Mini 1482: Castle - A Mafia Murder So Vile (GAME OVER)

[serrapaladin]

VOTE: Bert
Hi Bert!

Hi you guys. 4 days on the clock isn't too bad.

I just need to go find a new lightbulb for this room, then I'll start catching up.

[serrapaladin]

@mala: Love the flavour, my summer hasn't had nearly enough Castle!

Now, some thoughts from my first read-through in more or less chronological order and probably with very little structure:

I'm not a fan of Desp's defence of Nati and the accompanying Bert vote.

Making empty posts is not the same as being gone and not posting. Do you think we're going to lynch Natirasha for lurking like this? No, but this should be a wake-up call to get his head in the game. I don't claim to be some super genius, but it's still urgent to get discussion going. I am so not happy with how my vote on Natirasha is being perceived.

How is finger-pointing empty? I made a fair accusation saying that she/he should be more serious about the game and not just say "this game isn't catching my interest." I've heard scum (Majiffy in Micro 189) just come in and say "this game hasn't caught our interest yet. I'll be back later"....and then come back days later when a huge portion of the day is already in the books. I have a low tolerance for that.

This is pretty town motivated.

Now, it's not as though a lack of early interest is particularly scummy, but Bert's vote was fine. Desp's, however, was bad.

Nati himself is either genuinely not engaged or playing his cards close to his chest. Either way he'll remain difficult to read until later on. I don't like the smug "look I got you guys talking", but he's neither here nor there.

Lynx here sounds different to scum-Lynx in Rach's Newbie. Her play here is a bit looser, which probably means she's town (or just doesn't have the pressure of fery scrutinising her, but I think the former.)

Om reads town, but I'll need to keep an eye on Ms. Marple (HI YOU, btw. It's been a while!).

106 is terribly uncharacteristic for town-Wisdom. I don't think I've ever seen him come in with a read-list after being called out for being too quiet. Town-Wisdom usually comes up with something indignant about how he doesn't play all of his town games the same way and continues as he was. I'll give him the point against fitz though.

115 by mollie pretty much bang on agrees with my thoughts. mollie is tentatively town, but I know she can make as much sense as scum, so I'll leave that as a maybe.

122 is pretty horrible. I remember sort of liking town-tne, so some new meta on him might be in order.

peng is also going to be an issue to read.

fitz continuing to go after mantis for the picture thing is just silly. In addition, Nati and slimer are pretty convenient targets to go after.

184 sounds like town-Mara, which is a relief.

I believe Om's frustration at Wisdom. Also thinking tater/macmollie is likely town-town.

Could we just policy-lynch slimer? Like seriously, he's not going to replace out, he won't contribute, and he'll be a liability towards endgame.

288 by Bert is truly painful. If he were a stronger player he'd be scum for how fake that is, but as is I might just have to ignore him.

Mantis might be scum. The 'reads' she tries to piece together in 245 and the following justifications look pretty fake.

In her discussion with mollie, mantis is looking a bit townier though.

Tater is still town - I particularly like the Mara half, and I think she might be right about Wisdom, too.

Desp's Nat vote is pretty opportunistic.

(obviously im playing

numberwang

with these numbers, bear with me)

<3

I like peng's 385 and her tne vote. I'm not completely convinced of tne-scum, but peng's points are at least decent ones to make, and I don't think scum-Peng would kickstart a new wagon at that point.

Ooh, but I don't like Wisdom's tne vote. He seems way too glad about having found a suitable mislynch target that he can write off as a DL lynch.

So I feel desp/Wis as scum, with a likely third among {slimer, mantis, Nati, fitz}. If I'm wrong about desp, tne shoots towards the top of that list.

My plug for today's lynch would probably be slimer though. What mollie has been saying is absolutely true and somehow slimer has actually managed to look worse here than usual. We can call it semi-policy.

It's genuinely a much better idea to take care of slimer now when our lynch would be the least informed.

VOTE: slimer

[serrapaladin]

So I feel desp/Wis as scum, with a likely third among {slimer, mantis, Nati, fitz}.

no tne in here despite calling one of his posts horrible. Noted.

Perhaps you should have read the second part of that line? The one where I say that if desp is town tne becomes a serious option? You know, because desp has been hard-defending tne for weak reasons?

slimer votes are terrible btw. Especially from people who have played with him before.

We'll figure him out later

, we're not lynching him now.

That's not how it works. There's a reason slimer has such a good scum record. Towns just don't lynch him. He won't give us something to figure him out by, and his lynch is just going to be more costly later on.

Ooh, but I don't like Wisdom's tne vote. He seems way too glad about having found a suitable mislynch target that he can write off as a DL lynch.

I could point at anyone and call them a DL lynch, why would it have to be specifically tne? Your assumptions are wild and bad.

But PA had just started the tne wagon. There had been so much discussion about the wagons and mollie et al, that pointing at one of those as a DL lynch would have raised more questions, whereas a brand new DL lynch is perfect to latch on to as scum.

[serrapaladin]

Want to show me a game where you've read him correctly as scum?

[serrapaladin]

A short scum one

A slightly less short town one

For bonus points, I was scum with him in the first, and replaced into LyLo as town in the second.

If he's delivering as little content as he is now, I find his two games virtually indistinguishable.


That's not quite true Wisdom. You won't get the same feel as if you're playing with them, but some elements of a person's play are pretty distinguishable by a decent meta-dive.

[serrapaladin]

Wis, how do you anticipate slimer's play changing? He's still V/LA for 2 weeks or something, so if we don't lynch him today, chances are we won't D2.

[serrapaladin]

Activity overview has him V/LA until the 27th...

[serrapaladin]

Serra

You've never seen Scum-mara, so what are how are you deciding how I sound like as town without that?

BUT HAI, LONG TIME NO SEE

Can you explain your desp read?

Except I have...awkward :/

Desp's Bert vote was awful. His lack of push-back after some people scumread him is nothing like the Nuzlocke, and the Nati push while wking tne doesn't look right (e.g. 407)

I really think slimer should go today, though, what do you think about him?

[serrapaladin]

"If you don't think Nat is town, she is a much better lynch today" is just terribly awkward phrasing. It's sort of wanting to shift the wagon over to Nat without taking responsibility for it. "She's not null anymore" about Nati is equally awkward. That looks different to how you took stances and developed reads in Nuzlocke.

The way you're defending him, you're not scum with tne.

[serrapaladin]

364 came first and 367 was prompted. 407 stuck out because of how horrible the phrasing was. Your comment on 392 is petty.

[serrapaladin]

Eh, he's lurked his way to a scum win too many times, and I've seen towns allow him to lurk D1 and maybe 2, only to decide to lynch him for lurking on D3, when you really can't afford the mislynch. D1 lynches on a whole are pretty sub-par, and so far the only hints of readable play I'm seeing from him are reminding me of some of his scumgames, so we might as well deal with this now.

[serrapaladin]

slimer is a convenient D1 mislynch to push, isn't he?

No, actually. Not at all. In the current site meta, people get up in arms if they so much as sense the word 'policy'. There were plenty of people who had already been put under pressure and would have been easier mislynches so this is not just a "loaded" question, but bullshit.

slimer, if you scum-lurk for a few days only to replace out, that's really no different. Even disregarding the games where you replaced out, there's hardly any difference between your play in the Longest Micro and Faith +1, neither of whom I would want around, and you're posting less now than in either.

slimer's townread on fitz is hilariously unjustified.

Lynx was sort of overeager to convict slimer, but I'm still leaning town-overeagerness.

"If you don't think Nat is town, she is a much better lynch today" is just terribly awkward phrasing. It's sort of wanting to shift the wagon over to Nat without taking responsibility for it. "She's not null anymore" about Nati is equally awkward. That looks different to how you took stances and developed reads in Nuzlocke.

The way you're defending him, you're not scum with tne.

this is a terribly weird post since I read that what you were saying was awkward was how mara said you had never played with her when she has been scum.

since that was the post you quoted.

and now it kind of looks like you are moving flagpoles in order to include something you never addressed in the first place. :/

I think some call it misdirection

I'm not sure if you need to lay off the drugs or a lesson in reading comprehension, but here goes:

Mara said I have never seen her as scum, when I actually had. Her not remembering having played with me is

situationally

awkward.

