: egg as it was a joke.

[eyestott]

Wait this is Buffy the vampire slayer? My ex would kill me for not knowing that. (Just googled dark willow because you made me curious).

Preview edit: I'm apparently freezing people with my powers.

Oh.
Maybe I blacked out because I was high.

[eyestott]

I'm back.
Post soon.

[eyestott]

F16, can we just be buddies? I kind of think you are town even though you don't really matchup to my very limited encounters with town-you. Granted, me reads have been volatile and mushy and I'm really trying to exit that mire. It'd help to actually talk to you about things that aren't us, because it reallllly feels like we are beating a dead horse when talking about anything meta or hypothetical related to our slot. Whats your opinion on Eye right now?

I'm conflicted on EyeStott. I initially had him as town for his early play. I listed out my reasons in Post 1869. I'm not as sure now and I don't follow a lot of his later play. I'm not sure why he's clearing Boon just because Boon is an inventor as role confirmation =/= alignment confirmation. I'm wary that he's one of the few reads that Regfan disagreed with me on and his thought process is all over the place but I don't know how much of that is actually alignment indicative.

Boon's town play is sloppier than his scum play. I did say he is off the hook. My main reason for scumreading him was for how contradictory his claim was. Now that his role is confirmed to me, my main reason for scumreading him is moot. He could be scum, but i dont think he is.

[eyestott]

I'm conflicted on EyeStott. I initially had him as town for his early play. I listed out my reasons in Post 1869. I'm not as sure now and I don't follow a lot of his later play. I'm not sure why he's clearing Boon just because Boon is an inventor as role confirmation =/= alignment confirmation. I'm wary that he's one of the few reads that Regfan disagreed with me on and his thought process is all over the place but I don't know how much of that is actually alignment indicative.

I really wish I had a better handle on Eyestott since it feels like we've discussed him a lot. He is definitely more experienced than he keeps saying he is and I simultaneously dislike him discounting himself and sort of like that he had the gall to actually switch accounts because he thought people were giving him too much credit for his join date. I suppose its possible that his decision to switch accounts wasn't specifically to do with this game and was more of an 'in general' thing across the site that he carried over here. He's spent a LOT of time trifling boon over Boon's role, but that does match with him saying he prefers to hunt on flavor/setup. His entire stance on Boon is weird to me and I have wondered at times if they are just scum theatering it up. Dropping his suspicion on boon because boon gave him something is just weird, since he even said at one point he couldn't believe Dr. H was a totally town role. At the end of D3, they both spent connecting each other to Medea and Boon's vote on Medea mentioned getting a better read on Eye (?). Since the Medea ml they both seem fairly happy with each other.

FYI, here is how much experience in forum i have.
2 horrible (I mean like, the worst youve ever seen) games in 2009 under the username Skitzo.
1 game around the same time on playdiplomacy, which was equally bad. I mean, I was a town who was a godfather enabler, and would win with the town if the godfather died before me. I played against my wincon and told the town to lynch me so he would show inno.
1 completed modded dethy offsite.
2 completed games, and one completed game offsite, with 1 abandoned game in my current stint, and I am currently in 7 games.


My switching accounts was primarily because of House on Haunted Hill, ETL's Newbie game.
I could only see Boon switching alignment if Penny existed in the game, as her death is what causes Dr Horrible to change.
At the time you made this post, Boon hadnt posted since the ML. Why do you think he is happy with me?

[eyestott]

F16, can we just be buddies? I kind of think you are town even though you don't really matchup to my very limited encounters with town-you. Granted, me reads have been volatile and mushy and I'm really trying to exit that mire. It'd help to actually talk to you about things that aren't us, because it reallllly feels like we are beating a dead horse when talking about anything meta or hypothetical related to our slot. Whats your opinion on Eye right now?

