[Mini 1447] Misaligned Malignant Multi-verse Mafia (abandon)
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Tammy Survivor
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Tammy Survivor
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- Joined: January 13, 2012
Buh. This game needs an adrenaline injection or something. It's kinda hard to get any reads I feel great about when most everyone is standing around the water cooler filing their nails.
The empking/TCS thing is twitch inducing though I *feel* like empking might be town. Maybe it's the conviction that he's obvtown because he was invested early on. I don't agree with that, but meh whatever.
@ TCSWhy did you out that you were grills immediately? You know you're playing in a possibly bastard game, one that has personal win conditions in addition to the standard win condition, and the first mention of your role name causes you to out that it's you?
Also, were you seriously satisfied with empking's answer that he wasn't a lyncher? Do you typically just believe whatever you're told in mafia? No doubts whatsoever?
You're referring to four trouble right? He was actually the fourth vote on nacho, but whatever. How is voting for the first rvs wagon a scum tell? Also, is this really what you're calling "hard defending"? Because this is the only instance of four trouble talking about arc:In post 77, The Central Scrutinizer wrote: Nah, I'll stick with the dude who voted third and then hard defended a new player.
He also called empking definitely town, who incidentally was the third vote on nacho, is he hard defending him too?In post 65, FourTrouble wrote:Arc obviously has different way of playing but he's trying to figure things out, seems like town.
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@ arcwhat did you mean by this?
Are you simultaneously calling pimhel scummy and protown for trying to get early reads?arc wrote: PimHel kinda came off as a bit scummy for trying to read into this really quicky, its pretty standard RVS. Though trying to kill RVS with fire seems Pro Town. Eh, nothing yet.
I'm not really sure what to make of arc. There's a bit of over explaining in a weird way that comes across as overly self conscious, which I normally associate with scum, but he's new so that can explain it. Also, I liked him explaining about The possible flavor justification of the post restriction in Post 120. I think that's more likely to come from town as he could have easily expressed doubt and thrown some easy suspicion on whiskers but didn't even as he wasn't sure if he believed it was a post restriction. And his attempt to figure out empking reads townish.
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I have working leaning town reads on whiskers, four trouble, and nacho. I found the posting in pictures thing amusing. No it doesn't make him town, but he feels somewhat town. Four trouble reads somewhat town due to a lack of orchestration in his posts. His going after whiskers for being passive and feeling off and trying to make things fit read townish. I think I'll be able to read nacho better with time, but nothin feels off right now.
Althoughnacho and fourtroublewhat are your reads on each other right now?
empkingwhy did you want nachos opinion on whether or not you were being defensive in Post 79?
I'm interested in seeing where this zdenek/fuduzn thing is going and think I'll be able to get a better read on zdenek from it, but I'm not liking fuduzn much.
VOTE: the central scrutinzer
I'd also happily vote avering, And possibly fuduzn
Strongest town read is pimhel.-
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Tammy Survivor
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In post 162, FuDuzn wrote:See in Post 73 that you quoted, I wasn't trying to defend myself or use self meta. People were asking why I wasn't answering Arc's questioning(what I did, and still, think was deflection), so I was explaining why.
If anything, it helps to explain my thought process into why I do think Arc is scum and why I continue to be on him.
This is weak and pretty lame. Arc asked you some pretty standard questions. Why did you vote TCS in the first place? Arc is right, you didn't comment on it. What are your actual reads?
Going oh see I just pick a scum read and stick with that and don't really bother with looking for other scum until one is caught is wtf? You can't be serious about that. I don't remember you being so one note in leprechaun mafia.-
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Tammy Survivor
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Boring.In post 189, Nachomamma8 wrote:
I think that everyone will be a little passive until we understand what the fuck is up with alignment-changing.In post 187, Tammy wrote:Buh. This game needs an adrenaline injection or something. It's kinda hard to get any reads I feel great about when most everyone is standing around the water cooler filing their nails.
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Tammy Survivor
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What information did you gain? The nature of my role would make me not care about my flavor being outed either in the strictest sense. My issue with it is that you know that there are personal win conditions in addition to the primary ones, that there's a very strong likelihood of there being multiple threats to town, and someone misspells your role name just like its misspelled in your role pm and without hesitation you play along. Doesn't make sense to me, not if you're town. It does make sense to me if your scum though, as you can plant that lyncher seed and make people wary of lynching you.In post 191, The Central Scrutinizer wrote:
Honestly, because the nature of my role makes me not really care TOO too much about my flavor being outed, and second, because I thought it was odd that EmpKing would misspell the name Bear Grylls just like my Role PM did. I gained at least some information by responding to this.In post 187, Tammy wrote:Buh. This game needs an adrenaline injection or something. It's kinda hard to get any reads I feel great about when most everyone is standing around the water cooler filing their nails.
The empking/TCS thing is twitch inducing though I *feel* like empking might be town. Maybe it's the conviction that he's obvtown because he was invested early on. I don't agree with that, but meh whatever.
@ TCSWhy did you out that you were grills immediately? You know you're playing in a possibly bastard game, one that has personal win conditions in addition to the standard win condition, and the first mention of your role name causes you to out that it's you?
So, what are you doing to try to figure out his alignment then?TCS wrote:
Well, no, obviously not.Also, were you seriously satisfied with empking's answer that he wasn't a lyncher? Do you typically just believe whatever you're told in mafia? No doubts whatsoever?
Okay, we need to change your name to The Central Hyperbole. He called one player "definitely town" not lots. I also hardly call saying that someone is playing differently but seems like town "buddying". Your mid-wagon wiki tell is lame. It's a crap shoot that hits town as often as scum.TCS wrote:
Well, calling lots of players "definitely town" is often a red flag, so it does reinforce my argument that FourTrouble is scum.
You're referring to four trouble right? He was actually the fourth vote on nacho, but whatever. How is voting for the first rvs wagon a scum tell? Also, is this really what you're calling "hard defending"? Because this is the only instance of four trouble talking about arc:In post 77, The Central Scrutinizer wrote: Nah, I'll stick with the dude who voted third and then hard defended a new player.
