Mini 408 - EXiLE Mafia, MOD ABANDONED

[Romanus]

I think it is a really bad idea to be telling everyone who we are nominating.

[Romanus]

The reason I don't like everyone giving up nominations is for the simple fact that there might be a mason group or power role based on the nominations. Would you like to put a target on that person's back for the mafia?

[Romanus]

Fine, I nominated Raging Rabbit twice

[Romanus]

So, by saying we shouldn't give out the nominations, then stating there might be a nomination-type power role, then coming out and pretty much telling you that I have a nomination-type power role, this is all evidence of being scummy.

Whatever.

And I used my ability in order to try and get us to as few people as possible nominated, I thought it would be better for the town with fewer nominations.

again

whatever

[Romanus]

So?

[Romanus]

I've never played in a game like this before, so I thought, without any experience, that having a fewer number on day one would be better. Not really sure why, but it was a judgment call. Now, since I am outed, the town can at least give me suggestions on how to use this power.

[Romanus]

I know, instead of playing mafia, or this version of it, let's play "Out-guess the mod." Cuz, that always works.

[Romanus]

Vote: Raging Rabbit

Your wild flailing attacks are stinking up the place.

You want to know the extant of my powers, why, so you know whether or not it is worth trying to kill me tonight?

[Romanus]

Sure thing

Confirm Vote: Raging Rabbit

[Romanus]

So, yellowbounder, you just bound in and cast even more suspicion onto me, just great, but remember. You can nominate me once, but I can nominate you twice

So there

[Romanus]

Actually, a lot of what is said could be taken at face value, but as of tonight, it all becomes wifom. I happen to believe that those numbers do tell us something. They are not absolute proof, but just another piece of the puzzle.

[Romanus]

The graph is evidence, one more piece of evidence, not conclusive, but still evidence. Why would anyone want us to simply ignore the chart. Unless, of course, it is saying something they don't want it to say.

[Romanus]

It IS, IS, IS concrete evidence.


American Heritage Dictionary: evidence--
A thing or things helpful in forming a conclusion or judgment.


The chart is helpful. I'm now done talking about this.

[Romanus]

RR --- Let the martyrish Skruffs thing go, it has begun to stink of role hunting. Actually, it stunk of role hunting a long time ago.

[Romanus]

But they just lie, and that's that. They say they nominated one set of people and just nominate someone else. Or, they say they are going to nominate people who are townies, and do it anyway and not have to worry about lying. The only way to do this is by forcing everyone to vote a certain way. Then when something goes wrong, we know who to blame.

[Romanus]

I'm all for that as well

[Romanus]

I thought that less nominees is bad for the town.

[Romanus]

I vote against telling the scum what we are going to do before we do it.

[Romanus]

My power is meaningless if I let someone else, who may be scum, dictate what is going to happen. There are too many good things that happen for the scum under this plan. Why nightkill someone who is up for Lynch tomorrow? There are other problems that I see in this as well, but since there are at least a few people who are refusing to cooperate, it isn't going to work, and is now, a moot point. Arguing about it any further is a red herring that the scum can stay out of and let us rip each other apart with.

[Romanus]

Nothing said above is any different than any other mafia game.

We, the people of this town, all have the same power, the vote, and in this case, the nomination. Deciding beforehand, making people nominate this or that person, that takes our power away. If we as a town can't find the scum, then we can't find the scum, we lose, etc, etc, etc. No different than any other game

To spell it out more clearly:

If we decide to nominate A B and C and let everyone know before hand, then the scum are not going to NK A B or C, especially if one of A B or C is scum. This lessens the town's power and give the scum more.

As for there being other bad things, that is not an empty statement:

There are other bad things, good for scum, that can and will happen with the scum knowing what is going on before we go to bed. Also, I would like to give the town power roles the opportunity to do what ever it is they do. Declaring beforehand and what not only takes away from the power roles we as a town have. What the hell good is a mason group if we just decide who to nominate before night?

I will reveal my nominations the next day, and will discuss who I may nominate tonight, but I will not declare my absolute intentions, nor will I obey what the "majority" tells me I should do.

Truth may not be democratic and neither is my power or anybody else's.

Finally, there is no way for the entire town to consolidate power, because we know for a fact that part of the town is working to sabotage us. This automatically means that whatever system we seek to set up is flawed and only benefits those who wish to sabotage it.

I believe the same info can be gained from revealing our nominations in the morning without giving away ourselves the night before.

[Romanus]

No more so than in a regular game.

You are acting as if we are just going to roll dice to see who to lynch tomorrow and the mafia is the only people with brains enough to actually come up with a plan.

If we don't reveal anything till morning, the most suspicious people will be up for lynch. Just like in a normal game, the most suspicious people get lynched.

