Mini 1536 - Silph Co. Reverse Mafia (Game Over)

[Whiskers]

Am I replaced yet?
Please don't replace me.
K thx.
Reading.

[Whiskers]

Why? Seems like forcing a dilemma here.

Experience/Gut.

Dude, I'm totally gonna lynch you.

Dashie is not conftown, though looks towny from her actions.

W-what!? "Actions"?! RainbowDash has made like, two posts up to that point. You'r freaking kidding me if you're telling me she has "townie" "actions".

They each have at least a year and a half of experience, which means they've seen that type of comment before and know it means nothing.

I have not seen that type of comment before.

UNVOTE

i'll see where this is headed before i vote again

Oooh, but I really like

this

for scum, too!
Ohm nom nom, delicious newbscum.

They should be in Newbie games instead.

HALLELUGHEIYIA!

Why

do newbies keep coming and skipping the newbie games?? Most of they time, they really, Really need to get the 'suck' beaten out of them before playing in a regular game.

i think Paschendale is trying to keep suspicion off him

Yeah because arguing a lot and making great big walls and making sure that everybody remembers you and not staying low to the ground and making unpopular accusations that make people vote for you

is

totally

scum.

going after me without actual reasoning behind it when i provided good reasons behind my vote ( after i unvoted ) seems to be a scum-like thing to do at this point in the game.

VOTE Kenobi

Lol.
Nope.
He gave

actual

reasons. Your "good reasons" weren't good. They were crap.
This blatant and obvious OMGUS makes me happy. Because it means I can feel safe and secure voting for you.

If you'd like to discuss your "good reasons" to vote Pasch, I'll gladly tell you why they are not good, but actually suck-- just ask me. I'm happy to help out a newbscum.

Vote: Zekrom25

[Whiskers]

Idk, Kenobi looks like he's getting a grasp of the game pretty well. A little irritated, maybe because he's getting conflicting messages from different players.

But no. Kenobi is not "newbscum." I think he'll shape up in to a nice, strapping, young townie before too long.

So tell me, Zekrom, please, go over it with me again. Why do you think Ken is scum?

[Whiskers]

Holy cats, Pasch! I hadn't even put that much thought into it. You make yourself look good, there.

Whiskers, my vote still resides with you. Could you comment more on the state of matters here instead of picking solely at one newbie, no matter how scummy he may be?

Ehhh... no. And I don't say that to be dickish, I mean I really am not following anything else, don't understand any of the other things well enough, to feel comfortable talking about them. The way I play, I like to hit hard and fast-- Zek is someone I can hit hard. And fast.

There was a thing with, Empking and, who, Bulbazak? And someone else? About "why are you confirmed town" and how one was scummier than the other. I didn't really see either one of the posts as scummy, and I thought Bulba was reading way too much into it. Ultimately, he started a fight just to start a fight.
And as I type that out, I'm thinking, "what the hell is actually so bad about that?" It's Day 1, after all. Big Stupid Argument jumpstarts the game. And Scum, as a principle, don't want to draw attention to themselves, so why start a fight?

Sooooo. Yeap. Null reads all around, I guess?
I'm wary of Kenobi. Mainly, because he looks good. If you're good, you're harder to catch as scum. I'm wary of him.
Eh, also I'm having trouble remembering players, or remembering anything they did. Let me play a little while longer.
Or, ask me specific questions.

[Whiskers]

I vote Whiskers mainly for the lack of substantial game content while making an extensively case on an easy lynch target, however scummy.
This is a vote that could possibly change but so far it just feels like whiskers is going with the flow and not trying to find scum amongst more experienced players.

Ok. Follow your heart, little antelope.

______

I'm not over the moon about Tiershift's whole defending the newbies thing, but I do think it's unlikely he'd be doing it if he was buddies with them.

Are you sure? He dropped it pretty quick, too. So that thing that scum wouldn't do? He's no longer doing it.

As you can see, I said that I've dropped the issue since I find both newbies (especially zekrom) to be scummy now. I'm fine with you voting for zekrom.

______

Yeah, but did you notice the difference in reactions? Psyche essentially shrugged me off, which I took to be a town reaction. Empking, however, got extremely defensive and unnecessarily OMGUS'd me. Coming from a generally passive player, that's not a town reaction.

See, that's interesting. I thought you were attacking Psyche, not Empking. I'm clearly not following it super well. With that in mind, I didn't see a big reaction from Emp.

[Whiskers]

@Bulbazak: Yeah, I think I might have rolled you and Maxious into the same person/attack.
But to be fair,

this

is the "full back and forth":

Spoiler:

Unvote

Vote Empking

Most likely scum on the wagon.

Unvote

Vote Empking

Most likely scum on the wagon.

1. Why?
2. Why didn't you place your vote when I placed my vote?

Also im confirmed town. So that is nice.

this isn't obvious, so I have to wonder why say this so soon

This is the only thing that looks scummy so far, "I have to wonder" is too passive of an attack.

vote: Psyche

Why Psyche when Empking essentially did the same thing?

Unvote

Vote Empking

Most likely scum on the wagon.

1. Why?

Mainly for the fishing and the fact that you sheeped RBD rather quickly while simultaneously questioning his conf. townness.

2. Why didn't you place your vote when I placed my vote?

I wanted to see what happened. Plus, I was more interested in engaging with Psyche.

Psyche, why aren't you voting?

What is the purpose of this question?

To determine motivation.

Empking was asking if RBD is literally conf-town or not.
Psych was implying the post was suspicious.

Empking's question was a stupid one. Both posts were essentially doing the same thing.

Unvote,
Vote: Bulb[\b]

I think he's forcing it, and is wrong about everything.

1. Why?

Mainly for the fishing and the fact that you sheeped RBD rather quickly while simultaneously questioning his conf. townness.

And then this is the only thing he "failed to address", because it's the only thing you said. This was your whole attack, up to the part you quoted just now.


But yeah, I agreed with it when I first read it. Reading it again (and understanding it a bit better now), I'd say neither of you had made enough posts for you to have been "wrong about everything". And that probably, it was Maxious that I thought was "wrong about everything" instead.

[Whiskers]

Sry can't find it quote the scumhunting please

If you want to be stingy, you can go with posts 002 and 003 (the 3rd and 4th posts) in his ISO.

[Whiskers]

Its been a long time since Ive done an alliance, we should do that.

How come you only do this at

my

parties?

[Whiskers]

Now, im curious, how does not having reads make me scum?

Well, no, it mostly just makes you a lazy useless piece of shit. Which is incredibly anti-town, and so you might as well be scum.

[Whiskers]

I don't think Emp's been under the radar. He took a very confrontational stance with the Bulba stuff, which is likely to draw attention, and it has. I'd say I'm much more of someone who's under the radar right now.

Empking has been repeating the same stuff over and over again and thus doesn't stick out anymore.

You, on the other hand, have been visible to me all game and I know where I stand on you (town)

Us being on page 10 is fucking ridiculous.

@mod: is there a deadline of any kind?

I disagree. The people who have been arguing and shit are not "under the radar". If you can't get a read/remember who someone is, even though they're posting constantly and making a fool of themselves, even though you're having a big argument with them now, that's your own problem?

More "under the radar" are Rainbow Dash, who has posted like, four times, and Maxious, who I haven't seen a post from recently, and during my catch up confused everything he posted for Bulbazak, so didn't remember him

at all

.

[Whiskers]

Unvote

(needlessly)

Vote: Empking

[Whiskers]

You can't expect to WIN this game unless you at least POST.

I'm being uncharacteristically quiet so as to draw the nightkill.
I'm pretty sure it's working.

[Whiskers]

Does anyone actually think that TierShift is town?

Is this why I'm scum

It also really feels like Tier is trying to protect Zek. No part of me would be surprised to see them on a scumteam together.

Or is this?

Confused

One of those is not a reason, nor is it trying to be.

[Whiskers]

I could also go for a cxi lynch. Dunno if he's scum but if he's going to play the whole game contradicting himself, he's a pretty good day 1 lynch.
So let me recap, people I'm currently willing to lynch:
Zekrom
Empking
CXI: MiJelly

[Whiskers]

@Zekrom: Forgetting to bold something makes me scummy? O.o I... wut. My vote is staying on you for the time being, because that is either the stupidest or the scummiest thing I've ever seen. Sorry.

well i was letting it slide since you could be town, however your response seems scummy

Zekrom if you think Kenobi is scummy why don't you vote him?

Unvote
Vote: Zekrom

Kenobi may be town

and paschendale??

too soon to tell however i think is town

Oh my god.

Yes, clearly, any of them "could be town" and it's "too soon to tell" about

any of them

. Vote something, if you aren't doing so already.

[Whiskers]

You think that my post was only to get him active, yet you disagree that my post is for pressure (Activity votes are considered to be pressure votes)?

Voting, making a post, accusing someone are all actions. Do you disagree with this?

I still don't see the contradictions.

Dude, someone was like, "He's scum 'cause he CLAIMS he voted for pressure!" and then you quoted him and was like, "Yeah, that

would

be true, if I

were

voting for pressure!!"

[Whiskers]

(Of course with a lot of cautiousness exerted)

stop going 'i'm so cautious' and start kicking ass in the thread.
that is what I am saying.

You're currently my fave, Maxi.

[Whiskers]

unvote.
vote: cx inlee

cx lewis, claim? reads for us? anything else to consider?

THIS IS

L-1

SO MAKE SURE YOUR HAMMER IS INTENTIONAL.

[Whiskers]

No, I agree. He was at L-1. Now he's at L-2, no pressure. L-2 is not L-1, and L-1 is not lynched. Why the fuck would you remove your vote if you're trying to pressure him into action?

[Whiskers]

Upon reading page 14, I have come to the conclusion that the whole fucking town has lost their fucking minds.
Thanks.

Oh, except Psyche. But yes, even Psyche, because the single strongest piece of evidence I have to this end is that everybody is going, "WOW, CXI THREATENING TO SELFHAMMER IS A TOTALLY TOWNIE THING TO DO WOW!"
Which is great, except he's

not

simply dumbtown for threatening to do it. He'd be dumbtown if he had actually

done

it.
RainbowDash's interpretation of it is by far the worst one. She says that, because he gave reads and threatened to self-hammer, that makes him

super-

town. Because scum would just selfhammer.

Uh, no. I'm staggered that that line of horseshit is coming from you.

