Mini 1568: Another Awesome Alliteration Adventure (over)

[Egg]

Vote called

"Scum sux!!!!!!!!" looks forced.

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I can't find it, but I know I got that recently.

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True. Town would never do that.

Vote jargonaut

Confirmed scum.

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Your face looks forced

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That's actually me in that pic

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So you see them as unlynchable, but not as concrete town?

I'm bad at this.

TSO, you remind me of Charter this game. This is a compliment.

Unvote, Vote Cho

^you say you are voting TSO because he's "one of those players" using "arrogance" to make himself look town. This looks like you are annoyed because you don't like his playstyle and you feel like a victim of it. But do you honestly believe he is scum? Because you don't seem to and non-genuine reads

usually

come from scum. Sometimes it just comes from emotion though and I'm debating on if that's what we are dealing with.

Oh and whoever said the multiball comment seems off, I agree. It could suggest that Cho is part of a two person scum team and slipped knowledge of a second team. Could. I wouldn't assume this just yet, but it's right in the back of my mind.

Riptide could be scum if Cho is town. I have a gut scum read on Dice, but I don't think he is bussing. I like Burning and Dunham for town.

[Egg]

FOS: CHO
Not voting up to L-1 though

Would be L-2 by my count but I can't still understand not wanting to do it yet

[Egg]

Can understand*

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Elyse, you're gonna have to explain to me why asking questions is scummy.

Burning, why iis L-1 on Cho "fine" as you put it? Why aren't you voting Cho?

Caled, I wouldn't worry about setup spec this early. Let's just find out who the scummiest player is and run them up within the next 5 to 10 pages.

[Egg]

I actually haven't seen Charter in a game in quite a while but I got very familiar with his play and you just happen to be reminding me of him.

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I don't see a problem with asking for a reason for a vote regardless of the stage of the game.

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I know I'm not really too far behind but I just realized it's been a day or two maybe more since I've posted and I have like no time before work so I'll try to make time for this tomorrow.

[Egg]

Ok catching up.

Elyse, I get where you are coming from. Believe me I really do get it. I just don't think it's that big of a deal. I've seen a lot of town players freak out about the first RVS wagon to pop up. I mean I've seen scum do it too, but it's not only scum. I was just trying to see if you really believe it came from scum or not and I think had a genuine suspicion that it did at least when you posted.

I don't care for Dunham's reaction to Riptide's question about why his second post should include scum hunting. Sure, scumhunting is helpful and protown and all that. But there are players who would rather BS the first few pages regardless of alignment. While I'm not so sure that's what Riptide was doing (I think he was just saying Elyse's point was BS), Dunham ignores the idea that not everyone is in SRSMODE on Page 1. When Burning shows support for that idea, Dunham now feels safe laying a vote. I don't like that he waited for Burning's endorsement.

Cho's disappearance is pretty bad. It's pretty common for scum to feel pressure and fade into the background until someone else does something scummy. Her admission of this doesn't make it a town thing to do by the way.

Um. So I have this gut feeling and I don't know where it's coming from no matter how hard I try to figure it out. The Riptide/Burning thing doesn't feel town/town to me. At the same time, if this is right, my Dunham point is probably wrong so I'm confused by this.

Tool, are you townreading MTD and Riptide or are you just saying that Dunham's votes look like scum on town?

I don't like Dunham calling out burning as "testing the Mod". It looks like an attempt to get burning modkilled. And his "beating your wife" comment would suggest that he isn't someone who would be upset at someone calling someone else dumb.

Cho might be beetlejuicing...

[Egg]

Catching up tonight; the justification that you don't like me "flaming" and so you ...won't lynch scum is actively playing against your win condition.

^who is this addressed at and how do you know they have a town win condition?

[Egg]

That's twice you've popped back up as soon as someone says your name.

Preview edit: ok. But looking back at your post, you see why I asked right?

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Cho, I'm talking about Post 144 coming up after TSO called out your lurking and the burst of posting after 177.

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Cho, I'm not even talking about the lurking here. That's another issue entirely. It's the timing of your return.

