[Mini 1447] Misaligned Malignant Multi-verse Mafia (abandon)

[Whiskers]

[Whiskers]

vOTE: zDENEK

[Whiskers]

Because I'm obvtown

[Whiskers]

Being invested heavily in the game isn't alignment indicative, Scum can also be very invested in the game. A couple of days into Day One? Agree to disagree there.

[Whiskers]

I have a good feeling about this: Unvote, Vote: Whiskers From what I've seen, he's never been this passive as town.

[Whiskers]

[Whiskers]

Actually I'm just being a dick.

[Whiskers]

Re:FourTrouble
I've played with him twice before, both times read him as really, really town, both times was really, really wrong. As for my playstyle: it's hard to both have (or fake) an image-only post restriction and take a large part in the day's activities. I guess it's ok for him to think I'm underactive if he thinks my post restriction is fake, but I'm not sure why he thought that in the first place.
In any case, "whatever." I'm not interested in FT.

[Whiskers]

What, didn't you believe I had a posting restriction?

[Whiskers]

I dunno. Maybe I blew my cover earlier than I should-- but like I said, I was goofing around.
I did find it interesting that nobody even mentioned me until like, page four, even though I'd been posting pictures since page 2.

[Whiskers]

I think that there is scum motivation in deciding to play to a meta rather than playing naturally.

Disagree here. Playing to my scum meta significantly improves my game over my town play.

...for those of you who would immediately discredit me as being a shitty player-- you haven't seen my regular town play.

[Whiskers]

^I like this post.

Fu: I'll have to go back and reread, because I honestly don't remember why I was voting for you.
If I don't find a reason I like, or it's not strong enough still, I'll vote for zdenek probably.

[Whiskers]

Err, I like the points he makes. Not that I verified them, so I also like the post where you go "Yes, actually I did do those things. "

[Whiskers]

And there were more players having doubts about his post restriction. TCS only said it clearly why it didn't work as Helen Keller. If others who were doubting the Post Restriction already would think that TCS has a point, then Whiskers could have been attacked by it.

So you think he stopped because he was being attacked and he was afraid of being caught?

^Pretty much this: if I were worried that I were being persecuted for having a post-restriction, I'd have redoubled my efforts to make the restriction seem actual, not have completely revealed it as fake.

[Whiskers]

That's ok, I'm not actually town.

[Whiskers]

2. is for both cases.
And there were more players having doubts about his post restriction. TCS only said it clearly why it didn't work as Helen Keller. If others who were doubting the Post Restriction already would think that TCS has a point, then Whiskers could have been attacked by it.

Actually, flavor wise, it could STILL make sense that Whiskers had a post restriction, and is lying about lying. Hellen Keller had no way to learn language until she was taught it through sign language. Whiskers could have easily had a post restriction where he could only post images until someone named hellen keller. Though, I kinda doubt that at this point. Whiskers, do you claim hellen keller, or was that just a troll claim? Not that it matters since you denied the posting restriction, but w/e.

No, I'm not hellen keller, nor do I have a posting restriction. But that's kind of what I was going for after the third post or so, a post restriction that lifted when [x].

I want desperately to claim, but I'm not sure how useful it will be to me or you.

[Whiskers]

winrar

Unvote.

Vote: The Central Scroatinizer

[Whiskers]

I believe Avering believes what he's saying; so he's town. He's also wildly wrong; Tammy might be scum, I've no reason to think she isn't, but not for that.

I agree with this.

@Tammy: I'm unaligned. I don't have any role power, but it's made up for by the versatility of my wincondition-- basically I have the opportunity to win with any faction, if I'm careful. I guess I'm kind of like a survivor... but not quite.

[Whiskers]

Whiskers, if you can actually win with either side, why would you claim that so early?

Because for one thing, I don't want to be nightkilled.
Also, it's better (at least for me) to just say something earlier, because otherwise I'll be hinting at it up until the point when I claim.

Also,

I'd rather claim now than try to explain the role when I'm at the business end of a noose, as nobody will believe me.

[Whiskers]

Hm, how do I explain this...

And if you don't care about your personal wincon(as you claim) then why go out of your way to even mention it? And what does that have to do with why you think TCS is scum?

is answered here

Also, it's not that she doesn't want players to respond to her posts, just that there are other better things to talk about-- and you, specifically, had questions asked of you which you never answered.

ALSO, where's the WIFOM, Fuduzn? Where she said "No, the mod wouldn't answer questions about the setup, you moron"? Because that's not WIFOM; you're a moron.

[Whiskers]

Are we dead set on lynching TCS? Every post Fuduzn makes, I want to lynch him. Actually,

Unvote
Vote: Fuduzn

[Whiskers]

Do you even have a wagon, still? I was voting for you before but then a bunch of people bailed and moved to TCS-- My reason for voting him was even weaker than the one for voting you, but you're still kicking around looking like scum, so I don't see a reason not to move back.

[preedit]
It's not a slip-- it suggests that there

may

be more than two factions. But it doesn't actually give me any more information than you have.

[Whiskers]

It's not a slip-- it suggests that there may be more than two factions. But it doesn't actually give me any more information than you have.

And I think I should really emphasize this. I have no more information than a vanilla townie. I don't know who the mafia are so I can't really play "pro-scum," even if it would start benefitting me to do so. I am an uninformed minority, just a different minority from you.

[Whiskers]

Also, at the number of alternate win conditions I'm hearing about in softclaims, this rule in particular makes me a bit nervous.

-Factional win conditions may potentially end the game.

Rather than individual ones. Meaning that Tammy's, for instance, might let her win and leave the game, but the game still goes on.
I have to win WITH a faction-- like mafia outnumbering the townies, or town removing all threats-- which would end the game anyway.

So don't be any more concerned with factional wincons than usual; those are the normal ones.

Why don't you want to lynch TCS?

Because I want to lynch FuDuzn instead. I'm happy to lynch both of them, but I'm happier to lynch this one. I figured, since we have days and days and days, there's no reason not to vote my scumread over the current bandwagon; no reason to compromise on a lesser suspect when deadline is

not

looming.

[Whiskers]

I merely don't remember what it was. I'll get to a case before I expect people to follow me into a lynch.

[Whiskers]

I'm sorry Tammy, I didn't realize you didn't want people to respond to your posts.

And how does that wine you currently have in front of you taste?

And if you don't care about your personal wincon(as you claim) then why go out of your way to even mention it? And what does that have to do with why you think TCS is scum?

Will this do?

Let me put it shortly: gut.

There's some stuff before TCS got big and some stuff after but a bunch of it may be the tone he uses. There was also something about him maybe being a partner to TCS because maybe he was defending... but that's really speculative and maybe only came to mind because both he and TCS have been major suspects.

When I build a case, I'll know. And you'll know.

[Whiskers]

Why bother making cases when you can win with any faction?

Because it be

hooves

me not to be lynched.

[Whiskers]

Ok, I just looked.
My primary win condition would let me win with any faction, if all goes well for me. It's not automatic, but I'd prefer to win this way.
My

secondary

win condition is the standard town win condition-- which suddenly makes me wonder if I show up as green or grey on cop investigations.
My tertiary win condition requires I have powers that I don't have, AKA, there may be an enabler-type role.

[Whiskers]

Also Whiskers, if you don't want to be lynched, why did you say that you prefer winning with any faction? That sounds a bit anti town to me.

It's way more fun. Who wants to win with a standard town wincon when you can fulfil a different one? Anyway, my first con could have me win with the town anyway, it just depends on how the game pans out.

[Whiskers]

[quote="In post 225, Tammy"]

Votecount 1.9

FuDuzn (3) - FourTrouble, Empking, Zdenek, Whiskers,
The Central Scrutinizer (3) - Nachomamma8, Arc, Tammy
Tammy (2) - The Avering, The Central Scrutinizer
Zdenek (1) - Serrapaladin
Arc (1) - FuDuzn
Nachomamma8 (1) -
Whiskers (1) - PimHel

Not Voting (0)

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

FourTrouble will be replaced if he does not post in the next 24 hours.

---

Votecount should look like this.

[Whiskers]

Furthermore, you wonder if you show up as 'grey' or 'green' (did I miss something that you know this?) on cop investigation?

Yes. The "normal town" wincon is my second one, so I wonder if I'm town aligned or un-aligned.

[Whiskers]

Uh, you could do nothing.
The worst thing I can do to any of you is make good cases and hope they're on town and you mislynch them. I literally have no more information than a vanilla goddamn townie. Like I said, if I decide I want to go pro-mafia,

there's no way for me to, because I don't know who the mafia is.

So, what do you expect from me?
More-likely, I'm anti-town because I'm just sitting here yawning like a hundred other non-committed players. But

they

aren't admitting to being town, scum, possible backstabbers. I didn't claim to put a spotlight on myself, I claimed because, like a Miller, you claim when your role could be a hindrance to town.

[Whiskers]

I was getting heat?

[Whiskers]

Ok, time to sit down and do a case on FuDuzn.

If ifs and buts were candy and nuts.....

I don't think anyone said you were blunt, or an asshole. And I wasn't pointing out any spelling mistake(I actually unintentionally made a spelling mistake), I was just emphasizing how you thought Nacho's post was about the eloquence of your post.

And why are you trying to deflect me back onto TCS? Guys let's make this easy on ourselves, lynch Arc and call it a Day.