He also called empking definitely town, who incidentally was the third vote on nacho, is he hard defending him too?In post 65, FourTrouble wrote:Arc obviously has different way of playing but he's trying to figure things out, seems like town.
I think early mid-wagon votes are often good places for scum; and I think scum buddying new players is a good thing for scum to do.
Are these new concepts?
Your reasoning is shallow.
Why were you afraid of putting nacho at l-2 on page one? Because i find that more suspect than someone putting fourth vote on an rvs wagon. It reads self conscious, coupled as it was with an over justification. And your first post is more what I read as buddying than four trouble saying a new player seems like town.-
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Tammy Survivor
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In post 193, Whiskers wrote:That's ok, I'm not actually town.-
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Tammy Survivor
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I followed f11 where nacho and ft were partners, and ft is capable of putting forth reasoning and effort as scum, and I get the sense that he would as scum. His vote on whiskers may not have been great but it felt unpremeditated whereas as scum there's a sense of orchestration in his posts or at least there was in the game I followed. Also, ive done a similar thing as town in voting for a player for being passive who I associate with aggressiveness. So, it might have been shortsighted and not the greatest vote, but it read more townish to me.In post 194, serrapaladin wrote:Regardless, FT's vote was bad, so I have no idea why Tammy and Nacho read him town.-
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Tammy Survivor
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...you do realize that he was already voting empking at the time, right?In post 203, The Central Scrutinizer wrote:
Translation: "plz someone build a wagon for one of these guys so I can vote without responsibility; I'm not choosy which."In post 199, Arc wrote:Gut mostly. TCS looks more like scum of the pair, but Empking feels more like scum. Honestly I could vote either way at the moment.-
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Tammy Survivor
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In post 204, The Avering wrote:There will be no wagon on Emp or TCS today anyway.
Who are your top two scum reads with reasoning? Please and thank you.
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Nacho - in that normal game that you talked about where the neighbors were told they were mafia on day three, did everyone think they were town until that day?-
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Tammy Survivor
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Why wouldn't they? People saying scum wouldn't do what scum actually do has been the reason for several scum wins in my experience. I don't hold to that.In post 212, The Central Scrutinizer wrote:
The information I gain pertains to my role... so I'm not really interested in discussing the subject further.In post 209, Tammy wrote:
What information did you gain? The nature of my role would make me not care about my flavor being outed either in the strictest sense. My issue with it is that you know that there are personal win conditions in addition to the primary ones, that there's a very strong likelihood of there being multiple threats to town, and someone misspells your role name just like its misspelled in your role pm and without hesitation you play along. Doesn't make sense to me, not if you're town. It does make sense to me if your scum though, as you can plant that lyncher seed and make people wary of lynching you.In post 191, The Central Scrutinizer wrote:
Honestly, because the nature of my role makes me not really care TOO too much about my flavor being outed, and second, because I thought it was odd that EmpKing would misspell the name Bear Grylls just like my Role PM did. I gained at least some information by responding to this.In post 187, Tammy wrote:Buh. This game needs an adrenaline injection or something. It's kinda hard to get any reads I feel great about when most everyone is standing around the water cooler filing their nails.
The empking/TCS thing is twitch inducing though I *feel* like empking might be town. Maybe it's the conviction that he's obvtown because he was invested early on. I don't agree with that, but meh whatever.
@ TCSWhy did you out that you were grills immediately? You know you're playing in a possibly bastard game, one that has personal win conditions in addition to the standard win condition, and the first mention of your role name causes you to out that it's you?
So you think scum wants to put themselves out there like that on day 1, page 1? And you call my reasoning shallow.
I want to see you scumhunting. Not distorting what people are saying. Not exaggerating what people are saying, not defaulting to a lame wiki tell that's a crap shoot. Something more.TCS wrote:
Welcome to day 1 mafia.
There's probably a reason it's on the wiki? Works better than 50% in my experience.
What scum tells do you want me to use this early? Feh.
[/quote]Your reasoning is shallow.
You caught me. Take me away. I'm a bulletproof miller vig, and Nacho is my mason partner.TCS wrote: Why were you afraid of putting nacho at l-2 on page one? Because i find that more suspect than someone putting fourth vote on an rvs wagon. It reads self conscious, coupled as it was with an over justification. And your first post is more what I read as buddying than four trouble saying a new player seems like town.
This kind of cutesy cheeky response doesn't make you look town.-
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Tammy Survivor
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Votecount 1.9
FuDuzn (3) - FourTrouble, Empking, Zdenek
The Central Scrutinizer (3) - Nachomamma8, Arc, Whiskers
Tammy (2) - The Avering, The Central Scrutinizer
Zdenek (1) - Serrapaladin
Arc (1) - FuDuzn
Nachomamma8 (1) - Tammy
Whiskers (1) - PimHel
Not Voting (0)
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
FourTrouble will be replaced if he does not post in the next 24 hours.
This has got to be the weirdest reason I have ever been voted. Like I want to tell you to put down the crack pipe, but I'm too dumbfounded to actually think that. Did you get mad that I asked for your top two scum reads with reasoning and decide to stretch for a marathon or something? Someone says "I'm not town" which leaves me with wonder and you take that for a scum tell? Uh no. Sorry. Try again. When my role suggests there are threats to the town (plural), I expect there to be more than one. I've made that obvious. Someone says theyre not town. I'm gonna think that's not mafia, so it's something else. Don't have a clue what it could be, but yeah I wonder.In post 220, The Avering wrote:Oh lol
Unvote; Vote: Tammy
I can change my alignment to Survivor. I suspect scum don't have that luxury since balance et al. So Tammy being all suspicious of this is a ping. It's enough.
But you're right, I can't change my alignment myself and I didnt have any reason to think that people could change their alignments themselves.Last edited by Jebus on Wed May 08, 2013 1:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.-
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Tammy Survivor
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I'm quite obviously town.In post 222, Empking wrote:I believe Avering believes what he's saying; so he's town. He's also wildly wrong; Tammy might be scum, I've no reason to think she isn't, but not for that.-
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Tammy Survivor
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OMGUS does not become you.
