Mini 1536 - Silph Co. Reverse Mafia (Game Over)

[Paschendale]

VOTE: Whiskers

Always sheep Rainbowdash.

[Paschendale]

Also, I'll be on a train for most of tomorrow.

[Paschendale]

Well, a quickwagon on Whiskers before she even posts will certainly help narrow down the scum.

[Paschendale]

Are we going to have a discussion about whether RVS is pro-town now?

[Paschendale]

I don't like Psyche's refusals to engage one bit. Obviously Rainbow isn't confirmed anything, otherwise the mod would have said it, not Rainbow. But the reactions are just puzzling. Empking's answer is correct, but I don't get why Psyche said that it was "so soon". What the hell is that about? What's so soon? Psyche's reaction makes no sense at all. Also "no one's scummy" on post 15 is just bizarre. Of course no one is scummy by post 15. What does Psyche expect, a neon sign? I don't get this at all.

Obviously we're not going to do anything to Whiskers while he's not even here. But consider content generated.

UNVOTE: Whiskers

I don't get why Dry Fit is voting me or why Tiershift now agrees with it. Apparently being kinda serious and kinda not serious during RVS is a scumtell now. Who knew? Dry Fit's vote looks silly, but TS' looks serious, which is puzzling because it is nonsensical. Plus the initial vote on DF before now sheeping looks like distancing.

The net result is that I don't know what Psyche is trying to do, but it's evasive. 24 says "maybe it wasn't an attack". That's about the waffliest thing you can say. Maybe it was an attack. And if it wasn't, what was it, and what is Psyche trying to accomplish?

Also, people without avatars should

get freaking avatars

.

None of the Whiskers wagon looks particularly malicious, though Zekrom's lack of even a comment or a joke is a bit fishy. That was the basis for my comment in 14. Empking seems okay so far. He and Psyche definitely did different things, and so treating them the same is definitely wrong.

Actually, I don't like Bulb's reactions at all. What does he mean "natural reaction"? That sounds like empty buzzword talk to me. And he is, as above, wrong about Empking and Psyche saying the same things.

TierShift's Psyche vote is okay, and the rest of his point is fine, but it's weak, like he doesn't believe it. And then he recants immediately, and asks to be told what to do. It feels like he's trying to get people on his side, rather than accomplish anything. Suspicious.

Dashie is right. Why does Empking and Psyche talking about the same thing in different ways mean that one is scum? That seems completely unfounded. And it's funny that people are still asking about the conftown thing. Dashie is not conftown, though looks towny from her actions.

I don't like Kenobi's sidelining, either. It's fine to watch something play out, but the "almost tempted to change my vote" sounds like trying to have it both ways. I've tried to write that same post a few times as scum in the past and it was equally as telling.

Cxinlee's sole post is dumb. Empking was clearly just employing parallel construction to echo the phrasing that Bulb used. I mean, yeah you've got to post something, but that looks like the same kind of awkward intro that I sometimes find myself doing as scum.

Towny: Empking, Maxous, Dashie, Dry-Fit
Scummy: Bulb, Psyche, Zekrom, TierShift, Kenobi, Cxinlee
Need to post: Whiskers

VOTE: Bulb

[Paschendale]

I wanted to avoid giving null reads.

[Paschendale]

Unlike you, I do agree with bulba that there is possibly/probably (what's the word I'm looking for here?) is a scum on the wagon. Like, it's not a very strong clue, but it's something at a point in time where we have nothing else.

Why do you think this and why is it any different from randomly picking a lynch pool?

[Paschendale]

Unlike you, I do agree with bulba that there is possibly/probably (what's the word I'm looking for here?) is a scum on the wagon. Like, it's not a very strong clue, but it's something at a point in time where we have nothing else.

Why do you think this and why is it any different from randomly picking a lynch pool?

Scum sheep. A lot. When a wagon builds very quickly without reason (even in rvs) there is often scum on it.

And just as often not. What if Whiskers were scum? Would you still think that about this wagon? I pointed out exactly this exact point, still on the first page, and yet you think that I'm the scummiest person on the wagon. But then again, I was referring to a wagon with an actual flip. When there would be reason to start analyzing it. Scum could just as easily have been avoiding it to keep their teammate from getting randomly lynched. And on such a quick wagon, the later votes are much more suspect, not the third one.

The more you try to defend this vote on me, the worse it looks. Maybe we should string you up instead of Bulb. At this point, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see a scumteam of you, Zekrom, and Kenobi.

Peedit: And Kenobi sheeps his scumbuddy. And points out something that is not at all a scumtell to back it up.

That's 2/3 scum found. I wonder if Zek will pop in and make it a trifecta. Which one should we lynch first?

[Paschendale]

The above question is mainly for Dashie, Maxous, and Empking, whose opinions ought to be listened to.

[Paschendale]

I'm saying Empking's reaction to my vote is uncharacteristic of his play. He completely overreacted and got really defensive over some simple pressure, which culminated in an OMGUS. Keep in mind, Empking is generally a more laid back player. So why does he freak out all of a sudden? Hence, it's an unnatural reaction.

So really it's a weak ass meta argument, and all you're saying is that it's different. Now explain why different means scum.

Why does Empking and Psyche talking about the same thing in different ways mean that one is scum?

They essentially commented on the night action, only in this case, we weren't dealing with a night action but a conf. town claim that anybody with a modicum of experience would know was early game BS.

And that means one is town and one is scum... why?

I wanted to avoid giving null reads.

Why?

Because I thought it would be more useful. Since we're still so early, no reads are likely to be super strong, but every leans one way or the other. Truly neutral reads only come later on when there's just a lot of good and a lot of bad from a person and you're not sure which way it tilts. It's much easier to avoid that early on.

Either way, what about that is scum motivated or problematic?

Yes, threaten him. Because that's the way to earn town points.

I'm not trying to earn town points. I'm trying to find scum. And it looks like I'm succeeding so far.

I think scum Pasch would absolutely take solid stances on either side, instead of expressing a null, which means that he doesn't know. After all, it's more about appearing to have reads, rather than actually having them.

That's an awfully unsubstantiated assumption you're making there, Bulb.

I really would like a Ken wagon here.

I'm down.

UNVOTE: Bulb

Ok my vote goes from semi-serious to serious. I find your defensivity concerning.

I'm not defending myself. I'm attacking you. I don't need defending because the only votes for me besides an RVS that never left is you and your scumbuddies. And you all voted for me, like a row of little ducklings.

You imply that I should not defend my vote on you, without giving actual reasons for it, you just say it looks scummy. That's AtF.

