Mini 370: Reverse Mafia - Game Over!

[Tamuz]

Christ.

Lot to read.

I'm about on post 35, catching up. Real post later I hope.

[Tamuz]

I'm a bit late, and some of this is slightly irrelevant right now because Yos is alived, but I think the best way is tod put people in camps, whther you would vote them alive or not. My camping so far works as follows

I wouldn't vote for
M4yhem
al_kohaulec
Yos 2

I could be conviced to vote for
CrashTextDummie
yellowbounder
Thoth
Twito
themanhimself
chaotic_diablo
lordy
Mr. César

I'd vote for:
Tamuz

Reasons, well the I could and I would sections are self-explanatory, and inactives just hurt scum, so I say let inactives be and live in limbo, they can't hurt the town there (nor can they help, but not hurting is more important.)

M4yhem: I've forgotten which post it was, but at one point he made my spikes bristle, I just wouldn't trust him. i think he is playing with someones best interest in hand, not his own.
Yos: This is a perfect game for him to be scum. The guy loves theorizes and he can do all the theorizing he wants which will give him a semblance of being a helpful townie, which is exactly what he has done and it has worked. I insist that we be extra careful who gets in next because I believe was may have a scum in the living already, a second would instantly end the game.
Al: among the over posting strategy that he is showing, his attitude towards M4yhem is also scummy. He waffles fiercly on M4yhem, and combining that with the way m4yhem rubs me wrong I see a strong negative connection betwixst the two.

[Tamuz]

I wouldn't vote for
M4yhem
al_kohaulec
Yos 2
Mr. Cesar
yellowbounder

I could be conviced to vote for
CrashTextDummie
Thoth
Twito
themanhimself
lordy

I'd vote for:
Tamuz
chaotic_diablo

We need more discussion before we agree to revive me.

Note the fallacy here...

Just a remixing of my list. I've put the self-voters into my untrusted list because I believe that scum would be so eager. Obviously everyone would trust themself and vote for themself, it is just those who do it blindy without real support or reasoning who seem more desperate.

It may be the psychological effect of c_d looking beneficially towards him, but I think he would make a good counter-point to Yos and is likely as not scum if Yos is so he is who I'd consider a safe placement in order to get diversity alive.

[Tamuz]

Then find reasons not to vote people and flip coins.

Thats one regret I have about not getting here earlier this game, otherwise I would have suggested we play it random, rolling dice which may have either,
A) Given us a good random base town, no chance of mafia planting
or
B) Flushed out impatient scum.

[Tamuz]

Oh, I doubt people would have agreed to it, but who ascented and who disagreed would have been more valuable than some votes imo.

Even though it is moot.

[Tamuz]

107: Al, you waffled on M4yhem in the same post. At the beggining you attacked him, and say you wouldn't support him, then towards the end you took the opposite stance. That isn't consistant play in my eyes, thats why I got the bad feeling and why I placed you in that list.

108: Thoth, I think random might just as well be as good as anything to start this game. I may be wrong, who knows, but in the hypothetical situation that I proposed the following discussion

would

have told us alot, wouldn't it?

109: The fallacy is the entire phrase. You state that like it is an inevitability, something already decided that we'll revive you. Reasoning for your self vote, bah shit piss and any other word that gives negative connotations. We could all give reasons why we vote ourselves as good as yours, that doesn't mean shit. I don't care why YOU want to vote you, you have a benefit of a PM that we don't, I want to know why WE should vote YOU. Plus, you seem over-zealous, like scum thinking they need to be revived prior to D1 or they'll lose.
Oh right, and you ask Mr. Cesar to explain his self-vote, uh huh... coo, thanks for the confession.

112: Uh huh Yos, so activity in general is all scumtacular, we must judge elsewhere then.

List has no variance.

[Tamuz]

I guess since Thoth seems to be a much-supported player I should probably take a more in-depth look at him and take a stance.

pbp (posts in reference to Thoth's post when sorted just to his posts)

0: Supports Yos
Assumes scum wouldn't have power-roles (later refuted by mafia dual-actions, kill & RB)
Large doubt on TMH, although indirectly placed, rather on his role.

1: Refuting addressed above. Yes-Mans Yos

2: Support Yos
Being able to extrapolate on our situation is good, not necessarily pro-town, but it seems helpful enough (if geniune) ergo support for revival.

3: votes Yos
Perhaps hinting towards scum-buddies to move towards different camps of thought.
Denounces M4yhem

4: Rebuts claim he lurks
espouses c_d
Notes potential of CTD to be informed, ergo in the minority.
Basic runthrough list

5: Aligns with c_d
Denounces M4yhem


Thats it--I think Thoth actually is lower on content than he claims me to be (but yes, it is true I'm not very high in content, but we are both kettles calling the other black pots). At this moment I would not vote for Thoth, he remains on the list of people I could be convinced to vote for, but I will need convincing and his posts aren't doing it for me.