Riptide, I agree. Cho's TSO read is probably my biggest issue with her.

Preview edit: MTD, the lurking was intentional and strategical to relieve pressure though. And admittedly too.

[Egg]

MTD, the lurking was intentional and strategical to relieve pressure though. And admittedly too.

yes... but as I said, I have no problem with the reason she provides. I mean, yeah, that's something scum might do, too, but so might town, and in this case I don't find the scum explanation to be more probable (as I have already said probably)

I personally don't buy that town would do it. Maybe newbtown, but Cho said she's an alt.

On confirmation bias, I've only seen Elyse's definition where you basically are so sure of your read that everything else seems to support it even if it really doesn't. It would be a town thing, usually. Not always though because scum could be choosing not to back down.

[Egg]

Cho, it's more like because you are an alt, things I'd excuse as newb tells don't apply to you.

[Egg]

Vote Dunham

Someone tell me why I'm wrong.

[Egg]

Can you read 193 again and see if your answer stays the same?

[Egg]

TSO, those were the things that stood out to me on Day 1, yes.

The end of 303 by Riptide is extremely town. Think about it. As scum, they'd be lying about having that conversation last night. Where is the from doing that?

[Egg]

Of course it's WIFOM. It's a post in a mafia game, therefore it is WIFOM. Thank God we got that out of the way.

[Egg]

Well scum wouldn't be talking to each other overnight about who is scum and why. So that post would have to be a lie if they were scum. Why randomly throw that out there? More like what are the chances that they decided to throw that lie out there?

[Egg]

Really? You're telling me this RVS post is genuine scum hunting?

True. Town would never do that.

Vote jargonaut

Confirmed scum.

I mean, I don't mind that you are calling me town and all, but I don't think this is a legitimate read. Or at least not a genuine reason for it.

Preview edit:
But building cases and everything with a hydra partner as scum? I get what you are talking about, but that would be more likely to end up in the scum QT than the hydra one. And it probably wouldn't be about the player who was NK'd and leave you thrown off when that player is NK'd.

[Egg]

Hi. I got prodded.

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I'm short on time but I just wanna say I approve of the Dunham wagon.

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MTD, I wanted to show that my stance didn't change three votes later.

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MTD, I hadn't posted since my vote (at least I don't think I did). I know people have unvoted in the past because they don't like the speed of a wagon or the way votes were placed.

[Egg]

What exactly is the case on Burning again?

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Not convinced.

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Tool, I honestly don't see either your case or SK's. They both seem more like a summary of his play than a case why he is scum.

SK, what's up

[Egg]

That's L-1...

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Where's the scum intent though?

And I like my vote. Why change it?

[Egg]

So he lacks both town intent and scum intent and therefore must be scum?

And I made my case. Why beat the dead horse? No one had any reasons against it. A few people voted the same way. What can I do other than say the same things over and over?

[Egg]

Did I really just lose that post? Fuck.

I'll do it again when I'm done eating.

[Egg]

SK, I don't see any "panic" in Burning's play. Hell, the post about lynching him being the right play looks calm and accepting. Now that doesn't mean he's town, but I definitely don't read him as panicky. And of course I'm not ok with no lynch. If we were an hour from deadline, Burning was at L-1, and no other lynch was happening, I'd hammer in a heartbeat. I just don't buy that he's scum. And I know I could be wrong, which is why I'd deadline hammer, but I don't see the case at all. And it's getting hard to judge his posts because I'm doing it with the bias that there's already a case on him that I don't agree with.

Jarg, that's not what that looked like there. I could see if he was like "I want to lynch so an so but there's no support" and two people voted that way so he voted. But this seemed more like a throwaway comment followed by a vote from someone else so he decided to try it.

[Egg]

Why is Tool's vote "super town"?

And no one has given a reason why the hammer was scummy yet. Like if you think it was intentional, tell me why scum would do that when Cho was probably going to be lynched anyway.

Preview edit: TSO, how do you figure scum never vote without reasons? I can probably go through my last five completed games and show you an example in each one. I agree with Bipolar that it's pretty null.

