Mini 1482: Castle - A Mafia Murder So Vile (GAME OVER)

[Wisdom]

in fact, looking at tne's iso there is like nothing substantial in there at all.

Well I don't like how he essentially agreed with my lynch in his only post today. He will have to explain how I was inconsistent.

[Wisdom]

Because I cannot see how the fuck serra would do that as town.

[Wisdom]

But Natirasha was around, he would claim. He was already at 4 votes and it already looked like he would be the lynch.

[Wisdom]

Also, if that was the case, why was he okay with Desperado and havingfitz wagons? Weren't they potential powerful roles?

[Wisdom]

Because I cannot see how the fuck serra would do that as town.

Then, by this logic, why am I scum?

serra was okay with almost any wagon - Mantis, macmollie, Desperado, havingfitz - but not yours. If he is scum, why specifically not want your wagon but want anyone else's?

[Wisdom]

Bleh. I have to admit that's not a bad answer.

[Wisdom]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: serra

[Wisdom]

Natirasha, do you have any reasons for scumreading me other than what happened at the end of the day? If not, do you not find my explanation good enough?

[Wisdom]

I can agree that they could be perceived as weird, especially to someone who doesn't know me. But not scummy.

[Wisdom]

What is your read on tne and penguin?

[Wisdom]

mollie why the hell would we go for the lurkers over serra?

[Wisdom]

mollie are you on drugs?

[Wisdom]

None of that translates into a town-Wisdom who would have wanted one of his scum reads to flip;

I didn't care whether I scumread havingfitz or not at the time. I cared that I was dealing with scum succeeding in what they were doing. And I was not going to help them.

[Wisdom]

and figured that when havingfitz flipped town he'd be able to use it to push the people who'd started the quicklynch wagon.

So I would push people for starting a deadline wagon, even if it was on town? Deadline wagons on town happen all the time.
Also, are you saying that I made up my havingfitz read at the beginning of the day, knowing what will happen at the end of the day?

[Wisdom]

But that usually applies for me when there are choices, e.g. my town reads are on another wagon. That wasn't an option here.

You mean the Natirasha wagon that serra refused to join wasn't an option?

[Wisdom]

Also since my arguments apparently don't hold water, want to explain to me why town-serra refused to vote Natirasha at the deadline? After having even offered to self-hammer to prevent a no-lynch?

[Wisdom]

How the fuck did I not make sense in Polygamy, mollie? You keep saying that and it's bullshit.

[Wisdom]

So here comes deadline, wagons forming and collapsing elsewhere, and suddenly people are forming one on someone whose lynch you've been advocating. How to avoid jumping on the wagon? Say it's now scum-motivated. You can't backtrack on your havingfitz read without looking like a hypocrite, but you can find a reason to stay off the wagon anyways.

And why not simply hammer..? Deadline, no1 will blame me, I have scumread him all game, everything I need. Why make all this scene and draw attention on myself?

[Wisdom]

It was great for town, but it could have easily been godawful and only been marginally better than a no-lynch.

As I described it, stroke of luck.

[Wisdom]

But Nat wasn't at L-1, with only serra there as a hammer option. The biggest wagon I can find had 4 of 7 necessary votes, and since I'd fallen asleep it was unclear whether we'd even get a hammer assuming Bert jumped on as well. From what I can tell, with Nat not self-voting and me not around, the most you'd've gotten would have been six with serra. The other five people weren't around so far as I can tell.

He would at least bring him at L-1 though, and then we could wait for someone to hammer. Better than doing nothing /voting people with zero votes on them. Especially for someone who had claimed he was willing to self-lynch over no-lynching.

[Wisdom]

mollie are you going to answer or are you just going to lie about my meta?

[Wisdom]

Maybe Mantis is right about you after all. This is exactly how you lied about my meta in Hidden Temple.

[Wisdom]

You're blatantly lying because first of all it's established that I make much less sense as town because of my paranoia. Sometimes I get some things right, but most of the time I get paranoid over wrong things. And you know that, you've witnessed such occasions enough times.
And then you're lying because in Polygamy I made sense in everything I said. Rarely I will say something that people won't think makes sense as scum, unless I'm trying to emulate my townplay.

