Mini 1524: Olympian Gods Mafia - Game Over

[havingfitz]

havingfitz replaces ArcAngel9.
Welcome!

Hi.

UNVOTE:

55 pages...fcuk! I'll try to get caught up before I'm prodded.

[havingfitz]

Up through page 15. Hope to be caught up sometime this afternoon.

[havingfitz]

OK…read through the first 8 pages while commuting and didn’t write any thoughts down.  Some opinions I have atm are:
 
Suspicions towards Mala and MattP
 
Town reads on Wisdom, GG, mollie….
 
Everyone else tbd.
 
Not sure I saw the Nacho defensive thing as I was catching up so holding it against others for not seeing it seems off.
 
Page 10…like the ooba schtick.  Not the vote on Arc.  More defensive discussion.  zzzzzzzzzzzz 
 
Like shos’ Post 295.  saying things I’ve been thinking. 
 
mollie …what is “hodor?”
 
Post 316 and Post 318 feel like tag teaming shos (who I lean town on) thereby solidifying earlier suspicions ^.
 
Just finished page 16 and glossed over it quickly….with 44 pages to go still I think the glossing over is going to be more predominant and rushed…..
 
Not caring for the push on shos who I am town reading.  Wisdom is making me question my town read on him.  Up to page 18.
 
Not liking Wisdom’s read in Post 471. 
 
@Desp… if you think mollie is scum with penguin, why leave the larger penguin wagon for a lone vote on mollie?
 
The reasoning for Whiskers being scum has eluded me and yet shos has just placed him at 4 votes.   That wagon might need to be a re-read.
 
To page 25…..uggggggh.
 
Didn’t care for mollie’s Post 683. 
 
Not caring so much for Mirari….
 
Note to self:  Go back and read shos’ Post 770 (cause it ain’t happenin in the middle of a 60 page catch up)
 
Don’t care for Nacho’s Post 887 and Post 888.  TBD shifting towards suspicion.
 
Page 40!  Feeling a bit better about Wisdom again.
 
Like penguin’s Post 992. 
 
Really glossing over now….just trying to get to the end without missing anything major. 
 
@shos…where are you located…Germany?
 
@penguin… why is Nacho town?  Answered later here… not sure I agree.
 
Zoom zoom….
 
@penguin… I find your thoughts wrt Matt a bit of a negative towards you.
 
Note to self:  Go back and read Mirari’s Post 1359.
 
I apparently completely glossed over discussions on chicken fcuking and peanut butter. 
 
Like Wisdom’s Post 1409. 
 
GG…why does MattP claiming for no reason townify your read on him?  Also…I do not believe Matt’s claim.
 
Surprise surprise…Mala believes Matt’s claim.
 
Annnnd Whiskers is a neighbor too.  WTF?  And Whiskers…GG is referring to being “protected” from scum neighborizors….not from neighborizing in general which he referred to as being “immune” to.
 
Post 1472 seems a little rolefishy.  “Hey everyone with a PR…does your role fit your flavor?”  First shos ding.
 
Yes!  Caught up.  For a few seconds at least….ffs.
 
 
Here’s where I’m at atm:
 
Town:
shos, GG, Wisdom
 
Townish:
ooba, Desp
 
idk:
mollie, Whiskers
 
Suspicions towards:
Nacho, Mirari
 
Suspect:
Matt and Mala
 
Up for either of them.   I’ll
 
VOTE: Malakittens
 
for now unless the Matt claim progresses southward or his wagon builds up.

[havingfitz]

^ L-2 I believe.

[havingfitz]

Mala...I don't have anything much better than gut, PoE and associative tells based on your interactions with those I feel are most likely town and those I have suspicions towards.  I'm sure I could be more exact if I had been in the game from the start but at 60+ pages...that's the best I can do out of all the info I looked over this morning.
 
penguin...my bad...I intended to put you in the "idk" (aka null...tbd?) category.  Over my catchup you've leaned both ways for me at times so I'm putting you in the middle for now.
 
@ Mirari...did Matt say that was his motivation?  I know a few people have asked him why but I can't recall if he answered (and if he said to mess with scum).

[havingfitz]

Because Shos is scum, Wisdom is town, Mala is town,

and a neighborizer won't be roleblocked or nightkilled but lends credence to my beliefs?

And if town...now frees scum up to look elsewhere.


@Mala -> pray tell Matt.

[havingfitz]

I'm a huge threat to scum and a huge town power favor.

Between scum...the lovers you mention...and at least 2 neighborizors....that's a shitload of players. What does you telling us someone is in a QT accomplish? Unless someone denies it and you catch them....but then again they might just not want to be outed. So your PR isn't that "huge" IMO.

However...
UNVOTE:
...before I go to bed to increase odds the day doesn't end while I'm asleep. I'd like to hear more thoughts on the QT claim.

[havingfitz]

OK...so I kind of believe Mala's claim.  I think that is perhaps the worst crumb I've ever seen but I believe her nonetheless.  Wisdom's point about GG having a role that affects the ability to form QTs coupled with the unusual nature (IMO) of a QT cop seems reasonable.  If that is a fakeclaim Mala deserves to live a while just for that alone.  Also...I reserve the right to change my mind on Mala at any time

That said...there was a reason I started my catch up post yesterday saying I suspected Mala and Matt.  I gave my reason for suspecting Mala already.  Since no one asked me why I suspected Matt...here 'tis.

