Mini 1397: War is Hell (Game Over)

[Zdenek]

Also, Kinetic, why did you want Xalxe to claim first?

[Zdenek]

But MattP claimed Duke.

[Zdenek]

Kinetic how was your read on Xalxe at all related to your role?

[Zdenek]

and which posts of Xalxe's are you talking about.

[Zdenek]

Posts of Xalxe's please.

[Zdenek]

Zdenek, why did you want my nameclaim?

To try to figure out why you posted those other people's names.

[Zdenek]

Vote: Kinetic

[Zdenek]

The only thing that bothers me about the claims is the fact that they both claimed their HP at all. I thought we'd pretty much decided to keep that secret. There's some scum motivation for Matt to have done it - to possibly get Xalxe to do it.

[Zdenek]

Kinetic does not get to not explain where his Ophan read on Xalxe came from.

[Zdenek]

MattP, Xalxe why did you claim your HP?

[Zdenek]

Here's a good question: What do I, as scum, have to gain by protecting someone I think is a Oph? Someone who can quite literally find the scum if they rage? Someone who was under suspicion, and if I hadn't intervened would have probably been lynched? I wouldn't have even needed to push Xalxe, it was all right fucking there. All I had to do was not do anything and he's dead.

Zd, answer.

To bolster a fake claim.

You've jumped around from hinting that your read on Xalxe is related to your role by attacking me for role fishing when I asked you about it, to denying that it's related to your role and saying that it's because of some posts that Xalxe made, and now going back to saying that it's related to your role. I don't believe this garbage. If you wanted to keep any of this hidden, when I asked the first time, you would not have accused me of role-fishing, which is tantamount to claiming your knowledge was role-related, and if you think that scum don't pick up on things like that you are fucking retarded.

[Zdenek]

So you're copying the actions of a scum read to bolster your own claim?

[Zdenek]

Kinetic, aside from me, who's scum if MattP is town?

[Zdenek]

I would get behind killing Tierce.

[Zdenek]

...So... you saved up all the brains for Author Mafia, and here we are back to the ADwD idiocy, Zdenek? Come on. You've played with me as Town twice now and still can't see it? Go read a scum game of mine and then get back to me.

I'm actually thinking a lot about Author Mafia where you were a pleasure to play with as opposed to this game where you made things difficult from early on.

You're a decent player and you're aware of your meta. I doubt that reading a scum game of yours will convince me that you are town.

[Zdenek]

The way that MattP's read on Quadz has developed since the Quadz wagon so closely matches my own that I doubt he is scum, and considering the wagon on him there is no way I will vote him.

[Zdenek]

Historically, this setup discourages bussing because of scum power loss with each death, since scum has done nothing since LLD died, and we've had 3 miskills, I'm betting that's the case in this game too. So yeah, sure scum can bus, but I don't think it's likely that's what LLD was doing.

Tierce, why are you saying that LLD attacking Matt early is alignment irrelevant, but also defending yourself citing LLD buddying you?

[Zdenek]

Vote: Quadz

[Zdenek]

I'm starting to think Zd is trying to derail it. I'm not moving my vote off Matt.

You see, if Matt/Zed went after Tierce or Xalxe after all their belly aching, I could maybe be convinced to look at one of those. But quadz is town. Vote stays where it is.

Seriously, he's not town.

[Zdenek]

So Xalxe's hurting at 3 votes? Can we kill him?

[Zdenek]

I'm starting to think Zd is trying to derail it. I'm not moving my vote off Matt.

You see, if Matt/Zed went after Tierce or Xalxe after all their belly aching, I could maybe be convinced to look at one of those. But quadz is town. Vote stays where it is.

Seriously, he's not town.

Just to be clear, he suggests that he thinks that MattP and I are scum buddies in post one, and then he's willing to sheep both of us onto a lynch. There is no way that's coming from town.

[Zdenek]

Just to be clear, he suggests that he thinks that MattP and I are scum buddies in post one, and then he's willing to sheep both of us onto a lynch. There is no way that's coming from town.

With 200 posts in-between, and when the first one was not definite suspicion. He said he

might

be willing to look into a case that was not on a definitive Townread and see if there was merit to it, and ends the second post saying he's still voting Matt. Don't be dense.

I think you're being irrationally forgiving with Kinetic.

[Zdenek]

HEAL: MattP

[Zdenek]

When Flay posts the next damage count, if MattP is alive, I'm healing him and rage dumping on Quadz.

[Zdenek]

HEAL: MattP
and rage dumping.

[Zdenek]

We are listening to me now.

Vote:Kinetic

[Zdenek]

Tierce, Qui, Xalxe, if you're town you'll help finish off Zed. Remember, Quadz was basically confirmed town, and the one who knew that best was Zed. They were in the same shoes and Zed killed him anyway. He has to be scum. There is no town motivation for that flip.

Kinetic thinks that his mechanics theory is so good that it should have convinced us that Quadz is town. For some reason I should have been more convinced than others. It looks like he's trying to argue that's because it clears me too, but that LOLZ.

Then he argues that because I didn't buy his theory, that it must be because I am scum, and in trying to argue that he's rejecting his own theory, which completely contradicts his view that I am scum for not buying his theory.

