[Mini 1447] Misaligned Malignant Multi-verse Mafia (abandon)

[Nachomamma8]

VOTE: Nacho
VOTE: Jebus

Has anyone played a Jebus bastard-mod before? How bastard is it?

Last time I played a Jebus NORMAL game, there was a neighborhood that was told on Day 3 that they were the mafia, there were two doctors who, if they targetted each other, would kill each other, and every time a vanilla townie was lynched, they became a serial killer. You're in for a ride.

As much as I like day 1 quicklynches, I like nacho, so f that noise.

VOTE: FourTrouble

1. Third vote
2. Potato
3. Can't say fuck

Also, Emp, isn't his name spelled "Grylls"?

<3

Vote: FourTrouble

[Nachomamma8]

good memories.

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: GIF

Will look at the posts after dinner.

Vote: PimHel

[Nachomamma8]

Also, Emp, isn't his name spelled "Grylls"?

Ha, you fell my trick. TCS is Bear Grylls, Survivor!

I do like drinking my own piss.

I should point out that my role PM doesn't say Bear Grylls is a survivor. I deduced that myself with my genius.

I'm not a Survivor. Part of the bastardmoddery, I suppose.

I am Bear "Grilles," according to my role PM though. So it seems to me that the only way you could possibly have come to think of that gambit is that you're a Lyncher and I'm the lynchee.

Boring.

Funny. If this were actually true, I don't really think that Empking would crow so publicly that he found you. Not his style.

Vote: TCS

[Nachomamma8]

UNVOTE:

I am Bear "Grilles," according to my role PM though. So it seems to me that the only way you could possibly have come to think of that gambit is that you're a Lyncher and I'm the lynchee.

Boring.

Wait I actually ferreted you out. I'm genuinely a genius, aren't I? I'm not a lyncher however, just a townie with some information.

This puts a bad taste in my mouth. Want to share it?

Bear Grilles is in the game; it's just that.

Does anyone know anything about an afterlife?

You make me doubt your claim as soon as you make it.

VOTE: Empking

I have no idea what you think his angle is as scum.

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: Arc

I thought the wagon on you was stupid until that post.

[Nachomamma8]

Unvote, Vote: FuDuZn

yeah, concussions fucking suck.

[Nachomamma8]

I don't really have time today, read up tomorrow.

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho, why are you unvoting?
That was Arc making real-life excuses.

Arc, I'm not going to make a case against you just yet.

I didn't like the Emp back off until he explained it.

Aw damn, Empking found me out again. Time to bus Fuduzn I guess.

Nah, I'll stick with the dude who voted third and then hard defended a new player.

Unvote, Vote: TCS

Nacho: Can my reaction to FuDzn saying he wouldn't vote me or obv-scum TCS be construed as being defensive; over or otherwise?

Not unless you start reaching really hard.

Four's Whiskers vote is weak. Posting with pictures isn't particularly constructive, sure, but there are better things to pick up on, as well as the possibility of a posting restriction.

Did you believe Whiskers had a posting restriction?

[Nachomamma8]

Nah, I'll stick with the dude who voted third and then hard defended a new player.

this specifically should've gotten more attention.

[Nachomamma8]

[Nachomamma8]

hell no.

[Nachomamma8]

Whiskers is probably town, but the rest is sort of boring as shit.

[Nachomamma8]

Why? Because Whiskers is dropping bit by bit.

Whiskers could've gone on with that stupid pictures posting restriction for a lot longer and got away with a lot more if he wanted to as scum. But he got bored and cut that shit out. That's probably town.

Nah, I'll stick with the dude who voted third and then hard defended a new player.

this specifically should've gotten more attention.

I mean, I guess I can NOT give a reason for my votes if you'd prefer that.

I probably would, yes. When your reason for someone being scum is being third on a wagon and hard defending a new player, you're pretty much just throwing useless reasoning out into the skies.

The only thing that I actually find potentially scummy is your use of self-meta.

That's nice because it's not a scumtell.

[Nachomamma8]

2 is a problem is Whiskers is town, not if he's scum. The first TCS clearly isn't willing to pursue, and flavor inconsistencies aren't really a reason to drop a post restriction that is going well otherwise.

[Nachomamma8]

2. is for both cases.

It's more helpful as scum to control the town, but if you're making a gambit as scum for the pictures, it's so you're unreadable. The gambit as town is to get reactions; it's not a plan that will be carried very far from the start. So hypothetical Whiskers-scum allowed himself to be unreadable for, what? 9 pages? Doesn't seem like much benefit to me.

And there were more players having doubts about his post restriction. TCS only said it clearly why it didn't work as Helen Keller. If others who were doubting the Post Restriction already would think that TCS has a point, then Whiskers could have been attacked by it.

So you think he stopped because he was being attacked and he was afraid of being caught?

[Nachomamma8]

Buh. This game needs an adrenaline injection or something. It's kinda hard to get any reads I feel great about when most everyone is standing around the water cooler filing their nails.

I think that everyone will be a little passive until we understand what the fuck is up with alignment-changing.

Although nacho and fourtrouble what are your reads on each other right now?

I'm reading FT as town for the same reasons as you do. I'm going to be a little patient on that because he usually towns harder than he has now, but I don't think he's been scummy at all.

[Nachomamma8]

That's ok, I'm not actually town.

What are you?

Leaning towards Empking at the moment, but it is rather close.

Why on earth is that?

[Nachomamma8]

Buh. This game needs an adrenaline injection or something. It's kinda hard to get any reads I feel great about when most everyone is standing around the water cooler filing their nails.

I think that everyone will be a little passive until we understand what the fuck is up with alignment-changing.

