Mini 1536 - Silph Co. Reverse Mafia (Game Over)

[Cheery Dog]

Reading up when I'm not totally jetlagged.

[Cheery Dog]

You're right.
UNVOTE: psyche
Someone pick me a wagon I can join.

Why say this after unvoting twice in quick succession on perfectly acceptable wagons for that stage of the game? If it was that you were the only vote on said wagons you dropped off, then wouldn't the choice have been an easy join the wagon that already had multiple votes?

I felt that both posts stemmed from the same reasoning. RBD's statement is the typical level of RVS BS I'd expect. Players will make statements like that all the time. That doesn't necessarily mean there's anything to them, something that Psyche and Empking should know. Each took a different tactic in regards to that statement, but they both stem from the larger issue that they commented on a non-statement and tried to fish based off of it. Emp took a more direct approach, and Psych went with the suspicious route. At least 1 of them is likely to be scum. Looking at that, why single Psyche out, yet leave Empking be?

Was this just an attempt to have someone else join you on the empking wagon or were you suspicious of both of them yourself? You went to a lot of effort to identify both as perpetrators of what Maxous was voting my slot for at the start. In fact I'm not even sure your reasoning for your empking read has developed much more than what it existed as back in this stage.

Even if Whiskers were scum, such a quick wagon is suspicious. Scum bus, especially during RVS.

A quickwagon during rvs that didn't even reach tipping point? It's still just random guessing at that stage regardless of whether or not you think you can somehow pull a wagon analysis on something with no flips. Could I move this statement into an assumption that all wagons with 3 or more people must contain a scum?

Whiskers read on Ken is the same as mine, which is a good town-sign.

Town sign for who? Also what makes it good?

I actually did, but the main purpose of my vote was to pressure him to contribute.

I don't always vote who I think is the most scummy (can quote examples on request), you're assumption that "all votes should be place on scum" is simply not true.

Votes should be placed on people you are happy to see dead at the end of the day, generally this should be scum, no?

Beautifully done job of contradicting yourself in your own post for the sake of attempting to discredit me. You so easily lied here, prove to me that you haven't been lying this whole game.

We have another case of empking on Balb here I think. I guess it's best to ignore it as well though.

I think Tiershift is my top choice right now. I would very much like to hear people weigh in on that.

You really should weight in on your own scumreads with something useful before expecting others do to it. All I can remember about you suspecting Tier is that you thought that he was buddying up/protecting Zekrom.

@Zekrom: Forgetting to bold something makes me scummy? O.o I... wut. My vote is staying on you for the time being, because that is either the stupidest or the scummiest thing I've ever seen. Sorry.

Obviously stupidest regardless of zekrom's alignment, but this statement suggests that scum can't be stupid? The post comes across like you may actually have known Zekrom's alignment, with apologising at the end as he clearly was just stupid with that.

Ill get on the comp, and make my last words, etc. and self hammer.

I think my lynch will give plenty on info so I wouldn't mind it anymore I guess

You've already claimed you know your alignment, you believe your flip would give information. Why should that therefore involve your actual lynch?
If the information existing to you is clear to you, then you should be able to tell us what said information is - so let's pretend you actually did go through with your selfhammer, what information have we gained from your flip at the start of day 2?

@Psych - Cxi is town because of that post, but because he thought he was at L-1. If he is scum he is faking knowing that which I doubt he would have the presence of mind to do as scum.

The way in which the post was written looked like it came up without reading the whole of the previous page and just went into panic post mode at seeing someone ask for the claim. The fact it didn't actually contain a claim means something here.

I(via the fact that you can't have eight scum...)

That's a good point. Actually, how many scum ARE there?

I do believe we've just received a pseudo confirmed new town.

Can someone who isn't Bulba and didn't spend all of day 1 arguing with Empking over what amounted to nothing weigh in on Emp and someone who isn't Emp weigh in on Bulba? I feel like both of them spent the whole of day 1 arguing and voting each other without giving any reasons why the rest of us would agree, which is a great distancing tactic. I think that if one of them is scum, they probably both are.

This sounds much like how you just connected people yesterday based on one thing.