So yeah, this isn't town reasoning. It's scum grasping at straws.

[Zdenek]

Kinetic, the setup is closed, we don't know that scum's kill works the same as ours. If you believe that it does, then you should conclude that I am town and that we were dumb to kill to Quadz, not doing that implies that you don't actually believe your theory, so the idea that I should] be scum for not believing it is fucking stupid.

[Zdenek]

Someone vote Kinetic, so we can kill him.

[Zdenek]

Xalxe's town for sure.

[Zdenek]

I have different reasons than you.

[Zdenek]

In fact, your's went out the window when Xalxe didn't claim Ophan.

[Zdenek]

We need to mass claim. Tierce or Quilford goes first in her/his next post.

[Zdenek]

King Paimon, Fallen Seraph, 3/5 rage.

Kinetic go.

[Zdenek]

Only three points of my rage points were used to kill Quadz. I kept the unused points.

[Zdenek]

No, two. I just got one back.

[Zdenek]

What sort of demon are you?

[Zdenek]

I have no powers other than the ones listed in the sample PM.

Here's where I was at yesterday, and why I wanted a mass-claim and in particular for one of Tierce and Quilford to claim first.

I believe that KKB is town because of his claim and how the LLD lynch went down.

I decided that Xalxe was town because he said that we only had one PR, Kanye, and forgot that Kinetic was protected from PeregrineV's attacks earlier. I doubt that scum would have forgotten about that, and that they'd have been hunting that power-role. We still don't know why Kinetic was protected, but that doesn't change the fact that Xalxe's mistake was a town tell.

I know I didn't protect Kinetic, and Kinetic didn't understand why he wasn't hurt, so that left Quilford and Tierce tobe the protective role. I figured one of them was the protective role and the other would be scum. Tthat obviously didn't pan out.

So where I'm at now:

KKB is still most likely town.
Xalxe still town.
Quilford is my weakest town read.

Assuming two scum:
Tierce is scum.
Kinetic is scum.

Mod: could someone of one class of loyal demons, have powers not possessed by other members of the same class?

[Zdenek]

PeregrineV snarls and spits defiance, reeling with the blows but throwing back spite and venom in equal amounts to any of you. The problem is, he is outnumbered, knows it, and is impotent against his hate of the fact. His swipe at Kinetic breezes past without effect. When Tierce's next blow lands, he stumbles and utters "¢ҩ¢ʎᴤʉ¢ʎξԓ!" with a low and clear voice, then collapses to the ground in a bubbling, oily heap which bursts briefly into Stygian fire. The flames gutter low, and when the ooze burns away, only his sigil remains.

[Zdenek]

I don't think that KKB's play makes sense as third-party, since if that were the case he have painted a target on his back when he got LLD lynched. His play makes more sense as bussing, but I don't think that is what was happening. That's said, I'm still mildly concerned with about the fact that scum hasn't made a kill in so long.

Xalxe, who do you think that I'm scum with?
Quilford, do you think that KKB is scum with Xalxe?

[Zdenek]

Ok... the person I wanted to comment on my vote didn't, instead the two people who I didn't want to, did...

unvote

Thinking...

Oh good.

I'd just like to remind you that I meta'd Tierce on my own using my own links, not the ones she gave us, and decided this is Town!Tierce. They are, in fact, different.

What games did you look at and what differences would you say there are?

[Zdenek]

Although in a way it did. I don't believe Zed is serious in his suspicion of you. Either you are his scum partner or he's protecting Qui. If he had went on to you, I might have believed him town, or at the very least that you weren't his scum partner. His ignoring you... I'm not sure now. Its either you and Zed or Zed and Qui. Or, its possible its just Zed left and KKB is third party.

You are such obvious scum. Nothing that you do is genuine. Why in God's name would I follow you onto Tierce, when I've got highly likely town Kanye voting you? I might be suspicious of Tierce, and by PoE, my money'd be on her being scum at this point, but there are other possibilities, and you need to go; this stunt is all the more reason for that.

[Zdenek]

I have words but I'm in class now so yeah. the tl;dr is that if we do this right we should have it won (and if Kinetic gets off Tierce's ass).

You checked Tierce's meta and you should check mine. That way you can figure out that I town. It will help immensely.

[Zdenek]

Okay, so who do you think is scum?

[Zdenek]

Were you told that LLD raged?

[Zdenek]

Nothing that's not in the sample PM.
Already said that I think.

[Zdenek]

In fact, as far as I see it, Seraph was pretty much a scum claim in my book.

It's BS like this that is proof that Kinetic is scum.

[Zdenek]

SERIOUSLY TIERCE? KINETIC SCUM IS AS OBVIOUS AS IT GETS.

[Zdenek]

Xalxe, Jesus Christ.

KKB, Me, and Quilford scum over Kinetic and Tierce?

If you're town, fuck you. KKB could be scum, but it's highly unlikely. I'm obviously town. Quilford, is at least a reasonable bet for scum, but Kinetic is so obvious that the fact that you aren't seeing it is distressing.