Boring.

Sorry!

Also, ive done a similar thing as town in voting for a player for being passive who I associate with aggressiveness. So, it might have been shortsighted and not the greatest vote, but it read more townish to me.

Ding ding ding.

The information I gain pertains to my role... so I'm not really interested in discussing the subject further.

So you think scum wants to put themselves out there like that on day 1, page 1? And you call my reasoning shallow.

The information that someone knows who you are pertains to your role... If you didn't want to discuss it, you wouldn't have to talk about it so much
And yeah, sure. You think that it would be impossible for scum to put themselves out there...?

did everyone think they were town until that day?

Yeah.

Frankly, I

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Tammy

Why?

[Nachomamma8]

Avering's looking better and I could see this coming from TCS.
Arc dropped though.

Nothing else is of interest, except
WHISKERS SHOULD FULL-CLAIM

Why?

No, I guess not; in this game who knows what anyone's motivations could be. So fine. What does it tell you then?

It tells me that Empking knows something about you and doesn't care if you know who he is or not.

Do you use that whole timing argument often, or is it just a scum tactic? Cause I'm not going to convince you to unvote me in any game ever if you actually think that's a scumtell.

This misreps the rest of the argument.

Are we dead set on lynching TCS? Every post Fuduzn makes, I want to lynch him. Actually,

Unvote
Vote: Fuduzn

Why don't you want to lynch TCS?

[Nachomamma8]

Also, at the number of alternate win conditions I'm hearing about in softclaims, this rule in particular makes me a bit nervous.

-Factional win conditions may potentially end the game.

Note Factional, not personal. Do you not have a personal win condition?

[Nachomamma8]

Could you give me a FuDuzn case?

[Nachomamma8]

Why can't you give us some sort of an idea of why you think Fuduzn is scum before you give a case?

[Nachomamma8]

Yes, I do. This seems to suggest that there may be a way for a faction to win before endgame, outside of a standard win condition, and it makes me a bit nervous. If there were just standard win conditions for factions, then this rules inclusion wouldn't have been necessary.

I have no idea what you're talking about, so I will instead smile and nod.

When I build a case, I'll know. And you'll know.

Why bother making cases when you can win with any faction?

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho, who should I be voting for?

TCS.

[Nachomamma8]

I wasn't aware my vote was TCS yet.

?

He's not voting TCS.

Why bother making cases when you can win with any faction?

Because it be

hooves

me not to be lynched.

You could also sheep me and lynch scum and I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be lynched.

[Nachomamma8]

I remain suspicious of Tammy, but I don't think she's worth a D1 lynch.

Why are you suspicious of Tammy?

[Nachomamma8]

I was torn between going back to FourTrouble, whose general approach to the game appears scummy, and Whiskers, but I have a sneaking suspicion that Whiskers is a Jester... I don't see any other motivation behind faking a post restriction, admitting it, and then claiming survivor day one.

I don't understand any of this. You can't find Whiskers's motivation for the way that he's been playing so far so you attribute it to Jestering? Could be that Whiskers wanted to do a post restriction gambit, didn't like it mid day, and went with a survivor claim because he would get away with it. It could be that he was trying a post restriction so he would not really have to do anything all game, then took it back because he was getting too much heat and real-claimed.

[Nachomamma8]

You were getting questioned.

[Nachomamma8]

Gut; I think she's trying to hard to look town.

How so?

Gambiting and then claiming a role that most people want to lynch day 1 in a Jebus game and you don't see a strong possibility that being lynched first or lynched at all is her primary or secondary win con?

Why do people want to lynch a survivor claim day one again?

[Nachomamma8]

Votecount 1.13

FuDuzn (3) - FourTrouble, Empking, Riningear
The Central Scrutinizer (3) - Nachomamma8, Arc, Tammy
Tammy (1) - The Avering
Riningear (1) - Serrapaladin
Arc (1) - FuDuzn
Whiskers (1) - PimHel
FourTrouble (1) - The Central Scrutinizer

Not Voting (1) - Whiskers

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

PimHel is V/LA until 5/20

---

Whiskers is playing horribly, yeah. I don't see why Zdenek and FourT are scummier than TCS, though. I don't even think I've seen a FourT case yet?

[Nachomamma8]

Because FourT disappeared when he started to get really scummy.

I didn't see him as scum before, so him disappearing wasn't really that much of an event.

[Nachomamma8]

Nachomamma8: Townie.

Why?

Her reactions are all very confrontational and sassy. In, like, the "woah calm the fuck down there" kind of way. It's as if she's just trying to make us all back down so we don't get on her bad side. (Which would be, if our suspicions are right, mafia or anti-town third-part

This is generally an issue of playstyle and not at all indicative of alignment.

I still would like to see an Arc lynch, but I don't think I will convince anyone else to join me.

Could you try a little harder?

My impression was that you were saying that you basically stick with one person until they're lynched, which was contra to my experience with you in leprechaun in which you sounded more engaged and didn't actually do that.

That shouldn't surprise you based on how strongly he pushed you in leprechaun mafia?

Whatever I'm done. Just town, look at my reads when I'm done. Particularly at Nacho who's lack of engagement is really suspect. And Empking who is literally trying to push to get rid of the vig. I mean seriously if anyone can't read through my posts and see that I'm being sincere about this whole thing then I don't know what to tell you. Good luck with your game of people not participating or trying to actually find scum.

Don't start with the AtE bullshit at this point in time, please.

[Nachomamma8]

Tammy: Please shoot me tonight. My alignment follows whoever tries to kill me during the night, and I would prefer being town over scum. Original strategy was to lurk like hell until my alignment was defined so I would get shot by vig over Mafia and wouldn't really make myself much of a threat to anyone else.