Firstly, to everyone: Scum wouldn't just selfhammer. Scum who is under enough pressure to actually self-hammer might "just selfhammer". Town who was very new and inexperienced and poor, or town who knew they needed to selfvote for ANY lynch to go through, and a self-lynch was better than a no-lynch, might "just selfhammer".
For

every single body else

, it's a ploy. Emotional Town or Nothing-To-Lose Scum threatens to selfhammer, and suddenly the whole wagon jumps off. Wow!

To RainbowDash specifically: Please realize that the best way to blend in with town is to act like town and play like a townie. Giving final reads is something that, yes, town

should

do, before they're lynched. It's also something clever scum do, for two reasons. (I can't believe I'm explaining this to you.) Firstly, it makes players like you, RBD, go "oh wow, he gave reads! He's soooo town! Can we keep him, pleeeeeease?" Secondly, it has the potential to make players ambitious enough to look to those final reads for clues, very confused, with fun WIFOM. It's a Mini. If you get lynched Day 1, but screw with enough heads, you can win the game for your faction.

Now, that's all putting a heavy burden of proficiency on CXI, perhaps. But recall that I specifically appealed to him for his final reads (at least, I think I did-- I'm swamped and in an offsite game where I have to ask people for reads

constantly

or they don't do a single god damned thing), and the fact that he only ever

threatened

to selfvote, I don't think you can conf-town him just yet. I really don't.

[Whiskers]

I'm definitely not seeing anything in the last page, least of all the reaction to his wagon, to make Cx look townier. Tiershift and Zek are still my top scumreads. I'm cool to lynch Zek today, as he has all but claimed scum, but I really feel like a lot of players have gone under the radar.

VOTE: Tiershift

Why were you ever voting Cxi in the first place, if you didn't have a scumread on him?

Because now, both Tiershift and Zekrom are higher scumreads from you, than Cxi is-- despite the fact that nothing Cxi did in the last page gave you a townier read on him??
Why did you even vote him, then?

I also want to discuss,

I'm cool to lynch Zek today, as he has all but claimed scum,

OK. I'm gonna go ahead and say, yes, I don't like him for town. He makes a great policy lynch. And hey, maybe he'll flip scum, too! Zekrom makes a great Day 1 lynch.
But no, he has not "all but claimed scum." You're joking, right?

In no way do I intend to invoke "too dumb to scum", but I should point out that Zekrom's recent post to RainbowDash-- something about "If you are town, why would you want to lynch a potentially town player!"-- is clear evidence that he is crap at the game. Perhaps your skill will improve at some point, Zekrom, but right now, you're pretty crap.

That post is both an indirect attack-- an OMGUS, no less-- and a townclaim, which is useless. Worse still is that he acts like Town-RainbowDash should already know his alignment, when she

could not

. Even as Cop, she couldn't. Only as Masons-with-Zekrom, or as Scum, would RBD already know Zek's alignment.

It is evident that Zek hasn't thought this post through, and I'd go so far as to say that it's clear that Zek hasn't thought

at all

. He still makes a great lynch, but "Oh wow he p much claimed scum" is bullshit and it reflects poorly-- and by that, I mean scummily-- on you for suggesting it.

[Whiskers]

Finally I got some damn time on the net.
Dry-fit:
I was feeling suicidal, when you lose all hope in the game and don’t care about it anymore.

Yeah so, null.
cool.

Whiskers’ #273 is basically “I don’t know if he’s scum but let’s lynch him anyway”. Please explain this.

Yeah, that's pretty much it. I should point out it wasn't until several pages later that I actually voted you, preferring other, better policy-lynch players (Zekrom, for example), but when Tiershift went "dude, the game has become boring, can we just lynch?" I said to myself, "yeap, sounds good."

[Whiskers]

Tier why do you find Emp a more plausible lynch than cx when Emp had no votes on him when you voted?

Zekrom could you tell us what mafia experience you have?

He watched The Godfather on a plane once.

How do you know he'll pick wrong in lylo? If he's truly clueless it seems like it would be a coinflip. Also not interested in a policy lynch.

How about, "town is better off having a LyLo of two scum and one townie, than one townie, one mafia, and one Zekrom," instead of a simple, "he'll pick wrong"? How about, if you have to be exact and specific and nuanced and verbose, we just say, "we can put no faith in his skill, since thus far, his main inspiration seems to be rubbish, and his chances of deducing which player is scum in a high-tensity situation is going to be 0:1, or possibly lower." Maybe something like "three deserters are more likely to pull off a townwin
in LYLO.

I do not

want

a coinflip, Dry-fit.

[Whiskers]

i probably may be night killed so the mafia scum may be waiting for a town to vote against another town

I actually laughed out loud.

[Whiskers]

vote: Zekrom25

I'm not super-confident he's scum but it's plausible enough to lynch.
He's been under the spotlight for a while now and I don't see a town reaction out of him.

Whoa man, careful.
He might be potentially town.
Also maybe probably the nightkill.

Why don't you wait until town starts voting town, bro?
Jeez, it's like you don't know how to play.

[Whiskers]

RQS - random questions
PoE - proved evidence ???

Random Question Stage, usually accompanied by or substituted for, the Random Vote Stage. Almost always occurs only in the beginning of the game, in the very first few pages. Is used, much like the Random Voting Stage (RVS), to generate content and begin the game.

Process of Elimination, a means of finding scum, by first ruling out who could not be scum (from various sources, such as cop-checks, attacks so hard they're unlikely to be bussing, Mason Partners, Inocent Child reveals, whatever). Or, a means of finding anything, really, by removing all of the things that are

not

it. ((Want only Vanilla ice cream? Remove all of the other flavours of ice cream, and by this Process of Elimination, you will be left only with Vanilla.))

Now, let's look at what you said, with the definitions you provided (not the correct ones-- let's find out what you meant, not what you said):

currently this mistake needs

Random Questions/Provided Evidence

before it becomes a

Mislynch or Lose

situation ( like with my first mafia game where the town loses after mis-lynching me )

Not sure what mistake-- I assume you mean the fact that we're voting you.
Not sure how Random Questions would help.
Provided evidence would be nice, depending on what the evidence is for. Do you have any evidence for us to examine? Looks like you're trying some kind of meta thing, by referencing your first mafia game.
However, I should assure you, town has quite a ways to go (even if you are a mislynch) before we're in a MyLo, or even a LyLo situation.

So don't worry about it, mate!

[Whiskers]

Because his lack of useful content was pissing me off and I wanted to pressure him. But then not only did he not produce any useful ideas (besides his self-hammer shennanigans, and I agree with your analysis of it), but then people were actually going to lynch him in what was pretty clearly a scummy push. I don't know Cx's alignment, but I feel a lot more sure of Tiershift and Zek.

I don't get it, Pasch. He was useless. Then, he continued to be useless, and did the self-hammer drama (which you claim not to have fallen for). Then, "people were actually going to lynch him." Er, where's the problem?
Please do go into detail about how the push was "pretty clearly scummy".

It is evident that Zek hasn't thought this post through, and I'd go so far as to say that it's clear that Zek hasn't thought

at all

. He still makes a great lynch, but "Oh wow he p much claimed scum" is bullshit and it reflects poorly-- and by that, I mean scummily-- on you for suggesting it.

I have a personal policy of not letting scummy players off the hook due to looking like they might be inexperienced. I usually end up paying for it later when I do. But Zek, as amateur as he is, genuinely looks like amateur scum rather than amateur town. He doesn't react like town, his ideas aren't town. There's deception in his posts. They're poorly disguised, but it doesn't read like genuine attempts to help town win. I don't see him as a policy lynch. Kenobi would be a policy lynch. But I don't see him as scum.

Ok so, this is a little interesting: you seem to ignore me here. Zekrom didn't "pretty much claim scum." He "pretty much was a terrible noob." You don't address this at all. You instead say, "I'm not letting him off the hook for being a noob, he really looks scummy!" That's great, but I'm not worried about you him being scummy, I'm worried about you claiming "He pretty much claimed scum," which is a manipulative, scummy way of pushing that lynch.

That's an insanely good list, bulba. Only position I don't understand is pasch, why do you think he's scum?

But Tiershift, Tiershift doesn't have that excuse either way. He's been consistently against progress the whole day, has relied on crap arguments, and generally gives reads that look strategic rather than genuine.

Strange!

TierShift, are you still "against progress"? Is Pasch's read on you accurate and correct? Apt? Because right now, I could pretty much go ahead and say that either you or he is scum. Which is it?

[Whiskers]

Whiskers, you're basically just asking over and over about a judgement call. Several times, I've lost games by not lynching scum because they looked like they were just noobs. People play that way on purpose to deflect criticism. So many people have alts and hydras that their join date being recent is no indication whatsoever of their ability. I didn't think that Zek was incompetent. His actions looked deliberate to me. And they were deliberately anti-town. A tantrum and a self-hammer is anti-town. He just wasn't playing to his win con.

No, I'm not.
See, and I'll fight you over this! You're not saying he's scum, you said,

he claimed scum

. That's a scummy way of pushing for your lynch.

Furthermore, I agree, to some extent, with this:

Can someone who isn't Bulba and didn't spend all of day 1 arguing with Empking over what amounted to nothing weigh in on Emp and someone who isn't Emp weigh in on Bulba? I feel like both of them spent the whole of day 1 arguing and voting each other without giving any reasons why the rest of us would agree, which is a great distancing tactic. I think that if one of them is scum, they probably both are.

This is awful. Really awful. This sets up both bulba and emp lynches. If one flips town, the other one is scum. If one flips scum, the other one is scum.

While complaining that all the attention was on Emp and Bulba here, you bring all of the attention back to Emp and Bulba-- two players nobody else gives a whit about, two players nobody else would spend any time on, if you hadn't reminded us that "wah, wah, they did nothing Day 1!" We

know

. It doesn't

matter

. Why are you pointing it out?

[Whiskers]

Whiskers:
So, you have a policy of lynching the useless and anti-town players, regardless of alignment?

Yes, pretty much. It's especially a good time to do it Day 1.

AJ, there are literally 3 sentences in that post of why you think Emp is scum, and most of them revolve around Emp thinking that Tiershift is scum. Tiershift is my top scumread. So... got any better reasons?

My problem with Emp is that I think he and Bulba are scum for exactly the same reasons, but as I said above, I think they are the same alignment. If I'm wrong about Tiershift, then I will definitely want to string one or both of them up. But Emp and Bulba have, while doing the same thing (fighting with each other over nothing and ignore everything else going on yesterday), done it differently. I think Bulba spouted out more bullshit, and would want to lynch there first. I think that's a good way to set up a bus. But I'm certainly less sure of this than of Tiershift being scum.