Posts like this feel overconfidend and... uh... forgot to answer... er...

Ok, so I looked, and the guy I voted early on was zdenek. Thought I was putting my vote back on

that

guy...
Yeah, I mix up players a lot.

So, let's take a look at zDenek!

Unvote

[Whiskers]

Looking at the Activity Overview, zDenek has Twenty posts. On the low side, but still in the middle; This isn't enough to zing him for inactivity, so let's move on.

First post that isn't one-line is

Nacho, why are you unvoting?
That was Arc making real-life excuses.

Arc, I'm not going to make a case against you just yet.

To put that into context, he was making real-life excuses in THIS post, saying he has a concussion when he wrote THIS post:

Eh, Emp is looking more town the more he posts. I was hoping to catch him on something definite.

UNVOTE:

I don't like TCS's reaction either, but with tells on so few of the players, I'm not comfortable jumping on the wagon just yet.

Zdenek, What makes me scum?

I'm not sure what's so bad about ^ that post to begin with, so I'm not sure why Arc is actually making the excuse. So in turn, Zdenek

kind of

attacking him for the real-world excuse

About Nothing

seems really... off.
It's after this post (zden's) that I vote Zden. Literally very next post.

And, that seems alright with me. But I'll keep going, since the game HAS moved past that point.

Post 63 he mentions he "Wasn't trying to lynch [Arc]". Might be scum coaching, since between these posts of zdenek's, both TCS and FuDuzn (You know, the

other

major wagons of the Day) jumped on him. They're both worthy of note:
FuDuzn, specifically, votes Arc

because

of the concussion excuse.
TCS votes Arc-- it looks like based on a scumslip, but not sure-- then unvotes him in his next post

after

FuDuzn says "hey, I wasn't trying to lynch him!"

Post 123 (yeah, his next post is 60 later. ugh...) he talks to both of these players...
By this point I feel less like I'm proving Zden is scum and more like I'm showing connections between these three. Well, anyway, I don't like the post. He

does

follow up with FuDuzn on the bit about hit meta, I guess that's good, but a different player really took up that fight and pushed it (Arc, iirc). The comment on Empking's line is null. He, I dunno,

informs

TCS of what he said-- I'd assume TCS already knew-- it kind of looks like an accusation but isn't. I can't put my finger on what it is about that part, maybe someone else can explain it. LASTLY, the vote also bothers me. There doesn't seem to be any reason for it, just a kind of RVS on page 5, when we've been out of RVS for a while.

[Whiskers]

Sigh!
I unvoted because I was voting for a person I thought was someone else. I had rolled these two characters together in my head so all the guts I was voting Zden for earlier was later applied to Fuduzn. I thought I was moving my vote

back

to the person I was voting before.

You're right. It's

not

a strong argument on zdenek, which is why I didn't vote him.
I don't think it's a stretch at all to see him as the ringleader of Zden/Fuduzn/TCS scumteam-- but "they're linked" isn't enough to accuse somebody of being scum, and "they look like they're linked" doesn't mean that they are.

Unfortunately, I think the gem in what I wrote last night is the bit on Posts 46 and 63; Zden makes an accusation of Arc, Fuduzn votes Arc based on the same accusation, Zden clarifies that he wasn't trying to lynch Arc, Fuduzn unvotes Arc because "eh, this wagon is fine too."
^And this is an associative tell. When one of them flips scum, come back to it. Until then, it's useless.

[Whiskers]

I can't find it.
Ok, then who the hell unvoted Arc?!

[Whiskers]

UNVOTE: Arc

VOTE: FourTrouble

I changed my mind. This wagon is ok.

I guess I was referring to this?
Which, in the context of his previous post...
Sorry. Not trying to completely fuck up. I thought I had a

much

better grasp on the game than I actually have.

[Whiskers]

Whiskers makes me want to bang my head against a wall in play style and in just general presence.

I've heard this one before...

[Whiskers]

Also, still not seeing anything about FuDuzn from Whiskers.

Good, they were crap for cases anyway.

@Serra
I'm not liking them. This is the only post which I can see as good.
But he didn't respond to all my questions about his wincons. He still isn't posting anything against FuDuzn. And the last scumhunting attempts are bad. It's only about connections. He's trying to appear town.

No, if I were trying to appear town I'd pull out some bullshit case full of lies and loaded questions and

lynch lynch lynch

.
I kind of specifically admitted that it's only about connections, thus "bad".
I don't intend to fullclaim soon.

Also, why do I want to appear town when I've outright claimed I'm not?

[Whiskers]

It's survivor-ish.
I'll fullclaim when I am certain I cannot win via my primary win condition. Otherwise, I worry someone would take steps to prevent it from occurring.
Why are we still talking about this?

[Whiskers]

Votecount 1.14

The Central Scrutinizer (3) - Nachomamma8, Arc, Tammy
FuDuzn (2) - FourTrouble, Empking
Tammy (1) - The Avering
Riningear (1) - Serrapaladin
Arc (1) - FuDuzn
Whiskers (1) - PimHel
FourTrouble (1) - The Central Scrutinizer

Not Voting (2) - Whiskers, Riningear

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

PimHel is V/LA until 5/20

---

I'll lynch whomever; even though I don't have reasons, I've liked all of the wagons today. Maybe I'm just gutty right now. Fuduzn tops my list, but Zdenek and TCS are also acceptable lynches imo.

[Whiskers]

Here's a question:
Do you have any scumreads?

[Whiskers]

((Also, why do people keep saying Tammy is saying things weird? I haven't noticed this at all. Can someone point out something she's said that was off somehow?))

I have meta-based things to say of Empking: "Deep Grey" and "Slow-playing lyncher" are very good ways to describe him, I think-- this is how I have always seen him play, afaicr.
I have meta-based things to say of FourTrouble: I played in two games with him in them. He was, IMO, very strongly reading town. I replaced into both of them. He was scum in both of them. I don't read him as really strongly town here-- that probably doesn't help any, but I'm just saying. Also, it's a totally non-standard game, so that tiny meta might be useless anyway.


[preedit]

Ok, a good time to post this anyway then. WHY is Tammy "grey" or scum? I've been reading her as "about as town as serrapaladin" but "twice as active as serrapaladin"-- in other words, very Townie.

[Whiskers]

Amished?

I had to look this up, and had to get it from context... are you saying I'm coming to a conclusion via a coincidence? Which part are you referring to?

[Whiskers]

ZD

IS

Rinin now, right?

Ok so, I'd be ok with that too.
FuDuzn, why Arc? (you can show me an earlier post if you explained it already and I'm merely stupid) I ask because I think it's your argument with him earlier over the concussion, is one of things that stands out to me in your ISO. Not sure if you were voting her before that or not, but I thought THAT was a really bad reason to vote-- scummy, opportunistic.

Since he was capable of and willing to re-explain after the altered state was gone, I especially don't think he was using the concussion as an excuse in any scum-motivated way.

[Whiskers]

Can you point out exactly where he did the deflection? I think I know where it is, but if it's where I'm thinking of, he was asking your opinion of

his

scum read and he wasn't really under much heat at all. Besides, like I said, it didn't look like he was using the "I have a concussion" in a scummy way, so why was he getting heat (from you, at least) in the first place?

[Whiskers]

Woooooooooooow.
Wow.

K, nevermind. Townreads be damned. Freak out and have the mod replace your slot when you've just kind of licked the envelope on your own lynch?

Idk why you freaked out anyway. God forbid people be suspicious of one another in a mafia game.

[Whiskers]

What I was

going

to quote before I read Tammy throwing a fit:

TCS last few posts are just talking about TV or something but nothing to do with the actual game,

There are a bunch of things like this, that's why you don't know what to make of me. Things that are just kind of like, "Eeeh... that's...

kind of

scummy...? *shrug*" But nothing really solid. Like, can you tell me that when a player talks about video games, they're necessarily scum? No. It's anti-town-- but it's not really anything you can lynch someone over.

[Whiskers]

but you should at least slow down enough for someone to have a chance at a counterclaim.

No. There should BE no counterclaim, ESPECIALLY if there is a town-vig.
This post, Arc, makes you scummy. Let me paint you the picture:
Tammy throws a fit (doesn't matter what alignment). Arc suggests somebody counterclaim vig. Town-aligned Vig counterclaims. Scum now knows that one, Tammy is a vig, and two, that Town-Aligned Vig is a vig. ALSO, Scum will now try to make them attack each other, even when it's completely possible for there to be two, three, four,

or even more

vigs.

tl;dr, a counterclaim does

nothing

for town, it only outs more roles. Arc is now rolefishing, and that is scummy.

Also: I will not lynch Empking yet. My thoughts on it are this: if TCS is scummy, we lynch him first. If Empking

does

turn out to be a lyncher, then he wins and leaves the game anyway. I don't see a reason in lynching them in the opposite direction, except to try to spoil someone's personal wincon.

[Whiskers]

Do you really feel that starting a large argument with a claimed Vig, arguing that it is a fake claim before you even allow anyone to offer up a counterclaim, not to be scummy? He went through no verification process, gave no method of trying to confirm or deny the claim, but instantly attacked the claimed vigilante? This just feels awful.