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I'm not a fan of SleepyKrew analysis of B_E, it feels forced and like he's got a bit of confirmation bias going on.

That's what happens when you ISO someone specifically looking for reasons why they are scum.

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Eh, I might be wrong. Burning just beetlejuiced and then referred to the sample PM. Maybe he is scum. Whatever, we'll probably find out soon.

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Unexpected V/LA because my phone broke and that's where 90% of my posting came from. So don't count on me to hammer.

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Another Awesome Alliteration Adventure

Reviewed by quadz08, Empking, and Titus.

Playerlist

toolenduso
The Betting Pool

(hydra of Lucky2u and penguin_alien)

Rubicon

(replaced caledfwitch*)

BipolarChemist*

(replaced mnemonicdevice**)

Jargonaut
SleepyKrew (

replaces Dunhamganger**)

MTD
Elyse
T S O
Riptide

(hydra of 3dicerolling and HighShroomish)

Cho
Burning_Earth*
Egg*

Spoiler: Alive

toolenduso
The Betting Pool
BipolarChemist
SleepyKrew
T S O
Riptide
Egg

Spoiler: Dead

Cho,

Average Anybody

, Vanilla Townie,

Angels

, lynched day 1
Elyse,

Auxiliary Aid

, Jack of All Trades,

Angels

, died night 1
Burning_Earth,

Average Anybody

, Vanilla Townie,

Angels

, lynched day 2
Jargonaut,

Awful Apprentice

, Goon,

Aliens

, died night 2.
Rubicon,

Acclaimed Actress

, Beloved Princess,

Angels

, died night 2
MTD,

Ammunition Appraiser

, Gunsmith,

Angels

, died night 3

Spoiler: Important Events

Day 1: Start - Rubicon replaces caledfwitch - End
Day 2: Start - BipolarChemist replaces mnemonicdevice - SleepyKrew replaces Dunhamganger - End
Day 3: Start - End
Day 4: Start

A BCDEFGHIJKLM N OPQRSTUVWXYZ

ISO'd MTD. Didn't find anything. Jarg ISO should come next when I have time.

[Egg]

Ignore that quote. Not sure why it's there. Apologies in advance if this post has one too

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No time to read but skimmed a little and someone said massclaim to out who killed scum. Seriously why? Confirm town now so scum know who to kill tonight? Isnt it more valuable to confirm town later?

[Egg]

Good point.

So...

I don't wanna full claim but I shot Jarg.

[Egg]

I will say that everything I've done with my role will be very obvious when I flip. Feel free to ISO me at that point

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Actually, I was fucking with scum but there's no point because they're killing me anyway. I'm x-shot vig

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Approved arbelist is the name. May have spelled it wrong. I left the role pm page

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TSO, i'm not confident I'd have survived a LYLO 1v1. Claiming gives town the best chance to win.

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Tool i was trying to make scum think I had some other powers because as a vig, it's possible I do more harm than good. So eating a NK isn't the worst thing in the world. but they are killing me anyway so I retracted that. i am smart enough not to shoot in the dark though and N1 is evidence of that. it was an intentional decision not to shoot even though my last two games as a power role (tracker, cop) I have hit scum N1. i wasnt sure enough to take the shot N1 so I waited til N2. honestly, I'm pretty proud of my power role play on my current 8 game winning streak.

[Egg]

Yes

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I'm 100% sure

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Riptide yeah as soon as I get caught up

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Wait, are we massclaiming?

I vote no

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@Egg
just a quick explanation of why you shot Jargonaut for prosperity's sake please

What are you trying to get out of this?

[Egg]

Vote The Betting Pool

I wanted to say Tool, but his play today has looked very town and Bipolar has me convinced.

[Egg]

TSO, if I name a target, it tells scum if they should block me or not if they have a RB.

[Egg]

Ow.

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Im back

[Egg]

Hi

[Egg]

Someone should just hammer. Let the replacement read at night.

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Riptide don't worry I know what I'm doing

[Egg]

Bad joke TSO

Also

Which one of those would you say you had the most aggressive start?