Then there was my reply to desp. I had said that his Nati push didn't look right; he asked why, and I responded that his

phrasing

("well, if you don't really think Nat is town, maybe you guys could vote him instead...") was awkward and uncharacteristic.

slimer is a convenient D1 mislynch to push, isn't he?

This is a loaded question.

Nope, this was me stating that I think slimer is being pushed because he's a convenient easy mislynch.

then why are you not pushing sera harder?

Oh my...

VOTE: sera

I'm seriously starting to entertain that TNE might be right about mollie, and even if he's not, that last post doesn't look like scum.

[serrapaladin]

I'll let you try to remember that one to be fair, it wasn't particularly long, and you killed me, but I have played with scum-you...

And oh that scum-game of mine was awful. Not one of my proudest moments.

Do you still think Wisdom is most scummy? If not slimer, who else would you consider?

I'm not particularly feeling a tne lynch, and no one is interested in desp, so if people keep hating on me wanting to lynch slimer I might join you on Wisdom.

[serrapaladin]

So we have 36 hours left and the deadline is somewhere in the middle of Sunday night, so we really need to get something done.

You guys are obviously intent on letting slimer play this sort of game, so I can only hope he'll replace out or something. I really don't have the tenacity to see this through. If he is scum and wins this, or if he's town and ends up getting mislynched in LyLo, I'll just need to avoid games with him, or better play with people I know don't fuck around with lynching lurkers and other anti-town play.

UNVOTE:

On to greener pastures (not really):

I don't think there is a thing wrong with my reading comprehension skillz when you quote 1 post, never address it and then respond to another.

Jesus fuck mollie, I've rarely seen you this stupid. The only time I quoted anyone in that exchange was 458 where I quoted mara. Mara said I'd never played with scum her, to which I responded that I had, and she asked me to explain my desp read, which I did. 462 was in reply to the post above it by desp. This is really not that complicated.

Bert, why is TNE's 509 terrible?

I'll also point out that scum-desp isn't showing any interest in finding a lynch.

fitz is a horrible vote.

I could see myself voting Wisdom, desp, or mollie. TNE maybe, but only as a deadline lynch.

[serrapaladin]

Does that mean you feel better about slimer's recent "content". Nati?

Can we lynch just lynch desp?

[serrapaladin]

Fair, I thought the same thing before I realised she was making fun of mollie's.

I'm amazed that slimer manages to agree with something Bert posted in error...


Anywho, let's do this:

VOTE: Desp

[serrapaladin]

insistence on the slimer lynch

UNVOTE:

k

[serrapaladin]

Eh, it's not as though I have a personal grudge against slimer, it's just that I've grown tired of games hinging on whether or not the lurkers are town...

[serrapaladin]

So mollie is voting me because she can't read, Wisdom is voting me because he thinks he has a good understanding of what I do and do not get annoyed at, slimer is voting me because of my push on him, and desp is voting me because?? Boy has this gone well for me. Worst of all, a likely 2-3 of them are town... At least I'll now have some meta on this site to point at the next time I go for a hard push on someone like slimer.

desperado is a bad vote.
what use would he have as scum to move the lynch away from TNE? no one is that obvious as scum partners. and that's over the top whiteknighting

This is a truly, truly horrible post.


Desp is still a good wagon, but it doesn't look like he'll be lynched.

My current reads are something like:

Town
Bert
tne
Lynx
Nati
PA
Tater
fitz
wisdom
mantis
slimer
mollie
desp
Scum

Scum could reasonably be any combination below about PA. mollie/{slimer/desp}/fitz would work well, as would {wis,desp}/mantis/{slimer,tater}.

No lynching at an odd number with likely 1 NK is just really bad. I'm just a VT (Javier Esposito), so I'll be sure to self-hammer if you guys can't get the votes together, and get back to playing more f2f instead.

[serrapaladin]

Wis, calling someone town for over-the-top whiteknighting is bullshit.

slimer, if your tag says V/LA and you only come back to defend yourself, that doesn't make you look any better in my book. That you would be "my only hope" of a scapegoat is ridiculous. Are you actually saying you think I'm scum with tne and tried to push the wagon off him?

[serrapaladin]

Well I guess I can do that too if it brings us closer a lynch...

VOTE: Mantis

[serrapaladin]

Damn Sunday deadlines... who is actually around?

Mala: any chance we could get the deadline moved to Monday?

[serrapaladin]

Mantis and Desp both have two votes without yours Serra, what are you doing?

I don't think Om wants to vote Mantis and

I don't see the case for scum-Serra other than that weird as fuck switch

No, wait

never mind. I missed Nat's Vote to Mantis

VOTE: Serra

I have a better feel for that lynch over the Mantis lynch

So the only reason you'd think I might be scum is because I switched from Desp to Mantis, but when you realise that I only changed because Nati voted, you decide to vote me anyway? Down my scumlist you go...

[serrapaladin]

Yo mollie, I'm seriously not scum. Have you reread the exchange involving Tater, desp, and me? Would you vote Mantis or desp?

[serrapaladin]

Xpost gimme a chance to claim at least? Christ

It's not even funny how often this comes from scum. Town that wants to claim claims; scum that wants to claim asks for time to claim.

God dammit. Time for some bravado.

VOTE: Serrapaladin

Serra

: Please don't consider this vote against you via case. I think you are town and this lynch is being driven by scum. However, I refuse to allow a No Lynch to happen here. Rest assured, I will not let your death be in vain.

WHAT the hell is this!? You're saying you'd rather lynch town than a nolynch. What kind of fuckery am I reading.

EXPLAIN NOW.

Why are you even asking this? A no lynch is literally the worst thing that could happen with odd numbers. As I've said before, I'd rather self-hammer than let this go to no lynch.

[serrapaladin]

Final decision is no. The only reason why I would extend it is if HavingFitz asked me to give him more time to catch up. Other than that there is really no "reason" to extend it, sorry.

Fair enough. Well at least there are a few people around now. I'm not a fan of Sunday deadlines.

and Serra, I don't think either of the major wagons are scum, but I have recently got a much better feel from Mantis than I have from you. I'd much rather keep her over you and the fact that you now reading me as scum because I chose her over you is strange.

I'm not reading, I'm just reading you as worse than before, and not because you chose me over Mantis, but because of the succession of two posts, the first of which claimed the only reason you'd consider scum-me was my vote switch, and the second of which removed that reason, but voted me nonetheless. If that's how you feel, I would have really expected a vote in the first of the two posts.

@serra: Then a lynch and a nokill is the worse thing that could happen, yes?

Surely you can't be this daft. Even if the lynch is on town, you want the town to control who is removed from the game.

[serrapaladin]

If you're still around for a bit, don't hammer just yet.

I'm a bit busy for another 20 minutes or so, but I do still want to look through stuff.

Could we just have a role call of who's around at the moment, to see whether there is any use in discussing alternatives to mantis/me?

[serrapaladin]

Alright, I've postponed other stuff, so I'm looking at this now.

UNVOTE:

My gut has mantis back up towards town, which is a bit of an issue.

[serrapaladin]

So my thinking cap is on, and I'll go through this bit by bit.

God dammit. Time for some bravado.

VOTE: Serrapaladin

Serra

: Please don't consider this vote against you via case. I think you are town and this lynch is being driven by scum. However, I refuse to allow a No Lynch to happen here. Rest assured, I will not let your death be in vain.

Bert

: I think you are the most townie of those in this game. I think you and I are on a similar wavelength at the moment, please don't betray my trust here.

The Town

: I have an idea, but it will only work if I can set it up in private with a player. I know this is a leap of both trust and speculation, but if there is a neighborizer, please speak to me tonight.

The Scum

: I'm Om to you.

For the first time this game, I have a clear plan of action on how to proceed. Despite getting very little done today, I think the town is in prime position for day two. Let's finalize this lynch and go, folks.

This would be such an arbitrary thing for scum to come up with. Either there's some silly stuff going on and Nati has information he's trying to abuse, or this is genuine and he's town. I'm very much leaning the latter. Not lynching him today.

Xpost gimme a chance to claim at least? Christ

This still rings alarm bells, but other posts have me reconsidering.


...

[serrapaladin]

Then:

630 actually reads genuine to me by tater. I'm willing to believe her, and I suppose that also makes me okay with her progression on me.

mollie still isn't.

Lynx is completely right about slimer, but that's something to address tomorrow.