[Wisdom]

This is the exact feeling I got in Hidden Temple tbh - you can't see I am town when you should be seeing it. I understand if Om, Natirasha, or whoever else has not played with before does not see it, but you should be seeing it.

[Wisdom]

Mara, am I still scum?

[Wisdom]

He started this day off already, penguin.

[Wisdom]

he knows Wisdom was inconsistent, but still has to ISO him?

THAT's what's bad? Really?

[Wisdom]

In other news, new fancy counterwagon so serra does not get scrutiny. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised.

[Wisdom]

if I were scum you would be dead

it really is that simple

Yeah you would surely kill me when a lynch is being planned on me in the end of D1. There's no fucking way any scum would kill me.

the hidden temple paranoia is what I would expect you to do as scum. remember you giving me a pass cos I was sus of you on the heels of polygamy? it works both ways.

The hidden temple paranoia is only happening now because you decided to act the exact same way as there. Tunneling on me when you should be able to tell I am town and even lying about my meta. As I said in Hidden Temple, you have understood I am town in situations that I was actually scummy, it's suspicious when you can't do so when I am being obviously town.

explain to me your town read on mantis. that is 1 thing I am having a hard time swallowing.

She has tried to do things and figure out people as opposed to lurking like she does as scum, and her paranoia on you and penguin seems genuine enough. I tried to lecture her that you are town and that she's wrong but she wouldn't give up her read - while if she were scum I would expect her to eventually agree with me in order to appeal to me. Her play has certainly been weak in some cases, but I have seen her townplay being weak elsewhere (Micro 204, Duck Duck Goose, even Gonzo to an extent) so it doesn't bother me that much. I do not think she can emulate her townplay that good, and therefore I am confident she is town.

[Wisdom]

Mara, do you agree with whatever mollie is saying about my meta?

[Wisdom]

In other news, new fancy counterwagon so serra does not get scrutiny. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised.

^ this is where you don't make sense when you are scum you turtle into conspiracy theories instead of giving honest refutations.

I mean look at this.
I do conspiracy theories

as scum

? Seriously?

[Wisdom]

As for tne, I already said I think there's a good chance he's scum. I didn't like how he tried to raise suspicion on me in his only D2 post by calling me "inconsistent", but I cannot dismiss the possibility of him being town thinking I was actually weird. He doesn't know me that well anyway.

Not anywhere close to serra however, and the fact this wagon is happening instead of the serra wagon that should be happening means I am completely unhappy with it.

[Wisdom]

Peng things the neighborhood is TvT and isn't considering the fact that one of you may be lying about flavor

That's incorrect, she did say that I may be fake-claiming about my flavor name.

[Wisdom]

Also Mara - why Desp? And how was Angel "super town"?

[Wisdom]

funny thing is this made me ISO Angel and I realized she was pushing a Natirasha lynch - the opposite of what serra did

[Wisdom]

Yeah, not seeing Natirasha as serra's buddy at all after this. Natirasha was probably right on why serra didn't want to vote him.

[Wisdom]

tbh I'm not sure if I think he's town, if only because he agreed with my theory too easily.
Otherwise his play more or less looked no different than Nuzlocke, although I'll admit it has weakened today.
Maybe you're right about him, dunno.

[Wisdom]

Updated scumpile; {serra, mollie, tne, penguin, Desp}
Mara's making me think she's probably town.

[Wisdom]

Updated scumpile; {serra, mollie, tne, penguin, Desp}
Mara's making me think she's probably town.

so if tne is a scum read for you then why are you not voting him?

1181

[Wisdom]

Wisdom, you're finally acknowledging that there is apparently a difference between town-wisdom and scum-wisdom.... I can't believe it. What has gotten into you

It's Nacho's fault

What are you trying to get at here... that they are plotting against us and BOTH are scum?

That's what I thought at first (I explained it much more in another post) but right now I think only serra is.

Because there were 4 people on the original Desp wagon. And also 5 others no the fitz wagon. It was a team effort. And there were people not willing to lynch Nat and/or serra, but they weren't proclaiming it like OMG WILL NOT VOTE SERRA/NAT like your stubborn self

Spoiler: really?

WHY ARE YOU VOTING FOR NAT. IT'S LITERALLY OF ZERO USE!!

WHY ARE YOU VOTING FOR NAT. IT'S LITERALLY OF ZERO USE!!

it's my vote!!!

