Mini 291: Clue Mafia.....Game Over!

[kops]

i take it we just started then? fun

randomvote: MeMe

... yes that was truly random... okeydokey

(btw i have yet to be in a mafiagame in which i dont make the first post w00t)

[kops]

several, why do you ask?

unvote

OMGUS

vote: TSAGod

[kops]

now that you mention it....

unvote, vote: Mr. Flay

for keeping the mod in his basement...
ok, fine

unvote

only to avoid a speedlynch but IGMEOY =P

[kops]

just to clarify, the random thing meant that i spun my spinner to see who i was gonna vote and thats who it came up on... but ok sure
in seriousness though... admittedly i've never been in a game with him b4... but whats up with BJ, is this really normal? i mean "let's just finish off flay" sounds a little OTT and he seems to really want the day over quickly, im pretty close to voting him but i'll hold off for now and wait for someone to tell me if he's always like that

[kops]

ok... just checking... thats kind of stupid if hes town but w/e ill leave him alone for now i guess (and btw @BJ wtf does that even mean... it makes so little gramatical sense i cant even understand it)

[kops]

this game is starting to slow down... but anyway
i would agree with Flay's plan b/c it sounds like it could work save for one hitch... how are you going to coordinate which room you visit w/ whoever you are visiting it with without the mafia finding out, following you, and messing up the whole thing... possibly even killing both of you, since were still not sure how they kill. unless you have some way of communicating that the rest of us dont know about, i just dont see it working...
although... then again, i just thought why dont you just go by yourself? then you can give us the information without as big of a risk of you dieing since nobody will know what room you choose, im not sure how much benefit there is to taking someone with you

[kops]

eh? what do you call this?

let's just finish off flay....

id say thats pretty bandwagon pushingish...
honestly though guys.. can we please pick up the conversation a bit... this is really starting to drag a bit.. BJ is the biggest offender, not having posted in 3 days, im gonna pressure vote him soon if he doesnt post, MeMe also needs to post soon..
i think the main issue right now is who to lynch... we dont have much to go on right now but i think we can mostly agree to let Flay and elvis do their stuff tonight, so i think theyre both lynch-immune today for the most part
honestly, im not too full of ideas right now.. nobody stands out in my mind though atm, anybody else have any ideas?

[kops]

ok... first of all.. from what ive heard... didnt bj just do the

opposite

of what he usually does (as in jump off a bandwagon to someone with no votes)??? as i said, ive never seen him in a game before, but am i right here? seems kind of odd.. wont say its a scum tell for sure but definately worth nothing
second of all, @bj: i would appreicate a bit more of a reason as to why you voted me... again though, right now im not 100% sure who i should be voting for, but i think im gonna go with a

vote: TSAGod

because so far hes posted exactly twice.. once to vote me (although i do not hold that against him as it was the 2nd post of the game) and once to give us a list of characters....
im voting him for two reasons: a) lurker-pressure, b) im getting a bit of a bad vibe from him as he has contributed nothing to the discussion and has offered none of his own opinions
and WOW! i was just reading back to make sure i didnt miss one of his posts... and guess what... he never unvoted me! either he has some weird rule about his vote not counting or the mod messed up

mod can we clear this up please

, he was completely left off the first count (not on the voting list or the not voting list) but i think this is due to a look over by the mod... either way he is still voting me from a page one random vote and that will definately hold my vote till he posts more

[kops]

o ya, i meant to ask this in my last post but just realized i forgot: MeMe, why exactly did you vote TSAGod? i dont think "why not" is a good enough reason pg 5...

[kops]

i know why

I

voted him... i want to know why

she

voted him

[kops]

well, i guess like every1 else, i dont have too much to say, 'cept that im checking in and i still think we should at least pressure TSAGod to post some more, and i still think its kinda wierd he's still voting me from page 2 with no reason whatsoever, but as it doesnt really matter at this point i guess its not too big of a deal but still...