Actually, WHY IN GOD'S NAME ARE YOU UNWILLING TO CHECK MY META? YOU CHECKED TIERCE'S.

[Zdenek]

Actually, WHY IN GOD'S NAME ARE YOU UNWILLING TO CHECK MY META? YOU CHECKED TIERCE'S.

I'm curious about how you have nothing to say about my meta unless pushed about it, and why you didn't push the issue when Xalxe didn't answer what games of mine he checked. Your lack of interest in the issue doesn't seem to follow your usual doggedness.

I still want Xalxe to answer, but that post of his pissed me off because I think that he's probably town, and if I'm right about that, odds are on him losing the game for the town if he gets the kills he wants.

As far as your meta goes, I think you're play here is different from your play in Author Mafia where you were generally proactive and pleasant, so unless someone can give me something concrete, I don't care too much about other's claims about your meta.

[Zdenek]

I have considered your play in ADWD. The main similarity that I've noticed is that in this game you are also failing to have suspects, which is why I haven't called you out on it in this game. However, in no way do I think that this particular similarity implies that you are town because not having suspects is a mistake that scum make, and it's an easy thing to fake.

[Zdenek]

Yoo hoo Xalxe, explain your meta read on Tierce.

[Zdenek]

Nice to see that Kinetic is still fearmongering.

[Zdenek]

Yoo hoo Xalxe, explain your meta read on Tierce.

It's a totally different tone to her posts.

Also, you keep bringing up Author Mafia. That's bad, don't do that. Instead, do something she wasn't playing a character in.

What games did you look at, what were the similarities and what were the differences?

[Zdenek]

Also, you keep bringing up Author Mafia. That's bad, don't do that. Instead, do something she wasn't playing a character in.

Posting in character should only hinder her ability to be proactive and cooperative, so if anything it's a better game to compare with, since posting as herself, these things should only get better.

[Zdenek]

This is from Sunday.

I'd just like to remind you that I meta'd Tierce on my own using my own links, not the ones she gave us, and decided this is Town!Tierce. They are, in fact, different.

[Zdenek]

Was Science Mafia the scum game you used?

[Zdenek]

I don't remember

.

Why?

I'm trying to figure out if she's town and whether you're full of shit. It would be helpful to know what games you looked at.

[Zdenek]

I'm really having a hard time buying this. Could you go and check? It's not that difficult.

[Zdenek]

The thing is that there is absolutely no town reason for you to be so cagey about this. On the other hand, as scum you'd want to avoid being called out on a fake read, and failing to provide the basis for your read prevents that.

[Zdenek]

Xalxe, Kinetic is obviously scum and you should ignore him.

[Zdenek]

Four days is not really a long time.

[Zdenek]

Xalxe, Kinetic is obviously scum and you should ignore him.

WHY?

Oh please. As if I haven't been over this and over this.

[Zdenek]

Kinetic is blathering. Vote him.

[Zdenek]

Tierce, I'm trying to avoid wall after wall, but since it bothers you . . .

[Zdenek]

btw heres a few quick reasons why kinetic is scum cus id like to get crackin on him being dead:
pushing zdenek who is pretty much conftown for being a seraph with no other seraph claimed

Zed was forced to claim early. It could very well be that the only Seraph is scum. I fail to see how a seraph claim is a conftown. In fact, as far as I see it, Seraph was pretty much a scum claim in my book. Add to the fact that Zed was locked into that claim for about 1000+ posts (yes, I knew Zed was a Seraph for a while, and that was part of the reason I re-evaluated a bunch of times), but the fact remains, he's been acting like scum!

maybe my remembering is wrong but im pretty posi. that he was not forced into claiming. in fact the earliest i can find in his iso or remember is that he needlessly bladed fate while everyone was trying to stack onto him. so exactly how does his claim lead you to think hes scum?

Zed was one of the first to claim in the "popcorn" claim, but as you correctly found, he "bladed" much earlier in the game, showing his hand that he was a Seraph. I picked up on that, and I'm not sure who else did, but it was obvious. Around that time is also when I started thinking that Zed was close to conftown for both that, and for the timing issue. I figured, if town had a Seraph, there was only one, and possibly could have gone for a mass claim to find any other Seraphs and would have been very OK with lynching any we found save Zed.

Here he explains why he thought that I was town.

However, the timing idea, as well as my other ideas, kind of went out the window when Yos (and eventually Matt) both flipped town.

Here he explains why he abandoned his timing theory. Notice, that he includes his (vague) other ideas in the list to justify him not using them later. First of all there is no reason for him to abandon all of his ideas, only the timing one was proved wrong. Secondly, he doesn't really abandon them - he continues to use the timing one to clear Quadz.

Zed was still strongly town in my book, but there were certainly things that might set me off and make me think he wasn't quite acting townie. I'm sure you can look through the game and find me waffling a lot on my Zed read. He played like scum, but he had lots of out of game things going for him that made me think he was town.

The cognitive dissonance in this part is asounding - Zdenek was strongly, but wasn't acting townie . . . . He played like scum. By the way, he'd also developed a theory at this point, Post 1691, that had me in the top scum group.

