[Mini 1447] Misaligned Malignant Multi-verse Mafia (abandon)

[Tammy]

Sup y'all. I'll get to this today at some point.

[Tammy]

Buh. This game needs an adrenaline injection or something. It's kinda hard to get any reads I feel great about when most everyone is standing around the water cooler filing their nails.

The empking/TCS thing is twitch inducing though I *feel* like empking might be town. Maybe it's the conviction that he's obvtown because he was invested early on. I don't agree with that, but meh whatever.

@ TCS

Why did you out that you were grills immediately? You know you're playing in a possibly bastard game, one that has personal win conditions in addition to the standard win condition, and the first mention of your role name causes you to out that it's you?

Also, were you seriously satisfied with empking's answer that he wasn't a lyncher? Do you typically just believe whatever you're told in mafia? No doubts whatsoever?

Nah, I'll stick with the dude who voted third and then hard defended a new player.

You're referring to four trouble right? He was actually the fourth vote on nacho, but whatever. How is voting for the first rvs wagon a scum tell? Also, is this really what you're calling "hard defending"? Because this is the only instance of four trouble talking about arc:

Arc obviously has different way of playing but he's trying to figure things out, seems like town.

He also called empking definitely town, who incidentally was the third vote on nacho, is he hard defending him too?

------------------

@ arc

what did you mean by this?

PimHel kinda came off as a bit scummy for trying to read into this really quicky, its pretty standard RVS. Though trying to kill RVS with fire seems Pro Town. Eh, nothing yet.

Are you simultaneously calling pimhel scummy and protown for trying to get early reads?

I'm not really sure what to make of arc. There's a bit of over explaining in a weird way that comes across as overly self conscious, which I normally associate with scum, but he's new so that can explain it. Also, I liked him explaining about The possible flavor justification of the post restriction in Post 120. I think that's more likely to come from town as he could have easily expressed doubt and thrown some easy suspicion on whiskers but didn't even as he wasn't sure if he believed it was a post restriction. And his attempt to figure out empking reads townish.

------------------

I have working leaning town reads on whiskers, four trouble, and nacho. I found the posting in pictures thing amusing. No it doesn't make him town, but he feels somewhat town. Four trouble reads somewhat town due to a lack of orchestration in his posts. His going after whiskers for being passive and feeling off and trying to make things fit read townish. I think I'll be able to read nacho better with time, but nothin feels off right now.

Although

nacho and fourtrouble

what are your reads on each other right now?

empking

why did you want nachos opinion on whether or not you were being defensive in Post 79?

I'm interested in seeing where this zdenek/fuduzn thing is going and think I'll be able to get a better read on zdenek from it, but I'm not liking fuduzn much.

VOTE: the central scrutinzer

I'd also happily vote avering, And possibly fuduzn

Strongest town read is pimhel.

[Tammy]

See in Post 73 that you quoted, I wasn't trying to defend myself or use self meta. People were asking why I wasn't answering Arc's questioning(what I did, and still, think was deflection), so I was explaining why.

If anything, it helps to explain my thought process into why I do think Arc is scum and why I continue to be on him.

This is weak and pretty lame. Arc asked you some pretty standard questions. Why did you vote TCS in the first place? Arc is right, you didn't comment on it. What are your actual reads?

Going oh see I just pick a scum read and stick with that and don't really bother with looking for other scum until one is caught is wtf? You can't be serious about that. I don't remember you being so one note in leprechaun mafia.

[Tammy]

Buh. This game needs an adrenaline injection or something. It's kinda hard to get any reads I feel great about when most everyone is standing around the water cooler filing their nails.

I think that everyone will be a little passive until we understand what the fuck is up with alignment-changing.

Boring.

[Tammy]

Buh. This game needs an adrenaline injection or something. It's kinda hard to get any reads I feel great about when most everyone is standing around the water cooler filing their nails.

The empking/TCS thing is twitch inducing though I *feel* like empking might be town. Maybe it's the conviction that he's obvtown because he was invested early on. I don't agree with that, but meh whatever.

@ TCS

Why did you out that you were grills immediately? You know you're playing in a possibly bastard game, one that has personal win conditions in addition to the standard win condition, and the first mention of your role name causes you to out that it's you?

Honestly, because the nature of my role makes me not really care TOO too much about my flavor being outed, and second, because I thought it was odd that EmpKing would misspell the name Bear Grylls just like my Role PM did. I gained at least some information by responding to this.

What information did you gain? The nature of my role would make me not care about my flavor being outed either in the strictest sense. My issue with it is that you know that there are personal win conditions in addition to the primary ones, that there's a very strong likelihood of there being multiple threats to town, and someone misspells your role name just like its misspelled in your role pm and without hesitation you play along. Doesn't make sense to me, not if you're town. It does make sense to me if your scum though, as you can plant that lyncher seed and make people wary of lynching you.

Also, were you seriously satisfied with empking's answer that he wasn't a lyncher? Do you typically just believe whatever you're told in mafia? No doubts whatsoever?

Well, no, obviously not.

So, what are you doing to try to figure out his alignment then?

Nah, I'll stick with the dude who voted third and then hard defended a new player.

You're referring to four trouble right? He was actually the fourth vote on nacho, but whatever. How is voting for the first rvs wagon a scum tell? Also, is this really what you're calling "hard defending"? Because this is the only instance of four trouble talking about arc:

Arc obviously has different way of playing but he's trying to figure things out, seems like town.

He also called empking definitely town, who incidentally was the third vote on nacho, is he hard defending him too?

Well, calling lots of players "definitely town" is often a red flag, so it does reinforce my argument that FourTrouble is scum.

I think early mid-wagon votes are often good places for scum; and I think scum buddying new players is a good thing for scum to do.

Are these new concepts?

Okay, we need to change your name to The Central Hyperbole. He called one player "definitely town" not lots. I also hardly call saying that someone is playing differently but seems like town "buddying". Your mid-wagon wiki tell is lame. It's a crap shoot that hits town as often as scum.

Your reasoning is shallow.

Why were you afraid of putting nacho at l-2 on page one? Because i find that more suspect than someone putting fourth vote on an rvs wagon. It reads self conscious, coupled as it was with an over justification. And your first post is more what I read as buddying than four trouble saying a new player seems like town.

[Tammy]

That's ok, I'm not actually town.

[Tammy]

Regardless, FT's vote was bad, so I have no idea why Tammy and Nacho read him town.

I followed f11 where nacho and ft were partners, and ft is capable of putting forth reasoning and effort as scum, and I get the sense that he would as scum. His vote on whiskers may not have been great but it felt unpremeditated whereas as scum there's a sense of orchestration in his posts or at least there was in the game I followed. Also, ive done a similar thing as town in voting for a player for being passive who I associate with aggressiveness. So, it might have been shortsighted and not the greatest vote, but it read more townish to me.

[Tammy]

Gut mostly. TCS looks more like scum of the pair, but Empking feels more like scum. Honestly I could vote either way at the moment.

Translation: "plz someone build a wagon for one of these guys so I can vote without responsibility; I'm not choosy which."

...you do realize that he was already voting empking at the time, right?

[Tammy]

There will be no wagon on Emp or TCS today anyway.

Who are your top two scum reads with reasoning? Please and thank you.


----------------

Nacho - in that normal game that you talked about where the neighbors were told they were mafia on day three, did everyone think they were town until that day?

[Tammy]

Buh. This game needs an adrenaline injection or something. It's kinda hard to get any reads I feel great about when most everyone is standing around the water cooler filing their nails.

The empking/TCS thing is twitch inducing though I *feel* like empking might be town. Maybe it's the conviction that he's obvtown because he was invested early on. I don't agree with that, but meh whatever.

@ TCS

Why did you out that you were grills immediately? You know you're playing in a possibly bastard game, one that has personal win conditions in addition to the standard win condition, and the first mention of your role name causes you to out that it's you?

Honestly, because the nature of my role makes me not really care TOO too much about my flavor being outed, and second, because I thought it was odd that EmpKing would misspell the name Bear Grylls just like my Role PM did. I gained at least some information by responding to this.

What information did you gain? The nature of my role would make me not care about my flavor being outed either in the strictest sense. My issue with it is that you know that there are personal win conditions in addition to the primary ones, that there's a very strong likelihood of there being multiple threats to town, and someone misspells your role name just like its misspelled in your role pm and without hesitation you play along. Doesn't make sense to me, not if you're town. It does make sense to me if your scum though, as you can plant that lyncher seed and make people wary of lynching you.

The information I gain pertains to my role... so I'm not really interested in discussing the subject further.

So you think scum wants to put themselves out there like that on day 1, page 1? And you call my reasoning shallow.

Why wouldn't they? People saying scum wouldn't do what scum actually do has been the reason for several scum wins in my experience. I don't hold to that.

Welcome to day 1 mafia.

There's probably a reason it's on the wiki? Works better than 50% in my experience.

What scum tells do you want me to use this early? Feh.

I want to see you scumhunting. Not distorting what people are saying. Not exaggerating what people are saying, not defaulting to a lame wiki tell that's a crap shoot. Something more.

Your reasoning is shallow.

Why were you afraid of putting nacho at l-2 on page one? Because i find that more suspect than someone putting fourth vote on an rvs wagon. It reads self conscious, coupled as it was with an over justification. And your first post is more what I read as buddying than four trouble saying a new player seems like town.

You caught me. Take me away. I'm a bulletproof miller vig, and Nacho is my mason partner.

[/quote]

This kind of cutesy cheeky response doesn't make you look town.

[Tammy]

Votecount 1.9

FuDuzn (3) - FourTrouble, Empking, Zdenek
The Central Scrutinizer (3) - Nachomamma8, Arc, Whiskers
Tammy (2) - The Avering, The Central Scrutinizer
Zdenek (1) - Serrapaladin
Arc (1) - FuDuzn
Nachomamma8 (1) - Tammy
Whiskers (1) - PimHel

Not Voting (0)

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

FourTrouble will be replaced if he does not post in the next 24 hours.

---

That's ok, I'm not actually town.

Oh lol

Unvote; Vote: Tammy

I can change my alignment to Survivor. I suspect scum don't have that luxury since balance et al. So Tammy being all suspicious of this is a ping. It's enough.

This has got to be the weirdest reason I have ever been voted. Like I want to tell you to put down the crack pipe, but I'm too dumbfounded to actually think that. Did you get mad that I asked for your top two scum reads with reasoning and decide to stretch for a marathon or something? Someone says "I'm not town" which leaves me with wonder and you take that for a scum tell? Uh no. Sorry. Try again. When my role suggests there are threats to the town (plural), I expect there to be more than one. I've made that obvious. Someone says theyre not town. I'm gonna think that's not mafia, so it's something else. Don't have a clue what it could be, but yeah I wonder.

But you're right, I can't change my alignment myself and I didnt have any reason to think that people could change their alignments themselves.

[Tammy]

I believe Avering believes what he's saying; so he's town. He's also wildly wrong; Tammy might be scum, I've no reason to think she isn't, but not for that.

I'm quite obviously town.

[Tammy]

Frankly, I

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Tammy

OMGUS does not become you.

Do you make a habit of voting the person who is trying to drive the game forward and Scumhunt on a regular basis? Or are you just MAD.

[Tammy]

BTW Tammy, I'm not sure if you noticed earlier, but unvotes are required in this game, so whether it is intentional or not, you are currently sitting on nacho.

Oh I remember reading that.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: the central scrutinizer

[Tammy]

Avering's looking better and I could see this coming from TCS.
Arc dropped though.

Nothing else is of interest, except
WHISKERS SHOULD FULL-CLAIM

No. Nobody should full claim.

[Tammy]

Frankly, I

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Tammy

OMGUS does not become you.

Do you make a habit of voting the person who is trying to drive the game forward and Scumhunt on a regular basis? Or are you just MAD.

I have this crazy theory that mafia is basically just a bunch of people playing pin the tail on the donkey, and that "scumhunting" per se doesn't really matter. The trick is just to find out who's full of shit, and I feel like your scumhunting is full of shit right now.

Maybe that will change later, but I can't really promise what you will do will make me do.

So, you responded to this post right after I posted this and responded to something else later. Did it really take you nearly 24 hours to come up with this lame ass response? Because if you truly thought I was full of shit, this should have been your response yesterday.

And here's what you get to do now. Why am I full of shit? I've told you why you're full of shit, so now you get to say something that has meaning because mudslinging without anything behind it is shallower than your wiki tell.

My scumhunting isn't even close to being full of shit. It probably matters more to me than anyone else that my scum reads are right this game, and I'm using what little there is here to try to figure you people out. Maybe it's true as nacho said that everyone is being passive until they figure out what's going on with the alignment changes, but I think that's lame and it's lame to let people get away with that.

So, show me your suspicions are genuine and not just made up of you being pouty because I think you're scum.

[Tammy]

Empking - do you still think the central scrutinizer is a survivor after we've now had two survivor types admit to being survivor types?

Pimhel - why did you want whiskers to full claim but not avering?

[Tammy]

1. Whiskers is scummy, while I have a slight town read on the Avering
2. Avering has said that he can change into a Survivor, while we don't know how it works for Whiskers.
3. I don't trust any role that can win with scum.

Why shouldn't he full-claim?

I agree that avering looks townish now based on his reasoning for voting me, but I'm still concerned that he can change his role to win with scum.

I don't think anyone should full claim. Part of this is part of why I'm suspect about TCS' outing his character without hesitation. I have a personal win condition that involves two characters that could be in this game. (I kinda doubt they are in the game though). Anyway I have no idea if my personal win condition is at odds with my town win condition or what fulfilling it would do to my town win condition, so I'm pretty much trying to ignore it but I don't want to know people's characters because I'd rather not have it influence my actions.

Mainly though, I seriously doubt I'm the only one with a personal win condition that specifies another character, so I think it's just safer if no one full claims.

[Tammy]

1. Whiskers is scummy, while I have a slight town read on the Avering
2. Avering has said that he can change into a Survivor, while we don't know how it works for Whiskers.
3. I don't trust any role that can win with scum.

Why shouldn't he full-claim?

I agree that avering looks townish now based on his reasoning for voting me, but I'm still concerned that he can change his role to win with scum.

I don't think anyone should full claim. Part of this is part of why I'm suspect about TCS' outing his character without hesitation. I have a personal win condition that involves two characters that could be in this game. (I kinda doubt they are in the game though). Anyway I have no idea if my personal win condition is at odds with my town win condition or what fulfilling it would do to my town win condition, so I'm pretty much trying to ignore it but I don't want to know people's characters because I'd rather not have it influence my actions.

Mainly though, I seriously doubt I'm the only one with a personal win condition that specifies another character, so I think it's just safer if no one full claims.

To me this is a question you could easily ask the mod about, I think this soft claim is worse then Whiskers. And if your personal wincon is at odds with the towns wincon then you are just as bad as Whiskers, if not worse.

So, you've been keeping up with the game, and this is what you choose to respond to?

This is not a vanilla game. Everyone has a role, or something. There are personal win conditions in the op. Do you actually think the mod would answer that question and truthfully? This is not your first game fuduzn, don't act like it.

I never said my personal win condition was at odds with my town win con, because I don't know anything, and I don't care. My personal win condition doesn't mean anything to me really. Do you honestly think if it did and that's what I was shooting for that I would mention it? I'm not a moron.

[Tammy]

Votecount 1.10

The Central Scrutinizer (4) - Nachomamma8, Arc, Whiskers, Tammy
FuDuzn (3) - FourTrouble, Empking, Zdenek
Tammy (2) - The Avering, The Central Scrutinizer
Zdenek (1) - Serrapaladin
Arc (1) - FuDuzn
Whiskers (1) - PimHel

Not Voting (0)

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

---

Do you use that whole timing argument often, or is it just a scum tactic? Cause I'm not going to convince you to unvote me in any game ever if you actually think that's a scumtell.

Why are you ignoring everything I said and focusing on that? You still didn't answer my question.

In order for it to be a scum tactic, I'd have to be scum, which I'm not. I thought it was odd that it took you nearly 24 hours to come up with that response even though you'd already responded. It wasn't like you pointed out things that were bugging you, which would show you actually reading my posts and trying to determine my alignment. You just said, hey I think you're full of shit. That response could have very easily been given the previous day when you said curiosity mainly. I hadn't posted anything new in the meantime which makes it especially odd.

