Mini 1392: Social Justice Mafia (Game Over)

[TheReverend]

Hi guys, best wishes to xvart.

It's going to take some time for me to catch up, so please forgive me if I'm a mere passenger through this mafiascum day.

[TheReverend]

Ok I've mostly up to date, and I've iso'd konowa and xvart, and I've got a couple of suspicions.

I'll start with a VOTE: malpasc

This is my third game here, both my others involved malp and he seems a lot different here. What particularly struck me as odd with malp was him pointing at pidgeon with a "meta case", but pidgeon seemed to me to be playing similarly to my last game, in which he was town with malp, and I was scum.

Based on my limited meta tells, I'd say pidgeon is town and malp is scum.

Also, saying "for real" when decalring V/LA, this I found unnatural.

Also suspicious of the zajnet slot, qwist, greygnarl and toogeloo, but there's no basis for this other than gut feel, and my gut often gets it wrong.

Strongest town read would be rufflig.

I'll try to find time to do some isos on everyone but I'm not promising, I'm at lylo in another game and that's going to take priority for the immediate future.

[TheReverend]

@TheRevrend. what makes you think AP is playing similarly to his town-self this game?

Talking a lot, pointing a lot of fingers, appears to be scumhunting. I don't know his scum meta, if he has a balanced game etc, but malp's meta attack on pidgeon seemed contrary to my view, and we're all three of us fresh from the same recently finished game. On the other hand, malp seems more aggressive in this game compared to my other two, where he was largely passive and more or less background.

I might be wrong, meta can often be a distraction and misleading. Different games have different flows, and people can be irl busier one game compared to the next, but right now it's all I've got to go on without spending many hours reading the thread thoroughly, and I just haven't the time for that.

[TheReverend]

What is malp doing different, Rev?

128, 171... pissy aggression. He seemed more laid back in our last game, even as under pressure miller. And the "meta case" on you. I might be wrong but he seems to stand out for me.

@greygnarl - konowa had no real scumreads? What about 441? He names zajnet, malp and xvart (now me), and gives reasoning. If he was selected for NK, this is likely the post that got him done.

[TheReverend]

I only looked at the last few posts of his ISO.

See now I'm town, and the first thing I do when town on a new day is iso the NK'ed guy and see what a now confirmed townie was thinking. You clearly didn't do this. You were even asked directly why you felt konowa was killed, and you still didn't bother to read his iso before answering. You're happy to just let the town speculate as to why he was killed, rather than involve yourself in trying to figure it out.

I think greygnarl is scum. Isn't this the guy who needs an extra vote to be lynched?

[TheReverend]

I think greygnarl is town. I also think he's lazy.

I also don't feel you are in any position to criticize a player on how much or little they have read considering you've stated you haven't read the whole thread thoroughly.

I think I'm in a perfect position to critisise greygnarl for not knowing who konowa felt was scummy, since I know this information, depsite me having not read the entire thread. I'm also lazy, but first thing I do when I find out who got NKed is try to figure out why that person was killed. Seems like he can't be bothered. I consider this a scumtell, but maybe he's just lazier than me.

[TheReverend]

But greygnarl, by your own admission you only read the last few posts of his iso. How can you expect to formulate any kind of opinion on the matter with such limited information?

It really feels you have no genuine interest in the konowa kill, like you're happy to merely dismiss is as a non-event. Reading through your iso, your posts are mostly one liners and vague attacks on serene, no walls or serious fos's. Can you please link your most recent completed town game? I want to see if you're lazy in your approach when town.

[TheReverend]

Ok forget that link greygnarl, I did some checking, looked at a couple of recent games, and there seems a clear difference between your town meta and scum meta. As scum, you're aggressive, as town, you're lazy. This game seems to fit your town meta.

Not sure I'm happy for greygnarl to make it to lylo, but that's hardly a concern right now. I stand down from my fos'ing of greygnarl. I think he's town.

[TheReverend]

As for meta tells, I play at another site with doublejd, and our last game there, he got me lynched based on meta. He was right, I was a wolf. I think with some people, myself clearly being one of them, meta is a killer tell. It's tough to play my aggressive style as scum. Note in my last game as scum, I wasn't particularly aggressive, I tried to post "reads" while not getting too much attention. I was happy to remain in the background while people like you and rob led the discussion. Compare that to my now completed open 448, where I was very aggressive, and didn't care if I was accused of being scum. Pidgeon, you were cheking my 448 game while playing 159 with me, so you obviously feel there might be something to gain through meta.

[TheReverend]

What? I never read anything of 448. And I certainly never commented on it.