When I opened the thread up yesterday I looked at the last page first just to see if anything immediately of interest had happened (or to see if anything had been directed towards me) and I saw that Matt had claimed Neighborizor.  WTF?  I then proceeded to start my catch up.  I will also say at this point I did not realize there had been another neighborizor claim but regardless...I started my catch up with the preconception that Matt was scum (and therefore based on their interations...Mala was too).  The reason I had that preconception was:

I'm Hermes.  I'm a Neighborizor. 

No restriction other than the fact the person I select N1 doesn't join my QT till N2.  I can have as many as I like (@ 1 per night).  Not sure if they get notified N1 that they were neighborized or not.  I assume not. 

Why am I claiming?  Because my role is pretty much a direct counter of Matt's (vice Whisker's version of Neighborizor) and I think it's a pretty useless role anyway.  I absolutely hate the Neighborizor PR.  But when it's in ~direct conflict with another player's claim....maybe it's not so bad.

VOTE: MattP

Why didn't I vote Matt immediately?  Because I wanted to finish my catch up first to see if there was anything else I needed to consider and that's when I saw Whisker's claim and was like...Whah?  I still suspected Mala and someone (shos?) pointed out that if they were both scum..Mala and Matt...a scum neighborizor was probably better to keep around on the chance mala was something stronger.  Her claim changed that for me hence my vote now.

So there you have it.  Discuss.

[havingfitz]

^ I would think the more potential QTs there are the more likely there is a "QT cop"....no? And if you are wrong about Matt and/or Mala...which would you rather it be?

[havingfitz]

No.

Also...when Mala made her claim she didn't know there would be a 3rd neighborizor claim...is more useless than she knew.

[havingfitz]

^ the no was wrt GGs compulsive question. Too many ninjas.

[havingfitz]

...is more useless than she knew.

EBWOP due to $&$@! auto word....

....i.e. more useless than she knew.

[havingfitz]

Who knows. His is the only one that has one though. Maybe just taking a chance with a little added uniqueness to make it more believable.

[havingfitz]

If there are three town neighborizors in this game I'm going to be sad.

[havingfitz]

[quote="In post 1937, shos"]IM DRUNK AND IT STILL MAKES NO SENSE AT ALL.[/quote]
That's usually how it works.

Again same question to you as I had for Fitz.

What question to me?

'm no longer townreading matt. I think I already said this, actually.

Then why would you have issue with people condemning him? What is he suspected of that Whiskers is getting a pass on?

I still don't see why everyone is condemming Matt, but not Whiskers.

[havingfitz]

Quoting fail...ish.

[havingfitz]

Why do people have to suspect Matt and Whiskers together? Why do Matt suspicions have to equate to Whisker suspicions?

P.edit.....ok

[havingfitz]

Oh...thought the p.edit preview was from Mala to me. Disregard....

[havingfitz]

Wisdom...are you saying you do not think Whiskers is a Neighborizor at all or that somehow the "lie" you caught her in makes her a scum neighborizor?

[havingfitz]

Whiskers...do you neighborize N1 and get to talk D2?

[havingfitz]

Mirari, why aren't you and ooba doing anything about your

mutual conftown status

?

Huh? Is this sarcasm or equally likely, did I miss something?

[havingfitz]

I'm Hermes. I'm a Neighborizor.

No restriction other than the fact the person I select N1 doesn't join my QT till N2. I can have as many as I like (@ 1 per night). Not sure if they get notified N1 that they were neighborized or not. I assume not.

What more did you want than this Wisdom? If I neighborize someone N1 I don't actually get to chat with them until the following night. I can have as many as I want so I assume if I neighborize someone N2...I can talk to them N3. Etc. No limit. Also...my QT already exists. I can't post in it during the day but N1 I can use it...to talk to myself if I wanted...until someone joins the following night. Assuming I neighborize. I'm really not a big fan so don't care if I do or not.

[havingfitz]

It doesn't give directions. It says as the messenger god, I can contact the other gods different ways. Each night, I can select a player to neighborize and add to my QT. They are added to the QT the following night.

I assume I notify the mod via PM or just state who I want to neighborize within my QT....it doesn't specify.

[havingfitz]

and become a bona-fide mason team

I do not know your alignment.

Yes Mirari...I already have a QT that I can visit (but not post in until night).

[havingfitz]

Matt...that monster case on Desperado is a load of crap. I think fuck and asshole are pretty common for him and your first quote of him from post 1098 he him asking someone else not to be so vulgar. How is that bad?

[havingfitz]

I'm finding it a challenge to keep up. I'm considering sheeping GG since he's saying most of the stuff I'm thinking anyway. TBD.

[havingfitz]

Still not liking the Matt claim and how he has completely ignored comments made towards him (ie in mine and GG's cases/suspicions on him). His last week's effort during his mini wagon buildup has been very poor IMO. I'll chill there by myself for now and if his wagon stays nowhere I'll move to ika.

[havingfitz]

As I try to catch up/keep head above water I note we're still on D1 and Wisdom has 700 posts. 28 pages of content all on his own.