And... No...?
First of all, he had good reason to attack the vig. Look at his posts, it wasn't just, "BAAAH, IT'S A FAKE CLAIM, LYNCH LYNCH LYNCH!" Add his reasoning to the "I won't get lynched if I claim PR", and the nervous-odd claim time, yeah it could be totally fake.

Why would Town-Emp attack a claimed vigilante without trying to confirm the claim, or offering someone else the chance to prove that the claim is false?

Because a counterclaim wouldn't prove the claim is false

in any way whatsoever

[Whiskers]

Of course, Empking has already said all of this.

[Whiskers]

Damn it Tammy. I don't want to lynch you but I also don't want to die.

[preedit]
I (and a few others) said that.

[Whiskers]

Is there anything I can do to avoid getting vig'd? Would letting you evaluate my fullclaim give me a fucking chance? I can "win" even if you kill me, but getting told you can't play anymore isn't really "winning" for me.

[Whiskers]

I'll also say, Tammy, that the whole counter-claiming thing isn't on you-- I'm saying Arc shouldn't have suggested it, that

Arc

is trying to draw out more power roles. It has nothing to do with you, really.

[Whiskers]

Lynching me wouldn't be a productive move at all towards a town win, just to be straightforward.

Tammy and Empking are going at each other and doing a much better job at reading each other than I ever could at this point, and they're both of the people I was deciding between voting on today. One flips over town tonight, the other is my vote the next day unless something happens D2 that makes someone else look scummier.

So what you mean to say is, it

would

be productive toward a town-win to lynch you?

[Whiskers]

Tammy: Please shoot me tonight. My alignment follows whoever tries to kill me during the night, and I would prefer being town over scum. Original strategy was to lurk like hell until my alignment was defined so I would get shot by vig over Mafia and wouldn't really make myself much of a threat to anyone else.

So you're saying that you're basically unaligned at the moment? What happens if you get SKed or lynched?

If he's telling the truth, I wouldn't particularly want to waste a vig shot on him.

What the hell is it with you people and trying to keep people from their independent wincons?

That said, you've now become an asset to the town ((Hey look, scumhunting! In this game?!)) so I'd also be happy with another vi-- No, no, not me!! Damn it!

[Whiskers]

Oh also, nachos role or unroll and requirements basically means that there is definitely one member of the mafia here. So my everyone might be town right now theory is most likely wrong.

Please explain this, because I didn't understand any of it.

[Whiskers]

Empking, idr if you said it already:
What specifically

is

the relationship between your role and TCS's? You say you're not a lyncher, so...?

[Whiskers]

Oh! See, I assumed that he would die. If he lives, yes, that makes him an

excellent

candidate for vig.

[Whiskers]

I know what my role pm says.

You make me want desperately to vote for you.

[Whiskers]

Ok, here's the thing Tammy:

"I'm not scum, I'm not scum!"
Isn't a good defence.
Yes, I'm having a bit of OMGUS since apparently I'm 100% tonight for the shot that

you

have control of, but maybe it would change that if I just yell,
"I'm pro-town! I'm pro-town!"

Empking has made a bunch of points against you in the course of this argument. And yes, many of them are twisting, or WIFOM. But you answering with more WIFOM ("I'm town," "I'm honest," "I'm not dumb," "I'm not fake,") and Appeals to Emotion (your fucking eruption, "Don't you want town to make it to day 3?", "mark anyone on my wagon," emphasizing text in empking's post to try to point out a contradiction that wasn't,) are fucking childish and stupid and scummy.

No, we don't think you're scum... probably. But just about everything empking says with regards to you is a legitimate concern. Your defence so far has largely been "but I'm town, so that's not true."

Fucking
Stop.

[Whiskers]

No, we don't think you're scum...

THEN VOTE FOR ME AND LYNCH ME.

Fuck you.

Be nice :/

[Whiskers]

Why aren't you voting for Rinin?

Because don't feel I can put my vote on him without looking/being scummy, and because the sooner this Day ends, the sooner I get

shot.

I basically wasted my shot to turn Nacho into town,

...Why?

because I'd rather have a town win in this game than not,

WHY!? What the hell is it with everybody and wanting to be town? Do you think it's just more likely that Town will win? Do you figure that if you pick the side with more people (probably) on it, they'll like you more and not want to lynch you?? Like, really, I don't get the obsession with being town. If you're a 3rd party or unaligned, why do you want to become town as opposed to something else? If "God" seems like a town role to you, who cares? Why don't you want to kill it and leave the game with a win, townies-be-damned?

and God sounds like a town role.

Yes, because in a bastardmod game, roles are always the alignment you'd first think they belong to-- like Patrick Bateman and Adolf Hitler being town.

Since my shot can ONLY kill god, I'd rather use it to trust nacho than use it to kill a probable townie.

Then IMO, you're a fool, or at least you're not confident in your abilities to sus out God.

Also: As Empking said-- that calls Tammy's claim further into question, though not much since, like I already said,

literally everyone could be a vig, it's a fucking theme game you idiots

.

[Whiskers]

Because don't feel I can put my vote on him without looking/being scummy, and because the sooner this Day ends, the sooner I get shot.

You're going to get shot unless you can find a way to actually contribute to town.
So what are your reads?

No, I'm going to get shot. There has been no stipulation, I've been given no outs. Since you don't control the bullet, and Tammy doesn't seem interested in fucking discussing anything other than how much she is town at the moment, I'm getting shot.

[Whiskers]

Also I just realized that nacho will be able to confirm arc as town. And if he's not town if either of them flips the next one is confirmed. And I really really doubt that arc would do this as scum.

Yeah, except not. This is stupid:
-If Nacho is now Scum, is he going to out Himself and Arc as scum? No.
-If Nacho is now Town, will him "confirming" himself and Arc as town be anything but WIFOM? No.
-If Nacho and Arc

are

scum now, is scum going to kill them? No.
-If Nacho and Arc

Are

scum now, and they "confirm" to you that they're town, will

YOU

fucking shoot them? No.

So basically-- you just realized nothing.

[Whiskers]

So, those of you with a secondary town win condition, are you town? I didn't consider myself town, because my primary wincon wasn't explicitly town. It sounds like Arc, Tammy, for example, have similar setups.

[Whiskers]

Also, I don't KEEP him alive, but I have to figure out who it is, and when I do through the mod telling me my wincon has been achieved (I think) I just have to save their ass since I assume at least one other person wants him dead.

If Arc outed Nacho as God by killing him, wincon gone, I lose, but the game goes on.

So this is your

only

wincondition?

There

is a reason for me to vote you.
'Course, we're waiting for modstuff.

[preedit]
Firstly, that doesn't answer the question,
Secondly, that's a personal win condition, not a factional one. It does not end the game.

[Whiskers]

Do you have a third wincon?
y/n

[Whiskers]

Re: FuDuzn:

Read some of that longass post, but skipped most of it because it's referring to things I don't remember and since there aren't links or any sort of sorting system or anything, it's really useless to me, unfortunately. Maybe someday I'll go through and find each of the posts on their pages and flip back and forth between browser tabs to try to figure out what you're talking about, but today we're playing Pathfinder.

[Whiskers]

Re: riningear:

Agression =/= scum. Town should not be required to be frail-ass wimps. While townies are

uninformed

minority, attacking super hard to get their opponent lynched, as though they

know

the other player is scum, is a

good

thing, not a bad one.

^Not super-well phrased, but you get my point.

[Whiskers]

OK, so a couple of things before I go to my other games:

Unvote, Vote: TCS

I'm seeing some semblance of a thought process behind riningear's posting, going to look chill here for a little while.

So you are saying that scum can't appear to have a townie thought process? I don't get your reasoning here to take your vote off of her.

This.
When anyone who makes a townpost gets a free pass, we are policy lynching. I wasn't aware that was the plan.
Next:

riningear

That's really weird, we've talked to a couple of people now who have admitted that their secondary win condition was town, but that they also had a third one.

@Nacho: Hey, remember when you were trying to negotiate with me over Tammy's shot? Yeah, I still don't see

any

confirmation from her that I can do anything to save myself.

@Tammy: I vaguely remember you made a post about how my attitude was anti-town because I don't want to play Mountainous-- I won't know if I even CAN fulfil my primary wincon until two people die. Oh yeah, and, thanks for confirming that there's absolutely no way out of you shooting me.

@

I have some information regarding this God business but I'm not allowed to talk about it. I get burned by lightning or something like that if I do.

Unvote, Vote: Rinin

forgot to unvote last time...

Vote: FourTrouble

[Whiskers]

Vote with no reason. He's been largely lurking. He's not answering Rining's Qs. He's not coming across as super town to me.

[Whiskers]

Vote: FourTrouble

Why FT?

Wait wait wait wait, why do

I

have to answer this? FT doesn't have to answer it. When he's asked FuDuzn gets sand in his snatch and is all like "Oh, well we don't all like to write novellas when we vote for someone"

Bullshit, nacho.

[Whiskers]

Well, I literally answered you.

Besides, I'm in two games with you and right now can't remember who replaced who in what or is scummy in which, let alone why.

[Whiskers]

So explain to my why Whiskers doesn't want to die(either by lynch or vig)?

Anyone, please. Or is he normally this batshit crazy?

Because Whiskers claimed survivor-variant.

No, actually. I'm not a survivor, my role has nothing to do with staying alive.

But who the hell wants to die?