I imply nothing. I'm saying you're doing it badly. I'm saying that you're making so many bad assumptions to justify your predetermined conclusion that it's obvious that it's a ploy. You've said that your argument doesn't even hinge on Whiskers' alignment. Just that quick wagons sometimes have scum on them. I'd agree... if they actually went to a lynch. But you still offer nothing as to why THIS quick wagon had scum on it.

Now, I think it had scum on it, too. But not simply because it was a quick wagon. I think it did because of how some of the votes were cast and then later treated. Specifically the votes cast by your two scumbuddies. The rest of us were clearly joking around, and Zek and Ken just throw votes without a comment. What are they hiding?

Then, you call me scum, with the guys that are playing their first game here. That's pretty damn low. I think these guys belong in the Newbie forum, but don't try to mix up newbieness with scumminess here.

If this is their first game, tough on them. They should be in Newbie games instead. Tell me, why do you think new players can't roll scum? They'll look like newb scum then, rather than newb town. Your newb scum scumbuddies look like newb scum.

Honestly, it seems like Zekrom's just following whatever I said. As for why pasch? I don't really know, in all honesty. He just struck me as scummy. I'm actually unsure as to who I feel is scum and who's town at this point.

I'm going to reserve judgment for a bit longer here. Also, apropos nothing: when does the themed stuff occur? is it only the initial setup/removal of characters that's themed, or what?

Caught scum backs off to try to save himself.

one main quote of his to keep in mind
Paschendale explain yourself if this isn't bait and i'll change my vote

Could you be any more vague?

yet another quote from Pasch that seems like he is trying to bait others

What do you even mean by bait?

UNVOTE

i'll see where this is headed before i vote again

Caught scum number 2 backs down.

[Paschendale]

Dashie, why Ken over Zek and Tier?

Emp, do you agree with my theories so far?

Maxous, same question to you.

Psyche, do you have any opinions to add?

Cx and IH, where you at?

@Mod: Maybe a prod for Whiskers?

Dry-Fit, had enough with your vote on me and wanna move it to scum?

I'll agree to start with Ken, but I'd like to discuss all 3 of my main suspects before we lynch one of them.

VOTE: Kenobi

[Paschendale]

The game started 3 days ago and she hasn't posted at all. Seems like she might need the reminder.

[Paschendale]

You have already shown an uncanny sense of self-awareness, which is indicative of scum. I don't think I'm off here at all.

Or, you know, I'm just a persuasive speaker and not oblivious to how I sound. I think a better question than why am I like that is why aren't you?

[Paschendale]

I like Kenobi's 128. And I hate everything Zek did in response.

Whiskers' comments about this are, as expected, spot on. I'm glad you finally make it, Whiskers. I missed you.

TierShift's responses are completely wrong in every regard. No one is settling. The more experienced players, who recognize how newbies act both as scum and as town. New players roll scum sometimes. There are no policy lynches being advocated. TS needs to get off this whole "we can't lynch newbies" thing. Though he's probably buddies with one of them and is fairly new himself. So I can see the conflict of interest.

Let me expound. Zek's response to Ken voting for him was an OMGUS. Is OMGUS a scum tell? A town tell? A newb tell? A newb town tell? A newb scum tell? Which is it? It's all of them, really. The same action can have different motivations based on how it is done. In my experience, an OMGUS is often a newb town tell. New town players get into the mindset that they are wholly righteous and that the game has pretty clear delineations between town and scum. They don't expect to be lynched by a group of town, and only pursued by mustache twirling villains. Those kinds of OMGUS are emotional, often angry and sometimes betrayed. The idea is that they know that they're town, so only scum could possibly try to paint them as not. That kind of OMGUS is usually an indicator of an inexperienced player who rolled town.

But that's not what Zek did. He said that the vote lacked "actual reasoning", which is an outright lie, and "seems to be a scum-like thing to do at this point in the game" which is an extremely careful thing to say. It is not emotional and outraged. It is conditional. It's not scummy, it just seems scum-like. It wouldn't be scummy all the time, just at this point in the game. That's a decision, not a reaction. An OMGUS reaction is usually towny. An OMGUS decision is far more indicative of scum.

An important thing to understand, TierShift, is not just to see newb tells, but to know which ones are town and which ones are scum.

VOTE: Zekrom

Seriously, all aboard this train. Let's lynch a scum on day 1.

[Paschendale]

I was gonna respond that we shouldn't lynch newbies when we aren't really sure about their alignments because we won't have nothing to work off but dayumm they keep on being more and more scummy.
Ugh. Perhaps you were just earlier to see that than me. I'm gonna drop the issue.

Whiskers, my vote still resides with you. Could you comment more on the state of matters here instead of picking solely at one newbie, no matter how scummy he may be?

So then who SHOULD we be lynching if not the scummy newbie? Who is scummier than that? Why?

And if you think that Zek is scummy, why the hell are you accusing Whiskers for thinking the same thing?

[Paschendale]

As you can see, I said that I've dropped the issue since I find both newbies (especially zekrom) to be scummy now. I'm fine with you voting for zekrom.

I vote Whiskers mainly for the lack of substantial game content while making an extensively case on an easy lynch target, however scummy.
This is a vote that could possibly change but so far it just feels like whiskers is going with the flow and not trying to find scum amongst more experienced players.

You could also vote cxinlee for the opportunistic play but as I said the zekrom vote is fine.

I don't think the word "opportunistic" means what you think it means.

[Paschendale]

@Mod: My vote is on Zekrom.

Read 6a.

[Paschendale]

@Mod: My vote is on Zekrom.

Read 6a.

Oh right. I forgot which game that was a thing in. It doesn't really make me pay better attention. It just has the capacity to fuck up a vote count. I mean, what if someone got lynched by this technicality, rather than the actual intent of the players? That would kinda ruin the game.

UNVOTE: Kenobi
VOTE: Zekrom

Bulba, how about you stop just fighting with people and push your own argument?

[Paschendale]

Bulba, how about you stop just fighting with people and push your own argument?

I thought I was. What part of "Empking is scum!" didn't you get?

All of it. I didn't see your comments about him as different from just the other arguing. Can you state your case in a collected and concise manner?

[Paschendale]

I don't think the word "opportunistic" means what you think it means.

Google gives me this: "exploiting immediate opportunities".

Exactly what cxinlee was doing. There was an easy opportunity to jump on a wagon there and he certainly did. His vote didn't feel like he was convinced at all.

Then explain why that's scum motivated and not town motivated. Acting on new information quickly sounds alignment neutral to me.

What do you think of cxinlee?

He's okay. I'd like more out of him, but I'd like more out of everyone with fewer than 10 posts.

[Paschendale]

He posted useful scumhunting, as opposed to the single post he'd made when I put him in the scum category.

[Paschendale]

AJ's 194 contains a lot of words, and not a lot of content.

I don't understand the bolded bits of Cin's 196. Are you attacking your own read? Your own quote? I am confused.

