Mini 326- Buffy Mafia-Game Over

[Sotty7]

Hey guys, I'm replacing Aelyn so I'm off to catch up. Should have something up tonight, if not tomorrow for sure.

[Sotty7]

OK I've had a read though and this is what I have come up with. After what happened yesterday my main suspicions lie with Adele and the way the Stevie lynch was handled and how she pressured Twito to hammer. I don't like it one bit.

I’m currently thinking that patterns are yet to truly show; not so’s we can tell with any certainty, anyhow. PBuG and Stevie’s behaviour on page one looks to me like the usual game-start mindless spamming. Y’know? Spamwise’s comments, similarly, look entirely innocuous to my eye, and don’t worry me. But LostProphet’s response then to Spamwise… I don’t like it, not at all. Eh. That does not necessarily imply the scumminess, though, of Lostprophet - or copycat Stevie; their response may be genuine. Nevertheless, I, apparently like PBuG, Spam and notguilty, do feel cautious of stevie and lostprophet. Since lostprophet said what he saw and gave reasoning, I trust him somewhat more.

I don’t know if the above paragraph makes any sense to any of you… suffice it to say,

small FOS: Stevie

Although this is a very wordy paragraph I do agree with her points on the early spamming behavior. It was harmless. What i find odd about all this is that rather commit to her points about Stevie and LP she throws a

small

FOS in Stevie's direction. That makes no sense to me and just feels all wrong. Scum weighing in on the first important point of the game without trying to look too eager perhaps? Perhaps I'm being overly paranoid about the use of the word “small”

OK more people come in and vote Stevie and I can understand why, players like that annoy me too, with the whole “I'm generating discussion” as an excuse to act scummy. That said, it looks like he archived his goal cause he's giving me things to work off.... anyway

I would also like an RC from Stevie.

What? Why? This is Adele's

very

next post. So we jump from a “well he's kinda suspicious” to a “Claim your role now!” with no explanation in between. I don't get that at all. I'm sure after reading this Adele you'll come up with a few great reasons why you wanted Stevie to role claim but my point is why did you not post those reasons there and then? In essence, your doing pretty much what Stevie was in that you're leaving no explanation for your actions. Not a good thing.

@notguilty: hmm... that makes sense (amending "vig" as "other power, eg vig or backup"), except I'd expect 3 mafia plus an sk. 4 anti-town, 4 vanilla seems most typical in minis; that'd make any non-power-claimant even odds scum or niceguy (

assuming

that's the setup; don't forget that outguessing the mod tends to be a bad idea)

Also, I have a strong feeling he is Faith. But I'm not sure what alignment Faith would be.

As I say, we don't know the setup. A rolename cop's a real possibility in a theme game, and Stevie knows it. His claim really gives us no additional info on his allegiance.

Although I'd expect to see Faith as a power.

The mention of vig brought it up - that fits her character

well (including the possibility of meaning to kill a bad guy but... oops! that's a nice-guy human! )

Unvote, vote: Stevie

That brings him back up to one short of a lynch

so no fair speedlynching then claiming ignorance after.

OK, after some speculating about the set up and agreeing he could be a vig, which is a pro town role you vote Stevie? Wha? I don't get the thought process here. Are you voting him because in your opinion you think Faith is more likely to be power role and so Stevie is lying about being a plain townie? If so, why not just say that. I see no mention anywhere that you find Stevie's actions so far scummy but you still drop a vote on him putting him one away from lynch. I don't like your reasoning and I don't like your little disclaimer attempting to sound pro town by warning everyone all it needs is one more vote for a lynch. It feels like your already trying to distance yourself from what you know will be a failed lynch. Your shifting the responsibilities of the lynch on to the next person to vote Stevie when really, all on his wagon are responsible for it.

Seems improbable to me... but then, improbable roles are far from unheard-of. I'll hold my vote for now, though.

This is reaction to Faith always being second to Buffy and so a townie . I don't agree that its improbable but this could just be your opinion,

or

you could just be keeping the heat turned up on Stevie. Maybe both.