[kops]

@fuldu: im really not sure what youre talking about... first of all i mostly havent been suspicious of BJ except at first when i wasnt familiar with his tendencies...
as to TSAGod... why wouldnt i be suspicious? hes still random voting me... lol. either way there hasnt been much increased attention on me as far as i can see, except by BJ, but at the moment im not to worried about him

[kops]

ok, first of all, @TSAGod... i wasnt concerned about the vote, in fact if you actually bothered to read my posts... you would have noticed that i actually said:
[quote=kops]
but as [the vote] doesnt really matter at this point i guess its not too big of a deal but still
[/quote]
not only that, but you called my vote an OMGUS... notice how i also said:
[quote=kops723]
vote: TSAGod because so far hes posted exactly twice.. once to vote me (

although i do not hold that against him as it was the 2nd post of the game

) and once to give us a list of characters....
[/quote]
(italics by me) i was far more worried about the fact that you were still holding you random vote with no reason whatsoever than the fact that the vote was aimed at me
you

completely

twisted my words around to form the most crappiest logic ever... and in case it isnt obvious

reinforce vote TSAGod

@tamuz: firstly, youre right, i should be worried that BJ might be scum, i just meant i wasnt worried about the vote at that point.
looking back on things, it does seem a bit scummy with the bandwagon hopping he was doing, but to be honest, i really just dont see that big of a case against him. i am much more content voting TSAGod, or else switching to BJ at this point, but i suppose if somebody could do me a favor and provide a good analysis of why tamuz is scum, i will consider switching to him

lastly, i do find it a bit distressing that im one of the vote leaders with only one of the 3 people voting me actually having a coherent reason for voting me... it seems to me like if i get deadline-lynched, thats like turning a page one random vote bandwagon into a lynch. all this will accomplish is losing a townie and gaining no info whatsoever. i would like a reason out of BJ, and a proper reason from TSAGod that does not involve word-twisting or craplogic (note that i am

only

concerned about the vote b/c of the deadline...)

[kops]

ok, first of all, @TSAGod... i wasnt concerned about the vote, in fact if you actually bothered to read my posts... you would have noticed that i actually said:

but as [the vote] doesnt really matter at this point i guess its not too big of a deal but still

not only that, but you called my vote an OMGUS... notice how i also said:

vote: TSAGod because so far hes posted exactly twice.. once to vote me (

although i do not hold that against him as it was the 2nd post of the game

) and once to give us a list of characters....

(italics by me) i was far more worried about the fact that you were still holding you random vote with no reason whatsoever than the fact that the vote was aimed at me
you

completely

twisted my words around to form the most crappiest logic ever... and in case it isnt obvious

reinforce vote TSAGod

sorry fixed quote tags (btw if you were wondering i accidently put the 723 cause that was my old sn that i still use on several places, but i dropped it now)

[kops]

tamuz... in my opinion that last was really scummy, youre on the chopping block, we need a full claim right now or i'm lynching (although youre good as dead either way at that point).. making a statement like that is getting you absolutely nowhere and in my opinion thats one of the scummiest things you've said so far, if your next post doesnt have a full claim or a

really

good reason why you wont full claim, then im gonna lynch, and if you havent posted before 6:00 CST tomorrow ill lynch you anyway.
b4.. i didnt see you as all that scummy, but you just sent my scumdar through the roof

[kops]

scum maybe, but if he is vanilla then that is kind of odd to just flat out refuse to full claim... in fact i cant see any position

other

than scum to not full claim right now, (or at least say that he will at 5 votes, instead of flat out refusing)

[kops]

wow, flay youre right on two counts, one of which i didnt even notice before
first of all, you are correct in that my statement said youre as good as dead at THAT point, as in, if he didnt full claim, i was reasonably sure he would be our lynch

also, i didnt even notice bamboomancer hasnt been posting, but b/c of the deadline i agree he is not the correct lynch for today, but a thought for tomorrow

im up for a TSAGod lynch, although i suppose i cant argue w/ a tamuz lynch either... again i do see TSA as

slightly

more scummy at this point, aside from his lurkerness, so thats where im gonna keep my vote for now, but it is definately liable to a change

not 100% convinced on Tamuz coming to the conservatory as im not sure exactly what it will achieve other than the scum knowing that three of us are in the same room... that may very well not be a good thing (although i do doubt that they would be able to kill all 3 of you, still is dangerous), but we'll see how it works out