The neighbour claim is annoying. I'd really want to leave that alone until we get more claims.

If Mala is doing this right, Castle is as likely to be a fakeclaim as anyone else.


As to why I'm being voted: slimer thinks I've been misrepping his meta to score an easy lynch, Wisdom thinks my annoyance at slimer is fake because I couldn't possibly be that annoyed at lurkers, and desp thinks???


...

[serrapaladin]

Hey Wis, wanna talk about how you and mantis are Town/Town neighbours?

[serrapaladin]

BECAUSE.. this:

So my thinking cap is on, and I'll go through this bit by bit.

God dammit. Time for some bravado.

VOTE: Serrapaladin

Serra

: Please don't consider this vote against you via case. I think you are town and this lynch is being driven by scum. However, I refuse to allow a No Lynch to happen here. Rest assured, I will not let your death be in vain.

Bert

: I think you are the most townie of those in this game. I think you and I are on a similar wavelength at the moment, please don't betray my trust here.

The Town

: I have an idea, but it will only work if I can set it up in private with a player. I know this is a leap of both trust and speculation, but if there is a neighborizer, please speak to me tonight.

The Scum

: I'm Om to you.

For the first time this game, I have a clear plan of action on how to proceed. Despite getting very little done today, I think the town is in prime position for day two. Let's finalize this lynch and go, folks.

This would be such an arbitrary thing for scum to come up with. Either there's some silly stuff going on and Nati has information he's trying to abuse, or this is genuine and he's town. I'm very much leaning the latter. Not lynching him today.

Xpost gimme a chance to claim at least? Christ

This still rings alarm bells, but other posts have me reconsidering.


...

"i think you are scum, but maybe not"
(twice)

Yes, you have posted a few really, really awful posts that. if coming from town make me want to leave an imprint of my forehead in my wall. Unfortunately, there are also posts of yours that sound genuine.

[serrapaladin]

As to why I'm being voted: slimer thinks I've been misrepping his meta to score an easy lynch, Wisdom thinks my annoyance at slimer is fake because I couldn't possibly be that annoyed at lurkers, and desp thinks???

"guys im being voted for the wrong reasons, please dont lynch me"

^scum

"Scum caught for the wrong reasons" is such a bad tell. It doesn't work. Not even close. Town is as likely to argue against false accusations as scum.

[serrapaladin]

Then:

630 actually reads genuine to me by tater. I'm willing to believe her, and I suppose that also makes me okay with her progression on me.

mollie still isn't.

Lynx is completely right about slimer, but that's something to address tomorrow.

The neighbour claim is annoying. I'd really want to leave that alone until we get more claims.

If Mala is doing this right, Castle is as likely to be a fakeclaim as anyone else.


As to why I'm being voted: slimer thinks I've been misrepping his meta to score an easy lynch, Wisdom thinks my annoyance at slimer is fake because I couldn't possibly be that annoyed at lurkers, and desp thinks???

...ok.

am thinking of unvoting.

what do you mean by lynx is not right about slimer? do you have a town read on lynx? and what are your thought on slimer?

why is the neghbour claim annoying??

*back to thinking that you might be a good vote*

Are you kidding me? You are doing literally EXACTLY what you just voted me for doing.

[serrapaladin]

I want to lynch desp. I really want to lynch slimer. I also sort of want to lynch mollie.

[serrapaladin]

I think lynx is right about slimer, that he's still technically VLA, but has loads of time to post replies to attacks on him, but nothing else. I very much think lynx is town. slimer is the scummy side of null, but still needs to go.

Neighbour claims are annoying, because it's often useful to keep them alive until more of the setup is known, so we can judge how many of them are scum.

Oh just shut up Wisdom, you've made it obvious you're not considering any alternatives to your view, so just start preparing your letter of apology.

[serrapaladin]

Mantis, why do you think I'm scum?

[serrapaladin]

Hey Wis, wanna talk about how you and mantis are Town/Town neighbours?

[serrapaladin]

if you are town, maybe you should start your apology preparation.

And whom shall I apologise to?

[serrapaladin]

i do think lynx is town,, for the most part.

i'm starting to feel inclined to vote lynx

Seriously, what is with you?

[serrapaladin]

Tell me why you think there's a town/town neighbour hood.

[serrapaladin]

desp, mollie, slimer, wis. basically in that order. if desp is town, tne moves up.

[serrapaladin]

Look, if this'll just be you and me arguing which one of us should be lynched, I just don't care enough. I could have just logged off and let peng hammer you, but I thought I'd give it another look.

[serrapaladin]

also, what''s wrong with voting havingfitz? seriously

I don't think there are 7 of us online.

[serrapaladin]

Actually, even desp probably isn't realistic anymore.

[serrapaladin]

Mantis, what's wisdom's character?

[serrapaladin]

what did he say in your QT?

[serrapaladin]

I don't want to lynch peng, but would consider mollie. Think we can get a majority?

[serrapaladin]

Wisdom, why are you even here? You're not contributing and you're not showing any willingness to change your mind.

[serrapaladin]

Would there be 7 here to go for fitz?

[serrapaladin]

Mantis, even if we all agreed, there aren't enough people to get him lynched.

[serrapaladin]

Hell, if peng is gone, there probably aren't even enough people to get you lynched...

[serrapaladin]

wis, is there any chance you'd vote mantis to avoid a no lynch?

[serrapaladin]

Do you want me to self vote?

[serrapaladin]

Hi Bert. How do you think this day should end?

[serrapaladin]

I don't think Nat is scum. Peng might be, but she's not one of my real scumreads.

[serrapaladin]

Well how do you think it should end?

How have I not been adamant?

I want to lynch desp. I really want to lynch slimer. I also sort of want to lynch mollie.

Desp is my realest scumread. Mollie/slimer/wis come next, of which slimer most needs to die because just look at his posts.

[serrapaladin]

Why are you even discussing him? We have much more urgent matters at hand.

Not true, Bert. If Mantis, Nati, you and me vote for me, I can be today's lynch

[serrapaladin]

^ was @mantis about fitz

[serrapaladin]

Well how do you think it should end?

How have I not been adamant?

I want to lynch desp. I really want to lynch slimer. I also sort of want to lynch mollie.

Desp is my realest scumread. Mollie/slimer/wis come next, of which slimer most needs to die because just look at his posts.

this is what i don't get. how is desp and wis, in the top for your scum reads?? can you explain? (i might have to look back some) (or if you have links, that would be good)

I could, but I'm really really tired. If you go through my iso, I'm sure you'll find a decent explanation of you're looking for, particularly for desp.

[serrapaladin]

Hey Om. We're close to No Lynching.

[serrapaladin]

WHY ARE YOU VOTING FOR NAT. IT'S LITERALLY OF ZERO USE!!

[serrapaladin]

I'd rather no lynch than lynch Mantis or Serra right now

[serrapaladin]

WHY ARE YOU VOTING FOR NAT. IT'S LITERALLY OF ZERO USE!!

it's my vote!!!

<3

I don't want to lynch Nat though.

[serrapaladin]

WHY ARE YOU VOTING FOR NAT. IT'S LITERALLY OF ZERO USE!!

it's my vote!!!

<3

I don't want to lynch Nat though.

Then don't waste your vote not voting.
Just because we have and hour and a half left doesn't mean you can't keep pushing for what you want.

VOTE: Desp

GOGOGO!

[serrapaladin]

I'd really much rather not.

[serrapaladin]

The desp vote was a joke. We still don't have a majority, so there's no use.

[serrapaladin]

Nope. serra and you are the only viable wagons and those two are the ones I've been on.

Yup, L-1 Mantis with intent to hammer really was never a viable wagon.

[serrapaladin]

Mantis is not getting lynched, not today, not ever.

How can you possibly be so sure?

[serrapaladin]

serra, at least vote Natirasha. Bert will probably be around to L-1 and then we only need a hammer. Better than doing nothing and accepting that our fate is no-lynch.

I would rather do this for fitz than Nati.

VOTE: fitz

[serrapaladin]

serra, i just finished giving you the benefit of doubt, how about you do the same

Oh don't get me wrong, I do have you as town by now, I'm just wondering why wisdom is so sure of it.

[serrapaladin]

We don't have fucking time for fitz

YOU STARTED VOTING NATI LIKE 10 FUCKING MINUTES AGO

[serrapaladin]

So Wisdom knows scum-you?