- Dice

You're slippin' bro

[Egg]

I didn't really get the joke, as you can tell.

Bad joke TSO

Also

Which one of those would you say you had the most aggressive start?

- Dice

You're slippin' bro

What do you mean?

TSO said you didnt say what I quoted.

[Egg]

Unvote

Best. Replacement. Ever.

I'll read past the vote count later.

[Egg]

Yeah I just realized who ff replaced. I want his take thugh just because if he's town holy shit. He just replaced into a large a little while back and did an amazing job.

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I forgot with the site going down but I know Bipolar convinced me Page 27ish

[Egg]

I didn't submit a kill. With 6 players and a scum kill to account for, I'd have to be sure and I wasn't. A wrong kill would have ended the game.

My to do list includes looking back at Jarg and comparing my findings to ffer's, looking at the vote counts, and seeing if Bipolar crumbed any results. Sorry I didn't do much yesterday. My mind was made up on lynching who was already being lynched and I didn't want scum to know where my head was at. But in LYLO, we need everything out there. That means massclaim has to happen today.

[Egg]

Yeah there's nothing in Bipolar's ISO that looks like crumbs. Next move is massclaim. I'll start. 1-shot vig. I forget my flavored name but I claimed it earlier so I'm not gonna go back to my Role PM for that.

[Egg]

I was just gonna say whoever gets here first but if you want popcorn ffer can claim

[Egg]

Yeah, Riptide I'm kinda thinking similarly in that someone who looks town absolutely has to be scum. Ffer's slot was scummy looking to me so I have to look past him a bit. Tool has slowly looked townier throughout the day. And I've been town reading you and TSO all game. Yet within those four players, there are two scum. So I'm a bit lost.

[Egg]

Yikes. The only person I can't find a reason for them to be town based on Jarg's ISO is Tool. Jarg clearly actively engaged in discussion with both of his buddies. He voted TSO and Riptide. He questioned Dunham (now ffer) about his reads. And he definitely interacted with Tool. I lean Tool/ffer based on this info alone, but I could see Riptide only because he defended him first, voted him, and unvoted which isn't consistant at all so the vote could have been a bus thinking Riptide would be lynched. And he dropped the TSO thing pretty quick too so....

Yeah I got very little info from this. Not sure where to go next. I guess I'll look over ffer and SK's ISO reviews of Jarg.

Preview edit:
Crap. Jarg is female? I did it too. Sorry Jarg.

TSO is that an active or passive ability?

[Egg]

SK's case that Jarg/Tool were scum together actually has me convinced Tool is town. There was no reason for Tool to bus like that.

Preview edit:
Yeah. Active means you submit the action. Passive means it just happens. PGO is usually passive as far as I know, but I have a reason why you are town that will wait until after massclaim. Did you popcorn?

[Egg]

You didn't. Who claims next?

[Egg]

Ffery's ISO on Jarg mentions possible coaching of Riptide. I noticed that too but decided it was too blatant and probably a town tell.

[Egg]

,,,Vote count 1.05 Dunham adds a third vote to Riptide rather than either a fifth on Cho or avoiding the wagons. Because of this, I don't believe it's ffer/riptide.

But by 1.09, Dunham does switch to Cho and interestingly enough all living players were on that wagon. I kinda wanna look at everyone's Cho votes now that we know 2/3 of the scum were on it.

2.01 quick Riptide wagon. Jarg is th third vote.

2.04 my Dunham counter wagon springs up and none of you guys rushed to it. Points against Dunham and for Riptidetown.

2.07 Note Tool and SK on the new Burning Earth wagon. Tool is the first vote though so SK looks worse than him (ffer's slot again). However, while it looks bad, it's not damning because town self preservation happens.

2.08 Jarg jumps on. Chances are one of Tool/ffer is town because 3 scum on a 5 vote wagon just is so rare. I wanna look at Riptide and TSO's Day 2.

4.01. I don't think SK would bus Tool immediately after losing Jarg to a vig shot. Tool/ffer even less likely now.

4.02 I can't see Tool sheeping scumbuddy Riptide in that spot.

4.15 TSO is the only one not voting the betting pool other than myself and I'm not sure scum would vote together that late in the game.