<3

I don't want to lynch Nat though.

I'd really much rather not.

Wisdom I don't understand why you are reading me as town this game, this does not happen ever (514 you started reading me as scum towards the end, 1402 you freakin got me lynched, and in our marathons you got onto me early). What's up with that? Afraid people are gonna defend me and make you look bad? Time to get some friggin reactions outta you

if you're town, let's convince mollie before she goes bananas

I learned to read you after getting paranoid in 514, quite confident I can tell your townplay now.

[Wisdom]

A Desp/TNE/Slimer team would be too easy. But, again, how many scum are we even trying to find?

Most likely three.

[Wisdom]

I mean do you think that scum are trying to move the lynch away from sera? if so who?

Who do you see in my scumpile?

so do you still think nats is scum? do you still think tater is town?

I think I have answered both of those.

[Wisdom]

Wisdom, I'm still figuring out. There's time.

I don't see you doing anything to figure me out.

[Wisdom]

Bert, how would you feel about serra/penguin/Desp? That's my best guess right now.

[Wisdom]

Bert, that's just how slimer posts.

[Wisdom]

I'm pretty confident about serra.
My main point, which I've explained countless times, is his refusal to vote Natirasha. He was willing to vote himself in order to avoid a no-lynch, but he was not willing to vote Natirasha to avoid a no-lynch. I cannot see this done by town, no matter how hard I try.

And then there's my point from D1 - his push on slimer felt forced. He even threatened to blacklist everyone because they didn't want to lynch slimer. I have played a fair amount of games with serra(all town) and I don't think it's like him to get annoyed at lurkers, especially to that extent.

[Wisdom]

Desperado I'm liking less and less. Now he's apparently only posting to defend himself when he's being accused.

[Wisdom]

As for penguin, I have had two games with town-her but I can't really tell if the play here matches those or not. Mantis told me that it doesn't and I think she might have a point.

[Wisdom]

It's not the same thing though. Sakura said it clearly, serra just said "I'll probably avoid playing with such bad town if we don't lynch slimer", I'm sure you can see the difference.

[Wisdom]

I dunno, scumhunt maybe?

[Wisdom]

Yeah.
So Desp is scum.

[Wisdom]

So you're saying you don't have other scumreads?

[Wisdom]

And why are you scumreading Natirasha again?

[Wisdom]

Desp, this weak defensive play is nothing like you. I remember you being aggressive and going after people, lots of people, in Nuzlocke. Now I do believe people can play differently in games, but such a big difference? Why are you doing nothing here?

[Wisdom]

And this "case" is terribad, really. Either you devolved into a bad player or you're scum, and the latter is much more likely.

[Wisdom]

It's one game, but it's all I've played with you. Meta is just an extra though, my issue is you're doing nothing, you have a scumread yet you're not engaging him to figure him out and ensure that your read is right or change your mind, you only post to defend yourself, you're trying to self-meta... Yeah, I can't see you being town right now.

Can you explain the rest of your reads to me? Even the null ones.

[Wisdom]

Why would an explanation of why each player leans the way they do would be fabricated?

[Wisdom]

Lynx died, Mantis.

[Wisdom]

Mantis, what do you think about serra/penguin/Desp? I'm feeling more and more this is accurate.

[Wisdom]

slimer why do you focus so much on the Lynx kill?
What are your reads?

[Wisdom]

She still looks town to me.

mollie, what do you think of Desp?

[Wisdom]

I want Mac to explain that to me.
He looks like obvscum to me, especially with his recent posts.

[Wisdom]

any town worth their salt should have picked up on it. penguin did. plus she has some stuff that I have been thinking.

Neither of these things make her town though. Scum will look for things that they can push too.

[Wisdom]

Okay, you're wrong.

[Wisdom]

slimer still waiting for your reads

[Wisdom]

serra and Desp are scum, Bert. Replace tne and slimer with them.

[Wisdom]

No, town make bad cases too. The thing is you're not going after anyone else and you're continuing doing nothing.

[Wisdom]

Bert, if serra is town, explain 932 to me.

[Wisdom]

like how I was wrong about gm in monks and masons?

no, like how you were wrong about a zillion people in gonzo.

