Mini 370: Reverse Mafia - Game Over!

[CrashTextDummie]

Cheers, everyone!

Vote: M4yhem

I'm against outing power roles this early, seeing as it is an attempt to break the game. Why not play it the way it was intended?

[CrashTextDummie]

Here's a thought:
There have to be some pro-town roles who can target the people in limbo. After all, the most straightforward way for the town to win is to not resurrect scum. There's not much we can do about a scum once he is alive (except if we have a living vig, which is a rather thin thread if you ask me), we can just keep him from killing, either by a doc or by a roleblocker.

Therefore, the question is:
Should we be more concerned about the scum in limbo (which would make investigation roles a priority), or about the living scum (which would make roleblocker/doc/vig/etc. the most valuable)?

Just some food for thought, I still don't think we should have anymore claims right now.

[CrashTextDummie]

Unvote
Vote: Yosarian

He shall LIVE again!

[CrashTextDummie]

All this theorizing about the set-up is making my head spin. I'll have to spend some dedicated time on figuring out how to best play this game personally, and then I'll share my thoughts.

In unrelated news, my vote on Yos has been pretty much shameless bandwagoning.

[CrashTextDummie]

Well, I guess Yos is living among the undead now. How's procedure? Do we vote for the next player to be revived right away?

[CrashTextDummie]

chaotic_diablo - I don't know where you get the idea that I will be non-contributive once I've been revived. Yes, I've pretty much avoided all the speculation about the set-up, but that's mainly because I haven't really decided on the best strategy, and because I think it can be dangerous to formulate elaborate gameplans already, considering that the mafia already had a chance to discuss things and most likely put a lot more thought into it than the average, independent townie.

I'm a bit wary of the people who are so willing to denounce M4yhem. I've played with him before, and his playstyle here is pretty consistent with what I've seen from him before (as a townie). Yes, some of his ideas have been bad, but I didn't get the impression that he tried to trick the town. It's more likely to me that his inexperience, coupled with a great deal of gusto towards this game has inspired him to share sub-optimal ideas in-thread.

[CrashTextDummie]

Me? Going back to the lurking state? Au contraire!

Adressing Toth's "potential scumslip" on me:
In most games I've played in as mafia (here and on other sites), we were allowed to talk before the thread opened even when we started in day. I assumed it was the same here. But even if this wasn't the case here, I still think scum put more thought into the set-up and their gameplan than the average pro-town player, since it actually requires some real effort from them to win this game. They have to appear really pro-town to the majority of the town, which I'd wager is more difficult than the not-looking-the-most-scummy aproach taken in most other games, considering the natural paranoia instilled in town players. And if not more difficult, it's at least different enough that scum would probably think about it before going into this game.

As I said, I did some thinking about how to play this game personally, and I have decided that I won't take the following traits into consideration when judging people:
1. being verbose/posting a lot of content - It's a good townie strategy as always, but it's also a better than usual scum strategy
2. voting for oneself/asking for revival - it leads to a lot of WIFOM. scum may be more eager to be revived than townies, but would they be so obvious about it? Maybe Mr. C has an awesome role he wants to get into play, but doesn't know how to promote himself more subtly (just an example)
3. lurking - it's never the best townie strategy, but it's a worse than usual strategy for scum this time around. I'm not going to vote for people I know too little about because of lurking, but if I have a good feeling about someone based on a few posts, I won't let that stop me
4. shameless bandwagoning - It's usually bad practice in conventional games and considered a scumtell, but it may actually be a viable townie tactic in this one. I'm currently undecided on how to think about it, that's why it's in this list for the moment (and yes, that's what I did with Yos; it's a bit of a letdown that barely anyone commented on it)

These four things I see as neither particularly scummy nor pro-town (I'm sure I forgot some things, I should have taken notes...).

The unique thing about this game is that it's usually easier to decide who the scummiest player is than who the least scummy player is, but this is counter-balanced by the fact that the chance of picking wrongly is lower here. Therefore, I've decided to go more with my gut feeling in this game (not entirely of course, but more than usual). What does that gut feeling tell me right now? Can't say yet, since I've mostly thought about strategy until now. I'll reread the thread and start playing for real (as in go "townie-hunting") when I'm done.

PS: I'm sure some of the things I've said have been brought up before. That's what I get for trying not to get influenced by anyone.

[CrashTextDummie]

If you really want to get revived that badly, you need to convince the town to revive you, you need to work for the vote, earn it. Otherwise nobody has any reason to revive you.

Actually, I'm not sure if I agree with this.

I'd even go so far as to

vote: Mr. César

[CrashTextDummie]

Also, did you only start posting because Chaotic called you out? It seems like it a little.

Basically, yeah.

I've had, and still have some major rereading duties today (6 games total, one of them 80 pages long) and when I saw him calling me out, I decided to work on this game immediately instead of doing one of the longer ones first.

[CrashTextDummie]

... this broadcast will continue! I have still more to say! (yay, contribution! sorry for the double post)

I agree with this somewhat. In my experience people that hint at or request something strongly without explaining further are usually sincere. Of course they rarely get what they what unless they already have a very good reputation at mafiascum

Actually, maybe a pro-town bandwagon

is

in order here. Everyone has outwright dismissed Mr. C so far, and it seems like I'm the first person to even consider reviving him. Certainly there hasn't been any scum effort to do so.

So, how about it? Anyone else willing to spin this game into a wild direction?

Note that this is merely a suggestion, and I'm not sure if it's a good one myself. But it willing to try it out.

