Mini 393- Vegas Showgirls- Game Over! Showgirls Win!

[Adele]

^^^At least one; 3-member masonries aren't unheard of in minis. MeMe can tell you about that.

Speaking of,

vote: MeMe

[Adele]

yeah,

Unvote, Vote: ubertimmy

. Too far too fast no reason = bad.

[Adele]

Absolutely nothing to do with any other games we've played together. No sir.

I play a lot of games, I have a bad memory, and the search function's down. I'll need a better hint than that.

[Adele]

...Oh, search function's back up. nm.

If you're going to act like scum in this game, expect me to respond appropriately.

[Adele]

heh. Cool votecount.

[Adele]

/reads previous page

Storm in a teacup.

[Adele]

Hellooooooo.

Um, the thread title makes me forget about this thread every other time I sign in: "Oh, those ones are in night, ignore them"... anyone else? just me then?

Get used to it. It's how this game works.

[Adele]

I am here.
Why somebody wanted to quickly kill Twito? And what kind of uber powerful role is this?

It's either a day-killer or a time-delay NK. I don't think we can draw conclusions about it yet though. Let's play tight, not wander around in the murky mud of speculation just yet. Good play "day" 1 usually seems to be about digging away til someone acts scummy, and forcing everyone to make a call on that player, so there's patterns to look at later.

[Adele]

tum-te-tum

I'll RL remind Aelyn if you'd like, Mari.

Lucresia, are you the same lass as is in Gossip on GL? Hi! It only took my a

few

weeks to catch onto that

This is my thrid unhelpful post in a row. That's not good. I'll do a reread tomorrow.

[Adele]

As for your thinking in 48 & 53 -- they included neither Adele

nor

me but I've now been labeled "stubborn" while Adele, who's kept her vote right where it's been for more than week, still escapes notice.

This is true. I'm still voting ubertimmy and will until he explains or apologises, or someone else does something awful. Also, his stated opinion that "Totem and Ogre are scum together, possibly Aelyn or JERRY as a partner" certainly hasn't helped his case from my perspective - perhaps if he explains why?

[Adele]

andy, everyone came down on ubertimmy when he thudded a fourth vote down on MeMe (for no reason whatsoever IIRC), which put her at lynch-2. How you read the thread and missed that, I have no idea.

[Adele]

Well, things are awfully quiet around here now - it's been 36 hours since the last post, nearly 48 since the last content.

I ought to mention that I never actually called Aelyn and shouted at him. Well, between the mod not confirming she's ok with it and him working when I'm free and me working when he's free, it just didn't happen. I just thought I ought to clarify that point - and the point that, according to Seol (who lives in the same city) he's got no connection atm.

In a couple of hours, I'll shout at him.

It's a real shame, in a way, because I joined this game to play with him (and MeMe, who I've been wanting to play with again for about a year now; Bugsy was so incredibly fanstastic - for me, not so much for her, heh).

evilandy, I'll chime in whenever it takes my fancy because I'm a pushy cow. Always have been, probably always will be. If that's going to get you into a strop, then I guess that's just my cross to bear. To date, no-one's managed to change my ways.

[Adele]

As far as I'm aware, Aelyn is putzing out of all his games. He has no access atm. Consider him putzed.

[Adele]

Nobody was supporting him - not even Adele, and she always thinks I'm scum

I don't know if "always" is an applicable qualifier to a single incident. We've only played together

once

; it'd be like be boasting "I always beat MeMe". Well, I got lucky once (overpowered town) and you acted like a belligerent moron once. I hardly see why you'd want to bring that up unless you really

are

angling for a "get out of jail free" card this time round. If so, stop. If and when I attack you, it's not rendered illogical by the fact that I've been on your lynch once before.

Grr. 3am is BAD time to annoy me.
...with... possibly entirely neutral frivolous and harmless comments...
But possibly NOT and I can't tell right now so I'll post anyway like a moron

[Adele]

Heads-up, I'm offline for the next 36-48 hours. Sorry.