[serrapaladin]

(yes even though i unvoted) (wanted to think on it a bit)

Not liking this. It indicates that Mantis is thinking of what people will respond to her post and she's trying to cover these possible replies already. Meaning that she cares about how her post appears to others, which is a scumtell.

[serrapaladin]

why are you so concerned serra?

Concerned about what? I'm concerned about no-lynching, and I'm concerned about wisdom being scum.

So Wisdom, how's the "we don't have time for fitz" looking?

[serrapaladin]

Nope, we're still at 6, so we need ommy to drop by, but this is as close as we would have gotten on anyone else without selfvotes.

pedit: hi ommy <3

[serrapaladin]

you're not getting my vote on this scum-made wagon.

ahahahahahahahaha
ahahah
ahaha
ha

[serrapaladin]

the problem is that this wagon was made by serra and Nat so they can avoid their lynches.

This is so untrue it's not even funny.

[serrapaladin]

I'm going to enjoy reading this when I'm back, aren't I?

[serrapaladin]

5) Mantis, Penguin, Slimer lean town. SP, Bert, Serra lean scum. If Nat is scum, SP and Serra aren't which means one of the three lean towns is scum. Any more detail would be fabricated, which is why I don't feel compelled to make something up to satisfy you two.

Oh my...

[serrapaladin]

Is anyone willing to lynch slimer today? I'll read this tomorrow.

[serrapaladin]

Wis is tunnelling on me again, huh?

I'm sorry to keep you guys waiting, but I'm catching up now.

[serrapaladin]

Anyone who townreads serra - fucking explain to me this.

serra states that he's willing to self-hammer over a no-lynch:

No lynching at an odd number with likely 1 NK is just really bad. I'm just a VT (Javier Esposito), so I'll be sure to self-hammer if you guys can't get the votes together, and get back to playing more f2f instead.

That means he's willing to lynch someone who he knows town, the only one who he knows town, over a no-lynch. Good so far.

Then he refuses to vote Natirasha for a deadline lynch, which he supposedly does NOT know town. He tries to form wagons on anyone else, but when people vote Natirasha he goes "OMG NO DONT VOTE FOR NATIRASHA, ITS NO USE" and votes someone else instead. And then he and Natirasha form a wagon on havingfitz.

Tell me why the fuck would town-serra refuse to vote someone whose alignment he doesn't know when previously he was willing to vote himself in order to avoid the no-lynch. Go and read what happened and tell me why the fuck he would do it. See how he was talking about potentional mollie or Desp wagons, yet refused to vote Natirasha when Natirasha already had 4 votes on him. And then had no problem voting havingfitz either. Fucking explain how serra is town doing this.

So this is the big case for scum-me you've been banging on about? This is really quite a shit argument. Most basically, my lynch order went me<Nati<everyone else, but let me let these quotes show you why you're a complete moron instead.

seriously serra?

Vote Natirasha ffs

I'd really much rather not.

We don't have fucking time for fitz

YOU STARTED VOTING NATI LIKE 10 FUCKING MINUTES AGO

he is possible

How is there no time for fitz he's had some accusations and consideration of being voted for the past several days. Nat's wagon also just started, what we don't have time for is debating whether or not there's time. Either get it done or don't. Like so:

VOTE: havingfitz

WHAT FUCKING PART OF THERES NO TIME FOR FITZ DO YOU ALL NOT GET

Jesus fuck chill out how is there time for Nat and not fitz?

Fitz is not here and thus does not comprise one of us, leaving our maximum firepower at 7 votes

Nat is here; thus our total firepower on him/her is 6

If this is seriously the sort of argument Wis will tunnel on for 15 or so pages, I really don't know what else to say... I think one of us needs to go today, so scum can stop hiding in the noise of Wisdom shouting at people for not agreeing with his terrible case.

[serrapaladin]

If you are town and read the post, you will care about the point he's making, that the neighbourhood is town/scum. You won't care about the "probably". So yeah, he was speaking in absolutes, only doing it in a way better for people to find the point good. If you go and blatantly post "The neighbourhood is town/scum, Wisdom is scum, period", people are not likely to agree with you as much.

Wow this is a bad post.

also slimer plays kinda the same as both town or scum (though there are differences),

Go die in a hole.

Dw guys, I'll tell you what I think about the NK when I get out of class.
VIVA LA KITTYLUTION

Can we lynch this yet?

I am leaning town on you only cos claiming neighbors is a bold move to do as scum and I can't determine as to whether or not wis or you would do that.

Also bad.

3. I would rather see myself lynched then have a no lynch go through. at least town would have useful info in the way of my reads.

That's not what I asked. Why didn't he vote Natirasha? Natirasha was the biggest wagon. He was willing to self-lynch to prevent a no-lynch, but he was not willing to lynch Natirasha to prevent a no-lynch. That's what I want explained.

Because I cannot see how the fuck serra would do that as town.

Then, by this logic, why am I scum?

serra was okay with almost any wagon - Mantis, macmollie, Desperado, havingfitz - but not yours. If he is scum, why specifically not want your wagon but want anyone else's?

Perhaps he thought I was gullible(I had been on his side since his first post) and having a townie in your pocket is good?

Don't you dare.

In other news, new fancy counterwagon so serra does not get scrutiny. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised.

<3

tbh I'm not sure if I think he's town, if only because he agreed with my theory too easily.
Otherwise his play more or less looked no different than Nuzlocke, although I'll admit it has weakened today.
Maybe you're right about him, dunno.

You should really read Nuzlocke again and look how he responds to being called scum.

Yeah.
So Desp is scum.

orly?

[serrapaladin]

VOTE: Desp

Wis, do you actually think desp and I might be buddies?

[serrapaladin]

Nati, what's wrong with the interpretation that we're both town?

Hi Mantis, you're still town, right?

[serrapaladin]

Nah you guys, I really think Mantis is town from our interaction at the end of D1. I don't know what to think about her derpiness, but unless it's a common characteristic of her scum game (which doesn't seem to be the case), I don't think I much care for her wagon.

Wisdom, are you honestly still on about why I didn't vote Nat? Good lord... What will it take for you to get it into that thick skull of yours that there were enough people around for a fitz lynch, and I read Nati as townier than fitz?

I definitely want desp before tne, but I admit haven't really given peng much thought.

Anyone interested in lynching slimer yet?

[serrapaladin]

There weren't enough people for anything at all at the time of the Natirasha wagon, and you tried to wagon Desp instead of voting Natirasha. You are blatantly lying.

Bert don't you dare touch slimer. He's town and serra's mislynch fodder. He will keep spamming about lynching him because doing otherwise would confirm how fake that push was.

[serrapaladin]

Aww, come on! Desp is a good wagon.

[serrapaladin]

gonna sheep Wisdom

[serrapaladin]

Hey Wisdom, because others already anticipated my explanation, it must be a lie, amirite? Every second post here is Wisdom yelling about me being scum, so I'm bored. If Wis is scum, as I do still somewhat suspect, good for him, and if he's town, my flip is likely the only thing that'll set his head straight. I'm no Majiffy, so if you want Wisdom to stop you'll just need to lynch me.

[serrapaladin]

there was NO indication that a wagon on fitz will ever happen.

How are you this stupid? Basically everyone around (including you) had indicated that they wouldn't be averse to a fitz wagon.

[serrapaladin]

think Desp is scum and was whiteknighting thenewearth

You're hilarious, you know that?

[serrapaladin]

i was just gonna say...... but you might flip out... that i could actually potentially see a scum slimer. trying to take on the appearance of just being lazy town.

<3

[serrapaladin]

Wisdom, the people on the Nati wagon at that point were: mantis, tater, you, and lynx.

You and mantis had already said you'd join a fitz wagon. Lynx had said equally little about nati and fitz, so I thought she would join. Nati had started talking about no-lynching, so I had the impression he wouldn't self-hammer. The only one mildly averse to a fitz wagon was tater.

The only person I'd lynch over serra right now is havingfitz. Or maybe Natirasha. But there's no time for either wagon to happen.

Bert in response to 555 (can't quote it seems)
I dunno probably fitz? The guy my votes on.
I don't even remember who serra took over for.
if deadlines not soonish today, ill be able to give a better respinse.
dont think desp though.