[kops]

now would also probably be a good time to say this, but I will be out of town for a week starting friday morning (ending next sunday i believe) and while it is likely that i will have internet access, it is not gauranteed. it is also possible that as we are driving, i will be unavailable until we arrive saturday evening, although im sure it will still be night at that point so its probably wont be too big of a deal if thats the case, i will post as soon as i have access but if i dont post for a couple real days after the night ends, i may have to be replaced unless you dont mind me being inactive for that long, ill keep you guys posted, and again i apologize, this trip didnt even cross my mind when i signed up a month ago
sorry all

[kops]

Well, a new player is (tautologically) more likely to make new player mistakes. For someone who's scum for the first time, these include overemphasizing that the reason for a vote is something small or silly, and backing away from a placed vote as soon as someone questions it. In kops case, he did these things with regards to votes on MeMe and on BJ and TSAGod, respectively. So there's that and then the fact that his posts make my eyes bleed.

Ok, if you want me to use proper capitalization fine, I'm just lazy.

As to the other stuff, i completely do not understand what youre talking about as far as voting someone and then backing away.
1) MeMe: random vote, I see absolutely no correlation between any given random vote and your argument
2) BJ, I don't believe I ever actually voted him, and either way, I was totally unfamiliar with his posting style, because yes, this is my first non-newb game on this site. From that point of view, you can't deny he looks scummy. If that bothers you, sorry, but I dont see how this one correlates with your argument either.
3) TSAGod, this one is the worst example out of the three. I have yet to back away from my vote on TSAGod, and at the moment I don't plan on it any time soon.

You really need to read through your posts before you use complete craplogic like that... and again, I won't deny that I am a newb, I have refrained from mentioning it b/c I know the "I'm a newb" card goes absolutely nowhere, and I would like to make it clear that I'm not playing it now. I'm sorry but I just really don't see where youre coming from with that argument at all.

btw, @elvis_knits, had I said "My spinner tells me that MeMe is scum so vote MeMe" (@mod this is not a vote, obviously), would that have been better for you? if so, i'll keep that in mind

As I said, I'm keeping my vote on TSAGod for now, with the possibility of switching to Tamuz. Clearly, there is nobody else right now that is worth voting simply b/c it wouldn't get anywhere what with the deadline.

[kops]

I still dont think most of your argument holds much water
First off: if I wanted a bandwagon on MeMe, why would i unvote her two posts later?

Second off, I personally have never seen a random-vote bandwagon turn into a lynch so I fail to see how this would be a valid tactic

Third: about BJ, I don't see where the accusation is at all. The bandwagon pushing statement was simply a response to Tamuz, and I never accused him of anything other than lurkiness. As for the second quote, yes, that was aggresive, but when he does something that I see as weird, am I not allowed to call him on it?

Lastly: TSAGod, yes youre probably right about

that

pattern, but I admit I probably attempted to pull more out of the fact that he was still random voting me than there actually existed, so when i realized this, I became more passive, attacking him only on his lurkerness (I now see I failed to mention this clearly enough).
I really only became aggresive towards him again when he used craplogic to attack me, at which point he started to seem much more scummy to me so I attacked him again, and why can't I be aggressive towards two people at the same time? Just because I think Tamuz is scum doesnt mean i suddenly think TSAGod is town...
and as for your last statement, I never insisted I've been aggressive about TSAGod, I've been insistent that I haven't

unvoted

him... big difference, one is opinion, the other is pure fact

Oh, and somewhat unrelated question, why would I want to get rid of MeMe if I were scum? (I suppose I can assume then that she is considered a good player, but either way I didn't know that, damn my spinner for picking a suspicious target, rofl)

[kops]

wait, is the deadline over now (i'm not in default time so i honestly dont know what it is)

[kops]

well, i guess as my post is marked 4 hours after bigAl's (assuming he knows what he's talking about) I guess that makes it over, nvm then

[kops]

ok, i'm here
I, too would like to know why bamboo is against saying the room he went to
I will refrain for now as well, but if anybody has any valid reason to want to know, I will say where I went (I was here just long enough to send in my choice)
In fact, I'm actually wondering if a mass room claim will get us anywhere, although since we still are unsure how scum kill, it actually may do little.
Another thing I was thinking about is if all of us went to the same room... under the (somewhat large) assumption that the doc protects everone in the same room as him, then it seems the scum can't actually kill anyone... on the other hand, that does seem like something the mod would protect against for balance reasons, so maybe that wouldn't work either... something to think about though