So, those of you with a secondary town win condition, are you town? I didn't consider myself town, because my primary wincon wasn't explicitly town. It sounds like Arc, Tammy, for example, have similar setups.

Yes, it's town. My primary one isn't necessarily not town, I guess. I just am supposed to shoot one of two people, it doesn't say the alignment of those people though.

Ok, well, let me put it this way:
You are even more dangerous than I, since my primary wincondition is passive, and you primary win condition

allows you to shoot people

.

Considering that our

secondary

wincons are the same, I assume I flip the same colour as you.



Tammy, as for Arc/Nacho:
Sure, they'll not make it to endgame... maybe...

if they're both town

.
There's nothing that says Nacho's role works how he says it does.
There's nothing that says Arc's role works how he says it does-- although, maybe Nacho can confirm that.
There's nothing to say that scum won't leave them both alive because there are better kills, or because they don't want any confirmed townies, or because they want town to lynch them because "oh man, they really DID make it to endgame!"

I had a townread on Arc too. And Nacho has become a player since he outted his role, and got townshot, and his claim makes a lot of sense from that angle.
But yes, I still think you're putting a lot of faith into something that is fucking dangerous. Putting trust in players whose alignments you don't

know

, and claiming that their powers work the way they say they do (in a bastard mod game, no less!)-- you look like you're trying to treat them as confirmed town, or trying to get

us

to treat them as confirmed town. That's why I "made fun of you."

[Whiskers]

The rest is you doing mafia 101 to look busy.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. See why I haven't put forth a great deal of effort to convince Nacho to convince you not to shoot me?

I'll let you in on a little secret...your reads get to evolve in mafia. You can actually change your mind based on new information. I know it's rather startling isn't it?

Fuck you.


Reading now.

[Whiskers]

...I currently would like to see what serrapaladin's head looks like on a stick though.

You're joking, right?

[Whiskers]

Oh wow, that was short.

FT's breadcrumb stuff is interesting.
I wonder if the philosophers have names or if they are just "philosopher". Arc? Riningear? Would either of be willing to tell me that?

[Whiskers]

Votecount 1.28

Not Voting (12) - Serrapaladin, FuDuzn, Arc, The Avering, The Central Scrutinizer, Whiskers, PimHel, Empking, Riningear, Tammy, Nachomamma8, FourTrouble

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

---

Here is why we have to lynch FT today. If he's lying, then he's scum. If he's telling the truth, he could still be scum. And if he's telling the truth and he is scum, that highly calls in to question Arc's claim in my mind, as well as Nacho's clear.

So we have a lot to be gained by this I think, in addition to whatever other information we get from night actions.

Should read: "if he ISNT scum, that highly calls into question arc's claim"[/quote]
What? It made sense the other way: it would call Arc's claim into question if he

is

scum.

Why would it call Arc's claim into question if he ISN'T scum?

@serrapaladin: Self-preservation is hardly a scumtell.
@riningear: But

do you have a given name?

like, a person's name, like "John Smith," or is it something like "Cool Philosopher"? That's what I want to know.

[Whiskers]

I'm picking up on it...
Why the limited activity, though?
Also, is your role a philosopher?

Is the god not from history or religion, from a book or game? In other words, from a fictional religion?

[Whiskers]

Votecount 1.29

FourTrouble (1) - Empking
Riningear (1) - Arc

Not Voting (10) - Serrapaladin, FuDuzn, The Avering, The Central Scrutinizer, Whiskers, PimHel, Riningear, Tammy, Nachomamma8, FourTrouble

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

---

The rest is you doing mafia 101 to look busy.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. See why I haven't put forth a great deal of effort to convince Nacho to convince you not to shoot me?

Why are you trying o deal with the middle man?

I'm not.
Which I've

shown

in-thread, and

said explicitly

right in that post you quoted. So, yeah, don't be surprised that I don't have the most faith in you.

I'll let you in on a little secret...your reads get to evolve in mafia. You can actually change your mind based on new information. I know it's rather startling isn't it?

Fuck you.

You basically call me stupid and make fun of me for airing my current thoughts about an issue, because you thought I meant something was set in stone on day one of a mafia player, and can't take a snarky response. You know what they say about dishing it out don't you? >_>[/quote]
I told you your blind faith was dumb. You argue with me.
So, I told you

why.

Then you post that condescending bullshit, quoted above.

I'll let you in on a little secret... I never said reads don't evolve, we were arguing about something completely different,

you changed the subject just so you can be snide,

so shove it up your ass.

Furthermore, your blind faith is

still

not-town,

And your bull-headedness may be evidence toward actual stupidity.

[Whiskers]

Hold up, until we get better opinions:

VOTE: FourTrouble

Just to neutralize it until if/when someone else unvotes me. Keeping myself as the top lynch is a dumb idea.

This made me cringe, and town doesn't really think like that, but then again scum would be smarter than to mention it openly (I would hope). Need to read Rining again...

@serrapaladin: Self-preservation is hardly a scumtell.

Why don't they? I've seen town proclaim that as long as they aren't lynched, they don't care who is. Especially someone as inexperienced as rinin.

Yesss... not playing the game

awesome

.

[Whiskers]

EBWOP:
[/quote]

[Whiskers]

Whiskers: self-preservation isn't a scumtell per se, but voting someone you normally wouldn't so you aren't the leading wagon isn't particularly a townie mindset.

Yesss... not reading the game

awesome

.

I can't speak for Tammy's experience, but most inexperienced players I've met actively try to avoid lynching randomly to save their skin as town. The attitude that you're valuable enough to keep around over someone random only comes with experience and is even then not all THAT common. For example, if you look at stats about bodyguard ability usage, you'll find that almost all new players and most experience players use the ability every night.

I was just pointing out that I had already said what Tammy said. Like, "Yeah, I'm not playing the game. That's why I already asked this question that you're asking now."

But as long as we're on this topic:
The philosophy goes, "Since I know I am town, but don't know anyone else's alignment, it would be worse to lynch me (confirmed-to-myself town) than to lynch anyone else (possible scum)."

[Whiskers]

Votecount 1.30

FourTrouble (2) - Empking, The Central Scrutinizer
Riningear (2) - Arc, Serrapaladin
The Central Scrutinizer (2) - Tammy, Nachomamma8

Not Voting (6) - FuDuzn, The Avering, Whiskers, PimHel, Riningear, FourTrouble

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

---

Hey here's an angle I've been kicking around by myself for a while

What if Arc and FT are scum
FT claims his thingy
Arc adjusts his claim to fit with FT's
Riningear stands out for having something different.
Also would mean Nachomamma has been scum-recruited.

Arc is the pivotal player in all of these things.



Also have been wondering if Philosopher is a special class, a particular flavour of scum. Because we sure seem to have a lot of them, but then we know that TCS's role, Tammy's role, and my role, are NOT philosophers.

[Whiskers]

So, now I'm going to suggest something, even thought I know it's going to be completely ignored (because it's from me, because "it's too early", because other bullshit that isn't real).

I'd really like there to be a massclaim. A mass-full claim. Characters, roles, winconditions. Or maybe just Characters, Alignments, and Win Conditions.
Because this way we can figure out how everybody is supposed to interact with each other without guessing, and maybe we can even work out a way to fulfill some extra wincons.

I'd be willing to popcorn starting with me, but like I said, there's 0% of this happening, because town is always wussy idiots.

[Whiskers]

But if Philosopher were a special brand of scum, would they really claim that? They weren't under any particular pressure, and if your theory is correct, one flip would incriminate both.

I don't like the idea of an MC.

I doubt they're mafia.
meaning, nonstandard scum.
Why would one of them flipping incriminate the

other two

(not one. There are three philosopher claims. Or do you have more info than I do?) ? They're not called mafia, so why would town suspect they're all scum?

MC is not a good idea considering the possibility of Lynchers and other similar roles.

Gee, that's exactly the same argument as for why it IS a good idea.

...to expand.

A lot of players in this game have gotten really powerful really fast in terms of how they read each other. Already seeing a lot of rivalries faster than I'd expect. I don't want this to turn into mislynch madness and have a lot of unnecessary alignment or opinion shifts because of some external factors.

External factors like what? You mean meta-analysis? You mean someone's V/LA? Because what role you have

in game

is not external.
Besides that part with the buzzword, that's pretty much the same reason why it

is

a good idea to massclaim: having some transparency would let us sort ourselves out more quickly, whereas right now we're focusing on little trickles of information:
Tammy thought she was being lynched until she claimed vig who had to shoot specific people.
You, riningear, were being lynched iirc, until you claimed philosopher.
Nacho wasn't doing anything until he outted he had to be shot to become an alignment, and Arc did so.
FT, recently, was about to be lynched until he claimed Philosopher. Arc agreed with his claim, so assumed yours must be false.

We're getting little crumbs and the whole game turns around to look at it. Rather than controlling the game playing Guess-That-Role, I think we should out

all

the roles. We put

all

the information on the table, and then we won't have any guessing.

This is not a good idea in rolemadness games;

Bullshit.

scum probably have some ridiculous abilities (like resetting the votecount), so massclaiming will lead to scum fucking us up.

I don't see how [scum has ridiculous abilities] is the same as [massclaiming will lead to scum fucking us up]. It

certainly

won't, if all of the abilites are as transparent as resetting the votecount.