Meanwhile, I should have held out for a Tiershift lynch yesterday, and I want one now.

I quoted something earlier in this post about my thoughts on your tiershift read, but can you give a recap of why we should be lynching him?

. And contrary to how much he falsely insists the opposite, Bulb never went out on a limb on anyone else. He'll poke a few people with a stick, but always went right back to Emp. And the most recent "lining up lynches" line. I've only ever seen town accused of that, because only town is actually trying to find links between people.

That second sentence doesn't sound much like scum on scum to me.
What alignments have you seen from the people using the "lining up lynches" line?

That's what I've got atm. I definitely think that emp is scummy, but I'm not going to push for him to get lynched, at least not yet. I got the answers (or lack thereof) out of him that I was after to confirm my suspicions.

Emp, you all know my feelings on, and I definitely think he's scum. The defensive scumteaming of anyone who dares call him out just lends credence, and not the clearwater revival kind.

Why don't you want to push your highest scumread? and then do continue pushing him anyway?

I also find it kind of strange that most people are townreading me this game, but whatevs.

I think they've just been putting aside all the people not posting that much, I had no read on you until I read this line, and the fact you posting it makes me think you're town.

I apologize for derailing things when I'm the subject of discussion, but let's be honest, I'm a terrible wagon.

In what way are you a terrible wagon?

Nevermind, he's gone.

Him going V/LA doesn't make your question any less valid. If you want to ask something, you need to still be expecting a reply regardless of how long it may end up taking.

That's cool we'll just lynch you next when empking flips town.

If you believe that makes cx worthy of being lynched, why are you not pushing for that lynch instead of empking today?

cool.

Also, tiershift just went into my town pool

How did he get there? Should I get a lifering?

Reading up when I'm not totally jetlagged.

Oh, cool!

Isn't it strange, we never fight like cats & dogs?

Would you like to? I'm sure it can be arranged.

VOTE: Paschendale

[Cheery Dog]

Cheerydog can you summarise your reads?

Not until I'm managed some interaction between everyone so I can firm up my own opinion.

Votes should be placed on people you are happy to see dead at the end of the day, generally this should be scum, no?

Nah. There are two types of votes: votes that have intention to lynch, and those that have no intention of lynching. Pressure votes fall under the second category.

This so called "second category" doesn't exist in my opinion. (simply because noone ever uses them properly, I simply take them as normal votes)

You've already claimed you know your alignment, you believe your flip would give information. Why should that therefore involve your actual lynch?
If the information existing to you is clear to you, then you should be able to tell us what said information is - so let's pretend you actually did go through with your selfhammer, what information have we gained from your flip at the start of day 2?

When someone gets lynched, does he not give out a info?

Eg. I can look at the wagon to see if anyone was hopping on if for weak reasons.

Yes, and I'm trying to work out what that information is that we would have "gained" from it, the content we would be looking at is already there, we shouldn't need to lynch someone to have it become valid.

Let's continue with getting this information out of needing a lynch to be found, your wagon at it's peak had these votes Maxous, Aj The Epic, Rainbowdash, Pashendale, Tiershift, Whiskers. Which of these are the weak votes we would have found on seeing your flip?

The way in which the post was written looked like it came up without reading the whole of the previous page and just went into panic post mode at seeing someone ask for the claim. The fact it didn't actually contain a claim means something here.

Im confused here.

I was already panicking, being at L-2. I don't understand why someone asking for a claim would drive me insane, either.

And iirc whiskers' post for the claim was the previous page, and yet you are implying I didn't read the previous page. Then you imply I saw the request for a claim. Contradiction?

I'm suggesting you posted it after seeing whisker's post on the previous page without reading the rest of the thread.

How did he get there? Should I get a lifering?

He has a town feel. Don't ask why.

Ok, it can go in the ignore bin.

[Cheery Dog]

Pasch's I don't really like.

Whiskers as well.

There wasn't any specific information I was thinking of when made that post. I simply thought that there was a lot of discussion on me, thus there were bound to be clues along there.

Lets say I'm voting someone to fish for a reaction. Is it necessary that I want him lynched? No, this falls under the second category, correct?

