Mini 429: Planar Chaos Mafia- Finally over (thanks ABR!)

[Ectomancer]

Shea? Jackie? This is practically secret code to those who dont know the names behind the players.

vote Thestatusquo

because Kison already agreed to be the daykill.

[Ectomancer]

Also, I think I might as well claim with this much pressure on me. I am a dayvig. I will kill the SHIT out of the first mother fucker who votes me. DON'T TRY ME, I AM ARMED AND FUCKING DANGEROUS MOTHERFUCKERS.

Yep, looks like you did.

[Ectomancer]

Unless the mod shows up and Kison is dead, my vote stays on TSQ until lynch. I was informed that we should lynch all liars.

[Ectomancer]

Now you're both a liar and someone who has to resort to personal attacks. Lynch all liars is a fine meta strategy. Let me state it clearly for you, I catch you in a lie, I lynch. You dont want to be lynched for lying, dont do it.

Big

FOS CPE

for supporting the crap logic that lying, for whatever lame reason, is a perfectly fine town action.

[Ectomancer]

TSQ, please dont mistake me for a moron. I understand we do things to get people to react. You dont corner the market on it. My play to get out of the random stage was to vote you for a lie that was clearly a joke to get things moving.
The first result was a for you to call me a fat chick.
The 2nd result was for your latest response to ignore calling me a fat chick and try to say the personal attack I referred to must have been when you said I was wrong?

I'd like an explanation for those 2 results.

[Ectomancer]

You are entirely missing the point CPE.
#1 I am not upset in the least.
#2 Personal attacks are used by someone who feels their case isnt strong enough to stand on its own, so they resort to attacking the character of the person involved. Its a bad argument style that means either they dont have more information to back them up, or they have information they cant reveal. This is Day 1 and it started in Day. I can only think of one group that would have information on other players that they would not want to reveal that they know.

[Ectomancer]

No, Im not mad and no, Im not a fat chick. Im 6'2 225lb of man meat, though I bet I look more like a Ribeye if you carved a slice. Nicely marbled with fat

My point about the whole fat chick thing was that it demonstrated a weakness in argument. Though town might do the same from time to time, it is one of my own personal tells I look for in scum. Because it came out after a pressure vote on you, it was my first negative mark on the TSQ scum-or-not card. I've gotten a little more comfortable with the answer, but I really wish people would not make these references to out of game situations or even refer to players as any name other than the one to the left when they post.

FYI, I still dont like lying, though what you did is a stretch of the term. It was harmless, not intended to hold up to scrutiny, and I doubt anyone took you seriously. Which, btw is a flaw in your theory that scum would jump on to the wagon. If nobody took your dayvig claim seriously, then you really cant make a case out of either town or scum being predicated towards jumping on that wagon. The better case that you could make is someone who finds you annoying is more likely to vote you, be they scum or town. But that doesnt really help us.

I understand what you were trying to do, so I'm willing to cut you a break and look elsewhere for now (though this line of thought is still here for later review). Between the 2 of us, I think more than enough content has been generated to sift though.

unvote

P.S. If I catch you in a non-joking lie, you can bet that I wont care if you "do it all the time as town". I'll be lynching.

[Ectomancer]

I've never played with quag. Has anyone here had more experience with him?

Anix believes him to have evolved into an assclown. That implies prior experience.

[Ectomancer]

Who is Starfox?

If the names registered to play this game cant be used, Im going to have to ask to replace me. Otherwise Im going to just start voting anyone who does it, and that wouldn't be fair to the rest of the town.
If I sound like a jerk, so be it. If you want people to call you a different name, you should have registered under it.

[Ectomancer]

I really dont give a rats ass if you find it childish or not. I've asked repeatedly for it to stop, and yet this little clique insists on doing it. Im tired of these references to shit outside of this thread, not restricted just to the names, but as an example, the reference to MTG:S. I dont think I need to quote every instance where it has been done. It would number over a dozen by now. Below is where I expressed opposition to this little habit. I think thats enough effort TSQ before I put the onus on the mod to deal with it.
If the mod wants to allow this to continue, have fun. Just get a replacement.

Shea? Jackie? This is practically secret code to those who dont know the names behind the players.

I've gotten a little more comfortable with the answer, but I really wish people would not make these references to out of game situations or even refer to players as any name other than the one to the left when they post.

vote Anix

for being a dumbass.

[Ectomancer]

Anix, you are a dumbass for trying to turn this into something personal between us, when it is an issue of this entire clique that insists on using other names than their forum name. Thank you for entirely missing the point and trying to misconstrue what I've said into an attack solely on your petty ego. I love the term Godzilla-like rampage. Best case of exaggeration I've read in a long time.
I dont throw childish tantrums, I stated the facts plain and simple. I quoted where twice that I brought up the subject, and it looks to me like it continued with your use of Starfox. I dont have a list of all of your screennames you use on AIM, other mafia sites or in your mothers basement. You appear to be associated with that clique, and your buddies have been throwing around other names the entire game, so yes, my reaction to it was entirely within my bounds. You are welcome to continue in any manner that the mod sees appropriate, I however will not be involved with people using outside names and conversations and refusing to drop their usage.

FYI, you could have ended this before it started by just

using the names you registered with

.

Oh yes, my kids have kids....Kid.

[Ectomancer]

5. Do not directly quote your role PM or outside conversations in the thread. Paraphrasing is ok.

I find using outside names falls under this ruling of not using outside conversation. It is confusing to other players. You can be familiar all you want, so long as you call people what they are known as on this site, or at least in this game. Still awaiting PWS to state his interpretation one way or another.

TSQ, Im not intimidated in the least by the gang attack on my request or motives. I stated twice politely that I didnt find it appropriate. The 3rd time was stating my intentions to request a replacement should the mod decide to ignore it.

One thing did come out of this. I've confirmed your claim that you lie constantly whether town or scum. You've twice stated that I started out bitching and moaning, when the following was an entirely polite way of broaching the subject.

Ectomancer wrote:
Shea? Jackie? This is practically secret code to those who dont know the names behind the players.


Ectomancer wrote:
I've gotten a little more comfortable with the answer, but I really wish people would not make these references to out of game situations or even refer to players as any name other than the one to the left when they post.


You could have taken either one of those opportunities to discuss what you were doing, but you didnt. Now, if you are quite done with the lies and exaggerations, lets get back to the game while I await a mod ruling on the use of outside names in the thread.

[Ectomancer]

I apologize to the rest of the players. I realize this should have just been sent as a PM directly to the mod to avoid derailing the conversation.
Carry on, I shall lurk in the meantime.

[Ectomancer]

I have had some experience with him. It is not unusual for him to push some one with no reasoning, but this one sit's uneasily with me.
Right now I can't think of any card in PC that would suit a jester though.
I think the bulk of the discussion right now is going no where.

I know it's not technically PC, but there was Stuffy Doll in Time Spiral. He/she/it might work.

(Also, in the process of rereading.)

Problem with Stuffy Doll is the indestructible part. Im not sure Quagmire's play is one of a jester either. Still, I'd like to hear why other than "he wants to" for his vote.

unvote

vote Quagmire

[Ectomancer]

I believe discussion last focused on The Prof. Quag and his refusal to play the game.

i believe that i'm playing the game, good sir

now we need to kill you in order to benefit the town

What benefit will the town derive from an Anix lynch? It seems not to matter to you whether he is town or scum, only that the lynch will somehow benefit the town.