The town talks about no one buying that Faith is just a simple townie. Nobody mentions that although Stevie acted crazy he didn't really have anything to gain from it. If he was scum he was drawing attention to himself and if he was town he would just make an easy lynch. Then Adele pops up again here and starts talking about Twito and to be honest I don't like this because I got a very strong pro town vibe from him while reading the game. I'm willing to put a little of that down to hindsight for me as I knew he was pro town, but still I felt nothing scummy from his posts. I also don't like this because she was trying to set up todays lynch as well and that's never a good thing. I think Twito gave valid reasons for why he was willing to believe Faith as a townie and Adele was looking to put pressure on one of the other active players to make them cave and hammer Stevie

Twito of course responds (with some good points) but then so does Adele here with some equally good points and this is where I doubt my instincts. But then Adele is a very good player from my experience so just because I can understand her reasoning doesn't mean I should buy it. Each paragraph is a good point until the end. She outlines that she believes Twito to be Stevie's scum partner and to me it feels like she's just applying more pressure to Twito to be the hammer vote by saying he's scum, so he'll say “no I'm not, look vote: Stevie”

Twito then almost explodes and posts against Adele, bringing up some good points but then gives into to the pressure anyway and hammers Stevie

Now it seems we gotta find out whether Stevie is town or mafia so lets find out.
Hammer

Vote: Stevie

And Adele you can be sure I'm after you tomorrow.

Almost as a way to prove he is not scum. It's a shame he didn't stick to his guns and that nobody else really backed him up against Adele because I personally think he was on to something. Also he ends up dead during the night. Maybe Adele and her scum buddies decided to off him or the other killing group decided to make Adele look bad and kill him off instead. Either way, with how day one went Adele is looking quite bad in my eyes.

Now LP and Adele seem to be arguing over something, but to be honest, the whole exchange confuses me. I'm not quite sure what they are arguing over but it's interesting to watch. I had a few suspicions about LP mainly because I couldn't remember anything that he really did in the game. Going after Adele is the right thing in my mind, but the way he did was a little strange, to me anyway.

I realize this post is long for a fist real post into a game and for that I'm sorry, I just had a lot to say about Adele. As for the rest of the town

PBuG – Not a whole lot of content but pretty constant. Keeping a vote on a claimed mason is a little iffy but understandable seeing how Spam has been playing

Lostprophet – Seemed to miss most of day one and gave up on Adele once she started to pressure him. I'd like to hear more form him on who he thinks is scummy and why

Pug89 – Lurker. Need more posts and content from this guy. After his quick vote of Spam putting him one away from lynch I think he's likely to be Adele's scum partner.

SpamWise – Acted scummy then claimed mason. Claim fits his actions sadly as I've seen masons play this way just because they have something to fall back on

notguilty – The game speculation is never good and seemed a poor reason to keep a vote on somebody. Joined Adele in the attack on LP with a dose of OMGUS in there. I don't like what I have seen and I think he's possible scum.

So after all that

Vote: Adele

Mainly for the poorly reasoned vote on Stevie combined with asking for a role claim when having no real reason to do so. The stuff with Twito is all really conjecture, even I'll admit that, but it all adds up and I think she is the scummiest player in the game right now, so most likely to be scum. Hence my vote.

[Sotty7]

So. With 5 votes, and at least one person who only unvoted him in order to give him a chance to defend himself / RC (RC's having been mentioned already by Twito twice), after Stevie presented what appeared to be the length and breadth of any defence he was likely to, you think it's scummy not to give a blow-by-blow of why I want an RC?

What I think is scummy is the fact you never said anything like – “gonna defend yourself Stevie?” or “Wow that's a lot of votes in such a short space of time, can someone unvote so Stevie can at least try and defend himself?” You just wanted a roleclaim, even though

you

weren't voting him at the time. Hell I might have even let you off if you had said you were thinking of voting him, but nothing.

That's

what I find scummy.

Bullcrap; I am not. I am closing the door on a pseudo-accidental lynch. Absolutely, all on the wagon are responsible (including your predecessor), but some are more responsible than others and it's pretty common for scum to drop the hammer out of the blue and then say they didn't realise that was a lynch. I've seen it happen more than once, and I'm still pretty new.