Okay, that part is cleared up. Why exactly do you think I would freak out if someone asked me to claim?

Well if you can't find them now, what chances would the rest of us have? Point being lynches for what you would believe would only be for information gain, are just killing off town players.

Second category still doesn't exist in my opinion.

@Psych - Cxi is town because of that post, but because he thought he was at L-1. If he is scum he is faking knowing that which I doubt he would have the presence of mind to do as scum.

The way in which the post was written looked like it came up without reading the whole of the previous page and just went into panic post mode at seeing someone ask for the claim.

The fact it didn't actually contain a claim means something here.

it means what?

Something, the exact something isn't completely clear and has no business actually being said at this point in time.

[Cheery Dog]

My theory has to do with cxlinee being town though, that's all the information that should be said about it.

[Cheery Dog]

^
ftr, posts like this are why Tier is probably town.
No fear to re-evaluate and change his vote on the drop of a hat to secure a lynch he wants regardless of how it might make him look to others. He done it a lot Day 1.

But what lynches has he actually wanted?

[Cheery Dog]

But what lynches has he actually wanted?

uhh, cx + emp in day 1 and emp + pasch in day 2...why are you asking me this?

i'm mostly talking about the likes of #317, #319, #352 and #402

Because I'm trying to see what I've missed about him having lynches he wanted.
Links in order - looks like any lynch would do him
There's nothing there about lynches.
Jumping onto a different wagon - aka any lynch would do him
As above.

Besides the fact he is now egging people to join him on Emp (as this hadn't happened until now), I haven't seen any lynches he has wanted in particular.

my point being RBD likely poisoned him anyway so why bother wagoning him today?

I'd rather keep a mislynch up my sleeves and not allow scum to talk to his buddies tonight.

[Cheery Dog]

Yes, and if someone dies by poison tonight, we're going to have lost one of the lynches we can use later, as it would if we stuff up take us into mylo instead of lylo.

[Cheery Dog]

If everything goes as it should, we shouldn't get anywhere near it anyway.

I'd still rather have my vote on the person I'm most confident in my read on regardless of whether he was hit by a delayed vig. There's also no need to rush this day, I can't see it going quicker tomorrow by simply lynching someone I still have in a null area.

[Cheery Dog]

and my point was avoiding that no lynch potential.

[Cheery Dog]

On Cheery's 582:
1. I really don't think is a mystery why I think Tiershift is scum, but I'll reiterate it for you. Tiershift is essentially playing like a noob. His votes seldom make sense. They're reactionary, minimally thought out, and are full of OMGUS. He continually refuses to back up his ideas and own them as his own, and flip fops around constantly. His play is just really really bad. He's playing like he doesn't have any theories of his own, because he doesn't know how to convincingly present fabricated ones as genuine. He's playing extremely noobscum. The biggest factor is the refusal to own up to his ideas. He doesn't want to be held responsible for the consequences of his votes.
2. I've seen both alignments accuse people of "lining up lynches", but I've never actually seen it materialize into anything but a mislynch. I think it's a stupid buzzword that ought to be ignored. Associating players in theories is perfectly normal, but every theory should be and usually is re-evaluated with every flip. Preemptively accusing someone of not doing that is nonsense.
3. Okay, I guess there is no 3, but how on earth did you glean that I was the best target from that recap post?

As far as I had read, I had seen none of that reasoning throughout the thread. As I think I saw, the whole of the reasoning I had seen from you was the connection you made early on from him defending newbies. It was mostly this that clued me into you being scum, and you not wanting potential mislynches defended so that they'll fall on their face as new townies often do.
Practically any buzzword gets that effect, but you having seen town being victims of it's misuse doesn't mean anything either.

Bulb: Why would you know that 'flipflopping and bad play, are part of [Tier's] town game'?

Because I've played with town Tier before. And I would charactarize Tier's play as having a sort of genuine earnestness behind trying to figure things out.

Before you're metaing on this scale, have you also played with him as scum?

Because it seemed unusual to me. I'm not sure how much I buy it. Besides, you never addressed why you decided to track RBD in the first place.[/quote]

Because it seemed unusual to me. I'm not sure how much I buy it. Besides, you never addressed why you decided to track RBD in the first place.