So, I'm willing, but not eager, to support the wagon, but I don't want it to go down while people are saying that Empking is scummier than Bulba, because I find them equally scummy, and I think they're the same alignment.

My problem with Emp is that I think he and Bulba are scum for exactly the same reasons, but as I said above, I think they are the same alignment. If I'm wrong about Tiershift, then I will definitely want to string one or both of them up. But Emp and Bulba have, while doing the same thing (fighting with each other over nothing and ignore everything else going on yesterday), done it differently. I think Bulba spouted out more bullshit, and would want to lynch there first. I think that's a good way to set up a bus. But I'm certainly less sure of this than of Tiershift being scum.

So, I'm willing, but not eager, to support the wagon, but I don't want it to go down while people are saying that Empking is scummier than Bulba, because I find them equally scummy, and I think they're the same alignment.

You say Emp and I are scummy for the same reasons, what are those? You accuse me of spouting more BS (which is funny given Emp's whole argument is false and based on semantics), even though you never made much of an effort to understand my argument, even though I explained it multiple times. Furthermore, it's interesting what you are ignoring that Emp has done nothing outside of his OMGUS of Tier and myself, where I have tried to scumhunt elsewhere and actually participated in other discussions d1. So tell me, from which orifice are you pulling this newest interpretation of the Emp/Bulb/Tier argument? Because it seems to me that you're lining up future lynches for when Tier flips town.

vote: Paschendale

[Whiskers]

Forgive me a bit of bravado. No one ever actually claims scum. But when I try to speak in a more reserved fashion, I tend to get mislynched. Which you're apparently trying to do... over my tone. Why are you voting for me? Because Bulba wasn't reading the reasons why I said I suspected him and Emp? Because I wanted to know if anyone other than Bulba or Emp had a reason to vote for either one of them? I don't know what you're seeing, Whiskers.

Man, I'm definitely trying to get you mislynched, because I definitely know you're town, and am definitely pushing a lynch on you regardless (or because!) of it.

TBH, a lot of why I'm voting you is because Bulbazak actually wasn't a big lump during all of Day 1, but you keep mentioning how he was just as crap as Empking. I'll reread at some point, I s'pose, but that's not true. It was true for a while, but then Bulba actually kind of stepped up and did something, although I'll admit I don't remember what.

Oh, I should also mention here, because it's as good a time as any: Empking does this. Those of you fighting to lynch Empking should know that, you won't lynch empking, because there's simply not enough, or his scumteam is helping him, or something. You will not lynch him early on, and if you keep trying to, you will just end up wasting a bunch of time trying to lynch him early on. Try lynching him later, when there's more content of his (and general game-content, like flips) to analyze. If he's scum, he'll keep being pretty apparently scum, but if I remember Empking right, he does butterfly eventually as town and can be really useful and good, if you can just play

around

him for the first few days.

[Whiskers]

Then pasch went on onto me, for defending my scumbuddies,

Wow, what a slip!

[Whiskers]

And what is "this"? Death tunnel people seemingly chosen at random? Refuse to contribute to what the rest of the players are talking about?

Yeah, pretty much. the deathtunnel bit, less so, but he's fairly useless in the beginning. And he doesn't like to admit it or anything; he has an ego. And while we're on that topic,

Which do you think is more likely? One of them found scum right away in this game and has been valiantly fighting, despite not being able to convince the rest of us at all throughout day 1? Or perhaps it was an intentional scum gambit to distance two teammates to setup an easy bus and avoid being entangled with the day 1 lynch?

Or maybe it's just two townies with ego yelling at each other?

I don't know about you, but the first option seems a lot less likely than the other two.

Yeah, that's actually really really likely.

Btw, weren't

you

the one suggesting that they were both scum or both town?

Basically, the only one you should be argu-- oh you

are

only arguing against the first one. Ok, my bad, I misunderstood this at first.

Alright, let me stop though and say, while I don't think one is "caught scum", I think it's more like, one is "possibly scum," who happened to get caught in a big argument. I don't think you can rule out "one scum, one town," but I agree that neither one of them is so incredibly insightful that they have actually reasonably "caught" the other one. They're working on not a lot more than OMGUS.

[Whiskers]

Maybe.

However, I think it might be a better tactic to lynch scum, by which, of course, I mean Dry-fit.

[Whiskers]

I also find it kind of strange that most people are townreading me this game, but whatevs.

Aye, me too.

[Whiskers]

Vote: Dry-fit

[Whiskers]

That's cool we'll just lynch you next when empking flips town.

[Whiskers]

Dry: Why is empking town?

[Whiskers]

[APPLAUSE]

[Whiskers]

Dry: Why is empking town?

Empking starting out the game picking a fight like he did and being so extremely stubborn about it is the complete opposite of a survivalistic strategy. He couldn't expect to get to endgame playing like that.

Uh-huh. And now take into account the fact that Empking is a highly experienced player with a 2008 join date, and not a total noob.

Did empking have good arguments? Was the fight he picked,

going

anywhere? Or did he just towntell (apparently), and continue the bullshit, anit-town, non-argument, to look busy and stay relevant? With his action as relatively low as it is, do you think he was in danger of being lynched?

[Whiskers]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Tiershift

That was absolutely terrible. The posturing was incredibly strong there. He's allowing himself a very easy secondary target should Emp's wagon go down, and he's not even trying to provide legwork for it.

However, I think it should be stated that this game probably ends as soon as we lynch through Emp/Tier/Dry, perhaps one more.

Good, that's good. I could handle that.

[Whiskers]

Reading up when I'm not totally jetlagged.

Oh, cool!

Isn't it strange, we never fight like cats & dogs?

[Whiskers]

Well, that tells us Ken is town then, doesn't it?

Unvote

[Whiskers]

Pasch on the other hand I feel

has been spewing hate all around

and is more likely to actually flip scum than emp.

L-2 now

Please explain this,
or I will lynch you.

When half the player base claims to suspect you, that's what'll inevitably happen.

What, not scumhunt? When half the player base suspects you, you'll inevitably

not scumhunt??

Can you explain how Empking is a town read? My mind is having issues comprehending this belief. But the pasche wagon is bad. Not to mention one of the votes on him is Tiershift, who has another awful reason.

"Spewing hatred" is both a lie in and of itself and a poisoning fallacy.

His ease to believe Empking will play better simply because whiskers said so yet the fact that he and empking have had issues all game is a showing of contradiction. He's jumping to another clean wagon, from Emp, to the one set for a jump on Dry-fit, now to Paschedale as soon as the votes started swinging that way.

Tiershift is scum.

Oh, good.

Ok, yeah. Remind me later when I'm kind of being half-assed suspicious of your, that you're unreasonably town. Remind me of this post. Because I will surely forget, and think at somepoint that you might be scum, and you're not, you're just

so

not.

[Whiskers]

Pasch on the other hand I feel

has been spewing hate all around

and is more likely to actually flip scum than emp.

L-2 now

Please explain this,
or I will lynch you.

When half the player base claims to suspect you, that's what'll inevitably happen.

What, not scumhunt? When half the player base suspects you, you'll inevitably

not scumhunt??

[Whiskers]

I'm doubtful and bulba is doubtful too, as far as I can see. It's a pretty weird unnecessary claim and why he targeted RBD yet remains to be explained.
Pasch's claim also means he was roleblocked for whatever reason I don't see.

That's unsettling.

[Whiskers]

Mod sent me new results. Dashie didn't poison anyone.

Yes, Cheery is apparently still calling me scum. And it seems to basically be a chainsaw of Tiershift.

Huh, this actually looks like a legit claim. Still, I wonder why he tracked RBD and why RBD didn't poison anyone.

Pasch will most likely be dying tonight, either because he's scum and lying about not being poisoned and he's just claiming tracker to get a chance to talk to his buds or because he's a tracker that scum obviously cannot leave alive.

So pasch, if you could give some big reads list before day end, please?

These are also fairly upsetting.

[Whiskers]

Yeah, I changed my mind after hearing he got his results in late.

Even after the mod said, "No, you wouldn't get results, in the scenario"? That makes it very,

very

strange that he'd get results at all, let alone suspiciously conveniently-timed ones.

Anyway.

I'm down for voting and lynching tiershift, all of a sudden. Just throwing that out there.

[Whiskers]

I'm only going to vote tier if I want to prevent a nl.

Why is Pasch's claim real? is it possible for a scum tracker to exist? And why claim so early?

Why did you avoid mentioning Emp?

Doctor Bulb, I clearly haven't been particularly invested in this game so far, but please do remind me: has Tiershift generally been so buddy with you?

Like, does he always have his snakes in your

c

asserole? Does he always hang his shoes in your

o

vercoat? Does he always tickle the beard on your

p

entacles?

Because he seems very excited to lump you in with him now. Like you're an

item

. Like he's scum, and wants people to look at you, when he flips it. Or like he's scum, and not clever or experienced enough to know he shouldn't be rubbing and purring with his scumpartner.

Regardless, it's all very upsetting. Do you have any idea, mate?

[Whiskers]

Dry-fit, the reasoning you gave for emp being town-- that is, that he was arguing in such a bullheaded and fruitless way, that it would have been entirely stupid as town

or

scum-- doesn't give me any sort of confidence that he's town.

[Whiskers]

I'll go ahead and do it;

Vote: Empking

[Whiskers]

For some reason, bulba seems to fit the criteria and him not noticing me buddying him and calling this equal to my towngame from before are all pretty odd.

This is actually interesting. Do we have meta on Bulbazak? Is he decent as scum? Because if he's not.... you might have a thing there.

As for the rest of your post, I think it bases too much on assumptions. Why do you think there were scum on and off the wagon? I mean, sure, maybe. But unless you're scum yourself, scum could have been anywhere, could'a' been "Not Voting," for how the empking wagon went down: creepingly slowly, and painfully.

[Whiskers]

Also, I'm not lynching Dry-Fit or Cheery Dog for any reason.

This, if it wasn't very obvious to anyone.
Not lynching them.

Oh hey, more buddying.

Hmm, who else on the emp wagon is scum?
Since you've been convinced of me being scum all game now, have you already found a single one of my buddies?

Come on, you know he can't use associative tells to find your scumbuddies until you flip scum.

And, in the interest of using associative tells to find your scumbuddies,

Vote: Tiershift

[Whiskers]

I have not expressed any suspicion of whiskers lately and suggedting my post was posturing to do so just isn' t correct.

Btw, I should go ahead and say now; I'm not town.