Actually, I can buy this. I just found that comment scummy once I tied it in with everything else. It just gave me a bad feeling.

What? Wait, I raise many valid points against Twito, present my conclusion, because I am scum hoping against hope that Twito (who, according to this theory, I know to be innocent) will act in a scummy manner and lynch someone just to look more innocent to the rest of us? That was not the pro-town response to my accusations of him. What's my next cunning manouvre? Get some cops to claim different results than those they got?

I honestly did not find Twito scummy at all from reading his posts. But like I said in the last post I already knew him to be pro town so I'm willing to believe some of my feelings of him being innocent was because of that, but still I don't think Twito was scummy for not revoting Stevie and he seemed to be the only person willing to buy his role claim and he did give reasons why based on the timing of the series. Basically, I don't agree you had valid points against Twito. That's the whole point of this little theory of mine.

This is where the whole thing falls apart. That makes no sense.
In the hypothetical where I am scum, what am I doing? Taking pains to stand out, accusing a twonie pair of being a scum pair (so that when one dies, the accusation will lose all authority), desperately attacking one person in the hopes that they'll hammer another (an unproductive reaction) and then killing that person in the night because...? How does his death make me look bad?I don't get it.

Yeah I agree with this. This whole part is WIFOM anyways so it's not worth basing an opinion off that alone.

I don't like how he targeted Spam and I don't like how he's targeting me - "I agree with above" posts are a tell, especially when the argument's as weak as I think sotty's accusation of me is.

I agree the whole “I agree with the above post” thing is a tell, but I don't agree my accusation is weak but then yeah, I would say that

SpamWise – Acted scummy then claimed mason. Claim fits his actions sadly as I've seen masons play this way just because they have something to fall back on

And it doesn't seem to fit his player profile to be that incredibly gutsy precedent-breaking scum who goes ahead and claims mason.

I've only played a few games with Spam so I wouldn't be able to say with my hand on my heart either way about this.

1. The problem with that is that there were clearly good reasons to vote for Stevie - else how did he hit a majority? My reasons were fairly well represented, I think... he seemed scummy prior to the RC, and then the RC seemed very improbable to me. I'm a huge Buffy fan, and Faith as a vanilla? Pfff. Possibly a vig, yes, but Stevie claimed vanilla and no townie would ever lie, right? (Okay, that's me being idealistic, sorry)

He seemed

slightly

scummy to you remember? The small FOS? Then when you voted him the reasoning was weak. You agreed he might be a vig and still voted. You didn't push or probe for more info you just speculated about the setup and bam a vote. Almost out of nowhere I'd say...oh no wait, you covered you bases with that FOS right? Never did you say he was scummy, I guess that's my biggest problem with this.

However, your point about LyLo causes me to

Unvote

for now. I'll wait for the rest of the town to weigh in and see if any new points can be brought up. Once that's done, I'm sure my vote will be heading back in your direction Adele because no one struck me quite as scummy as you have.

Why was my vote quick? SpamWise had continuously been accusing me since immediatly after my first post in this game and has given only his gut feeling as reasoning. Him attacking me as aggressivly as he has for nearly the entire duration of the game so far without any susbtantiation reeks of scummy activity to me. He had plenty of opportunity to give reasons for his suspiciouns yet failed to do so and when forced to his answer doesn't provide any actual reasoning.

It was quick to me because you hadn't posted much in the game and then you sandwiched one of Spam's posts with a vote. Just felt quick on my read.

SpamWise has accused me of being scum throughout the game with no reasoning given behind these accusations.

Vote: SpamWise

I'm aware that this puts him one away from a lynch but his continual accusations without anything to back them up make me very suspicious of him.

To me it reads as a OMGUS vote that puts him one away from a lynch, in my book to put someone so close to lynch you should want a better reason than...”Oh well he suspects me so now I suspect him.”. I get it's annoying that he gave no reasoning or anything, but you didn't even try and pin him for scum I just didn't like how quickly you were willing to risk the town. That's why I find you scummy. Also not commenting on this whole Adele situation looks pretty bad for you too.

