Mini 291: Clue Mafia.....Game Over!
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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Because every time I've seen someone vote for the Mod or some other joke vote, they're scum. Off the top of my head, I remember LyingBrian voted for the Mod in Peanuts mini mafia. He was a traitor. I don't know if that's technically scum, but it's potential scum, and that's good enough for me.Flay wrote:Why, exactly, does this strike you folks as a reason to vote?
I didn't post my reason originally because it's a very sense-of-smell reason. Then when people stopped talking I figured I should elaborate for discussion's sake. I don't think this necessarily makes Flay scum. I just tend to watch out for people who are too happy on page one. There are D1 antics and then there are D1 scum-happy antics.
Yeah. I also thought your vote on BJ was a cop-out.Flay wrote: I actually expected some flak for turning the tables on BabyJesus' "let's run somebody up a rope ASAP" strategy-
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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I didn't say that was the only time I've ever seen it happen, I said that is one example I remember off the top of my head. I'll go find more examples for you if that's what you want. I don't think it's that hard of a concept to grasp, seeing as more than one person agreed with me.Mr. Flay wrote:
What are they teaching in statistics class these days? One example is sufficient for you to categorize it as "every time"? I'm pleased to have a better target now, soelvis_knits wrote:
Because every time I've seen someone vote for the Mod or some other joke vote, they're scum. Off the top of my head, I remember LyingBrian voted for the Mod in Peanuts mini mafia. He was a traitor. I don't know if that's technically scum, but it's potential scum, and that's good enough for me.Mr. Flay wrote:Why, exactly, does this strike you folks as a reason to vote?Unvote: BabyJesus, Vote: elvis_knits.-
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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Flay, I really don't want to sift through games looking for scum who made joke votes. But to me a joke vote is equal to voting yourself, or voting no-lynch(on D1). To me, it is out of the ordinary. I'm not trying to prove that you are definitely scum from a statistical analysis. I'm just saying that joke voting makes me suspicious.
BTW, why did you vote me when MeMe and I both voted you for the same reason? Did you think I was an easier target?-
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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Not to take the spotlight off of Flay, but I am also suspicious of kops.
Saying the random vote was "truly random" seems like he's trying too hard to let us know that it's random.kops wrote:i take it we just started then? funrandomvote: MeMe... yes that was truly random... okeydokey
(btw i have yet to be in a mafiagame in which i dont make the first post w00t)
Next post TSA votes kops and then kops OMGUS votes TSAGod right after.
It may be just noobism, butIGMEOY kops.-
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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Personally, I don't think we should limit the rooms before we know how the rooms figure into night-kills (except I think avoiding the secret passage rooms IS a good idea). I think there is too much possibility that town planning could end up helping scum while we have no idea what we are planning for. Maybe we can coordinate rooms tomorrow after we have a little more info about how night-kills go down. (For instance if two people die in one room but nowhere else we'll be pretty sure that the mafia have to pick a room and then everyone in that room dies.)
But I do think that avoiding the secret passage rooms is a good idea for now. I could see some sort of double-your-kills scenario resulting if mafia pick those rooms.
Unless I am missing some way that coordinating rooms could be helpful. I like the idea (Flay's I think) of trapping mafia by having everyone's choices recorded -- but I'm not sure how that would work to trap them. Until we know we aren't helping mafia, I don't think it's a good idea to record choices.
I just had a thought. Is it possible that mafia can only go into certain rooms to kill based on a dice roll (like the game) or a number of posts or something? Or am I being too literal about this being a boardgame?-
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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It's a date, Flay. Barring that neither of us are lynched today. I'm willing to look elsewhere for scum to see how this plays out if we both go to the same room (not sure if that's a good idea, but I'm curious).
Also, I am wondering if anyone else will choose the conservatory without telling us. I don't know what the impact will be without knowing how this "room aspect" figures into the night kills. Maybe we should ask that no townies come to the conservatory without telling us. That way we will at least know that if there is anyone else in the room they have to be scum. How does that sound?Talk nerdy to me.
"We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." -Joseph Campbell-
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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I still feel like voting BJ is a cop out. He's playing the way he always plays, and I don't think that lynching him D1 is really that controversial. (Isn't there a joke about he always gets lynched D1, even when he's a mason?) BJ might be scum and he might not, but his play thus far hasn't given anything away to me.