That's really all I can fairly say about it, though.

[Whiskers]

Empking is really the sort of player that gets in my way-- when he does anything at all.

But why are you asking me this? Wouldn't a shot have triggered

your

* vest? Isn't it more-plausible to assume Empking was poisoned by RBD, died Night 2 as a result, bypassing the BP, as (somebody?) suggested?

*((I recognize now that that was not actually you. I mixed you up with someone else; you might not have that information.))

Anyway, I'm not into disclosing the nature of my role just yet; whether I even have

any

"shots" is classified information. Just know that I'm not explicitly anti-town. Only explicitly not-town.

[Whiskers]

/in after tigers

[Whiskers]

Tracking cx is a fucking scumclaim. Cx basically claimed VT when he was willing to selfhammer. If cx is scum there's no way scum would let them do the NK, seeing pasch has suspicions of him.

There is no way a tracker would track a scummy player who claimed vt.

pasch did not track cx!

VOTE: pasch

Also notice the happy little appeal in his latest post so cuuute

...what?

I was following you there, for a while. Cx did make a big scummy appeal to emotion and threatened to selfhammer (though, he didn't actually do it). If Cx were scum, you're right, it would be stupid for scum to let him make the kill, because he'd have all the attention on himself (although, maybe not, since that AtE seemed to get him off the hook for a lynch, eh?).
...why would a tracker not track that player? He doesn't have to catch the kill, you know. Any motion is important.

Why the crap would pasch track cx? Hmm?

If even pasch has no idea it's pretty obvious that he's lying.

Well doc, in the last post of yours I quoted, you said that Pasch suspected Cx.
Seems like a great, grand reason to track him.

[Whiskers]

...why would a tracker not track that player? He doesn't have to catch the kill, you know. Any motion is important.

And besides, Cx had just claimed VT, right? So-- and this is a little WIFOM here-- that's the best time for Cx to do anything... because, following your own logic, nobody would investigate him.

Better still: SINCE Cx had claimed vanilla, tracking him to any target would mean that Cx is a big fat liar, and "lynch all liars", so.

[preedit]
...why would he track you? You haven't claimed, iirc, so you're probably VT: not trying any gambits, not claiming anything and getting pressure off yourself...

[Whiskers]

*cough*occam's razor lol*cough*

Do you even know what that means, TS, or are you just repeating what you saw someone else say?

[Whiskers]

@Pasch: Maxous is the person I'm most sure is scum. Him suspecting Emp for "attacking everyone who attacked him" does not read like town reasoning.

:\

See, DF, the problem with this post is that that's actually really good reasoning. "Attacking everyone who attacked him" is something that a shitty player would do. Since Empking has sort of a reputation as not-being a shitty player, it's very strange-- and so, scummy-- that he would play so shittily. Why Empking did so is still a fucking incredible mystery, and my guess is that the masons are secretly evil and Empking actually

was

scum (and so are you), because "Reverse Mafia".

Actually, no, that's not my guess.

But seriously, that was a great reason to suspect Emp. I can't speak for the rest of Maxous's play-- I can't remember a single god damned thing he's done this game, for instance-- but if you're going to pick out one thing to attack him for, it should probably not be that, because that's fucking garbage, mate.

There's a decent chance that anyone I see using an ability is actually town, rather than scum making a kill or using an ability. Tier right here is trying to use me as a pro-scum role cop to get rid of town PRs. Obviously, if I track someone and the person they visit is dead the next morning, that's a decent guilty result. But Tier isn't making any differentiation. He's just hoping I'll out a doc or something like that.

Maybe.

I've actually come all the way around to suspecting that maybe Tiershift is just sort of a crap player-- by which I mean, he's a townie, a vanilla townie. He's trying really fucking hard for things to make sense, and they just don't, because he doesn't have all of the information; the information of the informed minority. So he's grasping at straws, and he's doing it very obviously and clumsily, jumping from one theory to the next, closest theory that makes sense. And yes, it all looks very bad and scummy and clumsy and bad. But that's because he's a shitty player-- by which I mean a vanilla townie-- and we really can't hold it against him. Can we?

Now, I can't tell y'all who I think you

should

lynch. Any of the players I can actually name are players I'd be kind of against lynching-- maybe not Cheery Dog. Can't think of a good reason she should be town. But then, I don't have any reason to think she's scum, either, so.

[Whiskers]

Also pasch, as TS said,

It's taking the theory that needs the least assumptions. A scum tracker is quite a huge assumption, while a town tracker is not.

You can confirm yourself. Can't you? If you'd like, you can track me tonight-- but I'll leave that up to you.

[Whiskers]

My major reasons are still what they were when I first voted him yesterday in with the anti-newbie defend stuff.

you said you ignored empking because he was practically impossible to get a read on him along with the other players who are'nt posting much.
what's your reason for ignoring talking about tiershift today?

I'm not? I'm not going to reply to every post.

What is your opinion on TierShift, then? The last time you talked

about

him (rather than merely

to

him, about something else) was yesterDay-- in the same post that said "emp is hard to read!"-- and there you just said "whoa, idk about TierShift! But let's lynch him anyway."

[Whiskers]

Do you consider a scum tracker a possibility?

Given that I've been on a team with a scum tracker before, I do consider the existence of such a role a possibility. I just don't think it's likely given Pasch's reaction.

Can you explain this, please? I think you're very calm and collected, and should have no trouble with it. I'm curious, so. Can you hit this in more detail? Why do Pasch's claim and reaction make him a town tracker, not a scum one?

[Whiskers]

but scum tracker claiming town tracker is ballsy, given scum tracker suggests a mildly powerful town power role compliment

This doesn't count, btw, Bulba. Because You specifically pointed out "the way he claimed" and later "his reactions" as reasons he wasn't scum.

[Whiskers]

At best, it's a big dose of WINFOM.

Only $19.99!

[Whiskers]

To put it shortly:
"Catch 'em all!"

[Whiskers]

It has directly to do with the nightkills, so I don't really want to disclose anything until I've already almost-met it.

[Whiskers]

VOTE: Whiskers

Nothing here makes me trust that you won't make us lose, and that is the one answer we really wanted from you.

Ok.

Vote: Paschendale

[Whiskers]

VOTE: Whiskers

Nothing here makes me trust that you won't make us lose, and that is the one answer we really wanted from you.

Ok.

Vote: Paschendale

Just so you know, we're both still voting Tiershift, according to rule 6a.

In fact,
Bulbazak: TierShift,
Maxous: Dry-fit,
Tiershift: Bulbazak, Paschendale, Aj The Epic, Whiskers,
Paschendale: Cheery Dog, Kenobi,
Cheery Dog: Maxous,

With 10 players alive, we can assume it's 6 (50%+1) to lynch. Tiershift is in the lead at L-2.

[Whiskers]

Ok, two things:
1: No, that would be stupid, and I wouldn't have claimed in the first place. I'd be fearfully guarding the information.
2: If I did have a wincondition that prevented you from winning, and for some reason was in the position I am now, why would I not outright lie to you?

[Whiskers]

I didn't claim not to lie.

What I'm asking is, what's the use in you asking that question? When you give me a choice like, "Answer this way, or be lynched!!" what incentive do I have to answer the way you want me to, lie or no?

And, I'll say again: it would be stupid for me to claim, when it would reveal me to be anti-town. Instead, you can use your own fucking brain, and put a little faith in the concept that I'm not an absolutely moronic fucktard and probably didn't claim just because I want extra hard to be lynched.

Or, you should consider that, if I want extra hard to be lynched, I'm probably playing as my favourite role...

[Whiskers]

I still don't believe it's a confirmable role. I'm aware that it would invovle a blind guess normally, but we have to remember that whiskers

isn't town

.

lol?
so Pasch can track Whiskers and prove he is a tracker role at least, but we can't trust Whiskers verifying it because Whiskers claimed a third party role.

Still doesn't stop Pasch being scum.

But the point is since we can't trust whiskers, there's pasch can outright lie a result and we won't know any better. He did just commit a no kill gambit, so who knows anything.

Then have him track someone else.
Or, you know, lynch him.

[Whiskers]

I'm a bad liar, and keeping info like this under wraps is very stressful to me. Also, I'm well aware that the more information town has, the more they can use it to combat scum. Informing the uninformed majority.

[Whiskers]

Whiskers could have been cooperative. Whiskers could have not mentioned anything. The only result of this claim was to cause confusion. He's not giving us any useful information to hunt scum. He's doing nothing but turning himself into a liability. This is no different than someone who refuses to do anything but self-vote. It only hurts. It doesn't help. Why do you trust him?

Yeah, yeah, whatever.

Unvote
Vote: Paschendale

With regards to

me

, You've wasted a bunch of time rolefishing on me, tried to lead me to say certain things ("does your wincondition clash with my wincondition?") promising not to vote me if I did-- actually, more like threatening to vote me if I didn't say them-- and even when I did say them, you still vote me.
You're failing to see the protown motivation of giving the town

any

information that they didn't have before, ignoring the fact that I was under

no

pressure to claim, and too bull-headed to realize that if I claimed, it wouldn't have been something that would get me immediately lynched.

That's all assuming you're not straight-up scum.

Since I

claimed

to you, and you know I am not one, would you care to look for

mafia

players?

I would think you'd trust my answer, ("does your wincon end the game, does it prevent me from winning??") since you

asked

in the first place. Clearly though, you don't, since you're voting me now. Why even ask, then?

Better: Why lynch a third-party who intends to aid town, when

that is the thing that the mafia fear the very most?

Truthfully, that's one of the big three things that read scum to me, Pasch. That you're afraid of a town-aligned Indep, That you're rolefishing heavily and focusing exclusively on my off-the-cuff claim, That you're dancing around voting me and pretending like you're trying to find an excuse to

not

vote me, when you're just waiting to vote me all this time.

Actually I'm looking through your ISO and the bit about you tunnelling me isn't really true, so I guess that's just two things that read scum.

[Whiskers]

Whiskers could have been cooperative.

Can you be more specific? You're acting as though this isn't the case.

[Whiskers]

he's guaranteeing to avoid a night kill.

Except, not in the slightest.

[Whiskers]

I still have no idea why anyone would vote whiskers, who voluntarily shared role info with us. Does anyone truly believe an anti-town 3rd party would just claim 3rd party? Really?
I think she actually is third party by now, seeing how long she keeps this up.

Dry, why don't you come over for a bulba vote? I'm actually down to vote max as well, but it seems like there is less support for a max lynch.