Fock.

[havingfitz]

Not sure how you mean this.

As an expression of frustration.

[havingfitz]

I'm not sure how the setup spec wrt Virgins does us any good.

Is there an accepted thought on what the neighborizors should do? Ex neighborize each other? We should maximize Mala's odds of getting g a good result.

Oopa.....why me?

I'm about ~25 pages behind. Work school holiday stuff kicking my arse. Not quitting or going v/LA (yet).

[havingfitz]

@ Mirari

wrt Post 2009...why am I sketchy?
 

@ Whiskers

wrt Post 2071...why at the Neighborizors all being viewed as anti-town roles? 
Because Mala ~can see they have a QT and QT automatically = anti-town?  Or some other reason?
 
@ Desp wrt Post 2134...ok. 
 
Kind of don't like Whisker's posts at the top of page 88 that question the utility of a QT cop.  Not that it's wrong to think it out...but she goes on a bit more than I think is necessary.
 

@ Whiskers

wrt Post 2197...that's wrong.  A town QT cop is more valuable than a scum QT cop because wtf would scum care who the neighbors were and who they might have neighbored?  Whereas a town QT cop (as has been mentioned several times already iirc) can catch people in a lie.  Unless every person on the scum team has claimed neighbor...then there are players out there who would come back to a town QT cop investigation has having a posivive result...and have some explaining to do.  I will probably neighbor but it will only be on other neighbors.  I think it is in our best interest to minimize the number of players who are claimed to be in QTs to maximize Mala's chance (if telling the truth) of finding someone with a QT who didn't fess up to it.  Your inability to see this is concerning.
 
@ Desp wrt Post 2312...very minimal paraphrasing.  Just enough to make me feel like I wasn't breaking a rule.
 
Not sharing shos' high praise of ooba's bucket theory.
 
Why would there be a scum virgin?  Since scum (IMO) would have a QT to begin with...to say a scum couldn't be neighborized because they were a virgin would be giving them an inordinate amount of town cred.  Though...if the QT Cop is legit and decided to investigate a virgin (which is only GG atm...correct?) and the virgin had a QT...that would be a pretty bad result for the ~virgin.

OK...read up again...for the moment.  I'm sure I'll be several pages behind again before I know it.
 
Not a fan of ika's posting.
 
VOTE: ika
 
I still have a hard time believing there are three town neighborizors and if I had to lean towards one being scum...it's still be Matt.  But not by much.
 
I do not plan on neighborizing any of the unknowns.

[havingfitz]

But am still happy with my scum team call out of {Grim, fitz, Penguin}

Oopa.....why me?

[havingfitz]

^ nice observation...

[havingfitz]

Wanted to see how the newguy from othersite reacts. Didnt get what i seeked

And answered...

[havingfitz]

This post is seriously lacking in anything interesting.

That is not true. It gave opinion. It gave information into my plans for neighborizing N1. It asked questions I wanted answers to which I could care less if you were interested in the information I was requesting.

Are you making a weak attempt to tarnish me? What was the purpose of your post?

*******************************

OK ooba. So no real reason. Just PoE and associations based on who you think is town? Pretty shit for Day 1 IMO. Any suspicions on me not based on PoE and the subsequent associations? Looking through your ISO....I don't find any real reasons that you suspect penguin either. You even call Matt out for being "disingenuous" in his suspicions towards penguin...but now Matt is someone you wouldn't lynch.

I'm content with my ika vote. Would switch to Matt. Would vote Nacho over a no lynch. Probably wouldn't vote anyone else. Mirari has made enough of an effort since my earlier concerns on that slot to make me not interested in seeing her lynched today.

[havingfitz]

So you would prefer a no-lynch over penguin?

I don't think I would prefer a no lynch over anyone. That would be a ridiculous waste in a D1 this size. I just wouldn't be interested in supporting it and I'm sure (or assume at least) there are others who would be more interested in lynching penguin if it came down to her or a NL.

So to answer your question again....no. But I wouldn't want to be a part of it.

[havingfitz]

Here....on vacation at the moment (until the 6th) so a bit distracted. Staying caught up for the most part on the reading....easier now with wisdom gone.

Pre-lynch suspicions towards Matt (Titus) and ika still remain. Still mulling over next step...no rush.

[havingfitz]

Whiskers are you goin to ignore my question for the third time in a row?

Did you use your ability n1? If so who?

Oh, you're finally going to ask it?

Or did you mean when you asked all of the neighborizers in 2730? Sorry, I wasn't ignoring you, per se: I figured that I didn't answer you would have been answer enough. To clarify,

no, i submitted a No Action.

Why not? Why not use it on one of the other neighborizors to confirm your role or Grimgrove to confirm his? Or Mala? Why none at all

[havingfitz]

Back from v/LA. Catching up asap.

[havingfitz]

OK...catching up from vacation.  Please pardon the absence. 
 

Spoiler: D2/post v/LA catch up

Starting from my Post 2783:
 
Titus.... why did you ask if investigations resolve before or after QT Cop results?  What does that info tell you today?
 