Now, in every previous WiH there has been at least one Seraph scum. I would strongly believe that if there is one here, its either Zed or they're hiding.

It's obviously a true statement that if there is a scum Seraph in the game that they are either hiding or it's me. That's not something that he'd strongly believe; it's a logically true statement.

Assuming Seraphs have 5 rage, which I think I'm pretty secure in believing, that leaves Myself, Zed, Qui, and I think Tierce also has 5 rage as possible Seraphs, assuming one of myself, Qui, or Tierce is lying about their role. At the same time, I don't actually think it is in the scums best interest to lie about their role. There could just as likely have been 2 or 3 seraphs in the game, and Flay could just as easily put two town Seraphs to make someone like me second guess it. Further, with the game so close, a player using the Seraph ability now that didn't claim it would instantly be lynched. It would be a no brainer.

This is an unnecessary section of his post. I have no idea why he bothered writing it.

Additionally, the way I see it, scum are probably very close to winning, depending on several things. They might only need one more bad lynch to win.

This could very well be true depending on how their rage accumulates, but it's irrelevant to my alignment, and he's fear mongering.

This is part of why I really strongly feel that Zed's tunneling me all game is extraordinarily suspicious. It makes perfect sense from his book as scum, but doesn't make sense as town.

Tunneling is not scummy, but whatever.

Frankly, I have played very town from what I can see.

The scummiest thing in the game was Kinetic pushing for Yos' lynch over LLD's when KKB claimed a guilty on her and while his case on MattP was better than his case on Yos, so no, his play's not been very town.

I can more see your movement on to me, it seems a lot more natural.

Sucking up.

Zed's has looked scummy as hell all game.

Contradicting his strong town read statement earlier, but we've been over that.

He has gone out of his way to attack anyone who has stuck by me, and protected those I've gone after. From PV (first Zed was after him, then Zed swapped to protecting him), to Yos (First Zed went after him, then when Yos was going to die, he swapped away from him),

My read on PV changed, LLD was a better lynch than Yos.

even his flip on Xalxe is incredibly suspect. He had Xalxe in his "sure was scum book" while I was saying he was town. As soon as Xalxe becomes one of the key players though, Zed's read flips again, now Xalxe is impeccably town. Ironically, his read flipped when I started to question my Xalxe town read.

Xalxe dropped what I think was a town-tell.

Zed's play has almost tit for tat been an exact opposite mirror of mine all game. That isn't a town game plan, that's obstructionist play, and scum play in my book. There are very few times I've found that Zed has done something independent of what I've done. Sure, I'm sure you can point to something, but it seems whenever he makes a play that matters it is because its the opposite of mine.

Of course I am not going to go along with the plans and lynches of someone who I think is scum.

And I strongly believe that this was even partially why void was killed. Back when he was killed there was a strong Me-Quadz-Void grouping. Void was killed by the scum, while Quadz was killed by Zed. I strongly suspect it was effectively done by the same party.

Trying to blame me for the Quadz kill is laughable. There were other people voting for him. Suggesting that it was the same party who killed Quadz as who killed Voided is fucking bizarre. His night-kill spec is also ridiculous.

I'm also thinking the scum probably have more rage than we can account for from "townies", but I don't know exactly how they might be able to store that or whatever. In that case, claiming Seraph and basically going 1:1 with Zed is probably a good scum play. But no one did that. It really leads me to believe that there is only one seraph in this game. And it is my opinion, with all of the rage, that Seraph would be much more likely to be scum than town.

Since the amount of rage within a class of angels can vary and angels could have simply had more rage than town, or even a different mechanism for killing, this is an irrationale conclusion for him to draw.

Because, both you wouldn't expect the one seraph to be scum, if there is only one, and because it doesn't make much sense for scum to fake claim at this point.

More illogical reasoning.

Lastly, Zed has been locked into that claim for a while. Even assuming he wanted to claim Cherub or Arel to hide more, he couldn't. It would be an instant scum claim.

For all those reasons I really think Zed is scum.

So?

Seriously, that's a long post of drivel.

[Zdenek]

btw heres a few quick reasons why kinetic is scum cus id like to get crackin on him being dead:
pushing zdenek who is pretty much conftown for being a seraph with no other seraph claimed

Zed was forced to claim early. It could very well be that the only Seraph is scum. I fail to see how a seraph claim is a conftown. In fact, as far as I see it, Seraph was pretty much a scum claim in my book. Add to the fact that Zed was locked into that claim for about 1000+ posts (yes, I knew Zed was a Seraph for a while, and that was part of the reason I re-evaluated a bunch of times), but the fact remains, he's been acting like scum!

maybe my remembering is wrong but im pretty posi. that he was not forced into claiming. in fact the earliest i can find in his iso or remember is that he needlessly bladed fate while everyone was trying to stack onto him. so exactly how does his claim lead you to think hes scum?

Zed was one of the first to claim in the "popcorn" claim, but as you correctly found, he "bladed" much earlier in the game, showing his hand that he was a Seraph. I picked up on that, and I'm not sure who else did, but it was obvious. Around that time is also when I started thinking that Zed was close to conftown for both that, and for the timing issue. I figured, if town had a Seraph, there was only one, and possibly could have gone for a mass claim to find any other Seraphs and would have been very OK with lynching any we found save Zed.