[Sotty7]

Hello...rest of the town?

FOS: Adele

- Just to keep the pressure there.

Maybe some prods are in order? Spam hasn't posted for a week now

[Sotty7]

What reasons? Here's everything you said about LP

Vote: lostprophet

DAMN CODING. I'M NOT YOUR BITCH, BITCH. (I've always wanted to say that...)

Lostprophet: Isn't coming off as town, in my opinion.

Unvote, Vote: lostprophet

If lostprophet can convince me that he himself is town, I'll change my vote.

I'm satisfied.

Unvote; Vote: lostprophet

Yeah....That's a whole lot of nothing.

FOS: PBuG

[Sotty7]

OK - Why isn't he coming off as town in your opinion?

[Sotty7]

The whole twito thing is very WIFOM and based on if this opinion is right then I can form this opinion and so on. So if I'm wrong about you being scum then, yeah it all falls apart. My big point on you is your vote on Stevie and I found that combined with how you acted towards Twito just made you look worse in my eyes. I think the FOS is fair enough but the way you handled my questions does set me at ease a little. Plus I agree with you that certain others are acting very suspicious.

PbuG, could you please come and answer my question? Pretty pretty please? I know you've been posting in at least one other game (because I'm reading it) so your extended absence + your recent actions is looking pretty bad.

I'll also second the call for

prods

on all

[Sotty7]

OK - Why isn't he coming off as town in your opinion?

I reread the entire thread and I thought the scummiest person was lostprophet because of certain things he did and said.

What things? Can you quote them for us and say why they came across as scummy? Not posting your reasons is pretty scummy especially when you said you posted some reasons when it turns out..you didn't. Seeing a players thought process helps the town as a whole and also me figure them out a little.

[Sotty7]

Vote: PBuG

You don't have time to find his posts? How hard is it to click on "see all posts by LP" and shift though them? He has hardly posted anything with a grand total of ten posts. It's been a week and I really think I've caught you in a jam and your just stalling for MORE time.

Where is everybody else?

[Sotty7]

Mod

– Did you prod the other players? It's starting to feel like just three of us are playing here, four counting Spam coming back recently.

Now PbuG, how hard was that? I am very uncomfortable as to how long it took you actually answer my question, and your general avoidance just gives me bad feelings all over. It took you almost two weeks to come up with that post, something that pings on my scumdar as you have been posting in other games all the while saying you have very little time. I'm not here to judge if that is true or not, but I think the time period (12 days) speaks for itself.

It's hard to play mafia when half the town hasn't posted enough in two weeks. I think it's highly possible we have some lurker scum out there number one on my list for that would be Pug89. Sure he has shown up since I replaced in but only to defend himself and he hasn't really contributed much to the thread at all. I guess the same could be said for LP and notguilty too... basically, could we have prods or replacements please?

[Sotty7]

...Why would you claim with one vote on you?

[Sotty7]

My problem is the people I find scummy are the ones lying low. In this case Pug and LP, so I'm not sure what to do. Do I vote for them for lurking? Do I PBPA the few posts they have? Do I hope they get prodded? Do I have chicken for lunch? So many questions, yet all the answers elude me.

Have chicken for lunch for sure. As for the rest... I feel your pain. I think it's very scummy of Pug89 to tell us he won't be posting for a few days when...he hasn't been post AT ALL. Makes me think that he has been reading along as we point fingers back and forth amongst ourselves.

FOS: Pug89

I'm glad the others have been prodded as I think we need some outside input/thought into what we've posted over the last couple of weeks, before we can really get anywhere.

[Sotty7]

And note that, as a bodyguard, I did not protect someone, I died in their stead.

Yes, but what if you were protected? If bodyguard targets doc and doc targets bodyguard, there's a feedback loop. If scum tries to kill bodyguard, he'd live, obv, but what if the scum targeted the doc? Logically, the doc's protection should save the bodyguard from the reflected kill.

Either way, it does seem to me a little unbalanced to have a doc and a bodyguard in the same game; potentially breaking in a mini.

This is really my sticking point with the claim. If PBuG

is

telling the truth, it suggests to me that we could have some real powerful scum out there. That said I don't think I have seen a mini with both a doc and a bodyguard, I don't like it one bit....

