Mini 374 - Numbers Mafia, Game Over!

[RangeroftheNorth]

The problem with bandwagoning Mini Neo for lurking is his last post in this thread is his last post on the site. A prod might be in order, or we might ultimately need a replacement. I can easily see how Nightfall could have made that mistake. It's not often that you have to be worried about placing a fourth vote on page one. Not to come off as too defensive of him, but I think his accusors are generally going on nothing. Slightly more susbstantial nothing than the last bandwagon, but nothing nonetheless. I'm tired right now, and I'll do a more detailed read through tomorrow, and I might catch something more suspicious then, but right now there isn't much to go on. I don't buy into either the nightfall or Mini Neo bandwagons, and I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that the other votes are random. The quick bandwagons, are great for day one however. They're generating plenty of information that even if it isn't useful today, might be useful later.

[RangeroftheNorth]

Vote: SailorJerry

For being a werewolf in Dr. Who

Rofl nightfall

PS notice how people jumped on the nightfall bandwagon as well >_>

Based on the fact that this is Mini Neo's only post and contains nothing of substance.
Unvote.
Vote: Mini Neo

These are BrizzyBoi's two posts. Somehow, I smell a little bit of hipocrisy. Anyone else?

Sailor Jerry isn't much better. He has three posts, and doesn't actually include anything useful in any of them, but feels he is entitled to go lurker hunting. It's also interesting to note that so far he has changed his vote in every post. Possibly a coincidence, possibly his play style. (BlueSin has also changed his vote in every post. Not suspicious, but it is interesting.)

I'm going to go with

Vote: BrizzyBoi

FoS: Sailor Jerry

This might not be worth a vote later in the game, (although i really dislike hipocrisy) but at this point i think it's better than anything else we've got. Hopefully, this will inspire some discussion.

[RangeroftheNorth]

I motice that Sailor Jerry continues the pattern.

[RangeroftheNorth]

You have

one

vote. I wouldn't really call that a badwagon.

[RangeroftheNorth]

No worries. I'll just sit around and wait while you find crap reasons to vote me.

Apparently, you'll sit around and give us reasons to vote you.

But seriously, this game will move along much faster if I do it now. It never goes any other way, and it just gives scum a good place to hide.

There isn't any particular need to move the game along faster. More participation would be great, but there isn't any reason why we need to hurry to get things finished. We should work to fully resolve each issue before we go on to something else. Merely claiming isn't going to resolve the fact that you acted in a suspicious manner, and, when even a slight amount of pressure was put on you, became even more suspicious.

Then when we're done, we can go lurker hunting like I said in the first place.

I don't think that four pages into day one is neccesarily the best time to go lurker hunting. Even if we did, up until pressure was put on you, you were one of the worst offenders. Not

the

worst, but up there.

I still want to hear from Brizzy Boi. He is now late on his promised review, and didn't respond at all to my arguments. I'll leave my vote there for now, but Sailor Jerry is getting more and more suspicious.

[RangeroftheNorth]

Also,

Mod

could we get prod's on BlueSin, MiniNeo, and Maz Medias. None of them have posted in at least a week.

[RangeroftheNorth]

If we include Brizzy Boi as an active player, we are currently at 8. If we don't (and I'm not sure we should) we are at 7. That means we have to be unanimous in any decision to lynch. We need the rest of the players playing.

[RangeroftheNorth]

Sailor Jerry, I will never condone playstyle as an excuse for bad play. If you play in a way that is detrimental to the town, doing it over and over again doesn't make it all right. Instead of us lynching you until we realize that it's your playstyle, we should continue lynching you until you change. If we allow you to use playstyle as an excuse when you are pro-town, (if you are pro-town in this game) than you will be able to use playstyle as an excuse when you are scum. Allowing scum to play in a way that damages the town because it's "their playstyle" hurts the town's chances of winning and damages the game as a whole. If you are not willing to change your playstyle to one that helps the town, it is in the town's best interest to continue lynching you in every game you play in. Getting rid of dead weight that is detrimental to the town on day one is almost as useful and a lot easier than getting rid of scum, and sometimes, you will be mafia. That just gives the town an added benefit.

Whether or not it's your playstyle is irrelevant. If you act in a way that favors the scum, you should be lynched. Claiming (or threatening to claim) on day one with one vote favors the scum.

Unvote
Vote: Sailor Jerry

Brizzy Boi is being passively scummy. Sailor Jerry is being actively scummy. He gets my vote. I still want to here from Brizzy Boi (and the other lurkers) but Sailor Jerry has become my first priority.