No one asked why. Not until this moment. And I only brought it up because someone mentioned the poison. The kicker is that Espionage says that he sent me a result PM, but I never got it, it's entirely possible that my claim was a complete waste. Clearly, this is something that someone would make up for no reasons.

I tracked Dashie because I don't like to get too comfortable about my townreads. Having a second opinion on them helps me catch my own mistakes. And as it turns out, it was a good thing. I had Dashie as null/town on day 1, and was wrong about that. And it'll be doubly fortunate that, if she did target someone, that person is likely confirmed town. I bet that information will help narrow down our lynch pool pretty well today and help us get a scum.

It was a wasted claim anyway, I haven't managed to convince people to rejoin your wagon yet.
Have you asked for your "results" again?

[Cheery Dog]

Sorry for being doubtful of his claim?

[Cheery Dog]

I guess I better let you have a chance of disproving your role.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Tiershift

[Cheery Dog]

I guess I better let you have a chance of disproving your role.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Tiershift

Empking is at L-2 and a hot topic.
why do you have no stated opinion of him either way.

It's practically impossible to get an opinion of Empking, along with many others that aren't posting as much content as they probably should.
When I'm also not that sure of Tiershift either, this lynch is practically going with random chance - therefore I'm willing to attempt to strike what may turn out to be fool's gold.

Also 80 minutes until deadline - Whiskers has the hammer currently.

[Cheery Dog]

Props to whoever protected me (or whoever you protected) last night. I tracked CX. He went nowhere.

Now, CAN WE PLEASE LYNCH TIERSHIFT!?

VOTE: Tiershift

I'm reading this as very much no kill gambit, along with you phyiscally asking for protection yesterday when people doing that should be obvious to any claimed investigative role, even though yours is still a lie.

VOTE: Paschendale

Uh, I forgot you replaced psyche. Hmm.

That was me, you probably shouldn't get confused - YOu don't want to go have AJ as town since you've been reading my slot, although I think he probably is town anyway.

[Cheery Dog]

No, I just don't care. You're scum. I don't need to satisfy you in any way.

Whiskers, Cheery, Bulba, let's sort this out and lynch us a scum.

I'm already voting you

The fact no one was poisoned pretty much confirms Pasch is a tracker. Whether he's scum or town is another question. But cx is by no means confirmed town.

The issue is why RBD was going on about being a confirmable role, when it's well known that he doesn't like town killing roles. (well okay I've been reminded by MD of this fact) It therefore doesn't mean anything. He could also have had a teammate roleblock, but I'd rather not go that far away from occam's razor.

there's 2 separate players insisting he is not a tracker for weird reasons.

It's still possible he is a tracker, but he's certainly not one that's aligned with town.

Hmm, I suppose you're right. Still, I find it doubtful that pasch chooses targets whose results are very easy to replicate, when there's quite a few people doubting his claim now. Perhaps he can conftracker himself N3?

How do you suppose he can conftracker himself? Tracker isn't a confirmable role except to each person individually, what do you plan on doing, no lynching and hoping he continues to perform no kill gambits?

[Cheery Dog]

I should be voting cheery.

unvote, vote: Cheery Dog

he's suggesting that Pasch is not a tracker because it is well known(apparently) that RBD wouldn't shoot with a town vig role - even though RBD specifically said he would be confirm-able on D2 - ergo Pasch is lying about the result. (along with lying about Cxinlee because Cx basically claimed vanilla )
or else Pasch is a scum tracker for reasons. Those reasons being a 'no kill gambit' and keeping his mislynch options open by attacking Tiershift over defending newbies

You keep going on about him claiming taker, it makes no difference, he is still scum.
My major reasons are still what they were when I first voted him yesterday in with the anti-newbie defend stuff.

[Cheery Dog]

My major reasons are still what they were when I first voted him yesterday in with the anti-newbie defend stuff.

you said you ignored empking because he was practically impossible to get a read on him along with the other players who are'nt posting much.
what's your reason for ignoring talking about tiershift today?

I'm not? I'm not going to reply to every post.

[Cheery Dog]

Oh right, lost posts.