Oh, haha, I just noticed Flay came up with the same idea... I definately think we should consider this

Well, those are my ideas for now, I'm actually not too suspicious of anyone for the moment (assuming bamboomancer can give us some sort of reason for refusing to tell us his room), but we'll see how things go

[kops]

I've been thinking a little about a mass room claim (from last night), while there is a chance it won't yield anything, it's also possible that we might be able to find a pattern from it. Perhaps we can determine must-be-in-the-same-room kills if we notice a lot of rooms had only one person in them or maybe some other possibility. Unless somebody can point out what harm might come of it, I don't really see much of a downside.

[kops]

OK, I suppose that's a good point, but I am a little confused as to why you say they are more likely to find out why there wasn't a kill.
As far as I can see, here are a couple scenarios:
1) Kill in the same room--that means they

probably

pick one person to get a list of who is in the room w/ them or something of the sort, so they would already know who was responsible for blocking them (assuming of course there is a same-room block as well)
2) Kill in a different room--I see no reason why they wouldn't have just targeted the conservatory, knowing people were in there, in which case again, theyre not going to learn much of anything that way either

although i suppose on the other hand, depending on how it all works, they could lie... perhaps if anybody knows which room certain other people were in (e.g. they used in ability to determine, for examples sake BJ was in the dining room), maybe they should speak up. Of course it's possible that role doesnt even exist in this game (I will say that's not my role), but if it does, it may be worth it to have them come out.

I guess overall, we really don't know whether it would help or hurt us, but its definately something to think about maybe for the endgame, if not now.

[kops]

Did you just claim vanilla BJ?

[kops]

Good point... that was kinda a stupid question...

[kops]

well, before we even consider putting on the lynch vote, we need to make sure there isn't anything we need to talk about regarding rooms...
Most importantly I think, do we want anyone in specific to go with Flay tonight?

Possibly

have him announce his room and have the doc go there (w/o saying who they are obviously). In fact, I think that might work best b/c assuming the mafia need to submit a room to kill in (which I think is a fair assumption)... even if the doc does die, we catch a scum. I'm guessing the scum wouldn't want that to happen, which leaves 7 rooms for 4 townies to hide in, which is slightly better than 8 rooms for 6 of us (assuming there are 3 scum.. although in a game this size I suppose 2 is a possibility...)

I also thought about a couple more people going w/ Flay but I think there must be some counter-measure against all-in-one-rooming so the doc probably gets less powerful when there's more people in the room, or something like that... so I think it best to limit it at most at 3.

Any thoughts from anyone else?

[kops]

I was actually going to request that he claimed in my previous post but I decided against it b/c it will do absolutely nothing for us as far as I can see (unless we catch him under LaL but that won't happen b/c he has nothing to hide...)

[kops]

How does kops plan allow us to confirm Flay without revealing the doc? What does Flay say tomorrow? "Yes, I saw someone take an action last night, but I'm not going to say who because they're probably the doctor. But now you believe my claim, right?"

I think having Flay indicate which room he visited the preceding night and whether or not he saw someone take an action is the best way to start. Then, if someone with an action was in the room, they'll be in a position to contradict him, where appropriate. It'll take longer and we'll run the risk of having him in a room with no one with a night choice, but it also increases the likelihood that he sees scum do something. Eventually we'll be able to confirm him or decide that there's insufficient evidence to back his claim. But he's far more useful to us if everything isn't planned out than if we (and scum) know exactly where he's going to be and how to avoid him.

That is a good point, Fuldu, but I think it boils down to the pros and cons of each course of action.
If Flay reveals his room choice:
pros: 1)I'm guessing the doc has to know which room he's sending his protect to even if he isn't there himself so Flay will live.
2) We can probably protect at least 1-2 other townies by having them go to the same room as Flay... although that would be difficult to organize unless there's somebody we want to send specifically (and giving him a chance to clear himself which is definately good).
3) Scum have a lower chance of finding

other

townies b/c there's a lower townie:available room ratio

Cons: 1) scum know where to go to avoid being caught...

Unless I'm missing some cons here, it seems to me the pros outweigh the con(s?). Well I think it's at least something we need to decide before anyone is lynched, BJ or otherwise.