I saw you lurking in the "who's online" list at the bottom on two occasions, and nearly NKed you in 149 as a result, paranoid you were gonna take me down on a meat case. But it's irrelevant, it has literally no bearing on this game, so it's not worth arguing over.

greygnarl, my concern for you being around at lylo has nothing to do with your effort and everything to do with you needing an extra lynch to die. If you're scum, I assume you win lylo by default.

[TheReverend]

149 was meant to be 159... damn numbers.

[TheReverend]

Hahahaha meat case, I just noticed that typo. Actual laugh out loud.

[TheReverend]

Oooooh it's me being a noob, I thought those names at the bottom browsing the forum were just browsing the thread, but they could be in any thread in that forum. Excuse me for being dumb.

[TheReverend]

I still kind of want to lynch AP because of his jumping around all day and general fishiness. People who think he's town only give reasons as being that he is active, which I don't understand as being plausible defenses for towniness. AP was all over the place yesterday while ignoring the elephant in the room on several topics, like SS's total troll behavior at the end of the day which was a HUGE topic of conversation, and he generally ignored people asking him why he was defending SS so hard, simply writing off all questions as SS just town-telling. His reads were generally weak and it's like he just jumped on the flavor of the day for whatever seemed to possibly get some momentum train wise.

AP does that, he jumps around and looks fishy as hell. I was scum in our last game, so I was observing him knowing he was town, and up until he was cleared by a gunsmith, I thought he was acting scummy as hell, which pleased me ofc. He also led the discussion regarding a mass claim, before he was cleared.

I guess I shouldn't be so quick to call AP town, because I don't know his scum meta. But at the very least he's null based on the points you make, because he does exactly this as town. I'll need more than this to join an AP wagon.

My suspicions of toogeloo are relieved for now, too.

He is a detriment to scum if he is town too, since he is one less mislynch at LyLo, which means that they actually have to take care of him before then...

This is a very good point.

malp is my only real scum read at this point. Everyone else is either leaning town or null.

[TheReverend]

I like this post, but I am a bit curious about the town read on Rufflig. Explain?

Sure.

The only reason I didn't follow Xvart onto malpascp is because of the pressure Xvart was under at the time. I was unwilling to put pressure on malpascp that could lead to malpascp placing his vote on Xvart to save himself. As long as malpascp was against the Xvart lynch while Xvart was under pressure, I was fine with not pressuring malpascp.

This stood out and seemed sincere.

It was a message which stated that I had not been role-blocked. All things considered, I'm not sure what to make of it.

This seems elaborate for a scum soft claim.

All in all, he seemed to be talking a lot, and by a lot, I mean in ways that seems hard for scum to maintain. He certainly doesn't come across as someone keeping his thoughts to himself. Obviously I can't say for sure he is town, but he stood out as most likely as I glanced through.

[TheReverend]

Ok so I've been thinking about Tajun's PGO claim. We can confirm him by using a sacrificial lamb to go visit him. Anyone have a meh role and feels like dying for the benefit of the town? If we can confirm him, he's an awesome person to leave, and it forces the scum to kill greygnarl, while keeping the PGO around for lylo. On the other hand, if someone visits him and doesn't die, he's a lying scumbag and can be happily lynched.

This seems a better stratgey than policy lynching him or taking his word for it and leaving him, but I'm a noob so I might be wrong. Only ever played with PGO once, I was an army vet in an offsite game, but it only worked vs wolf kills, not against seer / angel etc.

Discuss.

[TheReverend]

I missed tajun suggest SS targets him. This changes my "unsure" position on tajun. Looking a lot more likely he's town now.

"I buy Tajun as legit town as I'm assuming there's no such thing as a scum PGO."

This comment doesn't have me thinking they're both scum. Highly unlikely imo. More likely qwints is scum and tajun is town.

[TheReverend]

Guys, lets stop being dumb. It's impossible to break the setup through flavour. The end.

I'm V/LA until Saturday

, posting once a day or less. Don't worry, I'll be around.

This was posted sunday. I assume this means he's away all week. I've no problem with people putting real life before internet nerd games.

He's still my favoured lynch at this stage, though.

[TheReverend]

My mistake.

[TheReverend]

TheReverend - for the weird "Let's have a townie kill themselves" plan when Tajun's towniness is obvious.

Even now I know he "invited" serene to test his claim (which I didn't know when I made that post), he's still not obvious town to me, he's probably town. The only person who's obvious town from my pov is myself (and by extension xvart, of course).

If tajun is indeed town, then his towniness is obvious only to himself and the scum. You're not tajun, therefore I think you're scum.