[Wisdom]

i dont care mollie. penguin is scum here. and so is serra and Desp. So sort out your other reads and realize I'm right already.

[Wisdom]

"everyone" is an exaggeration. Like 2-3 people do.
You don't look like scum to me, your rebuttals to accusations on you on D1 were good.
Besides you were mislynch fodder for serra.

[Wisdom]

But Natirasha wasn't near a lynch

Natirasha was at 4 votes, biggest wagon at the time.

[Wisdom]

fitz had 0 votes, Bert. Try to see things as they happened.

[Wisdom]

^Can we fucking lynch this?

[Wisdom]

How did penguin move to unsure?

[Wisdom]

Also you have nats twice in your town pile

[Wisdom]

serra is still scum, and Mantis is starting to make me think she's scum with the bullshit she's posting.

[Wisdom]

Yes

[Wisdom]

Mantis might just be retarded town. Serra probably is bussing.

[Wisdom]

because i believe that serra & nat are town. and i'm in a way, sheeping serra's vote on him. but at the same time, not really having a town or scum read of desp. plus, i think this lynch will go through over penguin (who i would prefer first, i think).

I can't put into words how bad this is.
mollie, I admit I haven't seen her saying something so retarded as town, have you?

[Wisdom]

11 DAYS away from the deadline and you're giving your penguin wagon so easily? Without doing anything at all to try and push it? And you vote someone you don't scumread because you want to sheep someone who is town? Who the fuck says that if someone is town their reads are accurate?

And then you apologize to penguin because you scumread her?

Just what the fucking fuck.

[Wisdom]

wisdom, the case on serra is not really great. it only involves him not wanting to vote for Nat, and somehow thinking he escaped the lynch.

who - at the time, i was against lynching, as well

. so it wasn't like it was all him sneakily bypassing his way out of it.

YOU STARTED THE WAGON ON NATIRASHA, how the fuck were you against lynching him?

[Wisdom]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Mantis

Fuck this. I'm starting to think serra is actually town and people are just WKing him. I cannot comprehend people's failure to scumread serra otherwise.

[Wisdom]

Mantis/desp/{penguin/tne}

[Wisdom]

I've seen both happening - either I'm fucking right about serra and nobody listens to me (see Malakittens in monks and masons) or I'm terribly wrong and scum are WKing serra.
I was confident it's the former but Mantis is so fucking weird that I am thinking it's the latter with Mantis WKing serra.

[Wisdom]

She's not THIS derpy as town.

[Wisdom]

Oh wait, that sounds like the Serra train

No shit. And when serra wins this game like Mala did I will fucking flip a table over.

[Wisdom]

No, I haven't seen her being this derpy at all.

[Wisdom]

I mean, she is derpy sometimes as town but not to this point.

[Wisdom]

Because she's WKing serra. I do not get how town are so adamant on serra being town when he's fucking obvscum.

[Wisdom]

like at the end of D1 with the "HELL NO, I'm not willing to vote anyone but Serra,"

That's incorrect, I had switched to Natirasha. I just refused to vote the wagon they made, namely fitz.

[Wisdom]

Things are like that
a) I am fucking right about serra and everyone is being stupid and doesn't listen to me (it wouldn't be the first time), while Mantis is being stupid stubborn town and thinks that somehow serra is town.
or
b) I am wrong about serra and Mantis is scum WKing him.

I'm slowly leaning back to a tbh, but I want Mantis to come and explain herself first.

[Wisdom]

Actually UNVOTE: .
Mantis CAN be this derp now that I think of it.
In this game, I had caught Disturbed-scum in lylo and Mantis came and caught a scumslip of him I hadn't noticed. We were both certain he is scum, until Disturbed starting AtE'ing and saying some bullshit and Mantis believed him and kept insisting he is town. We ended up mislynching.

VOTE: serra

[Wisdom]

mollie I dont think thats what Desp said.

[Wisdom]

Also we mislynched Mara there because you and Nacho wouldnt fucking listen to me about Mala. Nacho made me sheep him on Mara and lynch her first, I wanted Mala first.

No, I'm lynching serra today.

[Wisdom]

Then why are you voting Desp?

[Wisdom]

You're not trying to gain any support.

[Wisdom]

If she's your top scumread, make a case and convince us why she's scum.

[Wisdom]

What? Can you quote which posts you mean?