I'm conflicted on EyeStott. I initially had him as town for his early play. I listed out my reasons in Post 1869. I'm not as sure now and I don't follow a lot of his later play. I'm not sure why he's clearing Boon just because Boon is an inventor as role confirmation =/= alignment confirmation. I'm wary that he's one of the few reads that Regfan disagreed with me on and his thought process is all over the place but I don't know how much of that is actually alignment indicative.

Let's talk about Nacho as well - he came into the game hard-townreading you and heading off Regfan telling him not to drown in his own ego etc which made Regfan townread him very hard. To some extent I want to trust that but I also think that Nacho hard-townreads and derails wagons as both alignments so it shouldn't be conclusive. The biggest reason I leaned town on them is that Nacho's posts were incredibly different from Final Fantasy 10, his last scumgame and are a lot more involved and engaged. How does it compare with him as your scum partner in Tales?

I'm much better now than i was D1. At the start of D1, I was only at the start of 1 other game, and my last finished games were my super crappy ones.
Seriously, like, at that time, my most recent games were games where i was like this:http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p1866151
I wasnt sure how skilled i was at the start of D1, but now I know my strengths.

[eyestott]

Ill be reading up now.

[eyestott]

Ok, what are you feeling about Jesus's recent posts? What about Boonskiies makes you think he is town now that his role is confirmed? If you had to guess the remaining 2 scum right now, who would you guess?

I looked at their recent posts, and I'm happy that theyve started posting again.
With Boon, I took a look at some of his town games. It matches what he said about him not being a great town player. For instance, In one game, he fakeclaimed cop as a VT, but it didnt work out. (Granted, that was one of his first games here, but still) Also, my main suspicion of Boon was because of his role, and his contradictions, which led me to believe it was a fakeclaim. Now that I have the Mind link (oddly enough, I thought i made a post near the start of the day where I described what happened, but i guess not. I got a 1-shot neighborise), I know that He wasnt lying about his role.
If I had to guess, probably F16, and egg.

[eyestott]

Here is what we KNOW:
We know that, in this setup, there is a Half-sane JOAT, An IC, A universal backup, a Bulletproof, a Mafia encryptor, and something that caused The bulletproof to not work. This heavily implies a strongman.
Now, unless Boon and I are the remaining scum, We know for sure that there is an inventor. We know that Boon must be said inventor unless he is a scum, and his buddy is the inventor. Now, I dont think anyone is doubting Boon's claim, so lets say:
Town: Half-sane Joat, Universal Backup, IC, Bulletproof
Scum: Strongman, Encryptor
Confirmed, but not alignment: Inventor
Claimed powers: Egg has claimed RB, I have claimed VT turned 1-shot neighboriser. Everyone else has claimed VT.
So, heres what I'm going to do.
name/role/Flavour name/N1 action/result/N2 action/result/N3 action/result
if something is blue, it is confirmed true. If Green, it is confirmed by another player, but not confirmed to be true in and of itself. Red means that a piece of information directly conflicts with another.



Boonskies/Inventor/Dr.Horrible/ Lightning rod to Anatole/ success, but unknown if affected or gave/Death ray to medea/ success, but was faulty/

mind link to eyestott(confirmed by eyestott)

/

success(confirmed by eyestott)

Egg/RB/Willow Rosenberg/ MoC/ ?/MoC/?/eyestott/?

Anatole/

Half sane JOAT

/

River

/?/

killed

Regfan/

Universal Backup

/

Echo

/

-

/

recieved Half-sane

/ ?/

killed

Marquis/

Bulletproof

/

Spike

/

-/-/-/-/-/killed

Medea/

VT/Lorne/-/-/-/recieved a faulty weapon

eyestott/VT/Marty Mikalski/-/-/-/-/-/

given mindlink (confirmed by Boonskies)