We also don't know if Jebus gave scum fakeclaims or not, but he probably did.

Yeah, maybe. But why? Considering Role Madness (

remember?

you mentioned this yourself up above), roles can be any alignment. Unless the scum are all Barney the Dinosaur-types, they don't need fakeclaims to blend

right

in.

[Whiskers]

I had a dream

Nope.
Unless you are breadcrumbing Martin Luther King Jr, no.
It didn't work for Malakittens, and it is not fucking going to work for you.

Unvote.

Vote: The Avering

There will be no accusations of "I dreamed he was scum" taken seriously.


((The only reason I even let Malakittens do it, was because I was scum and she was wrong, pushing town through another mislynch.))

(((Plus I've made fun of her for it at every opportunity since.)))

[Whiskers]

FourTroble's claim looks like a faolseclaim riffing off Arc to me. He's lent nothing to defend it, and it just seems weird that he hasn't loopholed his claimed post restriction.

Unvote
Vote: FourTrouble

Here is why we have to lynch FT today. If he's lying, then he's scum. If he's telling the truth, he could still be scum. And if he's telling the truth and he is scum, that highly calls in to question Arc's claim in my mind, as well as Nacho's clear.

So we have a lot to be gained by this I think, in addition to whatever other information we get from night actions.

I read this as super nervous.

Should read: "if he ISNT scum, that highly calls into question arc's claim"

TCS, I asked you a question about this, you ignored it. Why?

[Whiskers]

Um... neat?

Let's do a headcount, then. FuDuzn is alive. I'm alive despite Tammy. Who else?

[Whiskers]

Did FT say he was a philosophy student? According to his death he was a God, he appeared to be town but he also appeared to not be fully honest with us.

I

told

you something was up with all the philosophers. Anyway, as far as we know, it's an aspect of his role hidden from himself-- like how a Miller is told she's a Vanilla Townie.
Also, did anybody else notice that we didn't get an alignment? The whole post was in Green-- just like all of the other posts Jebus has made.

Green is Jebus's colour.

And we have
no
flips.

[Whiskers]

yo

I'm fairly sure FT knew that he was god, but wasn't allowed to say that. He also at least thought he was town. That's what he was trying to get through to with his "a god is town" stuff, is my guess.

Why didn't he just claim George Carlin?

[Whiskers]

My primary win condition (winning if all members of one faction are killed before any members of any other fction) is now explicitly anti-town. I will not be pursuing it.

Also, I am under the impression that my secondary, town-winning, win condition no longer functions for me. I'm being vague in order to be fair to other players, though.

I will cling desperately to my tertiary win condition, which I am not disclosing at this time, because I do not have the means to complete it at this time, nor do I know whether or not it is necessarily anti-town.

As of Day-Phase 2, I have a ... sort of a 2-shot roleblock. I choose targets toDay and toNight and on Day-Phase 3, they will be roleblocked. It is compulsive.

This is how I believe all of these things work, explained to the best of my ability. I may be mistaken on one or more counts. I have already asked the mod several questions and will likely ask several more.
I'll gladly be put on a leash, at least until I've figured out if I can still win or not. At such time as I realize I can no-longer win, I will stop cooperating. If I complete my tertiary wincon (or or I gain some new wincon and complete it), I will gracefully allow you to lynch me, and I will exit the game.
Consider me neutral for the time being; I only want a chance to make it out of the game with a Win. I do not seek to disrupt the the Town or it's ability to win.

[Whiskers]

And Whiskers, I still want to hear who has mentioned that he has a third wincon besides you, with a quote to show it.

I believed Tammy had admitted to as much-- looking back at her ISO, however, I can't find it and may have been mistaken or even making assumptions.
Arc and riningear, I think, were the other ones (although riningear might be the one I asked about if he had two and he said no?), but I haven't looked through their ISOs.

Considering my last post, I don't suppose it matters. I won't be leading any lynches.

[Whiskers]

My primary win condition (winning if all members of one faction are killed before any members of any other fction) is now explicitly anti-town. I will not be pursuing it.

It's now impossible, isn't it?

Also, why were you interested in a massclaim earlier?

None of my winconditions are currently completeable, except for one which is explicityly anti-town. I just want to survive long enough to have a shot at my third wincon, but that really depends on if the Town minds having a layabout living in their house.
I am a schizophrenic townie, I get powers at the start of each Day, maybe at random? My third wincon in based on that. Today I have a modified roleblocking power, the use of which I have detailed (or tried to) above.


Idr about the massclaim. Probably because I think it'd be a good idea.

Transparency is sort of my gimmick,

so massclaiming really fits my playstyle.

[Whiskers]

Votecount 2.1

Whiskers (1) - PimHel
Empking (1) - Riningear

Not Voting (8) - Empking, The Avering, FuDuzn, Tammy, Nachomamma8, Arc, Serrapaladin, Whiskers

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

---

The problem with massclaiming, Whiskers, is that you have this mysterious win con that is supposedly anti town and you want us to trust you that you won't pursue it. Yet you want everyone to spill their beans for you to see, makes me a bit nervous tbh.

I guess what I am saying is that I don't trust you with all that info.

Hey, Limited Access.

@Fuduzn: The mysterious one isn't the one that's anti-town. The one that's anti-town I claimed completely. Speaking of which,

[Whiskers]

None of my winconditions are currently completeable, except for one which is explicityly anti-town.

So self-aligned doesn't count as a faction, then?

I didn't think so, but I asked (just checked my PMs), and it does.

I just want to survive long enough to have a shot at my third wincon, but that really depends on if the Town minds having a layabout living in their house.
I am a schizophrenic townie, I get powers at the start of each Day, maybe at random? My third wincon in based on that. Today I have a modified roleblocking power, the use of which I have detailed (or tried to) above.

Then why don't you mind if your powers are leashed?

I don't understand the question.

[Whiskers]

I have been really busy but I'm trying to catch up, I haven't liked anything that whiskers has said today, and claiming his first win condition is explicitly anti town now with his previous statement that he would like to win using that win condition over a standard condition, while insulting me when I decided to do otherwise strikes me as this is the time to get rid of him.

Also, saying that his second win condition is no longer viable when he said earlier it was a standard town win condition is incredibly suspicious.

VOTE: Whiskers

I've only said the same thing over and over again.

That win condition was not anti-town at the time. It became anti-town when a

town

player was lynched, and became impossible when a non-

town

player was killed.
My factional win condition-- that I win with the town-- is removed.

[Whiskers]

Er... When someone else is stupid, you don't lynch yourself. You hammer into them and lynch them.
Also, Empking, if Tammy is really scum, then you take a step back and hammer into her when there's a bit more info-- because right now you're failing.
Also, Tammy,

YOU!!!!!#sdrlfhgrtvq

said this is empking-town, so uh, wtf!? []I'M[/i] not sure this is Emptown, but YOU are. Why the fuck are you asking the rest of the town to confirm your town reads??

Basically: Empking's argument is shit IMO.
Tammy's reaction to Empking's argument is less than reassuring.

So I got some information on Hitler last night. Do I divulge?

I'm interested in the nature of this information-- role? Alignment? Wincon?

Once two people (the role-bearer and you) have information about a role, then that person's role can be confirmed. So, yeah. What do you know about Hitler? You have my permission.

[Whiskers]

Why the fuck am I still arguing with someone who refuses to see logic.

NOBODY FUCKING KNOOOOOWSSSS!!!
However, since we can all see that Empking's argument is weakish, if you would just

shut up

and

leave Brittany alone

, you could stop annoying the town, stop getting hounded by Empking, and actually kind of keep scumhunting.

I here-by give you permission to fucking ignore Empking when he tries to convince you that you're scum.

[Whiskers]

didn't read anything on this page until FuDuzn came in.

Stopped reading again after "Lynching me is the best choice for today. This distraction has gone on since yesterday and is not going to stop,"

I stand by my previous post.

As you were.

[Whiskers]

I don't understand the question.

If your powers help you towards your personal win condition, why don't you mind them being leashed? It makes more sense to me that you would use your powers doing whatever the fuck as opposed to telling townies to direct you.
Make sense?

Because my power doesn't help me toward my personal win condition, yet. I'm waiting to get a power that will allow me to complete my wincon.

I didn't think so, but I asked (just checked my PMs), and it does.

you thought that all you had to do was kill all of any faction and that faction DIDN'T include third parties?
and you kept that assumption without clarifying anything with the mod?

I... don't fully understand this question either. I had to kill all of any faction BEFORE a member of any other faction died. So if town is lynched Day 1, then ALL the town would have to be killed, before any mafia, werewolves, cultists, or survivors, for me to win by that condition. Int he same way, if all the mafia were killed before any townies, werewolves, cultists, or survivors were, I would win by that primary condition.
Since I didn't know anyone's alignment for certain, and am not super at driving all the lynches I want, I figured I'd see what happened. What happened is, a townie was lynched, and a 3-rd party survivor was killed. Primary wincondition can not be acheived.


Tammy, I think it was, pointed out something that I'm surprised nobody else mentioned. Was the nightkill Double-Killed? Both Shot

and

frozen to death? That would actually explain why Tammy's would have been the only kill (though it's only one explanation).

[Whiskers]

Whiskers, is it correct that you don't currently have a pro-town wincon?

Correct. Please don't kill me.
However, since I had one before, I think the theory that most everyone is modified Survivors is not the case.