Do you make a habit of voting the person who is trying to drive the game forward and Scumhunt on a regular basis? Or are you just MAD.-
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Tammy Survivor
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Oh I remember reading that.In post 230, Arc wrote:BTW Tammy, I'm not sure if you noticed earlier, but unvotes are required in this game, so whether it is intentional or not, you are currently sitting on nacho.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: the central scrutinizer-
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Tammy Survivor
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No. Nobody should full claim.In post 235, PimHel wrote:Avering's looking better and I could see this coming from TCS.
Arc dropped though.
Nothing else is of interest, except
WHISKERS SHOULD FULL-CLAIM-
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Tammy Survivor
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So, you responded to this post right after I posted this and responded to something else later. Did it really take you nearly 24 hours to come up with this lame ass response? Because if you truly thought I was full of shit, this should have been your response yesterday.In post 239, The Central Scrutinizer wrote:
I have this crazy theory that mafia is basically just a bunch of people playing pin the tail on the donkey, and that "scumhunting" per se doesn't really matter. The trick is just to find out who's full of shit, and I feel like your scumhunting is full of shit right now.In post 227, Tammy wrote:
OMGUS does not become you.
Do you make a habit of voting the person who is trying to drive the game forward and Scumhunt on a regular basis? Or are you just MAD.
Maybe that will change later, but I can't really promise what you will do will make me do.
And here's what you get to do now. Why am I full of shit? I've told you why you're full of shit, so now you get to say something that has meaning because mudslinging without anything behind it is shallower than your wiki tell.
My scumhunting isn't even close to being full of shit. It probably matters more to me than anyone else that my scum reads are right this game, and I'm using what little there is here to try to figure you people out. Maybe it's true as nacho said that everyone is being passive until they figure out what's going on with the alignment changes, but I think that's lame and it's lame to let people get away with that.
So, show me your suspicions are genuine and not just made up of you being pouty because I think you're scum.-
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Tammy Survivor
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Tammy Survivor
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I agree that avering looks townish now based on his reasoning for voting me, but I'm still concerned that he can change his role to win with scum.In post 244, PimHel wrote:1. Whiskers is scummy, while I have a slight town read on the Avering
2. Avering has said that he can change into a Survivor, while we don't know how it works for Whiskers.
3. I don't trust any role that can win with scum.
Why shouldn't he full-claim?
I don't think anyone should full claim. Part of this is part of why I'm suspect about TCS' outing his character without hesitation. I have a personal win condition that involves two characters that could be in this game. (I kinda doubt they are in the game though). Anyway I have no idea if my personal win condition is at odds with my town win condition or what fulfilling it would do to my town win condition, so I'm pretty much trying to ignore it but I don't want to know people's characters because I'd rather not have it influence my actions.
Mainly though, I seriously doubt I'm the only one with a personal win condition that specifies another character, so I think it's just safer if no one full claims.-
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Tammy Survivor
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So, you've been keeping up with the game, and this is what you choose to respond to?In post 248, FuDuzn wrote:
To me this is a question you could easily ask the mod about, I think this soft claim is worse then Whiskers. And if your personal wincon is at odds with the towns wincon then you are just as bad as Whiskers, if not worse.In post 247, Tammy wrote:
I agree that avering looks townish now based on his reasoning for voting me, but I'm still concerned that he can change his role to win with scum.In post 244, PimHel wrote:1. Whiskers is scummy, while I have a slight town read on the Avering
2. Avering has said that he can change into a Survivor, while we don't know how it works for Whiskers.
3. I don't trust any role that can win with scum.
Why shouldn't he full-claim?
I don't think anyone should full claim. Part of this is part of why I'm suspect about TCS' outing his character without hesitation. I have a personal win condition that involves two characters that could be in this game. (I kinda doubt they are in the game though). Anyway I have no idea if my personal win condition is at odds with my town win condition or what fulfilling it would do to my town win condition, so I'm pretty much trying to ignore it but I don't want to know people's characters because I'd rather not have it influence my actions.
Mainly though, I seriously doubt I'm the only one with a personal win condition that specifies another character, so I think it's just safer if no one full claims.
This is not a vanilla game. Everyone has a role, or something. There are personal win conditions in the op. Do you actually think the mod would answer that question and truthfully? This is not your first game fuduzn, don't act like it.
I never said my personal win condition was at odds with my town win con, because I don't know anything, and I don't care. My personal win condition doesn't mean anything to me really. Do you honestly think if it did and that's what I was shooting for that I would mention it? I'm not a moron.-
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Tammy Survivor
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Votecount 1.10
The Central Scrutinizer (4) - Nachomamma8, Arc, Whiskers, Tammy
FuDuzn (3) - FourTrouble, Empking, Zdenek
Tammy (2) - The Avering, The Central Scrutinizer
Zdenek (1) - Serrapaladin
Arc (1) - FuDuzn
Whiskers (1) - PimHel
Not Voting (0)
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
In post 246, The Central Scrutinizer wrote:
Do you use that whole timing argument often, or is it just a scum tactic? Cause I'm not going to convince you to unvote me in any game ever if you actually think that's a scumtell.
Why are you ignoring everything I said and focusing on that? You still didn't answer my question.
In order for it to be a scum tactic, I'd have to be scum, which I'm not. I thought it was odd that it took you nearly 24 hours to come up with that response even though you'd already responded. It wasn't like you pointed out things that were bugging you, which would show you actually reading my posts and trying to determine my alignment. You just said, hey I think you're full of shit. That response could have very easily been given the previous day when you said curiosity mainly. I hadn't posted anything new in the meantime which makes it especially odd.
Also, I don't really believe in scumtells. I have a few that work on the whole far better than average, but I'm not a big scum tell person.