I have Tiershift has town as I can't see him being scum with Pasch as nobody would bother with a tunnelbus this long. On his own I understand why people have him as scum and I'd probably agree except for that I'm this convinced Pasch is scum.

[Cheery Dog]

Did Tiershift just claim SK?

[Cheery Dog]

Nevermind, I misremembered stuff.

[Cheery Dog]

Pasch outing himself as tracker when discussing RBD's actions, and then later realizing he made a mistake just feels very town to me. I would think a scum tracker would keep his role secret, as that means he's holding all the cards and can use them to his advantage. Pasch put himself out in the open, and the moment he realizes that looks like genuine town realizing he messed up. I'm sure it's possible for scum to come up with something like that as a gambit, but I find it unlikely now that we're closer to endgame. Plus, I don't think Pasch would even think of it as scum, nor be able to pull it off.

But the whole thing is part of his no kill gambit last night.

[Cheery Dog]

The whole reason why anyone ever does a gambit. Gambits are risky in their name.

[Cheery Dog]

So who do you think it would have come from then?

He fricken owned up to it by "thanking" the doc.

[Cheery Dog]

The only current claimed PR that isn't scum is dry-fit, which happened today.
If there is a doctor that protected pasch, well just as well pasch's team decided to no kill gambit.

All I know for sure about the setup is the 3 deaths, extra mason and my own role.

Still fairly sure cx & ken are town, pasch is scum and tiershift is therefore town.

and whiskers is apparently 3rd party.

Which also gives me max, you and AJ as the other 2 likely scums.

[Cheery Dog]

Oh, and if there's a doc, please keep me alive tonight.

Props to whoever protected me (or whoever you protected) last night.

[Cheery Dog]

So, cheery, I see that the doc protect claim with a mason alive is pretty awkward, but then again, not super likely to come from a scum tracker.
For me he's either a town tracker or a non-tracker scum. Even if you don't see it the same way, why won't you at least let him prove the tracker part? It's not like he's unlynchable tomorrow.

Pasch, if you don't track whiskers tonight I'll take it as a scumclaim.

I still don't believe it's a confirmable role. I'm aware that it would invovle a blind guess normally, but we have to remember that whiskers

isn't town

.

[Cheery Dog]

Some form of global back-ups?
I think if I go thinking too much I'll just get more confused at the gamestate, so we should all go lynch Pasch-scum.

[Cheery Dog]

I still don't believe it's a confirmable role. I'm aware that it would invovle a blind guess normally, but we have to remember that whiskers

isn't town

.

lol?
so Pasch can track Whiskers and prove he is a tracker role at least, but we can't trust Whiskers verifying it because Whiskers claimed a third party role.

Still doesn't stop Pasch being scum.

But the point is since we can't trust whiskers, there's pasch can outright lie a result and we won't know any better. He did just commit a no kill gambit, so who knows anything.

[Cheery Dog]

But the point is since we can't trust whiskers, there's pasch can outright lie a result and we won't know any better. He did just commit a no kill gambit, so who knows anything.

Pasch can't lie because he **risks confirming himself as scum to whiskers**
Just like he would of risked being caught out badly if he lied about RBD + Cxinlee tracks. Needless risks with not a great payoff.
Yes scum trackers exist but you keep arguing he is

lying about being a tracker

Even if Whiskers is third party =/= helping the mafia.
That is, if Whiskers is even a third party role and not full of bs - which he likely is.
You were not like this before

I'll just outright ask...do you have role information that Pasch isn't a tracker? If so,

just say it

Just because someone is claiming to be playing to aid the town doesn't mean they actually are - aka why we don't get scum claims.
He'd probably be dead if RBD had used poison. (but I stand by RBD not being one to use town killing roles, it's as simple as knowing who his main (or possible mane) is).

Are you suggesting I'm not capable of being confident in my scum reads because I wasn't nearly a year ago?

Don't you think I would have already announced role related reasons if I had them? I'm also been stating that he could still be a tracker, but he is also still scum.

[Cheery Dog]

I still have no idea why anyone would vote whiskers, who voluntarily shared role info with us. Does anyone truly believe an anti-town 3rd party would just claim 3rd party? Really?
I think she actually is third party by now, seeing how long she keeps this up.