[Wisdom]

So you're scumreading her because she's scumreading me?

[Wisdom]

So your case is "this doesnt look like her town game" and "she scumreads Wisdom".
And that's supposed to warrant a lynch over someone like serra?

[Wisdom]

Okay, go ahead

[Wisdom]

It's not like she has posted much...

[Wisdom]

Yeah and then you believed that he derped and forgot who he protected

[Wisdom]

Like you believe that serra chose not to vote someone whose alignment he doesn't know when he was previously willing to vote himself

[Wisdom]

maybe lynching VT over possible special was what he was thinking.

Desperado and havingfitz weren't possible PRs?

[Wisdom]

There weren't enough people for anything at all at the time of the Natirasha wagon, and you tried to wagon Desp instead of voting Natirasha. You are blatantly lying.

[Wisdom]

Bert don't you dare touch slimer. He's town and serra's mislynch fodder. He will keep spamming about lynching him because doing otherwise would confirm how fake that push was.

[Wisdom]

Natirasha you're not sheeping me if you're voting Mantis.

goddamnit people, vote serra.

[Wisdom]

It's possible. Although Desp's recent posts make me feel better about him.

serra is scum, Bert, goddamnit. Listen to me for once.

[Wisdom]

What will it take for you to get it into that thick skull of yours that there were enough people around for a fitz lynch, and I read Nati as townier than fitz?

Seriously Bert, read this. You were there. When the Natirasha wagon formed, serra didn't vote him and said that the votes on him are useless, because we have no time. He then voted Desp, who had zero votes, apparently giving up and saying that we don't have a majority for any lynch at all. And AFTER THAT Mantis proposed the fitz wagon and Natirasha started it.

Yet serra is trying to defend with "I preferred fitz than Natirasha" while at the time there was not ANY sign we were going to wagon fitz.

How do you not see this is a lie?

[Wisdom]

Disregard what I said about Desp looking better.
serra/Desp is a thing.

[Wisdom]

Your Mantis vote is opportunistic. You seemed disbelieving when I was saying that Mantis is not this derp as town but when mollie points out something that is equally weak and has the same potential of being wrong, you sheep it without hesitating.
Meanwhile, you ignore serra's obvious lying.

[Wisdom]

You wanted me to prove what I was saying, ergo you were disbelieving/ you were not buying it. Yet you opportunistically sheeped mollie's point.

And bullshit. serra just repeated what others said about happened. He is lying and there was no other excuse he could have used about what he did. But no, you choose to ignore it.

[Wisdom]

whereas the example mollie provided from TR is pretty clearly reflective of mantis' play here.

Nope.

[Wisdom]

And confbiasing my ass. serra did exactly what I am saying. Look at this:

OK, pulled 932 back from the gallows. But Natirasha wasn't near a lynch....she/he had a choice of which person to push, and Natirasha wasn't likely because Natirasha was one of the 6-7 people present. Fitz wasn't here, so reaching a lynch on Fitz was more likely than Nat. Plus Serra preferred a null-scum read over a townread?

and now look at this:

What will it take for you to get it into that thick skull of yours that there were enough people around for a fitz lynch, and I read Nati as townier than fitz?

serra just copied the interepretation others were giving of his action. Because there was no other excuse to give for what he did.

YET YOU ALL KEEP IGNORING HIM.

[Wisdom]

It's still serra/Desp/penguin, and you're all still stupid for not listening.

[Wisdom]

When the Natirasha was at 4 votes, there was NO intent from ANYONE to lynch havingfitz or ANYONE else. Natirasha was the ONLY viable wagon. Yet serra refused to vote him and gave up, saying we don't have a majority for ANY lynch.
All that after being willing to SELFVOTE to prevent a nolynch previously.

READ THE GAME BEFORE YOU ATTEMPT TO TWIST HOW THINGS WERE.

[Wisdom]

The desp vote was a joke. We still don't have a majority, so there's no use.

Here he gives up, saying we have NO majority so we are doomed to no-lynching.
While Natirasha is at 4 votes and he STILL refuses to vote him.

[Wisdom]

And his excuse for that is that he somehow KNEW that a havingfitz wagon will form out of nowhere and we will be able to lynch.
When there was NO indication of something like that happening.

AND YOU IGNORE HIM.