Mod...would a neighborization attempt on Wisdom have been successful

....assuming from the descriptions of what an ascetic is that the answer is no.  If that is the case...coupled with GG saying he is a virgin that cannot be targeted...what the hell good is a QT cop?  Three players have acknowledged that already have QTs (at least I assume all the neighbors do) and now we have at least 2...who would have us believe they are town (confirmed Wisdom and TBD GG/Eagle)....so how are we supposed to accept any results from Mala?  Plus the delayed aspect makes it both more worthless AND sets up the potential for scum trying to drag out their existence.  And I too do not like the overreaction wrt the fairly benign IMO comments Whiskers made towards mollie. 
 
I was going to comment on the fact that Wisdom was killed vice Mala but Mala's Post 2847 comments cover that (regardless of her alignment).
 
Mala.... how can you say you are against an ika lynch, that you would have preferred to see Desperado lynched yesterday and then say you like a post from Desperado where he votes ika?  All this in the same post.  WTF?
 
Mala.... wrt to why I neighborized Matt/Titus:  I stated yesterday I was not going to neighborize any of the unknowns.  That left me with you, Whiskers, Matt and GG iirc as options to keep your field of "investigations" as large as possible.  Which you seemed to get in Post 2741.      I didn't target you because if you were telling the truth...I saw you as a decent N1 target.  I didn't want to waste my target on GG in case he was telling the truth, though I did consider it to test his claim (and I had hoped one of the other neighborizors would have ).  That left me the other two neighborizors and it was a toss up for me between them.  And I wasn't concerned whether my target was potentially scum, or not.   Which you show a similar mindset in Post 2852.  So I'm not sure why you are asking me this question to begin with when the answer seems obvious and you seem to be thinking the same way..... :IGMEOU:
 
Whiskers....Nacho.  I would not have killed wisdom because he was all over the place IMO and his EXTREME overposting only served to make reading the game more difficult.  I.e. good for scum.
 
I like Nacho's posts 2809 and 2810 

@Nacho...

why do you think Mala is mostly town?  You acknowledge her claim is iffy but we should wait a day for ~investigation results and you point out that her Whiskers vote is bad.  So what makes her town?  Are you in a lot of games at the moment?
 
Nacho.... my reads at this point in my catch up are suspicious still towards ika and Titus...though Titus's vote on ika has me doubting my ika read (or a bus is in effect).  Feeling a little better about Whiskers and a bit worse about Mala.  I'm a bit less suspect of you atm.  Why are you voting me and pushing others to do so?
 
Expanding on the whole set up spec of there being 3 neighborizors and 3 roles that can't be neighborized...why can't there be 3 investigative roles (Mala, Wisdom, and TBD/or GG?).  With one scum in each of those?  Though Eagle's weak doc kind of works as an investigative role....which doesn't seem right to have it be a ~virgin too.   Grrrrr  I really liked GG's posting D1 but the fact his role falls into two groups (un-neighborizable and ~investigative) concerns me.
 
OK...shos is more clearly saying what I am thinking at the moment.  shos's Post 2830 (aside from saying titus' entrance is legit?) makes my suspicions towards Titus a bit firmer.  I forgot Titus had investigated Wisdom.  Convenient.
 
shos.... I believe Mala is an investigative role.  Probably even a QT cop.  I do not think she is confirmed town.
 
Wrt Whisker's Post 2838...still not sure why you didn't neighborize anyone (ex the list I provide to Mala earlier in this post).  Note...OK, you answer this in  post 2845 but I would think a GG target might have been nice.  But ok.
 
shos....I targetted the Matt player slot (as acknowledged at the start of the day by Titus).
 
Titus....possibly 1.  And in that order of suspicion.  Mala atm because of her claim...and her play.  The overreactions...the useless question of me regarding my targetting of Titus...her switch to voting me later (which I am aware of at this point and will comment on later).
 
Nacho.... why vote havingfitz?
 
OK...so GG ~protected Mala N1.  Bleh.
 
I am of the mindset that Whiskers is when she talks about Mala in Post 2896.
 
Wrt ika's Eagle vote...I'm not as concerned about having a "weak doc" in a God themed game as I am having a role that falls in two buckets of set up spec....virgins and investigators.  My opinion on Eagle is still tbd but if it winds up back at a town read this vote would reflect poorly on you IMO.
 
shos....if Eagle were to flip scum that would not implicate Mala.  The only two conclusions in the current Eagle-Mala link is that if Mala were to flip scum....we would know 100% that Eagle was scum and if Eagle were to flip town....we would know 100% that Mala was town.   Any other result on either of them would not result in a confirmation on the other.
 
@ Eagle...why would GG "check" Mala's alignment in such away that could have killed him and leave the rest of us wondering WTF because we had no idea who he might have been "protecting?"
 
@shos...why do you keep asking to be docced if you think Eagle is scum (as evidenced by your vote on them at this point in the game)?    (I see Eagle asks the same question 2 posts later)
 
Nacho.... WTF?
 
Titus....GG claimed before Mala.  What does that imply?
 
Desp....how would we have reasonably known GG was "protecting" Mala?  <off to do cursory GG ISO>  meh.  Why, if GG had died, would we not have assumed he investigated one of his suspects (ika, Nacho, MattP)?  On further review and reading the wiki I think Mala would have been the obvious GG "protect."  Inclined to believe the claim....though I still really dislike it have the added Virgin aspect.
 