I am thinking about changing my vote to either kops, Tamuz, or bigAl. I already said why I am suspicios of kops. I don't like how Tamuz just followed Flay's vote like a lemming, and I am suspicious of bigAl because last time I saw him as scum he was really noncommital about who he thought was scum until he dropped the hammer on unsuspecting townies. I am getting the same vibe from him now. But I'll go back and pull some quotes before I decide.-
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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I am assuming that "talk" is a joke. But it makes me a bit uneasy too. Flay seems to think something will be proven if we pick the same room... but I don't know what that will be, and I don't know how he thinks he knows what that will be.MeMe wrote:
I don't get this. What do you mean that you and elvis can "talk" tonight? You're obviously not masons or you'd not suspect one another. And scum are people whoMr. Flay wrote:elvis and I can "talk" tonight. Bj doesn't talk at night, he kills.dotalk at night, so if BJ doesn't do that...well...-
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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It could totally work that way, but I don't think it would be smart of scum to broadcast what room they will be in with their victim. I mean, we'll be looking at the other person in the room as the primary suspect. For that matter, even if it doesn't work that way, scum could set it up to look that way by killing only one of me and Flay.MeMe wrote:And now something else I've been pondering: since I agree that it's unlikely that scum will be able to nuke an entire room, I'm starting to wonder if, perhaps, scum has to be in the room with only ONE innocent in order to make a kill (which seems sensible as survivors would probably witness any murder).
Because we don't know how this works and because scum can manipulate us to think it works a certain way, I think we should concentrate on the normal he's-acting-fishy way of detecting scum, rather than trying to figure it out from game dynamics. (I won't discount game dynamics, but let's not rely on them).
I also feel a little cheated to let Flay go because we're trying out his hypothesis about proving he's town. But I am curious to see what will happen. And if he really can prove himself, that would be worth it.
Also, still disconcerted in Flay's and Tamuz's lack of reasoning for voting BJ. Lynching him just because he's BJ isnot helpful.-
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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Does this mean that all the scum are in one group? (AKA only mafia and no SK).Out lovely Mod wrote:There are only two factions in this game: scum and town. If your role PM said you were scum, you win with the scum. If your role PM identified you as anything else, you win with the town.
Just wondering if you'd phrase it this way if there were competing scum groups.
(I'm mostly wondering because Tamuz keeps talking about an SK).-
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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Interesting how Tamuz writes "scum" at every possible interval. Maybe Fruedian, maybe more knowledge that he is scum.Tamuz wrote:* Interesting how elvis points out that there is one killing group, but makes an insinuation to scum having ability to kill two scum. Maybe Fruedian, maybe more knowledge of the killing process.
unvote; vote Tamuz-
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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So we're letting Tamuz off the hook for claiming townie? That's different...
Although I had the same reaction to kops quote that bigAl just quoted:
Seems awfully sure of himself.kops wrote:we need a full claim right now or i'm lynching (although youre good as dead either way at that point)..
I also think TSA's lurking doesn't make him a bad lynch either. But we are getting very close to deadline now and I want to give whoever we want to lynch the chance to claim.Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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Is deadline really passed?
I wish that there had been some more participation here on the day of a deadline. As it stands I *believe Tamuz will be lynched. I am beginning to get a townie feel from him, but I really thought he was scummy before, so I hope my first instincts were right. And even if my vote were to count right now, I can't just off TSa without any discussion or claim from him, so I'm sticking with my vote on Tamuz. If he's telling the truth, it's not too horrible to lynch a townie.Talk nerdy to me.
"We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." -Joseph Campbell-
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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I'm seriously thinking about kops too, but wondering if he's just a n00b. I'd have to go back and read his posts again. Perhaps I should do that now...Fuldu wrote:
By my actual estimation, yes, the deadline has passed. However, since Orbiting's final word on the subject gave us an additional 24 hours, I'm going to assume that we have that time. Personally, I'd prefer to see Tamuz lynched over TSAGod (and kops lynched over Tamuz, but nobody seems to be paying any attention to that).Orbiting wrote:Further deadline information:
Sorry, I didn't realize you could change your times -- I suppose that when I set up my account either you couldn't do that, or I didn't. Fuldu's estimation of 7 p.m. EST on the 23rd is correct.-
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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Looking back, kops doesn't look THAT bad to me. His random on MeMe was really trying to make sure we all understood it was random, which made me suspicious and still does. The thing that makes me think he's not scum is that as I read through his posts they sound like a stream of consciousness, not like an evilly-crafted attempt at manipulation and deception.