Here he explains why he thought that I was town.

However, the timing idea, as well as my other ideas, kind of went out the window when Yos (and eventually Matt) both flipped town.

Here he explains why he abandoned his timing theory. Notice, that he includes his (vague) other ideas in the list to justify him not using them later. First of all there is no reason for him to abandon all of his ideas, only the timing one was proved wrong. Secondly, he doesn't really abandon them - he continues to use the timing one to clear Quadz.

Zed was still strongly town in my book, but there were certainly things that might set me off and make me think he wasn't quite acting townie. I'm sure you can look through the game and find me waffling a lot on my Zed read. He played like scum, but he had lots of out of game things going for him that made me think he was town.

The cognitive dissonance in this part is asounding - Zdenek was strongly, but wasn't acting townie . . . . He played like scum. By the way, he'd also developed a theory at this point, Post 1691, that had me in the top scum group.

Now, in every previous WiH there has been at least one Seraph scum. I would strongly believe that if there is one here, its either Zed or they're hiding.

It's obviously a true statement that if there is a scum Seraph in the game that they are either hiding or it's me. That's not something that he'd strongly believe; it's a logically true statement.

Assuming Seraphs have 5 rage, which I think I'm pretty secure in believing, that leaves Myself, Zed, Qui, and I think Tierce also has 5 rage as possible Seraphs, assuming one of myself, Qui, or Tierce is lying about their role. At the same time, I don't actually think it is in the scums best interest to lie about their role. There could just as likely have been 2 or 3 seraphs in the game, and Flay could just as easily put two town Seraphs to make someone like me second guess it. Further, with the game so close, a player using the Seraph ability now that didn't claim it would instantly be lynched. It would be a no brainer.

This is an unnecessary section of his post. I have no idea why he bothered writing it.

Additionally, the way I see it, scum are probably very close to winning, depending on several things. They might only need one more bad lynch to win.

This could very well be true depending on how their rage accumulates, but it's irrelevant to my alignment, and he's fear mongering.

This is part of why I really strongly feel that Zed's tunneling me all game is extraordinarily suspicious. It makes perfect sense from his book as scum, but doesn't make sense as town.

Tunneling is not scummy, but whatever.

Frankly, I have played very town from what I can see.

The scummiest thing in the game was Kinetic pushing for Yos' lynch over LLD's when KKB claimed a guilty on her and while his case on MattP was better than his case on Yos, so no, his play's not been very town.

I can more see your movement on to me, it seems a lot more natural.

Sucking up.

Zed's has looked scummy as hell all game.

Contradicting his strong town read statement earlier, but we've been over that.

He has gone out of his way to attack anyone who has stuck by me, and protected those I've gone after. From PV (first Zed was after him, then Zed swapped to protecting him), to Yos (First Zed went after him, then when Yos was going to die, he swapped away from him),

My read on PV changed, LLD was a better lynch than Yos.

even his flip on Xalxe is incredibly suspect. He had Xalxe in his "sure was scum book" while I was saying he was town. As soon as Xalxe becomes one of the key players though, Zed's read flips again, now Xalxe is impeccably town. Ironically, his read flipped when I started to question my Xalxe town read.

Xalxe dropped what I think was a town-tell.

Zed's play has almost tit for tat been an exact opposite mirror of mine all game. That isn't a town game plan, that's obstructionist play, and scum play in my book. There are very few times I've found that Zed has done something independent of what I've done. Sure, I'm sure you can point to something, but it seems whenever he makes a play that matters it is because its the opposite of mine.

Of course I am not going to go along with the plans and lynches of someone who I think is scum.

And I strongly believe that this was even partially why void was killed. Back when he was killed there was a strong Me-Quadz-Void grouping. Void was killed by the scum, while Quadz was killed by Zed. I strongly suspect it was effectively done by the same party.

Trying to blame me for the Quadz kill is laughable. There were other people voting for him. Suggesting that it was the same party who killed Quadz as who killed Voided is fucking bizarre. His night-kill spec is also ridiculous.

I'm also thinking the scum probably have more rage than we can account for from "townies", but I don't know exactly how they might be able to store that or whatever. In that case, claiming Seraph and basically going 1:1 with Zed is probably a good scum play. But no one did that. It really leads me to believe that there is only one seraph in this game. And it is my opinion, with all of the rage, that Seraph would be much more likely to be scum than town.

Since the amount of rage within a class of angels can vary and angels could have simply had more rage than town, or even a different mechanism for killing, this is an irrationale conclusion for him to draw.

Because, both you wouldn't expect the one seraph to be scum, if there is only one, and because it doesn't make much sense for scum to fake claim at this point.

More illogical reasoning.

Lastly, Zed has been locked into that claim for a while. Even assuming he wanted to claim Cherub or Arel to hide more, he couldn't. It would be an instant scum claim.

For all those reasons I really think Zed is scum.

So?

Seriously, that's a long post of drivel.

[Zdenek]

What other actions?

[Zdenek]

How?

[Zdenek]

How is Kinetic conf-town at the moment?