[Ectomancer]

Right now, at best I could OMGUS AniX. I understand your reasoning, however that final sentence makes you a better play. It sounds like you are calling for a short end to the day by just lynching AniX and getting it out of the way. A short day one is not better for town.

[Ectomancer]

Aelyn, who do you think is the play today and why?

[Ectomancer]

You guys are killing me here with this talk of no information. We've got 7 pages here, and not a single one is wasted space. Are you kidding me?
I dont know about half of you from other games, Ive been in more than 1 game with a few of you. Guess what, the better you know the other players, the more informed decisions you can make.
Obviously we have some people who know each other well. Lets look at those relationships. We've had an excellent opportunity for observation of debate style where scum/town did not come into play. That gives a control group of observations to be used against the backdrop of scum/town plays.
AniX, TSQ, and CPE seem to know each other pretty well. This is going to give them, at the very least, an unconscious predilection towards trusting each other, and joinging in on the same side of an argument

even if not the same alignment in game

.
Quag and AniX seem to genuinely have known each other but had some kind of rift arise recently. Quag didnt join in to defend Anix as I believe he would have were they friends just messing around about being mad at each other. That leads me to believe Quag's push for AniX is just an OMGUS being pushed way too far and my vote sits well on Quag.
There's tons more in these 7 pages if you bother to look. Though my vote is sitting on Quag to get him to stop the OMGUS and to start playing, I know you'll find other good information to digest.

[Ectomancer]

Alright, tell me why you guys are voting Kison again?

[Ectomancer]

It's seems like we lost a lot more in this game then in some of the other ones I'm in.
I think quag is playing his normal style, and I don't like how kison went after him so much.

As in any social situation, if you dont approve of another person behavior, you bring about pressure in hopes of getting them to alter that behavior. Quag is not just insisting upon lynching Anix, he is providing little commentary to the rest of the discussion, and that exacerbates his toss of the dice, /paraphrase "Anix is most annoying/least useful whatever". If we were to accept Quag's theory that on day 1, any lynch is as good as another, then I also accept Kison's point, that for town, it looks like Quag himself is a better lynch target as Anix at least has been participating in the larger discussion.

[Ectomancer]

Cody, we're on page 9. Could you grow up, please?

i am. i just said that anix is our play today.

If Anix did not exist, who would your play be today?

[Ectomancer]

That does it.

unvote, vote Quagmire

OMGUS'ing the hell out of you.

Quagmire is the lynch today.

[Ectomancer]

If it weren't for Post 149, I'd be certain Quag has some kind of post restriction. I'd be very surprised if he is scum, so I can't really support a lynch on him at this time. It's better to ignore annoying/unhelpful players than vote them off. Do too much of that and you'll soon find yourself at lylo with little to go on.

No, after 9 pages of this, Quagmire is the play today. I can't believe how many people are falling for this WIFOM argument that his play is too stupid to be scum.

[Ectomancer]

Hm...Well, I want some more people to chime in. I personally think theres a LOT of information and I have some juicy things.

juicy =/= intelligent

see: my thoughts on anix

Those have been neither juicy nor intelligent.

[Ectomancer]

Heheh. Are you FOS'ing me for not playing the game with TSQ?
"I've got some juicy info."
"No, really. You've got juicy info?"
"Yep. J-U-I-C-Y."
"Do tell"
"It's the juicest."
"Can I hear it?"
"You'll have to say please."

If he's got some juicy info he'll tell it. If he doesn't, sometime in the next page or two when conversation stalls I can come back and ask him if he is ever going to get around to this juicy info or not. Im not seeing how not immediately stroking TSQ for his "juicy" info is a scum or town tell.

[Ectomancer]

And, as you can see, it was a lot of work...

So I can see. I'll try to get around to the response in the next few days. I've got to find the chunk of time to wade through it all.

[Ectomancer]

This took awhile and I am not going to even try to get BB codes correct for this. I tried to make my responses to each of his points easily readable. I used <<<<< text >>>>> under each of his points to try and separate them out for you.

The case for an ectomancer lynch:

Shea? Jackie? This is practically secret code to those who dont know the names behind the players.

vote Thestatusquo

because Kison already agreed to be the daykill.

1) Look at his first post. He wants to pile on to the player who is causing the disruption, because a disruptive moronic player is usually an easy d1 misslynch. Check out twito, or masterchiefs play if you don’t believe me. This post also bothers me because he points out the possibility of a day kill. Now, as a protown player, had I been faced with that situation, assuming I would have piled onto the disruption player, which nine times out of 10 I wouldn’t, I would NEVER reference the daykill, because I would hope it was a joke, and would not want to remind the player of the threat if it was. This post almost looks like he’s TRYING to get kison daykilled. This is re-inforced with his second post of the day. These are exactly the kind of posts I would expect mafia to make in reaction to my stunt.


<<<<<Once again, TSQ is out to convince everyone that he is a uniquely brilliant tactician. We all know that various players do all types of things to break out of the random stage. However in this game, TSQ seems to feel that he is the first person to ever try a stunt on page 1. Guess what, it happens all the time, and screwing with the person pulling the stunt is not a tell of any kind, regardless of how proud you are of it.
The part about the daykill is equally ridiculous. He is bothered about mentioning the possiblity of a daykill? Maybe he shouldn't have said it himself then? Still if you need it spelled out for you, why did I mention the daykill in my vote? Hello McFly, in your statement you claimed that you would kill the next mother fucker who voted for you. Kison voted for you, thereby "volunteering" to be the day kill be you since he was the "next mother fucker". That meant it was safe for anyone else to vote you today, hence my reference to YOUR statement.

"This post almost looks like he's TRYING to get kison daykilled."
This line must be here for dramatic effect. >>>>>

Now you're both a liar and someone who has to resort to personal attacks. Lynch all liars is a fine meta strategy. Let me state it clearly for you, I catch you in a lie, I lynch. You dont want to be lynched for lying, dont do it.

Big

FOS CPE

for supporting the crap logic that lying, for whatever lame reason, is a perfectly fine town action.

2) Look at post 3. Here, he creates quite a fine little switcheroo. Instead of arguing against my contention that LAL is a poor strategy, he simply asserts that it isn’t, and cites a comment I made from a completely different post (The fatchick comment, as a joke reference to quag) as a reason for why we shouldn’t trust me. Interestingly enough, he attacks CPE here for nothing more than saying that I lie as town. Not just a FOS a BIG fos.


<<<>> Alright, first I am not addressing his detailed contention that LAL is a poor strategy. Well let's look at it.

1) Lynch all liars is dumb meta game strategy, you can ask anyone good and they will tell you this

Whoa! How in depth, cutting and incisive. How could I not have remembered to respond in kind? I guess Jeep isn't (or wasn't) a "good" player. I'm afraid I will have to side with a player who seems to be an icon on the site than the self-described disruptive moronic player. >>>>>

TSQ, please dont mistake me for a moron. I understand we do things to get people to react. You dont corner the market on it. My play to get out of the random stage was to vote you for a lie that was clearly a joke to get things moving.

The first result was a for you to call me a fat chick.
The 2nd result was for your latest response to ignore calling me a fat chick and try to say the personal attack I referred to must have been when you said I was wrong?

I'd like an explanation for those 2 results.

3) Look at his 5th post. He attacks me for pointing out that his last post attacked me for two separate posts, and then says that ‘he’d like an explanation’ And then says that he’s been doing the same thing I’ve been doing. Aka he acted moronic to get a reaction. Odd that he would attack me for it, then.