PBuG - Who did you protect on night one?

As for the chain claim, I don't oppose it but we are still missing a member of the town. If we all claim then we hit a wall we won't really have all the information when it comes to fake/counter claims with notguitly and Pug lurking like crazy. Day two seems a little early for a chain claim to be honest, but we are in quite a predicament though.

I'm not a Buffy nut, but I do watch it on occasion. I like the show but I don't have a great base of knowledge about the time line and what happens when.

[Sotty7]

OK.. I'll bite again. What about DAS actions don't you like PbuG?

I can see mass claim helping the current inactive state we find ourselves in but I still feel it's too early. That said I have no other real suggestions. I have found PbuG (taking FOREVER to answer my questions) and Pug (General lurking while giving the impression he is reading the game) suspicious today. I'm happy enough with Adele after I poked around when I first came in but that could always change.

How about everyone post their top two suspicious people and reasons why along with how they feel about a mass claim? As a way to spark some discussion.

[Sotty7]

Yay for replacements!

Adele is right, reasons why you find people suspicious is helpful for the game too...

[Sotty7]

Vote: PBug

For speculating on the makeup of the game in post 111 (which got my predecessor in trouble) and for his post 119 wherein he was confused by post 116.

Also I figure that with Willow being confirmed as cop, we probably wouldn't have 2 cops so believe that Spamwise was probably breadcrumbing a mason partner. So I am striking Adele and Spamwise of my radar (at least for now).

Now

that's

scummy-looking. Are you speculating on the identity of the co-mason there? If so, why do it publicly?

Spamwise post 116 said:

A

ll the vampires,

D

o humans much harm,

E

rgo they must be contained,

L

est they destroy us all,

E

ver live Buffy!
Alright it's crap, but I like it. Speaking of things I like, I like where my vote is right now. And I'm certain if you're vote was with mine you would be much happier as well. Unless of course you're scum buddies with Pug, in which case you'd be angry,

That seems pretty obvious to me that he had some sort of message to deliver and with twito/Willow's death confirming a cop role, I believe that he is either mason or scum. And let's be honest if he is mason and breadcrumbed that obviously...any scum who can't pick up on that may as well just give up now.

Take your pick.

OK that was really REALLY scummy. Why did you feel the need to "out" the other mason? Even after Adele posted and TOLD YOU what you were trying to do was scummy... I don't get it.

FOS: BrizzyBoi

[Sotty7]

I can't help but feel uneasy about a chain claim so early, but if everyone else is all for it then I have no problems. We have stagnated a lot with all the replacements and the claims could give us something to go off. I'm happy with Adele/Spamwise setting up the list and even recommending that BrizzyBoi go first after what just happened.

[Sotty7]

Well I'm Buffy from season five and the vig. I (Aelyn) killed Twito night two because I guess Aelyn felt that with everything that happened he was the most suspicious, I of course disagreed. This also means there is a SK because there were two deaths night one, neither of which I'm responsible for. I've been thinking a possible two man mafia + SK. This could explain the back up vig that BrizzyBoi claimed, because I have never seen anything like that before, but we could need the ammunition. That or he's the SK. Anyone else heard of a back up vig before?

Of course the second kill could be because the mafia had two kills for what ever reason, but I've never seen that in a mini game, just the big theme park ones.

Brizzy – Could we get more flavor with your role for those of us who don't know who Amanda is? I guess the same could be said for Pug89 too.

Claims so far

PBuG - Spike, Bodyguard + can't cast lynching vote
BrizzyBoi - Amanda (Potential Slayer) - Back up vig
Pug - Amy Madison, from season 1 - a townie.
Sotty (Aelyn) – Buffy - Vig

I'd like Davidangelsummers to go next.

[Sotty7]

I was thinking the same myself, in that we would be looking for people in the later seasons but then I remembered this

The sun rises yet again on another bloody mess.