Dry, why don't you come over for a bulba vote? I'm actually down to vote max as well, but it seems like there is less support for a max lynch.

Tier's going for any lynch again?

Maybe I do somehow have him and pasch mixed up with alignments.

[Cheery Dog]

It's more the timing of when you made the comment that made me thoughtful, your next post after Dry-fit mentioned he was considering moving off Max.

[Cheery Dog]

Have we ruled out survivor as the win condition? Otherwise it could be mylo today.

[Cheery Dog]

Actually, let me go back and do all the ones where you say, "let's lynch Tier!" Lol. It'll be fun!

Thank goodness someone else has finally noticed this part of why pasch is scum.

[Cheery Dog]

And, I'm not being a douche here, either: if you're that certain that TS is scum, why haven't you been treating him as flipped, looking for his scumbuddies?

why hasn't cheery?

because I don't believe TS is scum?

I believe I've also already stated that it's you out of you, aj & bulba as pasch's partners due to PoE.

[Cheery Dog]

PoE without me actually flipping? Bad doggie! *smacks you on the nose with a newspaper*

But seriously, do you have any notions of who is scum that doesn't rely on being my buddy? Cuz that'll come back to bite you if you don't.

people should actually read more

I'm still happy with town reads on cx and ken (although they both should be posting more), whiskers is highly likely to be telling the truth about 3rd party. Dry-fit is confirmed town. (as you don't get games with only one mason unless great(er/est) idea)

Tier is the only one I'm calling town due to what I think you'll flip.
aka PoE on the rest as possible scum.

[Cheery Dog]

Also, pasche, you didn't answer my question. Who are TS's partners?

I've already told you that I don't speculate on connections without a flip. If you want to ask who else I think is scum, that's different, but those will be for independent reasons unrelated to Tiershift. You don't seem to have any scum suspects at all.

Please explain about half of your day one posts of not making connections.

[Cheery Dog]

For example these:

At this point, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see a scumteam of you, Zekrom, and Kenobi.

Peedit: And Kenobi sheeps his scumbuddy. And points out something that is not at all a scumtell to back it up.

That's 2/3 scum found. I wonder if Zek will pop in and make it a trifecta. Which one should we lynch first?

I'm not defending myself. I'm attacking you. I don't need defending because the only votes for me besides an RVS that never left is you and your scumbuddies. And you all voted for me, like a row of little ducklings.

You imply that I should not defend my vote on you, without giving actual reasons for it, you just say it looks scummy. That's AtF.

I imply nothing. I'm saying you're doing it badly. I'm saying that you're making so many bad assumptions to justify your predetermined conclusion that it's obvious that it's a ploy. You've said that your argument doesn't even hinge on Whiskers' alignment. Just that quick wagons sometimes have scum on them. I'd agree... if they actually went to a lynch. But you still offer nothing as to why THIS quick wagon had scum on it.

Now, I think it had scum on it, too. But not simply because it was a quick wagon. I think it did because of how some of the votes were cast and then later treated. Specifically the votes cast by your two scumbuddies. The rest of us were clearly joking around, and Zek and Ken just throw votes without a comment. What are they hiding?

UNVOTE

i'll see where this is headed before i vote again

Caught scum number 2 backs down.

TierShift's responses are completely wrong in every regard. No one is settling. The more experienced players, who recognize how newbies act both as scum and as town. New players roll scum sometimes. There are no policy lynches being advocated. TS needs to get off this whole "we can't lynch newbies" thing. Though he's probably buddies with one of them and is fairly new himself. So I can see the conflict of interest.

I really doubt Emp and Bulba are both scum. That was a fight that could have easily ended in one of their lynches.

Sure, bussing a buddy for towncred.

[Cheery Dog]

No seriously, day 1 is different, and when people are leaping so hard to defend each other in such awful ways, they should be admonished for it. When you have real information, you should use the real information and not descend back to day 1 guessing. That's what speculating about partners right now would be. If you can't tell the difference, then you have some serious problems on your hands.