<<<<<< Yes...yes I did use 1 post to attack you for 2 separate posts...so?? I can only imagine you are trying to fluff your case here. And No, I did not say I was doing the same thing you were doing (AKA acting like a moron). The only thing we did that was similiar was to do something to get out of the random stage. Our actual practice of it was you acting like a moron and me voting for the moron, which, as I said is no more of a tell than you acting like the moron.

Let me take the opportunity to address this old situation again since TSQ brought it up.

He never explained his insult. Oh sure, he explained the

story behind the insult

, but never why he made it in the first place. I do have a reason. It was a scummy personal attack which I find to be a tell for scum who want to gain some element in the conversation, whether it be to add seeming weight to an argument, or to try and lower the relevance of another players comments.>>>>>>

You are entirely missing the point CPE.
#1 I am not upset in the least.
#2 Personal attacks are used by someone who feels their case isnt strong enough to stand on its own, so they resort to attacking the character of the person involved. Its a bad argument style that means either they dont have more information to back them up, or they have information they cant reveal. This is Day 1 and it started in Day. I can only think of one group that would have information on other players that they would not want to reveal that they know.

4) Look at his 6th post. He continues to harp on “the attack” as we’ll now call it, and now begins to poison my well, saying that “he can only think of one group that would have extra information…” Not only is his logic horrendous, but it’s a little early in the game for him to be making allusions to people being definitely mafia. The logic breaks down to this: There are two scenarios which I mention, therefore, if it were one of them, he’d be scummy, so I’m going to mention this part, and hope no one notices.

<<<<< Im proud of TSQ for this one. Now he uses his refusal to actually address my point about personal attacks being a bad argument style and more likely to be used by scum, to say that I am "harping" on his interjection of a personal jibe into our discussion. No, he was far too busy trying to convince us that it was nothing to look at. I dont call it "harping", I call it being tenacious and refusing to let your mistake just drop unaddressed.>>>>>

No, Im not mad and no, Im not a fat chick. Im 6'2 225lb of man meat, though I bet I look more like a Ribeye if you carved a slice. Nicely marbled with fat

My point about the whole fat chick thing was that it demonstrated a weakness in argument. Though town might do the same from time to time, it is one of my own personal tells I look for in scum. Because it came out after a pressure vote on you, it was my first negative mark on the TSQ scum-or-not card. I've gotten a little more comfortable with the answer, but I really wish people would not make these references to out of game situations or even refer to players as any name other than the one to the left when they post.

FYI, I still dont like lying, though what you did is a stretch of the term. It was harmless, not intended to hold up to scrutiny, and I doubt anyone took you seriously. Which, btw is a flaw in your theory that scum would jump on to the wagon. If nobody took your dayvig claim seriously, then you really cant make a case out of either town or scum being predicated towards jumping on that wagon. The better case that you could make is someone who finds you annoying is more likely to vote you, be they scum or town. But that doesnt really help us.

I understand what you were trying to do, so I'm willing to cut you a break and look elsewhere for now (though this line of thought is still here for later review). Between the 2 of us, I think more than enough content has been generated to sift though.

unvote

P.S. If I catch you in a non-joking lie, you can bet that I wont care if you "do it all the time as town". I'll be lynching.

5) Look at his next post. This post mostly consits of him backing down from his previous positions when they don’t catch on. But the most interesting part is the last part: the ps. This essentially states that he doesn’t care if someone is scum or town, he will lynch them based on something arbitrary. This is not a pro town position to hold.

<<<<<<Backing down? It's called applying pressure and moving along when you have the information you wanted.
I wouldn't call catching someone in a lie an arbitrary reason. You still are not getting license to lie from me. I know you are trying to put the onus on me by claiming "Im going to lie as town, so deal with it.". My position is, "If I catch you lying, I'm going to lynch you". If you are in a game with me, deal with that fact.>>>>>>

Who is Starfox?

If the names registered to play this game cant be used, Im going to have to ask to replace me. Otherwise Im going to just start voting anyone who does it, and that wouldn't be fair to the rest of the town.
If I sound like a jerk, so be it. If you want people to call you a different name, you should have registered under it.

I really dont give a rats ass if you find it childish or not. I've asked repeatedly for it to stop, and yet this little clique insists on doing it. Im tired of these references to shit outside of this thread, not restricted just to the names, but as an example, the reference to MTG:S. I dont think I need to quote every instance where it has been done. It would number over a dozen by now. Below is where I expressed opposition to this little habit. I think thats enough effort TSQ before I put the onus on the mod to deal with it.
If the mod wants to allow this to continue, have fun. Just get a replacement.

Shea? Jackie? This is practically secret code to those who dont know the names behind the players.

I've gotten a little more comfortable with the answer, but I really wish people would not make these references to out of game situations or even refer to players as any name other than the one to the left when they post.

vote Anix

for being a dumbass.

Anix, you are a dumbass for trying to turn this into something personal between us, when it is an issue of this entire clique that insists on using other names than their forum name. Thank you for entirely missing the point and trying to misconstrue what I've said into an attack solely on your petty ego. I love the term Godzilla-like rampage. Best case of exaggeration I've read in a long time.
I dont throw childish tantrums, I stated the facts plain and simple. I quoted where twice that I brought up the subject, and it looks to me like it continued with your use of Starfox. I dont have a list of all of your screennames you use on AIM, other mafia sites or in your mothers basement. You appear to be associated with that clique, and your buddies have been throwing around other names the entire game, so yes, my reaction to it was entirely within my bounds. You are welcome to continue in any manner that the mod sees appropriate, I however will not be involved with people using outside names and conversations and refusing to drop their usage.

FYI, you could have ended this before it started by just

using the names you registered with

.

Oh yes, my kids have kids....Kid.

6) His posts 9-12 are not game related. I’m sensing a theme. He also manages to jump onto the AniX bandwagon for a non-game reason. With Quag pushing AniX already, this is the next place I would look to find scum. If theres something scum like more on d1 then lynching the bozo, it’s jumping on to a bandwagon that’s already been championed by someone else. This means that if he suceeds in getting aniX lynched, quag will be the one that gets attacked for it, while he’s off in the shadows. This means the possibility of a 1-2 misslynch, which I am sure scum are licking their chops about. Also, notice how he turns to the use of petty attacks on AniX’s ego when his argument breaks down. People tend to base what they think are scum tells off of what THEY do when they are scum. Since this is one of HIS scumtells, this is pretty damning in my opinion.

<<<<<<You preface by saying that posts 9-12 are not game related but are deriving scumtells from them? Posts 9-12 were me dealing with you and your friends being a bunch of assholes. You know that, the rest of the players know that. I get the impression you added this in to add to the volume of this post. "There is so much material he must be scum!">>>>>>

I apologize to the rest of the players. I realize this should have just been sent as a PM directly to the mod to avoid derailing the conversation.
Carry on, I shall lurk in the meantime.

7) Post 13 contains the famous “I’ll go back to lurking now.” This was brought up as scummy by some, and to be honest, I think they were attacking the wrong part of the post. I don’t think lurking is inherently scummy, however, I do find the fact that ecto backed out of his position under pressure, and bowed under the towns dissapproval which makes me want to highlight this post in my PBPA. I think town players shouldn’t look for the rest of the towns approval. EVER. They should just post what they think. This to me looks like scum not trying to make waves.