Anyway,Fuldu, please tell me why you want kops dead...Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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Tempted to switch vote to TSA or kops...
(kops back in my mind after realizing he has been acting unsure about his votes while at the same time putting confirm votes down on TSA)Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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I'm making a new theory that scum often give themselves away on page 1. It's these small things that they usually wiggle out of by the end of the day.
On page one, kops votes for three people...
1)MeMe - made sure we all knew his random vote was the most randomly random ever.
2)TSA - OMGUS
3)Flay - a joke vote for keeping the Mod in the basement.
That's a lot of vote switching on the first page and no ownership of the votes. Random, OMGUS, and a joke. Not a real reason in the bunch.
I've decided tounvote Tamuz; vote kops-
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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I think you should vote kops then...BabyJesus wrote:
well, duh, I've already said kops is scum...elvis_knits wrote:Looking back, kops doesn't look THAT bad to me. His random on MeMe was really trying to make sure we all understood it was random, which made me suspicious and still does. The thing that makes me think he's not scum is that as I read through his posts they sound like a stream of consciousness, not like an evilly-crafted attempt at manipulation and deception.
Anyway,Fuldu, please tell me why you want kops dead...-
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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By the way, I think you just admitted to being slightly unhappy that the person you are voting for (TSA) is now going to be lynched.Mr. Flay wrote:Well, it IS Day One, but we've all got to go with our guts.
By the way, I think you just saved Tamuz but didn't put actually kops on the block unless someone else changes their vote. TSAGod looks like the leader right now, and I probably won't be back on before the deadline hits (have to go to work offsite in two hours, until well after 7 EST). I'll try and check right before I leave.
But there is still time to change your votes people!Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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True my vote did not have the desired effect of lynching kops, but I thought that there might be other people changing their votes before deadline, although there hasn't been much of that.
It's sad that people have been lurking around the deadline. It has made movement impossible.Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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Just so you all know, I went to the Conservatory, and I did not "talk" with anyone, including Flay.
Wasn't kops going to be away? Maybe that's why there was no kill?Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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are we supposed to wait for this dude?kops wrote:now would also probably be a good time to say this, butI will be out of town for a week starting friday morning (ending next sunday i believe)and while it is likely that i will have internet access, it is not gauranteed. it is also possible that as we are driving, i will be unavailable until we arrive saturday evening, although im sure it will still be night at that point so its probably wont be too big of a deal if thats the case, i will post as soon as i have access but if i dont post for a couple real days after the night ends, i may have to be replaced unless you dont mind me being inactive for that long, ill keep you guys posted, and again i apologize, this trip didnt even cross my mind when i signed up a month ago
sorry all-
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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I also think we should hear from Flay. I think he said he could prove himself.MeMe wrote:Are you suggesting he be replaced?
And I'd like to hear from Flay before we do too much.
I think maybe kops should be replaced. I mean, if we're gonna lynch him no matter what, it doesn't matter. (And I'm thinking about putting my vote back on him). It's just that we lynched TSA yesterday because he wasn't contributing, and he was town. I differ to the Mod, of course. I'll sit around and wait for kops if that's what everyone wants.-
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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Wait a minute...Flay wrote:Of course I don't expect a doc to come out and say they protected me, so my position does look pretty tenuous today.
Flay... if a doc protected you last night, shouldn't you have seen them in the conservatory??
You should KNOW if you were protected last night, or not, I think.-
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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I agree it is very unlike BabyJesus to forget to make a night choice. Also to forget to check in around deadline and help us lynch someone. He just let his vote sit.
vote babyjesusTalk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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Just because I put one vote on you? That seems like scum overreaction to me.BabyJesus wrote:
trying for the easy lynch, huh? pretty sure elvis is scum here.elvis_knits wrote:I agree it is very unlike BabyJesus to forget to make a night choice. Also to forget to check in around deadline and help us lynch someone. He just let his vote sit.
vote babyjesus-
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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Nobody is voting for you, so I'd say you are NOT being run up the flagpole.Bamboomancer wrote:Flay's Last Post wrote:I'm fine with not revealing it, I've already done so so it didn't matter to me.
