Mini 1336 - Revolution Mafia Game Over!
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implosion he/himPolymathhe/him
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implosion he/himPolymathhe/him
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In post 39, Elmo TeH AzN wrote:Implosions always scum when I've played with him. As for the rest massive headache going to dr more later
Wrong. We were both town in Otters vs Tigers vs Sharks. Plus the only games I remember that you were in are that and chesskid's ipick (which I was indeed scum in).
kanye, yes, it was chair. Although it was barely a hydra. I did around 90% of the posting in both of the games that it was in.
Llamarble wrote:Leading off with some kind of planned early game, talking about mechanics and I think I'd be paying slightly more attention to Spyrex unvoting as scum.
Actually, the 'social experiment'shouldbe seen as a nulltell. I was planning to say it before I got my role PM. I can point out a towngame (most notably, cyclic experiment 2) where I very heavily talked about mechanics in one of my first few posts. Also, what does "slightly more attention" mean? I paid just enough attention to see it as notable.-
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don't make me make a case on you-
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MattP wrote:
He seems too enthusiastic to me, seems too quick to call someone town (darox) making it seem like he knows something we don't, especially since I don't agree with his reasoning.
TownLlama is enthusiastic from what I remember. Don't remember early play/how quick he is to call people town. On the other hand I've never seen him as scum.-
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Why? Every one of BB's posts so far are things that he would have said as town or scum.-
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In post 136, BBmolla wrote:Vijay your analysis of us being different alignments makes no sense. Just saying.
This. Actually, mathematically speaking, you canneveridentify two people as being different alignments more strongly than you can identify one of their alignments on its own. For instance, say that you're 70% sure that X is town and 60% sure that Y is scum. Then the probability that they have differing alignments is (.7*.6)+(.4*.3) = 54%. More than that, it's logically provable that there are no "they have different alignments" tells (that is, there's no reliable way to say 'i'm X% sure that these two players have different alignments' without saying how likely you think each of them are to be each alignment. Basically, scumhunting ought to start on the individual scale.
Also, criticizing vijay for voting me without calling me scum is plain reaching. Voting post-RVS in and of itself is a declaration of suspicion.-
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In post 139, MattP wrote:Add implosion to the pool of possible scum for his stupid wordy over explanations of anything and everything
That's just something I like to do for fun. I can provide past examples if you want me too.-
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No.
Saying "I just feel BB and implosion have different alignments" is unacceptable.
It has exactly as much merit as the statement "I feel an asteroid with mass at least 7 kg will hit the earth some time between 6.04 and 6.05 million years from now."
This isregardlessof how you ascertained your answer.
I'm not saying this just because i like to argue logic - if we allow people to use "I think one of x and y is scum" as an argument, it allows scum to chain-push two people without any accountability until they both flip town. Essentially, it gives them a free ride for two days (or more than that if both the targets stay alive longer) by just saying "well one of them is scum, one flipped town, let's lynch the other now."
Unsound conclusions can never have sound reasoning. I don't even need to know what your reasoning is to know that it's wrong. Even if one out of me and BB winds up being scum,your reasoning is still wrong.-
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I can see kuriboscum.
BTW if two players are independently very scummy but also very unlikely to be scum together a 'one of these is scum argument' can be legit.
Agreed. This isn't how vijay was thinking about it, as his 60%-40% statement shows.
Matt, telling me to adjust my scumdar because I don't think that one random tell has as much weight as you're saying it should is a bit... what's the word. Patronizing? Don't you think?-
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Yeah, I've been trying to post but i haven't really had the morale to start actually figuring things out. But Darox saying that I provided no reasons of my own for the kuribo vote is... yeah. no. i did. they just weren't very good.
Today, I have to work. Tomorrow, I'm also going to have to work. I'll be slowly gaining morale over this week, most likely. I'm graduating from high school in about a week... so yeah.
vijay might be scum.-
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In post 195, kuribo wrote:are you trying to fit in because you're scum and the player list makes you nervous?
None of the three things in this sentence are true of me.-
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In the order that I read them for some reason (isos):
vijay: meh. I can see him as scum, i can see him as town. A lot of things he's said seem manufactured (his first vote, the thing about me vs bb, the second line of post 79 which seems preemptive sort of, although he might have misconstrued what Matt said in the previous post). Other things seem genuine. Or at least I think they do the first time I read them, and then they don't. Like This. So I guess I'd put him as scummy.