<<<<<<Again you grab an off topic post to find scumtells. Every member of this game deserved that apology from me. Every member of the game is STILL waiting on your apology for contributing to the derailing of the game over something as simple as using forum names. I'm sure they will never get it. Town take note now at the volume of material in this "case" that is essentially fluff to make it look bigger and more impressive. Pay attention to his phrasing that I "backed out of my position under pressure" as if it were a bandwagon or something game related at question, when in fact it was over whether those players were breaking forum rules by using names other than players forum names.>>>>>>

I have had some experience with him. It is not unusual for him to push some one with no reasoning, but this one sit's uneasily with me.

Right now I can't think of any card in PC that would suit a jester though.
I think the bulk of the discussion right now is going no where.

I know it's not technically PC, but there was Stuffy Doll in Time Spiral. He/she/it might work.

(Also, in the process of rereading.)

Problem with Stuffy Doll is the indestructible part. Im not sure Quagmire's play is one of a jester either. Still, I'd like to hear why other than "he wants to" for his vote.

unvote

vote Quagmire

8) This post is the actualization of two different trends. One, Ecto ONCE AGAIN hops onto the bandwagon with the most momentum. This time, it is quagmire, who is also acting like a moron. Cross apply that analysis here. Second, he continues to back up out of game feelings with votes. Scumscumscum.

<<<<<<Really? I hopped onto the bandwagon with the most momentum? I voted Quagmire who had at the time....zero votes. In other words, no bandwagon at all. Also, where are the "out of game feelings"? I see speculation about roles based upon game flavor myself. Another example of building a case with fluff, or, dare I say it, an outright fabricated statement about me jumping on a bandwagon

that didnt exist even in the form of 1 vote.

>>>>>>

I believe discussion last focused on The Prof. Quag and his refusal to play the game.

i believe that i'm playing the game, good sir

now we need to kill you in order to benefit the town

What benefit will the town derive from an Anix lynch? It seems not to matter to you whether he is town or scum, only that the lynch will somehow benefit the town.

8) Ecto just did a complete 360, guys. He was advocating an anix lynch just a few posts ago. I know what he’s going to say in response to this “I wasn’t advocating an AniX lynch.” But that’s the point. A vote IS an advocacy. It’s saying “I want this person lynched.” And since I already said that he was hiding behind someone pushing the wagon, I don’t find this response all too compelling.



<<<<<<Taken out of context here. Go re-read the arguments over the forum names. The Anix vote was an OMGUS vote because I thought he was being a dumbass. If you think that Anix vote was anything other than me being irritated with that clique of people, then go ahead and chalk up a point for TSQ. For the rest of you, TSQ saying it doesnt make it so. People regularly put votes on other players for various reasons that dont always iinclude lynching them on the spot. This particular quote here is me trying in vain to get something out of Quag other than "vote Anix".>>>>>>

You guys are killing me here with this talk of no information. We've got 7 pages here, and not a single one is wasted space. Are you kidding me?
I dont know about half of you from other games, Ive been in more than 1 game with a few of you. Guess what, the better you know the other players, the more informed decisions you can make.
Obviously we have some people who know each other well. Lets look at those relationships. We've had an excellent opportunity for observation of debate style where scum/town did not come into play. That gives a control group of observations to be used against the backdrop of scum/town plays.
AniX, TSQ, and CPE seem to know each other pretty well. This is going to give them, at the very least, an unconscious predilection towards trusting each other, and joinging in on the same side of an argument

even if not the same alignment in game

.

Quag and AniX seem to genuinely have known each other but had some kind of rift arise recently. Quag didnt join in to defend Anix as I believe he would have were they friends just messing around about being mad at each other. That leads me to believe Quag's push for AniX is just an OMGUS being pushed way too far and my vote sits well on Quag.
There's tons more in these 7 pages if you bother to look. Though my vote is sitting on Quag to get him to stop the OMGUS and to start playing, I know you'll find other good information to digest.

9) This is completely non game related, and idle speculation. Actually, CPE will tell you I have the propensity to want to lynch him more often then not. Hopefully, of people are playing to win, they won’t let personal relationships interfere with their gameplay.

<<<<<<Baseless opinion comment by TSQ>>>>>>

That does it.

unvote, vote Quagmire

OMGUS'ing the hell out of you.

Quagmire is the lynch today.

Do I need to analyze this? He jumps on the biggest wagon, admits it’s OMGUS, and then advocates the lynch of a player that he doesn’t think is scum. This is one of the worst scummy posts I’ve ever seen.


<<<<<< Really? TSQ himself just illustrated that I was the one getting irritated with Quag. I was the one who put the first vote on him for his play. I was the one who put pressure on him to say something more than "vote Anix". I was the one who gave him some breathing room and then yes, voted him again when he refused to change his playstyle. And ladies and Gents, once again, I somehow jumped on the biggest wagon

despite there being zero votes on Quag at the time.

Mine was the first and Dean added his not long after.>>>>>>

If it weren't for Post 149, I'd be certain Quag has some kind of post restriction. I'd be very surprised if he is scum, so I can't really support a lynch on him at this time. It's better to ignore annoying/unhelpful players than vote them off. Do too much of that and you'll soon find yourself at lylo with little to go on.

No, after 9 pages of this, Quagmire is the play today. I can't believe how many people are falling for this WIFOM argument that his play is too stupid to be scum.

NO…That’s not the argument. The argument is that this does not at all show his alignment. He really doesn’t gain that much as scum from pushing aniX day 1, and he really doesn’t get that much from pushing anix day 1 as town, therefore we determine it’s a non tell. Only scum would want to lynch for a non tell.

<<<<<<I don't think you have a grasp at all. I tell you who would vote for someone playing like Quag is playing. Town who needs every town body actively working to locate scum. Quag is of no help. Only scum would support not putting any pressure on a player who is not of help to the town.>>>>>>

Heheh. Are you FOS'ing me for not playing the game with TSQ?
"I've got some juicy info."
"No, really. You've got juicy info?"
"Yep. J-U-I-C-Y."
"Do tell"
"It's the juicest."
"Can I hear it?"
"You'll have to say please."

If he's got some juicy info he'll tell it. If he doesn't, sometime in the next page or two when conversation stalls I can come back and ask him if he is ever going to get around to this juicy info or not. Im not seeing how not immediately stroking TSQ for his "juicy" info is a scum or town tell.

When is he going to start contributing to the thread? My guess never. Can we lynch him now?

<<<<<<Now I'm to blame (again) for not playing his game of "I've got a secret" the way he wants. If you've got information, say it. You're acting like a pre-pubescent girl teasing her friends with the latest gossip. If you're town and have information we should hear, spit it out. Speaking of which, where is this "juicy info"? No lame excuses like saying "this case on you was the juice". I've clearly shown this case was much more of a raisin than a grape.>>>>>>

[Ectomancer]

@ Ecto: Please be timely, We are under deadline, after all. And I will be gone friday-monday, so you may have to decide without my response to his response.

I can't believe the audacity of this post. Remember this?

You have some good points in there, and I'm considering them. I'd like to see how Ecto responds before I consider changing my vote. I'm also curious as to why you've waited this long to present your case. The posts you quoted have all been around for over a week.

Quoted For Obligatory "Me Too."

Because I was busy with real life, and because I wanted to give people as long of a time to present their favorite options before I posted mine.

And, as you can see, it was a lot of work...