No I can't tell the difference between having no scum flips day 1 and having no scum flips day 3.
It is known a scum team exists somewhere, I feel that connections made day 1 are just as likely to be able to be made in future days.

If you play with day one just being a guessfest, then you're the one with the problem.

[Cheery Dog]

unvote

for the moment while i think.
i kinda want to ask you to watch pasch tonight...but it's ridiculous that you didn't use it last night.

That would be a waste, it's not like he's going to kill himself now is he.

It'd be better on dry-fit as an actual confirmed town.

[Cheery Dog]

I don't know, practically everything can be used for WIFOM.

Anyway in case people can't timezone convert, we have 23 hours left of this day.

[Cheery Dog]

Obviously I was meant to set myself an alarm seeing as noone else is here/hammered for today's lynch.

VOTE: Tiershift
Something has to happen right?

[Cheery Dog]

Hopefully this day will go better than yesterday.

Besides my pasch scum read flipping town, I think I'm going to need to reread this thread. I guess max would be worth checking out.

And that watcher claim from ts beds proven in a hurry - bp masons, tracker, jailkeeper, poisoner and watcher?
What the heck is the scum team made of?

[Cheery Dog]

Why immediately go for Aj? I'd like to see reasons before a vote, especially at this stage in the game.

Have you not read the end of day 2? Or his post?

[Cheery Dog]

In that case bulba, its auto lose for town

We could end up with a prisoner's dilemma.

The way you're continuing about being autolose for town while there is a slim possibly it's not (as the mafia would know Whiskers has claimed third party), makes me think you just want more apathy and my townread on you is dodgy.

But for town to still win without resulting in a prisoner's dilemma. (or worse a king maker)
scum lynch today
whiskers to kill scum tonight. (we assume mafia decide not to kill whiskers while there are 2 members alive, so one townie dies)
We are now at 3:1:1 - lynch mafia/sk, preferably mafia as if it was wrong, the PA still comes in.
SK kills town
We lynch SK = town win.

[Cheery Dog]

In that case bulba, its auto lose for town

We could end up with a prisoner's dilemma.

The way you're continuing about being autolose for town while there is a slim possibly it's not (as the mafia would know Whiskers has claimed third party), makes me think you just want more apathy and my townread on you is dodgy.

But for town to still win without resulting in a prisoner's dilemma. (or worse a king maker)

scum lynch

today

whiskers to kill scum

tonight. (we assume mafia decide not to kill whiskers while there are 2 members alive, so one townie dies)
We are now at 3:1:1 -

lynch mafia

/sk, preferably mafia as if it was wrong, the PA still comes in.
SK kills town
We lynch SK = town win.

This is incorrect in the most likely case of 3 mafia.
It's creepy that you are assuming two.

Come again? I may have switched between calling them scum/mafia, but I am very capable of counting to 3.

[Cheery Dog]

Ok cheery do you have opinions here

Your one big opinion died

I have stated other opinions other than my one that turned out to be wrong with pasch.

Right now it's at least one of you and AJ are scum, I'm more prone to think it's you as your lack of use of the role night 2 still feels lacking.
(I'm also regretting missing the deadline by less than 5 minutes)

[Cheery Dog]

Ok nvm this let's not go 1v1 with AJ

I'm a serial killer.

Claiming a scum role feels glorious.

So why did you not care about Whiskers claiming a third party yesterday?

What about Day 2, or his post? What's going on?

TierShift claimed 1-shot watcher that hadn't been used at the end of day 2, then you claimed intention to hammer, and seemingly forgot to timezone convert.

VOTE: bulba

It should be very obvious that there is at least one scum on my wagon and I'm back to leaning bulba. Or bulba+AJ.

Which one of your wagons are you talking about here

Actually I wouldn't be surprised with the day 2 actions if TS and Whiskers were actually a "3rd party" together and this game was possibly multiball.

VOTE: TierShiftp

[Cheery Dog]

If Tiershift flips sk, and there are 3 mafia left, won't we lose?

Only if they're all on the same team.

[Cheery Dog]

Lol are you saying I should have claimed SK yesterday?
That's so dumb
The only thing I needed to do yesterday was to survive the day and then hit town at night so I couldn't be lynched today.