[Nachomamma8]

Oh and if it isn't clear. Empking just basically scum claimed.

I was probably right at the start that Empking and TCS did that thing as part of a partner dance.

Do you really think that Empking would decide that "hey, we should do this scum gambit where I look like a lyncher so you don't get lynched"?

With that said, Jebus said there's probably going to be an extension at this rate. He's gonna confirm later. So let's take our time hunting and try to re-eval--

Vote: Riningear

If we don't lynch Tammy, we should really leash her. The chances of her being SK are way too significant to ignore.

Not a surprise that this is coming out of your mouth at all and sounds more like you being afraid of a vig shot. Unless you have any valid reasons for Tammy being SK, of course?

What bothers me about this is that when I talked about how slow this game was moving and how passive everyone is, he said people would probably be that way until we were sure what was up with the possible alignment changes.

HINT HINT

Empking is scum claiming by using "barrage of untruths" in an attempt to use empty rhetoric to make me look bad. I haven't told any untruths at all. That is not trying to assess my motivations which means he's not actually scumhunting but is pretending to. He's not actually trying to figure this game out because he's not town.

That's not Empking-scum's style at all. He doesn't stick his neck out that far because his playstyle is a giant black hole of null for most people, and there's absolutely no reason for him NOT to hide behind something like this when he ends up getting scum.

I'm down to lynch Arc or Rinin. Taking pgs 15-19 in isolation, they stand out by far as the most scummy.

Rinin is an awesomely solid lynch.

[Nachomamma8]

Zdenek wasn't really that interesting to me when he was playing; I think that his followup on FuDuzn's game would be strange if he did it of his own fruition as scum, but then I noticed there was a long timestamp in between FuDuzn's #126 and Zdenek's #127, so that was sort of null. I really didn't like his vote on FuDuzn because it was a throwaway read and Zdenek tends to care pretty deeply about his scumreads and tunnels the shit out of them, but here the attacking lacked the passion of normal Zdenek. Riningear is much easier to peg thanks to inconsistencies in reads; particular, Arc being the "scummiest person in the game so far" but not really, Tammy being not scummy enough to vote but then suddenly deciding Tammy was scummy enough to vote as soon as someone calls her out for not having any suspects, then not wanting to go for Empking until other people were backing her up.

TCS is also a scum as shit read, and it frustrates me that no one is willing to touch him/Empking because of Empking having information in his role PM about his existence in the game. Yes, I'm sure TCS's role has something to do with Empking's. But if he wanted him lynched, I'm fairly confident that Empking wouldn't be dancing with Tammy to the extent he currently is, fairly confident he wouldn't not give a shit about what TCS is doing as shown by him joining FuDuzn before TCS and other things.

[Nachomamma8]

Again, hunting is messy as hell. I don't want to lynch Arc because I want to watch him a little longer. After all, there are multiple scum.

Scumhunting can be messy, but I can usually follow most people's thought processes when they do it. Can't follow yours.
Why do you want to watch Arc a little longer? Why are you more confident on Empking?

[Nachomamma8]

I'm all over the place, sorry. My town reads are mostly confident because of a lack of truly scum content, but when it comes to scummy reads it gets kind of on and off. Especially now that we have possible SKs and such.

What town reads are you sure about?

As the whole thing went back and forth between Emp and Tammy, he seemed like he was trying to keep attention away from his own alignment as opposed to hers. Could just be me though.

How?

[Nachomamma8]

If I'm targetted by an SK, I become aligned with that. If I'm lynched before I have an alignment, I lose.

[Nachomamma8]

I'm still down for a TCS lynch, especially since I believe you about your role and feel like I can trust your reads more now. I read through a town game of TCS' last night, and I'm not the best meta researcher person, but he just read differently than he does here.

What do you think of his push on Whiskers for being a Jester? Starting Jester paranoia and being happy with leaving someone alive who is scummy as fuck usually sets my scumdar off completely, but then #333 happened and I started doubting myself a little bit.

Nacho, I'll trust you a bit if you explain your claim a little more, If you are targeted by a player, you switch to their alignment? So, if Tammy shoots you, do you counter it and switch to her alignment, or do you die? Does it have to be a kill? seems like an interesting role, but I'd like for you not to die if we can help it.

I won't die if targetted by a kill; all I do is switch alignment. And yeah, it has to be a kill.

you just seem off, but not quite in a scummy way.

I still don't understand when Arc went from being incredibly scummy to just being "off".

No it doesn't. If this was a role-madness theme game, or even a theme-flavoured theme game then maybe, but it isn't. Its a b game and there's nothing in Nacho's role suggesting a vig.

It implies killers of multiple factions or my role is boring as shit and mostly useless. Meaning that Tammy is vig or SK, and there's no way in hell that I would've outed if I thought she was an SK.

[Nachomamma8]

I don't mind being targeted as much as being targeted without explanation. :/ Seriously, stop saying I'm scum without at least explaining why. I mean, the turnover will speak more than any defense I can give, but I'd at least like an opportunity to explain why you're wrong and why this is a shitty bandwagon.

You know what would help me think that you're town a little more?
Actually looking for scum instead of complaining of there not being a case on you.

[Nachomamma8]

The whole Tammy/Emp/TCS just seems so muddy right now I can't really make much sense of who is what. I prefer to not lynch in the dark(imo) between them and stick with what I think is a safer target in Rinin.

Why is Tammy/Empking muddy?

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho, does it list any specifications on the kill? Or does it just say that if you are targeted by a kill you change alignment?

If I'm targeted by a kill, I follow the alignment of my would-be killer.