If you are town, and you want me to unvote you, then I want to see your thought process. Why am I full of shit, so much so that you think I'm scum or are pretending to think I'm scum? I think I'm very obviously trying to figure this game and people out. And am trying to get the game going forward a little which is especially important if people's alignments do change after today, which has been difficult because most people around here are practically in hiding and not giving much to go on. So show me that your suspicion of me is genuine and not just made up, that's what I actually look for.Last edited by Jebus on Mon May 13, 2013 3:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.-
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Tammy Survivor
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In post 188, Tammy wrote:In post 162, FuDuzn wrote:See in Post 73 that you quoted, I wasn't trying to defend myself or use self meta. People were asking why I wasn't answering Arc's questioning(what I did, and still, think was deflection), so I was explaining why.
If anything, it helps to explain my thought process into why I do think Arc is scum and why I continue to be on him.
This is weak and pretty lame. Arc asked you some pretty standard questions. Why did you vote TCS in the first place? Arc is right, you didn't comment on it. What are your actual reads?
Going oh see I just pick a scum read and stick with that and don't really bother with looking for other scum until one is caught is wtf? You can't be serious about that. I don't remember you being so one note in leprechaun mafia.
Hey, fuduzn. Why aren't you responding to this btw?-
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Tammy Survivor
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Fuduzn - I'm not going to quote that because I'm on my phone and it's a pain in the ass.
There is no wine in front of me, sadly. I brought up what I brought up because I doubt I'm the only one with a personal win condition like that. When I saw my role pm, I thought everyone had one involving another person, so when empking clearly tried to out grills and TCS obliged, I thought it was suspect. I considered the possibility at first that they were partners going for a silly gambit but decided that was more unlikely. But then I still wondered why TCS outed his character so easily, and wondered briefly if scum didn't have personal win conditions, hence me asking about why he outed his character like that. Then whiskers claimed to not have a regular role per se, therefore he might not have a personal win condition like mine.
I think it's pretty clear if you read my post why I mentioned having a personal win condition. It explains why I don't want anyone full claiming. TCS gladly giving away his character and saying that the flavor doesn't mean anything to his role means its possible he doesn't have a personal win condition like mine or he would have understood my response to him. Pimhel would have understood why I didn't want anyone full claiming without me saying anything. I don't know why this is hard to understand. I don't know if I'm the only one with a personal win condition like that, but I doubt I am. Therefore, people shouldnt full claim.
I don't care about my personal win condition, that's why I have no problem talking about it. If I cared about it, I wouldn't have even brought it up. I would be all for whiskers full claiming; it wouldn't have bothered me that TCS outed his character as that would help me narrow down my search. I don't want to know though, and in case there are some wihtout a win condition like that, they should be aware there are some so don't full claim. This should be pretty self explanatory.
And just so you know wifom really only applies to things that are just as likely to be one or the other.
I'm not even close to Sheeping zdenek on a meta thing. That's stretching and an attempt to discredit me. Zdeneks self meta argument is bad, in that I don't agree with it, but him looking through your meta is kinda townish and I was interested in seeing where the argument went as I figured I could get a better read on both of you from that. I asked about you and the way you were behaving because you seem way less engaged than the game we played together. I also didn't remember you just saying one person is scum and not really looking for others, which is what it sounded like you were saying here.
I'm just going to ignore your comment about me and women, it got old enough in leprechaun mafia.
Pedit: it answered why I don't want anyone full claiming fuduzn.-
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Tammy Survivor
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Except I have no way of knowing if my personal win con is incompatible or will change my town win con. It could very well be compatible with my town win con. It could very well be a joke by the mod as one or both of the people might not even be in the game. It's just there and it's why I don't want people full claiming. I might not be the only one, and I don't want to be distracted by it.In post 257, FuDuzn wrote: But also, that is wifom. No one except you knows how likely or not you are to screw town over in favor of your personal wincon. So you are just as likely to be telling us the truth, or completely lying out of your ass.
So what you're suggesting is that ts just as likely that I propose a way that I couldn't fulfill my personal win con or make it much harder on myself just so I could possibly screw over town with a win con that might not even be contra to town? I mean I suppose it's possible, but likely? Not from someone like me. Sorry.-
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Tammy Survivor
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Any time a town win condition uses the plural for threats, there's a possibility there's more than one threat.In post 262, Arc wrote: While this discussion is up, whiskers, in post 231, you say you can win with any faction, not "win with either the scum or the town", was this a slip that there is more than two factions in this game? It would be helpful information if you could let us know.-
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Tammy Survivor
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Yeah, I'm fine with him talking about his role if he wants. I mean who knows what people's win conditions are, but I'd hope that talking about roles wouldn't be harmful.In post 276, PimHel wrote: @Tammy
So if Whiskers claims what the requirements are without his role name, you're fine with it?
Also, shouldn't you have been all over Empking instead of TCS?
As far as Empking, if I were an original player in the game I would have been questioning Empking more. At first, I thought they could be partners, then I thought Empking was a lyncher, but Empking seemed kind of townish. Then he asked if anyone knew anything about the afterlife, which makes it sound like he's just a bit semi-informed or something. Then I got a strong town read on you and you vouched for Empking and claimed to know that this was his town play. If I don't have a strong reason to think someone's scum and a town read claims to have meta reasons for town reading someone else, I tend to take that into account, especially on day one.
TCS hasn't given me a reason to think he's town, and I thought the way he dealt with the whole thing suspect.-
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Tammy Survivor
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I always love it when people who are doing little more than sideline sniping criticize the people who are actively trying to get the game moving forward. As I've already said, I'm struggling to get reads I feel confident about, and a big reason why is because this game is so damn inactive. I'm trying to move the game forward and get people talking, but it's pretty much impossible when people are just sitting around going meh. This is totally not how I scumhunt for the appearance of it when I'm scum, but good try. Now actually read my posts.In post 302, The Avering wrote: Tammy still feels off, like she was scumhunting for the appearance of scumhunting, not truly for it.-
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Tammy Survivor
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It's where my vote is and is my best guess for actual scum right now. But, I don't feel confident enough in it to tell you that's where your vote should be.In post 286, FourTrouble wrote:Tammy, you agree with Nacho about voting TCS?-
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Tammy Survivor
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Okay I like fuduzn, think he's probably town.