Dashie, why don't you give some good reads, then we can discuss alliance.

[Paschendale]

After seeing 203 I decided to reread on empking and he's been hugely slipping under the radar. 9 of his 12 posts are about addressing a case bulba made on him. He doesn't actually address anything at all, he just keeps saying bulba is wrong and the case is addressed. On top of that, he votes bulba for forcing, which he further doesn't explain. No scumhunting, nothing.

Survival tactics+not hunting. Scum.

Two scumreads atm, cx and emp.

This is a legit concern that you need to address, Emp.

I do not, however, see the merits in the CX wagon.

[Paschendale]

I do not, however, see the merits in the CX wagon.

list his reads for me

List yours

[Paschendale]

After seeing 203 I decided to reread on empking and he's been hugely slipping under the radar. 9 of his 12 posts are about addressing a case bulba made on him. He doesn't actually address anything at all, he just keeps saying bulba is wrong and the case is addressed. On top of that, he votes bulba for forcing, which he further doesn't explain. No scumhunting, nothing.

Survival tactics+not hunting. Scum.

Two scumreads atm, cx and emp.

This is a legit concern that you need to address, Emp.

I do not, however, see the merits in the CX wagon.

How have I not addressed anything at all. Name a single point he's made that I haven't mentioned and addressed. Also claiming that my posts are saying that Bulba is 'wrong' is a wilful and undeniable misrepresentation of my claim that Bulba is 'wrong about everything'; Tier gives a dishonest impression with, just, enough similarity with the truth that it couldn't be done, but on purpose.

Forcing is related to his being wrong on everything. Also, the notion that I'm not scum hunting is absurd; I'm interacting with my top scum read, what's Tier been doing other than misrepresent?

What about your other scumreads? Don't you have any? And just interacting... that's not going to sell a wagon. You need an argument. I don't mean a fight, I mean a debate kind of argument. Who do you think is scum, who do you think is town, and why?

Now, im curious, how does not having reads make me scum?

Well, no, it mostly just makes you a lazy useless piece of shit. Which is incredibly anti-town, and so you might as well be scum.

This. Very much so. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

People keep on paying attention to null silliness rather than the clear and deliberate actions. You can't find scum motivation is the accidents of Kenobi and Zekrom. Bulb's constant errors, Tier's constant dishonesty. You find scum in two places; trends and stress points. We haven't had any 'stress points', and none of those things you mentioned are scummy trends. The scummy trends are coming from Tier and Bulb, and that's where I'm keeping my attention. It's being distracted by easy-to-comment-on null acts that gives us the best chance at losing this game.

Why don't you elaborate on those trends for us.

[Paschendale]

Tonight.

[Paschendale]

I like that other people are stepping up a bit more. Awesome. I'm gonna officially go away for two days (V/LA until Wednesday).

See you all then!

[Paschendale]

Okay, Pasch is back. And armed with a place to live next month!

Whiskers, please go into more detail about your vote and your other reads.

Does anyone actually think that TierShift is town?

AJ, keep being awesome

I like Dry's description of Zek's play. It might be incompetance, it might be something sinister. But when I first started playing this game, I was told "never attribute to stupidity that which is adequately explained by malice". And it's been right pretty often. Whenever I let someone off the hook due to "noobness", I usually regret it.

It also really feels like Tier is trying to protect Zek. No part of me would be surprised to see them on a scumteam together.

Psyche has avoided saying much of anything for quite a while. Unacceptable.

Empking and Bulba's arguments don't look particularly alignment indicative at all. It looks more like ego than anything useful. If either of you have a real argument to make about the other, please make it in a concise manner addressed to town, not just an argument with each other. Empking in general looks townier than Bulba, though.

Dashie, where's the content? Quiet Dashie is suspicious Dashie.

Kenobi, I'm going to want some pretty serious offerings from you when you get back.

So, updated reads list

-Town-
AJ
Whiskers
Maxous

-Leaning Town-
Empking
Dry-Fit

-Null at Best-
Bulba
Dashie
Psyche
Cxinlee
Kenobi

-Gets the Rope-
TierShift
Zekrom

[Paschendale]

Cx, how about you stop with the heavy handed stuff and just tell us who you think is scum and why?

Same to you, Dashie. Who do you suspect besides Cx?

I think Tiershift is my top choice right now. I would very much like to hear people weigh in on that.

Unvote

VOTE: TierShift

[Paschendale]

A list isn't enough, Kenobi. Why do you lean that way on those people?

[Paschendale]

I'm getting tired of this crap. Put up or face the rope, Cx.

Unvote
Vote: Cx

[Paschendale]

I think a lynch would improve the quality of this game. Discussion has been stale and taking another 10 days is gonna give us nothing but apathy.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: cxinlee

PLEASE CAN WE KILL THIS!?!?!

[Paschendale]

Unvote

I don't want to see Cx lynched yet, by any means. But I DO want him to say something useful. Cx, I took the vote off, but you're on thin ice and it can easily go back. Step up.

[Paschendale]

Every time you post, Zek, it just makes me facepalm.

[Paschendale]

No, I agree. He was at L-1. Now he's at L-2, no pressure. L-2 is not L-1, and L-1 is not lynched. Why the fuck would you remove your vote if you're trying to pressure him into action?

Because I didn't want someone to derp hammer, and I had a sinking suspicion that someone would.

@Cx: I meant what I said, though. You get 24 hours until my vote goes back on you.

[Paschendale]

I'm definitely not seeing anything in the last page, least of all the reaction to his wagon, to make Cx look townier. Tiershift and Zek are still my top scumreads. I'm cool to lynch Zek today, as he has all but claimed scum, but I really feel like a lot of players have gone under the radar.

VOTE: Tiershift

[Paschendale]

I'm definitely not seeing anything in the last page, least of all the reaction to his wagon, to make Cx look townier. Tiershift and Zek are still my top scumreads. I'm cool to lynch Zek today, as he has all but claimed scum, but I really feel like a lot of players have gone under the radar.

VOTE: Tiershift

Why were you ever voting Cxi in the first place, if you didn't have a scumread on him?

Because now, both Tiershift and Zekrom are higher scumreads from you, than Cxi is-- despite the fact that nothing Cxi did in the last page gave you a townier read on him??
Why did you even vote him, then?

Because his lack of useful content was pissing me off and I wanted to pressure him. But then not only did he not produce any useful ideas (besides his self-hammer shennanigans, and I agree with your analysis of it), but then people were actually going to lynch him in what was pretty clearly a scummy push. I don't know Cx's alignment, but I feel a lot more sure of Tiershift and Zek.