[Wisdom]

He could still vote the largest wagon instead of doing nothing. Bert was around and someone HAD to log in if we wanted to have any lynch at all.

penguin is still scum btw. Her vote on tne is useless and her neighbour thing is bullshit.

[Wisdom]

But I'm still fucking worried that scum are WKing serra.

Desp and penguin are scum and this serra defense is troubling me.

[Wisdom]

And do you want another reason for why penguin is scum?

See how she immediately read me correctly in another game and was confident about it:

Why are we calling this a 1v1? Wisdom does tunnel town to the point where other players wish they were 2-shot dayvigs just to put an end to the madness. See: Micro 99 where he and Majiffy went round and round to the point where they had nearly 500 of 1100 posts. And they were both town.

yet here she "doesn't trust me". Yeah, no.

[Wisdom]

penguin just insists on her neighbour thing and her "I dont trust you" because she's hesistant to go away from the borders she has set. She said "I don't trust Wisdom, there has to be scum in the neighbourhood", and that's what she will continue to push no matter what so that she doesn't get called out on being a hypocrite. town-penguin would have realized she was wrong by now and would have adjusted her read.

It's the same thing for Desp's "scum in Nat/serra/tater" and it's the same thing for serra's "let's lynch slimer".

[Wisdom]

and the idea that a Nat wagon would have happened just isn't one of them

"would have happened"? Nat was at 4 votes, closest to lynch. Try to at least make sense.

[Wisdom]

And your vote is useless, you avoid the main wagons and you vote a lurker.

[Wisdom]

"We have ten days", really? So you're blatantly saying that you'll just sit back, leave your vote on a lurker, and do nothing.

Thanks for making it even more clear.

[Wisdom]

When I was telling serra to vote Nat, Nat had 4 votes, fitz had 0, and there was NO indication that a wagon on fitz will ever happen. You purposefully fail to look at things the way they were at the moment serra did what he did, you look at them from a point in the future.

[Wisdom]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: penguin

You guys dont want to sheep me on serra? Sheep me on this. Whether with serra or not, penguin and Desp are both scum. There's no fucking doubt about this. This is not town-penguin.

[Wisdom]

there was NO indication that a wagon on fitz will ever happen.

How are you this stupid? Basically everyone around (including you) had indicated that they wouldn't be averse to a fitz wagon.

Quote.

[Wisdom]

Btw Mantis is bleeding town again and whoever continues voting her is fucking terrible.

[Wisdom]

Mantis, if serra is town, who is the third scum?

[Wisdom]

SERRA
Quote me where near the deadline, and BEFORE you refused to vote Nat, people were talking about a fitz wagon.

[Wisdom]

I won't flip out. If serra is town, the third scum is in {slimer, Tater, Natirasha}.
And I might just add mollie in there if I don't see an unvote in her next post.

[Wisdom]

Wisdom's tunnel on Nat right now

what?

[Wisdom]

Wisdom, so my not townreading you means I must be scum? And you're comparing my ability to town read you here to a game where a) 3 of 4 scum had flipped, even if they didn't have as many interactions as one would like, and b) I had a ton of inside info as a mason in that set-up? I can elaborate, but it was pretty situation-specific. Although fine, if you think you have such a distinctive style as town, point me to a scum game where the difference is clear. The most recent one will do.

No you're scum because this is not your town play. As town you'd re-evaluate, here you're sticking to a certain thing you said despite it no longer making sense.

[Wisdom]

@serra
I don't believe you. If you were thinking about a fitz wagon, you would start one, you wouldn't be joke-voting Desp or whining about how we don't have a majority. Nat started it, and THEN you joined it. You weren't thinking of it previously.
Yet now you're claiming that you had it in mind prior to Nat starting it, and it's a lie, no matter which way you look at it.

[Wisdom]

@1499
Yeah. Mantis obviously didn't think of the possibility it's scum WKing town and only thought about scum-scum.

[Wisdom]

I'll go look how much sense tater makes as the third scum

[Wisdom]

You said that you didn't vote Natirasha because of the fitz business.
The fitz business had not started when you refused to vote Natirasha.