@shos...Mala was the topic of much of the day on D1.  Plus she had claimed cop.  Why do you assume a weak doc would try to get themself killed?  Isn't clearing a claimed PR AND living even better?
 
ika is taking a shit...gtk.
 
Wrt Mirari's Post 3002...she casts suspicions on Nacho.  Asks Eagle a fair question about claiming D2.  Decides through what appears to be mostly POE that I am most likely scum.  You go into detail a few posts later.  FYI...my "RL > mafia" sig doesn't mean I never post on weekends.  I just post much much more infrequently.  So it looks like your case on me is my sparse ISO (~10 day v/LA and late replace in aside?) and PoE.  I can't argue with PoE but the sparse ISO and weekend post/s is crap.  Question for ~town-Mirari....the game winds up in 5 player LYLO:  which of me, Nacho and ika would you rather have eliminated?  Keep in mind I am back from v/LA now and will be more active and that I am the only claimed ~PR that has actually proven 100% that I am what I claimed (discounting alignment).                 I also fail to see your connections between me and the other two.  Which makes sense considering there is none.
 
Regarding the Nacho shos Weak Doctor discussion.....fmpov...if I'm a weak doc, that doesn't mean I want to die anytime soon.  I'm more likley to try and clear a PR (while protecting it at the same time) on N1 than I am to investigate someone I suspect and get killed if I'm right.  And with no breadcrumb...be screwing over town.  I think GG's comments near the end of D1 in conjunction with his strong townread on Mala today shows he protected/~cleared Mala.
 
Nacho.... WTF again?  It's page 122....what is your case on me?
 
Titus.... I have no idea what your comments to shos are saying.  And wtf with your question in the next post????
 
shos.... telling Eagle to doc you is bad for two reasons.  1)...you think he is scum as evidenced by your vote on him and 2) the result of him protecting you could be explained numerous ways and would only provide value if Eagle survived to share his info and later died and flipped legit.  Otherwise it does us no good.  If Eagle is legit and dies N2 you can bet you would be screaming that scum RB'd or killed him.  And they well could.  I think the smarter use of Eagle's claimed power is to protect Mala again and see what Mala comes up with.  That could potentially lead to another cleared player or implicate someone as scum...while enabaling Mala to do so.  And most likley only resulting in at most 1 death as opposed to potentially 2. 
 
If you want cleared so badly why don't you just ask Mala to investigate you?????????? 
 
Not seeing the shos town read on ika.
 
Mala.... what's your point?  When I go v/LA I'm not town?  Does the same apply to my other game?  Was I scum in the game I was modding also? 
 
Eagle.... why could you get behind a havingfitz lynch?  Because of the v/LA?
Eagle.... WTFW?
 
Nacho.... WTF again^2?  What is your case on me?  Also...what do you think of shos changing opinion on you so quickly?
 
Nacho.... at last!  An explanation.  I'm a scummy lurker!  How so?  Was it the extended v/LA over the Xmas/New Year break?  How am I lurking and in a scummy way?  :mad:
 
Annnnnnnnnd then Mala drops a vote on me (while v/LA) despite:

• Don't vote Fitz
  Fitz did good
  Mala thinks voting players on v/LA is a dick move. 
  Mala kinda disagrees that I'm most likely a scum neighborizor.

WTF Mala?
 
@shos.... wasn't Nacho saying something along the lines of this game wasn't typical of town Mollie? 
 
I really dislike how shos keeps trying to direct Eagle's "power" to him.  Why not have Eagle protect mala and let Mala investigate you?  You don't have a QT...correct?  Then you are all clear.
 
Leaning town on Mirari for mostly talking sense.
 
@shos.... seriously...your avoidance of ika is reaching annoyance and you have subtley moved to a willingness to lynch me which bothers me.  And loses you town cred fmpov.
 
Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhk...the end of my catch up is in view......
 
And that's it.  Reads/thoughts in my next post.

[havingfitz]

Reads
 
Town:
Whiskers - After reading through today I feel a bit better towards Whiskers. 
 
1baldeagle1 - Liked GG on D1.  Didn't like the fact that a virgin and an investigative role are combined but after further consideration...that's what wisdom was essentially so that keeps my opinion of this slot fairly strong town.  Which makes Mala town.  Bleh.
 
Malakittens - The only thing keeping me from Mala yesterday was her claim and the only thing keeping me from voting her today is Eagle's claim.  Not a fan of her play.  Annoyed that claims are keeping me for voting her.  My recent concerns are shown in my previous post (the wall catch up).  Town based on Eagle claim. 
 
Leaning town: 
Kise - I had ooba as null town so Kise can be there for now.
 
Desperado - Not very active but says things I agree with.  Leaning town. 
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Mirari - Has a few posts that have made me think she is town but not a fan of her reasoning for voting me today.  Null.

Suspect:
Nachomamma - I did not care for Nacho when I read up upon replacing in.  He seemed more detached than I recall from other games.  I have liked some of his posts D2 and he has said things I have been in agreement with...biggest negative on him is his baseless push on me.
 
shos - liked a lot of what I saw from him D1 but have had a few things bother me today.  The push to direct PR actions.  The obstinance regarding Eagle's claim and asking to be docced by his main suspect.  And why not ask to be investigated by Mala?  Asking Eagle to protect/investigate you opens up all kinds of wifom depending on what happens tonight.  D2 was not good for shos IMO.
 