UNVOTE: malp

VOTE: qwints

Now my preferred lynch.

[TheReverend]

TheReverend, don't be stupid. Townies say obv-town all the time. You proposed a plan that would get another townie killed for no real benefit, that's anti-town. Your OMGUS response to being called on your bad suggestion is similarly bad.

VOTE: TheReverend

Dude, I said I was suspicious of you, then suddenly you're naming me in your suspect list. I vote for you, you vote for me. Your vote is OMGUS, not mine. Nice try.

It fair enough that people say obv town, but to insist to everyone that your read is correct, that anyone who thinks tajun still *could* be scum is scummy, this is bad, in my opinion.

You're making a case out of literally thin air, fuck knows why. You guys worried about me or something?

Rev: According to this logic, Antihero and AP must also be scum for calling someone else obviously town. Probably a few others also.

It's one thing to say that you think someone is obvtown, it's a comletely different thing to say that someone who disagrees is scummy. If AP and antihero start telling me I'm scum for not agreeing with their flawed view that someone they don't know the role of is obvtown, then sure, I might point my finger at them too.

[TheReverend]

You proposed a plan that would get another townie killed for no real benefit, that's anti-town.

Further.

I proposed a plan? I asked for a discussion. Then find out we already had this discussion. Is tajun scum for making the same suggestion? Oh, wait, he's obvtown. So he's obvtown while making the same suggestion as me, and I'm scummy for it? Nice logic bra.

You, sir, are creating something out of nothing. That is scum motivation.

[TheReverend]

* points finger *

Also, I think antihero is town.

Jal could be scum.

[TheReverend]

Jal- Yes. As I see it, AP is more likely to say meta is BS when he's scum.

You're wrong. He was saying mets is BS in my last game. I'm not saying AP isn't scum, I haven't reached that conclusion yet, but pretty much every reason I've seen for him being scum has me null on him.

[TheReverend]

This. The Qwints v Reverend fight is looking pretty bad on both fronts, actually.

Let me explain to you my position.

From my pov, he's seen me join the game and state loosely that I think he's suspect, then as soon as I say something that might be questionable, like suggesting we test your claim with a weak town PR, he jumps on like it's the scummiest thing in the world. But when you're making the suggestion serene comes to pay you a visit, you're obvtown.

This is inconsistent, and smacks of town cred grab where you're concerned, and OMGUS as far as I'm concerned. Thus, I have more reason to believe he's scum than anyone else.

He thinks I'm scummy because I refuse to blindly accept you as town. I think his position is scummy. If this is a bad position for me to stand in, then I'm sorry, but it's where I'm standing.

[TheReverend]

@qwints

Maybe not. But my suggestion is hardly constructive if I'm scum now, is it? What if the town turn on me and ask me to volunteer myself? If I'm town, and I feel doing so is pro-town and helps us win, I do it. If I'm scum, it backfires horribly.

My suggestion might not have been a brilliant idea, but it's far from scum motivated, as you suggest. And you know this full well, or at least you should. Why isn't everyone on my case for that post?

[TheReverend]

2) someone else is using the power on GG (someone who couldn't use it on himself to auto win end game for instance).

I like this idea.

[TheReverend]

Yeah, we're not talking about calling other people scummy for disagreeing. We're talking about how someone calling another obvious town makes them scum as only them and the person they're calling it would find their towniness obvious and how it doesn't really work out that way.

Both AP and Antihero have called someone obv town this game supposedly without knowing the person's alignment. Let's work this logic on them:

Angry Pidgeon: If SS is indeed town, then her towniness is obvious only to herself and the scum. You're not SS, therefore I think you're scum.

Antihero: If AP is indeed town, then his towniness is obvious only to himself and the scum. You're not AP, therefore I think you're scum.

Does this look right to you?

Seems to me like you're trying to divert my attention away from qwints and towards pidgeon and antihero. Either of those two could be scum, but they don't looks as scummy to me as qwints. He went further than saying tajun was obvtown, he attacked me for not sharing this opinion.

Now, about flavour claims...

Greygnarl says it's harder for white people to lynch him. As has been pointed out, if he's scum, it will be very useful information for him to know who's white and black. So the sexual orientation might relate to another role, and this could be info the scum want to get out into the open. I'm not happy with flavour claims when we're being told this info is related to particular roles. Those pushing for flavour claims are scummy for this very reason. Malp wants to know if there's any more homos out there. Please explain why you want to know.