Serra/

IC/Dawn/-/-/-/-/-/-

JBVTB/VT/???/-/-/-/-/-/-

F-16/VT/Adelle DeWitt/-/-/-/-/-/-

MoC/VT/Extra from Dr.Horrible/-/-/-/-/-/-

Antihero/VT/Wash/-/-/-/-/-/-

Mikuru/

Mafia Encryptor/Phil Coulson

/-/-/-/-

Now, before we go further, I want to say that when i got the message saying i got the mind link, I was told that I blacked out, came to, and found it. That seems pretty similar to what Medea claimed, in that he wasnt explicitly given it by someone.
So, who could the strongman be?
Lets start off by crossing out who it couldnt be. It cannot be Serra. It is almost definitely not Boonskies, as he is all but confirmed to be an inventor. The only way Boon could be the Strongman was if his scumbuddy is the real inventor. It could viably be any of the last 6 people.
Another interesting thing: If we just look at the series that each character was in, we have: 2 Firefly claims, 2 Dollhouse claims, 4 Buffy+Angel claims, 2 Doctor Horrible claims, 1 Avengers claim, 1 Cabin in the woods claim, and 1 unknown.
I'm willing to guess that JBVTB is either a SHIELD character or a Cabin character.
Another thing we know is that, since Phil Coulson was not a bad guy, the actual characters everyone has claimed are likely to be true.
More analysis later.

[eyestott]

Eyestott is very town by this point: what do you think is questionable about his play?

As I said before, I think Egg is probably town if he's a roleblocker. I don't think scum leaving boonskies alive doesn't use at least one shot on him and Boonskies-Egg team seems pretty ridiculous to me

For one, as your hydra partners themselves pointed out multiple times, he claims that he is a newb but his play betrays a better understanding of the game than he is letting through. His reads don't make any sense and aren't anything that I can follow logically which is more null than scum for me but I don't see it making much sense from a town POV either. His reasoning for clearing Boon is also pretty weak.

Also, I know you normally tend to townread people to give them space. Has your townread on Ffery ever been of that variety?

What do you mean when you say my reads dont make sense? What are you talking about specifically? Why is it odd that I stop scumreading someone when my points are shown to be wrong?

The sentiment seems town though. I need to sync up with ffery. I really want today to be a proactive day though which means taking some hard stances sooner than later I hope. I'm still leaning towards Antihero/NAcho votes. I know F16 would prefer Nacho and Egg would prefer antihero of those.

I still want eyestott to at least acknowledge that I spent time talking about him.

I keep toying with the idea of actually looking at all possible scumteams and trying to eliminate some pairings I find unlikely. That sort of worked for me in comparative religion mafia.

I know have two players this game (both anti and mara) complaining about how I always misread them. You can both take that sentiment and shove it. I know I complain to Nero Cain every time he scumreads me, my alignment aside.

I acknowledge that you did?
I'm not sure what you want me to say?
Ive spread myself too thin as of late, and its showing in my games. If you want to talk with me, then great. What do you want to talk about?

[eyestott]

Sorry, this was supposed to be at the start.

Neither of them said very much about Istott. AA9 practically sat on a fencepost when talking about him in 393. My gut reaction to that is to think scum would try not to draw so much attention to JUST HOW NULL their read on a buddy is. One thing that has irked me about Eyestott and that I keep alluding to but never addressing is his opinion on AA9 in 372. AA9 was the only person he actually took anything of a stance on by calling her a 3 on his patented 1-10 scale. This was around the time AA9 was getting pressure from people (notably Serra) and Eye spends a lot of his realestate talking about something offsite and loosely concluding that AA9 freaking out is scummy. Meh.

Why does my correct scumread irk you? I mean, I was right. I dont know what you want me to say about this.

[eyestott]

Boon, given that your scumread on me was an associative, are you still scumreading me? Would you expect a scum player to lie or tell the truth about recieving an invention?

[eyestott]

Why does it confirm alignment? Can't a scum egg play along?

[eyestott]

Also, what if there's a Boon/Egg team? Easy RB claim, and boon actually gives the invention to scumbuddy.
P.edit: where did I say I didn't? It was certainly something that made me more likely to believe his claim.
Remember there was the doubt from Medea about whether it actually came from boon.
P.edit: wait, egg can't be a mafia roleblocker?