I'm not sure what to do with Avering and Whiskers. I feel like Avering is less of a threat to the town than Whiskers though. The asking to be killed on a night when he is town rather than survivor feels super genuine and is something I would just imagine would come from someone who would prefer to be town if he could. Whiskers though. I don't know what to do about whiskers.-
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Tammy Survivor
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Tammy Survivor
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I don't think sheeping means what you think it means fuduzn. Don't even start trying to stretch. I asked you a question based on my experience with you in a game. My impression was that you were saying that you basically stick with one person until they're lynched, which was contra to my experience with you in leprechaun in which you sounded more engaged and didn't actually do that. Asking you a question is not sheeping someone else. Sorry. Like I think you're probably town but this is a scummy stretch.In post 365, FuDuzn wrote:I still would like to see an Arc lynch, but I don't think I will convince anyone else to join me. ZD seems scummy based off of his 'case' on me and how he kept tweeking it to fit his argument. I don't like Tammy(not personally, in the game), but I know she has a balls to wall get a bit crazy playstyle, she did start to sheep on ZD a bit but has backed off, she would be someone to go back to but not sure if I could see her as scum at this juncture. I still am weary about lynching Whiskers, but even if he isn't a jester I don't get scum vibes from him anyways.
Basically, let's lynch Arc. But I could be convinced to switch to ZD/Rinin.-
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Tammy Survivor
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Yeah they are confrontational and sassy. Thanks! You've just described my town play. I'm much more subdued and less confrontational when scum (If you want a glimpse of my scum play, look at the way nacho's playing, that's pretty close to how I play as scum btw). Why would you think being aggressive and putting yourself out there is not town?In post 361, riningear wrote:
Her reactions are all very confrontational and sassy. In, like, the "woah calm the fuck down there" kind of way. It's as if she's just trying to make us all back down so we don't get on her bad side. (Which would be, if our suspicions are right, mafia or anti-town third-party.)In post 358, Whiskers wrote:[preedit]
Ok, a good time to post this anyway then. WHY is Tammy "grey" or scum? I've been reading her as "about as town as serrapaladin" but "twice as active as serrapaladin"-- in other words, very Townie.
Also, her "win condition" is very vague. If it really doesn't matter who gets lynched, then this means that she wouldn't mind watching each non-anti get picked off one by one.
Where are you getting I even suggested my win condition doesn't matter who gets lynched? My win condition is a town win condition. I have a personal win condition which include me using my role on certain characters. But, I worry that it could cause my alignment to shift, therefore I don't want to know people's characters because I don't want to get distracted. And I doubt I'm the only one with that type of win condition. Like this shouldn't be very hard to understand. There is very little chance that me, with a scum win condition, cares that my personal win condition might change my alignment and decides to make it harder for me to fulfill that. Sorry, but you're barking up the wrong tree here.-
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Tammy Survivor
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No, but you thought I was until endgame I think.In post 374, FuDuzn wrote: Pre Edit: Tammy, were you scum in leprachaun mafia?-
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Tammy Survivor
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That's called a really strong case of confirmation bias >_>In post 377, FuDuzn wrote:Ha, and apparently I still think you were scum there. I was thinking 'but Tammy, you acted the same as scum once'.
I have trouble letting things go lol.-
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Tammy Survivor
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If he were an experience player I'd be discounting this immediately, but that he's new eh. It makes me feel twitchy. But he might just not know any better.In post 364, serrapaladin wrote:Wasn't directed at you Whiskers.
is the Amished tell, but I haven't figured rinin out yet, hence the question mark.In post 357, riningear wrote:Zdenek did seem kind of scummy reading through his stuff, which sucks because now I gotta defend my sorry non-scum ass.-
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Tammy Survivor
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What is wrong with talking on so many things at once? What does that even mean?In post 353, riningear wrote:GuyInAFreezerTammy: Kind of reading grey to me. Something seems off about the way she talks and addresses people. Dunno. It's basically valid hunting, but taking on so many things at once is kind of off-putting, and the way she defends herself puts me off as well. And how she addresses people. But that's probably just her style of talking, being so confrontational to everyone. Regardless of townie or scum status, she's extremely aggressive in keeping attention and suspicious off herself. Possible vote in the future depending on how things go and what she says.
You say that empking is deep grey, but vote me. Do you typically vote your lesser scum reads? Just marking this because if either of you ever flip scum, this needs to be looked at. You putting him as your scum read and mentioning him later but not voting him is eh.riningear wrote: EmpKing: Deep grey. He's sure backsassing a lot, and not really doing much explaining. Seems like he's just hitching a ride with the drama boat.
Yeah these are not town roles. Why would you think there's a cult? Isn't this your second time playing?rin wrote: TCS: Non-mafia... if only because he has a much different role in all this, from what he's implied throughout the thread. Possible third party or cult?
Yes, what's your read?rin wrote: The Avering: Do I really have to.-
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Tammy Survivor
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Gods this is atrocious. I kinda wanna lynch whiskers even if he's a jester just because I can't trust him or his role.In post 350, Whiskers wrote:[
I'll lynch whomever; even though I don't have reasons, I've liked all of the wagons today. Maybe I'm just gutty right now. Fuduzn tops my list, but Zdenek and TCS are also acceptable lynches imo.-
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Tammy Survivor
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I'm the vig you asshats. That's why I said it means more to me that my scum reads are correct. That's why I don't want to know characters because if I kill two certain characters it fulfills my personal win condition, but I worry if they're town it might actually turn me into a serial killer, and I don't that to happen.