MattP: townier than I think I thought he was before, but not so much that I'm in agreement with Llama that he's obvtown.
Spyrex is kind of giving me some of the same disgustinggutscumvibes that he gave me in the only other game i've played with him (in which he was scum). Can't pinpoint it. Other game, I could. He might have just been readable as a fluke in that game. Looked at random towngame (league mafia) of his, don't get the same gut ping, but that might be bias. Shmr. Dunno.
Darox is still town
Elmo is nulltown
kuribo is a scum candidate. His marble push is feeling more and more meh as i read further into it. It feels... insistent, in a way. Disingenuous in a way. I feel like he's inflating the importance of certain things more than he should be. 286, for instance. I mean, sure, the point is valid - but insofar as Llama has been contributing, and contributing more than many people in the town, calling him scummy for also talking about how hehasbeen contributing, especially after Fate called him out on it, is just... meh, nah. I don't think it's a genuine attack. For some reason I feel like kuribo should be scum here. But there are also attacks on Llama that look genuine. 227 for instance. I think the llama-attack-brigade (spyrex, kuribo, fate) is giving me bad vibes (except i haven't read fate yet so i guess i'll do that next) for some reason. Maybe because I've been thinking llama is town and that the amount of pressure he's under is a bit strange. On the other hand the scumvibes from spyrex weren't really from his llama vote so meh.
Fate. Posts 95-97 remind me of spyrex-scum. Of course in this game townlists are actually really important so etc. Actually after reading fate kuribo looks very good in comparison. In 272, Fate criticizes Llama for talking about contributing rather than contributing. Up until that point, Fate's contribution to the game was essentially an amalgam of reads. Those reads all lacked explanation. He had placed several votes, called several people town. Reasonless voting is something I'd expect to see to some extent from townFate, but not this much, and especially not with the very first explanation being a criticism for lack of contribution.
So at this point, Fate's probably scummier than kuribo. That one post from kuribo just feels genuine, so I think he's town for now. There's probably scum in {fate, spyrex, kuribo}. Right now, I'd say that scum is, in decreasing magnitude of likelihood, fate, spyrex, kuribo. Someone is going to accuse me of setting up lynches for saying this~ although there could actually be two scum on that wagon, potentially.
BB: Town enough for now.
kanye: null. I think I'm probably going to be bad at reading him in general, too. I think I have a tendency to find his posting style scummy, which I'm trying to compensate for.
Voided: TML was scummy, Voided is also kind of scummy (really don't like 338, particularly the way over-complicated justification for the vijay vote). Actually, looking a little more closely, he says that the lineup of BB, Spyrex, Implosion, Matt, Darox, and Fate looks like "not a bad lineup" except for BB. But two posts earlier in his list of reads... 1, he described me as being like BB. 2, he said matt was scummy. 3, his only comment on Fate was negative. So uh... yeah, he says that this list of people isn't bad immediately after criticizing/scumreading 2/3 of the list. He called spyrex and darox town, but eugh. Cognitive dissonance? Not sure what's going on there, exactly.
HC: nulltown.
So, my scumreads consist of probablyFate, Voided, and Vijay.-
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So they were impressions.
So you said that the list of people whom your impressions of were mostly negative was a good list because ________
I mean, even if they were impressions... saying that you think the list isn't bad is kind of strange when you still have negative impressions of the majority of the list, wouldn't you say?-
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Meh. It's probably the scum's doing.
I was compromised. I have no clue what it means. I'm kinda guessing that it means that missions won't work if I'm on them, maybe? I was a little afraid that I might have been recruited or something, but this isn't a bastard game so etc.
It might be the equivalent of a nightkill. Although I really don't see myself as a likely nightkill candidate last night. If, by some chance in hell, there is a redirector who redirected someone to me last night... claiming might not be a bad idea.-
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Yeah. That's what I mean when i say it might be the equivalent of a nightkill. Scum might lack a factional kill, but have a factional compromise that does... something.
I have a hunch, by the way. I feel like if there was exactly one scum in the mission pool, they'd have sabotaged. One scum out of six people? Whynotsabotage? The odds of being lynched would be low as hell anyway, and they'd have no reason to risk seeing what advantages the town could game. So I'm inclined to say that either no scum is in the pool (obviously, in this case, it wouldn't be sabotaged) or that there are multiple scum in the pool, in which case they probably wouldn't sabotage so that the scum in the pool can gain towncred.