[TheReverend]

Just to throw in my scum suspects, I think at least two from [qwints malp gregnarl jal].

malp stomping in and saying I'm town seems like blatant buddying,
qwints attacks me for saying tajun isn't obvtown,
greygnarl is all over the place drawing his claim out,
jal seems to be trying to spread out the suspicious looks.

pidgeon could be scum, I'm less town on him than I was when I first read through. And antihero, it's tough to know if his frustration is sincere or fake. If jal is town, then there could well be scum between pidgeon and antihero.

[TheReverend]

I'd like to point out that the game opened with Pidgeon asking for flavor claims as well.

This hasn't gone unnoticed. Only, last game, as I've pointed out, I was lone scum and pidgeon was town, and he was the driving forced behind a mass claim, much to my pleasure. It allowed me to pick off the doctor without having to guess. I don't think mass claims and flavour claims are pro-town, not early on, but pidgeon has shown me already that he does this as town. Just to remind you, I do not think pidgeon is obvtown or leaning town, I'm null, and I understand why people are suspicious of him.

I made my claim and then Rufflig decided that he was some sort of genius that knew everything. If he'd taken a bit of time he could see that what I'm saying lines up.

It took a long time for you to say you were a black homo. Meanwhile, other people have been claiming white, black, cis and konowa flipped transexual. Why would you assume black homo is a joke?

[TheReverend]

You didn't feel it necessary to look at your role pm when it was time for you to claim?

Bollocks.

UNVOTE: qwints
VOTE: greygnarl

L-1, assuming he doesn't need an extra lynch. L-2 if he does.

[TheReverend]

Sorry but your claim seems really fishy to me.

[TheReverend]

@Rufflig/Reverend: Do you think scum have fake claims (and that the obamaphone woman is one?). Why is it scummy for GG to forget to claim Black Homo? It would be scummy for him to make it up after the fact, but I really don't think that is the case. If he is screwing up a fake claim, then he is being awfully blase about it.

I think scum have real roles. They can easily claim each other's roles. His omission of "black homo" is suspcious to me because it seems like these factors are relevant to certain roles, possibly scum roles. So those pressing for flavour claims, which includes you, deserve scrutiny. The fact you pressed for a mass claim last game makes me think you can still be town quite easily, while malp is blatantly asking for other homos to step forward. Malp is scummy, and I can get back on that wagon if it takes off.

As for greygnarl, it took him too long for him to tell us his race and orientation, and pressed on it, he says he forgot, he didn't look at his role, thought it was a joke etc. So much inconsistencies.

I think scum want a full flavour claim so they can pick off night kills more effectively. I want to lynch malp or greygnarl, and if they're both scum, next is you pidgeon.

[TheReverend]

my ability was already proven

Proven to exist. It's not proof that you possess this role.

[TheReverend]

Does the mod provide fake claims on this site? All this talk of fake claims, I assume it's the scum who individually assume a fake role, not the mod providing them with one.

My flavour doesn't match my role. I'm going into no more deatil about that at this stage.

[TheReverend]

Pidgeon just became more scummy than qwints.

[TheReverend]

Yeah I counted rufflig's confirmed vote. I don't like people bolding confirms, no need for it and as one glances the thread, it looks like a new vote.

greygnarl is actually at L-1 right now if his power is working.

[TheReverend]

My case on malp...

He seemed more aggressive through day one that what I'm used to seeing from malp over my other two games, where he was laid back.
He wants to know if there are any more homos out there, information that could relate to a role in the same way race relates to greygnarl's role.
He isn't posting much but still found room to say I'm town, despite me saying he's amongst my prime suspects.

UNVOTE: greygnarl

I would like to abosrb recent events before deciding if greygnarl is a good lynch.

[TheReverend]

Pidgeon's vote was not scummy. Rufflig stated over half an hour before pidgeon's vote that greygnarl was at L-1 and my count was wrong, and after the confusion my vote count caused, it seems obvious pidgeon would count the votes.

qwints is pushing for a lynch based on thin evidence.

VOTE: qwints

[TheReverend]

Well if you come around to realizing Malp is actually scum and worthy of a vote you know where to find me.

I want him to answer why he wants to know if there are any more homos. Malp looks scummy to me, but I'm in no hurry. Qwints looks equally as scummy. If malp's response does not appease me, I'll hop back onto his wagon happily.

[TheReverend]

I agree with this point, but I still think GG is the best choice. His actions do not seem right, and he is trying to wriggle his way out. Also, though,

I'm not sure. greygnarl is certainly interesting, and not a lynch I hate, but that's twice now qwints has pushed a questionable lynch. I think he looks like scum trying to get another wagon running. Anyone but him. Anything he can question, he seizes on it.