[Adele]

Cant risk the identity theft. You understand.

No, I don't. More to the point, I don't think

you

do. There's real things you need to be aware of, and then there's petulance; like taking part in the "War against Terrorism" by reciting Power Ballads during the news.

Me, I'm like, "The Horror, people here can figure out who I am - what with me being the sister of other players an' all - The Horror". Seriously, though, how does this expose you to identity theft in ways that, say, eating in a diner or ever telling anyone your name doesn't? I'm just sayin', it's not like we give Mith our credit card details. If that's your excuse (and you're gonna tell me that you have a tattoo of a heart in a cage, which is like an

invite

to set a PI on your tail) expect my ridicule.

If, on the other hand, you said that to set the bar low on your logic in this game, I'm afraid it won't work. Even if you really believe that - even if you believe rainbows are made of candy floss - I'm gonna expect as much logic from what you say as everyone else.

ps. I'm not always this big of a bitch. It's directly correlated with the time in the am, as near as I can figure.

[Adele]

Yes, welcome WldHrtCgd08. Please ignore any rants from Adele. I'm not sure what her beef is. Maybe she has spent the last 2 years locked up and made to wear an orange boiler suit. Or maybe she like the rest of us is just locked in her own little mental cage and likes to rattle her bars every now and then to prove she is still alive.

Personally I think she is most likely the scum partner of Sailor Jerry.

That's a false dilemma; it's perfectly possible that all three are true

Mostly my beef was that it was five am and the world

really

should revolve around not letting me hear of peoples' foibles at that time. It's

just not fair

.

Back to sanity: Wld, I'm not accusing you of being scum. I'm saying that your identity theft comment (I'm also immune to humour at 5 am) was silly and I wouldn't use that as a reason to excuse other silliness.

If you're wondering why I'm vaguely sane now, it's because I'm up

at

5am this time, not up

til

5 am. Duh.

(Also )

[Adele]

Hum. On the FOS argument, I agree with Glork. We exist, of course, in a constant ambience of suspicion. FOS implies above-and-beyond, so to FoS everyone is nonsensical and petulant.

[Adele]

I'm probably scum in every game I'm in

*shrug* Probably

[Adele]

I’m having mixed reactions about this half of the post…

It's either a day-killer or a time-delay NK. I don't think we can draw conclusions about it yet though. Let's play tight, not wander around in the murky mud of speculation just yet.

I tended to agree with Adele here, when she posted this. Too much d1 speculation tends to detract from what should be our main focus: scum hunting. And so I’m really curious why you brought it up again… Is it genuine curiousity? Are you lacking in ideas on the subject yourself… or are you attempting to change the direction of conversation?

Correct, I'm trying to change the direction of conversation - I say as much in the post, and why. Speculation distracts from our core task ---> let's not speculate.

O/T: Wld, are you in Gossip Mafia on GL? I gotta wise up

Gah! More later, but I gotta slip away right now.

[Adele]

Sorry to be so generic, but the last few posts make sense to me.
/adds voice to chorus

[Adele]

Try harder, SJ. You expect everyone to post exactly why they suspect you, post attacks on other players too for parity, and all you have to do is say "oh yeah, that's not proof"? If you wanna defend yourself, you have everything you need right there in the thread - and it's not everyone

else's

job to trawl through and summarise it for you.

vote: Sailor Jerry

for hypocrisy.

[Adele]

If you wanna defend yourself, you have everything you need right there in the thread - and it's not everyone

else's

job to trawl through and summarise it for you.

I don't have any special desire to defend myself, in all honesty. I tend to find it easier to just claim.

So, you don't even care about what's good play, what's good for your team; you only want to follow the easy route? I'd recommend you look into other forums to play this game on. I hear they have lower standards elsewhere.