"Wow, how can 3rd party claim and be bad?"

claiming third party isn't just in the town interests, it's in his own as well - he's guaranteeing to avoid a night kill.

This shit is good max.

I'm finally seeing why an anti-town 3rd party would claim 3rd party.

Problem that we're having, is that we will probably be in the same situation tomorrow as today. I think there has been far too little discussion as to who is scum, people refuse to see other people's points, etc.

So, whiskers would make a decent deadline lynch but I'd hugely prefer if we caught scum today. I'll be rereading a bit and maybe show some new insights afterwards.

"Wow, after that one line, I

FINALLY

see how 3rd party can be bad and claim." Didn't take a whole hell of a lot of convincing. There's a lot of gravity in how you phrase this-- like you've been looking for the answer for a long time, and Maxous' dissertation really made you think, and reconsider things. No, dude. It was one line, in direct response to your question that you asked like, a post ago? OH THANK GOODNESS, FINALLY!
Also you're playing the good townie "yey lets lynch scum!" Yeah, great-- go ahead and do it. You reread yet?

Also

might be worthy of note, is that your previous post, you're all like, "damn, I'd like to lynch MAxous so much, because he's scum" and now you're going, "Aw yiss, Maxous knows what's up, better listen to him."

Holy crap is that a SK slip.

holy crap-- are you joking?

[Whiskers]

I don't have a kill.

There, you happy?

now

I'm "guaranteeing to avoid as nightkill."

@AJ: I was on Tiershift's wagon before pasche decided we should 1v1. I have no problem going back, although perhaps you should consider he's one of the few players who

hasn't

suggesting lynching me. (Because in the post where you say, "let's lynch Tier!" you also say, "voting whiskers is antitown!")

[Whiskers]

There, you happy?

now

I'm "guaranteeing to avoid as nightkill."

which would imply that beforehand, you felt that you were leaving yourself open to the possibility of drawing the nightkill.
see, the problem I have with this is - since you are third party - if you drew the nightkill, presumably

you would lose

you are expecting us to believe that you are playing detrimental to your independent win condition and helping us out because we are sucking and mislynching.
I don't think so. If I was third party in your position, I would chuck the town to the wolves if they weren't pulling their shit together.

Ah, ah, but

before,

I was in trouble for having removed myself from the nightkill-pool (which I had not).
Anyway, doesn't matter. I need to tell town from scum, too. It's not as simple as "survive."

That's a good point. I mostly wanted to kill Whiskers for being difficult.

Link me to one,

single motherfucking goddamned place

where I was "difficult". I dare you, bitch. Find me just

one.

Btw,

Pasch, if you don't track whiskers tonight I'll take it as a scumclaim.

Tier is still trying to get me to find other PRs, getting information that is more helpful to the scum team. He sees that Whiskers is working with town, and wants to eliminate the threat, because even if a third party role doesn't conflict with town, it certainly conflicts with scum.

Do we lynch Cheery or Tier today?

How the fuck is "track whiskers," him trying to get you to "find other PRs"? How is it "eliminating the threat"?

All that aside, let's lynch TierShift. He's been on my radar since the beginning.
. . .
TierShift is consistently accomplishing nothing. He claims that this is his town game, but if your town game is indistinguishable from a really bad scum play, then you need a lot of practice. Tier has far more often been a source of confusion than of clarity, and has been jumping on wagons that he even admits he didn't have much faith in. Playing like scum doesn't absolve you just because you hang a lampshade on it.

Sounds like a policy lynch.


Actually, let me go back and do all the ones where you say, "let's lynch Tier!" Lol. It'll be fun!

[Whiskers]

I have an ISO mainly full of attacks on your posts.

Awwwww yeah. Here we go.

I don't get why Dry Fit is voting me or why Tiershift now agrees with it. Apparently being kinda serious and kinda not serious during RVS is a scumtell now. Who knew? Dry Fit's vote looks silly, but TS' looks serious, which is puzzling because it is nonsensical. Plus the initial vote on DF before now sheeping looks like distancing.

Post 18, Dry-Fit votes you.
Post 20, TierShift votes Dry-Fit in RVS. Apparently voting in RVS is a scumtell now, eh Pasche? Who knew!
Post 49, Dry-Fit prompts TierShift to sheep him.
Post 69, TierShift does.
Here, I'm looking into it, now, why Tiershift voted.

Spoiler: Why TierShift voted Pasche

Unlike you, I do agree with bulba that there is possibly/probably (what's the word I'm looking for here?) is a scum on the wagon. Like, it's not a very strong clue, but it's something at a point in time where we have nothing else.

I feel like you only now ended RVS, but still, my vote on you was semi-serious. You were on the whiskers wagon, then in 14 you sounded a tad like towncred-fishing scum. Then 16, probably just your average RVS crap, but it doesn!'t feel completely right.

It's weird, I must be missing something. Didn't

you

say there must be scum on the Whiskers wagon?

Why do you think this and why is it any different from randomly picking a lynch pool?

Scum sheep. A lot. When a wagon builds very quickly without reason (even in rvs) there is often scum on it.

Oh, hey, it's just exactly what you said! ((in post 14. Or was that just "kinda serious kinda not serious"?))

...As you yourself say here:

And just as often not. What if Whiskers were scum? Would you still think that about this wagon?

I pointed out exactly this exact point, still on the first page, and yet you think that I'm the scummiest person on the wagon.

You know what, I like this post. Actually, I'm going to keep this one in here and copy another out into the Main ISO.

Here it is, again. Let's look at it in detail.

And just as often not. What if Whiskers were scum? Would you still think that about this wagon? I pointed out exactly this exact point, still on the first page, and yet you think that I'm the scummiest person on the wagon. But then again, I was referring to a wagon with an actual flip. When there would be reason to start analyzing it.

Ah, my mistake.

THIS

is what you were referring to with Post 14. That we should

actually

lynch me with an incredibly short Day 1, and then we'd be able to catch scum on the wagon. Right? And I know you meant

actually,

you said you were being "kinda serious" about it. Sounds good to me; trading town for scum on a 1:1 means town wins on Day 3. Only problem is...

Scum could just as easily have been avoiding it to keep their teammate from getting randomly lynched. And on such a quick wagon, the later votes are much more suspect, not the third one.

Did-- did you forget you were trying to defend yourself? You wanted a wagon with an actual flip, so you could analyze to narrow down scum, except that now you're saying that scum "could just as easily have been off the wagon," meaning that it wouldn't have made a damn difference anyway? Oh, ok. Good.

Wow, browsing through the thread, I'm not the first one to have realized this, either! (Psyche, post 88)

The other problem with this bit is the weird meta

((not

your

meta, game meta))

thing you do: "The third vote isn't suspect! I can't be scum, scum only votes late on the wagon!!" Really? ((Personally, I've found that right around the third vote is the

best

place to be on a wagon, as scum-- basically because you know the wagon is gaining traction, and because you

aren't

suspected for being a tail-end voter.))

The more you try to defend this vote on me, the worse it looks.

Lolololol.

Maybe we should string you up instead of Bulb. At this point, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see a scumteam of you, Zekrom, and Kenobi.

Peedit: And Kenobi sheeps his scumbuddy. And points out something that is not at all a scumtell to back it up.

That's 2/3 scum found. I wonder if Zek will pop in and make it a trifecta. Which one should we lynch first?

Ah, neat! Vote is still on Bulb, and 2/3 scum (Tier and Ken) found. Good, good.
Let's go to Bulbazak for an appropriate response:

Yes, threaten him.

And you know what? That's

neat.

Let me skip ahead a little bit:

TierShift . . . could be lumped in with Kenobi and Zekrom, as the three of them constitute the clearly inexperienced bloc of the game.

Why

are

you threatening the noobs? Why are you trying to back down? Tiershift is scumhunting. Actually, fuck trying to paraphrase; TierShift already said this in

his

response to your post:

Ok my vote goes from semi-serious to serious. I find your defensivity concerning.

You imply that I should not defend my vote on you, without giving actual reasons for it, you just say it looks scummy. That's AtF.

Then, you call me scum, with the guys that are playing their first game here. That's pretty damn low. I think these guys belong in the Newbie forum, but don't try to mix up newbieness with scumminess here.

If you think that I'm scum, vote me, not bulba.

BOOM. Man, I love how he even throws in that little bit at the end, which I read endearingly as, "Try me, bitch!" Of course, I already said that (above), but TierShift gets an "A" for effort.



Oh wait, wait, wait, I forgot something!

But then again, I was referring to a wagon with an actual flip. When there would be reason to start analyzing it.

Yeah, duh, scum don't hop onto quickwagons. Especially in RVS, when it's pretty much totally safe to do so.

Even if Whiskers were scum, such a quick wagon is suspicious. Scum bus, especially during RVS.

Oh that's right.... They do...

[Whiskers]

Alright, so, we already have one strike against you, Pasche: trying to push a quicklynch wagon through, on an assumption that, later, you yourself admit is groundless. "But," you (presumably) cry, "That was just RVS!" Ok, ok, don't worry. Whiskers, P.I., is on the fucking case, sleuthing out bullshit around every turn. ((Btw, isn't this, (post 86) an appeal to authority?))
Ok, right. Bullshit Sleuthing.

Oh shit-- I missed this whole thing from Pasche!

Ok my vote goes from semi-serious to serious. I find your defensivity concerning.

I'm not defending myself. I'm attacking you. I don't need defending because the only votes for me besides an RVS that never left is you and your scumbuddies. And you all voted for me, like a row of little ducklings.

No, you're right-- you didn't defend yourself. But TierShift is also right-- you got really defensive. The votes came and you threw a fit. You know. I already made a post about it.

You imply that I should not defend my vote on you, without giving actual reasons for it, you just say it looks scummy. That's AtF.

I imply nothing. I'm saying you're doing it badly. I'm saying that you're making so many bad assumptions to justify your predetermined conclusion that it's obvious that it's a ploy. You've said that your argument doesn't even hinge on Whiskers' alignment. Just that quick wagons sometimes have scum on them. I'd agree... if they actually went to a lynch. But you still offer nothing as to why THIS quick wagon had scum on it.

Where is Dry-Fit, in all of this? It was his idea in the first place, and TierShift was sheeping him. Remember?
Now, let me point out the bullshit:

"I'd agree... if they actually went to a lynch."

There it is~!

Why?

The chance for scum to be on a wagon

does not change

depending on whether or not the wagon goes through. Well, ok; technically it changes by the amount of the one more player that needs to be

on

to wagon to lynch. But if a wagon goes "town, town, scum, town, scum," and doesn't go to lynch, it's still just as

likely

to have scum on it, as the wagon that has "town, town, scum, town, scum, town" on it. See?