[TheReverend]

I'm showcasing how your logic is faulty and you're selectively applying it to whomever you want. My point is, it doesn't look that great when I apply your logic to AP and Antihero (given your reads). There was enough reason building up to put your own vote on Qwints without doing all this logic buggiedeboo.

You're totally missing my point. I targetted qwints because he feels my disagreeing with tajun = obvtown is scummy. It's not that he finds tajun obvtown. It's that he feels so strongly about this that those who feel differently are scum motivated.

You go on to say there's enough on qwints for me to just put a vote on him without having to justify it, then you go and vote qwints with an explanation. Funny. I'll only blindly hop onto other people's logic if that logic is compelling enough.

Jal is bussing qwints. You heard it here first.

[TheReverend]

Ok majiffy.

[TheReverend]

No hatin' on majiffy. He's cool.

He's funny, I dunno about cool. Jal and I seem to be having communication problems, and jal does what majiffy does in this spot... omg you're stupid. It's literally the least constructive path to take.

[TheReverend]

lol no, if jal = maj than jal would've started insulting me way earlier. Also jal seems to actually attempt to analyse the situation, rather than just bitch. Also jal's insults aren't quite as sharp as maj's, not yet anyway. Try harder.

[TheReverend]

Question to all: Who thinks Malp is scum?

He's high up in my list of suspects. I wouldn't be massively surprised if I were wrong.

[TheReverend]

I don't think greygnarl is scum, but I'm not as confident about antihero.

[TheReverend]

In post 1141, qwints wrote:
a town PR.

This is a good spot. Further evidence of qwints finding thin reasons to point his finger at people.

@Rufflig: If GG is getting lynched it does need to be by tomorrow at the latest. If he is scum, then he becomes basically unlynchable after another ML.

Also another good point. But I feel the need to nitpick... the way this comment is worded, it seems like you expect a mislynch today, because if today's lynch is successful, we don't need to lynch greygnarl tomorrow, it can wait another day. I'm going to assume this was clumsy language rather than a slip.

qwints is clearly our best lynch today imo. Every reason he seems to give for his suspicions is flawed. If he flips scum, I'm looking at malp, antihero and possibly greygnarl, but I will be honest and admit I name greygnarl our of paranoia. I'm getting a town vibe off him for the way he's responding to all the crap he's getting for his role, but he could be scum just shrugging his shoulders.

If qwints flips town then I reassess completely.

[TheReverend]

God fucking damn. My ability is still working. I was trying to draw out scum who would know I wasn't dead or say something about how we need to fix up how we lynched another townie.

This actually doesn't seem to make any sense to me. Maybe I need it explained real slowly without using big words.

Why would scum know you're not dead but not town?
Why would scum say anything about you being a townie before your flip?

Am I just totally missing the point of this gambit?

@Malp

I would ask to everyone if there is any other Homo around, if I was in your shoes.

Explain please. I've asked you twice. You're getting my vote if you ignore this request again.

[TheReverend]

I don't know if it's me being stupid or malp being very unclear, but I'm still none the wiser. I feel the orientation might be relevant to a role, potentially a scum role, thus I don't like the idea of people flavour claiming, and those pressing for it I will question the motives of.

I guess the only thing I can take from malp's post is I feel he'd make more of an effort to not get my vote if he were scum, since it's between him and qwints.

I'll stick with qwints for now. I'll settle for malp if we're not getting anywhere closer to deadline.

[TheReverend]

I'm torn. I believe qwints' claim, but I'm not so sure it's a town role. My last scum game, we had a RB on the scum team. And I have a nagging feeling malp is mislynch bait, depsite my unease regarding him.

Question is, if qwints is scum, does he name town or scum as his RB target? If qwints is scum, why would he RB malp? Will have a catch up read later to see if I can answer this question, in the meantime we should not hammer either player and have some talk about this claim first imo.

[TheReverend]

Actually my last scum game, we had a JK, not RB, but that's kind of irrelevant. RB of course can be town or scum.

[TheReverend]

lol, malp either got roleblocked by scum, roleblocked by town, or both are scum. qwints is hardly going to tell us he roleblocked someone who might step forward and call bullshit.

[TheReverend]

Malp should claim IMO.

I hate the fact that we're forcing two claims with these wagons. Malp should avoid claiming until intent to hammer is stated. I don't intend to hammer at this stage, and if this changes, I'll say so and wait. Don't claim yet please malp, not until intent is stated. If qwints is going today anyway, malp's claim is not necessary.

fos @pidgeon for pushing for these claims.