I also want to discuss,

I'm cool to lynch Zek today, as he has all but claimed scum,

OK. I'm gonna go ahead and say, yes, I don't like him for town. He makes a great policy lynch. And hey, maybe he'll flip scum, too! Zekrom makes a great Day 1 lynch.
But no, he has not "all but claimed scum." You're joking, right?

In no way do I intend to invoke "too dumb to scum", but I should point out that Zekrom's recent post to RainbowDash-- something about "If you are town, why would you want to lynch a potentially town player!"-- is clear evidence that he is crap at the game. Perhaps your skill will improve at some point, Zekrom, but right now, you're pretty crap.

That post is both an indirect attack-- an OMGUS, no less-- and a townclaim, which is useless. Worse still is that he acts like Town-RainbowDash should already know his alignment, when she

could not

. Even as Cop, she couldn't. Only as Masons-with-Zekrom, or as Scum, would RBD already know Zek's alignment.

It is evident that Zek hasn't thought this post through, and I'd go so far as to say that it's clear that Zek hasn't thought

at all

. He still makes a great lynch, but "Oh wow he p much claimed scum" is bullshit and it reflects poorly-- and by that, I mean scummily-- on you for suggesting it.

I have a personal policy of not letting scummy players off the hook due to looking like they might be inexperienced. I usually end up paying for it later when I do. But Zek, as amateur as he is, genuinely looks like amateur scum rather than amateur town. He doesn't react like town, his ideas aren't town. There's deception in his posts. They're poorly disguised, but it doesn't read like genuine attempts to help town win. I don't see him as a policy lynch. Kenobi would be a policy lynch. But I don't see him as scum.

But Tiershift, Tiershift doesn't have that excuse either way. He's been consistently against progress the whole day, has relied on crap arguments, and generally gives reads that look strategic rather than genuine.

[Paschendale]

My reaction to that is that you're playing up your noobishness intentionally. You never referred to scum as "the mafia scum" before, nor is there any reason for you to think that you'll be night killed. You suck, but you're not retarded.

[Paschendale]

Fine, Zek goes first.

[/b]Unvote
Vote: Zekrom[/b]

L-1

[Paschendale]

Fine, Zek goes first.

[/b]Unvote
Vote: Zekrom[/b]

L-1

Unvote
Vote: Zekrom

[Paschendale]

If that's an IC claim we actually may want to go massclaim route because as I said, im cleared too on multiple levels, especially if we massclaim early (like by end of D2). This could be a "me theory" jackpot.

If it's an IC claim, the mod should be confirming it. I don't think it is.

[Paschendale]

Are you high, Bulba?

[Paschendale]

Whiskers, you're basically just asking over and over about a judgement call. Several times, I've lost games by not lynching scum because they looked like they were just noobs. People play that way on purpose to deflect criticism. So many people have alts and hydras that their join date being recent is no indication whatsoever of their ability. I didn't think that Zek was incompetent. His actions looked deliberate to me. And they were deliberately anti-town. A tantrum and a self-hammer is anti-town. He just wasn't playing to his win con.

Now let's talk about Bulba's read list.

Whiskers and AJ are solidly town. I'm pretty obviously town as well.
Psyche is NOT solidly town, null at best.
Tiershift is scum.
Dry-fit, Maxious, and Kenobi are kinda towny, but not so much.
Cx is kinda scummy.

Can someone who isn't Bulba and didn't spend all of day 1 arguing with Empking over what amounted to nothing weigh in on Emp and someone who isn't Emp weigh in on Bulba? I feel like both of them spent the whole of day 1 arguing and voting each other without giving any reasons why the rest of us would agree, which is a great distancing tactic. I think that if one of them is scum, they probably both are.

Meanwhile, I should have held out for a Tiershift lynch yesterday, and I want one now.

VOTE: Tiershift

[Paschendale]

This does not "set up" anything. I haven't accused either one, just found a connection. If one is town, it would increase the probability of the other being town. Two townies arguing with each other over stupid shit is a lot more likely than one of them being town, catching scum, and being completely unable to sell it to the rest of us.

[Paschendale]

I really doubt Emp and Bulba are both scum. That was a fight that could have easily ended in one of their lynches.

Sure, bussing a buddy for towncred.

[Paschendale]

Empking, why don't you stop waffling and give us some solid reads? With justification.

[Paschendale]

AJ, there are literally 3 sentences in that post of why you think Emp is scum, and most of them revolve around Emp thinking that Tiershift is scum. Tiershift is my top scumread. So... got any better reasons?

My problem with Emp is that I think he and Bulba are scum for exactly the same reasons, but as I said above, I think they are the same alignment. If I'm wrong about Tiershift, then I will definitely want to string one or both of them up. But Emp and Bulba have, while doing the same thing (fighting with each other over nothing and ignore everything else going on yesterday), done it differently. I think Bulba spouted out more bullshit, and would want to lynch there first. I think that's a good way to set up a bus. But I'm certainly less sure of this than of Tiershift being scum.

So, I'm willing, but not eager, to support the wagon, but I don't want it to go down while people are saying that Empking is scummier than Bulba, because I find them equally scummy, and I think they're the same alignment.

[Paschendale]

See? That wasn't so hard, was it?

That's way too many null reads, Emp. But it's not surprising. You didn't contribute anything to day 1's discussions. Of those three scumreads, two are entirely about you and Bulb, and the Kenobi one is just trash. And the townreads are just the easy ones. No thoughts on Cx or Max? Those are the controversial ones, and you skip them entirely. That list is someone trying and failing to make up strategic reads, not genuine reads.

VOTE: Empking

Bulb is still his partner, though. His read list is no better. The only people he calls scum are obvtown me, his target for day 1, and a null/scum read on contentious Cx. There's nothing original or useful there. And contrary to how much he falsely insists the opposite, Bulb never went out on a limb on anyone else. He'll poke a few people with a stick, but always went right back to Emp. And the most recent "lining up lynches" line. I've only ever seen town accused of that, because only town is actually trying to find links between people.

[Paschendale]

I'd far prefer to lynch Tiershift than Emp, but I was trying to do some PoE, and Bulb and Emp as scum partners trying to obfuscate started looking better and better. Unless they're both town and stupid. Which is equally viable.

[Paschendale]

Whiskers, you're basically just asking over and over about a judgement call. Several times, I've lost games by not lynching scum because they looked like they were just noobs. People play that way on purpose to deflect criticism. So many people have alts and hydras that their join date being recent is no indication whatsoever of their ability. I didn't think that Zek was incompetent. His actions looked deliberate to me. And they were deliberately anti-town. A tantrum and a self-hammer is anti-town. He just wasn't playing to his win con.

No, I'm not.
See, and I'll fight you over this! You're not saying he's scum, you said,

he claimed scum

. That's a scummy way of pushing for your lynch.