Oh, and namecalling and what not, does nobody any good. I had valid points throughout my post and you know it. I don't know what your problem is.

than random lynch the following day based on who got the most votes

The person with the most votes gets randomly lynched?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!??!??!?!
Are you a retard??? Most votes means most votes, not random. Random is a roll of the dice. Nothing, from page 2 or so on is based on anything random. Everything is based on best guesses and information. Also, it is not Anarchy, any more than any other mafia game. A vig using his powers, that is anarchy. Do you think the scum should have a say in when and who the vig uses the powers on? Never.

[Romanus]

It is amazing; You are amazing. The way you can take whatever you want out of context and turn it to say things that it didn't say in the first place.

I also love how you can emotionally attack someone, and after they respond in kind, you go all stoic.

What I still can't figure is why you said no one likes playing with you. I mean, I can't see any reason at all for not wanting you in a game.

Oh, that is sarcasm, which, by your standards, are not insults.

Wow.

[Romanus]

[egotrip]Also, Romanus (and Ghyrt?), if you wanna flame me further and argue off-play points, I'd advise you to take a look at the RR General Discussion thread. [/egotrip]

[Romanus]

Our nomination plan needs to have three canidates, with just two the mafia can kill one and collectively vote to put somone else up. With three we open the possibility of hitting mafia and putting pressure on the mafia. Plus if the mafia kills one we will still at least have two scumie suspects left.

You are saying this as if the scum won't know who we are nominating. They are not going to make our job easier. They are going to know if any of our nominations are scum or not, and therefore can act accordingly. We, the town, in general, don't know, for sure, about anyone.

Let me make this as simple as possible:
The more the scum know, the more they can eff things up. The same reason you don't tell the Doc, or vig, or sheriff, etc what to do. Why, because it gives the scum an edge.

I mean, think about when anyone played and they were scum. What did you spend most of the time in the night talking about. Who is going to do what to who. Who might be this, who might be that. Who is best to take out, who best to leave in. If we give them our nominees on a platter, then all they have to think about is if one of them is in danger, whether to bus them, to kill someone outside the nominations for that night.

I believe that we make life a lot easier for scum if we just tell them our plans ahead of time.

I further believe that we should, in our first posts of the morning, announce who we nominated. This may force the scum to lie, which could put them in a pickle, or they tell the truth, and it may make them look bad.

[Romanus]

It has been weighed, it has been measured, and it has been found to be lacking.

[Romanus]

I'll encapsulate the argument:

First, we'll consider, for purpose of argument, everybody to have a power role: the nominator.

Now, let's look to normal mafia...

Why do we not reveal night action targets the day before unless it's absolutely necessary?

Because any premeditation of night actions that mafia can know about can and will be tampered with. Don't underestimate the creativity of the scum. Also, considering the flavor of the game, don't count out the presence of scum power roles that deal with nominations. Romanus' claim already shows us that there are nominatory power roles, and I would be surprised if none of these came up scum.

So, because of the unknowns, and because of the myriad of ways the mafia could tamper with the nomation process, I feel that it's better to pursue this on an individual basis. Allowing mafia to know who to kill to narrow down the lynch board is very much a bad plan; allowing them to know it at all, in fact, is bad, because if one of their own is on the platform, they can intentionally BROADEN selections through their sabotage.

The plan of revealing nominations before they're made is disasterous. Info is info, yes, but showing the mafia our hands so that they can surgically strike the weak points is in no way a good play.

QFT

[Romanus]

I still don't like it. Like you said, this does not take into account any power roles, which we know that they are out there. You say a whole bunch, but I don't know about that. It would only take one, the right one, to mess stuff up.

[Romanus]

I am favoring nominating Jack tonight.

Also,

MOD: Could we get a votecount?

I am also leaning toward a Cheesefan lynch today.

[Romanus]

I always find it more fun to let it lie for a while.

Thanks anyway.

I do promise an explanation before or with a vote.

With a nomination, I don't think I need to say much. Though I probably will.

[Romanus]

It doesn't mean we can't talk about it. And, in fact, talking about it, and giving out what your thoughts are is good for the town, and could be used to really foul up the scum.

Just another reason I think you are scum Cheesefan. Some of the things you have said appear to be very pro-town, but they also give me a feeling of being forced and not really helpful to what is going on.

I know, you are going to want a pbp or something like that. I still haven't voted for you, so still no huge post against you. At least now, you know why I am on you.

[Romanus]

I am still feeling cheesefan, way over and above the other people that are even up for lynch.

Overall, I just feel that Cheese has, as has been stated before, posted content that looks townish without really being overly helpful. Again, it just seems forced.

I am a little suspicious of Skruffs for the whole martyr thing, but I can see past that, I guess.

I'm still not 100% sure what to say about the Rabbit.