No I'm saying you should have actually cared at all. The only comments you made regarding whiskers yesterday (unless there's more where I can't be bothered looking at context) was saying that pasch should track her, and asking if she was doing something to save her hide.

I did read something that you called something an SK slip though, which doesn't make much sense if presumably you know you're an SK that you're currently claiming.

[Cheery Dog]

Since i haven't posted this page yet, may as well attempt to respond.

@Cheery: you seem like one of the few sane people in this game. Help?

I'll put it in a list of what has happened today.
Tiershift claimed a result as having watched AJ apparently visit pasch
Bulba made mention of Whisker's third party claim, and apparent SK and figured out a plan
TS withdrew his watcher claim and claimed SK
Whiskers won't shed any more details about the claimed third party role.
I looked back over day 2 and saw possible buddying interactions between TS and whiskers with Whiskers not getting around to the hammer (I had previously assumed timezone error when I went to do the hammer yesterday). TS also didn't make note of Whisker's third party claim yesterday, although there are mentions of 2 third party players, he isn't pushing whiskers as scum, which would make more sense, and could be done without outting himself.
This leads me to believe that either TS is scum with Whiskers and the second kill has been coming from a second scum team. (would likely be 2:2 multiball in this case) or TS is on a the only groupscum team and realised that bulba was right in that whiskers would be able to out which one of TS/AJ was scum based on the watcher claim.
Whiskers is probably being quiet in the second case because an unknown SK (even if it is known) would still have a chance of winning. (it would depend on additional powers which are probably likely when the masons had bp)

tl;dr, TS is scum and needs lynched.

[Cheery Dog]

That makes even less sense for why you tried to frame AJ for killing pasch.

[Cheery Dog]

You're not going to even address the case on you? You're just going to call yourself possible town, say the wagon is unwarranted, and then slink off?

It is consistent with how he was wagoned day 1, except no threat of a self-hammer yet.

[Cheery Dog]

How do you figure this? Don't we have to both lynch scum, and you shoot scum?

No, that's incorrect.

How many scum are alive?

[Cheery Dog]

Oh right you don't care about town.

[Cheery Dog]

Both town and I care about not letting this go to a maf win instantly.

Just as well you're mafia that about to be lynched, hey?

[Cheery Dog]

Woo!

What the heck was with Whisker's third party claim? (it attracted my rolecopping if that was the plan?)

Maxous got me trapped on tunneling Pasch after mentioning the possible poison, I was originally planning on switching onto Tiershift after he answered my question about his reasons.

[Cheery Dog]

I was confused when I found out there was a full jailkeeper and tracker in the setup (as I didn't know there was a serial killer then), if my slot had been lynched day 1, I went with two people would have been converted into cops for the one known buddy. (we did get lucky with finding him night 1 though)

I also deliberately didn't hammer TS day 3 (using the must unvote rule, I had meant to do it in deadline) to either connect myself if I got caught moving.

Also TS's fake watcher report probably confused me the most, as he had actually done the kill on max. (I assumed it was something to with Whiskers, even though I was told vt.

[Cheery Dog]

-- he's right, TS should have been lynched the day before, and Esp. is a dick for including that in his ruleset--

Scum do like to play around with unusual rules like that

If the rule wasn't there I probably would have ended up not posting after I saw deadline pass. (although I was going to do an unvote and hammer had I not been 5 minutes late (deadline was listed in aussie time).

He avoided being lynched both day 2 & 3.

[Cheery Dog]

I don't manipulate on newness

I'll manipulate on newness though. It's generally easier. Or at least buddy them with the type of posts that don't really mean much but can be identified as town thought process.

[Cheery Dog]

I don't like to manipulate newness as I generally prefer teaching... and to manipulate newness around Mollie/Jiffy and the crew I generally follow means death. Plus, that's a terrible note to have when you get meta-checked...

Nobody reads postgame for meta. They shouldn't anyway, the posting is out of alignment. (and also won't help when as town I believe I read the same posts type of posts correctly and will post about them in much the same manner)

I think I cruised on psyche's play as well (and as per usual when I know who is scum, I couldn't see him as town when I read through)