[kops]

True, I might be... but I think it's fairly reasonable to assume same-room protect based on our apparent cop mechanic (and I doubt Flay would have just randomly picked that method of investigation if he does turn out to be lying... he must have had some basis due to how the scum kill, although I do highly doubt he's lying anyway doubt)
But anyway, even if the doc sends a name to protect... Flay still lives, so unless you see another possible doc mechanic, I don't see why it matters.

[kops]

I see one downside: it may out the doc to the mafia while leaving the town in the dark (yes I know I'm still making assumptions about the doc, but like I said, it

may

not will)

Other than that though, sounds like it could work

[kops]

how bout we vote on it? majority rules
I vote aye

[kops]

wait, I'm confused...
Flay where did that vote come from??

[kops]

Yeah.. I don't see how BJ claiming matters.... Clearly no one character in this game is any more likely to be scum than any other (assuming everyone's character is a color character), so I'm more for lynching BJ right now than possibly outing a power role... BJ hasn't done much to convince me of his towniness even if he has claimed...

[kops]

That's not what I meant... you're misunderstanding me

I said I'd rather lynch

you

, who I think is scum, than start an entirely new bandwagon on somebody else, who I don't even find quite as suspicious (Elvis_Knits at this point, although even if that changes, I still find you somewhat more suspicious than anyone else, though not enough to warrant a vote yet)

[kops]

whoa, that's not what i said
the "you" was aimed at BJ, not E_K, I don't think [E_K] is all that suspicious right now...
I will post my argument against BJ in a little while, I'm kind of overloaded w/ HW right now though but I'll attempt to do it by tonight

[kops]

OK, I know this sounds rather scummy, but I've been reading back on BJ's earlier posts, and I've decided that I'm actually not all that suspicious of him anymore. Basically, all his day 1 and early day 2 posts consisted of "pretty sure PLAYER X is scum" or else a random vote, but recently he's been busy defending himself. Sure this seems scummy to me, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt based on how everybody has said that he always acts like this even when he's town.

His forgot-my-nightchoice-claim sounds iffy, but I have a gut he's telling the truth, and I don't think a scum would forget considering they must have discussed room choice with each other. So by that logic, I think it's a good assumption that if he really did forget, then he isn't scum.

I guess I must have let myself be "brainwashed" in a way since everybody was voting him/saying he was scum, but looking back, I've decided I don't really agree. If necessary, I could go with it on an "unhelpful person" standpoint, and hope he was lieing about forgetting his room choice (but this only as a last resort). But for the most part, unless there really isn't a better option, I'd rather look elsewhere for a lynch.

I'm not too suspicious of anybody right now, but since there seems to be a good case against E_K, I'll go back and read his posts and post my thoughts. Ditto Bamboo

[kops]

actually, like i said, I didn't find you all that scummy b4, but over the last page (13 on default settings), I've been leaning more towards you being scum
Your attack on MeMe

was

extremely weak. I mean, you're voting her for misunderstanding Flay... You're also voting her for being pro-lurker lynch, which IMO is not a scum trait. Many people (myself included, in fact even this game) are both pro-town and pro-lurker lynch, and sure sometimes it doesn't work out, like TSA, but sometimes you catch a scum and either way at least you're lynching an unhelpful person. Neither of your arguments against her seem to mark her as very scummy, yet you seem to be determined to start a bandwagon on her.
I admit, I can't really make a case for why MeMe would be town, and I won't deny she

might

be scum, but I can say that even if she is scum, your reasoning is not very good.
I think for now I will

vote E_K

. Before anyone jumps on me for passive-aggressive crap or whatever, like I said, I wasn't suspicious until the last page or so, but you have managed to change my mind.

[kops]

yeah, i am getting more and more sure about E_K, i think its claim time
we'll see what happens next i guess

[kops]

elvis.. did you just tell him to lynch you? curious... not sure what to make of this, but most of the time i see people make suicide pacts like that, they turn up scum.

[kops]

damn... i coulda sworn i posted earlier.. maybe i didnt hit the submit button or something. Well anyway here's the gist of it:

Basically I agree on flay's first point.. there really isn't any reason to lynch a claimed doc right now, unless there's a counter-claim or something of the sort.