I will compromise on fitz, Mantis. VOTE: havingfitz

[serrapaladin]

think Desp is scum and was whiteknighting thenewearth

You're hilarious, you know that?

is it cause i voted Desp earlier than unvoted him, and am now back to scum him?

It's hilarious because of:

desperado is a bad vote.
what use would he have as scum to move the lynch away from TNE? no one is that obvious as scum partners. and that's over the top whiteknighting

[serrapaladin]

@serra
I don't believe you. If you were thinking about a fitz wagon, you would start one, you wouldn't be joke-voting Desp or whining about how we don't have a majority. Nat started it, and THEN you joined it. You weren't thinking of it previously.
Yet now you're claiming that you had it in mind prior to Nat starting it, and it's a lie, no matter which way you look at it.

Yes. Nati voted fitz. I considered it, and joined him. So? I even quoted Nati's fitz vote and acknowledged it came before mine. Where am I claiming I started the push for fitz?

I finally need to get around to writing some flavour for my Micro, but I'll get around to ISOing peng soon.

[serrapaladin]

Good god, thank you!

I should probably drop this, but for the sake of completeness: I ULTIMATELY didn't vote Nati because I ended up voting fitz, whose wagon had support. I IMMEDIATELY didn't vote Nati because I wasn't ready to compromise on someone I found townie than Mantis, whose lynch I had stopped.

[serrapaladin]

VC here when sober

^ srly

<3

[serrapaladin]

mollie, you still haven't given a good reason for why I'm scum, have you?

[serrapaladin]

Spoiler: Bert right now

[serrapaladin]

Hey Ommy, what do you think of the current shift towards Peng? Would you buy peng/desp?

[serrapaladin]

Nati, what are you on about again? I think at some point we need to talk about this and your neighbouriser thing yesterday...

[serrapaladin]

wat

This.

<3 drunk Mala

Eh, I'll need to give this some thought, Nati.

[serrapaladin]

[serrapaladin]

^ someone has been spending too much time with Majiffy

Spoiler: @Bert

reusing gifs, huh?...

[serrapaladin]

I am not quite sure you could look any scummier if you tried.

<3

I think I've gotten my Micro balanced (well more or less), and I have enough flavour for about the next month, so I'll be able to focus on this tomorrow. If I don't come up with a wall or two by tomorrow, someone hit me. But really, if we could just agree on lynching desp and slimer, I'd be pretty happy with this game.

pedit: another one? really?

[serrapaladin]

I am not quite sure you could look any scummier if you tried.

<3

I think I've gotten my Micro balanced (well more or less), and I have enough flavour for about the next month, so I'll be able to focus on this tomorrow. If I don't come up with a wall or two by tomorrow, someone hit me. But really, if we could just agree on lynching desp and slimer, I'd be pretty happy with this game.

pedit: another one? really?

SERRA

Scumbag get back here

Oh shit, that was like two days ago.

[serrapaladin]

If wisdom starts scumreading Serra again, he should go tomorrow imo

Oh, stop it. You can see that my only site-wide activity has been getting my micro running...

[serrapaladin]

God dammit desp might be town and I need to do some reading.

UNVOTE:

If someone teaches me how

nawk

works, I might still get to this tonight?

[serrapaladin]

Explain to me why you think that's scummy, Bert? I would say it fits better with town-desp.

[serrapaladin]

It's attracting votes by proposing a 1-on-1 against someone with more towncred. It wouldn't be a very smart move unless wisdom is his buddy. I can't think of a single time scum under pressure has reacted like that against anyone but their buddy.

And responding to a flashing message on my phone takes about 20 seconds, whereas opening MS on my computer and reading through pages is a time-sink.

[serrapaladin]

That was the implication to

my little koan

, yes.

<3

But yeah that replace in isn't looking too good.

I'm ready to open my thread, but the rest of my day is divided between this and Saints Row IV, so stuff will happen.

[serrapaladin]

Nati has finally claimed, huh? Well thank god.

Spoiler: For Wisdom

Wis obviously didn't pick up on them, otherwise he wouldn't have shouted at me for 20 pages for not voting Nat.

[serrapaladin]

I got screwed over last night after thinking I had free time, but I'm not doing anything today, so I'll try to make up for stuff. I am sorry for my lack of engagement today, but life has been hectic.

Does anyone here know huntress? I sort of like her thoughts so far, but slimer was pretty horrible after his little spurt of defense D1 and I've only seen him replace out of scumgames.

[serrapaladin]

@ oooooohhhh fg

don't ignore me now

another question for you:

why do you not want to lynch penny or desp?

@ sera

by the way you reacted to that comment by nats I wondered if you had picked up on it too. but here is the thing; why didn't you try to help him out? it was after that play dropped from null scum to the bottom of a truckstop toilet.

Help him out how? As opposed to some people, I try to avoid pointing out softclaims. I made it clear I didn't want to vote him and wanted to compromise on someone else.

serra's slimer push was fake,

Go to hell.

[serrapaladin]

Does anyone here know huntress? I sort of like her thoughts so far, but slimer was pretty horrible after his little spurt of defense D1 and I've only seen him replace out of scumgames.

And this does not help either. He's apparently trying to change the read that he was pushing all game to a townread now.

Yup, how very devious of me to consider huntress' posts more townie than anything slimer had posted. You know, you pulling shit like this is the reason I really haven't felt the motivation to do anything this day.

[serrapaladin]

mollie, I don't remember, did you ever give a reason for why you think I'm scum? All I remember is you trying to push tater towards going after me by referring to our last scumgame...

[serrapaladin]

Bert, have you recently been told how very annoying you are?

Desp is probably still scum, his logic as to why I must be scum is hideous.

Unless Nati is fakeclaiming, which I don't think likely, Nati and Tater are conftown. Mantis is too, as is Bert (probably).

I really don't get what everyone sees in mollie, and why peng is scummy.

I think slimer's slot should just be policy lynched because he replaced out, but then I'd be either "pushing an easy mislynch" or "bussing" depending on how Wis is currently feeling (again, Wis even mentioning the word bussing before a slip is pathetic).

Good luck town, you'll need it.

[serrapaladin]

sera don't even. fg can get away with "ack! ack! ack! you are voting without reasooooon! scum!" but not you. you know me so don't even.

right now the most damning evidence is that you left nats out to dry and did not work try to work with him in any way. in fact, you did such a strong fade that it was almost a complete black out interspersed with promises of future activity that you never fulfilled.

you are scum sera, plain and simple.

But the Nati thing literally just happened and you've been convinced I'm scum.

[serrapaladin]

Well, at least the town has master scumhunters like you and wisdom, huh? <3

[serrapaladin]

Really, Wis? Which game? I've only seen him replace out of scumslots like this. He also sort of replaced out of the faith +1 open I linked earlier, but replaced back in. His lurking turning to complete apathy and replacing out I've only seen with scum-slimer.

[serrapaladin]

mantis and bert are not confirmed town.

funny cos in gchat mac and I are trying to figure out which 1 is your buddy!

No, but I have townreads on them. I never said anything to the contrary. What's your point?

[serrapaladin]

Really, Wis? Which game? I've only seen him replace out of scumslots like this. He also sort of replaced out of the faith +1 open I linked earlier, but replaced back in. His lurking turning to complete apathy and replacing out I've only seen with scum-slimer.

This.

Fair enough, that was pretty early in the game but I take your point. What's your read on huntress ignoring slimer's posts?

Mollie lining up lynches <3

mollie: how about we lynch me, and when I flip town we lynch you, then desp?

[serrapaladin]

Moreso when I think ure scum

Any good reason except being you being mollie's second vote?

[serrapaladin]

THAT THEY ARE NOT CONFTOWN LIKE YOU TRIED TO MAKE THEM OUT TO BE

Do you know what the word 'probably' means?

[serrapaladin]

when you flip town i will break down with such sadness because your play has been terribad in this game

Really, now?

[serrapaladin]

Eh, he's sort of right though.

mollie, you still haven't told me where I should have jumped in to save Nati? If you saw the crumb, why didn't you defend him harder? It's not as though he was in serious danger of getting lynched today, and there was not much I could have done at DL yesterday except a) not vote him and b) out his role, the second of which I opted against.

[serrapaladin]

^yeah, but seriously mac: do explain why you want to lynch Bert.