[Wisdom]

As much as it pains me to admit it, serra is town. Looks like he really just didn't bother to remember what exactly happened back there, hence his inconsistency today that I called lies. I'll never get why he refused to vote Natirasha when he did, but unfortunately every retarded and hilariously anti-town move does not come from scum.

penguin/Desp/{tater, slimer} is the scumteam.

[Wisdom]

Good, now sheep me on penguin

[Wisdom]

Or Desp, either of them are fine.

[Wisdom]

Reads

[Wisdom]

Do you mind doing penguin first?

[Wisdom]

slimer is probably the third scum actually :s

[Wisdom]

mollie vote penguin now

And unvote Mantis, ffs.

[Wisdom]

LOL

[Wisdom]

wat

[Wisdom]

tne isn't scum, mollie. It's penguin, Desp and slimer.

[Wisdom]

Because fucking read Desp's posts. He is not town. I've seen town-Desp and it's not this thing here.

[Wisdom]

someone please hammer thank you

[Wisdom]

*thenewearth - macmollie, Natirasha,

penguin_alien

, Sweet Pertayter

This is how

[Wisdom]

And no I'm not picking out anything for you. Go back and read. Desp is obviously scum.

[Wisdom]

She has not done shit all this game, yet she comes and contributes to her buddy's lynch when the wagon is being made.

YOU are not this stupid.

[Wisdom]

tne is just mislynch fodder, mollie. He has not done anything that he does not do as town.

[Wisdom]

Because I scumread serra and it looked like he wanted to push his mislynch.

[Wisdom]

Like I told you the first time, all that exchange means is that Desperado was WKing tne.

[Wisdom]

Or did I say the opposite the first time? Wait

[Wisdom]

Yeah I said the opposite the first time (scum-tne WKing Desp)
Lemme reread this exchange

[Wisdom]

Well just read 72, mollie. Desp wouldn't use that weak stuff to townread a buddy. It's townreading actual town for fake reasons.

[Wisdom]

Bert I wanna throw something at you right now.

MANTIS IS TOWN, STOP VOTING HER.

And theres nothing to settle.

[Wisdom]

Hi scum, dont worry, you're going next.

[Wisdom]

I make that he's scum and he's going tomorrow.

[Wisdom]

Because we're lynching your buddy today, which of course you're ignoring.

[Wisdom]

in the monks and masons game that wis keeps banging on about wis had 1 scum picked out but mollie had 3. I started scum reading mala but did not want to go after her cos I wanted to try to influence who she was going to nk cos I knew we were dead. I looked at that playerlist and pretty much knew that with wis and mollie/nacho hydra gone that scum would win. I wanted wis to stfu so he could live another day. nacho and I wanted to try attract both nks cos I knew we were very very likely to be nked or to try to influence mala's nk. wis fought me every. step. of. the. way. he would not give up his very wrong town read on gm, ignored tippy who was announcing that he was scum and kept interfering in the process of me trying to figure who mala's partner was. I was also fighting with nacho in gchat over mara cos I was town reading her and he wasn't. meanwhile mara got lynched. wis will is a good player but he will never be a great 1. I once told this exact same thing to majiffy and it pissed him off but then he changed his mind when he started seeing the results of me doing this in our hydra. wisdom frustrates me cos I see all of this potential but it will go no where cos he is so stubborn.

itt mollie blatantly lies about past games.
1) I changed my mind about goodmorning and constantly had Mala, goodmorning and at least one of the lurkers (Cirno/TIP) in my scumteam prediction. My only mistakes were Mara and Sakura, which nobody can deny that were super scummy (evident by the fact they got lynched).
2) TIP only replaced in and posted in the end of the day, when I never got to post. How the fuck did I ignore him when I never saw him posting?
3) You never said anything inthread about Mara being town.
4) All this bullshit is useless. I am once again right in my scumreads in this game, with serra being my mistake like Sakura was in that game. All this drama about who is stubborn and who is right is useless.

[Wisdom]

You don't know how each player defines PR/special vibes. Perhaps they thought she's a PR for some reason.

[Wisdom]

itt scum whining for being caught for the wrong reasons
someone needs to hammer

[Wisdom]

Lynx suspected slimer, you(mollie) and Desperado.
If the scumteam is what I think it is, that'd mean she had 2/3 right. Pretty good reason to be killed.