[Adele]

If we should back off someone because they straight-up tell us that they refuse to contribute (rather than, for example, lurking), what tactic do you think will be picked up by the scum? I can't trust someone who refuses to play the game, and I don't trust you. I believe that you're scum with a bad attitude.

[Adele]

above was aimed at SJ

[Adele]

WHOA. Just reread the page, and uh, Evilandy, what are you TALKING about? WldHrt votes totem... so you attack her for suspecting Sailor Jerry? I can KINDA see that you get that logic there, but.... it really sucks.

Wldcrd defends SJ. Wldcrd defends SJ. Tide turns harder against SJ, and suddenly Wldcrd is totally up for denouncing him... but not voting him. I agree with evilandy. SJ + Wldcrd makes a

lot

of sense to me... SJ + totem less so. I'm currently pretty sure that SJ's scum. Call it a hunch, call it the fact that he refuses to stop acting scummy on the grounds that it's not a scumtell for

him

to act scummy, and we should all be adjusting around his playstyle (which he can't explain the benefits of, like BJ or Fritz'd be able to).

[Adele]

I might be willing to get on a wld lynch.

[Adele]

Evilandy, Fluff,

gender cop

, shot Day 2

Hmm. The wording of that suggests to me that there may possibly be a second cop, searching for a different quality. If so, that'd mean 2 partial-cops and 2 masons at least... plus, probably, a doc (since that's the only reason I can really see to throw in a mafia RB). It may, of course, be just 1 partial-cop, 2 masons and a doc.

Either way, I think that's all the power roles that town's likely to get in a balanced game, so obviously doc shouldn't claim unless in dire peril, same goes for the mason... but if there

is

a second cop, I think they'd be the SK-hunter. If they think they have viable info, then it's useful to the town and not too huge a sacrifice for that cop to come out (since the act'll make him essentially vanilla and he won't be a particular danger to the mafia). Of course, again, that's unlikely. So, I think there won't be any power claims today. That's my guess.

Sorry that this post was setup-guessing. I'll start looking for associations asap, and in the meantime, I'd really like to hear what everyone else thought -

especially

Spectrumvoid (welcome to the game, btw!)

[Adele]

The "Chippendale" status of SJ's made me think the same. I don't disagree - I meant that evilandy could detect mafia, not anti-town alignment. A partial cop (3 quarters).

I also agree that my speculation hasn't done me, personally, any good. And, looking at the player list, I don't think it's likely that anyone'd make the mistake of an unnecessary doc-claim... but I've seen stranger (and dumber) things in my time from experienced players.

[Adele]

Just that we know evilandy had pro-town inclinations. AND, I guess, since he put wld together with SJ and SJ was lynched and came up scum yesterday, he'd make a lot of sense as a target for a mafia group with wld in.

[Adele]

But I disagree that's more "relevant to the point" anyway. Here's the quote to which I referred...

Well, I wasn't really feeling the SJ lynch... but the idea of "pro-town" roleblockers always make me pause.

...since more than 75% of the time in mini games roleblockers

are

pro-town, it didn't make any sense that the idea of them would make anyone pause. And when you consider the fact that Amelia claimed not to be considering SJ scummy enough to lynch

until

his claim, well -- it still looks off to me.

Well, did Ameliaslay know that pro-town RBs are much more common? Scum RBs'd stick in the mind more and so you might just vaguely remember seeing one or two good RBs in minis but more bad RBs, you know? So it could easily have been an honest error.

[Adele]

My point is a psychology one. It

is

an easy mistake to make, because you remember what you notice more, and a scum rb probably affects the game more than a town rb, and is a bigger proportion of his group. I'd be happy to believe it was a genuine error, anyway, too.

[Adele]

WHOA. Just reread the page, and uh, Evilandy, what are you TALKING about? WldHrt votes totem... so you attack her for suspecting Sailor Jerry? I can KINDA see that you get that logic there, but.... it really sucks.