You

can

fucking analyze wagons that don't go to lynch-- especially quickwagons, which, as Tiershift already said in a post, are suspect. Do I really need to explain

that

to you?

You know what, fuck you mate. I'll go ahead and explain it to you.

When a wagon grows really, really, fast (see, like a racecar!), it's more suspicious because townies (that's the good guys ) are supposed to be more careful, whereas mafia (that's the bad guys >:C ) want to

lynch

the townies, and hope for the wagon to accidentally go through, either by scum quickhammer, noob quickhammer, or accidental quickhammer.

Btw, that's also the reason we fucking analyze

flipped

wagons, which you seem to think hold veritable tomes of knowledge about the scumteam (despite also saying that "that's just an assumption" and so they are useless); scum go onto the wagon to push the lynch through. So... yeah. You're full of shit.

Now, I think it had scum on it, too. But not simply because it was a quick wagon. I think it did because of how some of the votes were cast and then later treated. Specifically the votes cast by your two scumbuddies.

WOOO! Let's analyze this one! To do so, I'm going to have to go into...

The Futuuuurrreee~~~!!!!

Spoiler: In the Future

New players roll scum sometimes. TS needs to get off this whole "we can't lynch newbies" thing.

Go on.

Tell me more.

Lol OMGUS is a noob-town tell when it's emotional and angry.

Ah, I see. Do continue.

Lol OMGUS is a noob-scum tell because all playstyles are the same and also semantic bullshit.

Yes, yes, that's a good point.
Any parting words?

An important thing to understand, TierShift, is not just to see newb tells, but to know which ones are town and which ones are scum.

VOTE: Zekrom

Mm, mm, yes. Truly, words to live by.

...wait, why didn't you talk about "how some of the votes were cast and then later treated"...

on the Whiskers wagon, which was what you specifically referenced??

Wouldn't the thing you're using as [The reason they are scum] be a great way to show us (Tiershift, particularly, because for some reason, you're into showing scum* why their scumbuddies are scum*) that they

are

scum?

Then, you call me scum, with the guys that are playing their first game here. That's pretty damn low. I think these guys belong in the Newbie forum, but don't try to mix up newbieness with scumminess here.

If this is their first game, tough on them. They should be in Newbie games instead. Tell me, why do you think new players can't roll scum? They'll look like newb scum then, rather than newb town. Your newb scum scumbuddies look like newb scum.

Since I've been to the future, I've already dealt with this. Having seen the outcome yourself, Pasche... are you prepared to eat your words?

Whiskers' comments about this are, as expected, spot on. I'm glad you finally make it, Whiskers. I missed you.

Oh, go on, you sycophant, you. <3

[Whiskers]

So last episode, we went over ... ah fuck, I don't even remember how I was going to put it, it's 3:34 AM and I have school in the morning.
Sigh.

The next several posts have more bullshit, but nothing substantial-- and by that, I don't mean to say that Pasche's posts have ever been particularly substantial here, no, instead I'm saying that the attacks aren't worth commenting on. If you're interested, read 147, 151, and 170. Post 219 has a little bit more kissing my ass, but not enough to warrant an ointment.

An now, I will quote every single time Pasche mentions Tiershift (up until the next point I want to make)

Spoiler: And Then Pasche Thought TierShift Was Scum

It also really feels like Tier is trying to protect Zek. No part of me would be surprised to see them on a scumteam together.

. . .

-Gets the Rope-
TierShift
Zekrom

I think Tiershift is my top choice right now. I would very much like to hear people weigh in on that.

Unvote

VOTE: TierShift

I think a lynch would improve the quality of this game. Discussion has been stale and taking another 10 days is gonna give us nothing but apathy.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: cxinlee

PLEASE CAN WE KILL THIS!?!?!

Tiershift and Zek are still my top scumreads. I'm cool to lynch Zek today, as he has all but claimed scum, but I really feel like a lot of players have gone under the radar.

VOTE: Tiershift

I don't know Cx's alignment, but I feel a lot more sure of Tiershift and Zek.

. . .

But Tiershift, Tiershift doesn't have that excuse either way. He's been consistently against progress the whole day, has relied on crap arguments, and generally gives reads that look strategic rather than genuine.

Meanwhile, I should have held out for a Tiershift lynch yesterday, and I want one now.

VOTE: Tiershift

AJ, there are literally 3 sentences in that post of why you think Emp is scum, and most of them revolve around Emp thinking that Tiershift is scum. Tiershift is my top scumread. So... got any better reasons?

. . .

My problem with Emp is that I think he and Bulba are scum for exactly the same reasons, but as I said above, I think they are the same alignment. If I'm wrong about Tiershift, then I will definitely want to string one or both of them up.

. . .

But I'm certainly less sure of this than of Tiershift being scum.

I'd far prefer to lynch Tiershift than Emp,

Oh, and I "bring attention back to Emp and Bulba" after nobody else wants to lynch Tiershift and instead are all voting for Empking,

. . .

Bulba, the meat of what post? And what questions? 449? It contained exactly one question, and that question was answered in the post you were quoting. The PoE I was doing was trying to figure out if Tiershift as your third scumpartner made sense. It didn't terribly, but as I've said all along, I think that you and Emp are the same alignment more than specifically scum or town.

. . .

And I'd rather lynch Tiershift anyway,

Also, that's not at all why I attacked Tiershift. I attacked him for his shallow reasoning and his unfounded votes. I attacked him for having shit ideas and not helping town find scum. I attacked him for continual anti-town posts. And now he's relying on misreps to attack me.

So, Whiskers, how about we lynch Tiershift instead?

Yeah, that's some. 11 just through here.

Never say "must be" without a flip.

Oh, you mean like here?

Unlike you, I do agree with bulba that there is possibly/probably (what's the word I'm looking for here?) is a scum on the wagon. Like, it's not a very strong clue, but it's something at a point in time where we have nothing else.

Actually-- wait, wait, let me look at that.

Never say "must be" without a flip.

Also, that's not at all why I attacked Tiershift. I attacked him for his shallow reasoning and his unfounded votes.

What the fuck do you actually

want,

man?

Also, as far as post 469 goes, I'm pretty sure he not only hasn't been "not helping the town find scum," but has in fact not had "continual anti-town posts." Actually, I'm pretty sure "continual anti-town posts" is a load of bullshit. Can you fucking back that shit up, bro? I don't actually think you can, but I'm willing to evaluate, if you're willing to try. If you're not willing to try, I'll assume that you simply can't.


And actually, there's something else I need to point out:
In post 463, Pasche gets all offended that I called him out for using exaggerated phrasing.
So... Does anybody remember this post?

He said that the vote . . . "seems to be a scum-like thing to do at this point in the game" which is an extremely careful thing to say.

[Whiskers]

Oh right, sorry. I forgot to make a point:

Pasch says he gets mislynched when he uses a "more-reserved fashion." So, he instead mislynches Zekrom for speaking in a "more reserved fashion."

Now, I can't actually attack him for scum on this, as I had a similar thing in one of my first games (something about "I get mislynched when I do this. ____ is doing that same thing I get mislynched for, so I am voting for him. Why do I think it's a scumtell, if I only do it as town and not scum? Well, I assume the players mislynching me have

some

reason for thinking I'm scum...").

But I can call him a big stupid hypocrite.

"You're a big stupid hypocrite."

Also, it's Now 4:30 in the morning. If I go to sleep

now

, I can still get four hours or so before I have to get up and go to uni...

Uh whiskers, do you actually think pasch is scum, or are you just trying to save your hide?

I still wonder if there is any incentive for you to try and make town win the game.

Just for the record, do you give
a shit?
Or, why are you even asking?

I'm pretty sure attacking this guy wouldn't fucking "save my hide." Especially since what I've turned up-- rampant hypocrisy, Argument from Repetition, and a handful of contradictions-- is wholly underwhelming as a case for scum.

[Whiskers]

So Pasche, my mission for you, is for you to tell me how my wagon, in the wee hours of Day 1, something something, as per this post;

Now, I think it had scum on it, too. But not simply because it was a quick wagon. I think it did because of how some of the votes were cast and then later treated.

I want you to specifcally tell me what about their votes made Teirsihdt, Zejkrin, and Kansubi, scum.

Because you said you could, and then proceeded to do it with a

different

post. what the fuck.

[Whiskers]

3. Lynching people who are acting like scum is not a policy lynch. You know this. Stop lying.

I stopped reading a little bit after here-- somewhere in the middle of point 4. Don't worry, I'll go back, but,

"TierShift is consistently accomplishing nothing. He claims that this is his town game, but if your town game is indistinguishable from a really bad scum play, then you need a lot of practice. Tier has far more often been a source of confusion than of clarity, and has been jumping on wagons that he even admits he didn't have much faith in. Playing like scum doesn't absolve you just because you hang a lampshade on it."

^Acting like scum?

Then,

Nice tantrum, Whiskers. There's very little truth in it, but it's got all kinds of anger. It's cute, though. You just keep attributing motivations to me that I don't really have. My actions aren't deceptive or malicious, but if you proclaim that I'm only doing them because I'm deceptive and malicious, it must make sense!

You tell me I give you motivations you don't have, that you're not malicious, etc-- and then go and do the same to TS. Yes?

2. Tiershift has been trying to get me to track people and reveal them "in order to clear myself" all day. He's said nothing about finding scum by tracking them, just finding powers. The only people who can find out that someone has powers and not care what their alignment is are scum. Tier's intent is not to find scum, it's for me to reveal that people have powers.

Btw, iirc, he wasn't "saying nothing about finding scum by tracking them." In fact, he was saying that, "if you track somebody, they must be scum." And you might be right, then, that that means he "doesn't care what their alignment is" and "he must be scum," but those things are only true if he is scum, not if he's town.

Finally,

1. You're difficult because you're holding out information. You're refusing to help us win and then getting angry when we want to punish you for it. You're a liability.

Does having revealed the information to you in the first place count as "holding out information?"
I'm not fullclaiming because it would be detrimental to me, and I have an interest in myself winning this game. It would also be beneficial to

you

, for me to keep much of my role info to myself-- more, in fact, than I've already told you. Your poking has actually hurt town, jsyk.
I'm not "refusing to help you win," so fuck you, right up the ass. You complain about me "Attributing motivations that you don't have," You're attributing actions that you've made up. You have trouble with being called deceptive and malicious? You can't even make a

case

for me being deceptive and malicious, going out of my way to provide you with extra info.