[Zdenek]

I'm not.
He's not.

Your reasons for thinking that he's town are stupid.

[Zdenek]

a) you're scum
b) he's trying to win it for town

Hey Tierce, is Xalxe so dumb that he would actually think that these are legit reasons to think that Kinetic is town?

[Zdenek]

Hey Zdenek, why are you asking that of a scumread? A scumread that you are apparently unwilling to meta more thoroughly than you have, if nothing else to prove one (other) scumread wrong? Seriously, you are saying Kinetic and I are scum, and the way that post read reeks of calling Xalxe scum as well. WTF?

And obviously that post of Xalxe's was tongue-in-cheek, but points back to the fact that Kinetic has been trying to

actually

make plans for Town. Solid attempts at gamebreak are more likely to come from Town than from scum.

THE SCUMMIEST THING IN THE GAME IS KINETIC PUSHING THE YOS LYNCH OVER LLD'S WHO HE KINETIC HAD A CLAIMED GUILTY ON, AND OVER MATTP'S WHERE HIS CASE ON MATTP WAS STRONGER THAN HIS CASE ON YOSARIAN (BECAUSE THE CASE WAS THE SAME, AND HE HAD THE MATTP WAS LYING ABOUT THE TIMES OF HIS ATTACKS).

So, Kinetic was not presenting a solid argument to break the game.He was making BS arguments to get the lynches through that he wanted.

Xalxe should be answering my questions seriously. If he's not, then he needs to now.

As for you, you can wait to answer until Xalxe after Xalxe actually explains his conf-town read on Kinetic.

[Zdenek]

sorry WHO KKB HAD A CLAIMED GUILTY ON

[Zdenek]

I honestly don't even know what game we are playing at this point. Kinetics actions around the Yos lynch are so obviously scum motivated that the fact that we aren't killing hom is fucking beyond me.

[Zdenek]

Your my second choice for scum, so la dee da.

[Zdenek]

You should probably just vote Kinetic because he's so fucking obv. scum, and then we can kill him and sort out whether you are scum or bussing later.

[Zdenek]

scum bussing or town later.

I've been drinking - it's the super bowl.

[Zdenek]

Tierce, why do you think that town doesn't have an Ophan?

[Zdenek]

I mean practically the only function of a scum ophan is to catch the town ophan.

[Zdenek]

I'm not using your meta as a scum-tell. I just don't think that it's a good reason to think that you're town.

[Zdenek]

Because Flay is not stupid and it's

a Split Roles/Motives game

. I see no need for the Town to have X, Y or Z of

anything

.

So you think that the scum ophan is a non-sequiter?

[Zdenek]

...Have you ever read a scum game of mine?

Go on. I'll wait. There will be a quiz.

Nope.
I looked at your ISO in Science Mafia though.

[Zdenek]

The scum Ophan can detect Rage attacks. This is hardly useless, as it can be used to figure out who is depleted.

I strongly doubt that is what is going on.

[Zdenek]

Seriously. Go look at a scum game for a while. I am not at all proud of how bad my scum game is, and I wish this was false modesty.

Why don't you just tell me how your scum game here is different from your scum game in Science Mafia. There's basically no chance that I'll get to looking at it more that what I've done until Thursday.

[Zdenek]

Ya, sorry, your game here.

[Zdenek]

You can do whatever you want, but there's no chance that I'm going to look at a scum game of yours before Thursday.

I'd like to hear what you think the difference in your play are between this one and that one, but I'm pretty much okay with whatever information you want to provide.

[Zdenek]

Here's what's bugging me at the moment. You had GreyICE pegged as scum (at least partly) because of his over the top attack on ICEninja in Dresden Files. When I pointed out LLD's over the top attack on Peregrine in this game, you ignored me, and now when I'm trying to point out Kinetic's over the top attack on me, your ignoring that too. It's a scum tell that I know you've used in the past, but for some reason, in this game, you're not paying attention to it.

[Zdenek]

Anyway, I have to sleep now.

[Zdenek]

Tierce's change of read on me is inexplicable.

Kinetic is busy pushing to violate his own rules. I'd go find the quote, but you should probably just trust me.

[Zdenek]

Are you even playing Mafia?

[Zdenek]

I mean there's Quilford's case on Xalxe opportunistically deciding that PeregrineV is scum, and there's the fact that Xalxe is regarding you and conf. town for basically no reason. Then there's the fact that TIerce has been calling me town all game, and moves her vote to me for no reason at all, and neither of these things gives you a moments pause. It's bizarre Kinetic and if you're town, it makes absolutely no sense.

[Zdenek]

You had a scum read on Xalxe that's appeared to evaporate for no reason.

[Zdenek]

a) you're scum
b) he's trying to win it for town

Hey Tierce, is Xalxe so dumb that he would actually think that these are legit reasons to think that Kinetic is town?

Hey Zdenek, why are you asking that of a scumread? A scumread that you are apparently unwilling to meta more thoroughly than you have, if nothing else to prove one (other) scumread wrong? Seriously, you are saying Kinetic and I are scum, and the way that post read reeks of calling Xalxe scum as well. WTF?