[TheReverend]

And I'm not voting qwints.

Why did you claim without intent stated, and why won't you vote qwints?

We also need to figure out how gender is relevant. I don't doubt the scum already know this.

Note that malp didn't say his role was town. qwints did.

I don't like malp's role and feel it's of more benefit to scum. I now prefer to lynch malp.

UNVOTE:

toog - fair enough, you can explain that to me later.

Not going to hammer any time soon, some important discussion to be had.

[TheReverend]

Malp, I asked you not to claim. There was no stated intent. I don't like your role because it changes gender and renders potentially strong town PRs ineffective for the course of the game. Have you got any idea why changing someone's gender would be of any benefit?

I'm not making up reasons to lynch you. You didn't answer my second question... why won't you vote qwints?

[TheReverend]

I win when all threats to town are gone.

Stating intent to hammer. Malp is scum.

[TheReverend]

Malp, please answer these questions before I hammer your ass.

Have you got any idea why changing someone's gender would be of any benefit?

why won't you vote qwints?

[TheReverend]

Ok time to hammer the scum.

VOTE: malp

Pidgeon is also scum. I think toog might be the third but I'm not nearly as sure about that.

Reason malp is scum - he fucked up with his claim. I quoted his comment in #1227, obviously I pointed this out because it's inconsistent with my pm.

Pidgeon is scum because he totally ingored this post, but acknowledged other points I made about malp. I think pidgeon wasn't sure if I nailed malp or if I was throwing a gambit out there.

I'm lol obvtown if malp flips scum, so any doctors out there, please protect me if malp flips scum.

[TheReverend]

I just don't see why he'd go to the trouble of explaining his win condition and then not state it the same as every other townie.

I'm so fucking obvtown now lol.

[TheReverend]

So I was wrong about malp but I'm not crying based on his role. Sucks for him that he keeps getting crappy town roles, last game with him he was miller. It's good for the town that this role is gone.

As for pidgeon, with malp flipping town, scumpidgeon would know I hadn't nailed malp, so that case has evaporated. Not saying he's now in my town camp, but the reason I thought he was scum is flawed, so he's back to null.

Also, accepted I'm not obvtown, I forgot scum can get fakeclaims which I assume would have town's win condition worded the same as actual town, so my pointing out malp's incorrect language means nothing. I am town, but my comments don't prove it.

qwints looking like a solid choice but I don't see any hurry. I don't intend to vote anyone until everyone has posted in case we have some juciy info.

[TheReverend]

I think I was blocked. Qwints could be a scum roleblocker, ofc, but the pm I received led me to believe I was indeed roleblocked, so this claim looks honest.

[TheReverend]

No I wasn't directly told I was roleblocked, but my n1 pm wording was distinctly different from my n2 wording. RB explains this.

I think qwints is scum. If he's town, why did he choose me over AP? His top scum read yesterday was pidgeon, he made a couple of soft pushes at me but nothing really strong. But pidgeon, he was on his case all day. But if he's scum, well he'll sure be worried about me because I was naming him as scum most of the day. I think he roleblocked me because he's scum and he knows I'm town who would target him with certain scary roles. NK'ing me would be very questionable after I hammered malp like that. If he's town I think he RB's pidgeon, not me.

[TheReverend]

This is an interesting twist. I think if we have another roleblocker who blocked toogeloo, he should claim. Alternatively, tujun is scum and was protected by a scum doctor. I'm gonna try and absorb this to see if I can think of any other options. I suppose toogeloo could be scum and full of shit, but that seems pretty unlikely to me right now.

[TheReverend]

Will hold off on a full claim, but I can confirm that my role does rely on return pm's. n2 wording was very strange, I'm pretty sure I was blocked.

[TheReverend]

Fuck it, I'm obviously not a cop otherwise I KNOW I was roleblocked. Might as well claim my role.

I'm a watcher. I don't want to share my flavour in case this is useful to scum, I don't think it's important I share my race or orientation. I'm also going to protect who I watched in case scum fake claim later and say they targetted him.

n1 I watched xxx. My pm told me no-one visited him.
n2 I watched xxx. My pm told me I saw nothing.

That tells me I was blocked last night. Perhaps I'm wrong and mod mixes up his return pm's, but I think qwints is at least honest about blocking me. I don't see why he'd lie as scum or town.

[TheReverend]

I think we should mass claim roles today. Not flavour, just roles. This would force the scum to fake claim, and perhaps fall into the trap of saying they targetted my n1 target. If we don't mass claim today, I think they NK me so I can't disprove their n1 fake action. But let's discuss this before anyone actually claims. I still think anyone who blocked toogeloo should claim regardless.