Forgive me a bit of bravado. No one ever actually claims scum. But when I try to speak in a more reserved fashion, I tend to get mislynched. Which you're apparently trying to do... over my tone. Why are you voting for me? Because Bulba wasn't reading the reasons why I said I suspected him and Emp? Because I wanted to know if anyone other than Bulba or Emp had a reason to vote for either one of them? I don't know what you're seeing, Whiskers.

Oh, and I "bring attention back to Emp and Bulba" after nobody else wants to lynch Tiershift and instead are all voting for Empking, so I, crazily enough, weigh in on what everyone else is talking about. Why do you want to find excuses to scumread me, Whiskers?

Bulba, the meat of what post? And what questions? 449? It contained exactly one question, and that question was answered in the post you were quoting. The PoE I was doing was trying to figure out if Tiershift as your third scumpartner made sense. It didn't terribly, but as I've said all along, I think that you and Emp are the same alignment more than specifically scum or town. There's PoE in that AJ, Whiskers, Dry-Fit, Maxous, and I are all town. Psyche is just gone, but didn't look terribly scummy, and I don't buy most of the pushes on Cx. I reasoned that, despite it not being my top choice to lynch you two, it still might be a good idea.

Look at it this way, if Emp flips town, I'll probably oppose a wagon on you. And I'd rather lynch Tiershift anyway, but all anyone wanted to talk about today was you and Emp. Being a stick in the mud is not pro-town at all, so I'm playing ball. (That, my dear Whiskers, also tends to get me mislynched, despite it being far more pro-town than ignoring the topic of discussion and holding out for a lynch that no one else is interested in)

[Paschendale]

TBH, a lot of why I'm voting you is because Bulbazak actually wasn't a big lump during all of Day 1, but you keep mentioning how he was just as crap as Empking. I'll reread at some point, I s'pose, but that's not true. It was true for a while, but then Bulba actually kind of stepped up and did something, although I'll admit I don't remember what.

Go back and look. He didn't. That's why you don't remember. He made some comments at other players, but most of them still revolved around Empking. I actually, you know, went back and looked before voting or making these accusations. And that's what Bulba actually did. He made some noises around other players, but made no effort at all on anything besides Bulba. His Cx vote at the end of the day was not supported and doesn't absolve him of wasting the entire rest of day 1. They spent the whole day talking about each other, and ignoring every other wagon. Bulba doing this slightly less isn't enough of a difference to me. They were just as bad.

Oh, I should also mention here, because it's as good a time as any: Empking does this. Those of you fighting to lynch Empking should know that, you won't lynch empking, because there's simply not enough, or his scumteam is helping him, or something. You will not lynch him early on, and if you keep trying to, you will just end up wasting a bunch of time trying to lynch him early on. Try lynching him later, when there's more content of his (and general game-content, like flips) to analyze. If he's scum, he'll keep being pretty apparently scum, but if I remember Empking right, he does butterfly eventually as town and can be really useful and good, if you can just play

around

him for the first few days.

And what is "this"? Death tunnel people seemingly chosen at random? Refuse to contribute to what the rest of the players are talking about?

Also, that's not at all why I attacked Tiershift. I attacked him for his shallow reasoning and his unfounded votes. I attacked him for having shit ideas and not helping town find scum. I attacked him for continual anti-town posts. And now he's relying on misreps to attack me.

presuming two players are connected without independent reasons to think both are scum is bad play imo

Which do you think is more likely? One of them found scum right away in this game and has been valiantly fighting, despite not being able to convince the rest of us at all throughout day 1? Or perhaps it was an intentional scum gambit to distance two teammates to setup an easy bus and avoid being entangled with the day 1 lynch? Or maybe it's just two townies with ego yelling at each other?

I don't know about you, but the first option seems a lot less likely than the other two.

[Paschendale]

So, Whiskers, how about we lynch Tiershift instead?

[Paschendale]

I second (or third) the confusion about Dry-Fit. Please expound.

[Paschendale]

Here's your assignment, Cx. Tell me what alignment three players are and why. Any three. Well, three that aren't dead or you. Contribute SOMETHING.

[Paschendale]

Never say "must be" without a flip.

[Paschendale]

I apologize for derailing things when I'm the subject of discussion, but let's be honest, I'm a terrible wagon.

But on to derailing. I'm moving tomorrow and will be V/LA for a bit. Probably until at least the weekend.

So let's say

V/LA until Sunday.

I'll be back by then, assuming that my internet gets hooked up on time.

[Paschendale]

Deadline extension is fine. I still have no internet. I'm at a friend's place right now.

Empking is still a fine lynch. There's been lots of discussion, so regardless of the flip (I still think there's a decent chance he'll flip scum), it will be good information.

Cx's ice keeps getting thinner. Dude is basically not offering support for any wagons. He's equivocating constantly, and offering no theories. He should be on everyone's list.

[Paschendale]

I'm sorry to have to just prod dodge at this point. Getting my new apartment in order is proving to be a nightmare and getting internet set up is taking a lot longer than I thought.

When I return, I promise answers to Cheery's questions of me. Also welcome to the game, Cheery.

[Paschendale]

Okay, Pasch is alive and well. Also apparently possibly poisoned. Shit. Actually, I might not be, and Dashie might not have poisoned anyone. I tracked Dashie (I'm a tracker) night 1 and got no reply from the mod at all. If Dashie's death wouldn't have prevented her from poisoning, then her death shouldn't have prevented me from seeing where she went. So, I think that Dashie didn't get a poison attack off at all.

@Mod: Is this hypothetical about which abilities would function in the result of death correct?

So if I'm right, no one needs to worry about poison.

On Cheery's 582:
1. I really don't think is a mystery why I think Tiershift is scum, but I'll reiterate it for you. Tiershift is essentially playing like a noob. His votes seldom make sense. They're reactionary, minimally thought out, and are full of OMGUS. He continually refuses to back up his ideas and own them as his own, and flip fops around constantly. His play is just really really bad. He's playing like he doesn't have any theories of his own, because he doesn't know how to convincingly present fabricated ones as genuine. He's playing extremely noobscum. The biggest factor is the refusal to own up to his ideas. He doesn't want to be held responsible for the consequences of his votes.
2. I've seen both alignments accuse people of "lining up lynches", but I've never actually seen it materialize into anything but a mislynch. I think it's a stupid buzzword that ought to be ignored. Associating players in theories is perfectly normal, but every theory should be and usually is re-evaluated with every flip. Preemptively accusing someone of not doing that is nonsense.
3. Okay, I guess there is no 3, but how on earth did you glean that I was the best target from that recap post?

[Paschendale]

You sent in a track and got no reply at all? Generally mods always send a response to an investigation, even if it's "X went nowhere.". Why do you suppose the mod would not send you a response to a track request?

I know, that's why I'm asking about it. It's unusual. Why point out the extremely obvious?