[serrapaladin]

Oh wait, shit. I didn't read that post correctly. Desp, how on earth can you think Wisdom is scum when you've also been "getting me lynched"?

[serrapaladin]

Umm

What?

[serrapaladin]

So you think we might be scum together? Or is wisdom just your next target for when I flip town?

[serrapaladin]

I'm not quite sure how I feel about the idea of investigating one of desp/me and if we turn up town lynching the other. I'm pretty sure desp is scum, but I don't see a good objective reason why one of use has to be scum.

I'm a bit surprised by Nati's claimed character. I'm not sure how many of you know Castle, but Meredith is his ex-wife and I don't see a particularly good reason for her to be a cop. I know it's only D2, but how would people about a character massclaim?

[serrapaladin]

Sup, serra, I just checked up on TVTropes for Castle a little.

What do you find more surprising: Meredith as cop or Beckett as VT(see: Lynx)?

Just caught up, btw. Serra, thanks for restoring some amount of faith in you. Desp, you're pretty fucking scummy.

To answer your earlier question, Wisdom, I'm reserving my judgment on FakeGod right now.

Huntress can die too.

Well, my character is a cop, too, and I'm a VT. Do you have any flavour justification for being a cop? Richard and Alexis being neighbours is flavoured correctly.

Characters we have so far:

fitz - Jerry Tyson (probably +fakeclaim)
Lynx - Kate Beckett
serra - Javier Esposito
FG - Jordan Shaw
Desp - Kevin Ryan
peng - Jenny Ryan
Wisdom - Alexis Castle
Mantis - Richard Castle

I'm not sure if it'll tell us anything, but I think it can't hurt.

@penguin: I find Serra scummy for attacking me when I started to attack nati. Serra is my second strongest scum read in this game. He derailed the fuck out of nati wagon near d1 deadline for one.

Do note: this read has strong basis in my nati scumread. If Nati flips town, Serra is town.

So you're voting me under the assumption Nati is fakeclaiming? Do you really think I would derail a wagon on my buddy like that? I don't like lynching people who softclaim a PR, particularly not if I have a townread on them.

1. In that post I quoted.

2. We don't know that for certain.

3. He had already claimed and was repeating it as requested

in the post immediately before his

.

Vote: Penguin

Her name claim matching Desp's seemed a bit too convenient and I didn't like the way she tried to get others to claim.

What?

[serrapaladin]

are you suggesting that there is some kind of insane cop possibility here and Nat's results will be all wrong

No, I was thinking more of

Godfather or possibly Tailor

. Insane cop is unlikely.

Why are you actively trying to find the reasons people scumread you? That's like... scumclaiming.

I'm not. I'm looking for why someone would suddenly want to get me lynched and letting the rest of you know in case they succeed.

Oh dear... Mentioning a role like tailor out of nowhere makes me wildly uncomfortable.

@Serra: Scum_serra derailing wagon for scum_nati makes perfect sense to me. Doesn't it to you?

Surely if my only goal at the end of D1 was to avoid Nati/me getting lynched, I would have just let the mantis wagon go through? Unless you think mantis is scum, too, but that's just a bit silly.

Serra I saved a nice warm seat for you please stay

if you don't want me to be annoying, please keep talking <3

<3

[serrapaladin]

fitz - Jerry Tyson (probably +fakeclaim)
Lynx - Kate Beckett
serra - Javier Esposito
FG - Jordan Shaw
Desp - Kevin Ryan
peng - Jenny Ryan
Wisdom - Alexis Castle
Mantis - Richard Castle

*and of course Nati - Meredith

rereading ~73-77 has me thinking fg is probably town with a poor read on Nati. Outing the cop like that is terribly reckless though. That'd be a pretty crazy move as scum.

@Serra: Scum_serra derailing wagon for scum_nati makes perfect sense to me. Doesn't it to you?

Surely if my only goal at the end of D1 was to avoid Nati/me getting lynched, I would have just let the mantis wagon go through? Unless you think mantis is scum, too, but that's just a bit silly.

Where did this happen? Link me plz.

Serrapaladin makes good points. Plus mollie generally reads Mantisdreamz well, and I trust her read here.

Mantisdreamz, intent to hammer. Claim, please.

Sweet Pertayter, if you're around, what changed between #513 and #597 on WRT Mantis?

If you're still around for a bit, don't hammer just yet.

I'm a bit busy for another 20 minutes or so, but I do still want to look through stuff.

Could we just have a role call of who's around at the moment, to see whether there is any use in discussing alternatives to mantis/me?

[serrapaladin]

Cop, tracker, and bodyguard? Nati's claim is looking a bit off.

It's not MyLo, so desp shouldn't be lying.

VOTE: Mantis

[serrapaladin]

If mantis is actually scum, the mollie slot is town.

Nati, why would scum-desp fake a guilty at this point?

Nati is pretty much caught-scum.

@Bert: you too, really?

[serrapaladin]

Desp & Nati: do you have any qualifiers to your roles?

[serrapaladin]

Well, I'm not sure desp would do this as scum. And if desp is telling the truth, Nati-town seems unlikely.

[serrapaladin]

Gut says mantis/nati might be telling the truth; logic says no. Last time I trusted my gut it went completely tits-up, so I think it has to be mantis.

@Nati: why would scum claim guilty on a claimed vanilla neighbour?

[serrapaladin]

Well, if mantis flips town, we lynch desp and know that we can trust nati. I seriously don't see how that would be a good scum tactic though.

[serrapaladin]

Well, I'm not sure desp would do this as scum. And if desp is telling the truth, Nati-town seems unlikely.

sucks, because i know he's lying 100%. which makes Nat's town to me.... unless they're pulling some gambit.

which could make sense. desp's scum partners will know that he's going to be lynched tomorrow after i flip. so they might distance from him today, so that they're not associated with his plan.

serra, does that above sentence make sense?

If you flip town, this is absolutely correct. I just don't think you will.

[serrapaladin]

Shit, actually.

UNVOTE:

Desp, are you sure you have your targets right?

[serrapaladin]

Shit, actually.

UNVOTE:

Desp, are you sure you have your targets right?

Don't go check. I know you're reading this, so answer!

[serrapaladin]

Killing Potato doesn't confirm shit.

No, we kill mantis today.

[serrapaladin]

Come on, desp. I know you wouldn't just disappear!

[serrapaladin]

One mislynch gets us to Mylo with no flipped scum. Are you obfuscating stupidity or just actually this dense? That's all the motivation needed for scum to do this and he had plenty of suspicion on him near the end of D2

But it also gives us 1 confscum. Unless scum were sure desp would be today's lynch, it doesn't make sense, no matter how patronising you are about it.

[serrapaladin]

@Nati: I don't think it's likely, but roleblocker + 2 goons + sk against cop, tracker, and bodyguard isn't THAT townsided. 2 anti-town kills needs a lot of power to balance. In any case, you of course lynch the guilty, not the claim you think is fake...

[serrapaladin]

Desp: why claim you tracked huntress, when it was slimer?

[serrapaladin]

Can we do a quick swap to mantis as today's lynch?

Fucking...I'm not letting a no lynch happen here. I'm not home yet(another hour will suffice), but I am watching the thread. VOTE: mantis. We have a little time still, come on guys.

I do have a problem with a Nati/Mantis team given this...

[serrapaladin]

Nati, if desp is scum, do you think he came up with leaving you alive and claim a guilty?

[serrapaladin]

I don't think that was the time to distance, to be honest.

[serrapaladin]

@Nati: how much do you bus as scum?

[serrapaladin]

Then stop sounding so fake, mantis! :/

@wayne: mantis claimed not to have a night-action. Stop being stupid.

[serrapaladin]

3 is site meta. 2 is actually more balanced, but less common.

[serrapaladin]

I don't think that was the time to distance, to be honest.

Why? Do you really think a Mantis flashwagon was viable?

And the totally dropped it on the next page with no prompting, even though you voted with her.

Totally. Peng did have intent to hammer on her not much later...

[serrapaladin]

You make very little sense, egg.

[serrapaladin]

You CAN give neighbours any ability you want. Mantis claimed to be JUST a neighbour though.

[serrapaladin]

Mala told me this is a normal game

Sorry, what?

[serrapaladin]

Wait, how are we getting setup info out of Mala?