It was fortunate that I had the time to respond to your nearly 3000 word "case". I find your timing and length for the accusation post and subsequent prodding of me to be in disregard for my time and life and, for a suspicious man, which I am, it also has the trappings of design. It would put another player in an awkward position after all, would it not, if they did not have time to respond or only had time to make a short, ineffectual, response to an attack of that length and apparent detail just before a deadline. Given that situation, other players begin to feel pressured by the need to lynch someone and could easily be swayed merely by the volume of a case, and not by its substance.
I don't mind someone building a case against me, we all are building them. Your motives and methods in your case however have become suspect to me.

[Ectomancer]

Being a reasonable request does not exclude it from being advantageous when properly applied. Whether it was by design or not is the matter in question, not the merits of the request itself.

[Ectomancer]

Don't be offended by the suspicion, please. I am accusing you of being a crafty player. My sincere apologies if you are not

[Ectomancer]

TSQ is voting for me, not Quag.

That still leaves a 3 way tie. Even so, let's pretend you were right and there was a 4-way tie like you thought. Do you feel so strongly about Dean that you would pass over the other 3 options available and switch to Dean who only has 1 vote, thus keeping a 4-way tie? That seems to run entirely contrary to what I thought was your point about an approaching deadline. It seems that you would have a stronger, or at least a more detailed case against Dean than what you presented if you are planning to change your vote to him.

[Ectomancer]

You have some good points in there, and I'm considering them. I'd like to see how Ecto responds before I consider changing my vote. I'm also curious as to why you've waited this long to present your case. The posts you quoted have all been around for over a week.

Quoted For Obligatory "Me Too."

Unvote

I'm thinking Yama or Ecto.

Let's see. You have 8 posts, which consist of "gut feelings", an explanation of where you get your gut feelings, a single post where you actually gave 2 one liners of legitimate material, and a "me too".
Concerning the "me too", you didn't even address the reply at all. Just a "Im thinking Yama or Ecto"? Are you not even going to attempt to address the holes in TSQ's "case" that I pointed out? Do you have actual logical reasons for your votes or will we just need to accept your "gut feelings" on things this game?
As irritated as I am at Quag, players making "cases" full of holes, and then Cephir pushing the popular wagons

without addressing the actual content or building a case of his own

is going to have me moving my vote in very short order.

[Ectomancer]

You have stated you can't give a logical reason...can you give any reason at all, even if it wouldn't be deemed logical/rational? Could you at least point to the post where, on your reread, "it became obvious" to you?

I think I'd rather be lynched than point it out to be honest. And no, Kison, I don't fault anyone for not voting along with me. I will support a TSQ, Dean or a CPE lynch before deadline if that's where things are headed.

Not sure what I think about this Yama....Im trying to think of why you wouldn't want to point out a particular post. I cant come up with a good enough reason that would equate to scum getting more information out of a post than town would, simply because you were to point it out. At the worst, it should be a wash as far as insight goes, so why not let town in on it?

[Ectomancer]

Alright, Im not going to spend an hour replying to that line by line. The basic gist was that I missed the point alot, I rode momentum on Quag despite being the first and solitary vote, and that I used a petty insult.

This is quite a volume of material you are pulling from. So tell me, if I missed the point so many times, why did you not state it at the time? If you are dissatisfied with an answer someone gives you, do you not persist until you are communicating on the same level? If I missed your point, then the fault is not mine. Still, I see no reason for you to be upset for all the points I made that you ignored and actual events that you dont acknowledge as relevant. As for the petty insult, it was an analogy that I considered quite apt, but as it can certainly be an insult, I score you your one and only point in your newfound revelations.

[Ectomancer]

So tell me, if I missed the point so many times, why did you not state it at the time? If you are dissatisfied with an answer someone gives you, do you not persist until you are communicating on the same level? If I missed your point, then the fault is not mine. Still, I see no reason for you to be upset for all the points I made that you ignored and actual events that you dont acknowledge as relevant.

This is a complete nondefense. You basically just returned TSQ's attack with some more attack to draw suspicion off yourself.

Yamahako's post 293 (certain parts of it anyway, although I don't particularly agree with most of it) really makes me not want to lynch him today.

Perhaps you have missed this entire thread. If nothing else, it has been attacks back and forth between us. Why suddenly have you decided that this one is designed to draw off suspicion?

Speaking of nondefenses, do you plan to respond to my questions to you? Now see

that

attack you could portray as designed to throw off suspicion. Why did you not choose that one to call me out on? By ignoring it, you look like you are hoping it will just go away and no one will notice.

[Ectomancer]

This game is REALLY starting to piss me off. COME ON PEOPLE. There are literally a million things to take positions on. Could you all stop standing on the fucking sidelines, and actually state an opinion?

Cavane

: You said you were waiting for ectos reply. You have now gotten it, and my reply as well. Post how you feel about that, as well as any other relevent game information.

Yama:

Tell me which side you are leaning to with regards to ecto after his reply and my reply and then his "I'm not talking about this anymore." reply? Please share.

Ceph:

This goes for you too. I want more than just fence sitting. I want you to actually take a position.

Anix

Please comment on everything that doesn't directly pertain to you. All you have been doing all game is defending yourself against a non-existant case from quag--Sure, his case is bad, but that doesn't mean you need to respond to it like 324234 times. The good players in the game know he's just being dumb.

Quag: SERIOUSLY WE ARE AT FUCKING DEADLINE, CUT THE CRAP! PLEASE ACTUALLY SERIOUSLY CONSIDER ANOTHER LYNCH, BECAUSE ANIX IS NOT HAPPENING. FOR FUCKS SAKES.

CPE:

WHERE THE FUCK ARE YOU! Please post relevant opinions on everything currently being discussed, and stop being useless. You are a player in this game, so get crackling.

Anyone I may of forgotten, I am probably a bit annoyed at you too, and just forgot you were playing this game. This call out applies to you as much as to anyone else.

The only one, surprisingly enough, who I think this doesn't apply to is ecto. Who has been posting, at least.

Also surprisingly, I agree with everything you said.

[Ectomancer]

Speaking of nondefenses, do you plan to respond to my questions to you?

What questions?

And here's a definite opinion for you, TSQ.

Vote Ecto

.

Here they are again. BTW, this response perfectly illustrates your willingness to push what you percieve as the popular wagon without bothering to comment on the content at all, or present anything yourself.

You have some good points in there, and I'm considering them. I'd like to see how Ecto responds before I consider changing my vote. I'm also curious as to why you've waited this long to present your case. The posts you quoted have all been around for over a week.

Quoted For Obligatory "Me Too."

Unvote

I'm thinking Yama or Ecto.

Let's see. You have 8 posts, which consist of "gut feelings", an explanation of where you get your gut feelings, a single post where you actually gave 2 one liners of legitimate material, and a "me too".
Concerning the "me too", you didn't even address the reply at all. Just a "Im thinking Yama or Ecto"? Are you not even going to attempt to address the holes in TSQ's "case" that I pointed out? Do you have actual logical reasons for your votes or will we just need to accept your "gut feelings" on things this game?
As irritated as I am at Quag, players making "cases" full of holes, and then Cephir pushing the popular wagons

without addressing the actual content or building a case of his own

is going to have me moving my vote in very short order.

[Ectomancer]

I am playing... just we got some time before the deadline, wake me up then

You really are useless every game arent you?

[Ectomancer]

Speaking of nondefenses, do you plan to respond to my questions to you?

What questions?

And here's a definite opinion for you, TSQ.

Vote Ecto

.