The yelling an accusations back and forth just seems to being going in a circle and isn't really helping me figure either of them out at this point.

Though, I guess a lynch is one way of sorting things out in that situation, but I feel stronger about Rinin scum and as I said would rather go for what I believe is a better chance at hitting scum then going after two(three if you count TCS) who I don't believe to be scum.

Who do you think is the most likely to be scum out of the three people you named?

[Nachomamma8]

Unvote, Vote: Rin

I hate required unvotes.

[Nachomamma8]

I believe Rinin's personal wincon, if that means anything.

[Nachomamma8]

Rin: Any info on God?

None besides that he exists and that he just has to make it out alive for my wincon. That's all there is to it. I win or lose or get killed in the process due to the course of things.

So... are you just going to shut down completely now, or...?

So Rin is at -2.

I'd vote to lynch at deadline, probably.

My money is that at least one of these claims is completely bogus.

You still trying to lynch FT?
That's cool I guess.

No, we don't think you're scum...

THEN VOTE FOR ME AND LYNCH ME.

Fuck you.

Why aren't you voting for Rinin?

[Nachomamma8]

My rolename doesn't have anything to do with god.

[Nachomamma8]

Because don't feel I can put my vote on him without looking/being scummy, and because the sooner this Day ends, the sooner I get shot.

You're going to get shot unless you can find a way to actually contribute to town.
So what are your reads?

[Nachomamma8]

I don't follow? 333 was fuduzn saying that whiskers-jester wasn't a bad call.

The fact that someone agreed with moonlogic like that threw me off a bit; if he wasn't the only one thinking it, then it would mean that the jester observation was actually a sign of independent thought, and that would be terrifying.

What is your read on serrapaladin?

I like serra for town. His contributions have been pretty solid compared to everything else going around this game, and I thought the immediate question to the mod in #310 was pretty genuine.

[Nachomamma8]

Votecount 1.22

Riningear (5) - Serrapaladin, FuDuzn, Arc, Nachomamma8, The Avering
FuDuzn (2) - FourTrouble, Empking
Empking (1) - Riningear
The Central Scrutinizer (1) - Tammy
Whiskers (1) - PimHel
FourTrouble (1) - The Central Scrutinizer

Not Voting (1) - Whiskers

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

---

No, I'm going to get shot. There has been no stipulation, I've been given no outs. Since you don't control the bullet, and Tammy doesn't seem interested in fucking discussing anything other than how much she is town at the moment, I'm getting shot.

Your out is "be more town". You can accomplish this by scumhunting and showing willingness to help town even if you're going down. You're not doing that, and that's why you're getting shot.

[Nachomamma8]

Well, being at -5 isn't quite helping anymore, and I've been really busy lately, I apologize. I whipped out an old laptop of mine that's pretty shit-tier. I want Jebus to get on so I can do less God-hunting and more scumhunting.

I'm not God, or else I wouldn't be posting seriously at this point.

Also, FT, pull your goddamn vote unless you're going to stop being so sketchy and unresponsive as of late and explain why you specifically think I'm scummy. You're coming off as scummy more than just reserved now, and I might just change my mind again.

You're threatening your townread on him to make him post a case on you?

[Nachomamma8]

I'm Facebook official now!

[Nachomamma8]

"I'm not so sure you're trying to find out alignments. It seems more like you've got set alignments to begin with and are badgering people who step out of them." They say the things we hate about others are the things we hate about ourselves the most, no?

Saying that he's not trying to find out other people's alignments and not caring about people's roles is just a glorified "he's tunneling" accusation. Why do you think he would tunnel the hell out of Tammy as scum?

but I feel Empking was more driven to drag it out.

Okay, but why??

[Nachomamma8]

Unvote, Vote: TCS

I'm seeing some semblance of a thought process behind riningear's posting, going to look chill here for a little while.

[Nachomamma8]

So you are saying that scum can't appear to have a townie thought process? I don't get your reasoning here to take your vote off of her.

They can, but they usually don't.

[Nachomamma8]

Like, scum CAN do townie things, but they usually don't.

[Nachomamma8]

If they spend the whole game appearing to do townie things, they usually win.
It's when they fuck up when they get lynched.

I was seeing rinnin posting scumpost after scumpost after scumpost. Then, I saw him post something that looked vaguely town. So, I'm stepping back a little bit, seeing if this trend continues, not letting TCS lurk away Day 1.

[Nachomamma8]

So Rinin, in your eyes, has been scummy since she subbed in. Then she does something vaguely town, and that is enough to move your vote?

Sure. I'm not going to tunnel her to death when we still have plenty of time and the game is weird as fuck.

[Nachomamma8]

Full disclosure! It's as hard to sub in as town as scum, from what I've seen in poking through old games that friends referred me to. Because when you're subbing in, everything different about you is sketchy. The scum has an excuse to bandwagon you, and it's harder to defend, because you don't quite know why they did what they did, and you're paying. This is my second game, and my first subbing in, before the fact that this game is weird as fuck (p-edit: great minds think alike?) and hard to catch up to, and forget that my predecessor came off as sketchy as hell.

Replacing in for me is the easiest because no matter what you do, you're probably gonna do better than your predecessor.

[Nachomamma8]

I get burned by lightning or something like that if I do.

Or something like that?

[Nachomamma8]

Votecount 1.24

Riningear (5) - Serrapaladin, FuDuzn, Arc, The Avering, FourTrouble
The Central Scrutinizer (2) - Tammy, Nachomamma8
FourTrouble (2) - The Central Scrutinizer, Whiskers
FuDuzn (1) - Empking
Empking (1) - Riningear
Whiskers (1) - PimHel

Not Voting (0)

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

---

When anyone who makes a townpost gets a free pass, we are policy lynching. I wasn't aware that was the plan.