[eyestott]

Why does it confirm alignment? Can't a scum egg play along?

So you are aware that role confirmation is not alignment confirmation. Why did you assume so with boonskiies?

I've already addressed this, multiple times.
I was scum reading Boonskies because I believed he was lying about his role.
When his role becomes confirmed to me, I know he wasn't lying about his role, which means that my reason for scumreading him is no longer valid.
Do you understand?
P.edit: why can egg not be a mafia RB? I agree that a boon egg team wouldn't work.

[eyestott]

Not as strong as evidence right in front of me. I mean, however slim, there's was the possibility that Boon didn't give anything to Medea.
Once I got the mind link, it was confirmed.
Hey, what character are you?

[eyestott]

Okay, that makes sense.
So, we have 2 angel characters, 2 Buffy characters, and 1 both
We have 2 of firefly, dollhouse and Dr horrible, and we have 1 shield and 1 Cabin.
P.edit: what's your point?

[eyestott]

What's your point directed at Boonskies.

[eyestott]

I think I'd be willing to vote antihero.
Stop with the excessiv fluff plz

[eyestott]

@ JBVTB, what are your other reads besides Antihero?

Murder
Eyestott
Boonskies
Egg
F-16
. Antihero

My eyestott and Boonskies reads are generally interchangeable.

Same for me, except switch me with you, and maybe switch anti and F16 around.

[eyestott]

I think I'd be willing to vote antihero.
Stop with the excessiv fluff plz

shut the fuck up flavor mcgee
I'm excited

Can I put this in my sig? Who do I credit it to?
P.edit: go ahead.

[eyestott]

Sorry about that.

[eyestott]

BECASUE HE WAZ LUKING

[eyestott]

Is that at me?

[eyestott]

Why does it confirm alignment? Can't a scum egg play along?

So you are aware that role confirmation is not alignment confirmation. Why did you assume so with boonskiies?

I've already addressed this, multiple times.
I was scum reading Boonskies because I believed he was lying about his role.
When his role becomes confirmed to me, I know he wasn't lying about his role, which means that my reason for scumreading him is no longer valid.
Do you understand?
P.edit: why can egg not be a mafia RB? I agree that a boon egg team wouldn't work.

The thing that bugs me is this:

Medea claiming the gun wasn't good enough. I understand that. Their alignment was a question mark. But, then they flipped.

This shot down Boonskiies' medea/eyestott scum team. And yet, he still had you at null scum BECAUSE THAT'S WHY HE SENT YOU THE INVENTION according to him.

I've tried to poke at this but he doesn't answer questions half the damned time, or he replies to a question post, even quotes it, and posts some stupid tangent rather than an answer.

You bug me a little bit too, because there's no indication that medea's flip had anything to do with your boonskiies read changing and now you ignore the possibility of a scum inventor.

Medeaas flip had somewhat to do with it, but all I needed was the message I got from the mod saying I got a mind link for me be confirmed of Boons role.
It's still possible that boon is scum, but when your main points against someone are invalidated, do you townread them? Or do you find new reasons that they are scum?

[eyestott]

Not as strong as evidence right in front of me. I mean, however slim, there's was the possibility that Boon didn't give anything to Medea.
Once I got the mind link, it was confirmed.
Hey, what character are you?

It was slim as fuck but your read on Boonskies wasn't "oh he might be scum" at that point, it was "he's probably scum" still.

You also never responded to this unless I missed something.

That's true. Still, I don't know how Cabd plays, and it's possible that it was another gambit, but one cut short by a quick lynch.

[eyestott]

@ JBVTB, what are your other reads besides Antihero?

Murder
Eyestott
Boonskies
Egg
F-16
. Antihero

My eyestott and Boonskies reads are generally interchangeable.

Same for me, except switch me with you, and maybe switch anti and F16 around.

When the hell did we float to the top of your townpile?