Here they are again. BTW, this response perfectly illustrates your willingness to push what you percieve as the popular wagon without bothering to comment on the content at all, or present anything yourself.

You have some good points in there, and I'm considering them. I'd like to see how Ecto responds before I consider changing my vote. I'm also curious as to why you've waited this long to present your case. The posts you quoted have all been around for over a week.

Quoted For Obligatory "Me Too."

Unvote

I'm thinking Yama or Ecto.

Let's see. You have 8 posts, which consist of "gut feelings", an explanation of where you get your gut feelings, a single post where you actually gave 2 one liners of legitimate material, and a "me too".
Concerning the "me too", you didn't even address the reply at all. Just a "Im thinking Yama or Ecto"? Are you not even going to attempt to address the holes in TSQ's "case" that I pointed out? Do you have actual logical reasons for your votes or will we just need to accept your "gut feelings" on things this game?
As irritated as I am at Quag, players making "cases" full of holes, and then Cephir pushing the popular wagons

without addressing the actual content or building a case of his own

is going to have me moving my vote in very short order.

I agree with this.

Also surprisingly, I'm beginning to think you're town. I'll go back and look at your arguments again and see if I can address what exactly it is you are trying to make a point about. I read your response concerning the holes in your case regarding the "wagon" on Quag. If I were to yield a point that "momentum" can be considered a type of wagon, then on my first vote for Quag, I can maybe see your point. I would counter that despite the FOS's, I put my money where my mouth is and voted. Personally I feel that making a committment is more of a town tell than weak accusations and no follow up.
On the 2nd vote, I'll have to disagree with you. Yama had just voted after a lull, and he was jumped for it. In the middle of all that, I took exception to Quag's responses yet again and went after him again. However, rather than going with the "momentum" on Yama, I clearly bucked the momentum to pressure Quag yet again to help the town at some point in this game.
So, I still don't buy this whole thing about me jumping on a bandwagon on Quag. If you really look back over the posts, I'm the architect, not a passenger.

The rest of our "discussion" looks to me like us arguing over what we are arguing about. The primary one being that I don't think the basic premise in your initial "scum trap" holds water. The major flaw being that your 'scum trap" assumes that you would be the only person doing anything to get us out of the random stage. The "Kison already agreed to be the daykill" comment? That was me mocking your dayvig "claim". Obviously, tongue-in-cheek comments don't translate well on the internet. Apparently I neglected to put a :rolleyes: in there. I use quick reply so emotes are rare in my replies.

If you want something else specific addressed, ask again. The holes in your "case" over Quag had me convinced you were scum with a dog and pony show going on, and I had little interest in helping you make a mountain out of a smoke and mirrors molehill. I did finally get what you were trying to explain about the momentum, so that makes me feel better about your attack on me, but Im still not certain that we are even arguing on the same page or topic in other areas.

[Ectomancer]

AFAICT, your reasoning is basically "AniX does not help the town, therefore it is a good thing to lynch him. He also has as much chance to be scum as anyone else, so lynching him today is ok."

If I'm missing something, please direct me to it, but otherwise, it sure doesn't fly with me.

Here you go:

I think we should vote Quag for poor word usage. Its about as valid and relevant to the game as any logic he has brought to the game at all.

I don't know if lynching Quag is the best answer, because we all know that being a asswipe who is ruining the game experience for others doesn't really translate to being mafia. I guess the best we could hope for is Quagmire to get fed up with our lack of support for his stupidity and ask to be replaced, thereby giving his potential townie role an actual player rather than a literal record that is damaged. But barring that, I would suggest we all just ignore him and focus on something else. It can be related to the Quag fallout, since thats basically all we got going for us, but voting Quag is going to get us shit nowhere at this point.

if you were to read my logic, in no way am i trying to ruin the game experience of others. there's no useful actual information that's going to be thrown out there on day one; the best thing that anyone is going to come up with is speculation and theories.

by the way, i'm pretty sure that you're evil right now anyway, regardless of whether or not you think my theory is valid. you're completely downplaying all of my logic and acting as if you're above it, when everybody else who hasn't agreed with me has at least challenged me and put pressure on me (see: kison).

on that note, though -- what should we focus on, anix? have you had anything useful to participate so far? the answer, of course, is a resounding

no

; the only contributions you've made is an occasional chime-in of condescending mantra over how my logic is stupid and worthless, combined with a total lack of display of emotion and defense of me otherwise. this is duly noted, because if you pursued any alternatives, you would be totally viewed as scummy -- an emotional, OMGUS response would be a sign of weakness and nerves.

i disagree, then, with the people who say that i've contributed less than anix. i have contributed way more to the discussion and day then lurker anix has -- considering all he's been doing is being totally inoffensive to everyone and defending everyone who he gets a chance to.

happy, guys? kison? i'm scumhunting and speculating.

Quag, you could substitute CPE for Anix in there and have it be equally true. However, I'm saying that on page 14 after observing their play. You on the other hand, took up this position on day 1 and haven't altered one iota despite those 14 pages. The thing is, you haven't even really added to it since then! You are posting longer and saying the same thing. I want to lynch Anix and that's my reason. Lame.

[Ectomancer]

Concerning the "me too", you didn't even address the reply at all. Just a "Im thinking Yama or Ecto"?

Yep.

Are you not even going to attempt to address the holes in TSQ's "case" that I pointed out?

I saw your answers. I didn't find them sufficient.

Do you have actual logical reasons for your votes or will we just need to accept your "gut feelings" on things this game?

I do have logical reasons, yes. I just choose not to post my entire thought process in the thread. If I don't give an opinion, it's probably because I flat-out agree with already-stated opinions. And by the way, I'm pretty sure there are a few people playing even less than I am. I don't see any compelling reason to move my vote right now.

Weak.

mod: Can we get a prod on Aelyn and BHNY?

Aelyn has been gone for 2 weeks, BHNY for 6 weeks...

[Ectomancer]

EBWOP: Is it also possible to extend the deadline to give either the MIA players or their replacements a chance to catch up with the game?

[Ectomancer]

BHNY has already been replaced by lowell.

My bad, I checked the status page and it didn't have the replacements listed. I used the active list and the filter to check everyone's posting habits. That would explain BHNY's 6 week absence....

[Ectomancer]

We really need some more activity this weekend :-/

I think Mafia may be trying to ride a deadline vote to avoid putting their two cents in.

I tend to agree. I'm still looking for a prod/replacement on Aelyn and whether we can get an extension on the deadline to either get Aelyn to chime in or give the replacement time to catch up. In the meantime I'd like to hear more from those have posted but didn't say anything

[Ectomancer]

I'm happier with a Dean lynch than a Ceph lynch. As far as I know, the Ceph case is based on him being unhelpful. I almost never buy cases like that unless there's a fair amount of scumminess to go with it. Dean's been pretty convienantly wishy washy with his voting, and hasn't bothered to explain himself. So I'm happy with my vote. We don't need to hit half majority, so unless a bunch of people switch to no-lynch in the next few hours, someone WILL be lynched.

To some degree, I agree, except for the opportunistic popular bandwagon hopping. That doesnt fall under "being unhelpful". However, in that case, cpe just made himself a good vote on that count.

[Ectomancer]

I should have been more specific last post, the part I agree with to some degree is about the Ceph case. I should have snipped that out to quote.