[TheReverend]

I'm pretty sure tajun and qwints ae both scum at this point but let's wait for everyone to show up first, so much to discuss. Quadz, thoughts on role claim? And why do you want flavour claim from tajun?

[TheReverend]

And yes, bulletproof does seem most likely. Protected by scum doctor is another option.

[TheReverend]

No, thoughts on mass role claim, no flavour?

[TheReverend]

And why do you want tajun's flavour? How is this useful info for town?

[TheReverend]

Yeah I realised you were stting a trap for me when you claimed. Do you agree the wording of my pms suggest I was roelblocked? And I think you're right that mafia doc is the less likely reason tajun is still alive. Bulletproof does seem most likely.

[TheReverend]

Scum team looks like qwints, tajun and quadz right now, but quadz just because he's asking strange questions and neglecting to answer questions he doesn't like. Can we even be sure there's 3 mafia or could there be more? I'm basically assuming based on size of game.

[TheReverend]

Ok so here's my thoughts on those still with us...

Quadz08 Shamrock - emerging as a scum suspect. Shamrock was quiet and I was null on him, but quadz is giving me cause for concern. Not a strong read, but slightly scummy.
Jal Bitmap Buckwild - leaning town. I don't recall anything off my head that bitmap posted, buckwild was looking town and jal seems to be pressing in a town way, so I'm happy with this slot right now.
qwints - claimed roleblocker, blocked me. I think scum.
AngryPidgeon - null. The reason I gave for him being scum is flawed, but he's not giving me strong town vibes. He's active enough so I'm in no hurry to push him.
TheReverend xvart - town, watcher.
Toogeloo - claimed vig, very probably town.
Tajun * - claimed PGO, looking like scum after vig visited him and neither died. If no-one claims they roleblocked him today, he's got to die today.
The Rufflig - town.
Antihero Zajnet * - could be scum.

I think we've got enough town reads to narrow the pool down to qwints, tajun, quadz and antihero. I think town is in good shape here and a mass claim now is looking good. Quadz not wanting to go down this line has me leaning scum with him that little bit more, the scum would realise this could finish them, especially if I'm right and it's between these four.

[TheReverend]

Toogeloo could be scum trying to get tajun lynched, knowing they can't NK him. I don't think this is as likely as tajun being scum, but it's something that has crossed my mind and cannot be ignored.

[TheReverend]

Yeah I totally agree that scum sacrificing in return for a PGO who would be easy to policy lynch is far from optimal scum strategy. Toog has gotta be town here. And since we're all here and no-one has claimed to have roleblocked toog, it's pretty obvious to me that tajun is scum.

There's no doubt I'm gonna get NK'ed tonight. If we want the chance to trap scum by having them say they targetted my n1 target, mass claim must be today. I get that there's prob another strong town PR out there, but there's me and toog for the scum to work through as well. I'll be watching whoever has the strongest claimed role, currently toog. That's why they have to kill me first. It's obvious to me and them. So a mass claim today is no different from a mass claim tomorrow, only today we have the extra bonus of them having one person to dodge when they fake claim their n1 action.

I'm a dead man tonight. Today is last chance to make use of what little info I have. If you guys really think mass claiming today is not good, fair enough. I'm not gonna push for this after this post. But don't go and mass claim tomorrow because that's the same net result as doing it today, minus the bonus. That will annoy me.

[TheReverend]

The only thing I am worried about at this point is whether scum interfered with my shot and didn't claim it.

And in turn this comment is all that worries me about you, but I guess you say this either way. You're right that it's a possibility, but it can also be your excuse if you're scum for when he flips town.

But qwints is probably scum roleblocker and he blocked me, so I doubt you got blocked by scum. And I also really would be somewhat surprised if you flip scum.

qwints - why have you completely ignored my post where I explain why I think you're still scum? Is this not a strong enough push to warrant a response?

[TheReverend]

Win-con thing seemed forced? Bullshit. If you said that the malp flip made you think I could be scum, I could buy that. But this excuse is rubbish. I really thought I nailed malp there. I was so expecting malp to flip scum that I thought I was obvtown. Only his flip made me realise this wasn't the case.

I was happy with either lynch. That's because I felt both of you were scummy. No, I think you blocked me because you knew I'd look you up as cop or shoot you if vig. You're scum.

So who do you think are the scum now the qwints? You still think me and pidgeon?