And obviously that post of Xalxe's was tongue-in-cheek, but points back to the fact that Kinetic has been trying to

actually

make plans for Town. Solid attempts at gamebreak are more likely to come from Town than from scum.

[Zdenek]

"why are you asking me that of a scum read?"
"I wasn't calling Xalxe scum there."

What?

[Zdenek]

No Kinetic. I just that if you're town, you're a thoughtless fool.

[Zdenek]

"why are you asking me that of a scum read?"
"I wasn't calling Xalxe scum there."

What?

You were asking that of

me

, i.e. a scum read of yours.

I was asking because of your experience with Xalxe. That's not how I took your response.

[Zdenek]

There was follow up. I told Xalxe that I wanted him to answer seriously about why he had a conf town read on Kinetic.

[Zdenek]

Tierce, you've exhausted me in this game with your worthlessness, so I've tired to get you to talk about things, but forgive me if I don't have the energy to keep pushing.

[Zdenek]

You said that you thought Xalxe was being tongue in cheek, so I asked Xalxe to be serious. I don't understand the problem here.

[Zdenek]

Since I pretty easily could be wrong about Xalxe being town for forgetting about the fact that Kinetic wasn't hurt by Peregrine, and his play gives me no other reason to think that he's town, may as well get this show on the road.
HURT WITH A BLADE: Xalxe

[Zdenek]

Can you guys please force Kinetic to use up his rage to kill me? Since he's scum and all, you probably don't want him to have as much.

[Zdenek]

You're a clown.

[Zdenek]

What's your problem with 2866?

[Zdenek]

Tierce, do you seriously think that as scum, I would have been working against LLD's push on MattP and trying to push her as scum because of her case on him?

[Zdenek]

Because if you buy your NK spec argument, you should buy that one too.

[Zdenek]

Don't forget that you were trying to argue earlier that you couldn't be LLD's buddy because of her buddying with you.

[Zdenek]

We should kill Zed fast, but two of us need to hold onto our rage.

Seriously, how anyone sees Kinetic as town is beyond me.


Of course the rage damage to Xalxe was me. Fucking shocking I'm sure.

[Zdenek]

Kinetic, weren't you just unsure of KKB? Why do you trust him to hold on to his rage now?

[Zdenek]

I'd like it if you'd all post your suspects after I flip town.

[Zdenek]

Tierce, do you seriously think that as scum, I would have been working against LLD's push on MattP and trying to push her as scum because of her case on him?

Tierce, respond.

[Zdenek]

Kinetic, I've seen you online. If you can post to taunt me, you can reply to me too. When I flip town, who will your suspects be?

[Zdenek]

Look at the scum struggle. Its adorable. It now has scum reads on 4 of the 6 players in the game.

My question was about you. I think KKB is town.

[Zdenek]

I'm not flipping scum. Reply.

[Zdenek]

Xalxe was never conf-town. He forgot that you'd not been hurt when Peregrine attacked you. Maybe scum knows why that happened. He would if it was a scum role block rather than a protection, for instance. Perhaps there is something going on that we don't know.

[Zdenek]

Well ok.

Xalxe, when I flip town, who will you think the scum are?

[Zdenek]

Xalxe was town because if the hurt thing. Throw that out, there's no reason to think that he's town. Plus there's what Quilford had to say and the fact that he's refused to explain any of reads reasonably.

[Zdenek]

Well ok.

Xalxe, when I flip town, who will you think the scum are?

You won't, but in fairyland, the next one is kanye, and Quilford dies afterwards.

Is your reasoning for them being scum only based on PoE?

[Zdenek]

I haven't decided if I going to do that or not.

[Zdenek]

Well, kanye has refused to take a stand on either me OR you, and Quilford is attacking me, so at this point, no.

Why is attacking you scummy?

[Zdenek]

Nope.

Now, answer my question. Who's scum after I flip town?

[Zdenek]

Well, kanye has refused to take a stand on either me OR you, and Quilford is attacking me, so at this point, no.

Why is attacking you scummy?

you're fucking delusional. You're not just attacking him, you're

hurting

him. This went beyond just attacking, you said "I'm so sure you're scum, I am going to do permanent injury to you, and if I am town, risk the game on the fact that I'm right."

That's what he's doing to me, doesn't make him scum though, and besides when I said attacking, I meant hurting.

[Zdenek]

Well, kanye has refused to take a stand on either me OR you, and Quilford is attacking me, so at this point, no.

Why is attacking you scummy?

The sensation of knives slicing into my flesh, while somewhat pleasurable at first, quickly wore thin.

Also, I'm losing a lot of blood here and it's doing some funny things to my mental processes.

Xalxe, your reasoning is fucked.

[Zdenek]

Nope.

Now, answer my question. Who's scum after I flip town?

lol. no. make me scum.

Well, if the other town's people don't care, there's nothing I can do.

[Zdenek]

Oh Kinetic, you're such scum.

[Zdenek]

I don't expect you to agree with me.

[Zdenek]

ts more than that. You used the first hurt, while we were still discussing everything. If you had voted instead of just hurting, we could have still discussed things, that would have been the townie move. You jumped though, you flinched, you knew you might die, and as scum, you knew that if you did you lost. Town wouldn't think that way. Town would be OK with dying if it lead to finding scum.