Twito has been shot through the chest with a cross bow. He was

Role Name: Willow Rosenburg

(High School, pre-lesbian & witch era)

You are Willow Rosenburg, the typical nerd. You know, except for the fact that you and your friends kill demons and slay vampires. You really don't do much of the actual fighting though. You are more the type to sit around in the library and research whats going on. And thats what you do. Each night you may chose to research one person and find out some info about them, including if they are evil.

Summary: Cop
Goal: Eliminate the evil

Big Buffy fans correct me if I'm wrong (and I might very well be) but wasn't this Williow in the early seasons?

Adele + Spam – Everyone else has claimed now so feel free to put your roles out there too. Also, do you have mod assurance that your partner is innocent?

[Sotty7]

Unvote, Vote: Pug

Sorry if this is the hammer, but I think it's the right play.

Thankfully it's not... but after that insane attempt at the hammer/speed lynch, I'm starting to think that I should vig you tonight.

FOS: PBuG

I'd like to ask someone unvote so we can at least discuss who I should vig and reasons why. Hell even reasons why we should lynch Pug today. Personally now, I think it should be between Brizzy and PBuG. Brizzy has the weakest claim and PBuG was side stepping questions earlier on in the day and is now looking to speed lynch.

1. If Sotty is scum, then Pug is (99% sure to be) scum: it's faintly possible that armlx gave him a misleading pm stating that if Buffy died he'd become the vig but knowing that, since there's no Buffy in the game, there's no chance of him becoming vig. I don't buy that. Also, backup vig? Seems broken...

Do you mean Brizzy here? Cause he was the one who claimed back up vig. If not I'm confused.

[ungame related] Yeah I'm in Minnesota now been here about a year [/ungame related]

[Sotty7]

Sotty, did you at any point breadcrumb a Buffy-vig relationship? If so, that helps explain where brizzi could have got his claim from.

No breadcrums from me. I didn't really think I would need to breadcrum being Buffy in Buffy mafia. I really think Brizzy just took a shot in the dark with his claim and got lucky. I really think he is our SK or scum.

[Sotty7]

Well I'm Buffy from season five and the vig.

I (Aelyn) killed Twito night two because I guess Aelyn felt that with everything that happened he was the most suspicious, I of course disagreed. This also means there is a SK because there were two deaths night one, neither of which I'm responsible for.

I've been thinking a possible two man mafia + SK. This could explain the back up vig that BrizzyBoi claimed, because I have never seen anything like that before, but we could need the ammunition. That or he's the SK. Anyone else heard of a back up vig before?

Of course the second kill could be because the mafia had two kills for what ever reason, but I've never seen that in a mini game, just the big theme park ones.

Brizzy – Could we get more flavor with your role for those of us who don't know who Amanda is? I guess the same could be said for Pug89 too.

Claims so far

PBuG - Spike, Bodyguard + can't cast lynching vote
BrizzyBoi - Amanda (Potential Slayer) - Back up vig
Pug - Amy Madison, from season 1 - a townie.
Sotty (Aelyn) – Buffy - Vig

I'd like Davidangelsummers to go next.

Plus we did have a roleblocker that died night two, that could explain the lack of an SK if we assume the blood sucking to be mafia.

[Sotty7]

To be honest I could be SK or Mafia, but then my claim of vig would have been a little risky, how would I have know that this game didn't have one? That said I did claim next to last but still, it's something to consider.

I'm all for lynching Brizzy today as I don't like his recent attempts to latch himself onto me. He knows he's going down so forming a link between the two of us will land me in hot water tomorrow, if I'm not night killed that is.

It will be a hard choice for me between Pug and PBuG, I'd have to re-read. They both have points against them. I'd happily take out one of them though

[Sotty7]

I'm all but putting my vote on Brizzy in the next couple of hours or so.

I'd like to know if anyone has any preference over who I should vig between Pug and PBuG. I've pretty much made up my mind but any additional input would be welcome.

[Sotty7]

Unvote then and we'll sort it so you can cast the lynching vote. Great idea by Adele to test your claim.

[Sotty7]

Heh... I had fun replacing in with a pretty good claim if it ever came down to it. Knew I should have opted for Pug to kill then at least I could have take a fellow bad guy on my way out.

Good game guys, thanks armlx