[Egg]

Yeah, but they'd still feel a Vigilante is more dangerous than a Watcher, even if they knew both of BPC and Egg's roles.

Um fuck no. A vig shooting wrong can win them the game. A watcher can see them killing without risking town deaths.

[Egg]

I could see ffer/TSO keeping me alive because on top of the fact that a wrong shot would cost town the game, I don't think I've so much as hinted that TSO could be scum all game and I showed excitement when ffer replaced in.

[Egg]

I said I wanted Riptide and TSO's Day 2. I'm running low on time but what I want is to see if they avoided the Burning Earth wagon because both buddies were on it (by "they" I obviously mean one of them)

Yeah TSO spends most of the day saying Burning is scum but never votes him. The interesting thing is he makes his initial case when only Tool is voting Burning Earth. I also notice TSO is hard defending Dunham. Maybe too hard for a scum partner.

Preview edit: why?

[Egg]

If I was scum and knew of a watcher and vig in a game, I'd shoot the watcher every time. Hell, ffer is right. Bipolar probably was watching me last night. He should have been. I was surprised to still be alive.

[Egg]

Looked at Elyse's ISO because she was a weird N1 kill. Only thing I see is she thought Riptide was scum.

[Egg]

Tool, I was playing WIFOM games with the scum but massclaim time is no time to continue that.

Oh and I almost forgot my thing with TSO. I buy that he went back to his Role PM to check his flavor name.

[Egg]

HS doesn't believe TSO's claim at all. I'm trying to reason out why he would claim it as scum.

Because it fits with my claim.

What does HS think of the way TSO went back to check a flavor name?

[Egg]

So I'm having trouble working out any scenario where ffery is town even though I can't find a scum partner that makes sense. Could ffery/riptide be a thing?

[Egg]

TSO, I'm kinda thinking along those lines but with my confidence going the other way. I don't see ffery/tool. What is it about riptide/tool that you don't see?

Ffery, look through my ISO. Or make a case why two of TSO/Riptide/Tool are scum. But first, convince me that TSO faked claiming in two posts to go back and check his Role PM for a flavor name. And after that, convince me that Tool was bussing Jarg. If you are town, one of those two things happened. Riptide should probably do the same thing.

[Egg]

I could go either way on the crumb honestly.

[Egg]

Tool, because it's 1-shot mostly. And PGO is unlikely to get a counterclaim.

[Egg]

Interesting vote. It makes sense because if Riptide is town, TSO has to be scum (I agree about SK-Tool-Jarg and actually made the same point earlier). But I find it more likely that Riptide and ffery are scum together

[Egg]

I don't know. Everything seems to point to Riptide but the fact that everyone thibks he is scum worries me. It means that if he is scum, he is being bussed in LYLO.

[Egg]

Yeah I meant it makes me worry he might be town. There may be an ounce of confirmation bias there on my part though because I had him as town all game.

[Egg]

Yeah I meant it makes me worry he might be town. There may be an ounce of confirmation bias there on my part though because I had him as town all game.

Who did you have as scum?

Cho, The Betting Pool, Jarg, and your slot.

[Egg]

I don't look up meta. It's a ton of work for very little information in my opinion.

[Egg]

Yeah I think scum would have quickhammered by now so one of TSO/Riptide has to be scum. I'm pretty much ready to vote Riptide. Ffery and Tool, what do you think?

[Egg]

Ok

[Egg]

Paranoia? Why? I'm SK who failed to kill 3 out of 4 nights? Scum RB on me? Or I'm scum vig who killed a buddy? Or someone else killed Jarg and fakeclaimed in massclaim? If not those crazy conspiracy theories, then what?

[Egg]

Awakening?

[Egg]

Ok yeah. I've seen scum vig before. Only saw them shoot a buddy once and it was because they thought he was a poor player who would out them (off site)

[Egg]

Yeah both possibilities make sense.

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,quote="In post 1060, Riptide"]Reading up now.