[TheReverend]

Tajun, your reaction is not convincing me. Clowns? Why are those who think you're scum clowns? You told us you're PGO, toog tells us he tried to shoot you and neither of you died. Why are you surprised people are now thinking you're scum? This waa waa act makes it look all the more likely. IF you flip town, then toog probably dies, but he's not guaranteed to flip scum even then. Toog doesn't look like scum lying to me. He could be, but it's a shit gambit if he is. So our primary concern is that qwints is not scum roleblocker and toog got roleblocked by scum. Or that scum have two roleblockers. You don't even seem to think this could be the case. No pal, you're caught scum. Sucks to be you right now.

[TheReverend]

I'm obviously town because my claim would be fucking stupid if I'm scum. It wasn't smart as town, I'd have been better off staying quiet and wathing toog tonight, but too late for that.

No one seems to be able to think "hey, why would a scum BP have claimed PGO or why would a claimed PGO have a doc protection" or "why wouldn't scum tajun have self-hammered, since his death was a certainty regardless" or "why is dead-man tajun still trying to help?"

You seem to be neglecting that your claim came at a time when, as you acknowledge, you weren't playing well enough to draw a NK. Or, to put it another way, you were at serious risk of being d1 lynch.

Unofficial vote count (9 players, 5 to lynch)-
tajun - (quadz pidgeon toogeloo qwints) - 4 (L-1)
qwints - (jal reverend) - 2

I'll throw in a VOTE: qwints, he's already scummy as hell but he throws in his vote without telling us it's L-1. Further scumminess.

We could leave toog to prove his vigness by directing him to kill a particular scummy person. Any other town vig will not shoot that person. Maybe scum NK the person toog is directed to kill, but that leaves me around for another day with my unclaimed n1 action. Scum can't kill toog because I'll be protecting him by watching him. That's why they have to kill me first. It's so obvious I have no problem posting this.

If toog's target dies, along with me, then toog is vig and tajun is obviously scum. If toog's target didn't die, he was either roleblocked or he's scum. Removing qwints probably means they can't roleblock him.

So yeah, qwints today, not tajun. Discuss.

[TheReverend]

Tajun raises a good point here. Maybe scum redirected the vig shot to someone who was protected.

Pedit: I had a vote down for the plan, but we should choose a "target" for toogeloo before we do this lynch. FTR, I am very much in favour of this.

Indeed. Quadz or antihero imo.

[TheReverend]

Actually if scum are going to redirect a town player, they send him to PGO... unless of course they know PGO is scum faking. If scum have a redirector and tajun is PGO, we have another dead body today. So no, that idea is flawed.

[TheReverend]

Would like to hear toog's thoughts on my suggestion. I prefer quadz as the target, but antihero is scummy enough to remove from the pool.

[TheReverend]

L-1 again. Reading rufflig's iso, I missed his claim somehow.

[TheReverend]

I'm a redirector. I redirected malpascp to Tajun night 1 and you (antihero) to Tajun night 2. What I need to know is if you targeted anyone last night.

Tajun must be lying. That's three people who should have died, it's becoming incresingly unlikely that tajun is honest here.

If toog is unhappy with my idea, then I am also unhappy with it. I think now just lynch the lying scumbag tajun and have qwints shot by toog, while I watch toog. Any town doctors or jailkeepers out there would do well to target me.

[TheReverend]

You realize that I have thought qwints has been town since Day 1, so I don't endorse his lynch either.

Ok just read this bit, I missed it while I was iso'ing ruff. Fair enough, if you have a shot left, pick your own target.

[TheReverend]

How the fuck is tajun town here? Ruff and toog need to explain themselves. I assume I'm dead tonight. Good luck town.

[TheReverend]

Also don't like jal's hammer. We weren't exactly stuck for discussion, despite the obvious lynch.

[TheReverend]

This could be why you're still talking though tajun, because you want us to talk about night actions to refine scum night strategy. I'm going to have to read up before I decide my pick, which is annoying because I probably won't even make it though the night and my time will be wasted. But I have to play with the hope that I get protected. Even a JK should protect me, it leaves me room for a gambit and allows me to disprove anyone who claims my n1 target. qwints, if you're town, don't fucking roleblock me again. Only scum RB's me now.

[TheReverend]

Tomorrow you need to explain how both your night targets went to the PGO without dying... that is, of course, assuming tajun is indeed PGO. If he flips scum, then please ignore my comment.

[TheReverend]

lol toog shot me? Nice. Vig massacre, toog = honourary scum.

qwints and jal were obvscum. Tough defeat to take this one, we should've been in great shape today after jal got shot and qwints lynched.