Titus - If there is a scum neighborizer my suspicion would remain towards Titus.  I will admit that I thought Titus was making some good posts IMO towards the end of the day but suspicion remains.
 
ika - pretty worthless.  Lynching feels a bit policy-esque but I would not want to have this playing in a LYLO situation.  Plus...scum can be worthless too. 
 
Happy to vote ika pending their claim.

[havingfitz]

wisdom was ascetic, that means he cannot be targetted at ALL. if he was to be the same, he would be virgin, not ascetic. he couldn't be neighebourized, yes, but he also couldn't be investigated, remember?

so you getting a 'strong town' read on eagle from wisdom's flip is terrible imo. and if you base both his and mala's alignment on wisdom's N1 flip, it's even worse. you're playing outguess the mod when you only have 2 flips and none of them confirmed any of the neighbourizing-related claims.

I'm not doing any of the stuff you are mentioning which I bolded.  I said I had liked GG D1.  He was a town read for me.  The only reason I was doubting that read was because Eagle was claiming weak doc in addition to being a Virgin.  I didn't think it was likely that the mod would have a virgin role AND an investigative role combined.  Until I realized this morning that that is essentially what Wisdom was.  He could be neighborized (like a virgin)...and the fact he couldn't be investigated is irrelevent to my point...and he was an investigative role.  So basically the same thing IMO as Eagle's role.  So I'm not saying I think Eagle is town because of Wisdom's flip...I'm saying my suspicions were misplaced based on wisdom's flip.  And if I am to believe Eagle...that clears Mala.  And I don't know wth you are on about in the last line
 

lol @omgus on nachotown

Assuming this is directed at me.....I suspected Nacho-tbd yesterday.  If anything I probably suspect him a little LESS today.  The only thing I have issue with from him today is his push on me.  Scum try to get town lynched.  lol at you discrediting omgus.  omgus happens. 
 
What are your thoughts on Nacho's push on me?  And can you remind me how he became town again when earlier today you felt the need to vote him?

OMFG.

do I need to reiterate it a thousand times? I wanted to be DOCCED. not CONFIRMED. that is just a sideeffect an important one, but the main idea is that I want to survive the night, and tomorrow I'll decide if it's vital that I survive even more or not.
The only way in which wifom occurs is if eagle dies and he dies ALONE. then, we don't know if I am scum who didn't shoot or if scum shot him and I can be town. either way I survive and mala gets a result. so why not. I think he is likely to die anyway if he is town so why not say what I think he should do if he is town? if he is scum it doesn't really matter now does it? and it doesn't look like people are going to help me lynch him so yeah. lynch ika, protect+investigate me/mala, investigate nacho/des. That's probably the best plan I can think of.

You don't have to reiterate anything...you just need to read closer.  I referred to you wanting to be docced.  Problem with that is doccing you prevents Eagle from doccing Mala.  If Eagle "protects/investigates" someone other than Mala and picks scum...he's dead.  Combined with the potential of scum shooting Mala if they know she isn't going to be protected...that could lead to two deaths.  If Eagle protects Mala...we're guaranteed at least one of them surviving and getting an investigative result from Mala (barring a RBer).  Plus if Eagle dies...that would confirm Mala.  So investigation result and confirmed Mala trumps shos still in the game (alignment unknown depending on who Mala looks at) and dead weak doc.
 
Why do you think you are going to die?  Assuming the Eagle Mala claims are legit...scum would be crazy to let them continue to exist.  So I reiterate...your request to direct Eagle is suspect.

[havingfitz]

What is your claim ika?

You're online and posting. Shouldn't be difficult.

[havingfitz]

Eagle....were you notified that your protect on me was successful?

[havingfitz]

Zzzzzz

[havingfitz]

VOTE: Kise

For the quick hammer on ika without a chance to claim and for not doing anything. No reads....no content. Just expecting town's trust.

[havingfitz]

OK...catching up from Monday:
 
@Titus...no shit someone pushing Mala was scum.  D1 there were 7 people pushing Mala.  Don't recall who pushed her D2 (if anyone).  Who's scum?  Agreed shos is suspect...but not sure I suspect him more than Titus...or even Eagle.
 
@Desperado...so Nacho is town because he was wrong about scum....and you're ok that he was wrong about penguin (D1) and me (D2)?  Worst town annointment ever.
 
Eagle....why the fuck didn't you protect Mala?  Question to all.....how did scum know Eagle wasn't going to protect Mala?  If they had shot Eagle then I would have been square in town's crosshairs today.  How do you know you weren't RB'd Eagle?  On that note...why would scum RB Eagle and kill Mala when they could have just as easily RB'd Mala and killed Eagle...thus implicating me. 
 

tl:dr;

I think Eagle is probably scum.
 
shos claim looks legit to me.
 