So, if you do decide to collectively derp and lynch me, you look at Empking, TCS, Nacho and the Zdenek replacement. There will be scum there.-
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Tammy Survivor
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Tammy Survivor
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I'm at L-2... why not?In post 385, FuDuzn wrote:Why......claim?-
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Tammy Survivor
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No. Because all I'm given is two characters. I'm not told their alignments. They could very easily be scum. But, if I know who they are, wouldn't I pretty much be compelled to kill them to fulfill my first win condition, or get distracted by that? I'd rather just focus on my town win condition and take care of who I think are scum or anti-town.In post 389, Empking wrote:
Surely if you want to avoid killing two people then knowing who they are would be pretty useful?In post 384, Tammy wrote:I'm the vig you asshats. That's why I said it means more to me that my scum reads are correct. That's why I don't want to know characters because if I kill two certain characters it fulfills my personal win condition, but I worry if they're town it might actually turn me into a serial killer, and I don't that to happen.-
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Tammy Survivor
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There's not much of a difference between L-1 and L-2.In post 388, FuDuzn wrote:But that isn't L-1.
And I think a ZD/Rinin lynch can happen. He is a hell of a lot scummier than you.
And I'm not scummy at all.-
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Tammy Survivor
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Like for effing serious empking you are not new to mafia. You have to know that the person who is pretty active and aggressive and trying to move the game forward and figure out alignments is far more often town than scum. You're not a moron. I could totally see a newbie going "oh that makes me paranoid it's could be scum trying to fool me" but you're not a newbie and don't have that excuse.-
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Tammy Survivor
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Do better than that Empking. You're sounding really fake right now. And I want you to do better. You show the town what you're really made of. It might not matter tomorrow, but if I'm actually lynched, it will be examined later if any member of the town is still alive and smart, and I want you to make it clear why obvious town is suspect in your eyes.In post 393, Empking wrote:
I'm not so sure you're trying to find out alignments. It seems more like you've got set alignments to begin with and are badgering people who step out of them.In post 392, Tammy wrote:Like for effing serious empking you are not new to mafia. You have to know that the person who is pretty active and aggressive and trying to move the game forward and figure out alignments is far more often town than scum. You're not a moron. I could totally see a newbie going "oh that makes me paranoid it's could be scum trying to fool me" but you're not a newbie and don't have that excuse.-
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Tammy Survivor
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Do you know how much the people in this game are being lazy? This game started on May 1st. That's 16 days ago, and barely anyone is participating. TCS last few posts are just talking about TV or something but nothing to do with the actual game, and Empking is actually saying that's town. Do you guys pay attention? Are you actually serious? One or both of them is scum. I'll be super surprised if they both come back town. I do take PimHel's town read on Empking into account, but he's still objectively scummy but I also know that that's Empking's play. But still.
And fourtrouble who knows... he could be scum but I still do think there's something to him voting whiskers for being passive as I have done that myself and think it's a more town thing to do. I think that if he were scum knowing that whiskers always town reads him he'd try to buddy him or something or act like how he acts to get the town read.
Fuduzn is most likely town. So is Serrapaladin.
I don't know what to think about the Avering. Except his I want to be killed on a night when I'm town sounds really genuine so even if he isn't town he sounds like he's in a town mindset. Arc might be town.
Seriously think that scum are in Nacho, Empking, TCS, zdenek replacement.
I have no idea what to make of whiskers.
I was trying to decide between whiskers or nacho for tonight, but whatever. If you lynch me please look at my suspect list.-
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Tammy Survivor
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Tammy Survivor
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Whatever. I've said my piece and gave my reads. Leave your vote there. I'm sure scum want to get rid of the vig; it makes it really convenient.In post 397, Empking wrote:
You're not obvious town. You're clearly not obvious town. You're just trying to badger people into saying your obvious town. THe Vig claim is also very convenient for that badgering approach.In post 394, Tammy wrote:
Do better than that Empking. You're sounding really fake right now. And I want you to do better. You show the town what you're really made of. It might not matter tomorrow, but if I'm actually lynched, it will be examined later if any member of the town is still alive and smart, and I want you to make it clear why obvious town is suspect in your eyes.In post 393, Empking wrote:
I'm not so sure you're trying to find out alignments. It seems more like you've got set alignments to begin with and are badgering people who step out of them.In post 392, Tammy wrote:Like for effing serious empking you are not new to mafia. You have to know that the person who is pretty active and aggressive and trying to move the game forward and figure out alignments is far more often town than scum. You're not a moron. I could totally see a newbie going "oh that makes me paranoid it's could be scum trying to fool me" but you're not a newbie and don't have that excuse.
And I am obviously town and you know it.-
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Tammy Survivor
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Empking - How is a vig claim convenient for a badering approach. And what the fuck is that? Being active is now a badgering approach. Getting reads is now a badgering approach. Interesting and good to know.
I suppose being town means just not participating and barely doing anything or trying to get reads.
Whatever I'm done. Just town, look at my reads when I'm done. Particularly at Nacho who's lack of engagement is really suspect. And Empking who is literally trying to push to get rid of the vig. I mean seriously if anyone can't read through my posts and see that I'm being sincere about this whole thing then I don't know what to tell you. Good luck with your game of people not participating or trying to actually find scum.-
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Tammy Survivor
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Votecount 1.16
The Central Scrutinizer (3) - Nachomamma8, Arc, Tammy
FuDuzn (2) - FourTrouble, Empking
Tammy (2) - The Avering, Riningear
Riningear (2) - Serrapaladin, FuDuzn
Whiskers (1) - PimHel
FourTrouble (1) - The Central Scrutinizer
Not Voting (1) - Whiskers
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
The vote in post 383 (Empking for Tammy) does not count because lack of unvote.