Also, note his patter or support Yosx4 c_dx2. Honestly, I don't trust one so closely affixed on Yos, not just because I don't see what would exactly make Yos town, but also he could be coat-tailing Yos, c_d as well (yet here comes some personal bias of mine, I'd prefer seeing c_d revived over many here in the town). If not in the pre-game, but potentially have the living do a good turn for him when the game starts fo' real.

Synopsis:

I wouldn't vote for
M4yhem
Mr. Cesar
yellowbounder

I could be conviced to vote for
CrashTextDummie
Thoth
Twito
themanhimself
lordy

I'd vote for:
Tamuz
chaotic_diablo

Yos removed, since it is pointless to say I wouldn't vote him.

[Tamuz]

Ooops, yeah your status quo al, although I'm considering bumping you towards the middle.

M4yhem... dear m4yhem

Tamuz- Okay. If you think that’s a fallacy, go ahead.

It isn't whether I want to think it is a fallacy or not. That is a fallacy as they are defined. Argumentative reasoning I believe (?), it is illogical debate. Not my oppinion.

But on the Mr. Ceaser thing- er, what? If I ask you for reasoning, would that make us buddies?

Well it just came out mixed in my mind that you actually wanted/needed someone to explain their self-vote in this game. I found that a bit... well warped, I can't put this in words well, but something about the contrast of you 'explaining' why to vote for yourself, and then turning around and wondering why another person would vote for themself...

I disagree that activity is scumtacular. I had an active playstyle; Lordy lurks in all the games I’m in with him. Activity is basically a null tell.

Basically, but it still has potential to be a tell. In the lordy situation that is metagaming. If you wanted to make him active, lynch him in every game D1 unless he becomes active, the results would be interesting (but I'm not sure recommendable). And I think you misread my statement. I said

Uh huh Yos, so activity in general is all scumtacular, we must judge elsewhere then.

This means activity in all its forms, major, minor and lack thereof is scummy. Because this weighs equally on everyone, because everyone fits in one of these categories we must use other qualities to judge scumminess.

And there’s no need to swear. If I manage to stop myself, so can you.

Damn straight I could, but I'd rather use explatives as long as they aren't directed. Then again if I hadn't used hard words your OMGUS feeling towards me probably wouldn't be as harsh.

[Tamuz]

Despite not knowing what Morton's Fork, I'm just gonna put it out there that since my activity in this game started I've been fairly consistant Thoth. Yes I know that judgement was made prior to some events, and all your posts must be looked at in their time, rather than in comparison to developed events.

[Tamuz]

Lets not quibble about meaning of words? MEANINGS ARE WORDS!!


How about I talk about the smell of your words instead.

[Tamuz]

Scum will do what it takes to win, thats all the WIFOM arguements really boil down to. It all about what you think is has the highest probability and the act upon it. This is a game with few exacts, you just have to try and make the best decisions on assumptions from those facts.

[Tamuz]

Yeah, I didn't answer your Q's yet Mayhem.

I'll answer the ones I feel should be answered later. I just didn't want to answer in the same post i denounce the whole 'lets ignore words meanings' or else it would decrease that post's statement.


Hubert Cumperdale, your posting tastes like soot and poo.

[Tamuz]

Some questions for you, Tamuz my flower:
If we revive you, whose revival are you most likely to support next?[/qupte]
I'm not so sure, I'm exploring two different paths of thought in my head, one which is my status quo of looking for people, the other I'd rather not say so not to skew data gathering, but it'd be revealed once the data is out

Whose revival are you most likely to argue against?

Cesars...

[quote="M4]Do you trust Yosarian?

List of people I trust:
Me
God
ChannelDelibird

What are the reasons for your answers to the questions above?

I ain't putting reliance/my trust in someone I don't know at least 90% about, and I feel no information I have other than my role PM is solid enough to have that 90% judgement about. Cesar's play, although it may not be scummy per se, it isn't pro-town.

Do you think you are the best candidate for revival? If so, why? If not, who would be better?

[/quote]
Again, me having information you don't beats this question. I know I'm a good candidate, ya'll can't know the same. Whether I'm a good candidate or not is more about your own perceptions than mine.

[Tamuz]

In that case, what makes Mr. Cesar better than Yellowbounder?

And trust me, Tamuz, BBcode Master, to fuck up my quotes again sorry about making that tough to read.

[Tamuz]

No, that is directed at those voting Cesar.

[Tamuz]

Nobody can help the town dead.

[Tamuz]

Mr. Stoofer says people shouldn't roleclaim.

[Tamuz]

Out of curiosity, how do you make invisible text?

:redflag:

c_d, how did you pick up the impression that we have a SK in this game. I got the strong impression from the discussion prior to this game, and the win conditions posted there that a SK would not exist, especially because that would mess up the balances like the 2 mafia out loss.