However, I'm not so sure about his 2nd point, i don't think bamboo should just come out and claim because there's a small chance we can catch scum claiming something that incriminates them based on bamboo's choice (granted, this isn't all that likely since we dont even know how scum kill.. but you never know)

Lastly... BJ: you are DEFINATELY NOT confirmed. Just 'cause you say you forgot a room choice doesn't mean you really did, and even assuming you

did

that doesn't imply youre town. I think I'm pretty much happy w/ my vote on E_K for now, as nobody else has really pushed my scumdar, but I think I may have to reread day 2 and see if that changes anything.

[kops]

Personally i can't say i'm happy w/ lynching a claimed doc at all. (period for emphasis)

I have still seen little to no reason to change my vote and I'm happy with where it is right now. I'm really not sure what Flay sees scummy about BabyJ, so I would like to hear this from him (apologies if you said this already, but I don't remember). I may change my vote simply to prevent lynching a claimed doc b/c I'd definatley prefer almost any lynch for the moment. Personally I'd much rather lynch the claimed doc later rather than sooner, so if somebody is pushed up to a tie with bamboo, I may consider switching to save bamboo from lynch.

However, like I said, I'm keeping my vote on elvis until I see good reason to change it.

[kops]

hmm, damn an nk tonight... that puts us most likely at 4-3, but quite possibly at 5-2 since this

is

a 10 player game...
We definitely need to be very very careful today b/c there is a strong possibility of being in lylo.

Here are my thoughts:
1) Flay needs to tell us everything he can
2) Top scum list: E_K way ahead.. with tamuz following pretty far behind. I honestly dont have too much of a case on Tamuz, but I have been getting a gut scumminess feeling on him. E_K still throws up my scumdar quite a bit more than tamuz does though. Flay might show up on my 'dar though if he can't provide us with any information, but even then I dont really have much reason to disbelieve him yet. Either way, I think if Flay

is

scum, it would be better to hit him later rather than sooner just in case. As I said yestergameday, I am strongly against lynching claimed power before absolutely necessary.
3) Mass claim? Might not be worth it yet b/c we might not be in lylo, but it may be necessary

No matter what though... NO VOTING until the town is agreed on a lynch

[kops]

whats the point of that? scum mostl likely arent gonna lie about their role names b/c everyone is equally likely to be scum...
although I did just realize.. I

am

getting sceptical about bamboo because if prof. plum isn't doc... then who else makes sense? (granted I don't know any of the characters past the 1st 6 so maybe I'm missing something)

[kops]

D1-dining room
D2... hall...

i'm not going to say anything right now without a consensus from the town, so ask what you want to know and given the situation, i think i'm obliged to divulge

[kops]

Emp.... I'm really not sure at all what youre getting at... can you please explain??
Do you have some kind of information that implies Tamuz is scum.. if so, then why are you beating around the bush? That seems a really odd thing to do on day 3, especially in conjunction w/ a vote (even if there is an unvote right after) while we're in a possible speed lynch and/or lylo situation...
I would also like an explanation from E_K on Flay's quoted section as well cause that confused me (although if I at least somewhat interpreted it, it's not game related, right?)

[kops]

OK... totally missed that, good call emp
Waiting for mod, but as soon as she posts, baring something contraversial, I, too will vote, for now just an

fos tamuz

Dont want to speed lynch yet.

[kops]

I agree w/ bamboo, I'm fine with dropping the hammer but there might still be something we should talk about.
@Tamuz: you might have already answered this question, but did you get a return pm? I mean, you must know or be able to find out where you

really

stayed last night, why haven't you done so??? I think it's that fact that

really

makes you look like scum, and I see no scenario in which you aren't lieing.
Again: I'm fine w/ anyone dropping a hammer, but only once we're sure there is nothing left to discuss.

[kops]

personally, I think both are scum right now.
Tamuz is probably slightly more likely than E_K, since he does seem to have been blatantly lieing about his room choice. I highly, highly doubt that there is no way for him to find out, and I also doubt that he even did send in the conservatory (although that, at least, is slightly less certain). I'd be up for either lynch, but I think Tamuz is definately the higher percentage play today

[kops]

OK, can I lynch?

[kops]

well would you like to share.... ?