That said, I'm not sure which situation is more likely.-
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Let's say that the scum are planning on never sabotaging. Then, in theory, our goal would be to have as many town on each mission as possible so as to maximize the amount of townies who gain towncred by being on successful missions or who gain rewards from those missions.
I really don't see how shifting the roster will allow us to PoE the scum, Darox. Could you elaborate? Obviously, if they sabotage, then we get a list of people that will contain scum - but that's just what we get. One list. Even if scum sabotage a mission, that gives us absolutely no guarantee that they'll sabotage any other missions in the future.-
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And Voided, saying "well that's not what I meant" when what you meant isdamn cleardoesn't change shit.
It's factual that you essentially said that you liked a list full of people that you called scummy.
It's my opinion that this is a very, very significant scumtell, involving cognitive dissonance (not expressing opinions in accordance with reads) and, at worst, a sheer contradiction.
You stated that you thought the lineup was goodwhile your reads from 17 posts ago had indicated that you thought most of the lineup was bad.It does not matter if your opinions of those people changed after post 338; at the time of writing, your posts were explicitly contradictory to your stance on the mission.-
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In post 405, vijay2vasandani wrote:don't think you're allowed to copy that out though.
He thought that something which was actually public information was private information; i.e., that only townies were told what he was told.-
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In post 513, kanyeknowsbest wrote:implosion which vm posts are you referring to?
In post 321, Voidedmafia wrote:That's gonna have to wait now. There's a single-day LoL tourney tomorrow (today?) that I'm in that I need to get a little bit more training in for, so I'm going to devote most of today and tomorrow to that. Anything else I do over here will either be for the Open I'm in or for the Open I'm modding. I will get back to you as soon as the tourney ends, though. I have been watching from the beginning, though, so I'll give some simple thoughts from what I remember:
BBmolla isn't even here and needs to be. Not sure if it's null-lurking or scumlurking right now, so that'll require a reread.
Darox, IIRC, was okay. Slightly on the town side.
Don't really remember Elmo.
Lack of Faterage aside, I'm not really liking his attempt to discredit Marble's point of quoting his ISO. Not that I disagree that it's a bad thing, but I don't think it's THAT bad.
GreyICE is always scum.
Don't remember anything from Hendric. Like, at all. I have this vague town feeling from him, but that's about it.
Implosion is in the same boat as BB, I think, though not as bad. Still needs to do stuff.
Kayne is null.
Loudness (or lack thereof) aside, Kuribo is also null pending the reread.
MattP feels like scum.
You, Spyrex, lean town.
Vijay I'd only say town because I like him and all, but from what I recall he was really cheeky in a scummy way.
Again, this is basic stuff. Something more comprehensive will come sometime tomorrow.
In post 338, Voidedmafia wrote:Mission looks like it'll be BB, Spyrex, Implosion, Matt, Darox, and Fate. Not a bad lineup, cept for BB cuz he's not doing anything.
Went over Vijay's ISO. The early parts are bad (the don't/just typo, the 60-40 thing), and together are worth a vote, but I wouldn't push that to a lynch. However, considering that 247 attacks me and tries to get a chainlynch going on one of my sure townreads (Marble), I don't like it one bit.
Vote: Vijay-
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implosion he/himPolymathhe/him
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I accept the point on Fate, but not on Matt. I already explained that part to Matt himself. Besides, 4/6 isn't that bad.
Uh...
1) 4/6 isvery bad. Here, let's count up the reads that you gave in 321, counting lurkers (me/bb) as nullreads:
null/town/null/scummy/town/null/null/null/scum/town/town
5 null reads, 4 town reads, 2 scum reads. Hell, let's add you to that list. 1 confirmed town (fypov if you're town), 5 null reads, 4 town reads, 2 scum reads.
Out of this pool, the mission was 2 scum reads (BOTH of the people you listed as scummy, fate AND mattp), 2 null reads, and 2 town reads.
If you were to pick randomly out of that list, you'd expect to wind up with about .5 confirmed town, 2.5 null reads, 2 town reads, and 1 scum read.
In other words, .5 more confirmed town, .5 more null reads, and 1 less scum read.
In other words,picking randomly from your list of reads would have produced, on average, a better list, based on your reads, than the mission at that time.
Now you tell me that the mission is "not bad."
2)
Let's look a bit at the point about matt. Your response, as far as i can tell, was that your read on him was based on a loose read at the time.I don't care what it was based on. It's a fact that at that point in time, you had matt as a scumread.So yeah.-
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