Also, I don't really believe in scumtells. I have a few that work on the whole far better than average, but I'm not a big scum tell person.

If you are town, and you want me to unvote you, then I want to see your thought process. Why am I full of shit, so much so that you think I'm scum or are pretending to think I'm scum? I think I'm very obviously trying to figure this game and people out. And am trying to get the game going forward a little which is especially important if people's alignments do change after today, which has been difficult because most people around here are practically in hiding and not giving much to go on. So show me that your suspicion of me is genuine and not just made up, that's what I actually look for.

[Tammy]

See in Post 73 that you quoted, I wasn't trying to defend myself or use self meta. People were asking why I wasn't answering Arc's questioning(what I did, and still, think was deflection), so I was explaining why.

If anything, it helps to explain my thought process into why I do think Arc is scum and why I continue to be on him.

This is weak and pretty lame. Arc asked you some pretty standard questions. Why did you vote TCS in the first place? Arc is right, you didn't comment on it. What are your actual reads?

Going oh see I just pick a scum read and stick with that and don't really bother with looking for other scum until one is caught is wtf? You can't be serious about that. I don't remember you being so one note in leprechaun mafia.

Hey, fuduzn. Why aren't you responding to this btw?

[Tammy]

Fuduzn - I'm not going to quote that because I'm on my phone and it's a pain in the ass.

There is no wine in front of me, sadly. I brought up what I brought up because I doubt I'm the only one with a personal win condition like that. When I saw my role pm, I thought everyone had one involving another person, so when empking clearly tried to out grills and TCS obliged, I thought it was suspect. I considered the possibility at first that they were partners going for a silly gambit but decided that was more unlikely. But then I still wondered why TCS outed his character so easily, and wondered briefly if scum didn't have personal win conditions, hence me asking about why he outed his character like that. Then whiskers claimed to not have a regular role per se, therefore he might not have a personal win condition like mine.

I think it's pretty clear if you read my post why I mentioned having a personal win condition. It explains why I don't want anyone full claiming. TCS gladly giving away his character and saying that the flavor doesn't mean anything to his role means its possible he doesn't have a personal win condition like mine or he would have understood my response to him. Pimhel would have understood why I didn't want anyone full claiming without me saying anything. I don't know why this is hard to understand. I don't know if I'm the only one with a personal win condition like that, but I doubt I am. Therefore, people shouldnt full claim.

I don't care about my personal win condition, that's why I have no problem talking about it. If I cared about it, I wouldn't have even brought it up. I would be all for whiskers full claiming; it wouldn't have bothered me that TCS outed his character as that would help me narrow down my search. I don't want to know though, and in case there are some wihtout a win condition like that, they should be aware there are some so don't full claim. This should be pretty self explanatory.

And just so you know wifom really only applies to things that are just as likely to be one or the other.

I'm not even close to Sheeping zdenek on a meta thing. That's stretching and an attempt to discredit me. Zdeneks self meta argument is bad, in that I don't agree with it, but him looking through your meta is kinda townish and I was interested in seeing where the argument went as I figured I could get a better read on both of you from that. I asked about you and the way you were behaving because you seem way less engaged than the game we played together. I also didn't remember you just saying one person is scum and not really looking for others, which is what it sounded like you were saying here.

I'm just going to ignore your comment about me and women, it got old enough in leprechaun mafia.

Pedit: it answered why I don't want anyone full claiming fuduzn.

[Tammy]

But also, that is wifom. No one except you knows how likely or not you are to screw town over in favor of your personal wincon. So you are just as likely to be telling us the truth, or completely lying out of your ass.

Except I have no way of knowing if my personal win con is incompatible or will change my town win con. It could very well be compatible with my town win con. It could very well be a joke by the mod as one or both of the people might not even be in the game. It's just there and it's why I don't want people full claiming. I might not be the only one, and I don't want to be distracted by it.

So what you're suggesting is that ts just as likely that I propose a way that I couldn't fulfill my personal win con or make it much harder on myself just so I could possibly screw over town with a win con that might not even be contra to town? I mean I suppose it's possible, but likely? Not from someone like me. Sorry.

[Tammy]

While this discussion is up, whiskers, in post 231, you say you can win with any faction, not "win with either the scum or the town", was this a slip that there is more than two factions in this game? It would be helpful information if you could let us know.

Any time a town win condition uses the plural for threats, there's a possibility there's more than one threat.

[Tammy]

@Tammy
So if Whiskers claims what the requirements are without his role name, you're fine with it?
Also, shouldn't you have been all over Empking instead of TCS?

Yeah, I'm fine with him talking about his role if he wants. I mean who knows what people's win conditions are, but I'd hope that talking about roles wouldn't be harmful.

As far as Empking, if I were an original player in the game I would have been questioning Empking more. At first, I thought they could be partners, then I thought Empking was a lyncher, but Empking seemed kind of townish. Then he asked if anyone knew anything about the afterlife, which makes it sound like he's just a bit semi-informed or something. Then I got a strong town read on you and you vouched for Empking and claimed to know that this was his town play. If I don't have a strong reason to think someone's scum and a town read claims to have meta reasons for town reading someone else, I tend to take that into account, especially on day one.

TCS hasn't given me a reason to think he's town, and I thought the way he dealt with the whole thing suspect.

[Tammy]

Tammy still feels off, like she was scumhunting for the appearance of scumhunting, not truly for it.

I always love it when people who are doing little more than sideline sniping criticize the people who are actively trying to get the game moving forward. As I've already said, I'm struggling to get reads I feel confident about, and a big reason why is because this game is so damn inactive. I'm trying to move the game forward and get people talking, but it's pretty much impossible when people are just sitting around going meh. This is totally not how I scumhunt for the appearance of it when I'm scum, but good try. Now actually read my posts.

[Tammy]

Tammy, you agree with Nacho about voting TCS?

It's where my vote is and is my best guess for actual scum right now. But, I don't feel confident enough in it to tell you that's where your vote should be.

[Tammy]

Okay I like fuduzn, think he's probably town.

I'm not sure what to do with Avering and Whiskers. I feel like Avering is less of a threat to the town than Whiskers though. The asking to be killed on a night when he is town rather than survivor feels super genuine and is something I would just imagine would come from someone who would prefer to be town if he could. Whiskers though. I don't know what to do about whiskers.

[Tammy]

Basically a prod dodge.

Been really busy this week. I'll try to get to this tonight, but I'm not promising anything. It will probably be tomorrow.

[Tammy]

I still would like to see an Arc lynch, but I don't think I will convince anyone else to join me. ZD seems scummy based off of his 'case' on me and how he kept tweeking it to fit his argument. I don't like Tammy(not personally, in the game), but I know she has a balls to wall get a bit crazy playstyle, she did start to sheep on ZD a bit but has backed off, she would be someone to go back to but not sure if I could see her as scum at this juncture. I still am weary about lynching Whiskers, but even if he isn't a jester I don't get scum vibes from him anyways.

Basically, let's lynch Arc. But I could be convinced to switch to ZD/Rinin.

I don't think sheeping means what you think it means fuduzn. Don't even start trying to stretch. I asked you a question based on my experience with you in a game. My impression was that you were saying that you basically stick with one person until they're lynched, which was contra to my experience with you in leprechaun in which you sounded more engaged and didn't actually do that. Asking you a question is not sheeping someone else. Sorry. Like I think you're probably town but this is a scummy stretch.

[Tammy]

[preedit]
Ok, a good time to post this anyway then. WHY is Tammy "grey" or scum? I've been reading her as "about as town as serrapaladin" but "twice as active as serrapaladin"-- in other words, very Townie.

Her reactions are all very confrontational and sassy. In, like, the "woah calm the fuck down there" kind of way. It's as if she's just trying to make us all back down so we don't get on her bad side. (Which would be, if our suspicions are right, mafia or anti-town third-party.)

Also, her "win condition" is very vague. If it really doesn't matter who gets lynched, then this means that she wouldn't mind watching each non-anti get picked off one by one.

Yeah they are confrontational and sassy. Thanks! You've just described my town play. I'm much more subdued and less confrontational when scum (If you want a glimpse of my scum play, look at the way nacho's playing, that's pretty close to how I play as scum btw). Why would you think being aggressive and putting yourself out there is not town?

Where are you getting I even suggested my win condition doesn't matter who gets lynched? My win condition is a town win condition. I have a personal win condition which include me using my role on certain characters. But, I worry that it could cause my alignment to shift, therefore I don't want to know people's characters because I don't want to get distracted. And I doubt I'm the only one with that type of win condition. Like this shouldn't be very hard to understand. There is very little chance that me, with a scum win condition, cares that my personal win condition might change my alignment and decides to make it harder for me to fulfill that. Sorry, but you're barking up the wrong tree here.

[Tammy]

Pre Edit: Tammy, were you scum in leprachaun mafia?

No, but you thought I was until endgame I think.

[Tammy]

Ha, and apparently I still think you were scum there. I was thinking 'but Tammy, you acted the same as scum once'.

I have trouble letting things go lol.

That's called a really strong case of confirmation bias >_>

[Tammy]

Wasn't directed at you Whiskers.

Zdenek did seem kind of scummy reading through his stuff, which sucks because now I gotta defend my sorry non-scum ass.

is the Amished tell, but I haven't figured rinin out yet, hence the question mark.

If he were an experience player I'd be discounting this immediately, but that he's new eh. It makes me feel twitchy. But he might just not know any better.

[Tammy]

GuyInAFreezer

Tammy: Kind of reading grey to me. Something seems off about the way she talks and addresses people. Dunno. It's basically valid hunting, but taking on so many things at once is kind of off-putting, and the way she defends herself puts me off as well. And how she addresses people. But that's probably just her style of talking, being so confrontational to everyone. Regardless of townie or scum status, she's extremely aggressive in keeping attention and suspicious off herself. Possible vote in the future depending on how things go and what she says.

What is wrong with talking on so many things at once? What does that even mean?

EmpKing: Deep grey. He's sure backsassing a lot, and not really doing much explaining. Seems like he's just hitching a ride with the drama boat.

You say that empking is deep grey, but vote me. Do you typically vote your lesser scum reads? Just marking this because if either of you ever flip scum, this needs to be looked at. You putting him as your scum read and mentioning him later but not voting him is eh.

TCS: Non-mafia... if only because he has a much different role in all this, from what he's implied throughout the thread. Possible third party or cult?

Yeah these are not town roles. Why would you think there's a cult? Isn't this your second time playing?

The Avering: Do I really have to.

Yes, what's your read?

[Tammy]

[
I'll lynch whomever; even though I don't have reasons, I've liked all of the wagons today. Maybe I'm just gutty right now. Fuduzn tops my list, but Zdenek and TCS are also acceptable lynches imo.

Gods this is atrocious. I kinda wanna lynch whiskers even if he's a jester just because I can't trust him or his role.

[Tammy]

I'm the vig you asshats. That's why I said it means more to me that my scum reads are correct. That's why I don't want to know characters because if I kill two certain characters it fulfills my personal win condition, but I worry if they're town it might actually turn me into a serial killer, and I don't that to happen.

So, if you do decide to collectively derp and lynch me, you look at Empking, TCS, Nacho and the Zdenek replacement. There will be scum there.

[Tammy]

And yes, I kept a couple of my scum reads close, because I contemplated being able to take care of them at night, but apparently some of you are just scum or don't know how to pick out obvious town play.

[Tammy]

Why......claim?

I'm at L-2... why not?

[Tammy]

I'm the vig you asshats. That's why I said it means more to me that my scum reads are correct. That's why I don't want to know characters because if I kill two certain characters it fulfills my personal win condition, but I worry if they're town it might actually turn me into a serial killer, and I don't that to happen.

Surely if you want to avoid killing two people then knowing who they are would be pretty useful?

No. Because all I'm given is two characters. I'm not told their alignments. They could very easily be scum. But, if I know who they are, wouldn't I pretty much be compelled to kill them to fulfill my first win condition, or get distracted by that? I'd rather just focus on my town win condition and take care of who I think are scum or anti-town.

[Tammy]

But that isn't L-1.

And I think a ZD/Rinin lynch can happen. He is a hell of a lot scummier than you.

There's not much of a difference between L-1 and L-2.

And I'm not scummy at all.

[Tammy]

Like for effing serious empking you are not new to mafia. You have to know that the person who is pretty active and aggressive and trying to move the game forward and figure out alignments is far more often town than scum. You're not a moron. I could totally see a newbie going "oh that makes me paranoid it's could be scum trying to fool me" but you're not a newbie and don't have that excuse.

[Tammy]

Like for effing serious empking you are not new to mafia. You have to know that the person who is pretty active and aggressive and trying to move the game forward and figure out alignments is far more often town than scum. You're not a moron. I could totally see a newbie going "oh that makes me paranoid it's could be scum trying to fool me" but you're not a newbie and don't have that excuse.

I'm not so sure you're trying to find out alignments. It seems more like you've got set alignments to begin with and are badgering people who step out of them.

Do better than that Empking. You're sounding really fake right now. And I want you to do better. You show the town what you're really made of. It might not matter tomorrow, but if I'm actually lynched, it will be examined later if any member of the town is still alive and smart, and I want you to make it clear why obvious town is suspect in your eyes.

[Tammy]

Do you know how much the people in this game are being lazy? This game started on May 1st. That's 16 days ago, and barely anyone is participating. TCS last few posts are just talking about TV or something but nothing to do with the actual game, and Empking is actually saying that's town. Do you guys pay attention? Are you actually serious? One or both of them is scum. I'll be super surprised if they both come back town. I do take PimHel's town read on Empking into account, but he's still objectively scummy but I also know that that's Empking's play. But still.

And fourtrouble who knows... he could be scum but I still do think there's something to him voting whiskers for being passive as I have done that myself and think it's a more town thing to do. I think that if he were scum knowing that whiskers always town reads him he'd try to buddy him or something or act like how he acts to get the town read.

Fuduzn is most likely town. So is Serrapaladin.

I don't know what to think about the Avering. Except his I want to be killed on a night when I'm town sounds really genuine so even if he isn't town he sounds like he's in a town mindset. Arc might be town.

Seriously think that scum are in Nacho, Empking, TCS, zdenek replacement.

I have no idea what to make of whiskers.

I was trying to decide between whiskers or nacho for tonight, but whatever. If you lynch me please look at my suspect list.

[Tammy]

Oh pimhel is most likely town too.

[Tammy]

Like for effing serious empking you are not new to mafia. You have to know that the person who is pretty active and aggressive and trying to move the game forward and figure out alignments is far more often town than scum. You're not a moron. I could totally see a newbie going "oh that makes me paranoid it's could be scum trying to fool me" but you're not a newbie and don't have that excuse.

I'm not so sure you're trying to find out alignments. It seems more like you've got set alignments to begin with and are badgering people who step out of them.

Do better than that Empking. You're sounding really fake right now. And I want you to do better. You show the town what you're really made of. It might not matter tomorrow, but if I'm actually lynched, it will be examined later if any member of the town is still alive and smart, and I want you to make it clear why obvious town is suspect in your eyes.

You're not obvious town. You're clearly not obvious town. You're just trying to badger people into saying your obvious town. THe Vig claim is also very convenient for that badgering approach.

Whatever. I've said my piece and gave my reads. Leave your vote there. I'm sure scum want to get rid of the vig; it makes it really convenient.

And I am obviously town and you know it.

[Tammy]

Empking - How is a vig claim convenient for a badering approach. And what the fuck is that? Being active is now a badgering approach. Getting reads is now a badgering approach. Interesting and good to know.

I suppose being town means just not participating and barely doing anything or trying to get reads.

Whatever I'm done. Just town, look at my reads when I'm done. Particularly at Nacho who's lack of engagement is really suspect. And Empking who is literally trying to push to get rid of the vig. I mean seriously if anyone can't read through my posts and see that I'm being sincere about this whole thing then I don't know what to tell you. Good luck with your game of people not participating or trying to actually find scum.

[Tammy]

Votecount 1.16

The Central Scrutinizer (3) - Nachomamma8, Arc, Tammy
FuDuzn (2) - FourTrouble, Empking
Tammy (2) - The Avering, Riningear
Riningear (2) - Serrapaladin, FuDuzn
Whiskers (1) - PimHel
FourTrouble (1) - The Central Scrutinizer

Not Voting (1) - Whiskers

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

The vote in post 383 (Empking for Tammy) does not count because lack of unvote.