Okay pasch, lemme respond to that. The characteristics you have presented, flipflopping and bad play, are part of my town game, bulba knows that and I can back that up with completed games if you want me to.
I don't agree that my votes are full of OMGUS, that I'm not backing up my ideas and that I don't have theories. I also don't see how my play has been newbscum or how I try to avoid responsibility for my votes.
It would be nice if you'd back up your statements.

You have been my primary target for the whole game. I have an ISO mainly full of attacks on your posts. I've been accusing you of these things the whole freaking game. I have certainly not lacked for specific examples or evidence. It's just not in a single post for you.

And if this is your "town game", then you're playing a pro-scum game either way. Anyone trying to help scum win should die. This is not an excuse.

[Paschendale]

Because it seemed unusual to me. I'm not sure how much I buy it. Besides, you never addressed why you decided to track RBD in the first place.

No one asked why. Not until this moment. And I only brought it up because someone mentioned the poison. The kicker is that Espionage says that he sent me a result PM, but I never got it, it's entirely possible that my claim was a complete waste. Clearly, this is something that someone would make up for no reasons.

I tracked Dashie because I don't like to get too comfortable about my townreads. Having a second opinion on them helps me catch my own mistakes. And as it turns out, it was a good thing. I had Dashie as null/town on day 1, and was wrong about that. And it'll be doubly fortunate that, if she did target someone, that person is likely confirmed town. I bet that information will help narrow down our lynch pool pretty well today and help us get a scum.

[Paschendale]

Freaking hell... Moving has scrambled my brains completely. I've forgotten half of what's going on in all my games. I've only ever seen poisoner as a scum role, not a town one. I'm going to have to reread so much... >_<

Either way, yes. Let's lynch Tier. Or if not, how about someone come up with an actual better idea? There seems to be no other one besides biting me in the hand while I'm trying to feed this town, and the Empking wagon is not inspiring.

[Paschendale]

Mod sent me new results. Dashie didn't poison anyone.

Yes, Cheery is apparently still calling me scum. And it seems to basically be a chainsaw of Tiershift.

[Paschendale]

My claim was purely my own stupidity and confusion. I have results from the mod now. Dashie didn't poison anyone. Meaning that tracking results come in before kills. My assertion that Dashie targeting someone would clear them as down was a result of forgetting that Dashie was town because Poisoner is usually a scum role. My being gone for a while coupled with the stress of moving had caused me to forget some details of the game from day 1.

All that aside, let's lynch TierShift. He's been on my radar since the beginning. He could be lumped in with Kenobi and Zekrom, as the three of them constitute the clearly inexperienced bloc of the game, but they're all unique. Zek was an idiot and stupidly killed himself, playing against his win con. Ken has been learning from everything going on in the game and is rebounding his efforts. TierShift is consistently accomplishing nothing. He claims that this is his town game, but if your town game is indistinguishable from a really bad scum play, then you need a lot of practice. Tier has far more often been a source of confusion than of clarity, and has been jumping on wagons that he even admits he didn't have much faith in. Playing like scum doesn't absolve you just because you hang a lampshade on it.

Oh, and if there's a doc, please keep me alive tonight.

[Paschendale]

<< Displeased

[Paschendale]

Props to whoever protected me (or whoever you protected) last night. I tracked CX. He went nowhere.

Now, CAN WE PLEASE LYNCH TIERSHIFT!?

VOTE: Tiershift

[Paschendale]

So where were we? More votes on Tiershift, Bulb and I actually seeing eye to eye, there's more to Whiskers than meets the eye, and neither of us really care about Whiskers winning as a third party unless it makes us lose.

[Paschendale]

No, I just don't care. You're scum. I don't need to satisfy you in any way.

Whiskers, Cheery, Bulba, let's sort this out and lynch us a scum.

[Paschendale]

Ask me again after the game is over, Tiershift. Then I'll explain my tracking targets to you.

In the meantime, I agree with Bulba. I'd like to hear more about Whiskers' role.

I'd also like to hear some conclusions from Dry-Fit and Max. DF: Why are you so dead set on voting Max? Who else might you vote for and why? Max: What do you have to say in your defense? Give more on why you're voting Bulba? Do you think Tier is scum? If so, what do you think of his current vote on Bulba?

[Paschendale]

I think he can conf himself by tracking someone who went somewhere? He's then confirmed to that person and we lynch that person before pasch in all circumstances if that person confirms pasch to be a tracker.

Unless someone is going as far as to suggest a scum tracker *cough*occam's razor lol*cough*

There's a decent chance that anyone I see using an ability is actually town, rather than scum making a kill or using an ability. Tier right here is trying to use me as a pro-scum role cop to get rid of town PRs. Obviously, if I track someone and the person they visit is dead the next morning, that's a decent guilty result. But Tier isn't making any differentiation. He's just hoping I'll out a doc or something like that.

@Dry-Fit: How does Max's above post fit in with your theory?

[Paschendale]

See, this is why I like playing with you, Whiskers.

One thing, though. If you do a full claim, and your win con doesn't exclude town from winning, we won't lynch you and will treat you as just a member of the town. If, however, you don't, then we have to assume that you winning makes us lose, and we'll have to lynch you. Actually, I don't so much care about your abilities, I care about your allegiance. What's your win con?

[Paschendale]

Max is starting to make sense to me about Cheery. Cheery's arguments are very tunnel-y and there's a great deal of spinning facts to match the predetermined conclusion.

[Paschendale]

If there is a doctor that protected pasch, well just as well pasch's team decided to no kill gambit.

I'm still not seeing the supposed no kill gambit.

Cheery thinks that me and my scumteam didn't kill last night in order to make it look like I was protected, despite there being no doc, in order to semi-confirm me as town. This despite the fact that most people were townreading me already and I clearly wasn't in need of this boost. So... the main thing that Cheery's idea lacks is any motive whatsoever. At best, it's a big dose of WINFOM. At worst, it's a scummy attempt to kill a town PR. But it's got this such glaring flaw that it makes me wonder why Cheery is pursuing it. That Tiershift (who is scum) is latching onto it so hard makes me think they're in on it together. They really want me dead. See below.

Pasch, if you don't track whiskers tonight I'll take it as a scumclaim.

Tier is still trying to get me to find other PRs, getting information that is more helpful to the scum team. He sees that Whiskers is working with town, and wants to eliminate the threat, because even if a third party role doesn't conflict with town, it certainly conflicts with scum.

Do we lynch Cheery or Tier today?

[Paschendale]

so you think there is a legit possibility that Whiskers is a serial killer.
you are being very passive about it considering the circumstances.