So if Kise and Mirari have a QT
and Wisdom was ascetic
and Whiskers, Titus and I are all neighbors
and Eagle is a virgin
and penguin could commute
....that only leaves two people (three is penguin had chose not to commute...but assume she would have with only 2 chances) who could come back as a not having a QT if Mala investigated them.  Everyone else had a legitimate reason to have a QT or a legitimate reason why Mala wouldn't get a result from them.  So once again....why kill Mala?  The only two people she would have investigated would have been Nacho or Desperado.  I think that implicates one of them in Mala's death.  I'm starting to think there are two scum within: Titus, Eagle, Nacho and Desp.  Desperado is probably last on that list because of his claim.  Desperado...if you were lynched or NK'd would your PM votes show up in the mod's votecounts?
 
UNVOTE: Kise
 
@Titus...trying to discredit shos' claim is absurd.  You seriously think he went back and found that crumb randomly?
 
VOTE: Titus
 
@shos...Eagle is not confirmed town.  And neither am I actually unless Eagle is killed/lynched and flips town (ignoring the possibility for RBing).  So Eagle is not confirm town.
 
Post 3279 makes me feel better about unvoting Kise.
 
Post 3281 is a claim that doesn't instill belief IMO.  I'm ok with suspicions directed at Nacho.
 

Titus is at L-1.

[havingfitz]

I said he could be in my last post.....

[havingfitz]

Titus and Eagle.

That works too.

[havingfitz]

fitz, can you read the game please... that I flipped a coin to ensure my night actions are random so scum cannot try to plan possible ways to thwart the plan.

Alright, targets for tonight:
1. Kise
2. Nacho

I'm willing to switch out Kise and put fitz in if you guys want me to.

Oh...ok. You flipped a coin. That explains everything. You're clear.

j/k

Flipping a coin is no excuse for making a crap decision.

And WTH would you switch Kise out with me

I would be up for an Eagle wagon. If he's telling the truth he should be the scum target tonight anyway....or he would potentially be allowed to target scum and die while allowing scum to get two kills tonight.

If he's lynched today and is scum...yeah! That would leave 6 town and 1 scum for tomorrow. Sucks for scum.

If Eagle were to flip town...I'd be confirmed and scum would probably be forced to kill me tonight and we'd avoid the potential for two town deaths tonight. And at 5v2...town would still have a mislynch to spare and could focus on other candidates. Plus shos might have another clue to help out.

Sooooo.....still ok with Titus but would very easily move to Eagle.

[havingfitz]

@ Whiskers.....so if Eagle had come back with a "Nacho has a QT" result...that wouldn't have helped?

I thought Mala's only options to investigate were Nacho and Desperado... but had Kise and Mirari claimed yet? If so...Mala would have had four options. Eitherway...her role was useful enough to warrant being killed over a more useful (if legit) PR in Eagle.

[havingfitz]

I have neighborized Titus and someone else. The someone else can FYI you.

Not sure if the others did anything yet.

[havingfitz]

What the fcuk shos?

I'll catch up on this day today. RL and other games have taken the lead combined with this one just coming out of night.

[havingfitz]

^^^^ seriously? Such an imagination.

There have to be easier mislynches to go after than me. Which points to you probably just being misguided town.

[havingfitz]

Ok.

In ika's ENTIRE ISO he only interacted with conftowns, me and whiskers.

Seriously. Read it. There doesnt seem to be a single mention of fitz, des and nacho.

VOTE: Fitz.

So why are you voting me?  Because ika did or didn’t mention me?  That’s crap logic.

I am pretty sure by now that scum somehow manipulated eagle(or eagle is scum). This managed to get fitz conftown, which means that to win he can just lurk his butt off - which he does. Scum did not know that I will get info about neighboueizers; just keep pushing the (correct) ideathat one neighbourizer is scum..then it will get whiskerstown lynched, as the last unconf neighbourizer standing which will get scum to lylo as conftownfitz, and both masons dead. It is even better if eagle is town - because they shoot him and then in 3p lylo fitz is SUPERCONFtown...

So if you think I am scum…you are basing that on Eagle being scum too (and clearing his buddy) …which I strongly doubt any scum team would do while at the same time both pushing for the lynch of their partner.  OR…Scum managed to RB Eagle at the exact time he was inclined to hide behind me.  But wait…if we are to believe your role….as you should….then unless you think there is the unusual combo of Mafia Neighborizor_Roleblocker OR mafia Encryptor_Roleblocker…then Eagle could not have been impacted by Scum.  Which points all the more at Eagle being scum IMO.

Has fitz even neighbourized anyone yet? If not it all just fits(no pun intended) - eagletown targets mala or fitz; so fitz blocks eagle, have no fear in shooting mala. If eagle protects mala then people will lynch eagle for not being doc. If he targets fitz then fitz gets conftown.

Once again…unless you are not being honest or believe there is the unusual combo of Mafia Neighborizor_Roleblocker OR mafia Encryptor_Roleblocker…this can’t be the case.

It all makes sense, and that means we are looking at nacho-fitz scumteam or des-fitz scumteam.

None of it makes sense chicken little.  Get your head out of your arse.

---

Dual mollie/arc townreads in the first five pages were fake as hell

Fitz's Ika interactions are terrible.  He votes him late D1 because he "doesn't like" his posting, but he doesn't pursue the read or interact with Ika at all.  Ika ignores his vote in kind.