PimHel is V/LA until 5/20

---

Like for effing serious empking you are not new to mafia. You have to know that the person who is pretty active and aggressive and trying to move the game forward and figure out alignments is far more often town than scum. You're not a moron. I could totally see a newbie going "oh that makes me paranoid it's could be scum trying to fool me" but you're not a newbie and don't have that excuse.

I'm not so sure you're trying to find out alignments. It seems more like you've got set alignments to begin with and are badgering people who step out of them.

Do better than that Empking. You're sounding really fake right now. And I want you to do better. You show the town what you're really made of. It might not matter tomorrow, but if I'm actually lynched, it will be examined later if any member of the town is still alive and smart, and I want you to make it clear why obvious town is suspect in your eyes.

You're not obvious town. You're clearly not obvious town. You're just trying to badger people into saying your obvious town. THe Vig claim is also very convenient for that badgering approach.

And just so you know this does not actually answer the question. But why am I not surprised. It's easier for you to just spout bs than actually come up with a real answer.

[Tammy]

Oh and if it isn't clear. Empking just basically scum claimed.

I was probably right at the start that Empking and TCS did that thing as part of a partner dance.

[Tammy]

Oh and here's the flavor in case it just isn't obvious that everything I've said is leading up to this is true. I'm Patrick Bateman. (misaligned anyone? Got a kick out of finding out I was a vig and not a serial killer). The two people mentioned in my personal win condition are Paul Allen and a hooker. But, I kinda don't think either of them are in the game anyway, but it's pretty humorous regardless.

[Tammy]

Um Empking, just because there wasn't a question mark, doesn't mean that telling you to make it clear why I'm suspect isn't a question, but nice way to skirt the issue.

You're scum.

[Tammy]

You're acting like a crazy person demanding answers to questions never asked. You're just trying to save your skin, its an original gambit but not one I wish to indulge.

(The whole
Post A: One of TCS or Empking are scum.
Post B: Empking is scum so don't listen to him, but I'm not lifting my vote from TCS because I've magically decided that they're partners.
is as fake as anything too.)

So, scum fake claim vig on day one these days? OOOOOOOOKKKKKKAAAAAAAYYYYYYY. You're not a moron. Or are you?

I made it clear when I joined this game that I was suspect of the interaction between you and TCS at the beginning of the game. I came around to thinking maybe you were town, but I was wrong on that. So was Pimhel. I've thought TCS was scum this whole time and he's not doing anything to make me think differently. I'd also be interested in a Zdenek replacement lynch or a you lynch. But a you lynch isn't going to happen because apparently to the people on this playlist, inactive means town, whereas active and trying to figure the game out means scum. I feel like I entered the twilight zone of mafia here.

[Tammy]

I also think that Nacho would be a good lynch.

[Tammy]

^ mark that. mark anyone who's actually still voting the vig.

Oh don't join that game it's bastard my friend said. But, it's bastard that's why I want to join it I said.

But, did you look at the playerlist he said? Yeah, but some of them I like playing with I said.

Lesson learned.

[Tammy]

Um Empking, just because there wasn't a question mark, doesn't mean that telling you to make it clear why I'm suspect isn't a question, but nice way to skirt the issue.

So you're calling me scum because I didn't give in to your badgering to do whatever you say, and to ignore the elephant in the room of your repeated declarations of being obv-town.

On day one, the question is whether your false claim is found at sooner or later. Your implicit 'vote me and I'll vig you' approach is why the vig claim is awfully convenient.

Dafuq? You can't be serious. You just can't. I actually think you're smarter than this Empking, which is why I'm having a problem with your play.

You do recall that you were the first person to declare yourself obvtown...do you not? Don't you? Here's a refresher:

If I were to play devils advocate though, the interaction between empking/TCS seems a bit weird but there is little to no chance I would switch to one of them at this point.

Because I'm obvtown and TCS is your buddy?

No, I think I have the strength of mind not to get on a mafia site when I'm drunk.

I have a question for you now, why are you "obvtown"? I haven't seen anything that points strongly towards either alignment yet, but I do find you suspicious already. So if you made an "obvtown" post somewhere and I missed it, I'd like to see it. :rollseyes:

The rollsseyes there is overcompensating btw.

I'm the only player properly invested in this game and trying to find the scum, ergo obvtown. Compare me to Whiskers, for example, I don't think he's said one word that could be construed as useful.

When I first said I was obvtown to you, it was partly in jest, to see how you might or might not respond because you were calling yourself obvtown for really weak reasons. You can't now use calling myself obtown against me, when sorry but I have been playing obvtown. I know my town play, and I know my obvtown play and this is it.

I never said vote me and I'll vig you. But nice way to stretch, I'm glad your showing your obvscum ways. I'm pretty sure I said earlier the two people I considered vigging were whiskers and Nacho. OMG why didn't I tell everyone I had a scum read on Nacho? Because you don't effing do that. If you have been reading my posts, like you should be if you're town, you would see me talking about how important to me it is that my scum reads are correct, you would see that me not wanting for people to claim their characters so it doesn't interfere with my town win condition.

You would see all that if you were actually reading, but instead your making stuff up that I never even said.

I've never even badgered anyone to do what I want. Unless you consider people asking questions and getting people to participate badgering. IF I were badgering people to do what I wanted, when FourTrouble asked me about voting TCS, I'd have been like yes vote him, not he's who I'm voting for but I don't feel confident enough to tell other people to vote him.

Don't you dare try to twist the way I'm playing. You can call me aggressive if you want. But badgering people to do what I want? That's just complete made up bullshit. And I never ever threatened to vig anyone who voted me. This is completely made up and this is why you're more likely scum.

[Tammy]

You're not obvious town. You're clearly not obvious town. You're just trying to badger people into saying your obvious town. THe Vig claim is also very convenient for that badgering approach.

@Tammy: This sums up my argument for you. No if, and, ors, or butts [sic].

You act like you're holding a kitchen knife and screaming out the front door when you hear sirens in the distance. Asking questions to respond to questions, cussing out everyone like you're keeping the kids off your lawn, jumping around points... It's suspicious as all hell.

Your post mainly about self-meta ("oh, well THIS is how I play town") didn't help either.

Keeping vote on Tammy.

Also, how do I know about cults and third parties? I read through a lot of the mafiascum wiki when I realized that everyone seems to have a role (and because everyone tells me to anyway). Mine's odd as well but whatever. I'm getting my first taste of a bastard mod game. :U

If you're town, you should probably read through some games, so you actually know how town behaves. If you're scum, keep it up. You're predecessor was meh and so are you.

[Tammy]

Well I'm sorry Im such a foul-mouthed badgerer who tried to get the game moving forward. I wouldn't want to make the game unpleasant.

mod - please replace me

[Tammy]

You'd think in a game about suspicion, people would have a thicker skin

Emp: why would scum-Tammy fakeclaim vig, when it's pretty easy to confirm? I'd say worst case is she's now a leashed SK, although I'm inclined to believe the vig claim.

Tammy: please don't replace out? Your activity was sort of refreshing...
Do you really think Emp/TCS would run this sort of show as scumbuddies? Any reason you suspect Nacho except his passiveness?

You're probably right. It's not a cool thing anyway. I don't have the thickest of skin, but I rarely get suspected as town, so it's not usually a problem. Also, it's not about the suspicion solely. Empking refused to answer me for why I was so obviously scum. Something he should be able to answer, but it's empking, so I don't know why I was expecting anything more, and yes, he's probably scum.

Why would scum of any flavor fake claim VIG on day one, that's a moronic move. And I'm not a moron. If I were trying to out another role as empking says I'm doing with the VIG claim, why would I do it with VIG? That's such a mind-numbingly stupid suggestion. If I were fake claiming as scum in order to draw out the real whatever, I'd fake claim doc or cop (duh). Those are roles much more likely to actually be in a game.

As far as whether or not emp/TCS would do that? I think it's possible, and empking's behavior last night makes it more likely that he's scum. His weak arguments against me that I'm badgering? Wtf? Makes me scum because I don't want to be lynched? Welcome to my town game. I'm never mislynched and always fight a possible lynch of myself when town, unless I think that my staying alive will hurt town in lylo. I don't really fight my lynch as scum because I don't really care about my games as scum. I hate playing scum, so I'm rarely engaged, active, or aggressive. His accusation that I started out the game with preset alignments is demonstrably false as well. I started off the game thinking empking was scum, but then thought I might be wrong mostly due to pimhel, thought that avering was most definitely scum but decided his manner of voting me and reasoning made him more likely to be town even though he's wrong, and thought that fuduzn had a good chance to be scum but decided he was probably town after interacting with him.

Nacho's passiveness is part of the problem. As is some of the things he comments on and asks questions about. They don't really seem to matter. Although I like him trying to suss out why people are suspicious of me. Hes played with me several times and would know this is my town play. But he's just kinda going along with the flow (which is incidentally how I'd be playing this game if I were scum). What bothers me about this is that when I talked about how slow this game was moving and how passive everyone is, he said people would probably be that way until we were sure what was up with the possible alignment changes. For someone who expects that might happen I would think he'd be a bit more engaged because getting people to be active today and get out their thoughts today is important. Because looking at how people's play over the next few days possibly changes and whether or not it's done organically can be a big help. I just got done playing a game with nacho!scum and he had a similar early approach. However, I don't feel really confident in being able to read nacho accurately until about day three, maybe starting on day two.

So, while I was debating about vigging nacho, it was most likely going to be whiskers. He's antiown in play and role and that's pretty much confirmed. He's a danger to town. I'm sure the fact that I made it clear he was one of my VIG targets will make him get on my lynch today.

With that being said, I might be too at some point. I think it would be kinda passé for my alignment to switch to sk because it's just humorous as hell that I'm misaligned in the first place and am town. But it could happen I guess, so lynching me might be the best decision to keep that from happening. Although that's stupid as hell anyway and because I've been active and aggressive, it would be easy to spot me if my alignment changes. Also, lynching me confirms me as town, so you can look at the fake suspicion that we thrown my way after, and it will let the majority of you get back to playing this game as if your listening to elevator music.

As far as the zdenek slot. Z was meh, his self meta argument against fuduzn was bad, but he replaced out before I could get a read on him. His replacement is meh, but he's so new I can't really read that. And I can totally buy someone that new getting paranoid about the aggressive and active player. I remember when I was new always thinking the person who was most active was most suspicious because I thought they were fooling me.

Arc - yes, I thought I was at l-2, and I could see it easily going to l-1 if TCS got on ns revolted me. I'm not used to playing in mini's and I thought it was five to lynch. I don't know why I thought that though because I don't play in micros either. I usually play in larges. And just because I was in a bad mood and had a meltdown doesn't mean I'm incapable of making good VIG choices. Everything I've done so far is me balancing what I'm doing with the day and thinking about what I'm going to do at night.

Fuduzn - good thought. I will. I shouldn't have played yesterday anyway and have too many things going on right now.

Also, you can tell me who to kill all you want, but Im making my own choice. I've already decided if I live whiskers is getting vigged. I don't even care if you don't like it or lynch me for it. That is the best thing for town and it's what I'm doing.

For anyone who thinks I'm a sk, you should reread my posts. As sk, I would encourage people to full claim, not ask people not too, or I just wouldn't say anything at all. I am misaligned. I should be an sk, but I'm not. My play would be a whole hell of a lot different if I were an sk.

[Tammy]

If I were trying to out another role as empking says I'm doing with the VIG claim, why would I do it with VIG?

When did I say that? Tammy is continuing with her barrage of untruths to continue to try and get the game on the wrong track.

This is a scum claim. Are you and TCS competing for who can use the most hyperbole in a game?

If I have a barrage of untruths, list them. But you couldn't even give reasons for why you actually suspect me last night, and instead argued over whether or not my request was a question.

But by all means co time with your empty rhetoric, hopefully once I'm confirmed town people will recognize you for what you are.

That's how I interpreted 425 and was picked up on by whiskers.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: empking

Whiskers I'll get back to you later.

[Tammy]

Well, calling lots of players "definitely town" is often a red flag, so it does reinforce my argument that FourTrouble is scum.

I think early mid-wagon votes are often good places for scum; and I think scum buddying new players is a good thing for scum to do.

Are these new concepts?

TCS here. I pointed this out before. Ft had only called empking definitely town, and here you say he's calling lots definitely town. Then you claim he's buddying arc when all he did was say he seems town.

That's exaggeration of the stances to make him look bad.

Empking is scum claiming by using "barrage of untruths" in an attempt to use empty rhetoric to make me look bad. I haven't told any untruths at all. That is not trying to assess my motivations which means he's not actually scumhunting but is pretending to. He's not actually trying to figure this game out because he's not town.

[Tammy]

If I were trying to out another role as empking says I'm doing with the VIG claim, why would I do it with VIG?

When did I say that? Tammy is continuing with her barrage of untruths to continue to try and get the game on the wrong track.

This is a scum claim. Are you and TCS competing for who can use the most hyperbole in a game?

If I have a barrage of untruths, list them. But you couldn't even give reasons for why you actually suspect me last night, and instead argued over whether or not my request was a question.

But by all means co time with your empty rhetoric, hopefully once I'm confirmed town people will recognize you for what you are.

That's how I interpreted 425 and was picked up on by whiskers.

So I never said what you said I said - 'That's how I interpreted 425' is not what town who misinterpreted my post would have said. Its more or less an admission that you misinterperated me and people don't consider their own interpretations misinterpretations - your lies in your last post were 1. 'But you couldn't even give reasons for why you actually suspect me last night' when I said my reason was you choosing to barrage rather than scumhunt. 2. 'instead argued over whether or not my request was a question.' no I didn't - you lied (3) and said you made a question when you didn't and you then lied (4) and said requests and questions are the same thing. 'That's how I interpreted 425 and was picked up on by whiskers.' is your third lie in that post (5). Add that to your 100s of 'I'm obvtown posts', your 100s of 'I'm not barraging' posts and you've approximately 517 lies and I'm undoubtedly missing some.

Lies. I didn't say I misinterpreted it. I said that's how I interpreted it. You even quote it. Reading is tech...derp derp.

Where wasn't I scumhunting. That's a lie. You've played with me before. This is how I scum hunt. Saying you barrage is not actially giving a reason for someone being scum. It's using empty words and rhetoric that means nothing.

Post 402 is you telling me I didn't ask you a question when I quite clearly told you to explain the scum read so that if I get lynched when people are reviewing it later, you would be held accountable. You didn't answer that. You said all you're doing is badgering people into calling you town. That is complete bs and I told you that doesn't answer it.

Am I questioning people about the stuff they throw at me? Duh I'm fucking tow of course I'm going to. I actually care about the game and finding actual scum, and determining if someone's suspicion of me is genuine or fake is a way to get a read on them. Like this isn't your first time playing mafia.

Do you realize I called myself obvious town 4 times? One of them was part in jest to you because of you calling yourself obvious town. Three others were last night. I've referenced my town win condition when talking about that and my town play, so you're just super exaggerating and making stuff up. That's why you're scum. Town has no reason to lie like you just did or argue over whether something is a question. Town would just do it, but you have no real reason to think I'm scum so have to resort to making stuff up.

I'd say I'm sorry you drew scum this time, but from what I understand you prefer scum and that's the only real time you put any effort in games. So, I guess congratulations are in order.

[Tammy]

Also tammy, my rude comment towards you was mainly an annoyance of getting up and first thing in the morning, on a rather busy morning and i had to read to and respond to about two pages of someone trolling you and you doing the equivalent of hollering like a child. I'm sorry if I offended you with that.

I didn't think it was rude and I didn't get offended. Fuduzn is right, or whoever said it, I sometimes let my emotions get the best of me.

[Tammy]

Empking - I'm not quoting that. I have been scumhunting. I have objectively been analyzing proples posts and that's clear if you read me. That's how I got a weak town read on ft and explained it. That's how I got my town read I'm pimhel and early working town read on you. That's how I got a town read on avering. That's how I started reading fuduzn as town. That's how I was trying to get a read on TCS. Am I having a hard time here? Yes, I've fully admitted that. I'm used to far more activity than this game.