[Wisdom]

Hope you have enough room in that club because people will come swarming

[Wisdom]

I don't know about Tater. Om I just don't know and don't really like, and Mara has just seemed apathetic for the most part. In the few posts she did care and made I thought I got town vibes. But I'm not that good at reading Mara anyway.

I'm thinking slimer over Tater though because I don't think Tater makes much sense with the other two (again thinking as if we have the two flips, I know, but I'm feeling like they're both confscum so can't help it). however, slimer said something about wanting to go see who Lynx suspected, which is weird given Lynx actually suspected slimer and it makes me doubt that he's scum.

I don't know how you see Desp town. If he's town he's really really apathetic about the game - he doesn't do anything, he sheeps people, his cases are really weak.. I don't think I can see that as town. Town-Desp I had seen was active, constantly trying to read people.. basically the exact opposite of what I'm seeing here.

[Wisdom]

Why do I not like the above post?

[Wisdom]

Why do I not like the above post?

You're supposed to. He just echoed your reads of who the scum are, save for tater??

No, tater is also part of my reads. I had said it's penguin/Desp and one of {slimer/Tater}.
I don't like her post though. Nobody trusts my reads so much.

[Wisdom]

Maybe she has been brainwashed

Mantis is not the type to get brainwashed.

[Wisdom]

UNVOTE:

[Wisdom]

I want people to stop being apathetic and start posting. I'm willing to shut up for a while so that they do so.

[Wisdom]

Desp/Mantis/peng does not look like the scumteam. Therefore you don't have it.

[Wisdom]

Both buddies?

[Wisdom]

And she tried to brainwash me about penguin, one of her buddies?

[Wisdom]

Not really

[Wisdom]

this post really smells like scum caught out for what they think are the wrong reasons.

I think the same applies to most of penguin's posts, agree?

[Wisdom]

I don't have a case on her. slimer was mostly PoE.

[Wisdom]

If wisdom starts scumreading Serra again, he should go tomorrow imo

he = serra?

[Wisdom]

I don't have a case on her. slimer was mostly PoE.

huntress asked in the post she quoted what the case was on penny. that is what I am talking about.

No, I didn't restate anything.

[Wisdom]

Duh, I was referring to Serra. Read more carefully

It could also be read as "if wisdom starts scumreading serra again, he (wisdom) should go tomorrow."

But why do I have to scumread him for him to go?

[Wisdom]

I don't like cases. She can read penguin's posts on her own.

[Wisdom]

{Wisdom, macmollie, Bert, Tater, Natirasha}
^mollie, do we agree this is the town?

[Wisdom]

Other than goodmorning, it was accurate though - and I did change my mind about her.

[Wisdom]

So mollie
that leaves {Penguin, Desp, Huntress} & {Mantis, serra, tne}.
Could you see the second group being the scumteam?

[Wisdom]

Don't rely on theories.

[Wisdom]

macmollie - Mantisdreamz, thenewearth, Bert, ArcAngel9 [4]

Actually this probably means that {Mantis, serra, tne} is not the scumteam. All of them on one person seems highly unlikely.

[Wisdom]

*macmollie - thenewearth, ArcAngel9, Lynx_Shine, Mantisdreamz [4]

And again later.
Nah. Not the scumteam.

[Wisdom]

You also said you're going to read the whole thing, so you'll find the reasons you want while you do so.

[Wisdom]

How have I ignored you?

[Wisdom]

I agree that you cannot meta off one game. I will give you that. However when the change is SO drastic, and your play here is the exact opposite of the town play of that one game, I cannot ignore it.
If it was only meta, I would give you the benefit of the doubt and say that for some reason you are super apathetic about this game and you can still be town. It isn't, however. Your pushes have been bad, your cases have been bad, your "one of Natirasha/Tater/serra has to be scum" looks like a typical scum-motivated forced conclusion, and you do not actively try to figure out anyone. You only try to defend yourself when attacked, and you whine about the reasons people scumread you. Which again, is what scum do.

[Wisdom]

VOTE: Desp

[Wisdom]

Umm no it doesn't?

[Wisdom]

serra you just want to make me paranoid again, don't you?

[Wisdom]

It has nothing to do with meta. You're just not town, your actions can't be town.

[Wisdom]

Wisdom is Castle, Mantis his daughter.

Mantis is Castle, I'm the daughter.