[RangeroftheNorth]

Not if they are going to give the mafia information that helps them to win. I'm not sure that lynching a bad townie is the best play for winning an individual game, but it is definately a better metagame strategy than accepting that a player is allowed to help the mafia because it's his/her "playing style." I'm not completely sure that Sailor Jerry is mafia, but he's acting in a way that makes me think that he is, and I won't be too upset if when we lynch him, I find out that I'm wrong.

[RangeroftheNorth]

I didn't latch on to an easy target for a bandwagon. I pointed out the two people I found most suspicious. I voted for one, and FoSed the other. You had a huge over reaction to my post and interpreted it incorretly. Even when you were corrected, you left your vote on me. I voted for you because I found you by far the most suspicious player in the game. The only reason I didn't vote for you earlier was that I was still hoping my vote on Brizzy Boi would get a reaction. I decided that it was much more important to put my vote on someone I was highly suspicious of. You have played in a way that is very suspicious, and you aren't trying to help the town, but merely defer the bandwagon on yourself. The reason you are an easy bandwagon target is because you act like scum. There's still a chance that you aren't scum, but you have done nothing to convince me of that.

[RangeroftheNorth]

I'm not big on Ranger because of that "I'm okay with lynching bad town" comment, which to me is indicative of ulterior motivation.

It's true that I have an ulterior motivation, but it's to the game of mafia, not to any group in this game. I also think Sailor Jerry is the most likely person to be scum. If I didn't, I wouldn't be voting for him, but I wanted to explain why claiming that playing badly was his playstyle wasn't going to get him off the hook.

[RangeroftheNorth]

That's very nice, but I'd like to see some actual content from you.

[RangeroftheNorth]

I wanted to explain why claiming that playing badly was his playstyle wasn't going to get him off the hook.

That wasn't my claim.

No thanks. I think that in the long term it would be better to either give you a claim or let you lynch me. That way you can get used to the way I play, and you'll learn from your mistakes in the long run.

This right here is one example of where you said this. You didn't refer to your playstyle as bad, but anytime you refuse to justify your actions, and make no defense except a claim, it is bad for the town. If you are town, claiming gives more information to the scum. If your scum, you'll often have a safe claim, or some other way of knowing what to claim. Claiming doesn't prove innocence, but it can often help the scum, thus, refusing to anything but claim is a bad playstyle.

@Maz Medias: I think that allowing players to play in a way that is bad for the town because it's their playstyle is bad for the game of mafia in general. It allows players to act scummy, which makes the game more difficult for the town. Thus, I'm not going to accept playstyle as an excuse for scummy play.

[RangeroftheNorth]

I headed off my pointless bandwagon with a claim in the hope that we could go and find some scum instead of piling stupid lazy votes on me while scum hide in the background.

Firstly, claiming townie will almost never divert a bandwagon. It's a claim that is almost impossible to confirm, and one that isn't that useful to the town. It's too easy to claim to be a townie if you are scum and losing a townie is a lot better for the town than losing a power role. If you had a confirmable role such as a mason, a cop, a vig, or a role blocker, it would make a small amount of sense to claim, although it would make far more sense to wait until you were in serious jeopardy of being lynched, but claiming townie isn't going to get you off the hook. It should be a last resort after you tried every other defense you had.

Secondly, you say that the scum are hiding in the background, but the only person you have accused of being suspicious is me. You can't really have it both ways. I'm not hiding in the background. Do you have other people you think are scum who are hiding in the background? Why do you think I'm suspicious? How do you propose to get more information?

[RangeroftheNorth]

I'd point out scummy things in others, but there are none to point out.

Then why shouldn't we lynch you? If there is nothing scummy about anyone else, who should we lynch instead of you? I honestly think you are scum, and even if you make me less confident of that fact (which I don't see happening), if no one else is in the least bit scummy you are still the best lynch.

[quote="Sailor Jerry"I have pointed out before that you've failed to look for any other options, but I note that the policy does seem to be to completely ignore everything I say or to do the complete opposite. And that's just lazy...[/quote]
What other options are we ignoring exactly? If no one else looks scummy, then there are no other options. If we think you are scum, we should ignore or do the opposite of anything you say. It's not lazy, it's good play. If anyone is lazy, it's the person who can't be bothered to look for anything suspicious in anyone else even when his own ass is on the line.

You have to convince us not to lynch you, Sailor Jerry. You can do that either by convincing us that you'r not scum, or by convincing us that someone else is even scummier than you. So far, you haven't done either. Your best attempt at an argument was completely WIFOM, and you don't have any suspicions of anyone else. Give me one good reason not to lynch you.


---
Sorry for my inactivity over the last couple of days. My computer died and I have only now been able to get it running again. Since it's running, I should not have this problem again.

[RangeroftheNorth]

I'd wait for Primate to post, but any time after that, I wouldn't have a problem with someone hammering.