And I do try to figure out if people's suspicion of me is genuine or fake and have a lot of times been able to get accurate reads on that. Do you remember zdenek and GvE? Realizing at the end of arguing with him for two weeks over why I was so obviously scum when I wasn't is what made me realize he was town. I've been able to figure out several times when it's scum fake scum reading me. But I more hunt town in that blind spot. If you know my town game because you say you respect it, and you are town then I can't see how you can't see that this is my town play.

And I only checked because I didn't remember calling myself town lots of times, but it's something I do sometimes especially if I'm under suspicion as town. So yes your hyperbole in that department made me think you're scum because you're saying I'm doing something a lot I'm not doing.

If you are town empking you should look back at my posts because you are wrong about me.

[Tammy]

Votecount 1.18

Empking (3) - Arc, Riningear, Tammy
FuDuzn (2) - FourTrouble, Empking
Riningear (2) - Serrapaladin, FuDuzn
The Central Scrutinizer (1) - Nachomamma8
Tammy (1) - The Avering
Whiskers (1) - PimHel
FourTrouble (1) - The Central Scrutinizer

Not Voting (1) - Whiskers

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

PimHel is V/LA until 5/20

---

If we don't lynch Tammy, we should really leash her. The chances of her being SK are way too significant to ignore.

Entirely this. My personal feelings about Tammy being town aside, her use of the "misaligned" part of this game to justify why she is Vig rather SK leaves enough doubt for me to prefer her leashed.

Lynching Rining and seeing FourT (or Emp, I guess) vigged would be optimal. Whiskers would be a compromise, but I disagree with Tammy that it'd be optimal for town. I do believe that Whiskers has some survivoresque wincon, and I don't have a problem keeping him alive to fulfill it. I definitely see FourT and Rining as more likely to flip scum than Whiskers. Not sure about Emp or Nacho. The former worries me with regards to the TCS business, and the latter hasn't really done enough for me to justify a good read either way

Any chance you could reconsider, Tammy?

I am misaligned though. Have you ever seen American psycho? Patrick Bateman is a serial killer. It's totally what I thought my role was until I got to the vigilante part then had to read it like three times to make sure I read that right. There is no way I'd claim VIG as serial killer day one or probably not at all. That's handing you an early ticket to the grave. I emphasized me being misaligned because I am and it's part of why I don't think my alignment will change.

I'll take input from the town, but I'm not going to be leashed. I'm fine with discussing it, but it's still my role and I'm taking the responsibility for what I do. I'll take far more into consideration those I have pretty decent town reads on though, and won't kill people I have town reads on.

I thought whiskers would be best because he's confirmed not town aligned or to have a non town win condition and could be dangerous for the town. I thought that better than one of the people I have leaning scum reads on but am not sure about. I'm worried about what nacho said about that one game where everyone thought they were town until day three. If that's the case here, I could really hurt town, so thought the confirmed unaligned would be better.

[Tammy]

I'm happy to talk with town about it, but I'm not vigging someone I have a town read on. If you want to lynch me for that, fine. I don't care. But just like I wouldn't vote a town read unless to secure a lynch, I won't kill one.

So, if leasing means you kill this person or were lynching you, then lynch me today because I won't play that way. If you mean we can discuss it, and within my limitations do it, that's fine.

[Tammy]

Unvote

When Tammy shot me as a Day SK she claimed vig further down the line when she was wagonned, but was also much more open to being leashed. The fact she isn't as accepting of being leashed suggests to me that she probably is a vig after all in this game.

I'll look for a good place for my vote later.

I claimed because I thought I was at l-2.

Well that narrows down who your main is. If you re who I think you are now, you just default to reading me as scum when I'm town. I didn't claim dayvig in that game just because I was wagoned. I had a cop guilty on me and as I had already shot mafia and people were expecting a dayvig, I claimed that to try to get around the guilty. I had breadcrumbed commuter an had planned to claim that or ss maker which were two of my actual roles.

[Tammy]

Avering: Tammy was in that game with you; she's also the sort of player to remember what you just outlined.

It's your assumption I hoped that someone in this game read that game and would notice my attitude was different and proclaim me real VIG due to it? Unlikely. Especially considering the only reason I ended up getting lynched in that game even though I promised to do whatever town told me to, with the exception of targeting the pgo, and after a 50 page argument about it was because I had a cop guilty on me.

Everyone: Tammy is not a SK. She is mafia claiming a vig because its pretty much guaranteed to make us waste a late-lynch rather than spending the day one lynch on her. There's no point leashing her because she has no independent kill to be leashed. I did the same strategy as a Bookie in a semi-recent large normal. You lot are playing like it is early 2012 rather than mid-2013. You're going to mislynch me today, buy her 'me no know why no kill' tomorrow, and finally lynch her on day four where the remaining scum manage to walk under the radar to stroll to victory.

This is preposterous. Now you get to tell me who makes sense as a partner to Patrick Bateman. Oh no one? How about that. Don't you dare compare your scum game to mine and use it as evidence of what I would do. I don't make outrageous fake claims as scum. I just don't. In fact I'm pretty sure I've always fake claimed vanilla as scum unless I've claimed my actual role or replaced into a slot that already claimed. I'm much more careful and reserved as scum. I'm much less active and engaged as scum because frankly I just hate playing scum. I probably wouldn't have even claimed at that point as scum because I wouldn't care as much.

[Tammy]

Tammy, I can understand where you're coming from with your read on Empking but the problem I have is his play here looks completely different from his play in Dark Souls where he was mafia. I don't see Empking being scum here, or at the very least, he is certainly not mafia. In Dark Souls he was more rational, calm and passive. He is way more aggressive, paranoid, and irrational here. I have a hard time seeing how that shift isn't indicative of a change in alignment.

When I played with him in GvE he was lurky and passive as town. When he replaced into KH as evil he was more active. So I don't know if I can just get a read on him because of meta when my understanding is he puts in more effort as scum than when town.

[Tammy]

My impression was that you were saying that you basically stick with one person until they're lynched, which was contra to my experience with you in leprechaun in which you sounded more engaged and didn't actually do that.

That shouldn't surprise you based on how strongly he pushed you in leprechaun mafia?

He did push me hard in that game, but he also looked around at other suspects. But it doesn't matter anyway, I misunderstood what he meant when when he was arguing his side to zdenek, which was why I asked in the first place. He elaborated his view point and it made sense.

Whatever I'm done. Just town, look at my reads when I'm done. Particularly at Nacho who's lack of engagement is really suspect. And Empking who is literally trying to push to get rid of the vig. I mean seriously if anyone can't read through my posts and see that I'm being sincere about this whole thing then I don't know what to tell you. Good luck with your game of people not participating or trying to actually find scum.

Don't start with the AtE bullshit at this point in time, please.

[Tammy]

Tammy: Please shoot me tonight. My alignment follows whoever tries to kill me during the night, and I would prefer being town over scum. Original strategy was to lurk like hell until my alignment was defined so I would get shot by vig over Mafia and wouldn't really make myself much of a threat to anyone else.

Ha! So I was right, you were playing off. I have no problem with this, as you were one of the top contenders for my shot tonight anyway.

[Tammy]

Zdenek wasn't really that interesting to me when he was playing; I think that his followup on FuDuzn's game would be strange if he did it of his own fruition as scum, but then I noticed there was a long timestamp in between FuDuzn's #126 and Zdenek's #127, so that was sort of null. I really didn't like his vote on FuDuzn because it was a throwaway read and

Zdenek tends to care pretty deeply about his scumreads and tunnels the shit out of them, but here the attacking lacked the passion of normal Zdenek.

Exactly why I said I should be able to get a better read on zdenek based on that interaction, but he replaced out before I could.

TCS is also a scum as shit read, and it frustrates me that no one is willing to touch him/Empking because of Empking having information in his role PM about his existence in the game. Yes, I'm sure TCS's role has something to do with Empking's. But if he wanted him lynched, I'm fairly confident that Empking wouldn't be dancing with Tammy to the extent he currently is, fairly confident he wouldn't not give a shit about what TCS is doing as shown by him joining FuDuzn before TCS and other things.

I'm still down for a TCS lynch, especially since I believe you about your role and feel like I can trust your reads more now. I read through a town game of TCS' last night, and I'm not the best meta researcher person, but he just read differently than he does here.

[Tammy]

Avering: Tammy was in that game with you; she's also the sort of player to remember what you just outlined.

It's your assumption I hoped that someone in this game read that game and would notice my attitude was different and proclaim me real VIG due to it?

The use of 'hoped' there is completely insincere considering that you know Avering was in that game.

Please read my posts. If you would actually read my posts, you might have a better feel for my alignment. I have never played with "the avering". That's why I said in Post 465

well that narrows down who you main is. And if you are who I think you are you must default to me as scum when I'm town.

I had no idea until the avering made that post that he was an alt of someone who played in that game.

I realize that this messes with your confirmation bias and actually admitting your wrong is a difficult thing to do, but you are wrong.

This is preposterous. Now you get to tell me who makes sense as a partner to Patrick Bateman.

There's more evidence of you being a vig than you being Patrick Bateman. That's just begging the question.

Thank you for acknowledging that I'm a VIG. I appreciate that!

[Tammy]

Okay I can make nacho town, so that's what I'm going to do. I trust nacho, especially his:

Tammy: Please shoot me tonight. My alignment follows whoever tries to kill me during the night, and I would prefer being town over scum. Original strategy was to lurk like hell until my alignment was defined so I would get shot by vig over Mafia and wouldn't really make myself much of a threat to anyone else.

In the after game of invitational he mentioned that he wasn't all that enthused to draw scum again, so I believe him here when he says what his approach was and how he didn't want to end up being mafia. He sound freer right now, does that make sense? So I think he's telling the truth.

Since I trust nacho now, I trust his reads even more. And I'm going to take his word for empking. And if empking is town, he should back off, because he's barking up the wrong tree here too.

I don't know about rinin, but I still think TCS is scum.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: tcs

[Tammy]

Oh also, nachos role or unroll and requirements basically means that there is definitely one member of the mafia here. So my everyone might be town right now theory is most likely wrong.

[Tammy]

Oh also, nachos role or unroll and requirements basically means that there is definitely one member of the mafia here. So my everyone might be town right now theory is most likely wrong.

Please explain this, because I didn't understand any of it.

My theory after nacho talked about that one game where everyone thought they were town until day three when the neighbors were told they were the mafia was that everyone here thinks they're town right now and alignments would change in the future or due to an event. (part of why I didn't want to be distracted by my personal wincon)

But, if nacho is unaligned until someone targets him for the kill, then that theory is probably wrong. And there probably is an actual member or two of the mafia right now.

[Tammy]

Oh Hrm...I was thinking he would live. Nacho I don't want to kill you.

[Tammy]

[

There's more evidence of you being a

vig

than you being Patrick Bateman. That's just begging the question.

[

There's more evidence of you being a

vig

[/b]than you being Patrick Bateman. That's just begging the question.

[

There's more evidence of you being a

vig

than you being Patrick Bateman. That's just begging the question.

[Tammy]

Awe I feel like pouting for you empking.

You do realize Nacho's role makes it certain there's a vig in this game, and oh my I'm it.

So, sorry about your wrong read and your inability to admit when you're wrong.

[Tammy]

Votecount 1.20

Empking (2) - Arc, Riningear
FuDuzn (2) - FourTrouble, Empking
Riningear (2) - Serrapaladin, FuDuzn
The Central Scrutinizer (2) - Nachomamma8, Tammy
Whiskers (1) - PimHel
FourTrouble (1) - The Central Scrutinizer

Not Voting (2) - Whiskers, The Avering

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

---

You don't actually think that using the word 'vig' in a sentence is synonymous with "Tammy is a Vig". Your AtE tantrum means you're not getting lynched today. My hope is that when you fail to 'non-mafia'

You literally said "there is more evidence for you being a vig" I mean it's right there in black and white. You can hope whatever all you want. I'm town...that's a fact.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Awe I feel like pouting for you empking.

You do realize Nacho's role makes it certain there's a vig in this game

No it doesn't. If this was a role-madness theme game, or even a theme-flavoured theme game then maybe, but it isn't. Its a b game and there's nothing in Nacho's role suggesting a vig.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I know what my role pm says.

So, sorry about your wrong read and your inability to admit when you're wrong.

I can admit when I'm wrong, I had a mild town-read on you for most of the game (well a week in the middle). I admitted to myself that you were not town once you stopped scumhunting and started badgering. I then confirmed that with you inability to post anything remotely honest; other than when you knew Nacho knew about that Leprechaun game.

I've questioned people to try to determine their alignment. Part of the reason for that is "oh my gosh *gasp* my night actions matter".

Like for serious. No really, for serious? I don't even know right now if Nacho knows about the leprachaun game. Yes, he referenced it, but since both fuduzn and I have referenced it, there's no indication to me that nacho "knows" about the leprachaun game.

And I'm sorry to break this to you empking, you didn't confirm anything dishonest about me. I've told the truth here completely. It's your thing if you don't actually want to hunt for scum, not mine.

[Tammy]

There's more evidence of you being a vig

than you being Patrick Bateman. That's just begging the question.

In case you don't understand what I was referring to.

[Tammy]

Empking - what I'd your read on TCS/fourtrouble and serraoaladin?

[Tammy]

I know what my role pm says.

You make me want desperately to vote for you.

Then vote for me.

[Tammy]

Now, if we can play mafia rather than YouTube trolling, there's evidence for any hypothesis. The fact that you being Patrick Bateman is even less likely than you being a vig does not make it likely that you're a vig.

You have not been honest in this game. You have frequently played dumb. You have frequently played hysterical. You have frequently 'misinterpreted' on purpose, and yes you've frequently outright lied. You've been faking all game and my only hope is that you won't get to day three.

But the fact is. I am Patrick Bateman and I am a VIG.

I have been honest in this game. I don't think I've even been dumb in this game. I'm quite a fitz sometimes and frequently misunderstand this. I don't think I've done that once here. One night I let my emotions get away from me when I was stressed and flustered. I have not lied. I have not been fake. You don't want town to make it to day three?

Those are your interpretations but It does not mean you're accurate. If you are town, you need to take a step back. You are so far into the confirmation bias tunnel, there isn't even the tiniest glimmer of light.

But whatever, I'm not discussing this any further. It's not productive and is becoming nothing but a distraction. Its devolving into "no you". You are never going to get me to think my behavior is scum motivated when its not and you are never going to make me think im scum when i know im not. Nacho says your behavior makes you more likely town, so I'm just going to trust in that. If you are town here, you need to start looking for actual scum. You are wasting your time on me.

[Tammy]

THEN VOTE FOR ME AND LYNCH ME.

[Tammy]

Also whiskers, why are you trying to keep up the distraction? I tell Empking that our argument has devolved into "no you" "yes you" "nuh-uh" and it needs to end because it's not productive.

You walk in here, don't do anything of worth and try to prolong it.

That's scummy.

[Tammy]

I'm still down for a TCS lynch, especially since I believe you about your role and feel like I can trust your reads more now. I read through a town game of TCS' last night, and I'm not the best meta researcher person, but he just read differently than he does here.

What do you think of his push on Whiskers for being a Jester? Starting Jester paranoia and being happy with leaving someone alive who is scummy as fuck usually sets my scumdar off completely, but then #333 happened and I started doubting myself a little bit.

I don't follow? 333 was fuduzn saying that whiskers-jester wasn't a bad call.

I will admit to having doubts based on him talking about the VIG shot and placing himself in the possible VIG pool. But then I've seen people like bb and regfan suggest themselves for investigation or lynches before and it makes me wonder. I've never played with TCS before so I don't know if he's the type to go that route as scum.

What is your read on serrapaladin?

Also I just realized that nacho will be able to confirm arc as town. And if he's not town if either of them flips the next one is confirmed. And I really really doubt that arc would do this as scum.

But make sure not to lynch before nacho confirms it, so I know if I need to shoot him tonight or someone else.

[Tammy]

because I'd rather have a town win in this game than not,

WHY!? What the hell is it with everybody and wanting to be town? Do you think it's just more likely that Town will win? Do you figure that if you pick the side with more people (probably) on it, they'll like you more and not want to lynch you?? Like, really, I don't get the obsession with being town. If you're a 3rd party or unaligned, why do you want to become town as opposed to something else? If "God" seems like a town role to you, who cares? Why don't you want to kill it and leave the game with a win, townies-be-damned?