So am I done being rung up the flagpole for trying NOT to guess the mechanics of the game then?The Post Before That wrote:I still don't quite get Bamboomancer's objection...-
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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Yeah and after you do that, tell me why you think I'm more suspicious than anyone else.BabyJesus wrote:
why do you think I am scum, let's start with that misconception.kops wrote:That's not what I meant... you're misunderstanding me
I said I'd rather lynchyou, who I think is scum, than start an entirely new bandwagon on somebody else, who I don't even find quite as suspicious (Elvis_Knits at this point, although even if that changes, I still find you somewhat more suspicious than anyone else, though not enough to warrant a vote yet)
I think the only thing anyone has talked about is Flay saying he thinks BJ and I are scum because BJ wouldn't OMGUS vote me -- which sort of sucks for me because it's a reason based on what someone else did that I have no control over. There's no way to defend or explain that.-
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For what it's worth, I also have a funny feeling about MeMe.
This may not be fair or correct, but I have the feeling she's doing just enough to look like she's trying to help. Yesterday she wanted to lynch TSA for lurking. Easy target for mafia. Today she favors a bamboomancer lynch because:
Reasoning is similar to lurker reasoning to me.MeMe wrote:Yesterday he had two nothing posts and today all of his posts have been one-note.
She did use more substantial reasing to attack Flay twice, and backed off both times. If I have time today, I'll post why her second attack on Flay seemed weird to me. I know part of the reason is because she backed down.
I don't know if this helps at all, but I'm trying.-
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Your reason for thinking I am mafia because I voted BJ and he didn't vote me back right away is not the best reason.Mr. Flay wrote:At this point I could get behind an elvis, bamboo, BJ, or kops lynch, roughly in that order. There's not enough new information to really change my opinion...we're spinning our wheels here. Not good on D2.
How is it that I am at the top of the list, but BJ is third?-
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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MeMe, this is your post where you vote for Flay, broken up with my comments:
I agree that I expected more from Flay today too, but I don't think what he has said today is inconsistent from his claim yesterday. He said he could provide information about the room. The catch is that someone in the room has to do something, so it is possible that he wouldn't see anything. (I'm still not totally sure about the claim, but I don't think what he has said really conflicts with his claim).MeMe wrote:Yesterday's claim...
...is rather different that what you've supplied today. Also, you seem to contradict yourself here...Mr. Flay wrote:If I live, I can provide quite a bit of information about that room, enough to clear me, I believe.
(bolding mine)MeMe wrote:Mr. Flay wrote: I see actions done by others in the room. Therefore if elvis had any night actions (or anyone else who bothered to come here early), I'd have seen what she did, and been able to back her up.
You say you see actions -- but then question why you wouldn't have simply seen bigAl (who didn't claim an action even if he HAD been in the room, right?).Mr. Flay wrote:bigAl, are you saying you moved between two rooms at night? I wonder why I didn't see you come in...
It was my assumption that you were claiming to be able to find out elvis's role or alignment at thevery least. If I'm to believe your claim, I also have to believe that you deliberately limited your "quite a bit of information" byasking for a private audience with elvis(with belated request for Tamuz to join -- saying that "even a vanilla townie can be proven, at times..." another hint that your role doesn't do what you claim it does) -- but since you made your intention to gather information clear, if she's scum it seems plain that she'd probably have skipped her action...which you should have foreseen rather than declaring that you'd likely be able to get enough info to clear yourself.
He never asked for a private audience with me. He asked that one or more of his attackers would come to the room with him. I volunteered.
I don't know if you are trying to twist his words or just remembered incorrectly.
"Our kill" could easily refer to "the game's" kill. I mean, sure, maybe Flay totally slipped up and wrote our kill meaning the-mafia-which-I-am-a-part-of's kill. But this allegation seems forced to me.MeMe wrote: I'm also confused by the "anyone else who bothered to come here early" phrase. What does that mean?
And this I know is nitpicky, but once suspicions are raised, I look closely...Mr. Flay wrote:My instinct says our kill was blocked last night.Ourkill?