What don't you guys understand about "I like recent posting, I'm going to push another angle for a little while"?

@Nacho: Hey, remember when you were trying to negotiate with me over Tammy's shot? Yeah, I still don't see any confirmation from her that I can do anything to save myself.

I can't guarantee your survival, but I can do my best to advocate for it if you work with me today.

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: FourTrouble

Why FT?

[Nachomamma8]

But Rining is? What do you think about TCS?

[Nachomamma8]

I'm literally doing this for you and not me.

[Nachomamma8]

Okay, the votes for me are legitimately starting to look scummy/sketchy. I'm up for top lynch right now, it seems, and people are proving themselves to be much scummier, and we have six days real-time to get this settled. And now people are showing back up on each other's radars and it's getting crazy.

Thank Jebus for the extension.

What was your plan?

[Nachomamma8]

So explain to my why Whiskers doesn't want to die(either by lynch or vig)?

Anyone, please. Or is he normally this batshit crazy?

Because Whiskers claimed survivor-variant.

[Nachomamma8]

My primary win condition would let me win with any faction, if all goes well for me. It's not automatic, but I'd prefer to win this way.
My secondary win condition is the standard town win condition-- which suddenly makes me wonder if I show up as green or grey on cop investigations.
My tertiary win condition requires I have powers that I don't have, AKA, there may be an enabler-type role.

But I actually have no idea what the fuck those specifics are.

[Nachomamma8]

Gotta admit jester was my first thought when whiskers claimed to not be town.

Then I guess it's not such moonlogic after all.

Eh. I've been growing a bit suspicious. A lot of what he offers is sideline, and I see him around and posting elsewhere but not here. He sounds calm and reasonable which makes me wonder. I mean I like that he stood up for me with my claim but I also know that I tend to just like people who do that and can put them in my blind spot.

I'll watch him. I haven't seen a post from him in a while, that's for sure.

I like lynching FT and Tammy shooting Whiskers (assuming Tammy is in accord with that).

I would rather you be shot, considering Whiskers has been more useful than you lately and I don't buy your "I'm just trying to switch up my playstyle" excuse at all.

[Nachomamma8]

Lynching you is good then?

[Nachomamma8]

Votecount 1.25

Riningear (5) - Serrapaladin, FuDuzn, Arc, The Avering, FourTrouble
The Central Scrutinizer (2) - Tammy, Nachomamma8
FourTrouble (2) - The Central Scrutinizer, Whiskers
FuDuzn (2) - Empking, Riningear
Whiskers (1) - PimHel

Not Voting (0)

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

---

I'm hoping if I say it three times, you'll disappear.
TCS
TCS
TCS

[Nachomamma8]

Tammy, as for Arc/Nacho:
Sure, they'll not make it to endgame... maybe... if they're both town.
There's nothing that says Nacho's role works how he says it does.
There's nothing that says Arc's role works how he says it does-- although, maybe Nacho can confirm that.
There's nothing to say that scum won't leave them both alive because there are better kills, or because they don't want any confirmed townies, or because they want town to lynch them because "oh man, they really DID make it to endgame!"

I had a townread on Arc too. And Nacho has become a player since he outted his role, and got townshot, and his claim makes a lot of sense from that angle.
But yes, I still think you're putting a lot of faith into something that is fucking dangerous. Putting trust in players whose alignments you don't know

, and claiming that their powers work the way they say they do (in a bastard mod game, no less!)-- you look like you're trying to treat them as confirmed town, or trying to get

us to treat them as confirmed town. That's why I "made fun of you."

Tammy, if you shoot this, I will cry.
Whiskers is not scum and if he's telling the truth, he can live longer than a lot of the people chilling in the thread right now.

[Nachomamma8]

I read through FT's ISO again and he's been very sketchy. There's been more than enough time to catch up, so unless FT has a reason for not saying enough productive things lately, I think it's more of a matter of "I don't want to confront you guys, deadline's coming up anyway."

Can you give me more reasoning than that?
Because I know for a fact that FT isn't so terrified to confront people as scum, meaning this is useless.

[Nachomamma8]

What do you mean by "confront"?

Exactly. He's NOT afraid to confront things as scum, meaning that he's probably just being lazy as hell.

[Nachomamma8]

Metagaming as in metagaming the mod. I'm pretty sure that Jebus didn't literally change everyone's meta with his magic powers.

[Nachomamma8]

We have a goddamn Philosopher and God, possibly a Jester, and literally everyone has roles, perhaps including the mafia players.

Who claimed to be a Philosopher?

Arc.

[Nachomamma8]

Unless you're willing legitimately give me reasons why, in this situation, we should stick to normal meta play, I'm going to call bullshit.

I have no idea what this means.

[Nachomamma8]

Not everyone is going to be playing normally.

This is a bastard game. I was warned about the abnormal gameplay, as a new player, when I replaced in.

I have every right to believe that FT is suspicious based on his behavior in this game alone.

Call me paranoid, but I'd rather be paranoid than passive.

Ok, everyone won't play normally.
But why would FT as scum suddenly be afraid of you and unable to do normal things he normally does as scum?

[Nachomamma8]

What's TCS's justification for voting FT?

[Nachomamma8]

Interesting. Arc might be God. I'm a Philosophy Major, which explains why I have information about God.

Arc is conf not God because he shot me with a God is dead daykill and turned me town.

[Nachomamma8]

Interesting. Arc might be God. I'm a Philosophy Major, which explains why I have information about God.