Yeah I think scum would have quickhammered by now so one of TSO/Riptide has to be scum. I'm pretty much ready to vote Riptide. Ffery and Tool, what do you think?

Actually, if Ffery or Tool thinks I'm scum, one of them should vote me first. If you vote me now, scum will most certainly quickhammer. If scum votes me now, then I have the scum team figured out.[/quote]

Yeah I kinda wanted their reaction to that. Not quite sure what to think. The above post definitely changed what Tool might say. Ffery's reaction could either be town still trying to figure things out or a buddy trying to delay things in case TSO or myself changes our minds. Then again, Tool might be setting himself up to vote. Either a quickhammer on you or a bus because you seem like the obv lynch right now.

[Egg]

Oops jacked up the quote tags.

Hey tool. What do you think about the possibility of ffery/TSO?

Ffery while you're here. What about TSO/Tool?

[Egg]

Ok, so now that we've established that everyone except Riptide thinks TSO is town... and scum have yet to quickhammer him...

Riptide absolutely has to be scum.

Am I wrong?

[Egg]

Yep, you're wrong.

I do have a question for you Egg. Does it not bother you that starting the day, everyone had a scum read on me?

If you read my last like 10 posts, you'll see that that's been bothering me.

@Egg Scum have yet to quickhammer T S O as well. And you obviously didn't read Hunger Games yet. I suggest you do.

I...just said that.

And I don't read games I wasn't in. Just tell me what happened if you want me to know.

[Egg]

Huh? No quickhammer means one of you is scum. Everyone is pretty convinced TSO is town. I don't see what you are talking about.

I did tell you

Remind me.

[Egg]

And you're saying that's what TSO is doing?

[Egg]

TSO what are those associatives?

[Egg]

K

[Egg]

Oh, I totally forgot this started again.
I agree with T S O's above point on Dunham.
Also I didn't have Riptide as scummy on D1, but I will look back at them later.

I did look into tool

and am not sure what to think. He got onto the Cho wagon at a pretty convenient point and after that didn't engage her at all. On the other hand he seemed to be genuinely trying to figure out Dunham...
@tool: How about that readlist?
@Rubicon: Care to explain why Elyse dying makes Ripscum more probable?

Is this an innocent crumb on Tool. MTD was gunsmith.

If so, the scum team is either ffery/TSO or Ffery/Riptide unless Riptide and TSO are bussing each other and in that case it makes the most sense to lynch Ffery.

[Egg]

That's his first post on Day 2.

[Egg]

Yeah I can't tell...

[Egg]

1110 is a pretty weak case.

[Egg]

Ow.

[Egg]

Tool, I'm more interested in your thoughts than you should be in mine. But things haven't changed since my last stretch of posts.

[Egg]

I fly out tonight. I am bristling with laptop, tablet, smartphone and tin cans with string. I've downloaded the thread to my laptop and to my google drive and if I can't sleep on the plane tonight I'll be working on this game.

I plan to vote sometime tomorrow.

@N, I'm semi V/LA and I don't know precisely when I'll be back to normal posting.

Just curious where any of this may have led you.

[Egg]

TSO if Riptide is scum I'lm having trouble figuring out who his buddy is. What do you think?

[Egg]

Whatever.

I wanted to see which of you two would do it first. Deadline is coming and we already know who is getting lynched.

Vote Riptide

I just hope we're right. If not, well played TSO. "Let me check my Role PM" was what convinced me.

[Egg]

That's actually a decent move not making your buddy decide whether to hammer or not. TSO, I'm counting on you to win this tomorrow.

Preview edit: lol

[Egg]

Don't even tell me it was TSO/Tool...

[Egg]

If you are town that was a dick move

[Egg]

No that's not a slip. We were clearly lynching Riptide. TSO wasn't in the same situation.

[Egg]

@Egg: I'd be interested in hearing why you shot Jargo, actually. I think that would probably be the best constructive criticism she could get. Or did you already explain somewhere?

Gut.

[Egg]

MTD I thought it was an innocent crumb because I thought you'd claim a guilty...