However, I just went back and looked at the Dean "case" and didn't find one. The only person who provided a reason was Lowell, an he basically said to look at Dean's post in isolation in order to find a lurking non-helper. Which is much of what the Cephir case is about. My problem isnt with that, it is with the other two on that wagon who voted with a "it should be obvious" reason stated. I really really dislike that because later on you can say it was about whatever you want to say it was about later on to fit in with whatever case you are trying to build.

FOS Yamahako, Cavane

Out of the 3, Cephir, Dean, and CPE, whose main issue is being unhelpful, I re-read Dean and did not see what was "obvious" to the people on the wagon. CPE is still just being CPE, it would be stupid to vote him because it isnt going to make him change anyhow. Cephir however is being willfully unhelpful, even when prodded to elaborate on his posts.

I hate deadlines, still haven't heard from the mod whether we might get an extension for a replacement for Aelyn. Honestly, I wouldn't be good with a lynch for any of the cases thus far, but with a deadline imposed that looks to result for certain in a lynch, Im going to go ahead and vote the most suspicious.

vote Cephir

[Ectomancer]

Wow, that sends me back. The guy who taught me MTG when I was, like, 9 was a big Tefari fan. Anyway...

Not sure what Kison was doing to draw the kill like that. I was thinking of looking at him and Aelyn closely today for their lurking through the deadline, but there went one of those theories.

Is TSQ going to be replaced? Or a more apt question: Is he really gone?

In the meantime: Quag, if AniX had been lynched yesterday, who would be the play today, and why?

Im hoping TSQ will decide to stay. That was uncalled for and all I will say on the matter.

Quag, do you still feel Anix is your play and if so, could you at least help us look at other people?

[Ectomancer]

Just to be clear you arent saying something else, you are saying you were targeted by a roleblocker last night?

[Ectomancer]

Erm, I wasnt asking if you had any powers to be blocked, but whether you were saying you got a message that you were targeted...

[Ectomancer]

Please be careful here. Im not sure what Anix was thinking, and Im afraid of what TSQ might be thinking. I really dont think we need to start hinting (or blatantly stating) about who has powers, which will inevitably lead to the claims, at least not just yet.

[Ectomancer]

I'm also not seeing the claimed roleblocks being target based from the messages they recieved. If the mod was going to make an odd role like that, not having them get the same message would be bastardly.

[Ectomancer]

I did not target you, nor did I get a message that someone tried to roleblock me last night, not that there was any action to block mind you.

[Ectomancer]

I guess it might be one way as Godfather to induce an investigation on you while a cop might be around to label you as innocent. I dont see how his play would fit in as an SK though...

[Ectomancer]

NK immune with multiple flavors - and a convenient lie on your part would make sense of last night. I've never really seen a role (though I could conceive of one) that would roleblock everyone that targets a particular person. Though, that would mean 25% of people targeted you last night... and we had a kill, so that's 33% of the town with a night action - oh and you said you were roleblocked as well, which insinuated you had a night action so that would be 42% of the game. Oh and our name investigator died last night (50% of the game), and we had one vanilla townie who died yesterday. That would mean 58% of the game in some way was either you, targeting you, or dead. And that at LEAST 50% of the game has a night ability.

I don't understand this. Other than AniX, who has targeted me? How do you reason that at least 50% of the game has a night ability (which isn't absurd in the first place)?

Or else, you're NK immune with some trippy enchantery flavor. The most common NK immune roles are a GF or an SK. Add to that the fact that you're not a cop (yeah I'm dumb sometimes), and your driving like obsession yesterday (almost game halting) to lynch AniX.

I was nightkilled (or, attempted to be nightkilled)? How do you know?

Im with Quag. It looks like you are either saying you tried to kill Quag, or you know for certain that someone else did. Please dont use the %'s again. It's well known that 95% of statistics are made up on the spot.

[Ectomancer]

Im with Quag. It looks like you are either saying you tried to kill Quag, or you know for certain that someone else did. Please dont use the %'s again. It's well known that 95% of statistics are made up on the spot.

I didn't really mean the percentages as statistics - it wasn't a chance of an occurance it was the percentage out of 12. And you're right, I was insinuating that Quag was attacked - which I wanted to see if someone would agree with - and it looks like Dean did (scum scum scum).

*I* did target quag last night however (though I don't have a killing role), and quag said he was roleblocked, and Anix said he targeted Quag as well. What's the likely hood that a super doc/roleblocker ALSO targeted quag?

Alright, I can buy using crap logic to set a trap.

vote Dean

for agreeing with Yama's crap.

[Ectomancer]

MOD Announcement: There is absolutely NO impropriety in this game. CPE asked me on AIM if I was planning on replacing TSQ. I told him I was gonna give him some time to blow off steam. TSQ is still seeking replacement so I will begin looking now. Aelyn has been prodded.

On a separate note, some people know each other outside of the game, but that doesn't mean they converse about the game. I have asked that players address each other by their forum names. This is sometimes difficult for people who play mafia over AIM. It is not an attempt to alienate the rest of the people in the game. Please be understanding of these circumstances.

:goodpost:

Let's get back to the game please, particularly about Yama and Dean's actions.

[Ectomancer]

Im still looking at Dean and Yama. Either Yama really set a trap and got Dean, or Yama didnt set a trap, but realized his reasoning was crap, so hopped out and said to Dean, "haha! I got you!"

[Ectomancer]

Quag - could be something to your point, could be OMGUS.

Where's Yama? I'm waiting on more word on this trap thing.

[Ectomancer]

nocmen: a sudden labyrinth appeared before me, preventing me from going anywhere or doing anything.

The Quag wagon failed to get anything going other than actually getting him to vote someone other than AniX. (Of which I am personally very proud.) Therefore, I will Unvote Quagmire and reconsider my position, since the replacement is among us. I'm thinking about renewing my case on Dean. Between the things I pointed out Yesterday and Yama's trap, I'm not feeling good about him.

Cavane, you haven't pointed out any new or useful scumhunts, just ones that other people have said. Combine that with your total reluctance to vote for anybody that

isn't

a wagon, I really, really, really think that you're scum.

I could vote for dean, too...but Cavane is solid right now.

Wait, why is Cavane proud of Quag voting someone else? I would swear that was

my

push on Quag, and I had to defend myself for doing it...

[Ectomancer]

Dean is bandwagoning for sure. Probably because of the pressure on him, but that's a seriously poor reason unless he was near lynch. Of course, as Quag pointed out, it could be a poorly disguised bus.
Quag isn't playing stupid here, but I do wonder how he missed the vote while quoting it. It certainly could lend credence to Cavane's claim that it was an OMGUS vote, but I think Quag has material and not just a retaliation.

[Ectomancer]

but I think Quag has material and not just a retaliation.

Oh? Why would you think that? Seeing as how he's denied being a cop - and admitted to being roleblocked...

Material - points of substance that do not fall under OMGUS.

[Ectomancer]

"Just to get things going" was a pretty lame response. A bandwagon was forming and you got on it. You should have at least some sort of opinion on Quag and Nocmen jumping on before you.
I also disagree that you are under little real pressure. You looked to be a leading scum candidate at that moment, and a Cavane wagon would work in your favor.

Im not worried about Yama trying to explain that trap thing again. After listening to you both, it still was crap logic, and you both look bad for supporting it, and Yama has a 50/50 chance of saying it and then scrambling to recover. It's gotten to the "Yes I did", "No you didnt" stage at this point.