Arc is conf not God because he shot me with a God is dead daykill and turned me town.

GOD IS DEAD! GOD IS DEAD! GOD IS DEAD!

...I'm really sorry, I couldn't resist.

Please vote TCS.

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: The Central Scrutinzer

No one mentioned it because it's pretty obvious and completely useless.

[Nachomamma8]

I'm interested in helping FT out his information a little better but I'm not sure if Jebus wants us to or not so that's sort of... strange.

[Nachomamma8]

FT, ask Jebus if the intent of your role was to have you act on your information or communicate it to everyone else. I have an idea I want to try but I don't want it to be a loophole, I just want it to be creative.

[Nachomamma8]

I'd really like there to be a massclaim. A mass-full claim. Characters, roles, winconditions. Or maybe just Characters, Alignments, and Win Conditions.
Because this way we can figure out how everybody is supposed to interact with each other without guessing, and maybe we can even work out a way to fulfill some extra wincons.

This is not a good idea in rolemadness games; scum probably have some ridiculous abilities (like resetting the votecount), so massclaiming will lead to scum fucking us up. We also don't know if Jebus gave scum fakeclaims or not, but he probably did.

[Nachomamma8]

ll

[Nachomamma8]

My primary win condition (winning if all members of one faction are killed before any members of any other fction) is now explicitly anti-town. I will not be pursuing it.

It's now impossible, isn't it?

Also, why were you interested in a massclaim earlier?

[Nachomamma8]

None of my winconditions are currently completeable, except for one which is explicityly anti-town.

So self-aligned doesn't count as a faction, then?

I just want to survive long enough to have a shot at my third wincon, but that really depends on if the Town minds having a layabout living in their house.
I am a schizophrenic townie, I get powers at the start of each Day, maybe at random? My third wincon in based on that. Today I have a modified roleblocking power, the use of which I have detailed (or tried to) above.

Then why don't you mind if your powers are leashed?

[Nachomamma8]

Thank you!

[Nachomamma8]

V/LA until Monday

I noticed the real problem with Whisker's wincon.

[Nachomamma8]

I didn't think so, but I asked (just checked my PMs), and it does.

you thought that all you had to do was kill all of any faction and that faction DIDN'T include third parties?
and you kept that assumption without clarifying anything with the mod?

Are you sure this is empking town? I don't have much experience with empking but I've never pegged him as delusional theory-crafting paranoid-townie before.

His pushing on you today is far beyond the depths of townthought. This still doesn't feel like scum; it just seems like he wants you dead for a personal wincondition reason.

whoever is town can actually look for scum but it's almost definitely not going to happen while I'm alive. And I don't mind being the lynch if it will make people focus because I still win with the damn town.

Tammy? If you leave me alone, I'm going to kill you.

[Nachomamma8]

I don't understand the question.

If your powers help you towards your personal win condition, why don't you mind them being leashed? It makes more sense to me that you would use your powers doing whatever the fuck as opposed to telling townies to direct you.
Make sense?

[Nachomamma8]

So if town is lynched Day 1, then ALL the town would have to be killed, before any mafia, werewolves, cultists, or survivors, for me to win by that condition. Int he same way, if all the mafia were killed before any townies, werewolves, cultists, or survivors were, I would win by that primary condition.

If third party was lynched first, would the rule still apply?
last question, I promise.

[Nachomamma8]

My guess is that there was likely one god that was town, which we offed, and one that is in control of the mafia, and the kill would be linked to him.

It seems to me like we have something like a scumteam with a god controlling, a townteam with a god controlling, and modified survivor team that ends up swinging things in favor to either way. It's more politics than mafia, but that seems like something with a Jebus flavor.

The reason I think Rin's claim is fake was mentioned back on day one, When I reread my claim, it didn't say "You win if your shot hits God", it was if your shot hit

A

God. FT mentioned something similar when he was hinting that he knew info about god's existence, also, with the odd name of his character, I can believe that my suspicions are true and there is more than one god in this game.

Also, I sent Jebus a cheeky response when I got my Role Pm saying that all I would have to do is to claim that he was dead to win, but I honestly don't think he is the type of moderator that would self insert himself into the game. So I didn't try it, I assume it would have gotten me modkilled or something for some reason.

After asking repetitively in different ways for a few weeks, Jebus just told me he's not self-inserting. :U

Also I guess it's just a case of bad wording in both of our PMs? I dunno if there's another God. There could be, but my PM implies a single God so...

ヽ（・＿・；)ノ

Is your personal wingoal still going?

[Nachomamma8]

What info did you get last night, Avering?

[Nachomamma8]

I want Empking to talk more.

[Nachomamma8]

Whiskers said that he knew Hitler's alignment.

[Nachomamma8]

What happened to your Tammy-scum fire?

[Nachomamma8]

Because if Hitler knows that if Whiskers knows his alignment and that alignment is scum, he won't claim.

[Nachomamma8]

Unless Avering knows Tammy is Hitler? And also has that rolename?

where the fuck did Tammy even come from

[Nachomamma8]

Unless Avering knows Tammy is Hitler. Why does it matter if it's Tammy as opposed to Serra?

[Nachomamma8]

If Avering knew that Tammy was Hitler, then I think that he wouldn't be going about this in the way that he has been.
Do you disagree?

[Nachomamma8]

It would almost seem logical that Hitler is scum.

But that's way too easy.

Also Tammy, I was waiting for you to actually say the words "Patrick Bateman" because of all the American Psycho references you've been dropping.

...she did...