I'm trying to balance out the possibilities instead of just charging in blindly. If we mess up, we could end up in Mylo or Lylo. Normally, I'd be all up for eliminating a NK, but we're still not sure that Whiskers is a SK, just a third party. That's why I want to know her wincon so bad, so I can make the best decision possible. Personally, I don't even think we should end the day until we know this bit of information. The only reason we should be lynching Whiskers is if we can't find scum at deadline, or if she refuses to cooperate.

Agreed 100%.

At best, it's a big dose of WINFOM.

Only $19.99!

Thanks, Whiskers.

[Paschendale]

VOTE: Whiskers

Nothing here makes me trust that you won't make us lose, and that is the one answer we really wanted from you.

[Paschendale]

I hate rule 6a.

Tell me whether you meeting your win con ends the game in your next post, Whiskers, or you won't live through this day.

[Paschendale]

I hate rule 6a.

Tell me whether you meeting your win con ends the game in your next post, Whiskers, or you won't live through this day.

This post was entirely too vague. I meant that vote. The only reason I'm not fixing it is to give you one last chance. If you meeting whatever your win con is prevents me from winning, I want to know right now. Otherwise, there's a lot of us and only one of you and we'll kill you.

[Paschendale]

And I should trust you and not lynch you... why? The only benefit to you claiming at all is to cause confusion. You would lie, but you didn't. You avoiding saying anything. So now there's even less reason to trust you.

Unvote
Vote: Whiskers

Give me a reason. Or you can just die.

[Paschendale]

Whiskers could have been cooperative. Whiskers could have not mentioned anything. The only result of this claim was to cause confusion. He's not giving us any useful information to hunt scum. He's doing nothing but turning himself into a liability. This is no different than someone who refuses to do anything but self-vote. It only hurts. It doesn't help. Why do you trust him?

[Paschendale]

Max, Bulb has been extremely town today. You're barking up the wrong tree.

If town thinks that Whiskers is more of an asset than a liability (a position I do not agree with), then let's just lynch TierShift today.

[Paschendale]

Hey guys, stuff has been hectic the past week. My gf's 21st, and I slipped down a tile staircase at work so I've been in quite a bit of pain. However I am back now and will update today.

Take care of yourself, buddy.

[Paschendale]

So Whiskers, can I interest you in a tiershift lynch yet? It's rather obvious that we're getting close to an endgame for the mafia... we've gone 2 lynches with no success and they've gotten a free kill. Given a third party as well, and the fact that Coney Island games do generally have at least three mafia members, we should at least suspect that we need a mafia lynch.

Which is why it is even WORSE that people want Whiskers today. That, at the end of the day, is still a win for the mafia fraction because it just is one less person towards the 50/50 Town/mafia ratio wincon. Lynching a third party player at this point over trying to get scum hung is strictly anti-town due to the fact that we gain no ground against the scum team. We can't afford to not lynch scum at this point in the game.

That's a good point. I mostly wanted to kill Whiskers for being difficult. Let's lynch a scum and let Whiskers simmer. Tier is 100% the most likely scum candidate.

I don't have a kill.

There, you happy?

now

I'm "guaranteeing to avoid as nightkill."

@AJ: I was on Tiershift's wagon before pasche decided we should 1v1. I have no problem going back, although perhaps you should consider he's one of the few players who

hasn't

suggesting lynching me. (Because in the post where you say, "let's lynch Tier!" you also say, "voting whiskers is antitown!")

I didn't 1v1 you. I'm obviously town and anyone voting for me is either not town or morbidly stupid. This argument between us was never putting my neck on the line.

I've done a bit of rereading. I don't see bulb and pasch as scum together, seeing how bulb handled pasch's claim. Pasch is probably town anyway, I see now.
It still doesn't look like a genuine scumread to me and the way how this is his only argument for me-scum versus all the others he has given for me-town really stinks.
Plus, the way in which he didn't really doubt pasch's claim at any moment, but just acted a little bit surprised and then went along doesn't really look like a town reaction to someone claiming, more like scum who know the claim to be true.

Uuuugggghhh.... Seriously, does Tiershift have any ideas of his own? He just keeps shifting among other people's ideas, looking for the safe play. This is not a genuine theory from him. It's just another attempt to find a safe lynch.

bulba, the thing is until he hardclaims, and his role is proven, we don't know if he's an anti-town third-party or not. Heck, he could even be mafia

He could even be a VT trying to draw kills. I'm kind of tired of arguing about it. Let's just lynch scum and let third parties simmer.

Unvote
Vote: Tiershift

Dry and Max, do you think that Max and Bulb, respectively, are really more likely scum than TierShift? Please expound if you do.

[Paschendale]

Nice tantrum, Whiskers. There's very little truth in it, but it's got all kinds of anger. It's cute, though. You just keep attributing motivations to me that I don't really have. My actions aren't deceptive or malicious, but if you proclaim that I'm only doing them because I'm deceptive and malicious, it must make sense!

1. You're difficult because you're holding out information. You're refusing to help us win and then getting angry when we want to punish you for it. You're a liability.

2. Tiershift has been trying to get me to track people and reveal them "in order to clear myself" all day. He's said nothing about finding scum by tracking them, just finding powers. The only people who can find out that someone has powers and not care what their alignment is are scum. Tier's intent is not to find scum, it's for me to reveal that people have powers.

3. Lynching people who are acting like scum is not a policy lynch. You know this. Stop lying.

4. I didn't say that we should quicklynch you, only what the results of such an action would be. This is a perfect example of you making up motivations for me that aren't really there. When I advocate for something, I do so in black and white. The only thing I was implying in that statement was that pursuing it would be dangerous for scum, since it would out them. I was trying to save you, not kill you.

5. I have no idea what your points are about post 85. They're disjointed and make no sense. But you seem to have a problem with my tendency to analyze all sides of a situation and not just always assume that I'm right. Accounting for the possibility that I could be wrong seems to piss you off. Covering multiple bases is apparently a sucmtell for you. You really are trying to sabotage scumhunting, aren't you?

6. The rest of this is mainly just nonsensical rambling because I change my mind as new things happen. And apparently because I have changed my mind about some players, but not about Tiershift. Sorry if he keeps doing things make him look like scum while others, like Bulba, have turned around. That is NOT contradiction. People do different things, and how they do it is important, too.

7. Oh, and the only "ass kissing" I did towards you was being friendly because of our previous games. None of it had anything to do with ideas about your alignment in this game.

I don't know why you're so mad, Whiskers, but your whole rant starts with "Pasch is so scummy!!" and then makes misreps, outright lies, and points that you literally retract with the next sentence. You clearly haven't got evidence to back up your positions. But even if you did, it's not a compelling case. You don't point out how my vote on Zek is at all scum motivated rather than simply being wrong, you don't point out how anyone else's vote on him was more legit, you don't give any scum motivation for my wanting to lynch Tiershift, and you don't give any scum motivation for my wanting to lynch you or my not pushing it when no one else wanted to go with it. You're clearly angry about things, but despite the fact that your whole analysis starts with a predetermined conclusion, none of your points actually support that conclusion. I get that you're mad. I'm pushing you and it's clearly pissing you off. You incorrectly think that Tiershift isn't scum and that's pissing you off, too. But ranting about it isn't going to help.