PimHel is V/LA until 5/20
And just so you know this does not actually answer the question. But why am I not surprised. It's easier for you to just spout bs than actually come up with a real answer.In post 397, Empking wrote:
You're not obvious town. You're clearly not obvious town. You're just trying to badger people into saying your obvious town. THe Vig claim is also very convenient for that badgering approach.In post 394, Tammy wrote:
Do better than that Empking. You're sounding really fake right now. And I want you to do better. You show the town what you're really made of. It might not matter tomorrow, but if I'm actually lynched, it will be examined later if any member of the town is still alive and smart, and I want you to make it clear why obvious town is suspect in your eyes.In post 393, Empking wrote:
I'm not so sure you're trying to find out alignments. It seems more like you've got set alignments to begin with and are badgering people who step out of them.In post 392, Tammy wrote:Like for effing serious empking you are not new to mafia. You have to know that the person who is pretty active and aggressive and trying to move the game forward and figure out alignments is far more often town than scum. You're not a moron. I could totally see a newbie going "oh that makes me paranoid it's could be scum trying to fool me" but you're not a newbie and don't have that excuse.Last edited by Jebus on Sat May 18, 2013 4:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.-
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Tammy Survivor
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Tammy Survivor
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Oh and here's the flavor in case it just isn't obvious that everything I've said is leading up to this is true. I'm Patrick Bateman. (misaligned anyone? Got a kick out of finding out I was a vig and not a serial killer). The two people mentioned in my personal win condition are Paul Allen and a hooker. But, I kinda don't think either of them are in the game anyway, but it's pretty humorous regardless.-
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Tammy Survivor
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Tammy Survivor
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So, scum fake claim vig on day one these days? OOOOOOOOKKKKKKAAAAAAAYYYYYYY. You're not a moron. Or are you?In post 402, Empking wrote: You're acting like a crazy person demanding answers to questions never asked. You're just trying to save your skin, its an original gambit but not one I wish to indulge.
(The whole
Post A: One of TCS or Empking are scum.
Post B: Empking is scum so don't listen to him, but I'm not lifting my vote from TCS because I've magically decided that they're partners.
is as fake as anything too.)
I made it clear when I joined this game that I was suspect of the interaction between you and TCS at the beginning of the game. I came around to thinking maybe you were town, but I was wrong on that. So was Pimhel. I've thought TCS was scum this whole time and he's not doing anything to make me think differently. I'd also be interested in a Zdenek replacement lynch or a you lynch. But a you lynch isn't going to happen because apparently to the people on this playlist, inactive means town, whereas active and trying to figure the game out means scum. I feel like I entered the twilight zone of mafia here.-
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Tammy Survivor
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Tammy Survivor
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Tammy Survivor
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Dafuq? You can't be serious. You just can't. I actually think you're smarter than this Empking, which is why I'm having a problem with your play.In post 408, Empking wrote:
So you're calling me scum because I didn't give in to your badgering to do whatever you say, and to ignore the elephant in the room of your repeated declarations of being obv-town.In post 404, Tammy wrote:Um Empking, just because there wasn't a question mark, doesn't mean that telling you to make it clear why I'm suspect isn't a question, but nice way to skirt the issue.
On day one, the question is whether your false claim is found at sooner or later. Your implicit 'vote me and I'll vig you' approach is why the vig claim is awfully convenient.
You do recall that you were the first person to declare yourself obvtown...do you not? Don't you? Here's a refresher:
In post 74, Empking wrote:
Because I'm obvtown and TCS is your buddy?In post 73, FuDuzn wrote:
If I were to play devils advocate though, the interaction between empking/TCS seems a bit weird but there is little to no chance I would switch to one of them at this point.In post 81, Empking wrote:
The rollsseyes there is overcompensating btw.In post 80, Arc wrote:No, I think I have the strength of mind not to get on a mafia site when I'm drunk.
I have a question for you now, why are you "obvtown"? I haven't seen anything that points strongly towards either alignment yet, but I do find you suspicious already. So if you made an "obvtown" post somewhere and I missed it, I'd like to see it. :rollseyes:
I'm the only player properly invested in this game and trying to find the scum, ergo obvtown. Compare me to Whiskers, for example, I don't think he's said one word that could be construed as useful.
When I first said I was obvtown to you, it was partly in jest, to see how you might or might not respond because you were calling yourself obvtown for really weak reasons. You can't now use calling myself obtown against me, when sorry but I have been playing obvtown. I know my town play, and I know my obvtown play and this is it.
I never said vote me and I'll vig you. But nice way to stretch, I'm glad your showing your obvscum ways. I'm pretty sure I said earlier the two people I considered vigging were whiskers and Nacho. OMG why didn't I tell everyone I had a scum read on Nacho? Because you don't effing do that. If you have been reading my posts, like you should be if you're town, you would see me talking about how important to me it is that my scum reads are correct, you would see that me not wanting for people to claim their characters so it doesn't interfere with my town win condition.
You would see all that if you were actually reading, but instead your making stuff up that I never even said.
I've never even badgered anyone to do what I want. Unless you consider people asking questions and getting people to participate badgering. IF I were badgering people to do what I wanted, when FourTrouble asked me about voting TCS, I'd have been like yes vote him, not he's who I'm voting for but I don't feel confident enough to tell other people to vote him.
Don't you dare try to twist the way I'm playing. You can call me aggressive if you want. But badgering people to do what I want? That's just complete made up bullshit. And I never ever threatened to vig anyone who voted me. This is completely made up and this is why you're more likely scum.-
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Tammy Survivor
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If you're town, you should probably read through some games, so you actually know how town behaves. If you're scum, keep it up. You're predecessor was meh and so are you.In post 407, riningear wrote:
@Tammy: This sums up my argument for you. No if, and, ors, or butts [sic].In post 397, Empking wrote: You're not obvious town. You're clearly not obvious town. You're just trying to badger people into saying your obvious town. THe Vig claim is also very convenient for that badgering approach.
You act like you're holding a kitchen knife and screaming out the front door when you hear sirens in the distance. Asking questions to respond to questions, cussing out everyone like you're keeping the kids off your lawn, jumping around points... It's suspicious as all hell.
Your post mainly about self-meta ("oh, well THIS is how I play town") didn't help either.
Keeping vote on Tammy.
Also, how do I know about cults and third parties? I read through a lot of the mafiascum wiki when I realized that everyone seems to have a role (and because everyone tells me to anyway). Mine's odd as well but whatever. I'm getting my first taste of a bastard mod game. :U-
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Tammy Survivor
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Tammy Survivor
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You're probably right. It's not a cool thing anyway. I don't have the thickest of skin, but I rarely get suspected as town, so it's not usually a problem. Also, it's not about the suspicion solely. Empking refused to answer me for why I was so obviously scum. Something he should be able to answer, but it's empking, so I don't know why I was expecting anything more, and yes, he's probably scum.In post 416, serrapaladin wrote:You'd think in a game about suspicion, people would have a thicker skin
Emp: why would scum-Tammy fakeclaim vig, when it's pretty easy to confirm? I'd say worst case is she's now a leashed SK, although I'm inclined to believe the vig claim.