See this is why you and your role is a danger to town. Because you don't care who wins as long as you do. That is not a town mindset. Some people just prefer being town. I, for instance, hate playing scum. And I don't care about the personal one because it's the town one I like.

[Tammy]

So, those of you with a secondary town win condition, are you town? I didn't consider myself town, because my primary wincon wasn't explicitly town. It sounds like Arc, Tammy, for example, have similar setups.

Yes, it's town. My primary one isn't necessarily not town, I guess. I just am supposed to shoot one of two people, it doesn't say the alignment of those people though.

[Tammy]

I *think* rinin is town y'all.

[Tammy]

@Empking
If there’s a real vig, he can shoot scum-Tammy. Vig is the worst thing you can claim if you’re not a vig or SK.

Ding. Ding. Ding.

Which is why I wouldn't claim it.

[Tammy]

I don't follow? 333 was fuduzn saying that whiskers-jester wasn't a bad call.

The fact that someone agreed with moonlogic like that threw me off a bit; if he wasn't the only one thinking it, then it would mean that the jester observation was actually a sign of independent thought, and that would be terrifying.

Gotta admit jester was my first thought when whiskers claimed to not be town.

What is your read on serrapaladin?

I like serra for town. His contributions have been pretty solid compared to everything else going around this game, and I thought the immediate question to the mod in #310 was pretty genuine.

Eh. I've been growing a bit suspicious. A lot of what he offers is sideline, and I see him around and posting elsewhere but not here. He sounds calm and reasonable which makes me wonder. I mean I like that he stood up for me with my claim but I also know that I tend to just like people who do that and can put them in my blind spot.

[Tammy]

Does everyone know about god but me?

All I know is about huey lewis and the news

[Tammy]

I know that whiskers made fun of me earlier, and maybe it sounds superficial but here's what I thought about it. Nacho claims to have a role in which if he is targetted for the kill, he won't die, but will become the alignment of his target, so he asks me to target him to turn him town. Ard then goes, no wait, I'll do it because I had a dayvig. I just don't see Arc!scum setting himself up like that as scum because he's tying his alignment to Nacho's and basically becoming a friendly neighbor to Nacho.

Because they've basically become town to each other, or at least Arc to Nacho, they've pretty much guaranteed they won't make it to end game. Why would they? Which means they are far more likely to be town together.

So Whiskers can say that it's stupid, but whatevs. I already had Arc as a leaning town read on this, so I'm gonna trust that. I also believe Nacho's claim so gonna trust him on that too. And if Pimhel and Nacho say Empking is town, he's town too. I really doubt that Avering would have outed that he played in a game with me when I was an SK and played differently so that meant I was more likely town if he wasn't. There would be no benefit to that whatsoever and he could have easily just said that I sounded like scum so he's probs town too.

Okay so town are in Arc, Nacho, Empking, Pimhel, and Avering. Mehish town reads that could probs go either way are fuduzn, rinigear, fourtrouble. My possibly leaning scum reads are TCS and serrapaladin. Whiskers is just a wtf.

[Tammy]

Whiskers. My primary win condition doesn't allow me to shoot people

my role does

. All my personal win condition does is say if you shoot one of these two people you personally win. Those two people might not be in the game. One or both could be scum if they are. I've also said I don't want to know if they are in the game because I don't want to be distracted. This way I'm treating my personal win condition as if it doesn't exist. Is that clearer? Moving on.

The rest is you doing mafia 101 to look busy. Of course their roles might not work the way they're saying it does. Of course their alignments might not be what I believe it is. Of course it might change over the next few days. I'm choosing to believe this right now because I have no reason not to. I'll let you in on a little secret...your reads get to evolve in mafia. You can actually change your mind based on new information. I know it's rather startling isn't it?

[Tammy]

Votecount 1.26

Riningear (5) - Serrapaladin, FuDuzn, Arc, The Avering, FourTrouble
FourTrouble (4) - The Central Scrutinizer, Whiskers, PimHel, Riningear
The Central Scrutinizer (2) - Tammy, Nachomamma8
FuDuzn (1) - Empking

Not Voting (0)

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

---

Tammy, if you shoot this, I will cry.
Whiskers is not scum and if he's telling the truth, he can live longer than a lot of the people chilling in the thread right now.

I never had a big scum read on whiskers. He made the most sense to shoot though based on not really caring about the town wincon which makes him a danger to town.

...I currently would like to see what serrapaladin's head looks like on a stick though.

[Tammy]

Wait actually, do let me in on the logic behind your progression here? You've gone from not really mentioning me/townreading me to a full out scumread in a few days time without me really posting anything. I understand you being suspicious of my inactivity, but it doesn't make much sense for continued inactivity to lead to your scumread growing.

It came to me during a lunch meeting with cliff huxtable. You don't have to post something new for me to reevaluate my reads. Nacho, who I was leaning scum on, turned out o be more likely to be town. Empking who I was paranoid about turns out to be more likely town. In reevaluating, I realized that while I tend to like you when you're around, I completely forget anything about you when you're gone.

Relax though, it's not the strongest scum read in the world and I have no plans to shoot you. I mostly wanted to see your reaction/who would react to it.

[Tammy]

Metagaming as in metagaming the mod. I'm pretty sure that Jebus didn't literally change everyone's meta with his magic powers.

You win the thread.

[Tammy]

Like, as short as my "FT isn't giving a reason to lynch me, I think he's bandwagon" reason, if anything.

That's all.

Nothing complex, nothing we should have been making a big deal out of, takes about three minutes max.

Sometimes people just think others are scum. It's just about a feeling they get or don't get about their posts. It sucks I know, no matter what alignment you are, but sometimes you're never going to get a satisfying reason.

[Tammy]

The rest is you doing mafia 101 to look busy.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. See why I haven't put forth a great deal of effort to convince Nacho to convince you not to shoot me?

Why are you trying o deal with the middle man?

I'll let you in on a little secret...your reads get to evolve in mafia. You can actually change your mind based on new information. I know it's rather startling isn't it?

Fuck you.

You basically call me stupid and make fun of me for airing my current thoughts about an issue, because you thought I meant something was set in stone on day one of a mafia player, and can't take a snarky response. You know what they say about dishing it out don't you? >_>

[Tammy]

I'm exhausted. I'll finish catching up tomorrow after I sleep...er return some videotapes.

[Tammy]

Wow whiskers you got me you really got me. You are soooooo right. Every interpretation you had was soooooo correct. I did fhange the subject because you had me you just had me. I definitely wasnt pointing out that youre argument had little basis in reality. I'm nothing but a bullheaded blind faith believing person in a mafia game. And I'm dumb. Im nearly pants on head retarded I'm so dumb.

There now that I've said you're right and you're getting whatever validation you need, will you actually start contributing to the mafia game because this chest thumping you're doing right now isn't it. I'm not going to respond to you any more when you refuse to see the point I was making in the first place. Oh darlin since you've already shown that you can dish it out but can't take it, you might want to stop before you get ahead of yourself and see what a real insult looks like. You're minor leaguing it baby.

NOW PLAY THE DAMN GAME.

[Tammy]

Hold up, until we get better opinions:

VOTE: FourTrouble

Just to neutralize it until if/when someone else unvotes me. Keeping myself as the top lynch is a dumb idea.

This made me cringe, and town doesn't really think like that, but then again scum would be smarter than to mention it openly (I would hope). Need to read Rining again...

.

Why don't they? I've seen town proclaim that as long as they aren't lynched, they don't care who is. Especially someone as inexperienced as rinin.

[Tammy]

I can say this much, though. I know for certain a God is town.

God is town=none of his scumpartners are God.

It really is that easy.

You're not really putting a whole lot of thought into this game are you?

[Tammy]

Oh also with serrapaladin - if TCS comes back scum, I'm especially wary of serrapaladin. He keeps saying that TCS doesn't look especially townie or anything but he's wary to vote him because of the empking thing, which would be a perfect out for a partner.

Yes, I knw partner analysis is Bleh before a flip, but I'm noting this in the instance of...

[Tammy]

FourTroble's claim looks like a faolseclaim riffing off Arc to me. He's lent nothing to defend it, and it just seems weird that he hasn't loopholed his claimed post restriction.

Unvote
Vote: FourTrouble

Here is why we have to lynch FT today. If he's lying, then he's scum. If he's telling the truth, he could still be scum. And if he's telling the truth and he is scum, that highly calls in to question Arc's claim in my mind, as well as Nacho's clear.

So we have a lot to be gained by this I think, in addition to whatever other information we get from night actions.

I've got to say that I buy Nacho as town, and by association Arc. If they were gambitting with a creative use of a control the mod action then that would be impressive, but I don't think that's likely.

This.

[Tammy]

I'll play even though I think you're full of it.

R'hllor

a

The night is dark and full of terrors.

[Tammy]

VOTE: tcs

I'll try to sort through all the claim business layer, but I've got to return some video tapes.

[Tammy]

Whiskers: self-preservation isn't a scumtell per se, but voting someone you normally wouldn't so you aren't the leading wagon isn't particularly a townie mindset.

Yesss... not reading the game

awesome

.

I can't speak for Tammy's experience, but most inexperienced players I've met actively try to avoid lynching randomly to save their skin as town. The attitude that you're valuable enough to keep around over someone random only comes with experience and is even then not all THAT common. For example, if you look at stats about bodyguard ability usage, you'll find that almost all new players and most experience players use the ability every night.

That's dying at night though using the power role you were given. That's a completely different story than getting lynched. If you're up for a lynch, that's you over someone else who could be scum. I've seen town literally say, "I'll lynch anyone who isn't me". Heck, I'd probably lynch anyone who wasn't me in a game because they might not be town, but I know I am. (This is with the exception if I think my existence in a game will cause a distraction or potentially lose us the game in LyLo. That is the only time that I won't fight like hell to not be lynched as town.) So, that statement doesn't bother me at all, especially considering I tend to be far more self-preservationist when I'm town than when I'm scum.

[Tammy]

Although, particularly given the mass-unvote, FT is a close second. Still want to stay away from TCS, unless I see a strong argument for him being scum, even if Tammy notes that as an associative tell.

I note it as a possible associative tell. And it's not, there's not a strong argument for him being scum or you not thinking he's scum. But, you were doing the "I don't think he looks like town, but the empking thing makes me hesitate to vote him," which is just something to note.

[Tammy]

riningear - be careful about quoting a pm. It could get you modkilled. This one probably isn't too big a deal as it's two words, but doing anything other than paraphrasing could end up costing you.

That said, the wording on your pm "Protect God", if God is capitalized, would suggest you are to protect the Judeo-Christian God as that is the only god that is traditionally capitalized. All other gods use lower case letters.

[Tammy]

I'm not really here, but just checked in because of deadline.

I think it looks something like:

Votecount 1.30

FourTrouble (5) - Empking, The Central Scrutinizer, The Avering, Ringingear, Pimhel
Riningear (2) - Serrapaladin
The Central Scrutinizer (4) - Tammy, Nachomamma8, FourTrouble, Arc, Fuduzn
TheAvering (1) - Whiskers

Serrapaladin and Whiskers - you both suck btw.

Three people will have to move to TCS or two will have to move to FourTrouble.

[Tammy]

I have no idea.

I'll check back in in a few and move to FourTrouble I guess since that looks like the only lynch we'll be able to get today.

[Tammy]

Feh.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: FT

[Tammy]

I'm here and alive!

Whiskers, I didn't shoot you for three reasons:

Nacho didn't want me too.

Although Pimhel thought your posts at the end of the day seemed like you trying to get townies to work against each other, I didn't see it that way and thought your thoughts showed that you were trying to make sense of the game in a townie sense. Don't ask me what specifically right now, I'll go back later, my brain is about out of the ability to function and make sense at the moment. Maybe I can make sense tomorrow. (One summer semester is about to end while another one just started, I'm beyond frazzled.)

And my biggest scum read didn't get lynched in favor of someone I thought was most likely town. So, I went for TCS, I guess we'll wait for morning is over to see how that turned out.

[Tammy]

@Tammy
I'd like to hear that explanation. Because after everything that has been said by Whiskers, there has been 1 post that made me think that it could come from town. 1 *beep*ing post.

I'll look back tomorrow, when I'm sober and can function.

Pimhel - what's your read on Serrapaladin?

No, I don't have a third win condietion. I don't knwo where anyone got htat. I also don't know anythign about heaven. I do, however, know about business cards.

I'm also wondering why my kill was the only one. I didn't get an email ettnig me knwo that I was a serial killer today though, so at least that's nice.

I'm not even goin to pretend and the moment to understand whisikers win condition; I'll look at it tomorrow.

[Tammy]

Vote Whiskers

@Tammy
I'd like to hear that explanation. Because after everything that has been said by Whiskers, there has been 1 post that made me think that it could come from town. 1 *beep*ing post.

And Whiskers, I still want to hear who has mentioned that he has a third wincon besides you, with a quote to show it.

P.S. I know nothing about heaven.

Basically, I liked the thought behind Post 750 and somewhat of the suggestion of a mass claim though I didn't agree with either of the posts. It looked like he was trying to figure out the game. Looking back on it, it's not as thoughtful as I remember it being, but with how irritated I was with whiskers until that point, it probably looked better.

It doesn't really matter though because once FourTrouble flipped town and the other lynch was on TCS, I was going to shoot TCS regardless as he would have just been the focus for us today. And since he flipped survivor who lied about being a survivor even in the face of others claiming survivor type roles, I think it was a good shot anyway.

----------

I feel like there was something I wanted to look back at, but I can't remember it right now. Maybe tomorrow.

[Tammy]

Happy scumday Nacho!

[Tammy]

Unvote
Vote: Tammy

- I said there'd only be one kill and you'd still all drop it. :psychic:

So, what you are saying is that I am scum, who fake claimed vig as some sort of gambit? And that I did this knowing that if there was a vig out there he would shoot me last night? And that even if there wasn't a vig who didn't shoot me, I would know I was the only kill? And that even though I had said I was going to shoot whiskers, and no one but Nacho had voiced disapproval of that shot, I changed my mind and shot the person I was pushing as scum for giggles?



I need to re-read the thread but that probably won't happen for a couple of days.

[Tammy]

I mean I just think if I were taking refuge in audacity, which is basically what you're suggesting, I wouldn't be so half-assed about it. I imagine I'd have killed off a universal town read, which is my mo anyway, and claimed to have been blocked trying to kill whiskers. I can't imagine what benefit you think scum me derives from killing someone I had been pushing as scum the entire day, and who others believed was scum, whose lynch I could still be pushing today and who I'd be able to hide behind.

I just don't think you're thinking it through logically. Scum!me makes no sense.

[Tammy]

Are you sure you're thinking this through? I wish you were scum because then doubling down on a nonsensical position would make sense. But now it's getting even more far fetched. For one, I'm pretty sure as scum I would have had a better eye on how many away I was from being lynched in the first place, and wouldn't have claimed until I had to. What benefit would I derive from staving off my lynch for one day in the scenario I just presented and which you for some reason think is likely? When I'm run up as scum my first thought is how to keep my partners safe, not myself. Why wouldn't I fake claim doctor or cop...to t least try to draw the real one out?

Why would I as scum fake claiming VIG loudly proclaim I was going to kill whiskers if I obviously couldn't kill him anyway. Why would I then kill TCS? Whose being alive would have given me something to push today as a scum read? So that I could what exactly? Why wouldn't I kill someone who was a strong town presence so that my partners would have a better chance?

And sorry, I don't make suboptimal kill choices for a shaky wifom reward. The only way I'm scum is if Jebus lied to me in my role pm, but since I haven't gotten anything to the contrary I'm still town.

[Tammy]

If you can lead to lynching town D! and lead town lynches until yourself are lynched then that is "how to keep my partners safe, not myself". You had to strongly proclaim killing someone and would proclaim the one that would most allow you to survive the night during which, apparently, the rest of the town had their memories erased!

I'm assuming you thought TCS was a powerful town PR; persunably your team thought you saw a crumb or thought it was PR-protecting lurkage.