[serrapaladin]

VOTE: Mantis

I'm pretty sure this is the right lynch for today.

[serrapaladin]

For the record it was stated that this was not a bastard game and it has been reviewed for balance.

I do not mod bastard games.

Not bastard =/= normal

ffs

[serrapaladin]

Right, despite waynegg's posts making the bottle of whiskey in my desk seem particularly appealing, I've sort of organised my thoughts:

Fine. I'll lay it all out there. I want Desp the most because I can see him wifoming out of it if he isn't lynched today.

Here's Mantis's slip

Spoiler:

734 neighbors don't get day talk. I've had that role too
many times and this was a day start. Busted! Checked with Mala
and this was daystart so there's no way that during D1 these guys
had been able to talk in QT at all, if they're neighbors. Crying that
literally nobody called this obvious slip out, though for a moment I
thought that FG was going to. Since he touched on it and then didn't,
he earned a weak scum read for his efforts.

1848 FakeGod asks if the neighbors get day talk

1849 Wisdom: "We don't."


REKKKTTTT!!!!

And my thoughts on Serra which includes why Mantis's slip links directly to him

Serrapaladin ~ Claimed VT Javier Esposito

Spoiler:

20 early scum; AA isn't nice town when voted
130 yeah, much too nice for AA town. She's scum. From
the faked anger to the gentle deflecting.
308 comes on, discredits, disappears

And then serrapaladin comes in and wrecks this, though the slot could still be scum. As good as serra's initial play is, it doesn't erase the original slot holder's definite scum meta. However, 438 is pushing hard with reasons for Slimer to be scum. But he wasn't. In fact, this derailed a couple of decent wagons for what the players

did

instead of what they didn't do.

466 in response to PA's 465 looks like Serra may have been
caught with his pants down...
510 how do you know they would have been mislynches? Maybe
he should be Policy for the information it would give... Besides, he
should be dead by now from a NK if nothing else for his rep...
577acknowledging the claim while pointing out that VT is the most
common mod provided safeclaim. The fact that this came out almost
completely unprovoked doesn't help its legitimacy.
732 link to Mantis
779reminds me of the trial in Idiocracy...

So, here's the poop on Serra. He isn't in this game like others and hasn't followed through on some stuff he's said he's gonna do. His 732 is particularly damning. The moment Wisdom confirmed they didn't have daychat in 1849 he should have been all over Mantis for that slip because it was his original line of questioning. That means he had intimate knowledge that he couldn't simply forget.

fixed a code error ~Mala

Look, I appreciate that you're trying to overhaul the entire game, but the underlying assumption that none of us has been paying attention is pretty awful. Mantis mentioned they had pregame talk, which is very common even without day talk.

I don't even know what to say about your 'case' against me... If you think me asking mantis about her discussion with wis is "damning", I think you may need to reconsider how you play this game.

Now, this situation really isn't that complex, so it's pretty shocking that FG and Nati are the only ones on the ball (if on opposite sides, of course).

This post is good, and is a pretty accurate representation of what my paranoid half thinks:

Because. He was in a bad position--ignoring Waynegg for a minute--the rest of us all thought Desp was suspicious as fuck! I distinctly didn't investigate him

because

he was so obviously scum that I was going to push his lynch anyway. If he did something timid like claim VT or some shit, we'd already be on night three. So, no, I think the scum team decided to go for some big plays. If it worked, hey, they managed to get two lynches out of Desperado before death. And the game is in LyLo from then-on. If not, well, oh well, he was pretty dead in the water anyway.

Unfortunately, this is exactly the sort of more or less plausible conspiracy theory I use whenever I'm caught as scum. I agree that desp was a likely lynch target for today, so scum saccing him to get another lynch is certainly in the realm of possibility.

The alternative is of course that desp is actually a tracker and indeed got a guilty on mantis. Mantis may contest that she never claimed to ONLY be a neighbour, but that's bullshit. She was asked to claim to avoid being hammered and that claim was simply "neighbour", which means she doesn't have a night-action. If desp is a tracker, mantis is scum. It also probably means that Nati is scum, because cop+tracker+bodyguard in a 13p game is unlikely (but not impossible).

If he is scum, Nati has been hard-crumbing cop from mid D1, which is interesting. I want to say that makes his scumgame at least a bit rusty, because his entire spiel was just too obvious to back away from later, so he was somewhat prematurely committing to an investigative fakeclaim.

Right, a position that you knew would never gain any traction. Until now anyway.

Then why didn't I lynch serra?

The simplest explanation would be that you had been townreading me and as long as there was a chance to lynch someone else, prematurely agreeing to compromise on my lynch would have been suspicious. Had you deadline-switched to scumreading me, I would certainly have fought back.

Fallacy. Any scum lynch gives equal information because connections can be drawn from the lynch. I also find it less likely for Mantis to be scum than Desparado. Not that I don't see Mantis as scum, because I can see that. The difference is that I

do

see scum in Desp.

But you're looking at it from a biased point of view.

You're assuming that Desp will flip scum.

Spending the last 54 hours (I slept less than nine of those) reading this game and drawing connections with yarn and pictures on my wall hardly makes me biased. I went into this with a completely open mind and had 2/3 of my connections drawn before I ever received my role pm. That's as unbiased as you can get.

This post bothers me a lot.

also Desp, who do you say my partners are then? you're rolling with Nat as one. how about the other??

VOTE: Mantis

I'm pretty sure this is the right lynch for today.

again, terrible.

serra feels he did *just* the right amount of questioning for desp, and now feels it's safe to place his vote on me.

This just isn't true. I never said I was convinced desp was telling the truth. I simply made the judgement that a mantis lynch is objectively the RIGHT lynch.

For the record it was stated that this was not a bastard game and it has been reviewed for balance.

I do not mod bastard games.

Not bastard =/= normal

ffs

and then serra tries to shift attention here by focusing on waynegg questioning the mod

You're not even trying any more. Waynegg made a false statement about the setup which I corrected while implying he's a bit of a moron. No "attention shifting" here. Notice how I didn't invite discussion about the setup, but rather wanted to avoid it by clearing up the misconception.

I'll admit I haven't completely decided whom to believe, but unless you anyone knows with 100% certainty who is telling the truth, mantis is the better lynch. My reads so far have had Nati/mantis as town and desp as scum, so I really want to believe them. On the other hand Occam's razor doesn't like Nati's description above at all, as it requires a decent level of scheming by the scumteam. It also requires that the scumteam felt desp was a certain lynch for today, which I'm not sure is true.

As to why mantis is the optimal lynch if you're unsure which side you believe, it comes down to information and desp being a claimed PR. If we wrongly lynch desp, we've lynched a PR, whereas wrongly lynching mantis only costs us a neighbour. If mantis flips town, we know to instalynch desp, whereas if she flips scum, desp is basically conftown and nati is likely scum.

On a completely unrelated note, Bert has sort of been pinging my scumdar today.

[serrapaladin]

@Waynegg: please shut up and read the game.

@Mantis: Not really

Wisdom hasn't commented much, if at all , about you recently. Plus he may have talked to u before d1?

Sorry phone access only for the rest of the night :/

we talked pre game.

also
VOTE: serra

We already knew the neighbours didn't have day talk, so kindly fuck off.

[serrapaladin]

*deep breath*

Sorry wayne, that was too harsh, but this game has really been getting to me and I thought I finally had some breathing room with Wisdom no longer tunnelling on me.

<3 FG

[serrapaladin]

I say that people vastly overestimate how good they are at reading others. If without assigning subjective "probabilities" there's an objectively optimal course of action, that should trump reads.

I don't much care for what mantis is currently saying, to be honest. She's either caught scum or wrongly accused townie, either of which will lead to flailing.

I'm concerned about what the people not involved think.

[serrapaladin]

@Waynegg: please shut up and read the game.

@Mantis: Not really

Wisdom hasn't commented much, if at all , about you recently. Plus he may have talked to u before d1?

Sorry phone access only for the rest of the night :/

we talked pre game.

also
VOTE: serra

We already knew the neighbours didn't have day talk, so kindly fuck off.

This is what caught scum looks like

How about you quote me that tidbit where Mantis said they had pregame talk, cause when I read the game WORD-FOR-WORD twice I must have missed it both times. Maybe you just thought he did because it was in you scum QT or something.