I don’t need to interact with the people I suspect to suspect them and unless we’re in a LYLO situation or I have some sort of rock solid confirmation that another player is scum…I’m not big on cheerleading others into voting my reads.  Especially when my case is as strong as “don’t like his posting.”

D2 is even worse--Ika is a legitimate wagon (and the one Fitz wanted at the end of D1) with Titus-Desp-Grim and instead of helping us push Ika with a vote, Fitz says:

Here....on vacation at the moment (until the 6th) so a bit distracted.  Staying caught up for the most part on the reading....easier now with wisdom gone.

Pre-lynch suspicions towards Matt (Titus) and ika still remain.  Still mulling over next step...no rush.

First, the notion that this game would be easier with Wisdom gone is scum mindset 100%.  Second, he still wants to lynch Ika but won't vote him because there's no rush???  Inexplicable.  Fitz proceeds to ignore Ika completely

again

except for one single blurb in his massive catchup in #3161, in which he says "Ika is taking a shit...good to know."  I'm not making this up.

How is stating the game is easier without Wisdom a scum mindset?  I’ll state that opinion all day every day.  He posts too much and things get buried or glossed over.  And the ika lynch D2 was taking place while I was on vacation so the little I posted that day was to be expected.  I had no problem with ika being the lynch D2 as supported by my wagoning on the slot D1. 

And then his first vote D3 is on Kise for not letting scum (that he wanted to be lynched) fake claim??

VOTE: Kise

For the quick hammer on ika without a chance to claim and for not doing anything.  No reads....no content.  Just expecting town's trust.

tl;dr: the Fitz and Ika slots had scummy interactions going back to their Arc/Mollie iterations.  You should vote him.

There were no scummy interactions because I am not scum.  And I came down from my suspicions towards Kise so you pushing that point on me is crap.  The was nothing out of line having suspicions towards Kise’s quick hammer on ika.  There’s this term called bussing you should familiarize yourself with.  It’s something BTW that I do not do.

---

That’s just me responding to shos and Desperados asinine votes on me.  I’ll post more thoughts specifically on the game asap.  Maybe tonight but no later than tomorrow morning.

[havingfitz]

Town are fcuking stupid.

[havingfitz]

Why vote if you're gonna unvote at all?

I'm seeing whisker and eagle tbh

[havingfitz]

OK...looking back over this game a bit before I un-bookmark it.
 

Elyse...why did my hammer count?

  The net result of Whisker's Post 3443 was no vote.  I do not recall ever seeing this take place before...where a vote/unvote contained within the same post resulted in a hammer....but if it had not been the ~hammer vote....you would not have never even acknowledged the vote and it would have never so much as made it into a votecount.  Because the net result of the post was that Whisker's was not placing a vote.  Kise even called it a fake hammer.
 

tl:dr;

HTF did Whisker's vote on me ever count when the result of her post 3443 was to not have a vote in effect? 
 
And shame on town for lynching me D4.  Anyone who thought I could potentially be scum should have realized that for that to even be a possibility...either shos or baldeagle had to be lying.  Killing me would do nothing to implicate or confirm either of them whereas shos' push on me....based on a contradiction of his own "pr results"..was obviously scummy.  And by contradiction of his own results...I mean that for shos to vote me based on the fact baldeagle was roleblocked was not in line with his info that there was in fact a scum neighborizor and a scum encryptor.  With a ninja already having been flipped...that meant shos was pushing me as scum with a neighborizing-roleblocking ability or saying there was a scum encyptor-roleblocker.  wha wha what?
 
Absurd.
 
And for 3 townies to jump on that logic (or at least 2 townies and a debatable hammer) is an extremely crap way to facilitate town's loss.
 
Shos should have been an easy lynch.  Nacho for all his lurking would have been a tougher get and town might have still lost....but bleh.
 
I also didn't care for the set up.  It was definitely very unique...but 3 town neighborizors was just too difficult to believe.  For me at least.  Especially when I can not recall even seeing 2 town neighborizors in the same game.  1 scum and 1 town...sure.  but 2?  And on top of that...3!?
 
grrrrrrrrrr
 
Still enjoyed the game however.  Coulda shoulda coulda.
 
 
 
 

[havingfitz]

The vote happens when the mod reads it, not at the end of the post. That's how I would have done it too, regardless of whether it was the hammer or not.

Is that your interpretation or is it stated somewhere?

The outcome of the post was no vote. I would argue that the net result of the individual post is what should be considered.

[havingfitz]

The reason is that once a lynch is reached it cannot be undone. Its similar to hammmer and unvote in another post

Separate posts...absolutely. Within the same post...not as clear cut IMO.

And I think there was enough distance from nacho to make your potential lynch (which should have occurred) a situation still in scum's favor.

[havingfitz]

for that to even be a possibility...either shos or baldeagle had to be lying.

*cough, cough,* one of them

was

.

No shit.

I mean that for shos to vote me based on the fact baldeagle was roleblocked was not in line with his info that there was in fact a scum neighborizor and a scum encryptor.  With a ninja already having been flipped...that meant shos was pushing me as scum with a neighborizing-roleblocking ability or saying there was a scum encyptor-roleblocker.  wha wha what?