Doesn't stop you though, does it?

Who is scum, Pasche? Ok, right, Tiershift, nevermind him. Who

else

is scum? Who is scum

with

Tiershift?

And, I'm not being a douche here, either: if you're that certain that TS is scum, why haven't you been treating him as flipped, looking for his scumbuddies?

[Whiskers]

But even if you did, it's not a compelling case.

As I already fucking said.


...nevermind, I'm not

actually

going to read the rest of your post. It's more condescending bullshit and I am simply, plainly, not in the mood for it.

[Whiskers]

Also, pasche, you didn't answer my question. Who are TS's partners?

[Whiskers]

Also, pasche, you didn't answer my question. Who are TS's partners?

I've already told you that I don't speculate on connections without a flip. If you want to ask who else I think is scum, that's different, but those will be for independent reasons unrelated to Tiershift. You don't seem to have any scum suspects at all. You're just mad at me for pushing you.

Kenobi, explain this "vibe". Ask me some questions. Follow something besides an unexplainable gut feeling. Give me the opportunity to convince you to vote for an actual scum instead of me.

Yeah, but that's fucking stupid. You have no flip, but you are 100% that TS is going to flip scum. So, when he does, who do you go after next? If you have a scumspect that you're going to be fucking stupid about and tunnel on weak shit since Day 1, then you may as well go ahead and start speculating scumbuddies.

Clearly, you can't

push

them on grounds of being the scumbuddies of an unflipped player-- but you can speculate. Since you've been more interested in pushing TS from repetition (although, that's not entirely true; when a new, relevant argument presented itself, you grabbed onto it-- there just was a long period where there was no relevant argument), and we're probably going in that direction anyway-- meaning you don't need to "push" him anymore-- come and speculate with me. Assuming TierShift scum, which you are, you certainly are, you can't argue with me that you're not, who do you have as his scumbuddies? Any suspects?

[Whiskers]

cx not-posting is weird.
bulbazak not-posting is weird.

standing by to drop hammer.

[Whiskers]

Wait, wait, wait.

N1, masons claim to have a bulletproof, and that "something hit the vest". But then there was a Nightkill.
N2, there is no kill.

Does it explicitly say "bulletproof," or is that your interpretation of it? Or what? With a delayed kill-- the poisoner... ok, no, that doesn't actually make a "delayed bulletproof" more likely. But since there

was

a nightkill when you got "hit" and there

wasn't

one the night after, it makes me wonder.

Maybe you used Substitute?

[Whiskers]

More than that, it's a really weak claim. Watcher is a weakish role to begin with, and now you've only got one shot of it? Sorry mate, you're getting lynched today.


So in the meantime, does anybody want to entertain the possibility that, if TS flips town, the much-stronger, unlimited-shot role that Pasche claims might be a fakeclaim, instead?

Pasche and Dry-Fit are the two best candidates to die tonight IMO, and both of them should out their reads before the day is over.

Intent to hammer.

[Whiskers]

God damn it, I never get to hammer.

[Whiskers]

So in the meantime, does anybody want to entertain the possibility that, if TS flips town, the much-stronger, unlimited-shot role that Pasche claims might be a fakeclaim, instead?

Pretty dangerous to fakeclaim with actual results. I would have needed an actual way to know that Dashie hadn't poisoned someone. Unless I really am a tracker, I really couldn't know for sure. If someone had died last night from Dashie's poison, which I wouldn't have known for certain if anyone was poisoned, then I would be toast.

You really think I would put out that much information in a situation where I had no need at all to claim?

Suppose you are fakeclaiming mafia that didn't target the Masons. Town, Scum, and 3rd-Party killing roles? Seems unlikely. You would assume it was Rainbow Dash that did it.

It seems like bit of a stretch, but nobody plays completely logically. So what if you're playing a dangerous game? Claiming tracker has made a couple of people put you into conftown piles, and that makes it aaaaall worth it.

[Whiskers]

Also,

I really don't think Bulb is scum. Cheery might be. Whiskers is a toss up. Cx is lurking like a pro and I hate lurker lynches, but he'll ratchet up to the top of a PoE list when we get there. My read on Kenobi keeps flip flopping. So, I think scum is in (Tiershift, Cheery, Whiskers, Cx, and Kenobi).

There is one, clear, obvious choice of who to track here. I hope you can make that decision correctly.

[Whiskers]

I watched pasch and aj was the only one to go there.

My role is apparent to all.

Eh need to think before I vote.

Why immediately go for Aj? I'd like to see reasons before a vote, especially at this stage in the game.

Have you not read the end of day 2? Or his post?

Um, what?

I'm not understanding any of this: aj was the only one to go

where

? wtf are you talking about? Your openin post today sounds like you tracked aj, btw, and what is that about?

Your role ...is apparent to all? What? I'm not so fucking sure, considering last I recall, you've not talked about you or your role at

all

this game. Why is your role apparent? And if you're willing to divulge,

what

is it?

What about Day 2, or his post? What's going on?

[Whiskers]

Guys do you think AJ can be SK who shot pasch? Just doesn't make sense to me.

Assuming you're watcher, whiskers is sk and aj is mafia

I'm still having a non-SK feel from whiskers.

BTW, this is a mafia conversation. These two players are mafia, I'm banking on it.

[Whiskers]

As I've stated multiple times, Whiskers will be playing to her wincon when voting, which means that she will correctly vote scum. Cxin says that following Whiskers would result in an auto loss for town, which it has been shown is false. He's relying on an Appeal to Fear to try to steer others from the correct course of action and toward acting hastily, which would likely result in a mislynch and a town loss. There is no town motivation for that, only scum. Ergo, Cxin is scum, along with whoever of Tier/Aj is scum.

Oh, cool, I even have support.

Yeah, die.

Vote: Tiershift

It's kind of nice having the backup mod step in. After that bullshit nolynch due to rules that "make players pay attention more" I was itching for day to start so I could make a big fucking scene and publicly denounce Espy. But instead, we have a backup mod, which means the game continues. It's nice.

[Whiskers]

Unvote

Just finished reading the, like, last two posts.

[Whiskers]

So here's my question:
Does the lynch go to Bulbazak, or cx?

cx is the obvious choice, but then, Bulbazak is so manipulative. I was going to mention the kill list, but it's pretty universally good-- RainbowDash and Pasche. I could make the argument that only a competent player (say, Bulba or Cheery, not sure about the rest of 'em) would make those kills. But it'd be a really, really weak argument.


I'm also uncomfortable with the fact that Dry-Fit has done nothing to warrant a nightkill, with his "conf-town" status. He's conf-town. He should have been murdered ages ago. He's not posting. He's not doing

anything

. It's worrying me.

[Whiskers]

So you're a claimed anti-town (scum) role, which means that we were right about you yesterday when we wagoned you. Why does that automatically mean that scum were pushing you, especially when it shows that we were right in pushing you? Your logic does not compute.

We really need to lynch between Tier/Cxin/Whiskers today in order to hit scum. I really doubt that there are 2 3rd party roles in this game, following Occam's Razor, and as such, one of Tier/Whiskers is mafia. I'm personally leaning Tier, since his interactions with Cxin, and Cxin's defence of Tier look like team interactions. It also doesn't make sense that Tier as SK would 1v1 somebody in Mylo, since that would mean that if he was wrong, he'd automatically lose. However, it's perfect to claim a false guilty as mafia, since a lynch would end in a win. However, since it is Mylo, I feel it is not best to lynch between Tier and Whiskers today. Instead, we should lynch Cxin and hope that the issue sorts itself out during the night via crosskills.

Vote Cxinlee

Whiskers, listen to your heart.

Actually, I like this. I'm only worried about if Tiershift actually

is

an SK, in which case he and CX aren't partners (obviously). But, why the "team interaction earlier?"

Actually, to their credit, if they were both mafia, why would they be doing that "team interaction" in the first place? They just came from a long Night, presumably with nighttalk open. They wouldn't need to talk about what roles they were, or what roles the thought

Whiskers

was, in the thread-- they would have had plenty of time to hammer it out.

Tiershift, who did you kill, and why? I'm assuming I know, (and that maybe you've even answered this directly, already, and I just missed it,) but I want to make sure I get it.

[Whiskers]

Btw, Bulbazak, how would TierSK "automatically lose" if he 1v1'd somebody and "was wrong"? Doesn't an SK want to lynch town today, avoid crosskills, and coast to endgame with the mafia?

[Whiskers]

I'm also uncomfortable with the fact that Dry-Fit has done nothing to warrant a nightkill, with his "conf-town" status. He's conf-town. He should have been murdered ages ago. He's not posting. He's not doing anything. It's worrying me

How's it worrying? Mostly just plainly annoying.

Because the only thing we have to go on is his own word, that he's "conftown." That, and the reputation of the Mason role of usually coming in groups.
...Eh, I guess I remember someone saying that he was kind defending Empking Day 1? Or something?

[Whiskers]

Btw, Bulbazak, how would TierSK "automatically lose" if he 1v1'd somebody and "was wrong"? Doesn't an SK want to lynch town today, avoid crosskills, and coast to endgame with the mafia?

You realize mafia will kill me if there's a town lynch right right

Why? Serial Killer, assumedly, can't win with town. It can, however, win with scum. In fact, if mislynch today, why wouldn't the scumteam come out during Twilight and claim, saying, "We'll shoot Townie X, you shoot Townie Y, and that's endgame!"?

Also, no, they won't. Firstly (and foremostly) we're not having a town lynch today.

[Whiskers]

Actually, to their credit, if they were both mafia, why would they be doing that "team interaction" in the first place? They just came from a long Night, presumably with nighttalk open. They wouldn't need to talk about what roles they were, or what roles the thought

Whiskers

was, in the thread-- they would have had plenty of time to hammer it out.

I think it was because something happened that they didn't expect: I suggested following the SK to sort out which one was scum. Notice that's when Cxin first piped up and tried to discredit the idea. As for you, you're either mafia or SK, so it wouldn't take much of a leap to figure you out based on their roles and the night actions.

Fair enough. So Tiershift jumping on that claim, is damage control-- even if we go with your plan, now we have to choose between SK claims, and might even end up following him. That's the idea, at least.

Btw, Bulbazak, how would TierSK "automatically lose" if he 1v1'd somebody and "was wrong"? Doesn't an SK want to lynch town today, avoid crosskills, and coast to endgame with the mafia?