Rabbit -- if you really want advice, and I am starting to doubt that, drop the sarcasm. In this game, it just doesn't work. First, by definition, you are saying something you don't really mean. The other thing is that it is almost always directed at a person, and therefore taken as a personal attack. Even when not directed at me, I still think you are an asshole when you post sarcastic responses, which is almost every one. To conclude, when you are sarcastic, you are not really saying what you mean, and therefore your responses are open to interpretation, not the least of which being that you are just being an anti-town, scummy, asshole.

Also, you don't have to really think to be sarcastic, you don't actually site a case of your own, you just make fun of another idea or thought.

Hope that helps.

Additionally, with all of that sarcasm with the Rabbit, I'm not sure if he is scum or not. It is like a fog is around him, and I don't like it. Honestly it wouldn't hurt my feelings a bit if he got lynched, but my vote is going on Cheese.

UNVOTE

Vote: Cheesefan

[Romanus]

Skruffs and JDodge, just stop fighting, it is clear that you both are pro-town and are arguing about something you just won't agree on.

I think Cheesefan should die today and that we should put up the biggest lurkers for nomination for tomorrow. Or at least, that is my suggestion, not completely sold on it myself just yet.

As far as Jack goes, if Cheesefan is lynched, his alignment is going to help make up my mind about Jack. As of now, I do not think Jack is scum.

[Romanus]

ummmm, if you guys would shut up about how we should talk about scum and actually talk about who is scum, rather than voting for someone simply for disagree on this stupid shit, then maybe, just maybe the scum would have something to fear.

How about this, I am going to vote/nominate the next idiot who persists in arguing about how we are going to play this game instead of actually playing it.

You don't like that, I don't care. Let's talk about who should die, who we don't like and discuss how we are going to get them after we talk about who it should be.

I still want cheesefan to die today and am not entirely sure who should be on the block tomorrow, though I'm sure the next post is going to make up my mind for me.

[Romanus]

Creating discussion, for the simple sake a creating discussion is not good.

Let's look at the discussion that has been going on. We've got two townies IMHO, that are now at each other's throats and voting and trying to kill each other over opinions about how to play the game and how stupid one thinks the other is rather than actually looking to see who might actually be scum. Opinions about how to play the game are never scummy or townie, they are just opinions, and usually it is the scum that are going to take the obviously townie positions and just love to see townies duke it out over methodology rather than how someone is actually playing. At least, when I am scum, I love to see these types of discussions. Since I am not scum, I hate seeing this. And JDodge, your voting for Skruffs over this only further illustrates my point. You are not voting him for being scummy, but rather for being stupid. Stupidity is not scummy. It may not help the town, but it is not a determination that someone is scummy.

Then we also have Maz voting for Skruffs for stupidity as well.

Guys, the scum are loving this, and it gives us no, absolutely zero, information to base things for tonight or tomorrow. The built in excuse is that "Hey, I killed our cop because he was taking an obviously anti-town argument about playing this game and was being stupid about it. He deserved to die."

The scum win games because of this all the time. So, we either let it win the scum the game again or knock it off.

The choice is yours. I will not say another word about it.

[Romanus]

I am no longer reading Skruffs posts because he is a distraction.

[Romanus]

And all the while the lurkers lurk, the scum laugh and watch the town tear itself apart over crap that makes no difference at all whatsoever.

We can't even get everyone to post and you want the town to agree to nominations beforehand

whoever is advocating the town working together to this degree is just being naive.

Pragmatically, beyond everything else, it won't work, so why not just drop it?

[Romanus]

Scum act pro-town

[Romanus]

MOD

I request a deadline so I don't have to listen to this bickering any more.

[Romanus]

Skruffs, stop using the word "RANDOM." There is nothing that is random in this game anymore. Last night, that could be said to have been random, but it also wasn't. First, the scum got to talk and pick, which wasn't random, and obviously people nominated others for reasons, be they good or bad.

You may wish to call it somewhat choatic, or better yet, and more accurately, SECRET. I am getting more and more of a feeling that you want control because, well, scum want control.

I repeat, there is nothing RANDOM going on. So, therefore, your entire argument is crap.

[Romanus]

Hey Skruffs, why don't you shut up already and talk about who should be nominated for tomorrow.

[Romanus]

And yet skruffs, we are not discussing scumminess, and haven't in a very long time.

[Romanus]

And when is all this going to happen when we are still debating tactics rather than scum-hunting.

That is why I want a deadline, so that we can get to scum hunting rather than debating tactics.

[Romanus]

As an aside, Skruffs, I do see the use of a plan like yours in future days, just not today.

I actually would like to hear more from more people before I make comment on who I would like to see nominated. Mariyta is at the top of the list, with Ghyrt, and the other lurkers. I do hate lurkers, especially in a game like this. However, I do understand why someone would decide to stay out of this.