Since like, most of the game?

[eyestott]

You're probably making a post about how you didn't know that I was townreading you, and I don't know why you didn't know either.

[eyestott]

Not as strong as evidence right in front of me. I mean, however slim, there's was the possibility that Boon didn't give anything to Medea.
Once I got the mind link, it was confirmed.
Hey, what character are you?

It was slim as fuck but your read on Boonskies wasn't "oh he might be scum" at that point, it was "he's probably scum" still.

You also never responded to this unless I missed something.

That's true. Still, I don't know how Cabd plays, and it's possible that it was another gambit, but one cut short by a quick lynch.

That was a big consideration of yours at the time?

Not "big" but still.

[eyestott]

Is that at me?

The last sentence is at you.

When did I say I don't read anti by the validity of his posts?

[eyestott]

VOTE: Vote: Vote Antihero
It's a good argument. I can't properly evaluate it till when I go to sleep then wake up (I should get around to sleeping. It's 5 am)

[eyestott]

You've not done anything scummy at all.
You've consistently scumhunted, and you've both been clear and concise with your opinions.

[eyestott]

Oh, and coherent.

[eyestott]

VOTE: Vote: Vote Antihero
It's a good argument. I can't properly evaluate it till when I go to sleep then wake up (I should get around to sleeping. It's 5 am)

I FEEL SO VALIDATED

[eyestott]

Also, there's the fact that a pretty convincing case can be made for almost anyone but you.

[eyestott]

You guys don't mind if I go to bed do you?

[eyestott]

Who am I kidding, of course you don't.
Night night.

[eyestott]

Huh, I now have one more post than antihero.
SUCK IT LOZER

[eyestott]

I'm stunned because I have trouble seeing my own play, especially day 1, in that favorable a light.

Will think about this.

Well, I'm talking more about your recent play.
I don't particularly remember day 1 all that well, and I just don't have the time to do another readthrough of the game.

[eyestott]

Agh sleep isaac, sleep.

[eyestott]

Huh. I need to take another look at the anti case.
I'm going to go back over what I said when I was half sane, and actually be (hopefully) understandable.

[eyestott]

UNVOTE:

[eyestott]

I cannot say anything about this game, until i recieve a reply from Bulba about something I cannot talk about.
Sorry for my lack of activity.

[eyestott]

And sorry for how cryptic that was.
Assuming I don't need a replacement, I'll explain, but will not go into specifics.

[eyestott]

I cannot say anything about this game

[eyestott]

eyestott, don't do that again

Wasnt my fault.
Sorry, though.

[eyestott]

This was a thouroghly enjoyable game. Thank you, everyone (especially Bulba)!

[eyestott]

eyestott, don't do that again

Wasnt my fault.
Sorry, though.

Don't tell Skype why you got force-replaced.
Also, don't say "it's an ongoing game but I'm not being specific" when you're not telling Skype why you got force-replaced.

Ah. Yes. That part was my fault. At that time, I didn't know what the correct course of action was, and I believe it was a weekend, so I needed someone's advice on whether I was compromised. I shouldn't have done it, though.

[eyestott]

Only thing i can think of: I cant really see an optimal play for your inventor, as they have no idea of knowing whether their invention will be given to the target, or used on the target, forcing them to generally give it to null reads.

[eyestott]

What I mean is, because the inventor was a mixture of one shot givers and one shot abilities, there's no way to pick the correct target for a death ray, as you have no idea if you'll give a kill to the target, in which case it should go to your top townread, or or if you'll kill the target, in which case the complete opposite applies. It's fine if you're not told at the start whether your inventions are gifts or actions, as long as they all work that way. Generally, a jack of all trades has all one shots, and an inventor has all gifts. I mean, surely an inventor would know if he's gonna shoot his target or give a gun to them. Having it be a mixture makes it closer to a dreaming God, in a way. Even If I knew what each inventor worked but not if it was a gift or an action, I would have no idea who to use the death ray on, etc.