Wldcrd defends SJ. Wldcrd defends SJ. Tide turns harder against SJ, and suddenly Wldcrd is totally up for denouncing him... but not voting him. I agree with evilandy. SJ + Wldcrd makes a

lot

of sense to me...

It's been a week since the thread came back up. I'm pretty sure this is the play for today.

Vote: WldHrtCgd08

(That puts her at lynch-2)

[Adele]

/curtsies

[Adele]

Great. Dammit. So, what, do we sit around waiting, or do we move for a replacement? I bet if I hunted hard enough, I could find someone who'd replace her but stand back down if and when she returned...

[Adele]

I'll jump on every player on the site's back and make 'em give me a piggy-back ride 'til one of 'em joins :D:D:D

[Adele]

*does a little dance*
- I rule - I rule - I rule - I rule -

sorry.

Shall we ask AndrewS for a claim?

[Adele]

I'm hoping that there's another doc in this game so that I'm not nightkilled.

Would we have two Doctors? Unlikely I think. Seems like your making a defence for when you don't get killed as a Doc claim would expect at night. I think it's bullshit to be honest

Really? I read it more as laying the ground for when the real doc counterclaimed (which he/she shouldn't, obv).

[Adele]

Are you sure? That's what I'd think if it was pro-town, but isn't that a broken role to give to a scumster?

[Adele]

It's the same guy/team that killed Twito obv. Not a modkill. Is it possible that Glork's been framed?

Then why not also frame Twito? I think Glork was scum, so we're doing pretty well for the day.

[Adele]

Quite frankly, I've claimed and I can't defend myself against the actions of another player. I have no idea what she was thinking. Therefore, I have nothing else to say.

Ouch. I hold replacements accountable for their predecessor's actions (except lurking). Why replace in if you can't shoot a defence from the hip?

Oh yeah... because I asked you to. Well, sorry. You did me, fellow scummer (in forum terms ) a favour; doesn't change what I require of you in-game.

[Adele]

theopor, are you accusing Amelia of being SK or mafia?

I think that's we're probably down to just a single killer -- daytime SK -- and that there were no deaths last night because (s)he

can't

kill at night.

Yes, but the SK would probably have wanted to keep a goon around as long as possible, to reduce the number of days (s)he has to survive...

Although, of course, the SK would have to guess who the scum were, like everyone else (but then again, we did guess correctly last night).

We therefore

may

be able to look at yesterday's behaviour... but there's a lot of "noise".

[Adele]

So we're back to square one. Dammit. I'll get onto a reread, but 14 pages... it'll take a little while.

[Adele]

Adele in particular has shown a lot of tells.

Such as?

[Adele]

Well, the town had masons, y'know? Or are you thinking there are still significant power roles out there?

[Adele]

Lively ain't it.

I presume (should never presume I know) that we have 1 Independent left and 4 Townies

by Independent, do you mean SK?

[Adele]

God, we're just all at a loss, aren't we? Shall we just go ahead with a massclaim (chainclaim format)?

[Adele]

I'm not gonna quote my pm here (what with that being against the rules and all), but

I'm Julie. I'm in the Jubilee routine - in fact I'm the newest member and I'm very nervous about messing it up. I can go round anyone's place in the day and convince them to watch me go through the routine and tell me if I make any mistakes.

It's not clear if we're meant to claim role powers or not, but I'm safe from NKs if I target pro-town players and die if I target scum; a type of hider, I guess.

[Adele]

totem

[Adele]

Adele, can you give us a target list?

I didn't use it; seemed safer to stay home. Didn't know who to trust.

[Adele]

We're waiting on amelia. It's been a long time. I don't know if this game stands a chance of starting back up until that's come through.

[Adele]

That's it, I'm gonna start soliciting using my sig. Girl last posted over a month ago, and we've been waiting specifically on her for over a week?

like, dude.

[Adele]

Sorry, it wasn't meant as a dig at you.