If you are town, you made an even worse play. You took someone who was a town read not five pages ago, and basically said, if you're not scum, I'm committed to losing the game because I made the wrong decision.

It makes zero sense as town to hurt when you did, and all the sense in the world to hurt instead of vote as scum.

We all know you're scum now. Not even your buddy can protect you. No one will listen to you, because, even if by some stretch of the imagination you are town, you are the worst town player to have ever played mafia. Why in the hell would anyone with town interests at heart listen to what you have to say?

Kinetic, don't fucking pretend that you were discussing things at the time. You were ready to start hurting me, and before you had that four votes that you wanted earlier. This opportunistic change of heart is just another reason why you are scum.

As far as I am concerned, this game is in MYLO, and me getting killed loses it for the town. So no, i do not think that me dying is ok because it could lead to finding scum, I think that me dying loses the game for town. Xalxe has the votes, and while I could find one reason to think that he's town, I decided that it's not all that convincing, so I decided that he should die first, he's not my first choice, but so it goes.

[Zdenek]

Practically every post Kinetic makes is bs rhetoric or has a factual inaccuracy in it.
He's refusing to give reads on other people.
He's scum.

[Zdenek]

SInce I'm town, those reads are going to be useless soon.

[Zdenek]

I think KKB is town; since the LLD business, I have thought that he is very unlikely to be scum. The fact that you keep insinuating otherwise is garbage.

Tierce has a very good chance of being scum. I think that her meta defense of herself is busshit. The post of Empire that she gave basically points out that as town she presents thorough cases, and as scum she gives ones based on weak mafia theory. Well, she's not giving cases based on weak mafia theory in this game, but she's not giving them at all. Since her vote on me, she's been flailing for reasons to call me scum, and her avoidance of the question about her thinking that I am scum with LLD, while trying to undermine LLD's case on MattP speaks directly to the fact that she is not being thorough.

I've read Xalxe in ISO. His reads develop and chance with essentially no explanation. There's his scum read on Peregrine that developed out of thin air, he goes from calling Tierce scum to town, but ihe refuses to explain it - heebies about Tierce in 1355, want to vote her in 1604, various disagreements and whatnot with Tierce in seceral posts, out of the blue in 2517, Tiere is town, and he refuses to explain his new read. He says that it's based on meta, and refuses to point out what games he looked at. I don't buy it. Every other read he explains flippantly or gives a shitty reason for.

[Zdenek]

HOLY FUCK YOU LUNATIC.

1) It's insinuating that I ever thought different, not that you think differently about KKB.
2) You asked me for reads. I don't expect you to change your mind.
3) I care, I want you to flip, but since I can't convince anyone else that you're scum, I'm willing to look elsewhere.
4) I don't think that you're town.
5) There's clearly analysis behind my reads of Tierce and Xalxe, and you for that matter, but I don't expect you to acknowledge that.

[Zdenek]

Tierce, when I flip town, who's scum?

[Zdenek]

What the fuck is this?

[Zdenek]

I'm going to flip town. You're going to need to move your vote, you presumably reread the thread, since you went on and on about needing to do that. Who is scum, if I'm not?

[Zdenek]

Here's what's bothering me now. First of remember Kinetic after Peregrine hurt him, insisting that I was scummy for not accelerating Peregrin's death? I do. So by all rights if he thinks I am scum killing off town Xalxe, he should have raged to kill me, but he's not dong that.

I don't believe for one second that this is townKinetic letting me kill off a town read of his.

I also don't buy that it's scum Kinetic letting me kill off a buddy.

[Zdenek]

Kinetic is scum letting me kill a town-read.

[Zdenek]

I'm not in control of Zed apparently. -.-; Yup, that's right, I am the one in control of Zed's actions, forcing him to do what I tell him to do. Frankly, its an interesting gambit, right before Tierce and myself are supposed to hurt you, you buy some time for something, or you try and get me to waste my rage on you. I'm not exactly sure why you want me to do that, but I'm sure there is some scum explanation. I'll pass. I've got to leave for work, and when I get there I'll hurt you.

It's not waste if you're killing scum, and stopping scum from killing a town read.

[Zdenek]

Fuck it, no point in dragging this out.

HEAL: Xalxe

[Zdenek]

For the love of Satan kill Kinetic.

[Zdenek]

I don't think I have ever taken that much abuse in a game of mafia. Fuck that was horrible.

[Zdenek]

Kinetic was obviously scum the whole game. Fuck you.

[Zdenek]

That would be more convincing if you hadn't called everyone and their mother scum as well, Zdenek. You were the one Hurting Xalxe, after all, and that precipitated the loss.

Oh Tierce, don't try to pretend that this was some sort of shotgun set of scum reads of mine. Kinetic was obviously scum, and I begged people to read him, and no one listened.

[Zdenek]

I am so angry about this game. I should probably just keep my mouth shut.

[Zdenek]

I only see Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:40 pm and then Sun Dec 02, 2012 4:58 am. Maybe I missed one.