Am I missing something obvious? If so, please explain. Until you do...
vote: Mr. Flay-
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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I feel like all I've done is argue with MeMe today (we're in another game together). I don't really want to do a pbpa anymore.MeMe wrote:elvis -- all of this has already been covered by Mr. Flay and me (#206/208). Do you somehow find my responses to Flay's explanation to be "weird"? BecauseIfind it weird that you've ignored my clarifications (specifically where I got "private audience" from -- post #60, as stated in #208) and instead have decided to call term it a possible "twist" rather than accepting it as a misunderstanding.
I also find it odd that you claim to haveassumedthat there was no conflict, when I think I showed quite well why I thought there was. He said he thought he'd be able to clear himself with what he found out overnight...this morning, he couldn't do it. Certainly looked inconsistent to me -- and I'm not the only one who 1) saw inconsistencies between what Flay said yesterday and what he's said today (bigAl - 207, Fuldu - 213, you - 216) and, for that matter, I'm not the only one who backed off of him after an explanation was offered... (see posts 216 and 221). True, I actually placed my vote where my suspicions were and you didn't...but hey. Doesn't change the fact that you said you "thought you found something" against him and dropped it once it was explained --just like me(of course, in your case, you accused him over something he'd already explained -- which is kind of weird, considering the fact that you claimed to buy everything he'd said. One would think you'd have actually have to havereadwhat he'd said before claiming to believe it).
That said,I'mnot sure of Flay's claim, either -- what Idoknow is that my objection to his claim fell apart after he explained. You needn't revisit how my case doesn't hold up as I've already admitted as much. What you probablydoneed to explain is why, if you truly thought my vote post was suspicious, it took you almost two weeks to say anything about it.
unvote: Bamboomancer
vote: elvis_knits
I will say though, that just because you took back your vote on him, does not erase your arguments that I find suspect. You can clarify all you want, the original action still stands.
Also, about it taking two weeks to say, I wanted Flay to answer the accusations himself before I commented. Of course, I still could have made my comments way earlier, but I don't see how that makes them any less valid.-
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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I feel like all I've done is argue with MeMe today (we're in another game together). I don't really want to do a pbpa anymore.MeMe wrote:elvis -- all of this has already been covered by Mr. Flay and me (#206/208). Do you somehow find my responses to Flay's explanation to be "weird"? BecauseIfind it weird that you've ignored my clarifications (specifically where I got "private audience" from -- post #60, as stated in #208) and instead have decided to call term it a possible "twist" rather than accepting it as a misunderstanding.
I also find it odd that you claim to haveassumedthat there was no conflict, when I think I showed quite well why I thought there was. He said he thought he'd be able to clear himself with what he found out overnight...this morning, he couldn't do it. Certainly looked inconsistent to me -- and I'm not the only one who 1) saw inconsistencies between what Flay said yesterday and what he's said today (bigAl - 207, Fuldu - 213, you - 216) and, for that matter, I'm not the only one who backed off of him after an explanation was offered... (see posts 216 and 221). True, I actually placed my vote where my suspicions were and you didn't...but hey. Doesn't change the fact that you said you "thought you found something" against him and dropped it once it was explained --just like me(of course, in your case, you accused him over something he'd already explained -- which is kind of weird, considering the fact that you claimed to buy everything he'd said. One would think you'd have actually have to havereadwhat he'd said before claiming to believe it).
That said,I'mnot sure of Flay's claim, either -- what Idoknow is that my objection to his claim fell apart after he explained. You needn't revisit how my case doesn't hold up as I've already admitted as much. What you probablydoneed to explain is why, if you truly thought my vote post was suspicious, it took you almost two weeks to say anything about it.
unvote: Bamboomancer
vote: elvis_knits
I will say though, that just because you took back your vote on him, does not erase your arguments that I find suspect. You can clarify all you want, the original action still stands.
Also, about it taking two weeks to say, I wanted Flay to answer the accusations himself before I commented. Of course, I still could have made my comments way earlier, but I don't see how that makes them any less valid.-
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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Sorry about that double post up there... and here's a third (this time with different content... yay!)
I notice you have gone from thinking there is not much of a case against me, to voting me after I voiced my suspicions about you.MeMe wrote:vote: Bamboomancer
Despite the fact that I agree that revealing last night's room choices seems unhelpful at this point -- I see more of a case against him than against either BJ or e_k. Yesterday he had two nothing posts and today all of his posts have been one-note.-
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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