Are you kidding me? Here's a better story

This is just getting stupider and stupider and quite frankly I'm getting a little insulted that you think I'm pretty much the world's biggest moron. Gods, I want you to be scum so much just so this would make sense. My play has been completely transparent. If I were scum, I wouldn't have taken time from a party at deadline to make sure a lynch went through; I'd have love the frustration that caused today and used it to hide behind. Killing TCS last night would have been the world's stupidest move for me as scum. You can assume all you want, you're just making an ass out of yourself. In your delusional wtf world I killed the person I was pushing as scum so that I wouldn't have anyone to push today and would be left going hrm...the person who had a really good chance of getting lynched today? Are you serious? Because if you are, you've taken one too many hits from the crack pipe.

The simpler version and the only one that makes a lick of sense is the truth. I'm the vig who shot TCS last night because I had a scum read on him and he didn't get lynched in favor of a town read who hey look turned out to be town, so I figured FT was the counterwagon to scum TCS. Oh and hey check that out, he didn't even turn out to be town.

I can't see how in any universe that I would kill TCS as scum. Just not at all.

Pimhel and Nacho - Are you sure this is empking town? I don't have much experience with empking but I've never pegged him as delusional theory-crafting paranoid-townie before.

And now we've got The Avering drinking the wtf kool-aid. Avering who has lurked and done almost nothing in this game, so if he doesn't turn out to be town one day, and I agree he looked more likely to be town yesterday, we won't know because he'll just continue lurking, which he does as scum. Oh and hey Avering, why don't you tell me how many times you've gotten my alignment correct? Maybe one game when you call me scum, I'll actually be scum. This is not that game.

Oh and Avering - Are you a modified Survivor like TCS was?

Also, in case it gets buried in the ridiculous scenario above.

[Tammy]

hit enter by accident before actually finishing my thought.

Pimhel - What's your read on serrapaladin?

[Tammy]

I can't see how in any universe that I would kill TCS as scum. Just not at all.

You would if you thought he was a strong pro-town role. Yes, I know you were wrong about that It's not impossible for you to be wrong.

But how would I think that? Why would I think that? You're coming up with a scenario that is so completely implausible, I don't know how you're coming up with that.

And no, sorry, I don't always just kill people because they are town reads or I think they are. I kill strong town reads. I've left alive town roles before. Even left one alive all the way to LyLo once.

Sorry.

[Tammy]

Also, why would I choose him over the actual people who have discussed parts of their roles? Why wouldn't I kill one of them? Huh? And if I was so concerned about killing town roles, why wouldn't I have fake-claimed something that would actually draw out those roles as a counter-claim? Why fake-claim something that could either get me shot or outed. Like that makes no sense whatsoever.

Also, I knew TCS was Grilles because you got him to out himself page one. Grilles is not one of the people named in my personal win condition. If I thought I didn't have a chance to fulfill my scum win condition, why didn't I at least try to shoot for my personal win condition. Also, if I were scum, why wouldn't I want to fulfill my personal win condition. Why would I make it clear that I don't want people name claiming, so I don't feel distracted or obligated to fulfill that? It only makes sense for me as town.

I'm not stupid.

[Tammy]

There is not a chance in hell I fake claim vig as scum. Sorry. There's just not. I wouldn't take the chance of getting shot by a real vig if there was one. And I damn sure wouldn't do it knowing that my kill would be the only kill. Sorry. I just wouldn't. If I were going to fake-claim at all, I'd fake-claim a doctor or cop or tracker or something, not vig. Just wouldn't happen.

And, if in some weird parallel universe I did fake claim vig as scum, there's no chance in hell I kill TCS. Sorry there's just not.

None of that play makes sense from me as scum. It just doesn't. The only way you can actually truly believe that is to believe I'm a flipping moron. Which I'm not.

[Tammy]

There is not a chance in hell I fake claim vig as scum. Sorry. There's just not. I wouldn't take the chance of getting shot by a real vig if there was one. And I damn sure wouldn't do it knowing that my kill would be the only kill. Sorry. I just wouldn't. If I were going to fake-claim at all, I'd fake-claim a doctor or cop or tracker or something, not vig. Just wouldn't happen.

And, if in some weird parallel universe I did fake claim vig as scum, there's no chance in hell I kill TCS. Sorry there's just not.

None of that play makes sense from me as scum. It just doesn't. The only way you can actually truly believe that is to believe I'm a flipping moron. Which I'm not.

Yes or no question: If you were scum are all-but certain that TCS was a sane Cop would you have killed him?

Depends. If I had no means of stopping him. Yes. If I had a roleblocker on my team or something, maybe not.

But, if I thought there was a cop, I'd have fake claimed cop to draw the counter claim so I could be sure.

But you are asking hypotheticals to a situation that does not exist. I am not scum. I didn't think TCS was a power role. I thought he was scum, and I vigged him because I thought FT was the counter wagon to scum TCS.

Simple. As. That.

[Tammy]

Then you clearly have not been in or read many games with me. Yes, I call myself town when I'm town because it's the truth. Calling myself town when people are calling me scum does not get in the way of the scum hunting process, now you're just getting silly and you're overexaggerating again. And what does me considering you a town read have to do with anything? It makes more sense if I call myself town to someone I'm considering as town. I don't need to convince scum I'm town, they already know I am.

[Tammy]

Well I'm sorry that my inserting logic into your wtf theory is so confusing for you. Hopefully the rest of town still has their brain cells intact.

And that's a lie and a stretch. I am not simply asserting it repeatedly. I'm explaining to you why your scenario does not make sense. You're acting as if you came up with this rock solid scenario, and I went "no, I'm town" instead of breaking down why it doesn't make sense.

But, I'm done. This isn't productive and I have work to do. You are not going to convince me that I'm the scum I'm not, and apparently logic does nothing for you.

I really really really really really wish you were scum this game.

[Tammy]

Also, I'm considering you as town because two people I'm town reading say you are. This level of engagement in the game and this weird scenario do not strike me as what you would do as town, but hey what do I know.

[Tammy]

Well I'm sorry that my inserting logic into your wtf theory is so confusing for you. Hopefully the rest of town still has their brain cells intact.

Saying 'I'm not scum' isn't logic It's an assertion. Are your posts full of only that assertion? No, there are other baseless claims too.

Huh funny, I was viewing all of your posts as being baseless assertions because that's what they actually are.

Explaining to you why they don't make sense was what I was doing.

Now you're just mudslinging.

So, empking, did your team withhold their kill so you could make this baseless assertion of me being scum? Here's my problem with you empking. I don't think you're a moron, so for you to actually double down on a scenario that makes no flipping sense whatsoever, is really making me doubt you. I just don't see how if you are town, you actually don't at least consider what I'm saying. Instead you make up even more implausible scenario's and then you say all I'm doing is asserting I'm not scum, when what I'm doing is driving holes in your stupid ass theory.

I said I was done right? Okay, I'm done now.

[Tammy]

So, what it boils down to is you outguessing the mod. In a bastard game. In which we've been told not to outguess the mod. Mkay.

And nice way to misrep what happened Empking. That is not town behavior at all. I said I wouldn't kill TCS and I wouldn't. You asked me a yes or no question based on a hypothetical situation, and I answered. I didn't change my mind and say I might. I answered your fucking question based on a hypothetical situation. Gods I hope town sees what you're doing.

I KNOW FOR A FUCKING FACT THAT A FULL VIG WAS PUT IN THIS DAMN GAME, BECAUSE MY FLIPPING ROLE PM SAYS SO.

Stop trying to outguess the damn mod because that's my role, that's a fact, and there's nothing you can say to change it.

And your scenario is stupid. Hopefully someone else here is operating with brain cells.

[Tammy]

I'm actually getting to the point where I want to be fucking lynched.

[Tammy]

Seriously guys, are you sure this is empking town?

[Tammy]

And riddle me this empking. If I were scum fake claiming vig and were trying to protect myself through that claim, why are you alive? Why didn't I shoot you, and claim to have shot whiskers and oops must have been blocked. Because if you're going to claim I'm fucking stupid, why wouldn't I just go all the way dumb and hope people bought it.

[Tammy]

I don't know how to read empking. All I know is that he barely contributed to one game and he was town, but in a game here he was scum he contributed more. I thought he was scum at first, based partly on a theory that turned out to be stupid, then started thinking he was townish and when my town reads said he was town and they know this based on meta, I figured he was town.

I gt town paranoia. I've been there, Ive had my pet theories before which don't make sense. I don't peg empking as a player that falls into paranoia like tha so it's throwing me offt. And he's twisting things and leaving things out, which makes no sense for town at all. I just cannot see how he's missing my point and then refusing to see what I'm saying and reduce it to something that leaves out the crux of he rgument. I want desperately for him to be scum because the this would be him doing his job, but my town reads sy this is him as town so I'm left to contend with this stupid scenario and a refusal to actually listen to logic and what is actually plausible.

And if he's town his refusal to actually look for scum and to instead try to outguess the mod in a bastard game in which alignments can change will hurt town. He's so far down the rabbit hole there's no way for him to see light, they are a liability and so is the person they are lazer focusing on because the scum have a place to hide in the resulting distraction. Although the last couple times I was tunneled on like this it was by scum, so I just don't know what to think.

[Tammy]

Really getting bored by this Tammy/Emp thing. Don't think scumTammy would claim vig, and don't have a strong scumread on Emp, either. Still want to lynch Rining, really. Tammy still might be sk, but I'm not worried about that yet.

It's a bit surprising Emp anticipated the lack of kill except Tammy's, I guess.

Thank you!

There is something I'm wondering though. TCS died of hypothermia and a shot. I can't understand why mafia would kill him, but is it possible we both did? I thought that it was just flavor and that's how Grilles died in real life, but I just looked it up and he's still alive as far as I can tell.

(I still probably wouldn't fake claim vig as SK on day one unless there was no other avenue for me because it would pretty much ensure I wouldn't make it to endgame, but it's more likely that I would than as scum. And I can totally see where the SK suspicion would come from, especially with me being Patrick Bateman, so I'm not going to argue with you about that one. Just as a side note: I contemplated not even sending in a kill though because I was super paranoid that if I hit town I'd end up as an SK.)

[Tammy]

I just want to survive long enough to have a shot at my third wincon, but that really depends on if the Town minds having a layabout living in their house.
I am a schizophrenic townie, I get powers at the start of each Day, maybe at random? My third wincon in based on that. Today I have a modified roleblocking power, the use of which I have detailed (or tried to) above.

Then why don't you mind if your powers are leashed?

I don't understand the question.

I'll gladly be put on a leash, at least until I've figured out if I can still win or not. At such time as I realize I can no-longer win, I will stop cooperating.

If I complete my tertiary wincon

(or or I gain some new wincon and complete it),

I will gracefully allow you to lynch me

, and I will exit the game.

Huh?

Are you willing to be leashed or not?

I don't buy Whiskers' claiming in the bolded above either (if you complete your wincon you would leave the game) but I also don't buy Tammy-as-vig. Happy for either to be lynched.

Unvote

Actually one other thing, I need to be the hammer on any lynches from here on out.

Why do you have to be the hammer? I don't trust you. I trust that you were town yesterday, but I have no reason to believe you still are.

I have a running theory. I think all you survivor types are among the threats to town that just be eliminated for town to win.

So, are you a modified survivor like TCS?

[Tammy]

I flove that the person who is coming up with complicated scenarios that make no sense is actually trying to apply occams razor.

I know for a fact the simplest nd most accurate reason is mine.

And I did not lie. Mudsling more.

And start fuckign scumhunting.

[Tammy]

That's false. I didn't lie.

Hey nacho, you're supposed to be town now right?

Explain to the fish why he's a bag of hot air...thanks.

[Tammy]

I know for a fact the simplest nd most accurate reason is mine.

See this is a lie. You being town makes three assumption; you being scum makes on assumption (you didn't contest that) and one assumption is simpler than three assumptions.

You said you were going to kill QWhiskers. You deliberately didn't. That's a lie.

What didn't I contest? What huh? I have on contested every flipping stupid moronic dumb ass argument youve made.

So, empking do you ruin every game you're in?

[Tammy]

Why the fuck am I still arguing with someone who refuses to see logic.

This whiskers. This. Is why I want to be lynched. This will not stop. There is no chance in hell empking is ctually going to see logic in this game, and it's perfect for him if he's scum. No matter what I do or say this bulljit is going to follow me. You've got avering and empking literally refusing to do nything else, and it's going to stay that way until I'm gone.

And what further proof do you need than yesterday's lynch? I was pushing a non town lynch, but these fools refused to get on it in favor of a lynch on town. Can anyone guess what will happen today or tomorrow? Probably the same damn thing. That's why my lynch is a good idea because then maybe just maybe whoever is town can actually look for scum but it's almost definitely not going to happen while I'm alive. And I don't mind being the lynch if it will make people focus because I still win with the damn town.

[Tammy]

Votecount 2.3

Whiskers (2) - PimHel, Arc
Empking (1) - Riningear
Tammy (1) - Empking

Not Voting (7) - FuDuzn, Tammy, Nachomamma8, Serrapaladin, Whiskers, The Avering

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

---

I know for a fact the simplest nd most accurate reason is mine.

See this is a lie. You being town makes three assumption; you being scum makes on assumption (you didn't contest that) and one assumption is simpler than three assumptions.

You said you were going to kill QWhiskers. You deliberately didn't. That's a lie.

What didn't I contest? What huh?

That you being scum makes one assumption (thus is simpler) and that you being town make three assumptions (thus is complicated).

So, you've seen that your 'Keep voting me and I'll drop my town read of you' rhetoric has failed and you're going with 'you voting me is making the game unfun ' the choosing the most effective mask is not classic town behavior, it's classic scum behavior.

HOW ARE YOU GUYS SEEING THIS AS TOWN??????????????.

[Tammy]

VOTE: empking

If I believed in self voting as town I would. Lynch me today and then this ficker tomoorw when I flip town.

Kthnxbye

[Tammy]

Seriously I am sorry that is not town behavior. Not at all. Town has no reason to behave like empking is behaving. Own has no reason to literally stop scum hunting to tunnel and cause a distraction by coming up with the worlds most implausible theory and actually try to apply occams razor to his implausible theory. Scum has every reason to discredit me though and lie like he has.

But whatever lymch me please, this is distraction will stop, and then you cam look for actual scum. Start with empking.

[Tammy]

I know for a fact the simplest nd most accurate reason is mine.

See this is a lie. You being town makes three assumption; you being scum makes on assumption (you didn't contest that) and one assumption is simpler than three assumptions.

You said you were going to kill QWhiskers. You deliberately didn't. That's a lie.

What didn't I contest? What huh?

That you being scum makes one assumption (thus is simpler) and that you being town make three assumptions (thus is complicated).

So, you've seen that your 'Keep voting me and I'll drop my town read of you' rhetoric has failed and you're going with 'you voting me is making the game unfun ' the choosing the most effective mask is not classic town behavior, it's classic scum behavior.

And this is stupid, and if you were town you'd see that. There is only one assumption to make with me as VIG because it's the truth. You're the one positing wild assumptions that are several. That you're actually trying to claim your delusion is simpler than the truth is laughably bad and idiotic.

And your doubling down on your stupid ass theory is classic scum behavior.

[Tammy]

And what more proof do you guys need that there's something up with empking? There are two admitted potential ANTITOWN roles here. Is he analyzing that? No apparently he wants them around...thought TCS was town because he was indifferent to being lynched, as if that was a town tell, and was wrong. TCS lied and was not town, and how do we know that because of me thank you very much. Does he acknowledge that, no. He wants you to believe I lied when I didn't. If he were town he'd be analyzing what I said and what I did, but he's not. That is not own play I am orry.

[Tammy]

There's actually more wrong with empking. How does he have the presence of mind to think that arc/nacho wouldn't likely pull a gambit like they pulled as scum but has to come up with a convoluted theory tht makes me scum including out guessing the mod in a bastard game. I'd be able to buy his paranoid townie shtick if it was evenly applied, but rational thought in one area but not in another? Nope. Sorry.

[Tammy]

TCS was a Survivor. So what? Unlike you, I'm after lynching scum not lynching non-mafia Survivors.

I am analyzing what you say. Its just that the analysis of a person saying 'I'm town and I forbid you to suggest anything else' one thousand and twelve times is that the person is lying and is not town with scum motives for wanting to ban the discussion.

If you were actually town who thought I was tunneling then you wouldn't be repeating yourself over and over again since that's the best way of getting your attacker to repeat the same things over and over again as you continuously commit the same sins over and over again.