[Tamuz]

I follow you CTD, but it may just be a red herring, much like the "I MUST be revived by Cesar.

[Tamuz]

So yeah, well I think I don't need explaining this at this point. Although yes I do understand that it is contrary to my statement that I won't vote for our self-voters.

vote: Tamuz

[Tamuz]

Yos, can I get a list of where you stand on everyone?

Like with catagories: I would revive, I wouldn't revive, undecided (or equivolents).

Thanks !

[Tamuz]

I'd recommend to the town choosing someone who neither Yos or I support (Mainly Yos from my perspective, but I sympathize with the town, so someone I don't support as well) so that there is a smaller chance of us losing so quickly.

Of course, I understand opposal to this reccomendation.

I'll come back and reread Pg 10 because I haven't read closely or addressed anything from this page forth.

[Tamuz]

Sorry, I've been paying like 0 attention to any games lately but WoT. I've checked Theme in apprehension, then seeing it not open I close my browser.

Things I note:
M4yhem's sucking up to CTD
Support, despite being a popular candidate is not meaningless. Support is still support, even if majorial.
M4yhem seems to be getting desperate, perhaps to try and get in, or to give a scummate a springboard
Zindaras will bring more sanity to Mr. C's role
I'm still undecidede on what to do with power roles
I hardly posted in the first few pages because I didn't get to the game till then


My list is the same as yesterday, not much movement either due to same stances, or because of lack of posting.

[Tamuz]

There seems to be a sentiment that one of the revived, whether it is Yos or Myself is scum. Although, I'm personally not sure about this, and other than my distrust of Yos, I think that it would be important for people who believe one of us is scum to think about this and to, well... explore connections then. I'd hate to be blindsided with Yos being scum and someone he supports getting brought in here because nobody had the balls to stand up and state this. Remember, triangles are the strongest shapes in the world. A triangle formed of our elected oppinions will help us bend rather than break.

Oh, and I don't think a cop claim is such a smart idea at the moment for some of the previously stated reasons, mainly those speaking of uncertainty.

[Tamuz]

Oh yeah and if we have other cops counter claims now please.. ya know incase 1 of the 2 revived so far is mafia the best thing for other mafia members to do right now is try to claim good power role and hope to be revived.

You mean like you just did with your doctor claim?

I'm not wholly opposed to the Zindaras revival it seems to match Mr. C in retrospect, but remember we have no assurance of his sanity, or if we even have a cop, that is alot of trust and alot of power put into his hands.

[Tamuz]

Unless we get a 100% certain investigation on Twito I'd rather not vote him. As I've already commented on his claim and the circumstances, it seems way too forced.

Oh yeah and if we have other cops counter claims now please.. ya know incase 1 of the 2 revived so far is mafia the best thing for other mafia members to do right now is try to claim good power role and hope to be revived.

You mean like you just did with your doctor claim?

So thats that in my eyes.

The actions and investigation of Sherlock are a very very strong case for him. But I'd like to mull over it for a while. I would very much not want to place my trust so easily in Zindaras (as much for the player as the role). But the fact that there are no other claimed tier 1 investigation roles gives me to reason that said trust would be well placed.
The one problem is the Sherlock essentiall flew under the radar so our information on him is very limited beyond his role and his cop-given 'innocence'.

Tamuz- Would you rather have yourself, or Yos, be roleblocked? Give reasons.

This question goes many ways. One way I'd say I'd rather be blocked, because I'm vanilla and if Yos has actions (this I don't know) then I wouldn't want to mess up these actions if they were pro-town. However, if Yos has actions and they weren't pro-town, I would obviously want him to be blocked. But, of course, I really don't know either way so I would personally prefer to play it safe. And because I know roleblocking me wouldn't do anything but I don't know that roleblocking Yos wouldn't prevent a kill. Therefore I'd much rather have Yos be blocked than myself because from my perspective that is playing safe opposed to risky but possible beneficial.

Alko, they may not have been equally relevant when he didn't have a result that the game may or may not rely on.

[Tamuz]

Ahh, the waiting game, how fun.

Seeing (and I assume) that we're having no counterclaims I'd think Twito would be a pretty good choice for a investigation tonight. I think I can safely say that he is fishy, but an investigation would make that sure or push it the otherway. Otherwise, given the circumstances and the claim, I would recommend looking his way for tommorow, unless you want to investigate the person we collectively think is most likely town. At which point I would probably recommend making use of the karma system and take the top person from there that isn't already alive.

No I'm not forcing you, of course, just putting in my guiding input.

[Tamuz]

The doctor could be insane, just putting that idea out for ya'll. And alot of this discussion hinges on whether CDB will give us the heads up if there is a save during the night, but then nobody believes that the night flavour would respond to a roleblock at night. Alot of this speculation is all on variables out of our control.

[Tamuz]

Sherlock has been prodded.

[Tamuz]

Ugh, win = erased