>I quote where she said she talked to Wis pre game.
>You quote that post and ask me where she said that.

Whiskey it is.

[serrapaladin]

If I didn't have you, FG...

[serrapaladin]

Nati, if you weren't involved, can you see where the positive judgement about lynching mantis comes from?

[serrapaladin]

That "positive" should probably read "positivistic", as in not normative.

[serrapaladin]

I say that people vastly overestimate how good they are at reading others. If without assigning subjective "probabilities" there's an objectively optimal course of action, that should trump reads.

I don't much care for what mantis is currently saying, to be honest. She's either caught scum or wrongly accused townie, either of which will lead to flailing.

I'm concerned about what the people not involved think.

OK. I get it.

There is no RIGHT move here, you said OPTIMAL

is that RIGHT? BEST?

That's likelihood. If you're in this position 100 times, lynching mantis will have better results than lynching desp. I trust stats more than reads, particularly when some of those reads come from scum.

[serrapaladin]

If desp is scum, he is of course the best lynch, but I'm wrong about my reads a lot and I'm sure you are too. You need to be more than 50% certain of Desp being scum for his lynch to be the better option, and I think that's a vast overestimate of town's ability to read people.

[serrapaladin]

Question: why do you only get envolved with the game and make longpost 1) when you're facing heat and 2) with the sole intention of saving yourself?

I get involved with this game when it's interesting. How am I currently facing heat or saving myself? I'm not getting lynched today. If this were true, I should be less active now than ever. I was bored yesterday because the first half was Wisdom repeating the same point over and over, and overall reads just weren't very well thought out. At the end of D1 there was a concrete reason for me to engage which was agreeing on a DL lynch.

Pregame talk in no way suggests a night start...

[serrapaladin]

Is 50% arbitrary? :/

Well, we're choosing to lynch between two people, aren't we?

[serrapaladin]

That "positive" should probably read "positivistic", as in not normative.

So basically go with gut because everything else is rubbish?

Quite the opposite, actually.

Spoiler:

[serrapaladin]

Positive analysis is the rational one, but lets not argue definitions.

Nati, I completely agree the hammer was awful, but do you really think it was bad enough for scum to think that doomed desp?

[serrapaladin]

@wayne: that's fair.

@mantis: what sort of phone do you have? Mine does all formatting fine.

Basically, I do really want to trust my reads here, but when there's something more objective than my reads pointing the other way, I don't think I should hold on to my reads too much. I really think across all the games I've played town has been hurt a lot by people sticking to reads when they shouldn't.

[serrapaladin]

Also, one part of what I meant by "Occam's razor" that I haven't really stressed enough is that desp-scum requires scum having a roleblocker AND believing desp would be lynched AND thinking of the fakeclaim to have desp take someone down with him. desp-town

just

requires my reads to be wrong.

@Bert: I didn't really mean this game. I was actually positively surprised that Wisdom stopped tunnelling on me halfway through yesterday. Both of my recent town-losses fall under the category of town trusting in something other than logic.

[serrapaladin]

I usually agree with that sentiment, serra. And if you'd been the one to claim Tracker, I might have fell for it. But, not Desp. No way in hell.

So you're saying you're convinced I'm scum now?

[serrapaladin]

ohsweetfuck

VOTE: Wayne

I missed you <3

[serrapaladin]

I do still think your overall play is mostly town, Bert, but I really didn't like how you reacted at the start of the day. Whoever it was that called your post "gloating" pretty much mirrors my thoughts.

mara, I don't think wayne is today's lynch, so if we mislynch we're stuck with him.

[serrapaladin]

I don't want Waynne to get into mylo

regardless of who he replaced in

No. It's because she knows I go bonkers at LYLO. I'm fine at MYLO.

You know MyLo = LyLo, except that at MyLo you're probably going to no lynch, right?

[serrapaladin]

It's more a, I don't really trust his decisions in mylo or lylo

Desp tracked Mantis to the kill?

Yes, well I guess you have some reading to do.

It's basically desp vs nati/mantis...

[serrapaladin]

UNVOTE:

Finish reading first, marple.

[serrapaladin]

Look Serra

you just taught me what I should stop doing so I don't become lynchbait in games without friends around

no one told me before that my game spirit/gloating looked really bad

I mean, Nacho confused me by telling me how town I looked in Popcorn when I was acting like myself. It's like GIFs, no one told me until Mollie. You didn't even say it in the feedback in your game's post-game comments. That confuddles me

bah

Who

who are you

Well, your overall play is loose enough as either alignment for people to not really notice, which is why I didn't say anything in mine, but posts like the following are normally pretty decent scumtells:

Yay a no kill!!!!!

Yates, maybe tell us how your grilling of KA went last night?

Do you have an example of you reacting to a night kill (or lack thereof) as town?

[serrapaladin]

WHO KILLED MY WISDOM

I will seek revenge

I will win it for you, Wisdom!!!!

You mean like this, right Serra?

Yup, it was the one you pointed out earlier, I was just too preoccupied with the claim stuff to look at it then.

[serrapaladin]

Grrrr.

How do you NOT see the rationale? We had our spotlight on him--Wisdom, Serra, mollie, me, we all were looking at him hard. He saw a chance at a mislynch, takes it. Today, he comes in, claims a powerful role, gets another mislynch and dies. He was likely tro die anyway!

Because maybe its a tayter, Bert, Desp team? You know you can't convince scum they're scum

Tater-scum more or less implies Nati-scum.

[serrapaladin]

Nah. It implies GF. Why I asked if I should kiss her ring...

I know, but I refuse to consider that option.

[serrapaladin]

Just asking because it isn't exactly townie to give scum 3 freebies to get to LyLo with a full scum team. I realize I'm not your optimal choice for replacement but ya gotta work with what you've got. It's also kinda interesting scum didn't kill you, a Cop cleared town, when taken from the scum perspective of leave no confirmed town alive...

This also works the other way around, though. With desp-scum, killing tater just lends credence to Nati's claim. If we mislynch mantis, Nati goes tonight, desp is lynched tomorrow and scum kill tater, and we're in LyLo without conftown.

[serrapaladin]

If I were scum planning desp's fakeclaim, I would consider leaving tater and Nati alive the best option. Bert was perhaps the only person less lynchable than wis, but perhaps they didn't find him as threatening?

[serrapaladin]

Well when a Cop and a Cop cleared town are both left alive in favor of a Neighbor that had reasonable doubt still on him, one of the previous two is scum and one is setting the other up.

Not necessarily, they could both be being set up. I'm not going to believe a theory if it requires a GF.

See, I do like the desp-scum theory, with Mantis, Nati and tater as town, but it requires more assumptions than the alternative, and if we go for that option and desp flips town, it's the worst possible outcome.

[serrapaladin]

peng's analysis is good, but I'm not sure why that would necessarily make her town.

If this is a setup, scum thought of it, so I would expect them to have a better grasp of the situation.

I'm tempted to trust my gut and vote desp, but mantis would be the smarter call.

[serrapaladin]

VOTE: Desp

This game needs to end, one way or another.

[serrapaladin]

My thoughts are that I was hopefully right to trust my gut and that I hope the game doesn't go on like this. Wayne's running theory of tater-GF and the fact that he seems to think either way desp could flip would implicate me (I don't think that word means what you think it means) makes me want to dayvig all of you to have this over with.

Mantis, if you're scum, you might as well come out and say it. If desp flips town, you're being lynched tomorrow.

[serrapaladin]

No. Don't use the G word. It's used by scum to spread paranoia and bad town to justify their wrong reads.

[serrapaladin]

If Nats is town, tater should be treated as conftown.

[serrapaladin]

Scrap that, if Nats is town, scum have a roleblocker, so tater IS conftown.

[serrapaladin]

And we're back! So my desp read was right... That was still some pretty weird play by him. I really think a hard-push to get peng lynched would have made more sense.

Tater is conftown. Mantis-scum would be some incredible play by desp, but I really don't see it given her reaction. As much as I wish I could silence him, wayne is most likely town, too (particularly given macmollie's ragequit), leaving the remaining scum in {FG, peng, Bert}, with a mislynch in hand.

Why do you think PA is town? What do you think of Wisdom's push on her?

The one thing that counts in her favour is that she's been making a lot of sense, but that doesn't need to mean town.

[serrapaladin]

pedit: did FG tell you to say that?