[Ectomancer]

Dean, I haven't put out a case against you. (notice no fos or vote) I'm making observations based upon actions. You acknowledge here you were bandwaggoning, so why belabor the point?
Now, are you going to talk about Cavane, Quag, and Nocmen or not? This was the vehicle you chose to get things going. I think you should put more effort into it than an unexplained vote and unvote.

[Ectomancer]

Dude, the vote was not explained when you made it. You then unvoted. Then you said it was all to get things going. Not much effort for getting things going, especially since it accomplishes nothing when you just say "I did it to get things going." Once again, how about talking about the whole Quag/Cavane/Nocmen that

you

jumped into the middle of with a vote?

[Ectomancer]

(because if there was a response, I missed it).

Posts #470 and #484. Read those and see why I didnt care if he addressed the trap thing further or not. I expect him to say the same things in different words. The questions are whether you believe Yama's story or not, and why Dean supported the crap logic at all.

[Ectomancer]

Clearly you knew you would be called on it Dean. Therefore you should have had a better response prepared than a weak excuse like that. You were using that excuse to be able to bandwagon, and then whip it out and unvote if called on it. Weak move, lame excuse.

[Ectomancer]

It was a half-hearted attempt at getting things moving, and it is my best bet that if nobody questioned you over it, you would have left your vote sitting there.

Now, are you

ever

going to talk about the Quag/Cavane/Nocmen deal that you jumped into the middle of with your vote? If you actually wanted to get things moving, you could have just talked about that in the first place.

[Ectomancer]

rwar

Mouth full of creampuff?

[Ectomancer]

You are not ever going to get more out of cpe. That is how he plays.

I fully support lynching cpe. He is going to extremely not helpful.

@ecto:What quag/cavane/nocmen thing are you talking about?
And you are suspicous of my vote with no reasoning because you are certain that if no one, somehow, noticed I would have left it there? Dont you think that is a little to wifom?

You have GOT to be kidding me. Are you even playing this game?

[Ectomancer]

mod

Can we get a vote count please?

[Ectomancer]

Heya Blight. My question to you is, do you think Dean is being evasive in our latest exchange, or is he just being lazy?

[Ectomancer]

People need to start speaking up. We've got a deadline here with Cavane the leading candidate for lynch in a 'top vote candidate will die situation'. Sitting there without at least commenting on things that are going on right now would be scummy if it weren't for so many of you doing it.

The case and votes against Cavane.
Quag - Definitely has thrown out a better case against Cavane than he did against Anix. I've discovered in the past few weeks that Quag is a better player than this game might lead you to believe, so I am not underevaluating his observations.
Nocmen - Found a problem with the line that Cavane threw out upon his arrival. I'm assuming the vote is built upon Quag's foundation.
CPE - *sigh*

For those needing to catch up on the current leader go back and read posts 478 to 506 and then come back and talk about Cavane, Quag, and Nocmen and also ask yourself why Dean has yet to comment on them and has been acting dense about it. If he voted simply to provoke discussion, but doesn't want to actually discuss what he stuck his vote into, then he is just trying to be an active lurker.

[Ectomancer]

I haven't been lurking, I've simply said about all I can about the cases on me.

Yeah, and that's the problem. That's about all you've done.

[Ectomancer]

I'm not sure what else I can do. Pretty much all the active players have done is present cases on me. I could vote one of them, but I don't believe in OMGUS, and I don't think any of them are scummy. No one's responded to my defense, either.

Oh pity me doesn't help you either.

[Ectomancer]

My vote was already on Dean so I also

vote lynch

[Ectomancer]

I see no point in a quicklynch (I know, the pace of this game makes that term laughable) unless we are taking out the scummy one who needs replacing anyhow, so Im not sure why you switched to Cavane while saying that Dean or cpe would be a better play. You're right however, in that it isn't exactly fair to have someone replace in and lynch them right away based upon the previous players actions.

[Ectomancer]

So lets get some prods and put some pressure on people to post. We may not have a replacement for Dean yet, but we've had a straw poll that says lets keep that role around, so the lack of a replacement as far as everyone else is concerned is moot. I certainly want people commited to an opinion before Cavane gets strung up for a half-hearted defense.

mod

mass prod please?

[Ectomancer]

I'm still here, and I'm stil voting for Cavane.

We can lynch Dean tomorrow.

Why do you plan to lynch Dean? More importantly, is a replacement going to be able to make a difference with anything they say for you? If not, I would say this move is disrespectful to the mod and the replacement. Now if you think the person replacing in can make a difference, then I support you keeping your vote on Cavane. For me, I really don't think they can, hence the reason my vote is staying on Dean.

[Ectomancer]

Birthday Lynch!!

[Ectomancer]

His birthday is long gone. He isn't the lynch today.

[Ectomancer]

unvote; vote cavane

Dean isn't here to defend himself, but Cavane doesn't have that excuse. My apologies in advance to Dean's replacement. You'll have to do some good talking.

[Ectomancer]

screw this, this day has gone long enough.

Vote: Cavane

Not so long that you couldn't wait for the claim...

[Ectomancer]

vote Dean Albert

[Ectomancer]

WAIT!

I'm a doctor dammit.

It should have said, "Dammit Jim, I'm a Doctor not a lynchpin, now get your vote off of me!"

unvote

[Ectomancer]

vote Yamahako

[Ectomancer]

unvote

/ponders

[Ectomancer]

/decides

vote Albert

[Ectomancer]

I blocked Quag last night. Someone still died. He's partially confirmed town.

[Ectomancer]

That makes sense to me.

[Ectomancer]

Either way. I block Nocmen tonight instead of cpe.

vote vpe

[Ectomancer]

Ecto, you blocked Nocmen, right?

No, I was headed there when I found myself in a maze, preventing me from using my night action.

[Ectomancer]

Umm, Im blue. Your color theory doesn't appear to have merit.

[Ectomancer]

vote Nocmen

[Ectomancer]

I gave my block to you to redirect. I was also caught in a maze, so I dont know that you got it.

[Ectomancer]

I'd rather go with the 100% chance and not lynch me, but it sounds like Quags math makes ok sense.
My caveat today is the power of Quag's role. He cant be killed or investigated. Very strong role. He can only be lynched, and that also happens to be the only way to test him. Interesting.

Quag, why did you redirect Anix's investigation to me, when clearly he was looking for confirmation on you? You specifically did not allow him that information when you could have. If he wanted to investigate me, he could have chosen me himself, so I'm confused at your decision, and also wary of it.

[Ectomancer]

Wow, you really think that a Goon, a roleblocker and a rolechooser (whatever that is) is balanced by

two

untargetable townies (Quag just redirects), 2 flavors of cop, Nocmen's strongman role and a Doc/Roleblocker?

Alrighty then...

[Ectomancer]

We can't win with Quag as scum unless we lynch him today. That's the bottom line. I realize that

he

sees nothing wrong with the balance of the setup if I were scum, but that's a rather stacked deck for town. Point of fact is, I don't think scum could even win at all with that setup. 2 untargetable townies plus all the rest? The mods on this site are better at balancing games than that, and PWS is no n00b.

[Ectomancer]

Quag = scum = we lose today by lynching me.

Ecto = scum = we lose nothing by lynching Quag.

Despite needing to use equations for you here, I am town. It's a bad move to lynch me today and leave the 2nd claimed untargetable townie alive. Seriously, the first one was already confirmed town. How would scum possibly win with those 2 in the game unless they were morons?

[Ectomancer]

It's about time.

[Ectomancer]

bump

[Ectomancer]

Seriously.