[Nachomamma8]

I'm Patrick Bateman. (misaligned anyone? Got a kick out of finding out I was a vig and not a serial killer). The two people mentioned in my personal win condition are Paul Allen and a hooker. But, I kinda don't think either of them are in the game anyway, but it's pretty humorous regardless.

[Nachomamma8]

I totally believe that his alignment shifted, but I'm not sure what purpose that serves for him or us. Maybe not a good one, but he's certainly not scum the way he's acting. （・＿・；)

It doesn't seem that way to me.

I still say that lynching Whiskers is the smart move since he admitted he is not town and we can't trust to keep him alive to screw us over, especially in a game where who knows what the fuck is going on alignment wise.

There are probably going to be a lot of not-towns running around in this game, but I'm happier hitting scum.

Ah, I see where you're going wrong.the people hat have confirmation bias are the ones that have been convinced that she's town after her half-hearted AtE. Who do you think is less willing to admit they're wrong? Somebody who misread a town player as scum, as one is liable to do every game when town, or people who were taken it like gullible fools by a silly put-on tantrum? Remember that before the tantrum Tammy was a top suspect; I don't need to convince the town that I right, I need to convince the town that its not embarrassing to admit they were right before Tammy dropped her bouncing AtE bombs.

The convincing bit to me was the vigilante claim that means that she's probably not scum unless she's going for a really, really stupid claim.

post_id=5033063 time=1371242542 user_id=10128 post_num=980]First and most important question: why haven't we lynched Whiskers yet?

Because he's probably not scum?

Okay so my primary wincon is to KILL HITLER (I can achieve this whether I am Town or Survivor). I can either do this via SHOOTING or HAMMERING him. I namecop'd Whiskers (he is Hitler) and then tried to use my single daykill on him. It was redirected back onto me, but apparently I can't kill myself, so instead I've lost my vote for the day.

I tried to win this way because I am scared on becoming a survivor and being killed.

PLEASE. Do not lynch or kill Whiskers or me. Allow him to survive to tomorrow, and allow me to hammer him.
I beg of you. I beg of you, naked and grasping at your sympathy.

I will win and leave the game, and not risk dying to survivor status
Please~

Why didn't you claim this before?

Speaking of Nacho? Where the hell are you Nacho? You've been around and ignored this game for two days. I'm starting to worry about you!

Tammy.
This game is getting boring

Ah, I've heard otherwise from others?

Who the hell told you this?

[Nachomamma8]

Votecount 2.9

Empking (3) - Riningear, Tammy, Whiskers
Riningear (1) - Arc
Tammy (1) - Empking
The Avering (1) - hp [leaves]

Not Voting (4) - Nachomamma8, Serrapaladin, The Avering, FuDuzn

With 10 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

---

And I'm not stupid. You don't know by play I'm town?

I do, but your claim should sell it for everyone else.

Getting? I'm waiting for you to do something though. Take this game by storm, get that surge you get sometimes and make a big play. But I'm standing in the rain on the wrong corner, huh?

Help me. I'm convinced at this point that Empking is third party, Avering is third party, and Whiskers is third party.
Riningear is probably town, you're town, Arc's town.
That leaves serra, hp leaves, FuDuzn. None of those look even moderately close to the scum that Empking/Avering are acting like right now, and out of all of them I suspect FuDuzn and hp leaves most but that's because they've mostly been lurking and off the radar.

Nacho: How often do scum claim D1, without a role-assisted gambit, and survive to endgame?

It's not all that uncommon. What's rare is scum claiming VIGILANTE and using their only kill in order to shoot people who are suspicious instead of people who are actually threats to them.

if Avering does leave afterwards then it's taking out two potential threats for the price of one.

And if he doesn't, then...

to believe that there even was a daykill.

There probably was one, yeah.

post_id=5037162 time=1371371737 user_id=10128 post_num=1018]Whiskers, just vote the avering. He'll die if he's indeed lying.

If someone else lost their vote, they can counterclaim him and we can kill Avering. Otherwise he's probably telling the truth.

[Nachomamma8]

FourTrouble (5) - Empking, The Central Scrutinizer, The Avering, Riningear, PimHel
The Central Scrutinizer (5) - Tammy, Nachomamma8, FourTrouble, Arc, FuDuzn

[Nachomamma8]

Both wagons gained more steam than they deserved, but they were still the most commonly suspected people at the time.

[Nachomamma8]

TCs may have been one of the most suspected person at the time, but it is far from likely that that would make it easier to lynch him after a Night to collect your thoughts. If he was onto her and some other members of her team, or if they thought he had a good PR themn I don't think 'was a last minute counterwagon' counts as a convincing reason to avoid killing him.

No offense to TCS, but he was playing like shit if he was town and I seriously, seriously doubt that Tammy would be afraid of him over me, you, serra, Arc...

[Nachomamma8]

I don't think anybody's got great day play this game. If they thought they could take away the best night-threat then that's sensible. If they thought TCS was a night-kill frit SK then that's make a sensible kill for the scum team.

No one's gotten great day play because scum hasn't been lynched yet.
But there are still people who make greater threats than others.

[Nachomamma8]

OK. "Why is she still alive?" is a stupid argument on Day 2 though.

[Nachomamma8]

I have no reason to not play as town and hunt for scum given my wincons.

Your hope is finding a third party/mafia God. Meaning that every time you lynch non-town, you're potentially killing a god you're supposed to protect. That's a pretty good reason to not play for town.

[Nachomamma8]

For all we know,

all

of any potential "god"-roles are town.

Like, we have literally no information besides FT's flip. I'm fine with you guys lynching him for being scummy-- that's perfectly all right. But it makes me really uncomfortable to see you pushing on him based on

pure speculation

. Not to chainsaw defend, but attacking someone using

pure speculation

makes me wonder if Arc, Nacho, aren't scum.