[Adele]

I find that really confusing and am suspicious as a rule of anyone who suggests their own lynch; wouldn't you prefer a no-lynch, Shanba?

I'll try again tomorrow to reread and decipher it all, but there do seem to be some assupmtions in there that seem of the "ok now, but when we hit LyLo we'll revisit the possibilities and panic" variety; am I happy with the idea of clearing someone on the basis of roleclaim alone? Roleclaims are great when it comes to godawful claims that show someone up to be scum; no so great for excellent claims that we're inclined to believe, because some people are good at fake-claiming or are given fake claims by the mod.

Anyway sorry for rambling I'll look at the plan in detail tomorrow.

Anyone feeling lovely, fancy summarising claims?

[Adele]

The fact she ignored Totem's direct question, maybe? That's never great.

Maybe because if we lynched her, then someone died at night (for example if I target theo and he's the SK) then it's a race to whether the lynch goes through in the morning before or after the daykill that'd lose the game the town. So, it'd be really unwise for me to target you tonight because if you

are

the SK then that's a town loss. So the plan doesn't work?

I'm going to put in an

objection to the plan

on that basis.

[Adele]

unless we no-lynch.

But as she herself says, if we no-lynch then the plan doesn't work, because we'd've not eliminated her from our enquiries. Unless she's hoping a good-faith indication that she'd be willing to be lynched would carry her through once we established that we can't

actually

lynch her.

Back to the drawing board: can anyone see a way to make this plan work, given that if day dawns tomorrow on a 3-man, then that might be the game over?

[Adele]

A no-vanilla game's not that unusual. A one-vanilla game, much less so, but it could be justified on the grounds that, no role's repeated (excepting masons obv). A two-vanilla game seems intuitively really odd; it's inelegant.

But if I go down that route, am I going from playing against the other players to playing against the mod?

[Adele]

I have a plan: ( Adele is killed when she hides with SK, right? do we know that?)
1. Adele says who she picks to hide with.
2. we all quickly vote nolynch
3a. If Adele is dead during the day we know who the SK is !
3b. If Adele is all right she quickly picks another target and before Sk strikes we all vote nolynch

... repeat. (there is no mafia left, each DAY we sleep safely. It's nights we need to be affraid)

the additionall benefit is each night I will look for work and maybe my ability will give us extra information.

That's why I've been interested how DELAYED sk works.
(oh, and if I were Sk I will definitely not be shareing this plan with you.)

Unless you knew you could tell the mod to daykill someone in the opening scene. Or if the mod gets a pm from the SK dated earlier than the lynch it backdates and the daykill goes through instead.

Even if neither of those are true, it sounds like you're betting the house on whether the SK is in the mod's timezone, or reacts quicker than the median player.

I'd rather

try

to win this game. This is like saying "playing the stockmarket's too hard; I'll just spend my life savings on lottery tickets"

[Adele]

Ho hum. Timmy's case is interesting, but I'm wary of voting based on flavour alone. Timmy, I notice earlier you said that Adele has shown a lot of tells. Could you list them for me?

Yes, actually, I'd ask the same.

Oh wait. I did.

Adele in particular has shown a lot of tells.

Such as?

Now then.

Adele, why won't you answer my questions?

Erm, what questions? Whether I'll die if I hide with the SK (yes)? What else? Which did I miss?

[quotew="ubertimmy"]Shanba is probably not the day SK, her flavor is real,[/quote]Distrusting someone becuase of their claim is sometimes okay. Trusting someone because their claim "makes sense" is a very foolish move. Myself, I find Shanba's claim singularly unconvincing - but then I've never seen this surivior show, as I'm British.

I'm sure of this, sure enough to stake the game on it.

So this means it's Theopor or Adele.

Because

you're

sure enough,

we're

meant to be, too? And, um remind me - when were you cleared exactly?

TONIGHT, Adele, you MUST target theo with your ability.