If third party was lynched first, would the rule still apply?
last question, I promise.

I believe so. I was told a Survivor (specifically, since that's what I asked about) counted as a faction for this purpose. Jebus also told me he would explain it to me later. He didn't-- so, hey, I even have a reason for my vote.

But by all means, keep asking me questions. The longer I can keep you talking, the longer I'm useful to you, the longer it is before I'm eaten.

[Whiskers]

oh. Pff, I forgot to include it:

Vote: Jebus

[Whiskers]

Anything I can do to allay your suspicion?

[Whiskers]

Anything I can do to allay your suspicion?

Does your role have a God given name?

Ahaha, unless you're referring to Jebus-- No, unfortunately. If that were the case, I could be even

more

transparent.

Or did you mean, "do I have a Proper Noun role name?" That, I do. It was mentioned recentlyish.

[Whiskers]

I don't buy Whiskers' claiming in the bolded above either (if you complete your wincon you would leave the game) but I also don't buy Tammy-as-vig. Happy for either to be lynched.

Unvote

Actually one other thing, I need to be the hammer on any lynches from here on out.

Hey, you need to start doing some talking.

[Whiskers]

Votecount 2.5

Whiskers (3) - PimHel, Arc, FuDuzn
Empking (2) - Riningear, Tammy
Tammy (1) - Empking
Jebus (1) - Whiskers

Not Voting (4) - Nachomamma8, Serrapaladin, The Avering

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

PimHel has requested replacement. Seeking replacement.

---

Luckily for you, I know Adolf Hitler's alignment.

[Whiskers]

[font=][/font]

How can Avering get confirmation for his information without giving his information out?

Who said anything about not giving his information out?

[Whiskers]

Lol, you guys are stupid.

Avering, firstly, out your info on Hitler. Or at least, out the nature of your info on Hitler. Role name, what?

Let me start by saying Hitler is not town.

[Whiskers]

Oh wiat, that's what you were worried about.

Well, let me finish then, by wishing I hadn't said that, and saying that Hitler is me, as I breadcrumbed earlier.

out your goddamned info.

[Whiskers]

Let me tell you, Hitler used to be town. He is not anymore.

[Whiskers]

Let me tell you, Hitler used to be town. He is not anymore.

That is one great out of context sig worthy shit right there.

Also, why are we not lynching mein fuhrer right now?

because I'm not playing antitown, god damn it!
I'm hoping that theavering will come in and give you guys something to chew on that will prove I'm not lying-- or, if he's got nothing, then we can lynch him for trying to draw out a claim?

[Whiskers]

I said I had a secondary, "wins with town" wincondition.
I wasn't counting myself as green (town) because it wasn't my "Primary" win condition.

But, other people with similar setups were considering themselves to be "Town" aligned. So I decided I must be Town-Aligned too.
I am not Town-Aligned anymore, because that wincondition was removed.

now: I will claim, once Avering with

fucking out his info on me

.

[Whiskers]

Vote: Empking

I've not trying to win for a faction, so I guess I can vote freely.

[Whiskers]

Hey Fu.
Maybe you can stop pushing my lynch until theAvering outs his info, huh?

[Whiskers]

1. How is saying that Tammy's role isn't Hitler confirmation bias.

Can I answer this one?

[Whiskers]

It's not that particular thing, that is confirmation bias. It's your unceasing but unconvincing attack.

For instance this--

Unless Avering knows Tammy is Hitler? And also has that rolename?

Mentioning Tammy out of nowhere when she has nothing to do with the situ (am I right?) just looks bad. Like you can't possibly be bothered with anything else BUT TAMMY.

It's super late and I don't remember what your previous attack on her was, but it was very "meh." I said, "back off, Emp, and attack her again when there's more" but you ignored me-- I guess that's ok. But since you can't seem to

lay off

, and you haven't convinced

anyone else

with your tunnelling-- yeah. Having convinced yourself is confirmation bias.

The fact that nobody else is buying the argument is not proof that you're wrong, but I'd say it's evidence that your argument is weak and you should take a step back.
Also, like I said before, just leave Brittany alone. Go off the attack for a little while. Otherwise (and you may have done this already), you burn up all your "cry wolf" cards and nobody listens to your argument on Tammy when there

is

something more substantial.

Why am I coaching you, Empking? You're older (mafiascum-wise) than I am, and a better player than I am-- these are things you should know already. It's weird. I'm officially putting the Burden of Proficiency on you, because you know better than to tunnel with a weak case, and all the other things. You know that it doesn't work as town nor as scum. So why are you doing it?

[Whiskers]

Accidentally put the votecount here. whoops!

No, I'm not convinced that she's town. but I'm also not convinced that

you're

town. and I'm not convinced by you that she's scum.

Her AtE made her look a lot worse, to me.
You attack on her makes YOU look a lot worse, to me.
So, her going from a townread to maybe even a null read for AtE (but not really, since it shouldn't affect her alignment or my perception of her at all). And then Her going back to a townier read, for defeating your weakass argument-- and she

defeated

it, not just "lalala, you're wrong". You actually

lose

points for pushing the weakass argument like it's valid.

[Whiskers]

I'm neither a Survivor or Scum. Unlike Tammy or you, I don't care about losing points.

Then, you don't care about convincing town and getting scum lynched. My vote on you is pro-town.

Urgh, and you're continuing the 'I found Tammy town' lie, she claimed for a reason because (collective) you did not find her town.

No, she claimed because she is fucking stupid. Or did you forget the AtE? She blew up because she had two votes on her.

Mod Cutscene 2.1

askldgj;kjdahtkausjdf

He twists his arms over, replacing one with another. The other dove, fangs bared. He was ready to sink his teeth into victory, it was so close he could taste the blood. In a poof of smoke, the one disappears, and the loses sight of his target. Furious, he starts clawing at himself not even sure what to do - he had wasted his one shot!

Huh, werewolf?

So I've been fucked.

Okay so my primary wincon is to KILL HITLER (I can achieve this whether I am Town or Survivor). I can either do this via SHOOTING or HAMMERING him. I namecop'd Whiskers (he is Hitler) and then tried to use my single daykill on him. It was redirected back onto me, but apparently I can't kill myself, so instead I've lost my vote for the day.

I tried to win this way because I am scared on becoming a survivor and being killed.

PLEASE. Do not lynch or kill Whiskers or me. Allow him to survive to tomorrow, and allow me to hammer him.
I beg of you. I beg of you, naked and grasping at your sympathy.

Wow. Wow, fuck you man. Not only are you secretly trying to kill me to fulfill your own win condition, but now you're trying to make a deal with the town to let you kill me later on. What the hell? Why is that better than allowing me to fulfill

MY

win condition?
Selfish-- not that that's a scumtell.

Yeah, the whole "Info/Hammer" thing was BS. I had info that Hitler was in the game from the start.

Huh, you mean to say you botched your claim?
Oh, and if you already namecop'd me, what were you hoping to gain with "I have information on Hitler"?

How about this: What

exactly

is my rolename? 'Cause if you're wrong, you'll get caught in that lie as soon as I flip.

[Whiskers]

EBWOP

I'm neither a Survivor or Scum. Unlike Tammy or you, I don't care about losing points.

Then, you don't care about convincing town and getting scum lynched. My vote on you is pro-town.

Urgh, and you're continuing the 'I found Tammy town' lie, she claimed for a reason because (collective) you did not find her town.

No, she claimed because she is fucking stupid. Or did you forget the AtE? She blew up because she had two votes on her.

Mod Cutscene 2.1

askldgj;kjdahtkausjdf

He twists his arms over, replacing one with another. The other dove, fangs bared. He was ready to sink his teeth into victory, it was so close he could taste the blood. In a poof of smoke, the one disappears, and the loses sight of his target. Furious, he starts clawing at himself not even sure what to do - he had wasted his one shot!

Huh, werewolf?

So I've been fucked.

Okay so my primary wincon is to KILL HITLER (I can achieve this whether I am Town or Survivor). I can either do this via SHOOTING or HAMMERING him. I namecop'd Whiskers (he is Hitler) and then tried to use my single daykill on him. It was redirected back onto me, but apparently I can't kill myself, so instead I've lost my vote for the day.

I tried to win this way because I am scared on becoming a survivor and being killed.

PLEASE. Do not lynch or kill Whiskers or me. Allow him to survive to tomorrow, and allow me to hammer him.
I beg of you. I beg of you, naked and grasping at your sympathy.

Wow. Wow, fuck you man. Not only are you secretly trying to kill me to fulfill your own win condition, but now you're trying to make a deal with the town to let you kill me later on. What the hell? Why is that better than allowing me to fulfill

MY

win condition?
Selfish-- not that that's a scumtell.

Yeah, the whole "Info/Hammer" thing was BS. I had info that Hitler was in the game from the start.

Huh, you mean to say you botched your claim?
Oh, and if you already namecop'd me, what were you hoping to gain with "I have information on Hitler"?
How about this: What

exactly

is my rolename? 'Cause if you're wrong, you'll get caught in that lie as soon as I flip.