>.>
Whiskers.
Am I calling Riningear scum?

I didn't know how to word it, thank you Whiskers.

You didn't know how to word "maybe there is another town god"?

[Nachomamma8]

Yeah, it was Arc.

hey i'm asking you questions and stuff

[Nachomamma8]

Should get to this tomorrow morning, and I'll particularly look at how Avering's stuff lines up, but I'm still not convinced he's telling the truth about his wincon. The way his action resolved just seems to different from Arc's.

mod scene, kill fails, jebus makes fun of them
that seems like a very solid similarity

[Nachomamma8]

TAMMY HELP ME SORT OUT THESE OTHER PEOPLE PLEASE

[Nachomamma8]

Ok fuck all this.
VOTE: Whiskers

What is this?

[Nachomamma8]

Well I agree with this and Empking is all to gleeful to try to create a distraction that people can lurk and hide behind.

It feels more like he's attacking you because he doesn't have a choice to do anything else. Which is weird because every other character who is a lyncher to someone else (you, Arc, Avering) has a kill for their target and Empking apparently doesn't. That's the thing that gives me pause and I have no idea why it does.

[Nachomamma8]

Tammy has had much more posts about me than I've heard about me.

You've only have posts about Tammy. That's all you've ever done since she's claimed vig.

I'm not trying to convince you that Tammy is scum. I'm trying to convince you to look at Tammy with an open mind. At which point you'll convince yourself of Tammy's scumitude.

I haven't seen a decent argument for what's convinced you thoroughly about Tammy this entire game. What do you think about everyone else?

Horrendous thought, are we sure there is actually even a scum faction, and it isn't just a bunch of town and third-party, all struggling to complete a variety of wincons? >_>

I sort of doubt that. It would be a lot easier for certain people (say, you) to fulfill their winconditions if that was the case. I think the majority of personal win conditions are trolls, honestly

Nacho questioned my vote, I just don't trust Whiskers not to fuck everyone over. The fact that he was open to being voted earlier is telling imo, he is trying to call our bluff.

You don't trust Whiskers not to fuck everyone over, but you trust everyone else? Why?

How likely do you think it is that Bear Grilles was randomly targeted by the Hypothermia demon?

Not that likely.
I do find it likely that maybe scum's kill was blocked last night and maybe scum is witholding their kill and maybe there aren't even a real scumteam. Who knows?

Nacho - I'm around tonight if you are.

I'm going to be a little busier than I expected until Sunday because apparently we never have time for mafia on the same days. I'm only going to post to keep up with the thread, likely won't have much more time than that.

[Nachomamma8]

AAARRRGH
Why do you feel you need to be on the forum at the same time? I want one of you to answer this question, because the only time I've ever needed someone on the forum at the same time as me, is when I was scum, and I needed my scumpartner online so we could quickhammer and win the game.

So, what the hell is going on here? Because

no other player

needs to be online at the same time as anyone else. That's the whole point of forum-mafia.

Why Are You Coordinating A Time?

Because we're trying to coordinate a scum quickhammer in thread. Why else do you think two people would want to talk about the game in real time?

[Nachomamma8]

hp, do you have anyone you think is mafia, or are you just trying to sort through all of the third party claims first?

[Nachomamma8]

post_id=5051637 time=1371851905 user_id=10128 post_num=1129]

hp, do you have anyone you think is mafia, or are you just trying to sort through all of the third party claims first?

I don't even believe that there is a "regular" mafia in this game especially with the overload of "first and second party" survivors. Even if there is, their second win conditions would complicate things even more.

OK.

You're being unfair there. Whiskers know why Tammy is 'trying' to coordinate a time; to avoid giving anything for as long as possible.

It wasn't an attack on Tammy. It was an attack on both of us for ridiculous reasons. Whiskers can speak for himself if that wasn't the case.

[Nachomamma8]

;-;

[Nachomamma8]

I CAN LITERALLY THINK OF NO OTHER POSSIBLE REASON. YOU HAVEN'T GIVEN ONE. TAMMY HASN'T GIVEN ONE. IS THERE

ANYLOHASLKGHASDL?KGSrhbylskrjeiohrwfxcfdvb ,.


fuck it, I quit. Fuck you. Fuck all of you, can't be bothered to play the fucking game. Go die.

This seems like a hell of an overreaction to a little sarcasm. I prefer instant feedback on reads when I can get it; conversational mafia in forum games also has an added benefit of getting people to do guided readings of things that particularly pinged to you and having people give you guided readings in certain things and the off the cuff responses make things a little harder to fake. Although I seriously, seriously wonder who you think we were trying to quickhammer and why we would decide to quickhammer after D2 and why we would plan it in thread as opposed to that magical scum QT. You just finished a scum game with me and you know I don't do ridiculous shit like that.

[Nachomamma8]

No Jew.
But I do think that assuming rolenames match up with actual roles is a dangerous, dangerous path.

[Nachomamma8]

Would really like to hear thoughts from Serra, hpleaves and fuduzn.

and riningear

Hell, I would honestly just love to hear people explain why they aren't lynching Empking as fast as they can right now.

[Nachomamma8]

I kind of agree with you Nacho, we all seem fixated on our own personal win cons and really need to focus in on a lynch. I am willing to move to Empking.

I love it. 'we all seem fixated on our own personal win cons so lets lynch the player scumhunting'.

Funny, I read that completely differently.

[Nachomamma8]

you're probably being replaced for requesting replacement

[Nachomamma8]

[Nachomamma8]

i was a godfather who needed serra/hp dead to win
i was rooting for tammy to shoot them