At this point, I have no intention of doing so.
Because your plan bites.
It assumes that you are town, that Shanba's town, and that theo isn't an SK that can put through an immedi-kill.
It bites, dude.

And I think you know it.

I think ubertimmy is the SK. I never did any research into everybodies' claims because I didn't have to make a claim up. I imagine once I've researched the matter as fully as ubertimmy has ("on a hunch"), I'll find some Julie connected to Jubilee, but I don't have ten hours to throw down the pan this week. If and when I do, I'll see if I can find out who Fluff, Laine and Candi Kane are, too.

Oh, and Totem, I'm in the same

show

as Amelia -

if

that claim's even true.

btw, everybody, my LOS:
ubertimmy - 66% and rising with every desperate and illogical attack
totem - 20% - enough that I'm not ready to vote for ubertimmy - yet.
Shanba - 10%. It's unlikely from my POV atm.

[Adele]

In the first quoted portion, I'm saying that I think it's unwise to get bogged down in an unsettleable question day one, when we could, instead, be productive. Oh noes! How scummy for me to suggest something that makes perfect sense.

In the second, you'll note that I'm saying that if anyone can detect the SK, they either have the SK and can get that person lynched, or can't and should stay safe under the radar. Not everyone's necessarily familiar with partial cops. It's a useful summary of what's probably going on, and I'm, again, suggesting we get the game moving rather than wait around for a game that won't or shouldn't come.

So in fact, both of the "tells" you point to helped make those days (marginally) more effective scumhunting days.

Out of curiosity, is the "crapload" of research the same as the research that took "about 3 minutes"? You seem to be adjusting implied workload to suit your changing argument.

As far as "confirmed" goes... I'll have to reread and do some research. But let's not forget that SKs usually have perks; when someone acts as scummy as uber, I'm very very hesitant to give out some free cards. I've seen too many games lost because someone's "obviously" confirmed but

actually

evil (for example Buffy as an SK).

And, Adele, you're in the same show AS ME. Not amelia, ME.

Isn't amelia your nameclaim? So, yes, I'm in the same show that you, amelia, claimed. And, doing some research, it looks like the routine that Theorpor's in "At Ballys" is also probably Jubilee
- that's the show Jubilee at the venue Ballys danced in by me, uber and theorpor, plus who knows how many of the dead players.

[Adele]

OIC you thoiught I meant

ameliaslay

. Next time don't fake-claim the same name as another player has

[Adele]

it's that last little jump of logic you tried to sneak in there that I'm not (nor have I ever been) 100% about.
You have, at least, a one-shot roleblock, therefore you're protown?
Hmm.

[Adele]

theorpor, we're in LyLo. We have a deadline, yes - for

13 days

from now. So why don't you want to discuss the best play further.

Gah, this is so frustrating. I'll do a reread and try to present the reasons why I'm not the SK, and try - again - to figure out who

is

(although don't go thinking I'm now best buds with uber, he's still on my list). It may take a few days because I

am

very busy, but please someone unvote me so I don't get quicklynched when it's neither necessary nor helpful.

[Adele]

theorpor, we're in LyLo.

Sorry,

potential

LyLo.

[Adele]

That mainly is that, Adele has been trying to throw dirt at him recently and me previously with the discussion about how many vanilla's are in the game. Timmy is pretty much confirmed in my eyes - he called out SJ, he blocked Totem, all stand up. Adele's claim is reasonable but her role doesn't add up, someone who dies if they hide with the serial killer, she still hasn't as far as I can see drawn up a list of night targets.

I stayed home, it was safer (and it worked). As for throwing dirt... I'm trying to figure out who's the SK. You seem more interested in finding someone vulnerable to jump on. Why on earth shouldn't I examine the validity of peopes' claims?

[Adele]

Seriously, though, how was I meant to stand a chance? A mass claim is inevitable before I could win and there was a relevant factor that I couldn't possibly have guessed, let alone come up with a fake claim for.