[Paschendale]

So here's a theory I've been having.

Scum may only have odd-night kills. SK and groupscum. The poisoner is there to provide even night kills so we take longer to catch on to things. Thoughts?

Yes Pasch I think Max is more likely to be scum. I've pretty much given up on convincing anyone of that though.

That would be a very strange mechanic. I don't think we have enough information to account for the extra shot on night 1. And I don't think that speculating on it is going to get us anywhere. With the information we have, we should most likely assume that Whiskers has a kill, but the consensus today is not to kill Whiskers. So we're trying to kill a scum. If you think you know who should be lynched, YOU SHOULD BE ARGUING FOR IT WITH ALL YOUR MIGHT. If you just park your vote on someone, refusing to join the major wagons, and not fighting for your own favorite lynch, your vote is not going to help lynch scum. That is going to make it harder for town to choose correctly today.

And, I'm not being a douche here, either: if you're that certain that TS is scum, why haven't you been treating him as flipped, looking for his scumbuddies?

why hasn't cheery?

because I don't believe TS is scum?

I believe I've also already stated that it's you out of you, aj & bulba as pasch's partners due to PoE.

PoE without me actually flipping? Bad doggie! *smacks you on the nose with a newspaper*

But seriously, do you have any notions of who is scum that doesn't rely on being my buddy? Cuz that'll come back to bite you if you don't.

[Paschendale]

Also, pasche, you didn't answer my question. Who are TS's partners?

I've already told you that I don't speculate on connections without a flip. If you want to ask who else I think is scum, that's different, but those will be for independent reasons unrelated to Tiershift. You don't seem to have any scum suspects at all. You're just mad at me for pushing you.

Kenobi, explain this "vibe". Ask me some questions. Follow something besides an unexplainable gut feeling. Give me the opportunity to convince you to vote for an actual scum instead of me.

[Paschendale]

Pasche... Going after Whiskers, as I've stated already, is not the best move today. The town needs to lynch scum, not third party.

My vote is on Tiershift. Whiskers can wait (though I wouldn't exclude the possibility that Whiskers is scum and not third party).

[Paschendale]

Also, pasche, you didn't answer my question. Who are TS's partners?

I've already told you that I don't speculate on connections without a flip. If you want to ask who else I think is scum, that's different, but those will be for independent reasons unrelated to Tiershift. You don't seem to have any scum suspects at all.

Please explain about half of your day one posts of not making connections.

HOLY CRAP I'M SOMETIMES INCONSISTENT!! I MUST BE LYING SCUM!!

No seriously, day 1 is different, and when people are leaping so hard to defend each other in such awful ways, they should be admonished for it. When you have real information, you should use the real information and not descend back to day 1 guessing. That's what speculating about partners right now would be. If you can't tell the difference, then you have some serious problems on your hands.

cx not-posting is weird.

I don't think its weird.

No, it's not weird. Which is a bad thing. You're still barely contributing.

[Paschendale]

I don't 'truly suspect' you, I would prefer cheery, bulb or whiskers.

"not trying to get people to vote bulba" - I was trying the entire day to get people to vote cheery dog. Multiple times.

"it's weak" - it's a deadline compromise lynch between two of my stated town reads. I chose to vote the weaker town-read.

are you calling me scummy for this or what?
i'm harping on here because #947 is looking like

faux scumhunting

because you *know* why I'm voting you and not bulb.

I really don't think Bulb is scum. Cheery might be. Whiskers is a toss up. Cx is lurking like a pro and I hate lurker lynches, but he'll ratchet up to the top of a PoE list when we get there. My read on Kenobi keeps flip flopping. So, I think scum is in (Tiershift, Cheery, Whiskers, Cx, and Kenobi).

I'm not sure why Pasch is getting so incensed about things, though. Your earlier play was a lot more level-headed.

Cheery is just annoying me. People who I think are town going after me with misreps and fallacies tends to piss me off.

[Paschendale]

Watchers are tough because if nothing happened there... "No one visited Pasche" is essentially "Did he actually have a role?". 1-shot watcher in a game with a tracker/poisoner is also a rather odd set design, and would max out town's PR list with two masons. In all honesty, it was very dangerous to not use the shot last night given how close we could've been to MyLo today (with revelation of ambiguous third party wincons).

In my mind, either Tiershift seriously misplayed his own role or he's lying.

I'm leaning towards the latter.

[Paschendale]

So in the meantime, does anybody want to entertain the possibility that, if TS flips town, the much-stronger, unlimited-shot role that Pasche claims might be a fakeclaim, instead?

Pretty dangerous to fakeclaim with actual results. I would have needed an actual way to know that Dashie hadn't poisoned someone. Unless I really am a tracker, I really couldn't know for sure. If someone had died last night from Dashie's poison, which I wouldn't have known for certain if anyone was poisoned, then I would be toast. You really think I would put out that much information in a situation where I had no need at all to claim?

Also these are my reads. They're unchanged from the previous page.

I really don't think Bulb is scum. Cheery might be. Whiskers is a toss up. Cx is lurking like a pro and I hate lurker lynches, but he'll ratchet up to the top of a PoE list when we get there. My read on Kenobi keeps flip flopping. So, I think scum is in (Tiershift, Cheery, Whiskers, Cx, and Kenobi).

[Paschendale]

So Tier you didn't watch me even though I was obvious mason to you?

My strongest scumread is Maxous as I've been saying. Kenobi is also a scumread, especially if Tiershift flips scum.

My strongest townread is Bulba I guess I'm doubting my Pasch townread because so many people suspect him. Makes me feel like I'm missing something.

Only Cheery really suspects me now. Expound on your Kenobi/Tiershift connection. I've had similar thoughts, but I wanna hear yours.

[Paschendale]

Also,

I really don't think Bulb is scum. Cheery might be. Whiskers is a toss up. Cx is lurking like a pro and I hate lurker lynches, but he'll ratchet up to the top of a PoE list when we get there. My read on Kenobi keeps flip flopping. So, I think scum is in (Tiershift, Cheery, Whiskers, Cx, and Kenobi).

There is one, clear, obvious choice of who to track here. I hope you can make that decision correctly.

I imagine we won't reach the same conclusion, but I definitely have someone in mind.

[Paschendale]

I was definitely fooled. I probably would have spent the whole game chasing the less experienced players for their clumsiness. But Whiskers, why did you do that?