[Whiskers]

What am I supposed to explain? I don't fucking know why the day kill failed-- hell, I have no reason to believe his claim is true at all; to believe that there even

was

a daykill.
Every Day phase after the first, I get a power. I don't know if I keep old powers as I get a new one, or if they replace (I suppose I could ask Jebus about that).
My current power, I have already claimed. It is a compulsory roleblock on two players, a roleblock that will occur during the Day

tomorrow

, and it doesn't have that flavour anyway. I did not have anything to do with the supposed reflection of Avering's shot-- at least, not that I'm aware of. Maybe I have a hidden thingy. Or, just as likely, his shooting power has a hidden mechanic that causes him to fail. I don't know.

I don't fucking know, because I am part of the uninformed majority.

So, what? What the fuck do you want me to say, Tammy?

[Whiskers]

post_id=5037162 time=1371371737 user_id=10128 post_num=1018]Whiskers, just vote the avering. He'll die if he's indeed lying.

Uh, that's not the aspect of the claim I was worried about him lying about.

I don't know if you've bothered reading any of the game or recent events therein, but someone's loss of vote is pretty much

confirmed

by the mod giving a scene to it. I'm taking that at face value, not outguessing there.

What I'm wondering is if TheAvering had any kill power at all. And, if so, if that's really what triggered his votelessness.
That's where my skepticism lies. But thanks for trying to take suspicion away from him by proving something that didn't need to be proven?

[Whiskers]

he had wasted his one shot![/i]

What else does this mean, Whiskers?

Good point.

Rin has been acting less scummy, but Zd didn't come out looking too hot before he left the game, and she didn't handle day one very well at all, makes her look scummy. Also, Her claim seems unlikely if there are multiple gods in the game, which appears to be the case. I would really like for her to die this day. This is of course if there isn't some type of mafia group led by a god and her win condition is to protect the leader of that faction. My current working theory on this game is as such.

Let me start by saying it took me until riningear's next post to figure out who the hell "Rin" is, but
What is the evidence of there being multiple gods? FourTrouble saying that he knew

A

god was town-- being him. Leaving the possiblity open for other gods. Your role power, you say, is ambiguous-- that it also leaves the possiblity for more than one god.

But as we discussed with my role, leaving the possiblity of more than one anti-town faction (implicated in my role) or more than one god (implicated in your role), doesn't mean that that is the case.

I guess I'm just saying, we don't know. Unless someone else claims a God, or something similar, we can't really assume there must be more than the one we lynched.

From Day one, I suspected Empking, and Empking has been continuing to act the same way as on day one, overly aggressive and tunneling towards a player that is very likely a town power role.

How is she very likely a town power role? Give me one reason why her claim is believable.

Well, for one thing, scum wouldn't claim it. Yeah, yeah, wifom, but "scum wouldn't claim vig" makes "vig" a more believable claim.

Next page

[Whiskers]

Ringingear - You might have mentioned this already, but is your personal wincon still going? You were on the FT lynch yesterday, and you're supposed to keep God alive, right?

Yeah, I mean, it

should

be,

if

there's another God role out there.

If not, then... well, fuck. Just gotta scum hunt.

Ask. Because I know that when a win condition became unfulfillable for me, and I asked if that was the case, Jebus straight up told me.

[Whiskers]

P-Edit: Bear Grilles did not randomly get killed by a magical hypothermia demon.

I wouldn't be so sure. The way my current power (that delayed day-roleblock) is flavoured, a hypothermia-flavored kill isn't out of the question.

[Whiskers]

For all we know,

all

of any potential "god"-roles are town.

Like, we have literally no information besides FT's flip. I'm fine with you guys lynching him for being scummy-- that's perfectly all right. But it makes me really uncomfortable to see you pushing on him based on

pure speculation

. Not to chainsaw defend, but attacking someone using

pure speculation

makes me wonder if Arc, Nacho, aren't scum.

[Whiskers]

For all we know,

all

of any potential "god"-roles are town.

Like, we have literally no information besides FT's flip. I'm fine with you guys lynching him for being scummy-- that's perfectly all right. But it makes me really uncomfortable to see you pushing on him based on

pure speculation

. Not to chainsaw defend, but attacking someone using

pure speculation

makes me wonder if Arc, Nacho, aren't scum.

>.>
Whiskers.
Am I calling Riningear scum?

Uhh... someone was. Maybe Arc, but I can't be assed to check.

[Whiskers]

For all we know,

all

of any potential "god"-roles are town.

Like, we have literally no information besides FT's flip. I'm fine with you guys lynching him for being scummy-- that's perfectly all right. But it makes me really uncomfortable to see you pushing on him based on

pure speculation

. Not to chainsaw defend, but attacking someone using

pure speculation

makes me wonder if Arc, Nacho, aren't scum.

>.>
Whiskers.
Am I calling Riningear scum?

Uhh... someone was. Maybe Arc, but I can't be assed to check.

Nah, I'm trying to lynch Rin because she appears to be scum, the speculation is unrelated to me trying to off her, and is entirely to figure out how this game works.

I can comprehend two separate trains of thought at the same time, you know?

Yes, and so now please comprehend that THAT IS WHAT I WAS SAYING: You are calling Riningear scum.
Or-- were you referring to the first quote in the chain? Because it looked like your main angle, your big push, was to say, "ah, the role stuff is weird!", at least at that moment.

@Whiskers, can you win after you die? You said you wouldn't leave the game if you won, is that 100% true? I.e. is there any way that we can both achieve our personal win-cons? I would be interested in helping us both win if possible. Otherwise, I have to Play-To-Win, which is lynching you - sorry bro.

Um, what? Where did I way this?
In fact, I remember-- aaah, you mean because I said I would willingly be lynched if I won, making the assumption that I wouldn't automatically leave the game? Is that what you're referring to? I don't fucking know, it's a bastard mod game.
So why is it now that you've fucked up, that you're interested in "achieving both of our wincons?" You sure as shit weren't interested in that when you were shooting me. Frankly, I'm inclined to say "eat a dick," because I betchya scum aren't going to like to shoot me, and because you, if you've claimed your role truthfully, could become just as non-town as I am right now, putting us on even ground. You know what the difference there would be? I've been transparent all game, haven't gone around shooting anyone.
Buzz off.

[Whiskers]

I betcha Emp has a wincon that he needs to get Tammy lynched, I don't think he is scum so I don't feel like voting him, but I will not follow him as well.

Nacho questioned my vote, I just don't trust Whiskers not to fuck everyone over. The fact that he was open to being voted earlier is telling imo, he is trying to call our bluff. If I have to I will switch to Rinin, but I still believe Whiskers should go.

What the hell are you talking about? I was open to being voted earlier? Where? Go find it, I don't remember ever saying, "Hey guys, vote for me now!"

Other

people said I might be a Jester. And I said I'd be fine with being lynched

after

I won. But I did not

ever

fucking say I was "open to being voted". Is this a lie, a misrep, or a misunderstanding?

ITT Empking continues to lie, and people continue to not notice.

Holy shit shut the fuckk up and do something.
How about that "sorting people out" with Nachomamma that you keep promising but never deliver on?

[Whiskers]

Vote: Tammy[/b
Ok. Tired of your bullshit, frankly. Maybe if you would fucking do something other than bicker with Empking (who is clearly wrong, so you're being fucking stupid by continued arguing with him), you'd be worth keeping around, but you're not.

So; bye.

[Whiskers]

vote: Tammy

[Whiskers]

Fuck you. I hope you're scum, because this is shit townplay.

Jebus: Chill the fuck out on this. If you're annoyed at least be nicer about it :/ Warning 1.

[Whiskers]

I'm not scum, but hold onto your little heart.

I'm tired of the distraction.

THEN STOP THE DISTRACTION.

I'm tired of the fact that Empking is a tunneling scummy lyncher who refuses to see anything and continues to spread lies.

I'M TIRED OF THE FACT THAT YOU CAN'T DO ANYTHING BUT WHINE ABOUT EMPKING. EVERYBODY AGREES. YOU

YOU

YOOOOOUU

ARE THE DISTRACTION! You want the distraction to end?

STOP REPLYING TO HIM

. STOP CONTINUING THE ARGUMENT WITH HIM. ENOUUUUGH. I'm tired of it too. I'm sure we're all tired of it too. I'm sure we all wish Empking would do something else, but the blame is as much on you for

not doing anything else

.

I'm tired of your hostility. Do you realize the amount of times you've cussed people out for no bloody reason at all? I just literally am tired of every time you post Whiskers. I'm tired of you cussing people out.

And I'm tired of your bullshit. Get modkilled, get force-replaced, or failing that, get lynched. I've had it up to here with your whining about Empking and above all with your Appeal to Emotion. Third strike.

Like that post above? YESTERDAY, I told Nacho I would be here today.

And here it is, today. Where's all your analysis? Nope, no analysis, just AtE and pleas to be lynched.

Sunday through Tuesdays happens to be shit times for me and mafia. I barely do anything. I said Nacho, I'll be here tomorrow. Today, I said Nacho I'm here tonight if you are. And you literally cuss me out for not doing anything? You're such a gem.

Who said he needed to be there at the same time? DO SOMETHING ON YOUR OWN. I don't know if you need him to hold your hand, or if you two have a joint-power and you need to know if you're both in the thread at the same time before you kill everyone, but assuming normal conditions,
it's played on a forum
so you can make posts
at your own leisure
You don't need to wait
for anyone else
, dumbass.