I have explained myself and why your theory does not make sense for me.
You are not analyzing what I say because you would not be oversimplifying it to this if you were. I've explained my thought process and how I actually think when scum and why your theories don't make sense and especially not for me.

Oh I didn't realize that when I am being attacked with wild theories I'm not supposed to defend myself. That's a load of crock. Oh if you were innocent you'd let me pummel you to the ground. It's your fault I'm attacking you, if you'd stop defending yourself, I wouldn't attack you any more.

Gods youre awful.

[Tammy]

There's actually more wrong with empking. How does he have the presence of mind to think that arc/nacho wouldn't likely pull a gambit like they pulled as scum but has to come up with a convoluted theory tht makes me scum including out guessing the mod in a bastard game. I'd be able to buy his paranoid townie shtick if it was evenly applied, but rational thought in one area but not in another? Nope. Sorry.

See this is you not being genuine. If you think the set up will be one that is unoutguessable because of the nature of this game then you are outguessing the mod! You're calling me ridiculous for outguessing the mod in the same breath you're trying to outguess the mod! I'm saying that the nature of the game makes a vig unlikely while you're saying that the nature of the game makes my logic invalid; those are both guesses on the nature of the game.

I also don't believe you genuinely think 'Tammy is a vig that killed TCS and the scum kill magically vanished' is simpler than 'Tammy is scum that killed TCS'. If you wanted to say this game was complicated then I could buy that, but you don't, you want to frankly deny reality. That's because you're scum and you've gotten into the habit of denial.

They re not fucking guesses. My role pm tells me what I am, like are you five?

Have you been reading my posts! No, really have you? I postulated that everyone thought they were town at one point. I've wondered if I hit town, would I become a serial killer.

I've haven't gotten into the habit of shit because I'm town. But whatever, lynch me ns when I flip town VIG just like I said I would, do town a favor ns toe or yourself the next day, I'd like for town to win thanks and you're just bloody awful

I'm done with you, you have moved on to full blown stupid and I need sleep.

[Tammy]

Whatever lynch me today. Lynch him tomorrow.

[Tammy]

They re not fucking guesses. My role pm tells me what I am, like are you five?

I was treating you as if you were town. Obviously, you know that you're not a Vig and when claiming vig you probably had the same belief of the likelihood of there being a vig in this game as I; a belief you were vindicated about. If you were town however then my guess that there isn't a vig and your guess that the set up cannot be guessed would be equally guessy.

Oh do I? Considering that my role pm says VIG who wins with the town, I don't have to guess shit about that.

You're making an implausible guess about what I would or wouldn't guess was in a setup. The last several games I was in had a VIG, so why wouldn't I assume one was here if I were cum fake claiming, and why wouldn't I fake Liam something that would out an actual role?

Have you been reading my posts! No, really have you? I postulated that everyone thought they were town at one point. I've wondered if I hit town, would I become a serial killer.

I've haven't gotten into the habit of shit because I'm town. But whatever, lynch me ns when I flip town VIG just like I said I would, do town a favor ns toe or yourself the next day, I'd like for town to win thanks and you're just bloody awful

I'm done with you, you have moved on to full blown stupid and I need sleep.

Out of curiosity, how may times how you done the exact same 'I'm done with you' AtE? It seems to be one of your goto stratagems, of which you have many.

I am good with lynching Tammy, and then celebrating that I caught scum while you muppets painted your nails.

Do go on *rests head on hands*. I'd love to hear more about what you *know* about my play. It's kind of a double edged sword though isn't it! If you actually knew anything about my play you'd have to admit I'm town here, so instead you have to Mudsling about things you have no knowledge about.

I also love that you attack me or defending myself and then attack me when I say I'm done. You're a champ there buddy.

I'm not going to fight my lynch. It is a good lynch. It will stop a distraction, but only scum will be celebrating cuz mr Bateman? We're flipping town. But you already know that.

[Tammy]

So I was thinking about this while swimming today, and I stand by what I said last night. Lynching me is the best choice for today. This distraction has gone on since yesterday and is not going to stop, and there is very little chance that town is going to figure out a way to work together. If it were a big game then maybe it wouldn't cause so much disruption, but with the state of the town as it is, it's just not going to happen. I mean look at yesterday, we couldn't agree on anything, we worked against each other and in some instances just antagonized each other instead of listening to what we were saying. Whiskers and serrapaladin left their votes on people who had no chance of getting lynched and even though we got an extra week, we almost no lynched. If it weren't for fuduzn and I showing up at deadline, it would have happened, which is completely ridiculous.

My flip will allow you to better evaluate empking, who I just can't figure out how is town at this point. I could totally buy that he was a paranoid townie coming up with an outlandish theory if it weren't for the way he behaved. I've had bad paranoid theories as town before, but I've also recognized when there are flaws in my theory. I don't see how he can be objective about the day one arc/nacho situation in oh he came to the same conclusion I already had and was mocked for but refuse accept why his theory is unlikely concerning me. And to make matters worse, and how I don't see it coming from town is that in order to continue to push his theory he had to resort to distorting, simplifying and outright lying about our interaction. I think the most awesome gem is attacking me for defending myself.

Anyway, not to get back to that back and forth but that's where I stand. Also I have to go before lylo anyway. Serrapaladin has already voiced concern over me being a serial killer. I'm not, nor do I imagine myself fake claiming VIG day one as one, but that's a suspicion I can see people having. I'm not going to have town lose in lylo because of paranoia I'm an sk if the mafia don't take me out.

I do think there's something to the survivor types being one of the threats we have to get rid of, but that's just a running theory of mine that could be wrong. And in that regard though I think avering is dangerous. There is no way you're going to be able to tell if his alignment changes because hell just continue lurking. So make sure you take care of that before lylo.

Still interested in pimhels read on serrapaladin.

[Tammy]

Serrapaladin - in the instructions, he said to name your favorite cheese in your first post for the vote to count.

[Tammy]

whoever is town can actually look for scum but it's almost definitely not going to happen while I'm alive. And I don't mind being the lynch if it will make people focus because I still win with the damn town.

Tammy? If you leave me alone, I'm going to kill you.

<3

[Tammy]

Oh I'm starting to think I was wrong on my Serrapaladin suspicions.

[Tammy]

Unless Avering knows Tammy is Hitler. Why does it matter if it's Tammy as opposed to Serra?

Tammy's fakeclaimed. Has Serra claimed?

You have to be living in a special dimension of delusion to think that's what's going on.

In this alternate universe, The Avering wouldn't be flaccidly going "I don't buy Tammy as vig" he'd know I was lying scum if he knew I was Hitler. He wouldn't be going I don't care which of Tammy or Whiskers goes. He'd have caught scum. He's not a stupid player.

And, of course he's suspicious of me. I'm Tammy. If he ever does think I'm town when I'm town, I'll probably have a heart attack.

I can guarantee you he doesn't have information I'm Hitler, because I'm who I claimed to be. And if he does claim I'm Hitler, he's a lying scumbag who will be speedlynched tomorrow once I flip Patrick Bateman.

Also, why, in your delusional world, do you think I would fake-claim a serial killer over Hitler? Why not just say I'm Hitler? I mean if I'm going to go absurd, why not go all the way? I could be Mother Theresa, the vig!

[Tammy]

Actually, those are rhetorical questions. I'm not interested in a diluting the thread with another distraction.

[Tammy]

I will give my info, it'd be good if Hitler would confirm/deny it so I can gauge the veracity of any further information I receive, since I'm

hoping

Whiskers' info is that Hitler is legit Town (otherwise Whiskers just royally screwed us out of a scumlynch, and should be lynched in his stead for great justice)

But, another rhetorical question mind you, you actually think it's possible this post comes from someone who knows I fakeclaimed Patrick Bateman and am Hitler...and that Hitler might be town?

Really?

[Tammy]

I also think it's pretty obvious who Hitler actually is.

[Tammy]

LOL...It was pretty obvious in post 925 and whiskers had mentioned Hitler before, so yeah.

Points to me for actually paying attention to the thread.

[Tammy]

THe fact tyhat TAmmy knows she speaking rubbish, thus why she's afraid of me responding yet still says it is very telling.

Tammy isn't HItler though unless she's scumbuddies with Whiskers.

[Tammy]

I never thought I'd say this, but I'm with the psycho here.

.

[Tammy]

Pimhel requested replacement here too.

I could see if Empking was just a paranoid townie who was stuck in confirmation bias, but the way he's twisting things to fit his agenda? I just don't see that coming from town. I have been confirmation bias before; I have been convinced I caught scum before, but I never tried to twist things or go as outrageous or flat out lie like he has.

[Tammy]

ITT Empking continues to distort, misrepresent and outright lie. I hope you all see what he's doing.

Urgh, and you're continuing the 'I found Tammy town' lie, she claimed for a reason because (collective) you did not find her town.

False. I never had more than three votes on me. I was not a top suspect as you try to proclaim nor was I run up and forced to claim as you tried to previously characterize. I made a mistake by thinking it took 5 to lynch.

TCS suspected me but removed his vote and said I wasn't a good day one lynch before any of that happened.

The Avering suspected me because I don't have a changeable role and figured I must be scum, which doesn't have anything to do with my play. Also, I'm Tammy and he is contractually obliged to find me suspect in every game we play. He then correctly concluded that my refusal to be leashed was an indication that I am town but then today remembered I'm Tammy, probably got hit with a fine for thinking I was town, and continued to abide by his contract.

You suspected me.

Ringingear suspected me because I'm active and aggressive or something. (This is probably an oversimplification of why she suspected me.)

That, my dear, is not the collective town suspecting me and running me up to claim and then changing their mind because of my claim. No one else said that I was their top suspect or that they were willing to lynch me. Fuduzn was cautious about me but that's about as far as that went. The majority of town did not express suspicions of me in the first place, so what it actually comes down to is people who didn't suspect me, or at least voice that, not suspecting me after my claim.

The fact that you need to lie and distort to make me look like scum is really pathetic.

[Tammy]

Her AtE made her look a lot worse, to me.

I get accused of this sometimes. I'm just saying what I think. It's not intentional, I sometimes get flustered when I'm suspected as town, and it's worse when I'm under stress anyway. It is partly responsible for my only mislynch though.

[Tammy]

TCS had me as A suspect, definitely not a top suspect...his top was FourTrouble.

Ringingear had me as A suspect along with you.

I cannot help the Avering deciding I'm scum because I don't have a specified changeable win condition. That has nothing to do with my play, and everything with him assuming what's true for him is true for everyone.

The Avering still suspects me today because I'm Tammy and so do you. Ringingear might suspect me too, but the way your categorizing this is completely false. The rest of town did not voice these same suspicions to just change their mind after I claimed. And IF I had actually counted correctly, I might never have had to claim.

The only person here to raise some doubts about my claim that is rational is Serrapaladin. I still don't see myself fakeclaiming vig as SK, but I can see people being worried about that. And if you were town, you wouldn't be resorting to lying and distorting.

[Tammy]

Anyone care to explain?

[Tammy]

Yes AV is the Avering.

And with all this craziness, *someone* still wants to outguess the mod?

I love how we have two now anti-town roles who care more about their personal win condition, and that's just OKAY. But, I make it clear that I don't even want to know your names because the only win condition I care about it my town win condition, and *someone* still actually wants to claim I'm somehow scum.

Maybe Nacho was onto something with Empking wanting me dead for his role.

Speaking of Nacho? Where the hell are you Nacho? You've been around and ignored this game for two days. I'm starting to worry about you!

[Tammy]

Every time someone outs their role in this thread, the entire focus shifts to that person for about twenty posts. For example. Yes, it is quite concerning that we have Patrick Bateman in our presence, but is Tammy scum? Why, in any universe or game, would a vigilante also be mafia? I even asked Jebus, he thought it was the dumbest fucking question he ever heard. Vigilante is third-party. End of story. If you can give a straightforward, better argument than Empking (who I still refuse to believe is town) that she isn't vigilante, then we can talk.
.

Vigilante isn't third party. I have a town win condition, which makes me town. I can just kill people at night.

Sometimes mafia is given a VIG kill that is extra to their mafia kill. Hasdfgas once used a dayvig kill on his mafia partner and sailed to victory on it. Chesskid tried to do a similar thing during team mafia last year. They're rare, but they're not unheard of.

[Tammy]

Sometimes mafia is given a VIG kill that is extra to their mafia kill. Hasdfgas once used a dayvig kill on his mafia partner and sailed to victory on it. Chesskid tried to do a similar thing during team mafia last year. They're rare, but they're not unheard of.

Ah, I've heard otherwise from others? Oh well. I was told that the vigilante role in general is implemented as third-party anti-town, so I'd really like to assume that you're being straight with us.

But the rest of my post still stands.

Some people have personal viewpoints that vigs are inherently antitown roles and they do tend to hit town more often than scum. It's still a typically town role, and if played carefully is not necessarily antitown. But that's a matter if viewpoint.

A serial killer is typically a third party antitown role, and maybe that's what you're thinking of. Serial killers don't care who they kill because they need to eliminate mafia and town. Whereas vigilantes are typically town who are trying to kill mafia at night. But vigilante is a typical fake claim for serial killer. It's not very smart because a vigilante can't hope to make it to endgame once claimed and it's tough to kill townies repeatedly and get by with it.

[Tammy]

Votecount 2.8

Empking (3) - Riningear, Tammy, Whiskers
Whiskers (2) - hp [leaves], Arc
Tammy (1) - Empking

Not Voting (4) - Nachomamma8, Serrapaladin, The Avering, FuDuzn

With 10 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

---

Ah, I see where you're going wrong.the people hat have confirmation bias are the ones that have been convinced that she's town after her half-hearted AtE. Who do you think is less willing to admit they're wrong? Somebody who misread a town player as scum, as one is liable to do every game when town, or people who were taken it like gullible fools by a silly put-on tantrum? Remember that before the tantrum Tammy was a top suspect; I don't need to convince the town that I right, I need to convince the town that its not embarrassing to admit they were right before Tammy dropped her bouncing AtE bombs.

The convincing bit to me was the vigilante claim that means that she's probably not scum unless she's going for a really, really stupid claim

And I'm not stupid. You don't know by play I'm town?

Speaking of Nacho? Where the hell are you Nacho? You've been around and ignored this game for two days. I'm starting to worry about you!

Tammy.
This game is getting boring

Getting? I'm waiting for you to do something though. Take this game by storm, get that surge you get sometimes and make a big play. But I'm standing in the rain on the wrong corner, huh?

[Tammy]

Avering - I didn't ignore it, I just didnt know what to say about it, and wanted to see what whiskers said and what you said. I still don't know what to say and need to think for a minute.

[Tammy]

Avering - Are you sure you will leave the game once your personal wincon is fulfilled?

Ringingear - You might have mentioned this already, but is your personal wincon still going? You were on the FT lynch yesterday, and you're supposed to keep God alive, right?

So, I was thinking about this during laps today, and before I go over what's been brought up since yesterday, I just want to stick this here so I can try to make sense of stuff:

Avering - Changeable town/survivor - personal win con KILL HITLER. Had a day kill and a name cop role.

Whiskers - Hitler - can't win with town, trying to win third win condition.

Arc - Needs to kill God for personal win condition. Had a day kill.

Ringingear - Needs to save God.

Tammy - Patrick Bateman, vig, personal win condition to kill Paul Allen or a hooker. Don't have a name cop.

I knew I wasn't the only one with a personal win condition specifically naming one other person.

What is interesting to me is the redirected thing, and I'd love it if Whiskers explained that. When I was considering vigging Whiskers last night and was open about it, there was no indication in his behavior that it wouldn't work.

Okay I'll be back in a little bit with my thoughts. I just needed to straighten out what we have so far in my head.

[Tammy]

Okay still want whiskers to explain the redirected thing.

And here's the thing. I kinda find it amusing how frustrated whiskers is about the option to let the Avering hammer whiskers tomorrow and fulfill his win condition after he mocked me and Arc for dismissing our personal win condition in favor of our town win condition.

And, part of me feels bad for whiskers, but then I think about my town win condition and my theory that one of the threats to town is those with an anti-town role. So the Avering, provided he one day becomes a survivor, would need to go and whiskers would need to go before end game too. So, if I were to think about this solely in the context of furthering my town win condition, if Avering does leave afterwards then it's taking out two potential threats for the price of one. But I also feel like this is really unfair because we'd be helping avering fulfill his personal win condition and then whiskers can't fulfill his. And even though whiskers has been frustrating, he's put in more time to the game than avering.