Also, i want to hear EmpTyger's explanation that he promised us about his room choices.

Sucks that we lost the doc but I still don't really get how he worked...

Anyway, if Flay is actually telling the truth, then I'm guessing Elvis is whoever he names's scumbuddy, but I don't regard it as particularly likely that he

is

telling the truth considering he hasn't given us any info until now and now that he "has" info he has refrained from giving it to us... anyway, I'll hear what he has to say first.

[kops]

(obviously if he names elvis, than elvis isn't her own scumbuddy... in that case I'm not sure)

[kops]

oh crap, just remembered
I will be unable to post on June 1st or 2nd, and probably not until late on the 3rd

[kops]

Alright, while I still don't really understand the reasoning behind witholding information since the scum know who you saw and can jump on whenever they want whether or not you tell us what you saw but w/e.

Anway, I too was in the library. Hopefully an explanation from Emp is forthcoming.

[kops]

Yes I am back, but before I answer anything, I need Flay to answer this question. Trust me, the purpose will be revealed when it has been answered:
Flay, what did the mod tell you my role was? This question needs to be answered exactly down to the letter. Title followed by color.

[kops]

Alright, sorry 'bout not following up untill now but I had some major internet problems.

So anyway, yes, the purpose of that question was to check how much you really knew, and yes I am

not

Mr. Green, but rather Reverend Green.
Obviously I need to claim now, so here's what I have to say.

I am vanilla. I'm really not sure how Flay know's my color, but I'm guessing that he has an additional scum ability to find out people's colors/role names at night. This is the only possible explanation I can think of because I can't figure out how else he could know my color.
As for his "lassie"-claim, note how he and I shared a room n2 (hall)... If he were telling the truth, why didn't he spot me doing anything then?? I don't know

exactly

how lassies work, never having been one, but wouldn't they spot a scum going out to talk to his partners at night? I can't see how someone who can apparently see people's roles would miss this happening. Clearly if he were really telling the truth, he would have seen me then, instead of claiming to have seen nothing.
In addition to all that, as has already been pointed out by a number of people I believe, he has continually changed his story about his role.. first claiming to be able to tell us something d2, and then not following through, not giving us anything d3

either

and only now, in probable lylo when he is desperate, does he claim to have seen anything.

What I think really happened is that he now knows a number of people's colors, but this is the first time he's been able to use it to his advantage, being able to claim that one townie killed another.

Honestly, I see no other possible situation for what happened, because all I know is that I'm vanilla, and Flay was in the same room as both me and the night kill.

So as such,

fos that would be a vote were we not in a dangerous situation: flay

, at least untill he has a chance to say his piece about what I just said.

[kops]

And what possible game advantage would that have for scum in a game where scum roles appear to be randomized through the color names? It's not all females; all men; all dark colors; it seems to be totally random, so as we've said MANY times in this game, what advantage would there be to lying about your color? Conversely, why would this be a scum ability? It just doesn't make sense, but that's because you're grasping at straws.

Look, I don't know if that's

really

the case, but I honestly can't see any other way for you to possibly know my role name, unless maybe you (or one of your scumbuddies) were given it at the start of the game for some reason, which I realize also doesn't make much sense.
As for how an ability to discern people's colors makes sense on a scum, well look.. we're in lylo and you're about to lynch a townie just because you know his role name... are you telling me this ability (if you have it) wasn't useful???

The cop claim is also extremely convenient with that kind of ability which is another reason that makes me think you have it.
Again, this is just speculation, but I really don't see any other possibilities.

[kops]

vote count:

done

[kops]

whoa... WHOA what????

This is the

second

time you have done this (although it is true that you had scum last time, but still)! Please explain.

[kops]

alright w/e, may as well do this as I think this game is near unlosable so

vote masterchief

Thanks flay!!!

[kops]

bah! wasn't counting on that obviously....
oh well, go scumbuddy! you can do it!

[kops]

I

didn't, and I still think it was a bad choice b/c I don't think anybody else would have even noticed the contradiction... but oh well.

[kops]

damn you're right... I didn't even think about not expecting it because I hadn't even thought about emp claiming vig since I knew it wasn't true... oh well, I suppose that's definately something to remember for next time

[kops]

Flay's fault... I was just doin my job