Empking is literally spamming the thread and not stopping with his tunnel which is causing others, namely the ones I most need to talk because they're the ones that I have the most question marks about, to hide. They've complained and refused to do anything with this game.

Then stop responding to him. You're just as bad as he is. Everytime he spams "Derp derp derp tammy must be fucking stupid and changed her playstyle 180degrees and she claims a role impossible to survive as scum!", you spam "wah wah wah, no im not look empking is lying AGAIN!!!11!!!!!1111!1!.sdkh;slkjgalnkgjhlskfjdzlg,k,ktkeh"
And I'm fucking sick of it do something else. Attack people who are hiding, maybe? Maybe you are, and I'm just not seeing it, under your thick walls of "emp is soooo mean!"

I said it last week, this distraction needs to stop.

I agree. So why haven't you stopped?

[Whiskers]

Empking (who is clearly wrong,

I say Tammy doesn't scumhunt and just spams. Same day you say the same thing and I'm 'clearly wrong'! Ridiculous.

P-Edit: I'm not the one spamming the thread. That's just quantitatively false.

Shut the hell up. You say "Tammy is scum because scum's best move would be to murder themselves with a claim!" and "TammyScum would have shot a viable mislynch because scum wants town to only lynch scum!"

You are

way

worse in your tunneling. Nobody is buying it. The reason I'm not cussing you out is because I don't give two shits about you. You're scum (or maybe not), and can die for all I care.

[Whiskers]

See, the psychological bullshit isn't fooling me. It's making me mad, sure. It makes me want to curse you and shout at you and tell you to die until I'm replaced and banned, but no, I'm not "ashamed that tammy tricked me for so long". I'm pissed off that you're trying to bully me (oh, as usual), but I'm not convinced by your arguement. And I haven't seen any evidence that anyone else is either. That's why Tammy's arguing is so bad, by the way-- if you had convinced

anybody

that Tammy was scum, and she was defending herself, it would be fine. But here you are shouting out BS, a lone bully, and she's letting it get to her. That's stupid on her part.

1: Incorrect. Scum's best move is to have their claim not murder them at all, saving them now, and possibly later. Vig doesn't do that, since it is provable, to some extent. Of course, if I were mafia, I'd just no-kill toNight. Regardless, Tammy could have claimed something

not

provable. She didn't actually need to claim at all, if you'll recall.

Tammy has never been close to being lynched.

2: The idea that town never lynches power roles makes me wonder if you've ever been town, er, ever.
If you have a problem with Tammy

not

shooting me, then lynch me, get my flip, and use it to attack her. If you have a problem with Tammy

not

shooting me, take it up with Nachomamma, who was trying to negotiate with me to act more town, so Tammy wouldn't shoot me (as if he had any say in it).

Worse yet, Empking, people are at the point where they're not just ignoring you-- they're going along with you saying, "Yeah, sure, we

TOMORROW!!!!!!!!

we can look at the nightkills and if there's only one, we'll speculate some more. But you won't have it. You're being a useless piece of shit tunnelling on Tammy.
And Empking, you've not entertained the idea that Mafia doesn't have a nightkill (they don't, always), or that there

is

no mafia (an idea which has been brought up a couple of times by different players). You are basing your whole attack on a fistful of assumptions, and

no one is buying your bullshit

. It's not reasonable. Regardless of your possible rightness, you are not playing pro-town. Should we lynch you for that?

[Whiskers]

See that isn't remotely true. And 'you're trying to bully me' is just more pathetic nonsense.

This is partially a psychological game, going into partially psychological is fine. You're attacking Tammy for AtE, spamming etc just hours after I lay all that out.

Yes. If you'll recall, I've been attacking Tammy for spamming for some time now. Also, if you'll recall, I was pissed at Tammy the

first

time she used AtE and cried "lynch me!"

You may say that after days (weeks?) of doing everything you can to avoid confronting Tammy that that's just a coincidence,

You mean like how I confronted her on Day 1? Is this a lie from you, or just a misunderstanding from you?

but since you've also said a whole lot of other rubbish that doesn't mean much - if you just keep on stealing my ideas then you'll be playing well.

Since

your actual attack is bullshit

-- or rather, Wifom and setup speculation-- and I was on Tammy for both spamming and AtE

before

you (and neither of them are hard scumtells), no, I'm pretty secure in my assertion that you

haven't

convinced me of anything.
Of course, if you think

my

ideas are good enough to make an attack on them... well, nah, you won't be playing well. You'll be playing like shit (you are). My ideas aren't worth the the piss I use to write them in the snow.

1. Incorrect. Scum's best move is to use their magical powers to have all the town players modkilled on page one.

Way to dodge! Good to know you've got no real argument to my point, because it means I'm right.

2. I never said towns never lynches power roles. I'm saying this town is playing awfully (which we are) and that they wouldn't lynch a power role (which they wouldn't.)

Uh, BS, "this town wouldn't lynch a power role". Did you forget "this town is playing awfully"? Wouldn't that make them

more

likely to lynch a power role?
Anyway, none of this little contradiction of yours matters (except that it is, in fact, a contradiciton-- take note, town, Empking can't keep his shit straight). Your point was that, if TCS were a power role, town would lynch him. This argument falls flat here:
-Town wouldn't

know

he was a power role, so would be liable to lynch him anyway.
-ScumTammy wouldn't know he was a power role, so wouldn't shoot him because "this town never lynches powerroles"
-TCS wasn't a power role.

(Trying to accuse other people of being bullies when you had to be warned by the mod doesn't disprove the huge amount of denial in your posts, either.)

[/quote]You're trying to pick a fight. Now, is that town behaviour, or scum behaviour? To cause chaos and disruption? Aw, come on Empking, don't talk about denial, when you keep accusing others of being unable to admit they're wrong.

[Whiskers]

@Jebus: If you could fix the [/qipte] to [/quote], I'd be quite grateful.

[Whiskers]

K.


Hey Tammy, this ^ is how to deal with Empking. Learn it.

[Whiskers]

YESTERDAY, I told Nacho I would be here today. Sunday through Tuesdays happens to be shit times for me and mafia. I barely do anything. I said Nacho, I'll be here tomorrow. Today, I said Nacho I'm here tonight if you are. And you literally cuss me out for not doing anything? You're such a gem.

Tada~
here it is

tomorrow

and the thread is surprisingly lacking your presence. Promise: broken!

[Whiskers]

AAARRRGH
Why do you feel you need to be on the forum at the same time? I want one of you to answer this question, because the only time I've ever needed someone on the forum at the same time as me, is when I was scum, and I needed my scumpartner online so we could quickhammer and win the game.

So, what the hell is going on here? Because

no other player

needs to be online at the same time as anyone else. That's the whole point of forum-mafia.

Why Are You Coordinating A Time?

[Whiskers]

post_id=5048715 time=1371734420 user_id=10128 post_num=1123]I, being such a nice guy, want to help Aurous win. We can get Whiskers tomorrow.

Nacho is town, let's look into Empking next

If you want to help Aurous win, doesn't that mean you want to lynch me today?

And, why do you want to help Aurous over Whiskers?

Aurous, who claims he could win with town. Instead, let Whiskers win via personal wincon, and let Aurous win with factional town wincondition.

Aurous, who, if he turns into a survivor, has already claimed and shown that he will

not

be playing with town's interests in mind, but will instead just be out for Whiskers' blood.

Why do you want to help him?

[Whiskers]

AAARRRGH
Why do you feel you need to be on the forum at the same time? I want one of you to answer this question, because the only time I've ever needed someone on the forum at the same time as me, is when I was scum, and I needed my scumpartner online so we could quickhammer and win the game.

So, what the hell is going on here? Because

no other player

needs to be online at the same time as anyone else. That's the whole point of forum-mafia.

Why Are You Coordinating A Time?

Because we're trying to coordinate a scum quickhammer in thread. Why else do you think two people would want to talk about the game in real time?

I CAN LITERALLY THINK OF NO OTHER POSSIBLE REASON. YOU HAVEN'T GIVEN ONE. TAMMY HASN'T GIVEN ONE. IS THERE

ANYLOHASLKGHASDL?KGSrhbylskrjeiohrwfxcfdvb ,.


fuck it, I quit. Fuck you. Fuck all of you, can't be bothered to play the fucking game. Go die.

[Whiskers]

post_id=5051637 time=1371851905 user_id=10128 post_num=1129]

hp, do you have anyone you think is mafia, or are you just trying to sort through all of the third party claims first?

I don't even believe that there is a "regular" mafia in this game especially with the overload of "first and second party" survivors. Even if there is, their second win conditions would complicate things even more.

I am not and never was a survivor. There's like, one survivor claim, and he's dead.

[Whiskers]

gotta love that no-prods replacement rule.
unless im being replaced for conduct, which is a thing.

[Whiskers]

Empking has been lynched, by the way - we are in twilight until I do the flavor post.

What a fucking shame. Only player in the game who was still playing.

Over and out.

[Whiskers]

My last remaining wincon was that I had to successfully frame somebody. No clarification to this when I asked.
I also lost my town wincon because I was recruited by a cult.

Also I stand by every attack I made.

[Whiskers]

Argh. Recruiting Whiskers was a good idea for YOU, maybe (although I don't really see how...), but not for me. It took away the "I have a town wincon, I'll just play to that" angle that was one of, like, three things keeping me alive.