Tammy: please don't replace out? Your activity was sort of refreshing...
Do you really think Emp/TCS would run this sort of show as scumbuddies? Any reason you suspect Nacho except his passiveness?
Why would scum of any flavor fake claim VIG on day one, that's a moronic move. And I'm not a moron. If I were trying to out another role as empking says I'm doing with the VIG claim, why would I do it with VIG? That's such a mind-numbingly stupid suggestion. If I were fake claiming as scum in order to draw out the real whatever, I'd fake claim doc or cop (duh). Those are roles much more likely to actually be in a game.
As far as whether or not emp/TCS would do that? I think it's possible, and empking's behavior last night makes it more likely that he's scum. His weak arguments against me that I'm badgering? Wtf? Makes me scum because I don't want to be lynched? Welcome to my town game. I'm never mislynched and always fight a possible lynch of myself when town, unless I think that my staying alive will hurt town in lylo. I don't really fight my lynch as scum because I don't really care about my games as scum. I hate playing scum, so I'm rarely engaged, active, or aggressive. His accusation that I started out the game with preset alignments is demonstrably false as well. I started off the game thinking empking was scum, but then thought I might be wrong mostly due to pimhel, thought that avering was most definitely scum but decided his manner of voting me and reasoning made him more likely to be town even though he's wrong, and thought that fuduzn had a good chance to be scum but decided he was probably town after interacting with him.
Nacho's passiveness is part of the problem. As is some of the things he comments on and asks questions about. They don't really seem to matter. Although I like him trying to suss out why people are suspicious of me. Hes played with me several times and would know this is my town play. But he's just kinda going along with the flow (which is incidentally how I'd be playing this game if I were scum). What bothers me about this is that when I talked about how slow this game was moving and how passive everyone is, he said people would probably be that way until we were sure what was up with the possible alignment changes. For someone who expects that might happen I would think he'd be a bit more engaged because getting people to be active today and get out their thoughts today is important. Because looking at how people's play over the next few days possibly changes and whether or not it's done organically can be a big help. I just got done playing a game with nacho!scum and he had a similar early approach. However, I don't feel really confident in being able to read nacho accurately until about day three, maybe starting on day two.
So, while I was debating about vigging nacho, it was most likely going to be whiskers. He's antiown in play and role and that's pretty much confirmed. He's a danger to town. I'm sure the fact that I made it clear he was one of my VIG targets will make him get on my lynch today.
With that being said, I might be too at some point. I think it would be kinda passé for my alignment to switch to sk because it's just humorous as hell that I'm misaligned in the first place and am town. But it could happen I guess, so lynching me might be the best decision to keep that from happening. Although that's stupid as hell anyway and because I've been active and aggressive, it would be easy to spot me if my alignment changes. Also, lynching me confirms me as town, so you can look at the fake suspicion that we thrown my way after, and it will let the majority of you get back to playing this game as if your listening to elevator music.
As far as the zdenek slot. Z was meh, his self meta argument against fuduzn was bad, but he replaced out before I could get a read on him. His replacement is meh, but he's so new I can't really read that. And I can totally buy someone that new getting paranoid about the aggressive and active player. I remember when I was new always thinking the person who was most active was most suspicious because I thought they were fooling me.
Arc - yes, I thought I was at l-2, and I could see it easily going to l-1 if TCS got on ns revolted me. I'm not used to playing in mini's and I thought it was five to lynch. I don't know why I thought that though because I don't play in micros either. I usually play in larges. And just because I was in a bad mood and had a meltdown doesn't mean I'm incapable of making good VIG choices. Everything I've done so far is me balancing what I'm doing with the day and thinking about what I'm going to do at night.
Fuduzn - good thought. I will. I shouldn't have played yesterday anyway and have too many things going on right now.
Also, you can tell me who to kill all you want, but Im making my own choice. I've already decided if I live whiskers is getting vigged. I don't even care if you don't like it or lynch me for it. That is the best thing for town and it's what I'm doing.
For anyone who thinks I'm a sk, you should reread my posts. As sk, I would encourage people to full claim, not ask people not too, or I just wouldn't say anything at all. I am misaligned. I should be an sk, but I'm not. My play would be a whole hell of a lot different if I were an sk.-
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Tammy Survivor
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In post 434, Empking wrote:
When did I say that? Tammy is continuing with her barrage of untruths to continue to try and get the game on the wrong track.In post 433, Tammy wrote:If I were trying to out another role as empking says I'm doing with the VIG claim, why would I do it with VIG?
This is a scum claim. Are you and TCS competing for who can use the most hyperbole in a game?
If I have a barrage of untruths, list them. But you couldn't even give reasons for why you actually suspect me last night, and instead argued over whether or not my request was a question.
But by all means co time with your empty rhetoric, hopefully once I'm confirmed town people will recognize you for what you are.
That's how I interpreted 425 and was picked up on by whiskers.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: empking
Whiskers I'll get back to you later.-
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Tammy Survivor
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- Joined: January 13, 2012
TCS here. I pointed this out before. Ft had only called empking definitely town, and here you say he's calling lots definitely town. Then you claim he's buddying arc when all he did was say he seems town.In post 191, The Central Scrutinizer wrote:
Well, calling lots of players "definitely town" is often a red flag, so it does reinforce my argument that FourTrouble is scum.
I think early mid-wagon votes are often good places for scum; and I think scum buddying new players is a good thing for scum to do.
Are these new concepts?
That's exaggeration of the stances to make him look bad.
Empking is scum claiming by using "barrage of untruths" in an attempt to use empty rhetoric to make me look bad. I haven't told any untruths at all. That is not trying to assess my motivations which means he's not actually scumhunting but is pretending to. He's not actually trying to figure this game out because he's not town.