My other problem with this is if we set this aside for tomorrow, we're potentially losing two people and if we haven't found any mafia members yet this could royally screw us over. So, this is a worry.

And I'm kinda lost on the mafia. I really think that Empking is scum of some form because his push on me is not town at all. Suspecting me? Fine. Lying and misrepresenting the situation? No. That is not town. So, either he's mafia or he needs me dead for his personal win condition.

Beyond that, I'm kinda at a loss for suspects. I do believe Arc and Nacho are most likely town due to the thing yesterday, though I have some paranoia about Nacho, which is mainly due to him kinda checking out again and behaving the way he behaved when I suspected him in the first place. (I also still think it makes absolutely no sense for Empking to be able to recognize the unlikelihood of Arc and Nacho pulling a gambit to look like town, but is convinced I'm so stupid that I would fake claim vig as mafia. I think this makes it pretty clear he doesn't even really believe what he's spewing.)

I'm bummed that pimhel didn't answer my serrapaladin reads question. After Khan's game, he said that serra was really easy to read. And though he didn't go after serra here, he never gave him a town read. And he had posted after I had been asking people about their reads on Serra and after I said I wanted to see his head on a stick. He made sure to pop in and tell me empking was town, but didn't do the same for someone else he claimed was easy for him to read in another game. Also, I'm worried about my town read I gave him. He really did look town to me, but he also looked really town in Khan's game, so I'm not sure about my read there.

I keep on thinking that maybe everyone thinks they're town to some extent, but then if Nacho is telling the truth about his role, and I have no reason right now to disbelieve it, then there is a non-town killing role.

Buh...I really wish some people would talk more. Serra could talk more. Nacho could talk more. Ringingear could talk more. hpleaves could talk more.

[Tammy]

What am I supposed to explain? I don't fucking know why the day kill failed-- hell, I have no reason to believe his claim is true at all; to believe that there even

was

a daykill.
Every Day phase after the first, I get a power. I don't know if I keep old powers as I get a new one, or if they replace (I suppose I could ask Jebus about that).
My current power, I have already claimed. It is a compulsory roleblock on two players, a roleblock that will occur during the Day

tomorrow

, and it doesn't have that flavour anyway. I did not have anything to do with the supposed reflection of Avering's shot-- at least, not that I'm aware of. Maybe I have a hidden thingy. Or, just as likely, his shooting power has a hidden mechanic that causes him to fail. I don't know.

I don't fucking know, because I am part of the uninformed majority.

So, what? What the fuck do you want me to say, Tammy?

Why are you so hostile? No, really? How would I know what you know about how actions affect you? Supposedly a kill was attempted on you that failed, who else would I ask about that?

If you don't know, that's all you had to say.

[Tammy]

Tammy: Where have I lied?

You know where you have lied. Don't pretend like you don't. I'm also not going to continue cluttering up the thread with an argument with you. As I've already said, the distraction does nothing but give you and your scum buddies a place to hide. If you are somehow town, you need to actually start thinking.

And you know what?

If you don't want to listen to this game's me about how I wouldn't fake claim something outrageous as scum. Look at actual scum me here. In this game you will see me replace into a scum slot that had fakeclaimed watcher. I ended up winning the game only because someone misread there information from the mod which confirmed the existence of the phantom roleblocker I made up for not seeing what I couldn't have seen. In this post after the game you will see me talk about the complaints I sent to the mods about the watcher fake claim. And in this post you will see me tell my partner why I didn't claim to have watched him kill the person we killed because I thought it was too risky to and that I'm not great at scum and am only semi-competent the least lies I have to tell.

Now that was the second time I had won as scum, maybe the fifth time I've been scum overall. I haven't been scum since, and you want to claim that I jumped from a super careful scum player, who was upset at the position my predecessor put me in by fakeclaiming watcher, who is barely engaged, to some super ballsy mafia person who fake claims vigilante of all things? Yeah, no, sorry.

And, if you would actually read my posts pre-claim, it's super obvious I'm a vigilante.

So, now do you want to join those of us who are rationally thinking about the game? If you do happen to be town, you should. I just do not have the personality to fake claim vigilante as scum. I'm not super ballsy and I'm not stupid.

kthanks.

This stupidity should end now. Unless you're scum. Feel free to continue making it obvious if you are.

[Tammy]

Getting? I'm waiting for you to do something though. Take this game by storm, get that surge you get sometimes and make a big play. But I'm standing in the rain on the wrong corner, huh?

Help me. I'm convinced at this point that Empking is third party, Avering is third party, and Whiskers is third party.
Riningear is probably town, you're town, Arc's town.
That leaves serra, hp leaves, FuDuzn. None of those look even moderately close to the scum that Empking/Avering are acting like right now, and out of all of them I suspect FuDuzn and hp leaves most but that's because they've mostly been lurking and off the radar.

Well I agree with this and Empking is all to gleeful to try to create a distraction that people can lurk and hide behind.

I've started to suspect serra a bit less than I was yesterday, and I'm rethinking my pimhel/hpleaves town read. I followed Khan's game and I think his style is equally plausible for scum. And I do think that FuDuzn is playing up the frustration and confusion of today. (although I like that he called me town, but I'm sappy like that.)

[Tammy]

TCs may have been one of the most suspected person at the time, but it is far from likely that that would make it easier to lynch him after a Night to collect your thoughts. If he was onto her and some other members of her team, or if they thought he had a good PR themn I don't think 'was a last minute counterwagon' counts as a convincing reason to avoid killing him.

No offense to TCS, but he was playing like shit if he was town and I seriously, seriously doubt that Tammy would be afraid of him over me, you, serra, Arc...

[Tammy]

I don't think anybody's got great day play this game. If they thought they could take away the best night-threat then that's sensible. If they thought TCS was a night-kill frit SK then that's make a sensible kill for the scum team.

No one's gotten great day play because scum hasn't been lynched yet.
But there are still people who make greater threats than others.

Yes, and a suspected night power role is the foremost threat.

No.

Check out this game You'll see me killing strong town or people I thought I couldn't hide behind OVER roles that could potentially catch me simply because they were suspected by town. I don't go empty pr hunting in my night kills because you're just as likely to kill something lame; I kill threats...either threats to me or strong universal town reads.

[Tammy]

TAMMY HELP ME SORT OUT THESE OTHER PEOPLE PLEASE

I'LL START TOMORROW. I had a ridiculously long day and an interview. No ability to think tonight.

Well I agree with this and Empking is all to gleeful to try to create a distraction that people can lurk and hide behind.

It feels more like he's attacking you because he doesn't have a choice to do anything else. Which is weird because every other character who is a lyncher to someone else (you, Arc, Avering) has a kill for their target and Empking apparently doesn't. That's the thing that gives me pause and I have no idea why it does.

Maybe his personal win con is to act like a bullheaded irrational thinker and if he gets his target lynched, he wins! Maybe he's a straight up lyncher? I'm not a lyncher though, I only win if I kill Paul Allen or a hooker. It doesn't say anything about being on their lynch wagons, or like AVox suggested hammering his.

Well I agree with this and Empking is all to gleeful to try to create a distraction that people can lurk and hide behind.

It feels more like he's attacking you because he doesn't have a choice to do anything else. Which is weird because every other character who is a lyncher to someone else (you, Arc, Avering) has a kill for their target and Empking apparently doesn't. That's the thing that gives me pause and I have no idea why it does.

Read the game.
Tammy: You lie!
Me: Where?
Tammy: You know!

Tammy has had much more posts about me than I've heard about me. Somebody who claims vig where there's no evidence of there being a vig; Tammy's arguments against it all depend on her making the sole decision on who to kill and that's ridiculous.

I've already pointed out two instances in thread where you lied. Stop playing games.

Did you actually read what I posted about why it's near impossible I would fake claim vigilante as scum? Oh you didn't?

Oh, you know what? You've just pointed out why I'm not scum, thanks. I'll let your power of deduction realize where you realized I'm not scum.

HEY EMPKING!!!!!! YOU SHOULD CHECK OUT THE RULES!!!!!

-Don't try to outguess the mod - that's not how the game is supposed to be played. You'll guess wrong, anyways.

@Emp, I don't buy TammyScum based solely on the single kill given that there was dual kill flavour. (Has Tammy claimed a target?) Save Tammy for another day, let her prove herself.

Horrendous thought, are we sure there is actually even a scum faction, and it isn't just a bunch of town and third-party, all struggling to complete a variety of wincons? >_>

I killed TCS last night. I claimed that before morning broke.

I postulated that theory as well. But, if Nacho's telling the truth about his role, then there has to be a non-town killing role in the game.

[Tammy]

ITT Empking continues to lie, and people continue to not notice. I've made my thoughts on everyone clear, and he continues to gleefully continue a distraction that is allowing people to hide behind without doing anything. I've talked about my reads on people and interacted with people and been very open with my thoughts about people and the game. Empking isn't actually interested in anyone scumhunting though; he's more interested in a distraction.

If he were town, he'd at least acknowledge the things I've said. He wouldn't be lying and distorting to make things look bad.

But on the off chance he is town, this is going to be him when he realizes he wasted a lot of time and energy in being wrong:




Nacho - I'm around tonight if you are.

[Tammy]

I have on three different occasions, including that post you are responding to, pointed out your lies.

[Tammy]

Tammy

<------------------------------

Votes go here...please.

[Tammy]

Thank you.

[Tammy]

I'm not scum, but hold onto your little heart.

I'm tired of the distraction. I'm tired of the fact that Empking is a tunneling scummy lyncher who refuses to see anything and continues to spread lies. I'm tired of your hostility. Do you realize the amount of times you've cussed people out for no bloody reason at all? I just literally am tired of every time you post Whiskers. I'm tired of you cussing people out.

Like that post above? YESTERDAY, I told Nacho I would be here today. Sunday through Tuesdays happens to be shit times for me and mafia. I barely do anything. I said Nacho, I'll be here tomorrow. Today, I said Nacho I'm here tonight if you are. And you literally cuss me out for not doing anything? You're such a gem.

Empking is literally spamming the thread and not stopping with his tunnel which is causing others, namely the ones I most need to talk because they're the ones that I have the most question marks about, to hide. They've complained and refused to do anything with this game.

I said it last week, this distraction needs to stop. I tried showing Empking why I'm not likely to fake claim vig as mafia, and he keeps just dismissing all rational explanations about things. If me being lynched, stops this, so be it. I'm not going to stop defending myself against lies and accusations. And if he's not going to at least care about the game enough to stop flooding it with nonsense, remove me. You remove the distraction and town can focus.

[Tammy]

Don't really give a damn about this game at the moment. If nacho wants to come in here and hold my hand, I might come back here. Until then I have better things to do than get tunneled on and cussed out by you lot.

I might start caring about this game again, but no promises. If you want to speed lynch me in the meantime, that's fine too. I've given all my thoughts about the game and the people here as I think them already. Not much to update. If nacho wants to discuss things and sort people out, I'll probs do that. But other than that *shrug*

[Tammy]

I'll try to have some time Sunday.

Talk to me about hpleaves/pimhel if you have a chance.

[Tammy]

<discussion about whiskers/avering>

And I'm kinda lost on the mafia. I really think that Empking is scum of some form because his push on me is not town at all. Suspecting me? Fine. Lying and misrepresenting the situation? No. That is not town. So, either he's mafia or he needs me dead for his personal win condition.

Beyond that, I'm kinda at a loss for suspects. I do believe Arc and Nacho are most likely town due to the thing yesterday, though I have some paranoia about Nacho, which is mainly due to him kinda checking out again and behaving the way he behaved when I suspected him in the first place. (I also still think it makes absolutely no sense for Empking to be able to recognize the unlikelihood of Arc and Nacho pulling a gambit to look like town, but is convinced I'm so stupid that I would fake claim vig as mafia. I think this makes it pretty clear he doesn't even really believe what he's spewing.)

I'm bummed that pimhel didn't answer my serrapaladin reads question. After Khan's game, he said that serra was really easy to read. And though he didn't go after serra here, he never gave him a town read. And he had posted after I had been asking people about their reads on Serra and after I said I wanted to see his head on a stick. He made sure to pop in and tell me empking was town, but didn't do the same for someone else he claimed was easy for him to read in another game. Also, I'm worried about my town read I gave him. He really did look town to me, but he also looked really town in Khan's game, so I'm not sure about my read there.

I keep on thinking that maybe everyone thinks they're town to some extent, but then if Nacho is telling the truth about his role, and I have no reason right now to disbelieve it, then there is a non-town killing role.

Buh...I really wish some people would talk more. Serra could talk more. Nacho could talk more. Ringingear could talk more. hpleaves could talk more.

I don't think my thoughts have charged much from here. So here's where I'm at.

[Tammy]

I'm so busted. I definitely didn't tell Nacho what I'd like to discuss or repeat the thoughts of where I am. Also, I'll just have to admit that when I'm scum I'm so paralyzed about giving my thoughts about people I just wait and wait and wait. OH, wait, I don't? Hrm. I also tend to kill my only suspects so that the next day I can be all lost and shit. OH, wait, I don't? Hrm. I'm also completely incapable of making up a scum read when I'm scum. OH, wait, I'm not? Hrm.

I'm in the midst of scheduling travel preparations to travel cross country for an interview, so I'll be giving pretty minimal contribution until I get back home. Nacho, I will still be around Sunday evening if you are, and will have some time. Other than that I'll be researching and preparing for my interview and then traveling a good part of next week.

/can't wait for the empking pile on about this...can't say i care.

so

v/la until sunday the 30th

[Tammy]

It's a shame the tigers didn't eat whiskers hostility.

I don't really have a whole lot to say, still feel kinda lost. I do think it's bunk that Serra keeps promising to do something and never does. Anyway I'll get on when I have a chance this week.

[Tammy]

So people are checking the game, but can only post whether or not they're a jew.

I did have a bit of startling insight though.

I realized whiskers is role playing. He's hitler. No wonder he's filling the thread with so much hostility and ordering us to die. That's what I hope anyway. That much constant anger and hostility just isn't good.

Would really like to hear thoughts from Serra, hpleaves and fuduzn.

[Tammy]

That's not the type of thoughts I was hoping for >_<

[Tammy]

Yes, everyone if you don't vote Tammy and secure that mislynch, you will be considered scum!

I don't have anything to add considering the people whose thoughts I need to hear still aren't saying anything. My suspicion for Serra has grown again.

I'm still v/la but I'll check in from time to time.

[Tammy]

I really was Patrick Bateman the VIG. And I VIG killed serrapaladin last night.

Was anyone a hooker or Paul Allen. Was I the only person who was actually town?

[Tammy]

Lol! So if you guys really were lovers and no one protected serrapaladin, I would have fulfilled my personal wincon by offing the hooker, who also wasn't even town. That would have been cool

[Tammy]

I like you Tammy, I'd enjoy playing as town with you some time. Emp played his jester almost perfectly, and he did manage to bait you a bit, but otherwise your play was excellent.

I don't know how true the excellent play was but <3 thank you; I enjoyed playing with you too and that my vig last night would have hit mafia! Empking did bait me pretty well. I was telling empire after the game was abandoned that I now have a better idea of how to play a jester role.

[Tammy]

I was Gilles De Rais......and I was a child molester(my personal wincon was I was able to block someone's power at night and make their vote not count the next day, if this resulted in a child dying.......I won, grim I know. But was there any kids in this game?).

Tammy, I was town aligned as well.

And I targeted Nacho last Night. Dammit, this could have made for an interesting Day 3.

No doubt. I think that after I'd hit mafia, and you got rid of the other mafia's vote, it would have been interesting. I'm interested in who the mystery replacement was too. Also, I think i would have been more suspicious of Nacho had serra come back mafia; of course, can't tell this for sure but I'd like to think so

And whoa talk about the misaligned!

[Tammy]

So I was the Cult Leader...

I wasn't lying when I said I had to find God, but I had to recruit him, and that was the extent of my primary win goal.

And I totally knew that recruiting Whiskers was a good idea. I was going to recruit Tammy next, actually.

Shame this game didn't work out so well :C

Ha! Once whiskers said he was recruited, I knew it was you.