[CrashTextDummie]

Themanhimself is a yellowbelly. I didn't "randomvote" Mr. C, I voted him with the full intention of bandwagonning him into living. I made this quite clear. Reasons:

1. No one else wanted to revive him
2. He doesn't just

want

to be revived, he

HAS

to be revived (according to him). Sounds to me like a not too subtle hint at a power role.
3. Bandwagons are fun, and it's rare for them not to be a scum tool

Crash- Dude, that’s the scummiest thing I’ve ever heard- you don’t contribute until someone calls you out for lurking? Come on now. Don’t be counting on my vote for a loooong time.

I was just being truthful. I had a load of games to reread, and seeing as my presence was specifically requested in this one, I did it first. Otherwise, I would have done it later.

That said, here are the people I will NOT support at this time:
Tamuz (he's too overeager for my liking)
themanhimself (for getting cold feet)
al_kohaulec (for reasons I'd like to keep to myself at the moment)

Everyone else I could be convinced to vote.

[CrashTextDummie]

I'm getting a sudden urge to revive chaotic_diablo.

Unvote, Vote: chaotic_diablo

[CrashTextDummie]

You guys are all sissys. Let's bandwagon chaotic_diablo and Mr. C and get this day over with.

[CrashTextDummie]

I'm pretty sure we shouldn't revive lordy...

[CrashTextDummie]

I'm pretty sure it wasn't.

You have displayed an extraordinary negative attitude so far. The only player you really supported was Tamuz, appart from that you have done nothing but shoot down attempted townie wagons.

You're very quick to throw out accusations. Is there actually any reason to call my behaviour scummy? I'd love to hear that argument. With your second to last post, you very conveniently bundled me and two other players together into a supposed scum group in an attempt to keep all of us from reviving. You've made a point to bury M4yhem as well.

Why do I think this is scummy? Because it's in the best interest of the town to actively look for town players, and it is not in the best interest of the town to bury players for all eternity. I'm not saying we should not be looking for scum tells. We obviously shouldn't vote for someone we think is scum. But all lordy is doing is spreading distrust amongst the town, instead of making an effort to actually revive a town player.

[CrashTextDummie]

You call me a sissy. Is that a valid accusation in a mafia game?

Of course it is.

So you want to revive without reason? Sure, go ahead and play the scum way.

You still have not provided a valid reason for why my playstyle in this game is supposedly "the scum way". All you say is that you won't revive people without a reason and that you won't revive players with no support. In no way have you even attempted to explain why my plan is so anti-town. On the other hand, my point still stands: You are sabotaging well-spirited town-revivals and you can't even come up with a reason.

CDT, remember this about Mr. C. He could be hinting at being a power role. Now let's assume he is one. We revive him, but he doesn't claim, we don't know for sure. He's revived, but we probably won't have a doc. Night hits. Mafia kills Mr. C. BIG power role dead. So even if Mr. C. is protown, how do we benefit from his revival on the off chance that we do happen to also revive scum?

This has got to be the most ridiculous reason not to revive someone ever. What's your plan, champ? Leave all the power roles in the safety of limbo untill they don't matter anymore? We don't know what role, if any, Mr. C has. According to his word, he HAS to be revived. Why, we don't know. The mafia doesn't know either, so they don't know if he is worth a hit. Therefore, he's a pretty perfect revival candidate, if you ask me. There are only two reasons I hear to justify not reviving him, and they're both flawed

1. He could be mafia/he's probably mafia based on his playstyle:
I don't think so. There has been very little support for him (none, before I threw the idea out there), but there are a suspicious amount of people willing to bury him.

2. He wouldn't be of any use once he's revived/he would screw up in the voting process:
At the current moment, I don't trust any of you guys to show good judgement upon revival. There are those with generally good ideas and those with generally bad ideas, but no one in this town seems to really have a good grasp of the game right now (myself included). And of course, there are those who are purposely deceitful. So while we have no indicator of where Mr. C stands, thinking that he would be bad at voting just based on that would be foolish. I could deny my vote to every single player on the basis that I don't trust their judgement.

Having said all that, it’s true that Lordy is not being wildly helpful; but the same could be said about you. I know you have the capacity for reasoned arguments so how come you are acting so flaky?

I am helpful. I'm trying to revive a pro-town player.

[CrashTextDummie]

Cool, Mr. C has become useful. I'd like to hear more from Zindaras (a list of suspicion would be useful), but he's still at the top of my revival list. I'd probably support a C_D wagon as well.

[CrashTextDummie]

Nice analysis, Zindaras.

Vote: Zindaras

And since I like you so much, I'm gonna adress this as well:

This post set off an alarm. Not liking c_d, as stated before. Throwing in a player who was very unlikely to be revived to not make it seem he was supporting c_d only would be a good idea.

I'll say this again: I was dead serious about reviving Mr. C, and I'm equally serious about reviving you. And it's quite natural to have a second choice if your preferred revivee isn't going to make it, wouldn't you agree?

[CrashTextDummie]

Two facts:
1. At least two of our three living must be town, otherwise, the game would be over.
2. We

might

be in "revive or lose", so please be careful with your votes, my red-blooded fellows.

I have a couple of questions for a couple of people:
Zindaras - Which role do you deem more useful for the town in general and in this particular situation: doc or roleblocker? Don't be shy to provide some reasons.

al_kohaulec (this has been the first time I was able to spell your name without looking it up, btw) - Could you elaborate on these "scummy vibes" you've been getting from me? And do you believe Zindaras' cop claim?

I'll be back when I've gotten these questions answered.