[Romanus]

And Mariyta just got knocked down a couple of rungs on the nomination ladder for me.

[Romanus]

Also, we are not completely playing this thing a day behind, as if nothing gets done tomorrow except what is going to happen the day after. WE STILL HAVE TO DECIDE ON SOMEONE TO LYNCH. Which, by the by, we haven't pulled off yet.

The amount of absolute statements about the game is getting crazy.

I am leaning toward a RR nomination right now, possibly Ghyrt. Though the lurking is decreasing.

I still think Cheesefan should die today.

[Romanus]

I'm voting Skruffs for the way he said he was going to try and get rid of the people who disagree with his position.

And voting for someone for any reason other than their scumminess, is extremely scummy.

[Romanus]

So, JDodge, you are going to do almost exactly what Skruffs is doing.

Finding other reasons to lynch someone, I mean other than trying to prove that they are, in fact, scum, is a very bad thing, and if you are not scum, you are only helping them out. Too many built in excuses for a game that is going to take a bit of finesse anyway.

[Romanus]

This game is going nowhere.

QFT

[Romanus]

JDodge, I know that me saying this is going to look bad, but what you just posted is the most idiotic, illogical, etc, etc, etc, thing I have ever read in my life.

You pretty much just stated what I have been saying all along, that the scum want us to fight about tactics because it will tear the town apart, but I'm scum for suggesting it.

I am so exhausted over this game.

unvote

VOTE: Skruffs

And I could really give a damn what anybody thinks about it, and I really don't care to give any reasons for it. I'll deal with it tomorrow if it comes to that.

[Romanus]

Was that supposed to be some kind of retraction?

[Romanus]

Here are the options as I see them:

Cheesefan -- MIA-we have to wait for a replacement and play the whole, that was then this is now, I can't be held responsible, etc,etc,etc,etc. I do not wish to do that. I do think we need a Cheesefan replacement and a little activity before today ends however.

Skruffs -- Although not as scummy as others, I think his lynch would provide info. I am not saying anymore about that.

RR -- started lurking, but provided reasons. I think he got more prudent.

JDodge -- I just don't know. I do favor keeping him around, I think more info will be gained with him alive than dead.

In short, this day needs to end.

[Romanus]

The first thing needs to come before the second.

We need to have a Cheesefan replacement that is going to participate quickly, so that the day can end.

[Romanus]

I thought it was the hammer, and if that is the case, then good, and I'll take the heat. They should build me a statue for ending this god-forsaken day.

[Romanus]

Whatever

[Romanus]

Either way, I didn't put my vote there just to be posturing.

[Romanus]

Checking in. Can't say I am surprised by my nomination. I want to hear some stuff from our Ghyrt replacement, so

Vote: Rangerofthenorth

[Romanus]

See? This is what freedom brought us; a cornucopia of opportunity.

QFT

[Romanus]

I put both my votes on Ghyrt

[Romanus]

I am still around, will read and post soon

[Romanus]

My deepest apologies for not posting in such a long while, real life is kicking my butt.

However, from my read, I still think Dean is scum. Not entirely sure if I stated this before.

I further apologize since I am one of the people nominated and two others haven't posted anything or very little (ghyrt [or replacement], and RR).

I know I am condemning myself with this statement, but, if nominees aren't going to post, this is going to get really tough.

I believe my vote is on the ghyrt replacement, and it will stay there until we get a response or another nominee gets more scummy.

[Romanus]

JDodge -- I think you are right about one, very possible on another, and completely off on the third.

[Romanus]

Only concerning one of the people in his list

[Romanus]

JDodge -- He knows I am town because he knows who the scum are (he being one himself) and everybody else must be town.

And, it is neither ridiculous or idiotic to try and buddy up to someone who suspects you. It is, however, scummy, which is the only category that really matters anyway.

[Romanus]

Unvote

Not sure why I am voting for JDodge when there are clearly more scummy/lurky players out there.

We really have to get the people who have been nominated to get into this game.

Dean -- there can't be much against RR right now, because he has been gone for a very long time. Any case against him is very stale, but I do remember liking his lynch some time a long time back, but I want some posts from ghyrt-replacement, if we ever get one.

[Romanus]

I went back and looked and the only person I voted for was RangeroftheNorth, who replaced Ghyrt and is due to be replaced. Not sure I mentioned this, but I really refuse to move my vote off of Ghyrt-replacement until they contribute and give me reason to move the vote.

Vote: RangeroftheNorth -Ghyrt - replacement

[Romanus]

Hi. How are you? I'm waiting for the necessary numerous replacements of people who haven't posted in a month.

There is little reason to play this game with half of the nominees absent. When they show, then this game will hopefully get back on track.

[Romanus]

is this game dead yet or what?