The typical scum wincon is making up at least 50% of the town. In that case, if town was lynched today, and mafia were not killed tonight, the game would end in a mafia win, since they would make up 50% of the town. In order to have a chance at winning, the SK would have to hit mafia tonight and avoid getting killed if town was lynched. 1v1ing someone in Mylo is a huge risk for a SK, since he's not only putting himself on the line, but if he's wrong, he's just made his job harder. However, it's not that huge of a risk for mafia.

But, uh... why not

not

hit mafia tonight?
Town is lynched
Mafia town kill
SK town kill
Mafia & Win!!

??

Also, in the response to the first quote here-- that's evidence of Tiershift 1/1ing again, isn't it, just with me this time. And he tries to discredit me for not doing the same thing to him in this next quote:

Yo bulbie 1040 should make it pretty clear whiskers believes me to be the SK

and doesn't CC me.

Hello, I'm Whiskers and

go back to EpicMafia you scrub.

((that was @ TS, ofc))

[Whiskers]

If Tiershift flips sk, and there are 3 mafia left, won't we lose?

Stop acting town, it's shaking my confidence.

[Whiskers]

Guys, I'm not smart, I'm dumb.
I literally can not figure this shit out on my own.
Fuck.

I'm up for a CX lynch. Let me know when it goes through.
I'm also open to discussing other things-- but as far as lynch candidates go, I do like CX.

[Whiskers]

The only thing I needed to do yesterday was to survive the day and then

hit town at night so I couldn't be lynched today.

er, what?

[Whiskers]

aah, ok

well, luckily, we weren't planning on lynching you.

what do you feel about cx?

[Whiskers]

Good, good.

And cheerydog?

[Whiskers]

But if you were the SK, why didn't you suspect Whiskers of being Mafia yesterday, or even crosskill her during the night to prevent this very situation?

Uh, I

wanted

to reach this situation. Now I can't be lynched, otherwise I would very likely be lynched.

Also, implying I'm "Maybe Town". Nice job, bro. Your job, Tiershift, is to sit their silently and let us decide if this is you gambitting as scum to get a potential mislynch. You have nothing useful to add to this conversation as your own motives are clearly not for town.

I think you're mistaken here, I need to lynch scum here to have any shot at reaching my wincon.[/quote]
So, You wanted to reach mylo for yourself? You wanted to be in a situation where you

had

to lynch scum in order to win? Wouldn't it be easier to shoot scum, prolong the game, and not-claim?

I'm done discussing it now with bulb, whiskers, aj and cheery because I'm pretty certain at least 2 if not all scum are in there.

Uh, not

all

of us can be scum. If it were 4scum 1SK, I'm p sure the game would be over already.
Also, if you were to present a convincing argument, the scum in the listed group would have no choice but to back off-- or look really stupid and scummy.

@Cxinlee and kenobi:
If my reads are only slightly accurate, I know I'm talking to town players here. Feel free to laugh at this if scum.

You are still alive and it's probably because you are new here and are easily swayed by the experienced scum. They are manipulating you like shit into voting me, but I'm asking you to disregard all the flawed logic in the above posts by bulb&co and just come to the conclusion on if I need a scum lynch or not yourself. I'll answer any questions you have.
And when you're done with that, please vote bulba.

Harsh. Pointing out the flawed logic might be a thing, instead of just declaring that it is.
(Also, on what grounds should they vote Bulba? I haven't seen an argument against him, was he a suspect of yours?)

Unvote

Vote: Tiershift

Sorry Bulba. The way I see it, if we lynch CX and we're wrong, then game is over, mafia won. If we lynch TS and we're wrong, then game is over, mafia won-- but at least we lynched TS. I'm banking on the idea that they're scum together, so if one of them flips not-scum, I'd just go ahead and assume that neither is.

[Whiskers]

Actually,

Unvote
Vote: Cxinlee

.

[Whiskers]

Well, she's pretending not to be a SK since she's not voting me nor explicitly counterclaiming me.

I'm playing, what we scummers like to call, "carefully."

So, can I interest you in compromising and lynching Cx? The other players want to lynch

you

, but it's in your best interests not to be lynched. Correct? Same here, but I'm in a safer place, because I have at least Bulbazak and Cheerydog backing me up-- or so it appears.

Or, let me put it this way: if you won't compromise on Cx, we

will

lynch you. You are at L-2 with Bulbazak certain you're scum and Whiskers slightly-hesitant to quicklynch you.

The arguements against your claim are sound: playing recklessly for an SK (a la 1v1'ing, first with Bulba, I think? Then with me), trying to frame Aj the Epic (a player you then

didn't

go after) for a kill you claim to have made,

Actually, I don't know why I'm trying to convince

you

.

Kenobi

, you're "easily manipulated," right? Come join the Cx wagon, it's the safest lynch considering we're in MyLo. Also, if you're looking for something meatier than what Bulbazak has fed us, chew on cx's continued lurking, even harder now than in previous Day phases, trying to lay low while now under fire, not trying to push Tiershift's or even Whiskers' lynch, or to defend himself; only to survive.

Mafia.

[Whiskers]

You're not going to even address the case on you? You're just going to call yourself possible town, say the wagon is unwarranted, and then slink off?

It is consistent with how he was wagoned day 1, except no threat of a self-hammer yet.

Yeah, and do we remember how that was scummy as fuck?

Cx, one part of the case on you is

considering whiskers is sk /mafia, tier is claimed sk

Why'd you put Whiskers as SK/Mafia, but not Tier?

[/quote]
and

and I'm (possible) town

You're not going to even address the case on you? You're just going to call yourself possible town, say the wagon is unwarranted, and then slink off?

<< This part is apparently consistent with your play so far-- according to yourself, ("I've been lurking all game!") and Cheery Dog in her most-recent post.


The other bit is that you've been really weirdly defending TierShift, despite there being a case on him. Or, not really defending him, just sort of acting like he's town-- also, like he must be telling the truth.

Plus, attacks (not really attacks, just kind of assumptions that are apparent to you somehow but you haven't explained) on other people like, say, me, without a substantial base. If you're going to attack me, attack me-- calling me "SK/mafia" is scummy. It might not be, except that Tiershift, who was assumed to be mafia, is still probably mafia, has been playing like mafia, but just now claimed SK, gets your unwavering trust. That's abnormal to me.

[Whiskers]

Why has there been no posts today?

Tiershift, are we lynching Cx, or you?

[Whiskers]

Sorry, had calc exam...

Whiskers, are you still not able to give anything on your role? This is starting to annoy me, and I'd really like to know anything you can say on it before continuing. I've asked you multiple times, I'm not sure if you're completely missing this or ignoring me.

Not that I'm not able, just that I'm not going to. Or, not yet.

That's not the answer you want, so I'm ignoring you.

So Whiskers I asked you how you know this is lylo and I kind of expect an answer.

Pretty sure cx is actually town here.

You asked me how I know it is

my

lo, I believe, and the answer is that I don't; I'm working from assumed info. With 8 players left, if we assume 4 of them are non-town, with one lynch and two kills, that makes it Mislynch and Lose. Right?

Yo I think cx is town and I'd rather lynch scum here since otherwise I

have

to shoot scum at night.

I

will

shoot whiskers at night and we lose if she is some sort of town/some sort of third party.

If we lynch whiskers today and she turns out to be non-scum, it at least doesn't end the game,

I'll have another shot to shoot scum at night. Plus, if there's a scum doctor, the game is over after a cx lynch.

How do you figure this? Don't we have to both lynch scum,

and

you shoot scum?

Wait, I should bold more:

Plus, if there's a scum doctor, the game is over after a cx lynch.

How do you figure

this

!? Fucking wild assumptions.

Anyway,

Vote: Tiershift.

[Whiskers]

Tiershift, Red, the Serial Killer,

was lynched day four.

Dry-Fit, Rocket Admin Mason,

was endgamed night four.

cxinlee, Rocket Grunt,

was endgamed night four.

Kenobi, Rocket Grunt,

was endgamed night four.

Whiskers, Rocket grunt,

was endgamed night four.

The scum team of

Bulbazak, Dojo Master Kiyo, Mafia Traitor
AJ the Epic, Gym Leader Sabrina, Mafia Goon
Cheery Dog, Officer Jenny, Mafia Rolecop

have fulfilled their win condition and won Silph Co Reverse Mafia!

*shrug*

[Whiskers]

My fake role was that I had to target players and predict that they would be nightkilled. Pokemon Trainer-flavoured, or exactly what TS was.

Btw, TS, fuck you.

I'm quite mad at whiskers here, she knew I was a SK but went on to lose it for town.

Anyway, my reads were correct if that counts for something

I didn't know you were an SK, I only knew that you claimed SK. Next time, don't act so scummy.

If I

didn't

"go on to lose it for town" (which, by the way, fuck you, asshole, I was

the

townie still giving a thought to the game), and said, "oh, hey, I'm

not

3rd party, was bluffing the whole time", then

I

would have been lynched, which would have resulted in the

same

fucking game over. So, fuck you. I lynched the person who was not confirmed-town to me: you.


Also, fuck you. Your reads may have been "correct" but you didn't say anything-- did you even mention a Cheery read? Worse than that, you convinced nobody of your reads, so I don't care if you were 100% correct from the very fucking beginning, you were

useless

in lynching scum, so it counts for

nothing

.

Oh, and furthermore? Fuck you, you lying sack of scum. Your reads included Whiskers scum; you might want to re-evaluate your definition of "correct reads".



Actually, hell, while I'm at it,

I'm mad at myself for playing such a shitty game.

I was so naive, I lurked 90% of the game, and when I had doubts about ajtheepic, I kept quiet.

Meh, shoudve been more aggressive at the last day as well.

You and the rest of the endgamed townies. On one hand, I can't blame Dry-Fit for being fucking bored this last Day-- he's right, TS should have been lynched the day before, and Esp. is a dick for including that in his ruleset-- but you and dry not-posting and not-scumhunting is really bullshit (although where Dry posted less and less, you seem to have posted more as the game progressed, so good job, CX). Gonna give Kenobi some of this too: even though he's newish, he clearly has a good grasp of the game, so where was he, Especially at endgame?

I'll make a little footnote here. I'm not mad that I lost. I'm a little annoyed that, the townies basically fell into lurking. I'm quite a bit annoyed that, time and time again, confirmed-town players will just walk away from a game and do fucking nothing useful. I'm mad, though, that TS is going to, even after the game is over, point at me and say, "A

ha!

We lost because of

you!!"

No, man. Fuck you.

[Whiskers]

^Some of this may not be true.